| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Prominent Bethelite" |
| Date: |
25 Jan 2006 08:13:12 PM |
| Object: |
Is God Always Superior to Jesus? |
Hi, I'm Prominent Bethelite. The highest ranking Jehovah's
Witness on Usenet. I bring the word directly from the spirit
directed faithful and discreet slave itself at the heart of
Brooklyn Bethel. Take a seat and consider the following bible
truths for yourself before requesting a free home bible study
from Jehovahs Witnesses.
In this article we will consider the position of Jehovahs son,
Jesus and his part in bible prophecy.
JESUS never claimed to be God. Everything he said about himself
indicates that he did not consider himself equal to God in any
way—not in power, not in knowledge, not in age.
In every period of his existence, whether in heaven or on earth,
his speech and conduct reflect subordination to God. God is
always the superior, Jesus the lesser one who was created by God.
Jesus Distinguished From God
TIME and again, Jesus showed that he was a creature separate
from God and that he, Jesus, had a God above him, a God whom he
worshiped, a God whom he called "Father." In prayer to God, that
is, the Father, Jesus said, "You, the only true God." (John
17:3) At John 20:17 he said to Mary Magdalene: "I am ascending
to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God." (RS,
Catholic edition) At 2 Corinthians 1:3 the apostle Paul confirms
this relationship: "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord
Jesus Christ." Since Jesus had a God, his Father, he could not
at the same time be that God.
The apostle Paul had no reservations about speaking of Jesus and
God as distinctly separate: "For us there is one God, the
Father, . . . and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ." (1
Corinthians 8:6, JB) The apostle shows the distinction when he
mentions "the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of the
elect angels." (1 Timothy 5:21, RS Common Bible) Just as Paul
speaks of Jesus and the angels as being distinct from one
another in heaven, so too are Jesus and God.
Jesus' words at John 8:17, 18 are also significant. He states:
"In your own Law it is written, 'The witness of two men is
true.' I am one that bears witness about myself, and the Father
who sent me bears witness about me." Here Jesus shows that he
and the Father, that is, Almighty God, must be two distinct
entities, for how else could there truly be two witnesses?
Jesus further showed that he was a separate being from God by
saying: "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone."
(Mark 10:18, JB) So Jesus was saying that no one is as good as
God is, not even Jesus himself. God is good in a way that
separates him from Jesus.
God's Submissive Servant
TIME and again, Jesus made statements such as: "The Son cannot
do anything at his own pleasure, he can only do what he sees his
Father doing." (John 5:19, The Holy Bible, by Monsignor R. A.
Knox) "I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the
will of him that sent me." (John 6:38) "What I teach is not
mine, but belongs to him that sent me." (John 7:16) Is not the
sender superior to the one sent?
Jesus told the Jews: "I have come down from heaven to do, not my
will, but the will of him that sent me." —John 6:38
This relationship is evident in Jesus' illustration of the
vineyard. He likened God, his Father, to the owner of the
vineyard, who traveled abroad and left it in the charge of
cultivators, who represented the Jewish clergy. When the owner
later sent a slave to get some of the fruit of the vineyard, the
cultivators beat the slave and sent him away empty-handed. Then
the owner sent a second slave, and later a third, both of whom
got the same treatment. Finally, the owner said: "I will send my
son [Jesus] the beloved. Likely they will respect this one." But
the corrupt cultivators said: "'This is the heir; let us kill
him, that the inheritance may become ours.' With that they threw
him outside the vineyard and killed him." (Luke 20:9-16) Thus
Jesus illustrated his own position as one being sent by God to
do God's will, just as a father sends a submissive son.
The followers of Jesus always viewed him as a submissive servant
of God, not as God's equal. They prayed to God about "thy holy
servant Jesus, whom thou didst anoint, . . . and signs and
wonders are performed through the name of thy holy servant
Jesus."—Acts 4:23, 27, 30, RS, Catholic edition.
God Superior at All Times
AT THE very outset of Jesus' ministry, when he came up out of
the baptismal water, God's voice from heaven said: "This is my
Son, the beloved, whom I have approved." (Matthew 3:16, 17) Was
God saying that he was his own son, that he approved himself,
that he sent himself? No, God the Creator was saying that he, as
the superior, was approving a lesser one, his Son Jesus, for the
work ahead.
When Jesus cried out: "My God, my God, why have you deserted
me?" he surely did not believe that he himself was God
Jesus indicated his Father's superiority when he said:
"Jehovah's spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare
good news to the poor." (Luke 4:18) Anointing is the giving of
authority or a commission by a superior to someone who does not
already have authority. Here God is plainly the superior, for he
anointed Jesus, giving him authority that he did not previously
have.
Jesus made his Father's superiority clear when the mother of two
disciples asked that her sons sit one at the right and one at
the left of Jesus when he came into his Kingdom. Jesus answered:
"As for seats at my right hand and my left, these are not mine
to grant; they belong to those to whom they have been allotted
by my Father," that is, God. (Matthew 20:23, JB) Had Jesus been
Almighty God, those positions would have been his to give. But
Jesus could not give them, for they were God's to give, and
Jesus was not God.
Jesus' own prayers are a powerful example of his inferior
position. When Jesus was about to die, he showed who his
superior was by praying: "Father, if you wish, remove this cup
from me. Nevertheless, let, not my will, but yours take place."
(Luke 22:42) To whom was he praying? To a part of himself? No,
he was praying to someone entirely separate, his Father, God,
whose will was superior and could be different from his own, the
only One able to "remove this cup."
Then, as he neared death, Jesus cried out: "My God, my God, why
have you deserted me?" (Mark 15:34, JB) To whom was Jesus crying
out? To himself or to part of himself? Surely, that cry, "My
God," was not from someone who considered himself to be God. And
if Jesus were God, then by whom was he deserted? Himself? That
would not make sense. Jesus also said: "Father, into your hands
I entrust my spirit." (Luke 23:46) If Jesus were God, for what
reason should he entrust his spirit to the Father?
After Jesus died, he was in the tomb for parts of three days. If
he were God, then Habakkuk 1:12 is wrong when it says: "O my
God, my Holy One, you do not die." But the Bible says that Jesus
did die and was unconscious in the tomb. And who resurrected
Jesus from the dead? If he was truly dead, he could not have
resurrected himself. On the other hand, if he was not really
dead, his pretended death would not have paid the ransom price
for Adam's sin. But he did pay that price in full by his genuine
death. So it was "God [who] resurrected [Jesus] by loosing the
pangs of death." (Acts 2:24) The superior, God Almighty, raised
the lesser, his servant Jesus, from the dead.
Does Jesus' ability to perform miracles, such as resurrecting
people, indicate that he was God? Well, the apostles and the
prophets Elijah and Elisha had that power too, but that did not
make them more than men. God gave the power to perform miracles
to the prophets, Jesus, and the apostles to show that He was
backing them. But it did not make any of them part of a plural
Godhead.
Jesus Had Limited Knowledge
WHEN Jesus gave his prophecy about the end of this system of
things, he stated: "But of that day or that hour no one knows,
not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the
Father." (Mark 13:32, RS, Catholic edition) Had Jesus been the
equal Son part of a Godhead, he would have known what the Father
knows. But Jesus did not know, for he was not equal to God.
'New Testament research has been leading an increasing number of
scholars to the conclusion that Jesus certainly never believed
himself to be God.' —Bulletin of the John Rylands Library
Similarly, we read at Hebrews 5:8 that Jesus "learned obedience
from the things he suffered." Can we imagine that God had to
learn anything? No, but Jesus did, for he did not know
everything that God knew. And he had to learn something that God
never needs to learn—obedience. God never has to obey anyone.
The difference between what God knows and what Christ knows also
existed when Jesus was resurrected to heaven to be with God.
Note the first words of the last book of the Bible: "The
revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him." (Revelation
1:1, RS, Catholic edition) If Jesus himself were part of a
Godhead, would he have to be given a revelation by another part
of the Godhead—God? Surely he would have known all about it, for
God knew. But Jesus did not know, for he was not God.
Jesus Continues Subordinate
IN HIS prehuman existence, and also when he was on earth, Jesus
was subordinate to God. After his resurrection, he continues to
be in a subordinate, secondary position.
Speaking of the resurrection of Jesus, Peter and those with him
told the Jewish Sanhedrin: "God exalted this one [Jesus] . . .
to his right hand." (Acts 5:31) Paul said: "God exalted him to a
superior position." (Philippians 2:9) If Jesus had been God, how
could Jesus have been exalted, that is, raised to a higher
position than he had previously enjoyed? He would already have
been an exalted part of the Trinity. If, before his exaltation,
Jesus had been equal to God, exalting him any further would have
made him superior to God.
Paul also said that Christ entered "heaven itself, so that he
could appear in the actual presence of God on our behalf."
(Hebrews 9:24, JB) If you appear in someone else's presence, how
can you be that person? You cannot. You must be different and
separate.
Similarly, just before being stoned to death, the martyr Stephen
"gazed into heaven and caught sight of God's glory and of Jesus
standing at God's right hand." (Acts 7:55) Clearly, he saw two
separate individuals—but no holy spirit, no Trinity Godhead.
In the account at Revelation 4:8 to 5:7, God is shown seated on
his heavenly throne, but Jesus is not. He has to approach God to
take a scroll from God's right hand. This shows that in heaven
Jesus is not God but is separate from him.
In agreement with the foregoing, the Bulletin of the John
Rylands Library in Manchester, England, states: "In his post-
resurrection heavenly life, Jesus is portrayed as retaining a
personal individuality every bit as distinct and separate from
the person of God as was his in his life on earth as the
terrestrial Jesus. Alongside God and compared with God, he
appears, indeed, as yet another heavenly being in God's heavenly
court, just as the angels were—though as God's Son, he stands in
a different category, and ranks far above them."—Compare
Philippians 2:11.
The Bulletin also says: "What, however, is said of his life and
functions as the celestial Christ neither means nor implies that
in divine status he stands on a par with God himself and is
fully God. On the contrary, in the New Testament picture of his
heavenly person and ministry we behold a figure both separate
from and subordinate to God."
In the everlasting future in heaven, Jesus will continue to be a
separate, subordinate servant of God. The Bible expresses it
this way: "After that will come the end, when he [Jesus in
heaven] will hand over the kingdom to God the Father . . . Then
the Son himself will be subjected to the One who has subjected
everything to him, so that God may be all in all."—1 Corinthians
15:24, 28, NJB.
Jesus Never Claimed to Be God
THE Bible's position is clear. Not only is Almighty God,
Jehovah, a personality separate from Jesus but He is at all
times his superior. Jesus is always presented as separate and
lesser, a humble servant of God. That is why the Bible plainly
says that "the head of the Christ is God" in the same way that
"the head of every man is the Christ." (1 Corinthians 11:3) And
this is why Jesus himself said: "The Father is greater than
I."—John 14:28, RS, Catholic edition.
The fact is that Jesus is not God and never claimed to be. This
is being recognized by an increasing number of scholars. As the
Rylands Bulletin states: "The fact has to be faced that New
Testament research over, say, the last thirty or forty years has
been leading an increasing number of reputable New Testament
scholars to the conclusion that Jesus . . . certainly never
believed himself to be God."
The Bulletin also says of first-century Christians: "When,
therefore, they assigned [Jesus] such honorific titles as
Christ, Son of man, Son of God and Lord, these were ways of
saying not that he was God, but that he did God's work."
Thus, even some religious scholars admit that the idea of Jesus'
being God opposes the entire testimony of the Bible. There, God
is always the superior, and Jesus is the subordinate servant.
()""""""() ()""""() ()""""() ()""""() ()""""""()
() () () () () () () () () ()
() () () () () () () () () ()
() () () () () () () () () ()
() `""""""` `"""""` `"""""` `"""""` ()
() ()
() The Watchtower and the Jehovah's Witnesses Cult ()
() is a CUNNING CONTRIVANCE, a FRAUD, a DIRTY LIE, ()
() a CRUEL HOAX, a SATANIC TRICK, a SCAM, a WICKED ()
() CHEAT, a SPIRITUAL PORNOGRAPHER and FORNICATOR, ()
() the FOULEST DISEASE masquerading as a religion, ()
() a PARADISE for FILTHY PEDOPHILES, a BLASPHEMOUS ()
() INSULT, an ABOMINATION, a DISGUSTING THING, the ()
() GREAT HARLOT OF BABYLON, an ANTICHRIST, a FALSE ()
() PROPHET, a WOLFISH DECEITFUL WITNESS, a SCANDAL ()
() and a DAMNED OUTRAGE right from start to finish ()
() ()
`""""() So, ()""""`
() why ()
() argue ()
`"""() about ()"""`
() it? ()
() ()
Love
___ _ __
/ _ \_______ __ _ (_)__ ___ ___ / /_
/ ___/ __/ _ \/ ' \/ / _ \/ -_) _ \/ __/
/_/ /_/ \___/_/_/_/_/_//_/\__/_//_/\__/
___ __ __ ___ __
/ _ )___ / /_/ / ___ / (_) /____
/ _ / -_) __/ _ \/ -_) / / __/ -_)
/____/\__/\__/_//_/\__/_/_/\__/\__/
Examples of FINE SPIRITUAL FOOD AT THE APPROPRIATE TIME FROM
"THE SLAVE":
"We need not here repeat the evidences that the 'seventh trump'
began its
sounding in A.D. 1840, and will continue until the end of the
time of
trouble" {WT Nov 1880 p1}; "masturbation is no mere innocent
pastime but
rather a practice that can lead to homosexual acts" {WT May 15
1970 p315;
also WT Oct 1 1970 p604}; "If heaven were made the receptacle of
the
heathen, savages, barbarians, the idiotic, simple, insane and
INFANTS, it
would cease to be heaven to a considerable extent, and become a
pandemonium
.. billions of ignorant, imbecile and degraded .. never formed
characters
[not] fit companions for saints" {WT Oct 15 1896 p245} Fine JW
Wisdom!!
---------------------------------------------------------------
-------
THE LIST OF AMAZING JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES' CLAIMS, BELIEFS &
PREDICTIONS
Prepared by MYSELF may be found at the following
websites:-
http://angelfire.com/rant/scumbag/
http://www.freeminds.org/history/part1.htm
http://www1.tip.nl/~t661020/wtcitaten/part1.htm
http://localsonly.wilmington.net/jmalik/TheList.zip
http://watchtower.org
It is FULLY IN ACCORDANCE with the teachings of the WATCHTOWER
Bible &
Tract Society (WTBTS) for every member of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES to
Carefully
Study the LIST mentioned above, which comprises truly fine
scriptural food
from its own publications. Remember the WTBTS told you to
confirm whether
what was taught by the WTBTS was in harmony with the Bible - and
if not,
not to circulate it {WT Mar 1 1894 repr p1629}, to confirm WT
teachings
against the Bible {WT May 1 1934 p131}, to invite critical
examination of
your faith {WT Aug 15 1950 p263}, that, far from being wrong, it
is your
duty to examine religion to see if it is true or false {WT Nov
15 1963
p688}, that you should actively examine your own religion {The
Truth That
Leads To Eternal Life 1968 p13, a WTBTS publication}, that you
should check
and examine BOTH sides of a matter {Awake! Oct 22 1973 p6}, that
your
religion was in no way afraid of being exposed to scrutiny {WT
Aug 1 1978
p12}, that you should to be willing to submit everything to
scrutiny
{Awake! Aug 22 1984 p22/28}, that you should not have a closed
mind {WT Nov
22 1984 p3-4}, that you should actively refer to the older
publications {WT
Jun 15 1985 p12}, that all people are encouraged to examine
other religions
and with an open mind {WT Apr 1 1991 p17} and that you are
encouraged to
exhibit freedom of thought {Awake! Jun 8 1994 p21}. So, please
follow this
advice of the WTBTS, and study that LIST very carefully. "You
will know the
Truth and the Truth will set you free."(John 8:32). Fine advice
indeed!
THE LIST IS PRODUCED IN DIRECT RESPONSE TO A RECENT REQUEST BY
THE WTBTS in
{WT Dec 1 1990 p19}, where it quotes {WT Dec 15 1914 p377-8}:
"If any one
knows anything better, let him take it. If any of you ever find
anything
better, we hope you will tell us." Kindly, Prominent Bethelite
has duly
obliged. Having read it, if you find the WTBTS has ever told
falsehoods,
follow the WTBTS advice clearly given in {WT Dec 1 1991 p7} "A
religion
that teaches lies cannot be true."; if you find the WTBTS has
even made one
false prophecy, follow the WTBTS advice clearly given in {WT Feb
1 1992 p3}
"Beware of False Prophets!" - and cut yourself off from these
Foul Cheats.
-=-
This message was sent via two or more anonymous remailing services.
.
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| User: "Lörd Phÿltêr" |
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| Title: Re: Is God Always Superior to Jesus? |
25 Jan 2006 09:41:57 PM |
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(Prominent Bethelite) had me ROTFL
with: news:GAN5FYXJ38742.8841666667@anonymous:
Hi, I'm Prominent Bethelite. The highest ranking Jehovah's
Witness on Usenet.
<rest of theistic insanity snipped>
That's nice honey, now ***** outta alt.atheism, mental cripple!
--
Lörd Phÿltêr
Alt.Atheism #1938
Denizen of Darkness #44 & AFJC Antipodean Attaché
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Is God Always Superior to Jesus? |
26 Jan 2006 09:38:39 AM |
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On 26 Jan 2006 02:13:12 -0000,
Anonymous-Remailer@See.Comment.Header (Prominent
Bethelite) spake thusly:
Hi, I'm Prominent Bethelite. The highest ranking Jehovah's
Witness on Usenet. I bring the word directly from the spirit
directed faithful and discreet slave itself at the heart of
Brooklyn Bethel. Take a seat and consider the following bible
truths for yourself before requesting a free home bible study
from Jehovahs Witnesses.
No ego, nor vanity there, huh? (:
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
The Last Days were in the first century:
Matthew 16:27-28
27) For the Son of man shall come in the glory
of his Father with his angels; and then he shall
reward every man according to his works.
28) Verily I say unto you, There be some standing
here, which shall not taste of death, till they
see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Jesus said He would return within the lifetime
of the Apostles. we know this, because Jesus
said SOME (at least one, not not most) would
be alive when this happened.
This is not the Transfiguration. There was no
coming with the Father's angels and no judging
every man according to His works and they were
all still alive.
This is not Pentecost. There was no coming with
the Father's angels and no judging every man
according to His works and they were all but one,
still alive.
Now see a verse that no one argues is about
His Second Coming and see that this is what
Jesus was referring to, in Matthew 16:27-28.
"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward
is with me, to give every man according as
his work shall be." - Revelation 22:12
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| User: "Bill" |
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| Title: Re: Is God Always Superior to Jesus? |
26 Jan 2006 10:48:46 AM |
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Just some of the mountain of evidence that the bibles are nothing more than
fiction, myths, fables and impossible stories.
"Pastor Dave" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:77rht1hkmamg6ofjf41caoh2oaiel4m2a1@4ax.com...
On 26 Jan 2006 02:13:12 -0000,
Anonymous-Remailer@See.Comment.Header (Prominent
Bethelite) spake thusly:
Hi, I'm Prominent Bethelite. The highest ranking Jehovah's
Witness on Usenet. I bring the word directly from the spirit
directed faithful and discreet slave itself at the heart of
Brooklyn Bethel. Take a seat and consider the following bible
truths for yourself before requesting a free home bible study
from Jehovahs Witnesses.
No ego, nor vanity there, huh? (:
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
The Last Days were in the first century:
Matthew 16:27-28
27) For the Son of man shall come in the glory
of his Father with his angels; and then he shall
reward every man according to his works.
28) Verily I say unto you, There be some standing
here, which shall not taste of death, till they
see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Jesus said He would return within the lifetime
of the Apostles. we know this, because Jesus
said SOME (at least one, not not most) would
be alive when this happened.
This is not the Transfiguration. There was no
coming with the Father's angels and no judging
every man according to His works and they were
all still alive.
This is not Pentecost. There was no coming with
the Father's angels and no judging every man
according to His works and they were all but one,
still alive.
Now see a verse that no one argues is about
His Second Coming and see that this is what
Jesus was referring to, in Matthew 16:27-28.
"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward
is with me, to give every man according as
his work shall be." - Revelation 22:12
.
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| User: "=?iso-8859-1?B?QXLlY2jx1WWk?=" |
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| Title: Re: Is God Always Superior to Jesus? |
26 Jan 2006 01:16:06 PM |
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"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:817Cf.1369$dF5.1140@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
Just some of the mountain of evidence that the bibles are nothing more
than fiction, myths, fables and impossible stories.
====================
And all designed to make the ancient priests very, very, very RICH. Just
follow the money.......
Arach........
God's treatment for leprosy: Get two birds. Kill one. Dip the live
bird in the blood of the dead one. Sprinkle the blood on the leper
seven times, and then let the blood-soaked bird fly off. Next find a
lamb and kill it. Wipe some of its blood on the patient's right ear,
thumb, and big toe. Sprinkle seven times with oil and wipe some of the
oil on his right ear, thumb and big toe. Repeat. Finally kill a couple
doves and offer one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt
offering. (Leviticus14:2-52) (Credit Douglas Berry)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~<~~<~~{@ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~<~~<~~{@ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<~~<~~{@
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| User: "Jacques Pelletier" |
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| Title: Re: Is God Always Superior to Jesus? |
26 Jan 2006 05:30:52 PM |
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On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 13:16:06 -0600, AråchñÕe¤ wrote:
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:817Cf.1369$dF5.1140@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
Just some of the mountain of evidence that the bibles are nothing more
than fiction, myths, fables and impossible stories.
====================
And all designed to make the ancient priests very, very, very RICH. Just
follow the money.......
Arach........
God's treatment for leprosy: Get two birds. Kill one. Dip the live bird in
the blood of the dead one. Sprinkle the blood on the leper seven times,
and then let the blood-soaked bird fly off. Next find a lamb and kill it.
Wipe some of its blood on the patient's right ear, thumb, and big toe.
Sprinkle seven times with oil and wipe some of the oil on his right ear,
thumb and big toe. Repeat. Finally kill a couple doves and offer one for a
sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. (Leviticus14:2-52)
(Credit Douglas Berry) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~<~~<~~{@ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~<~~<~~{@
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<~~<~~{@
I don't think that was intended to cure leprosy; it was just a ritual for
(religious) purification. I may be wrong on this, I don't read the bible
often.
JP
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
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| Title: Re: Is God Always Superior to Jesus? |
28 Jan 2006 02:34:30 AM |
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On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 15:38:39 GMT, Pastor Dave
<_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, I'm Prominent Bethelite. The highest ranking Jehovah's
Witness on Usenet. I bring the word directly from the spirit
directed faithful and discreet slave itself at the heart of
Brooklyn Bethel. Take a seat and consider the following bible
truths for yourself before requesting a free home bible study
from Jehovahs Witnesses.
No ego, nor vanity there, huh? (:
And no good manner to boot. So you might have some competition here,
l'lle Davey.
.
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Is God Always Superior to Jesus? |
25 Jan 2006 10:16:53 PM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Prominent Bethelite
(Anonymous-Remailer@See.Comment.Header) made the light shine upon us with
this:
Hi, I'm Prominent Bethelite. The highest ranking Jehovah's
Witness on Usenet.
<snip>
<plonk>
Not any more.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011, aw Hellboy #5
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
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