| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Sphere" |
| Date: |
19 Oct 2006 07:59:16 PM |
| Object: |
Is God a Liar? |
An entity arises from the actions of people
who adhere to this idea of God, and for
that matter from the actions of people who
claim this God does not exist. This entity
is just as real as any nation. Furthermore
this entity has very real effects upon me,
and may very well kill me in the near future
through involvement in a global war.
Is it more rational for me to accept the claims
of the adherents and naysayers that God
is omnipotent and omniscient and thereby
ignore this unnamed entity who has very
real effects upon my life, or to take this
entity as God and as a liar who is neither
omnipotent nor omniscient?
---
No essence. No permanence. No perfection.
.
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| User: "Greywolf" |
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| Title: Re: Is God a Liar? |
19 Oct 2006 10:09:03 PM |
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"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1161305956.337938.67720@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
An entity arises from the actions of people
who adhere to this idea of God,
We are certainly talking about a make-believe 'God' here. As no theist has
been able to provide evidence for the existence of this (imaginary)
creature. Now how is it that those who insist that a 'God' exists cannot
provide proof of this. How is it that this 'entity' remains undetectable to
everyone -- including the theists (or else said theists would be able to
reveal *exactly* how this entity reveals itself to *them*)? What is the
problem?
and for
that matter from the actions of people who
claim this God does not exist.
Well those who maintain that he does could quickly shut the mouths of the
'un-believers' with some actual proof for their claim, couldn't they? What's
the matter? Is 'God' too good at pretending to be non-existent? Or is he, in
fact, just that?
This entity
is just as real as any nation.
So why not quit talking like an irrational, pseudo-intellectual and back up
your claim?
Furthermore
this entity has very real effects upon me,
and may very well kill me in the near future
through involvement in a global war.
Okay. That's it! You're cut off. Bar's closed for you, pal! Take one last
swig of your Jesus juice and hit the road. You're showing your irrationality
in a very, very BIG way. You're embarrassing yourself now. Go ahead and take
the little Jesus lady with you. Just don't have kids.
Greywolf
<snip>
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Is God a Liar? |
20 Oct 2006 10:00:11 AM |
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Greywolf <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Sphere <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in message
An entity arises from the actions of people
who adhere to this idea of God,
We are certainly talking about a make-believe 'God' here. As no theist
has been able to provide evidence for the existence of this (imaginary)
creature. Now how is it that those who insist that a 'God' exists cannot
provide proof of this. How is it that this 'entity' remains undetectable to
everyone -- including the theists (or else said theists would be able to
reveal *exactly* how this entity reveals itself to *them*)? What is the
problem?
The problem is that you're spiritually lost! Repent now, and be
saved!
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.
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| User: "Greywolf" |
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| Title: Re: Is God a Liar? |
20 Oct 2006 10:17:04 AM |
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"Elroy Willis" <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:0vohj29pm2snv1dne78f6nkg12p7aut2hm@4ax.com...
Greywolf <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Sphere <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in message
An entity arises from the actions of people
who adhere to this idea of God,
We are certainly talking about a make-believe 'God' here. As no theist
has been able to provide evidence for the existence of this (imaginary)
creature. Now how is it that those who insist that a 'God' exists cannot
provide proof of this. How is it that this 'entity' remains undetectable
to
everyone -- including the theists (or else said theists would be able to
reveal *exactly* how this entity reveals itself to *them*)? What is the
problem?
The problem is that you're spiritually lost! Repent now, and be
saved!
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
Well mighty nice of you to view my dissertation. But I noticed you didn't
add a single meaningful thing to the discussion. How about addressing some
of the issues I raised instead of insisting I get myself brainwashed. How
about providing some answers instead of asserting some ca-ca. How about
explaining why you Jesus people can't produce any meaningful evidence for
the existence of your 'God'. What's the matter? Can't find any?
Greywolf
.
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| User: "Bill M" |
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| Title: Re: Is God a Liar? |
20 Oct 2006 06:26:48 PM |
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Christians typically avoid logical discourse but instead engage in dodging
and weaving. They do this because they have NO EVIDENCE to support their
irrational god beliefs.
"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:12jhq3o6f8m8se0@corp.supernews.com...
"Elroy Willis" <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:0vohj29pm2snv1dne78f6nkg12p7aut2hm@4ax.com...
Greywolf <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Sphere <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in message
An entity arises from the actions of people
who adhere to this idea of God,
We are certainly talking about a make-believe 'God' here. As no theist
has been able to provide evidence for the existence of this (imaginary)
creature. Now how is it that those who insist that a 'God' exists cannot
provide proof of this. How is it that this 'entity' remains undetectable
to
everyone -- including the theists (or else said theists would be able to
reveal *exactly* how this entity reveals itself to *them*)? What is the
problem?
The problem is that you're spiritually lost! Repent now, and be
saved!
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
Well mighty nice of you to view my dissertation. But I noticed you didn't
add a single meaningful thing to the discussion. How about addressing some
of the issues I raised instead of insisting I get myself brainwashed. How
about providing some answers instead of asserting some ca-ca. How about
explaining why you Jesus people can't produce any meaningful evidence for
the existence of your 'God'. What's the matter? Can't find any?
Greywolf
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Is God a Liar? |
21 Oct 2006 07:06:58 AM |
|
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Greywolf <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
Greywolf <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Sphere <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in message
An entity arises from the actions of people
who adhere to this idea of God,
We are certainly talking about a make-believe 'God' here. As no theist
has been able to provide evidence for the existence of this (imaginary)
creature. Now how is it that those who insist that a 'God' exists cannot
provide proof of this. How is it that this 'entity' remains undetectable
to everyone -- including the theists (or else said theists would be able to
reveal *exactly* how this entity reveals itself to *them*)? What is the
problem?
The problem is that you're spiritually lost! Repent now, and be
saved!
Well mighty nice of you to view my dissertation. But I noticed you didn't
add a single meaningful thing to the discussion. How about addressing some
of the issues I raised instead of insisting I get myself brainwashed.
Quit putting up a fight. Just get down on your knees right now, and
repent! You can do it!
How about providing some answers instead of asserting some ca-ca.
How about explaining why you Jesus people can't produce any meaningful
evidence for the existence of your 'God'. What's the matter? Can't find any?
The evidence is everywhere, just open your eyes and your heart!
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Is God a Liar? |
21 Oct 2006 07:42:40 AM |
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On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 12:06:58 GMT, Elroy Willis
<elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
Greywolf <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
Greywolf <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Sphere <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in message
An entity arises from the actions of people
who adhere to this idea of God,
We are certainly talking about a make-believe 'God' here. As no theist
has been able to provide evidence for the existence of this (imaginary)
creature. Now how is it that those who insist that a 'God' exists cannot
provide proof of this. How is it that this 'entity' remains undetectable
to everyone -- including the theists (or else said theists would be able to
reveal *exactly* how this entity reveals itself to *them*)? What is the
problem?
The problem is that you're spiritually lost! Repent now, and be
saved!
Well mighty nice of you to view my dissertation. But I noticed you didn't
add a single meaningful thing to the discussion. How about addressing some
of the issues I raised instead of insisting I get myself brainwashed.
Quit putting up a fight.
Fight, what fight?
Just get down on your knees right now, and repent! You can do it!
Just on your say so?
Repent of what?
How about providing some answers instead of asserting some ca-ca.
How about explaining why you Jesus people can't produce any meaningful
evidence for the existence of your 'God'. What's the matter? Can't find any?
The evidence is everywhere, just open your eyes and your heart!
My eyes are wide open and hopefully my heart is sealed and busy
pumping blood.
You make the fundamental error of arguing that everything was
created by a god and is therefore evidence it exists. It is a
circular argument with no merit.
The evidence you need to provide is the necessary link between
eveything that is and the god. You have to show it created everything
before you can regard everything as evidence of its existence.
You know you cannot do this and I know you cannot.
When I look around I see the universe but no evidence it was
created and therefore no evidence of a god.
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Is God a Liar? |
21 Oct 2006 08:10:49 AM |
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Les Hellawell wrote in alt.atheism
<elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
Greywolf <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
Greywolf <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Sphere <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in message
An entity arises from the actions of people
who adhere to this idea of God,
We are certainly talking about a make-believe 'God' here. As no theist
has been able to provide evidence for the existence of this (imaginary)
creature. Now how is it that those who insist that a 'God' exists cannot
provide proof of this. How is it that this 'entity' remains undetectable
to everyone -- including the theists (or else said theists would be able to
reveal *exactly* how this entity reveals itself to *them*)? What is the
problem?
The problem is that you're spiritually lost! Repent now, and be
saved!
Well mighty nice of you to view my dissertation. But I noticed you didn't
add a single meaningful thing to the discussion. How about addressing some
of the issues I raised instead of insisting I get myself brainwashed.
Quit putting up a fight.
Fight, what fight?
The bad fight. He needs to stop the bad fight and put up the good
fight.
Just get down on your knees right now, and repent! You can do it!
Just on your say so?
Of course. Being an enlightened one myself, he should listen to me
without question. He'll be glad for it!
Repent of what?
Everything bad he's ever done. All the lies he's told. All the lust
he's had in his heart. All the people he's screwed over, and on and
on. You get the picture...
How about providing some answers instead of asserting some ca-ca.
How about explaining why you Jesus people can't produce any meaningful
evidence for the existence of your 'God'. What's the matter? Can't find any?
The evidence is everywhere, just open your eyes and your heart!
My eyes are wide open and hopefully my heart is sealed and busy
pumping blood.
Your spiritual heart isn't open.
<tap tap>
Hear that? Just an empty echo. Nothing there. You're as spiritually
dead as Greywolf. You poor things!
You make the fundamental error of arguing that everything was
created by a god and is therefore evidence it exists. It is a
circular argument with no merit.
Circles are the perfect form. No beginning, no end, just like God.
The evidence you need to provide is the necessary link between
eveything that is and the god. You have to show it created everything
before you can regard everything as evidence of its existence.
Don't be afraid, just get down on your knees. You can do it!
You know you cannot do this and I know you cannot.
You're afraid to prostrate yourself to the Almighty, that's your
problem. When's the last time you did it?
When I look around I see the universe but no evidence it was
created and therefore no evidence of a god.
Then you need to look harder, obviously, maybe you'll see it
if you ever get down on your knees!
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Is God a Liar? |
21 Oct 2006 09:54:16 AM |
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On Sat, 21 Oct 2006 13:10:49 GMT, Elroy Willis
<elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
Les Hellawell wrote in alt.atheism
<elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
Greywolf <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
Greywolf <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Sphere <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in message
An entity arises from the actions of people
who adhere to this idea of God,
We are certainly talking about a make-believe 'God' here. As no theist
has been able to provide evidence for the existence of this (imaginary)
creature. Now how is it that those who insist that a 'God' exists cannot
provide proof of this. How is it that this 'entity' remains undetectable
to everyone -- including the theists (or else said theists would be able to
reveal *exactly* how this entity reveals itself to *them*)? What is the
problem?
The problem is that you're spiritually lost! Repent now, and be
saved!
Well mighty nice of you to view my dissertation. But I noticed you didn't
add a single meaningful thing to the discussion. How about addressing some
of the issues I raised instead of insisting I get myself brainwashed.
Quit putting up a fight.
Fight, what fight?
The bad fight. He needs to stop the bad fight and put up the good
fight.
Just get down on your knees right now, and repent! You can do it!
Just on your say so?
Of course. Being an enlightened one myself, he should listen to me
without question. He'll be glad for it!
Repent of what?
Everything bad he's ever done. All the lies he's told. All the lust
he's had in his heart. All the people he's screwed over, and on and
on. You get the picture...
How about providing some answers instead of asserting some ca-ca.
How about explaining why you Jesus people can't produce any meaningful
evidence for the existence of your 'God'. What's the matter? Can't find any?
The evidence is everywhere, just open your eyes and your heart!
My eyes are wide open and hopefully my heart is sealed and busy
pumping blood.
Your spiritual heart isn't open.
<tap tap>
Hear that? Just an empty echo. Nothing there. You're as spiritually
dead as Greywolf. You poor things!
You make the fundamental error of arguing that everything was
created by a god and is therefore evidence it exists. It is a
circular argument with no merit.
Circles are the perfect form. No beginning, no end, just like God.
and lead nowhere. And my main point? As you choose not
to see it I repeat it below sans the distraction.
The evidence you need to provide is the necessary link between
eveything that is and the god. You have to show it created everything
before you can regard everything as evidence of its existence.
Don't be afraid, just get down on your knees. You can do it!
Afraid of what?
In any case going down on my knees is not the problem. At my
age it is the getting up again thats the problem so I need a
good reason so to do.
You know you cannot do this and I know you cannot.
You're afraid to prostrate yourself to the Almighty, that's your
problem. When's the last time you did it?
Fright has nothing to do with it, please do not try to pretend
otherwise. The reason is that I have no reason whatsover
to believe there is such a things as "The Almighty" or, even
if it did exist a need to fawn and beg its indulgence as if
it was some vain and egoistical being created in our image.
When I look around I see the universe but no evidence it was
created and therefore no evidence of a god.
Then you need to look harder, obviously, maybe you'll see it
if you ever get down on your knees!
Why should I? You are the one demanding I worship this
whatever god the onus is on you to show it exists and is
not just an invention
You make the fundamental error of arguing that everything was
created by a god and is therefore evidence it exists
The evidence you need to provide to justify your demand is the
necessary link between eveything that is and the god. You have
to show it created everything before you can regard everything
as evidence of its existence.
Ignore this again and I will assume you are just watring my
time. The only thing that can justify my accepting what you
say is clear evidence that this god created everything and
than it is vain enough to demand worship.
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Is God a Liar? |
22 Oct 2006 09:38:37 AM |
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Les Hellawell wrote in alt.atheism
<elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
Les Hellawell wrote in alt.atheism
When I look around I see the universe but no evidence it was
created and therefore no evidence of a god.
Then you need to look harder, obviously, maybe you'll see it
if you ever get down on your knees!
Why should I? You are the one demanding I worship this
whatever god the onus is on you to show it exists and is
not just an invention
You make the fundamental error of arguing that everything was
created by a god and is therefore evidence it exists
The evidence you need to provide to justify your demand is the
necessary link between eveything that is and the god. You have
to show it created everything before you can regard everything
as evidence of its existence.
Ignore this again and I will assume you are just watring my
time. The only thing that can justify my accepting what you
say is clear evidence that this god created everything and
than it is vain enough to demand worship.
You've been PUNK'd, sorry. :)
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Is God a Liar? |
22 Oct 2006 09:56:41 AM |
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On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 14:38:37 GMT, Elroy Willis
<elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
Les Hellawell wrote in alt.atheism
<elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
Les Hellawell wrote in alt.atheism
When I look around I see the universe but no evidence it was
created and therefore no evidence of a god.
Then you need to look harder, obviously, maybe you'll see it
if you ever get down on your knees!
Why should I? You are the one demanding I worship this
whatever god the onus is on you to show it exists and is
not just an invention
You make the fundamental error of arguing that everything was
created by a god and is therefore evidence it exists
The evidence you need to provide to justify your demand is the
necessary link between eveything that is and the god. You have
to show it created everything before you can regard everything
as evidence of its existence.
Ignore this again and I will assume you are just watring my
time. The only thing that can justify my accepting what you
say is clear evidence that this god created everything and
than it is vain enough to demand worship.
You've been PUNK'd, sorry. :)
PUNK'd? Sorry not familiar with the term.
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Is God a Liar? |
22 Oct 2006 10:19:36 AM |
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Les Hellawell wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
Les Hellawell wrote in alt.atheism
<elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
Les Hellawell wrote in alt.atheism
When I look around I see the universe but no evidence it was
created and therefore no evidence of a god.
Then you need to look harder, obviously, maybe you'll see it
if you ever get down on your knees!
Why should I? You are the one demanding I worship this
whatever god the onus is on you to show it exists and is
not just an invention
You make the fundamental error of arguing that everything was
created by a god and is therefore evidence it exists
The evidence you need to provide to justify your demand is the
necessary link between eveything that is and the god. You have
to show it created everything before you can regard everything
as evidence of its existence.
Ignore this again and I will assume you are just watring my
time. The only thing that can justify my accepting what you
say is clear evidence that this god created everything and
than it is vain enough to demand worship.
You've been PUNK'd, sorry. :)
PUNK'd? Sorry not familiar with the term.
It's a TV show where people get tricked on camera. You obviously
thought I was a theist, so I played along for a few posts, brushing up
on my theist-speak, so I can do better next time. :)
How'd I do? Did you like the "circles are perfect" argument?
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Is God a Liar? |
22 Oct 2006 01:39:07 PM |
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On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 15:19:36 GMT, Elroy Willis
<elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
Les Hellawell wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
Les Hellawell wrote in alt.atheism
<elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
Les Hellawell wrote in alt.atheism
When I look around I see the universe but no evidence it was
created and therefore no evidence of a god.
Then you need to look harder, obviously, maybe you'll see it
if you ever get down on your knees!
Why should I? You are the one demanding I worship this
whatever god the onus is on you to show it exists and is
not just an invention
You make the fundamental error of arguing that everything was
created by a god and is therefore evidence it exists
The evidence you need to provide to justify your demand is the
necessary link between eveything that is and the god. You have
to show it created everything before you can regard everything
as evidence of its existence.
Ignore this again and I will assume you are just watring my
time. The only thing that can justify my accepting what you
say is clear evidence that this god created everything and
than it is vain enough to demand worship.
You've been PUNK'd, sorry. :)
PUNK'd? Sorry not familiar with the term.
It's a TV show where people get tricked on camera. You obviously
thought I was a theist, so I played along for a few posts, brushing up
on my theist-speak, so I can do better next time. :)
I see.
I was beginning to suspect. I was right though, you was wasting
my time :-)
How'd I do? Did you like the "circles are perfect" argument?
It was a good dodge of the question so you had a theist perfectly.
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Is God a Liar? |
22 Oct 2006 01:48:36 PM |
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On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 19:39:07 +0100, Les Hellawell
<myrubbishbin@notatleswell.freeuk.net> wrote:
On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 15:19:36 GMT, Elroy Willis
<elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
Les Hellawell wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
Les Hellawell wrote in alt.atheism
<elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
Les Hellawell wrote in alt.atheism
When I look around I see the universe but no evidence it was
created and therefore no evidence of a god.
Then you need to look harder, obviously, maybe you'll see it
if you ever get down on your knees!
Why should I? You are the one demanding I worship this
whatever god the onus is on you to show it exists and is
not just an invention
You make the fundamental error of arguing that everything was
created by a god and is therefore evidence it exists
The evidence you need to provide to justify your demand is the
necessary link between eveything that is and the god. You have
to show it created everything before you can regard everything
as evidence of its existence.
Ignore this again and I will assume you are just watring my
time. The only thing that can justify my accepting what you
say is clear evidence that this god created everything and
than it is vain enough to demand worship.
You've been PUNK'd, sorry. :)
PUNK'd? Sorry not familiar with the term.
It's a TV show where people get tricked on camera. You obviously
thought I was a theist, so I played along for a few posts, brushing up
on my theist-speak, so I can do better next time. :)
I see.
I was beginning to suspect. I was right though, you was wasting
my time :-)
How'd I do? Did you like the "circles are perfect" argument?
It was a good dodge of the question so you had a theist perfectly.
They don't seem to grasp that nobody would even ask the questions if
they had the sense to keep it to themselves.
And they don't seem to grasp that their rationalisations. copouts etc
are never going to be a satisfactory answer to the questions they beg.
"I've got a famous red suspension bridge in San Francisco to sell you"
"Prove it's yours to sell" (in other words "shut up when you can't put
up")
"Prove it isn't"
This is exactly what they do. And they pretend they can't understand
why they're being dishonest.
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: Is God a Liar? |
19 Oct 2006 08:32:00 PM |
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"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in news:1161305956.337938.67720
@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
An entity arises from the actions of people
who adhere to this idea of God, and for
that matter from the actions of people who
claim this God does not exist. This entity
is just as real as any nation. Furthermore
this entity has very real effects upon me,
and may very well kill me in the near future
through involvement in a global war.
Is it more rational for me to accept the claims
of the adherents and naysayers that God
is omnipotent and omniscient and thereby
ignore this unnamed entity who has very
real effects upon my life, or to take this
entity as God and as a liar who is neither
omnipotent nor omniscient?
---
No essence. No permanence. No perfection.
Or maybe you should realize that gods are imaginary and say whatever
their creators want them to say.
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
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| User: "Sphere" |
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| Title: Re: Is God a Liar? |
19 Oct 2006 08:39:54 PM |
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Woden wrote:
"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in news:1161305956.337938.67720
@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
An entity arises from the actions of people
who adhere to this idea of God, and for
that matter from the actions of people who
claim this God does not exist. This entity
is just as real as any nation. Furthermore
this entity has very real effects upon me,
and may very well kill me in the near future
through involvement in a global war.
Is it more rational for me to accept the claims
of the adherents and naysayers that God
is omnipotent and omniscient and thereby
ignore this unnamed entity who has very
real effects upon my life, or to take this
entity as God and as a liar who is neither
omnipotent nor omniscient?
---
No essence. No permanence. No perfection.
Or maybe you should realize that gods are imaginary and say whatever
their creators want them to say.
???
Did I say something which contradicts
your statement? Perhaps it is that
you think it is only a one-way street.
Once the creators make them other
people follow and make them say
more, and what they say gets taken
up by still more people who carry
the sick meme from one person to
the next.
We have different opinions about
the effects of imaginary beings...
---
No essence. No permanence. No perfection.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Is God a Liar? |
20 Oct 2006 09:29:52 AM |
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On 19 Oct 2006 18:39:54 -0700, "Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote:
Woden wrote:
"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote in news:1161305956.337938.67720
@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
An entity arises from the actions of people
who adhere to this idea of God, and for
that matter from the actions of people who
claim this God does not exist. This entity
is just as real as any nation. Furthermore
this entity has very real effects upon me,
and may very well kill me in the near future
through involvement in a global war.
Is it more rational for me to accept the claims
of the adherents and naysayers that God
is omnipotent and omniscient and thereby
ignore this unnamed entity who has very
real effects upon my life, or to take this
entity as God and as a liar who is neither
omnipotent nor omniscient?
---
No essence. No permanence. No perfection.
Or maybe you should realize that gods are imaginary and say whatever
their creators want them to say.
???
Did I say something which contradicts
your statement?
Hard to tell. I found your post confusing and it was
difficult to decide what you were actually saying.
We have different opinions about
the effects of imaginary beings...
Imaginary beings do nothing. It is the belief there are imaginary
beings that you are talking about and the actions taken (or
not taken) based on that belief.
---
No essence. No permanence. No perfection.
Only perfect or Divine gods. Perfect because they did nothing
promise nothing and are thus responsible for nothing. A god
that is not a god and may as well not exist.
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
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| User: "J Forbes" |
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| Title: Re: Is God a Liar? |
19 Oct 2006 09:41:08 PM |
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Sphere wrote:
We have different opinions about
the effects of imaginary beings...
the imaginary beings have no effects.
the people who imagine them, do have effects.
God is not a liar. People are liars.
Jim
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Is God a Liar? |
20 Oct 2006 08:27:29 AM |
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J Forbes <jforbspam@fastmail.fm> wrote in alt.atheism
Sphere wrote:
We have different opinions about
the effects of imaginary beings...
the imaginary beings have no effects.
the people who imagine them, do have effects.
God is not a liar. People are liars.
Well said.
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "NC" |
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| Title: Re: Is God a Liar? |
19 Oct 2006 11:20:26 PM |
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"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote:
An entity arises from the actions of people
who adhere to this idea of God, and for
that matter from the actions of people who
claim this God does not exist. This entity
is just as real as any nation. Furthermore
this entity has very real effects upon me,
and may very well kill me in the near future
through involvement in a global war.
Is it more rational for me to accept the claims
of the adherents and naysayers that God
is omnipotent and omniscient and thereby
ignore this unnamed entity who has very
real effects upon my life, or to take this
entity as God and as a liar who is neither
omnipotent nor omniscient?
This delimma disappears when you cease conflating two things as if they
are one; In this case, the object of belief and the effects of belief.
Allow me to back up and walk through it to be sure I have correctly
interpreted your premises.
1. Some people believe there is a being named God. Some people don't but
still know of the beliefs.
2. This causes very real effects, by the
influence they have on peoples' (both believer and non-believer)
real-world actions.
3. You refer collectively to this network of belief-related effects as
an "unnamed entity".
Although "entity" may a confusing term, I'll go with it for now. I don't
see any delimma here at all, because to me your entity is clearly not
the imaginary being named God. Not even close. Just keep them seperated
and be happy. For some reason you see this delimma...
4. If you "accept that God is omnipotent/omniscient" you must ignore the
entity.
Did you drop the "idea of" prefix? I have no problem accepting that the
IMAGINARY being God is IMAGINED to be omnipotent etc. Like any fictional
character, it can be given whatever attributes people want to imagine. I
am still free to consider your entity (which is not God) as something
real.
5. If you decide to call the entity "God" then it is a "liar" because it
isn't omnipotent etc.
It isn't claiming to be omnipotent. That's the other God, remember? The
"entity" is still a collective of human actions and effects. Changing
the name doesn't make it responsible for explaining the attributes of
the other. What if you call it "Zeus" (The other Zeus isn't claimed to
be omnipotent)? What if you call it "chocolate" but it doesn't taste
like the other thing called chocolate? No, I would definately advise
against recycling words. Invent a new word if need be.:)
NC
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Is God a Liar? |
20 Oct 2006 09:54:11 AM |
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On 20 Oct 2006 04:20:26 GMT, NC <nc@noxozoxo.tk> wrote:
"Sphere" <sphere1952@gmail.com> wrote:
An entity arises from the actions of people
who adhere to this idea of God, and for
that matter from the actions of people who
claim this God does not exist. This entity
is just as real as any nation. Furthermore
this entity has very real effects upon me,
and may very well kill me in the near future
through involvement in a global war.
Is it more rational for me to accept the claims
of the adherents and naysayers that God
is omnipotent and omniscient and thereby
ignore this unnamed entity who has very
real effects upon my life, or to take this
entity as God and as a liar who is neither
omnipotent nor omniscient?
This delimma disappears when you cease conflating two things as if they
are one; In this case, the object of belief and the effects of belief.
Allow me to back up and walk through it to be sure I have correctly
interpreted your premises.
1. Some people believe there is a being named God. Some people don't but
still know of the beliefs.
2. This causes very real effects, by the
influence they have on peoples' (both believer and non-believer)
real-world actions.
3. You refer collectively to this network of belief-related effects as
an "unnamed entity".
Although "entity" may a confusing term, I'll go with it for now. I don't
see any delimma here at all, because to me your entity is clearly not
the imaginary being named God. Not even close. Just keep them seperated
and be happy. For some reason you see this delimma...
4. If you "accept that God is omnipotent/omniscient" you must ignore the
entity.
Did you drop the "idea of" prefix? I have no problem accepting that the
IMAGINARY being God is IMAGINED to be omnipotent etc. Like any fictional
character, it can be given whatever attributes people want to imagine. I
am still free to consider your entity (which is not God) as something
real.
5. If you decide to call the entity "God" then it is a "liar" because it
isn't omnipotent etc.
It isn't claiming to be omnipotent. That's the other God, remember? The
"entity" is still a collective of human actions and effects. Changing
the name doesn't make it responsible for explaining the attributes of
the other. What if you call it "Zeus" (The other Zeus isn't claimed to
be omnipotent)? What if you call it "chocolate" but it doesn't taste
like the other thing called chocolate? No, I would definately advise
against recycling words. Invent a new word if need be.:)
Theist seem unable to distinquish between our talking about the god
and our talking about the belief there is a god. Though some do
help them by talking about the god as if it exists. That approach
never works as they just see it as implying the writer really does
believe but is somehow angry or hates the god or has not read the
Bible and 'interpreted' it properly. You need to be brainwas... sorry
'trained' to interpret the Bible/Koran/Divine word/whatever correctly
we are told.
Thus if we poke fun at the obvious inconsistencies of the belief
we are perceived at poking fun at ,and thus being disrespectful
to, the thing believed which we are not. How can we be
disrespectful to something we do not believe exists? They
just don't get it.
This is why I consider it important to make it clear that we
are talking about the belief and only the belief and not the
thing believed as we do not believe there is a god to talk
about.
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Is God a Liar? |
20 Oct 2006 10:01:46 AM |
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On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 17:59:16 -0700, Sphere wrote:
An entity arises from the actions of people
who adhere to this idea of God, and for
that matter from the actions of people who
claim this God does not exist. This entity
is just as real as any nation. Furthermore
this entity has very real effects upon me,
and may very well kill me in the near future
through involvement in a global war.
No, the human beings who believe in invisible pixies have an effect...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection." [Jarvis DeBerry]
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
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| User: "Richo" |
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| Title: Re: Is God a Liar? |
20 Oct 2006 12:39:31 AM |
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Sphere wrote:
An entity arises from the actions of people
who adhere to this idea of God, and for
that matter from the actions of people who
claim this God does not exist.
OK lets call this entity "Simon the Wonder Hamster".
This entity
is just as real as any nation.
In other words "Not very"
Furthermore
this entity has very real effects upon me,
and may very well kill me in the near future
through involvement in a global war.
Could well do.
Is it more rational for me to accept the claims
of the adherents and naysayers that God
is omnipotent and omniscient and thereby
ignore this unnamed entity who has very
real effects upon my life, or to take this
entity as God and as a liar who is neither
omnipotent nor omniscient?
No, it would be an error to think that this entity "which arises from
belief" - has any of the attributes of God.
Why would you think it would?
Mark.
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| User: "Andres64" |
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| Title: Re: Is God a Liar? |
20 Oct 2006 05:36:01 PM |
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Sphere wrote:
An entity arises from the actions of people
who adhere to this idea of God, and for
that matter from the actions of people who
claim this God does not exist. This entity
is just as real as any nation. Furthermore
this entity has very real effects upon me,
and may very well kill me in the near future
through involvement in a global war.
Is it more rational for me to accept the claims
of the adherents and naysayers that God
is omnipotent and omniscient and thereby
ignore this unnamed entity who has very
real effects upon my life, or to take this
entity as God and as a liar who is neither
omnipotent nor omniscient?
The Christian god is a liar. 'He' even admits it.
1 Kings 22:23
Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the
mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning
thee.
2 Chronicles 18:22
Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the
mouth of these thy prophets.
Jeremiah 4:10
Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.
Jeremiah 20:7
O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived.
Ezekiel 14:9
And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the
Lord have deceived that prophet.
2 Thessalonians 2:11
For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they
should believe a lie.
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| User: "Les Hellawell" |
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| Title: Re: Is God a Liar? |
21 Oct 2006 05:28:03 AM |
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On 20 Oct 2006 15:36:01 -0700, "Andres64" <andresc64@excite.com>
wrote:
Sphere wrote:
An entity arises from the actions of people
who adhere to this idea of God, and for
that matter from the actions of people who
claim this God does not exist. This entity
is just as real as any nation. Furthermore
this entity has very real effects upon me,
and may very well kill me in the near future
through involvement in a global war.
Is it more rational for me to accept the claims
of the adherents and naysayers that God
is omnipotent and omniscient and thereby
ignore this unnamed entity who has very
real effects upon my life, or to take this
entity as God and as a liar who is neither
omnipotent nor omniscient?
The Christian god is a liar. 'He' even admits it.
So you believe this god exists but is a liar?
1 Kings 22:23
Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the
mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning
thee.
2 Chronicles 18:22
Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the
mouth of these thy prophets.
Jeremiah 4:10
Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.
Jeremiah 20:7
O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived.
Ezekiel 14:9
And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the
Lord have deceived that prophet.
2 Thessalonians 2:11
For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they
should believe a lie.
So are you arguing this is actual evidence for the gods behavoir?
All the above quotes were written by superstitous people believing
there is a god and making things upi n an endeavour to explain things
they did not understand. You get this sort of stuff all the time
nowadays There is a disaster and people cry "God why have you done
this to us". Or if they escape "Praise the Lard". We get told we are
followers of Satan. Write all this stuff down and you have the makings
of the Third Testament with people a thousand years hence reading it
avidly as if it was real.
"And thus the Lord saw that New Orleans was sinful and he moved
upon the face of the deep and sent a might wave of water to
drown and purify this den of iniquity even to the levelling their
houses. And he saw the evil atheists were followers of Satan
but bided his time. For this cause god sent them a delusion that
they might hang themselves.
- The chronicles of Bush, Chaper 2 verse 12 from "The Holy
Third Testament" 3009 Edition.
Anybody can make up this stuff and they did over 2000 years
ago.
--
Les Hellawell
Greetings from:
YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Is God a Liar? |
19 Oct 2006 11:32:39 PM |
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Sphere wrote:
An entity arises from the actions of people
who adhere to this idea of God, and for
that matter from the actions of people who
claim this God does not exist. This entity
is just as real as any nation. Furthermore
this entity has very real effects upon me,
and may very well kill me in the near future
through involvement in a global war.
Is it more rational for me to accept the claims
of the adherents and naysayers that God
is omnipotent and omniscient and thereby
ignore this unnamed entity who has very
real effects upon my life, or to take this
entity as God and as a liar who is neither
omnipotent nor omniscient?
Try to pinpoint the force that is really having an effect on your life.
Is it God? Or is it the belief in god? Now apply reason. Did an
extrasensory entity really have an effect on your life? And if not, is
it possible to retain this effect without belief in the extrasensory
entity?
IOW, isn't "God" just a placebo?
Uncle Vic
Six more days in Google Hell
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| User: "Pastor Kutchie" |
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| Title: Re: Is God a Liar? |
19 Oct 2006 11:56:18 PM |
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Sphere wrote:
No essence.
Is yourself all you can talk about?
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