Religions > Atheism > Is Harry Potter's popularity a sign of the coming end of Christianity and rebirth of Paganism?
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Apollonius" |
| Date: |
01 Aug 2003 04:32:57 PM |
| Object: |
Is Harry Potter's popularity a sign of the coming end of Christianity and rebirth of Paganism? |
Harry Potter and the Future of Europe
By Jeff Fountain
Arguably the greatest phenomenon of the new millennium so far is a
nerdish schoolboy named Harry Potter. This pre-adolescent orphan has
taken the literary world by storm in what Time Magazine calls 'one of
the most bizarre and surreal' success stories in the annals of
publishing.
Adult best-seller lists have become dominated by four titles authored
(for children!) by the previously unknown single-mother, J. K. Rowling,
catapulting her name among such popular giants as Stephen King, Tom
Clancy and John Grisham.
On a recent visit to New Zealand, my wife and I encountered bookstores
throwing Harry Potter parties ('bring your own broom') throughout the
country. The release of the fourth HP title triggered a price war that
waged in the headlines for days.
Back in the Netherlands, we witnessed the same mania with bookstores -
and even the historic church in Amsterdam where Rembrandt is buried,
the Westerkerk - jammed with children dressed as witches, spellbound by
Harry Potter readings at the midnight hour.
The commercial success has been such that a new proverb could be added
to the English language: 'A Rowling tome gathers no loss.' And that
would be true for other tongues too. Harry's adventures are being
translated into many languages, major and minor, including Icelandic,
Basque, Korean, Chinese and Serbo-Croatian!
American humorist, Dave Barry, protested in a recent tongue-in-cheek
column that he was "not jealous of the woman who writes the Harry
Potter books. It does not bother me that her most recent book, Harry
Potter and the Enormous Royalty Check, has already become the best-
selling book in world history, beating out her previous book, Harry
Potter Purchases Microsoft."
Perfectly innocent
Before I had ever read a Harry Potter book, some of my Christian
friends had told me how witty, richly imaginative and full of suspense
and emotional realism the books were.
However, a rather bizarre and surreal experience I had had myself not
so long ago, with a woman who herself could have stepped straight out
of the pages of a Harry Potter novel, had aroused in me a shrewd
suspicion that this phenomenon could be a significant indicator of the
future of our western culture.
But firstly, just in case you've been on a desert island for the past
year, let me explain some salient biographical facts about our hero.
The fictional Harry Potter is orphaned as an infant when his wizard
parents are murdered by an evil lord. He is left on a doorstep to be
raised by his aunt and uncle in the world of 'Muggles' or non-magical
folk, who hold a 'repressive, medieval attitude' toward magic. Yet it
has been predicted that there "will be books written about Harry -
every child in our (magical) world will know his name" (a prediction
moving uncanningly towards fulfilment in the 'Muggles' world too!)
Harry's break comes when he later attends the Howarts School of
Witchcraft and Wizardry, preparing him to enter into his true spiritual
identity and destiny. On his eleventh birthday, Harry is transported to
a parallel magic world, much more exciting and captivating than
Muggle 'Flatland'. And so our Harry - and each of his young readers -
is initiated into an intriguing world of transfiguration, divination,
broomstick flying, dungeons, poltergeists and headless ghosts.
Spells are also part of the fascination Harry Potter's magic world
holds for his young fans. Browsing through a booklet entitled, Why kids
like Harry Potter , I read of a young girl who said she too would love
to be able to cast spells on all the bullies at school, and that her
favourite character was the the poltergeist.
So, is this just perfectly innocent childhood imagination? After all,
Christian fantasy writers like C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien drew on
themes of magic, witches and wizards. Well-known evangelical writer and
speaker, Chuck Colson, told his radio audience that 'the magic in these
books is purely mechanical, as opposed to occultic. That is, Harry and
his friends cast spells, read crystal balls, and turn themselves into
animals - but they don't make contact with a supernatural world.'
A Christianity Today editorial (Jan 10, 2000) declared that Harry was
definitely on the side of light fighting the 'dark powers', and
eulogised the series as a 'Book of Virtues'.
But these comments from usually reliable evangelical sources seem to me
to underestimate the significant shift in the 'plausibility
structures' - what people consider to be plausible or believable - that
has coincided with the millennium turnover.
When Tolkien and Lewis used supernatural themes last century, few
believed literally in the reality of witches and wizards. They wrote in
an 'age of innocence' (or of unbelief) about such things. Readers
understood the tales to be allegories of spiritual truths.
But through the cheerful normalcy with which Harry experiences the
magical realm, is not Rowling communicating to her global audience of
young readers something much more? Namely, that witchcraft, magic and
wizardry are normal and good. Anyone who does not accept this obviously
is still captive in the dysfunctional world of 'Muggles'.
Today's readers are much more likely to accept the literal reality of
the spiritual realities behind crystal balls and spells. Perhaps they
don't believe in demons or spirits, but in some kind of spiritual
energy or force at work.
As for changing into animals, is this not making contact with the
supernatural? I happened to catch a tv film recently in England about a
girl who believed she changed into a wolf sometimes at night and
attacked people. Afraid of the harm she might do in wolf form, she
eventually found a believer in her story, who helped her get
permanently released as a wolf on a secret reservation in Scotland.
This new expression of an ancient shamanistic phenomenon certainly
stretched my 'plausibility structure', but obviously had an audience
sufficient to warrant it being broadcast on British television.
While using techniques of magic and mythical creatures, Christian
fantasy writers like Lewis and Tolkien develop their imaginary worlds
within their own personal commitment to orthodox Christian belief in a
sovereign God. Rowling does not share that commitment. Although she
denies any personal belief in the magic her books portray, she still
tells her readers, "It's important to remember that we all have magic
inside of us."
Unlike these Christian fantasies, Harry Potter is a post-Christian
creation set within an occult cosmology. And his phenomenal popularity
among young and old signals where our western culture seems to be
headed.
Which brings us to my own personal encounter, on a trip to Bosnia, with
a woman named Danica. Frankly, Danica rattled my cage. She shook my
presuppositions. She challenged some of my comfortable beliefs about
God. She forced me to do some hard thinking about the spiritual realm.
And she awakened me to a likely and unsettling scenario for the future
of the west.
Danica and I were the only English-speakers among half-a-dozen
passengers stranded at the airport in Budapest, after missing our
connection to Sarajevo. The next available flight would not be for two
days! So we were bundled off in a minivan to a hotel. En route we
inquired of each other's business in Bosnia. I was to teach in our YWAM
DTS in the war-torn city. Danica explained that she conducted therapy
groups for Bosnian women who had been raped or lost their menfolk
during the recent war. I was intrigued by this very practical hands-on
reconciliation work, so we agreed to talk more over a meal in the hotel
dining room.
As the conversation unfolded, Danica explained that she was into the
pre-Christian beliefs of Old Europe. She handed me her card. On the
reverse side was listed a number of tours she conducted to ancient
sites including Malta, the labyrinth of Knossus in Crete, or to Celtic
sites in Ireland with the Sisters of Wisdom, staying at places with
intriguing names like the Inn of the Witch.
She then described herself as a pagan, Jungian (disciple of Carl
Jung), feminist, archetypal psychotherapist!
Suddenly I felt I was getting out of my depth! I began to doubt the
wisdom of pursuing this conversation much further. But Danica was
getting into her element.
"Old Europe enjoyed a golden age of peace as a matriarchal society,"
she explained enthusiastically, "worshipping the Mother Goddess." But
the advent of the bronze-age sky gods, including the Biblical Yahweh,
had ended this harmonious age and the patriarchal age of violence and
gender-suppression began.
Old European societies, she continued, had deep insights into spiritual
realities which had been smothered by later patriarchal eras. They had
even known the exact locations of sacred centres, dimensional
thresholds or gateways into the other-worlds or parallel universes...
Despite a degree in history, I had apparently missed this part of my
education. Growing up in New Zealand, the classical period had not
appealed to me as being particularly relevant to modern life and times.
I tried to assess this woman sitting opposite me. She was urbane,
articulate, self-assured, well-read, very contemporary - and yet was
deadly serious about everything she was telling me. She was the first
devout pagan, packaged as a civilised, sophisticated westerner, I had
had a conversation with. She was a real believer in the deities of
polytheism!? What sort of weird, esoteric, fringe person was she? I
wondered.
And what was I doing listening to her gobbledegook?
"Danica, who do you think Jesus of Nazareth was?" I asked, trying to
steer the conversation towards my world.
"There you go with your patriarchal 'either-or' thinking!" she smiled
indulgently.
I was encountering a disdain shared by mystics towards the possibility
of historical persons and events revealing eternal truths.
As I retired to my hotel room, my head was buzzing with questions. What
was this all about? Was this a diabolical trap? Or could it be a divine
encounter? Was there any truth in Danica's analysis of Europe's past?
As I lay on my bed, I traced a mental map of our conversation covering
subjects we ranged over and questions raised - a map I would later
reproduce on paper in Sarajevo.
We were poles apart in worldviews. Yet something about Danica's
perspective rang true. What was it? Unlike so many Europeans, Danica
strongly affirmed the spiritual realm, and was not impressed with the
pursuit of the western materialistic dream. That in itself was
refreshing. We shared a common understanding of the reality of the
spiritual - if not a common understanding of the truth about that
realm.
She was concerned about the environment, about realising one's full
potential, about peace and justice, about the balance between being and
doing, about gender issues - questions that ought to concern biblical
Christians.
Yet her vision for a New Europe would be that of a revived Old Europe.
Old, animistic, pagan Europe - in a new sophisticated form!
Vaguely I began to recall something Leslie Newbigin had predicted about
Europe. Newbigin, a former missionary bishop in India, challenged
western church leaders to recognise where European society was
heading. "What made Europe 'Europe'?" he would often ask. The ethnic,
religious and linguistic roots of the Europeans were all eastern. Yet
somehow Europe had developed an identity distinct from Asia. It had
became known as The Continent - when it was the one 'continent' that
was not a true continent! It was simply the western peninsula of the
Eurasian landmass.
So what then had made Europe 'Europe'? The simple answer, Newbigin
said, was that about 2000 years ago, messengers came to Europe with a
Book that told a Story that brought Hope - and transformed European
society.
But, he warned, if Europeans rejected the Book, forgot the Story and
lost the Hope, Europe simply would merge back into its eastern roots.
Europe would become re-Oriented!
Was this then what this encounter was all about?! Perhaps Danica was
not just some strange leftover from Europe's pre-Christian past. Maybe
she represented a very likely future for Europe - and the west in
general! She could be a preview of tomorrow's Europe!
Sleep now did not come easily. At my bedside, the cover of a tourist
magazine caught my eye: "Visit the labyrinth of Buda Hill" Labyrinth??!
Danica had just talked about a labyrinth - in Crete. I doubt I had ever
had a conversation with anyone about a labyrinth before in my life, and
now here was a magazine in my room telling about a labyrinth just down
the road! What sort of coincidence was this? Jung would probably have
called this a 'synchronicity'. This was a little spooky. What was going
on here?
I hardly knew what a labyrinth was, other than an underground maze of
some sort. But the article described labyrinths as pre-literate
poetical and philosophical statements about the meaning of life. They
expressed a worldview. I was intrigued and apprehensive at the same
time.
The next morning, Danica was equally surprised to hear about this
labyrinth, this being her first visit to Budapest. We had time to kill,
so I suggested we meet that afternoon on Buda Hill to explore this new
discovery.
So later that day, we descended into a network of underground tunnels
which had been recently renovated into a fascinating museum tracing the
history of the Hungarian people.
Danica immediately found herself at home in the first section of the
labyrinth, portraying the world of the pagan Old Europeans, worshipping
and appeasing gods and goddesses. Shaman figures and sacrifice stones
were part of this animistic worldview, which believed the physical or
natural world to be 'animated' by the spiritual or supernatural world,
as a hand might 'animate' a glove. Animism was Europe's original belief
system. Like the Greeks, Romans, Germans, Celts, Norsemen and the
Slavs, the early Hungarians too had been animists.
The labyrinthine passages then led us into the Christian phase of
Hungarian life, when life and society was ordered by Theism , the
belief in a personal, infinite, sovereign Creator God.
Lastly we found ourselves in a satirical section on the modern era of
homo consumus , the product of the age of Materialism which followed
the Enlightenment.
At a crossroads in the labyrinth, we met a group of lost, giggling
schoolgirls. They couldn't read their map and in desperation asked us
the way out.
What a picture of today's European, I thought. Lost in history's maze
without a map! No Book. No Story. No Hope.
After we ourselves emerged into the Budapest sunlight from the
labyrinth, Danica led me across the square to the St Mathias Cathedral,
also on Buda Hill. Although this was her first visit there, she began
to explain knowledgeably to me item after item of pagan symbolism built
into this historic place of Christian worship. Carl Jung's observation
sprang to mind: 'Europe is a cathedral built on pagan foundations'.
By now, I was awakening to a new realisation of Europe's - and the
west's - possible future. The labyrinth had led us through each of the
major worldviews, depicting European progress from Animism to Theism
and then on to Materialism .
But westerners today were at a crossroads, rejecting Materialism as a
world view. For the first time in history, westerners had tried all
three options in turn - and then rejected each of them. Where could
they turn to now?
Unless there was a revival of Biblical Theism, the future would be
Animism in a new 21st century guise.
Newbigin was right. My encounter with Danica was opening my eyes to the
spiritual realities of post-Christian Europe, a Europe that could
increasingly resemble pre-Christian Old Europe - a Europe where Harry
Potter would feel very much at home.
Over the following weeks and months I found myself constantly wrestling
with the issues raised by my Budapest experience. I took down books
that had gathered dust on my shelves for years and discovered a new
relevancy in their pages. 'The Dawning of the Pagan Moon' by David
Burnett, was once such title. I was intrigued to discover that an
encounter with a white witch had led the author to research the revival
of pagan spirituality in England.
My old dog-eared copy of Francis Schaeffer's classic on
epistimology, 'He is there and he is not silent' , triggered the
formulation in my mind of a 'reality matrix' . Schaeffer argues that
the broad worldview options available are very few. They are shaped by
our answers to two basic questions. One, did creation have a personal
or impersonal origin? and two, is ultimate reality finite or infinite?
These two questions can be sketched as a matrix of two intersecting
axes: the finite/infinite axis, and the personal/impersonal axis. Thus
we are offered four alternatives:
+ the finite-impersonal option of atheism or materialism - only matter
matters;
+ the infinite-impersonal option of pantheism - everything is God (what
Schaeffer calls 'paneverythingism'), as found in Hinduism and much of
the New Age;
+ the finite-personal option of polytheism - many finite deities, as in
pre-Christian European religions, Danica's Old Europe; and
+ the infinite-personal God of the Bible: theism .
In the light of my recent experience I began to see that the western
axis has been that of atheism-theism , while the eastern worldview
belongs to the polytheism-pantheism axis. With many in the west
rejecting both theism and materialism, a new animism was on the rise,
mixing and matching elements from both polytheism and pantheism. What
other options are available?
But of course, we live in post-modern times, when all "-isms" are
considered "was-ms"! Meta-narratives, worldviews or broad explanations
of reality, are rejected. This reality matrix itself is a 'modern'
rational construct, irrelevant for post-moderns, who simply shrug their
shoulders and say, "So what?" But the post-modern mentality fits the
irrationality of the pantheism/ polytheism fusion of contradictory
concepts very well., and provides a fertile breeding ground for a new
pagan spirituality.
Unsettling? Yes, especially when we recall that the last occasion when
paganism made major inroads into European culture was under Hitler! He
took the ancient Germanic gods seriously; his henchmen Goebbels and
Himmler could have been graduates of a School of Witchcraft and
Wizardry themselves!
But God is not surprised. This is nothing new for Him. The Bible
unfolded against this sort of animistic, pagan background. Moses and
Elijah confronted pagan gods. Paul spoke the gospel into Athen's pagan,
animistic world. The Irish Celts joyfully transmitted the good news
from one pagan people to another, and evangelised much of medieval
Europe.
It's been done before. What was their secret then? How can it happen
again?
Perhaps the Harry Potter books will help us wake up to our need to
learn to communicate God's truth in new ways into a new pagan
spirituality.
Jeff Fountain
www.relay-network.org/articles/fountain4.htm
--
Sent by apollonius from mail15 subdomain of com
This is a spam protected message. Please answer with reference header.
Posted via http://www.usenet-replayer.com/cgi/content/new
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| User: "Jeremy Martin" |
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| Title: Re: Is Harry Potter's popularity a sign of the coming end of Christianity and rebirth of Paganism? |
03 Aug 2003 12:43:54 PM |
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("Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com>):
On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 02:00:38 -0500, Jeremy Martin wrote:
("towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>):
Jeremy Martin wrote:
("towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>):
Apollonius wrote:
After all,
Christian fantasy writers like C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien drew
on themes of magic, witches and wizards.
Isn't that an redundancy?
Nah. In fantasy terms, I can draw a big distinction between what I
think of when it comes to all three of those items.
I was referring to the term "Christian fantasy writers". Sorry, should
have made that more clear.
I cannot read, so it's okay.
You mean you've been fooling us all this time???
I just kind of hit the keys and run spell check.
.
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| User: "Peter H" |
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| Title: Re: Is Harry Potter's popularity a sign of the coming end of Christianityand rebirth of Paganism? |
03 Aug 2003 03:08:26 PM |
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Jeremy Martin wrote:
("Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com>):
On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 02:00:38 -0500, Jeremy Martin wrote:
("towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>):
Jeremy Martin wrote:
I cannot read, so it's okay.
You mean you've been fooling us all this time???
I just kind of hit the keys and run spell check.
Ah, then. That explains the multitude of monkies outside my door with an
innumerable sea of clacking machines.
Pete H
--
If you're always right
there's something wrong.
anon.
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| User: "Cathy Cowette" |
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| Title: Re: Is Harry Potter's popularity a sign of the coming end of Christianity and rebirth of Paganism? |
03 Aug 2003 04:51:15 PM |
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"Peter H" <pmhilton@mfx.net> wrote in message
news:3F2D6BBA.4000905@mfx.net...
Jeremy Martin wrote:
("Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com>):
On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 02:00:38 -0500, Jeremy Martin wrote:
("towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>):
Jeremy Martin wrote:
I cannot read, so it's okay.
You mean you've been fooling us all this time???
I just kind of hit the keys and run spell check.
Ah, then. That explains the multitude of monkies outside my door with an
innumerable sea of clacking machines.
Pete H
--
If you're always right
there's something wrong.
anon.
I have it on good authority that those monkeys are actually our elite force
of Northern Maine cops, Pete.
Cathy
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| User: "Peter H" |
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| Title: Re: Is Harry Potter's popularity a sign of the coming end of Christianityand rebirth of Paganism? |
03 Aug 2003 05:49:08 PM |
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Cathy Cowette wrote:
"Peter H" <pmhilton@mfx.net> wrote in message
news:3F2D6BBA.4000905@mfx.net...
Jeremy Martin wrote:
("Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com>):
On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 02:00:38 -0500, Jeremy Martin wrote:
("towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>):
Jeremy Martin wrote:
I cannot read, so it's okay.
You mean you've been fooling us all this time???
I just kind of hit the keys and run spell check.
Ah, then. That explains the multitude of monkies outside my door with an
innumerable sea of clacking machines.
Pete H
--
If you're always right
there's something wrong.
anon.
I have it on good authority that those monkeys are actually our elite force
of Northern Maine cops, Pete.
Cathy
Your heart is in the right place, Cathy, but don't let the sea of
furriners in on the secret. Or, as Zaphod said, soon they'll all be
wanting one.
Pete H
--
If you're always right
there's something wrong.
anon.
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| User: "Dirk Bruere at Neopax" |
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| Title: Re: Is Harry Potter's popularity a sign of the coming end of Christianity and rebirth of Paganism? |
03 Aug 2003 03:12:41 PM |
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"Peter H" <pmhilton@mfx.net> wrote in message
news:3F2D6BBA.4000905@mfx.net...
I just kind of hit the keys and run spell check.
Ah, then. That explains the multitude of monkies outside my door with an
innumerable sea of clacking machines.
And I have The One True Script!
FFF
Dirk
The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millennium
http://www.theconsensus.org
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Is Harry Potter's popularity a sign of the coming end of Christianity and rebirth of Paganism? |
03 Aug 2003 04:51:07 PM |
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On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 12:43:54 -0500, Jeremy Martin wrote:
("Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com>):
On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 02:00:38 -0500, Jeremy Martin wrote:
("towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>):
Jeremy Martin wrote:
("towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>):
Apollonius wrote:
After all,
Christian fantasy writers like C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien
drew on themes of magic, witches and wizards.
Isn't that an redundancy?
Nah. In fantasy terms, I can draw a big distinction between what I
think of when it comes to all three of those items.
I was referring to the term "Christian fantasy writers". Sorry, should
have made that more clear.
I cannot read, so it's okay.
You mean you've been fooling us all this time???
I just kind of hit the keys and run spell check.
That's one amazing spell check...
--
Mark K. Bilbo #1423 EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
________________________________________________________________
"...lying is central to the survival of nations and to the
success of great enterprises, because if our enemies can
count on the reliability of everything you say, your
vulnerability is enormously increased."
- Michael Ledeen, neo-con leader
.
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| User: "Jeremy Martin" |
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| Title: Re: Is Harry Potter's popularity a sign of the coming end of Christianity and rebirth of Paganism? |
03 Aug 2003 05:21:44 PM |
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("Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com>):
That's one amazing spell check...
Mark, baby, not in public.
--
Jeremy Martin
I have an aa number, but I'd have to look it up.
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Is Harry Potter's popularity a sign of the coming end of Christianity and rebirth of Paganism? |
03 Aug 2003 09:28:08 PM |
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On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 17:21:44 -0500, Jeremy Martin wrote:
("Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com>):
That's one amazing spell check...
Mark, baby, not in public.
I'm sorry but you were waving it at me...
--
Mark K. Bilbo #1423 EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
________________________________________________________________
"...lying is central to the survival of nations and to the
success of great enterprises, because if our enemies can
count on the reliability of everything you say, your
vulnerability is enormously increased."
- Michael Ledeen, neo-con leader
.
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| User: "Peter H" |
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| Title: Re: Is Harry Potter's popularity a sign of the coming end of Christianityand rebirth of Paganism? |
03 Aug 2003 05:50:11 PM |
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Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 12:43:54 -0500, Jeremy Martin wrote:
("Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com>):
On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 02:00:38 -0500, Jeremy Martin wrote:
("towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>):
I cannot read, so it's okay.
You mean you've been fooling us all this time???
I just kind of hit the keys and run spell check.
That's one amazing spell check...
Probably not from Redomnd, WA, eh?
Pete H
--
If you're always right
there's something wrong.
anon.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Is Harry Potter's popularity a sign of the coming end of Christianity and rebirth of Paganism? |
03 Aug 2003 09:28:40 PM |
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On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 18:50:11 -0400, Peter H wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 12:43:54 -0500, Jeremy Martin wrote:
("Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com>):
On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 02:00:38 -0500, Jeremy Martin wrote:
("towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>):
I cannot read, so it's okay.
You mean you've been fooling us all this time???
I just kind of hit the keys and run spell check.
That's one amazing spell check...
Probably not from Redomnd, WA, eh?
Surely not.
But that might explain georgann...
--
Mark K. Bilbo #1423 EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
________________________________________________________________
"...lying is central to the survival of nations and to the
success of great enterprises, because if our enemies can
count on the reliability of everything you say, your
vulnerability is enormously increased."
- Michael Ledeen, neo-con leader
.
|
|
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| User: "towelie" |
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| Title: Re: Is Harry Potter's popularity a sign of the coming end of Christianity and rebirth of Paganism? |
03 Aug 2003 10:05:03 AM |
|
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Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 02:00:38 -0500, Jeremy Martin wrote:
("towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>):
Jeremy Martin wrote:
("towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>):
Apollonius wrote:
After all,
Christian fantasy writers like C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien
drew on themes of magic, witches and wizards.
Isn't that an redundancy?
Nah. In fantasy terms, I can draw a big distinction between what I
think of when it comes to all three of those items.
I was referring to the term "Christian fantasy writers". Sorry,
should have made that more clear.
I cannot read, so it's okay.
You mean you've been fooling us all this time???
I can't read either. It's an Arkansas thing, you wouldn't understand.
--
aa #2133
apatriot #19
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Harry Potter's popularity a sign of the coming end of Christianity and rebirth of Paganism? |
03 Aug 2003 04:50:47 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 10:05:03 -0500, towelie wrote:
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 02:00:38 -0500, Jeremy Martin wrote:
("towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>):
Jeremy Martin wrote:
("towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com>):
Apollonius wrote:
After all,
Christian fantasy writers like C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien
drew on themes of magic, witches and wizards.
Isn't that an redundancy?
Nah. In fantasy terms, I can draw a big distinction between what I
think of when it comes to all three of those items.
I was referring to the term "Christian fantasy writers". Sorry,
should have made that more clear.
I cannot read, so it's okay.
You mean you've been fooling us all this time???
I can't read either. It's an Arkansas thing, you wouldn't understand.
This would explain a lot. See, both my brothers were born in Arkansas...
--
Mark K. Bilbo #1423 EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
________________________________________________________________
"...lying is central to the survival of nations and to the
success of great enterprises, because if our enemies can
count on the reliability of everything you say, your
vulnerability is enormously increased."
- Michael Ledeen, neo-con leader
.
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| User: "Peter H" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Harry Potter's popularity a sign of the coming end of Christianityand rebirth of Paganism? |
03 Aug 2003 03:06:14 PM |
|
|
towelie wrote:
I was referring to the term "Christian fantasy writers".
Isn't that a redundancy is many cases?
Pete H
--
If you're always right
there's something wrong.
anon.
.
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| User: "Jette Goldie" |
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| Title: Re: Is Harry Potter's popularity a sign of the coming end of Christianity and rebirth of Paganism? |
03 Aug 2003 03:39:29 PM |
|
|
"Peter H" <pmhilton@mfx.net> wrote in message
news:3F2D6B36.5080108@mfx.net...
towelie wrote:
I was referring to the term "Christian fantasy writers".
Isn't that a redundancy is many cases?
Not all writers are Christian - no matter which genre they
write in.
--
Jette
jette@blueyonder.co.uk
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
The difference between men and boys
is the cost of their toys"
.
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| User: "Peter H" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Harry Potter's popularity a sign of the coming end of Christianityand rebirth of Paganism? |
03 Aug 2003 05:52:57 PM |
|
|
Jette Goldie wrote:
"Peter H" <pmhilton@mfx.net> wrote in message
news:3F2D6B36.5080108@mfx.net...
towelie wrote:
I was referring to the term "Christian fantasy writers".
Isn't that a redundancy is many cases?
Not all writers are Christian - no matter which genre they
write in.
I meant 'tother way 'round. Isn't most of so-called Christan writing
fantasy? Excepting, perhaps Thomas Merton? (A good deal that was indeed
fantasy writing, i.e. John of Patmos, etc.)
Pete H
--
If you're always right
there's something wrong.
anon.
.
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| User: "Sams the Man" |
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| Title: Re: Is Harry Potter's popularity a sign of the coming end of Christianity and rebirth of Paganism? |
05 Aug 2003 05:27:46 PM |
|
|
"towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<bgk54e$pb7lt$1@ID-138129.news.uni-berlin.de>...
Peter H wrote:
towelie wrote:
I was referring to the term "Christian fantasy writers".
Isn't that a redundancy is many cases?
Yes, because Christianity is a fantasy.
thanks for giving us the benefit of your beliefs.
.
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| User: "Peter H" |
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| Title: Re: Is Harry Potter's popularity a sign of the coming end of Christianityand rebirth of Paganism? |
05 Aug 2003 07:24:42 PM |
|
|
Sam's the Man wrote:
"towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<bgk54e$pb7lt$1@ID-138129.news.uni-berlin.de>...
Yes, because Christianity is a fantasy.
thanks for giving us the benefit of your beliefs.
Well, the responder gives one belief, anyway. As to whether another
person might derive benefit or not....
Lazarus Long (Robert Heinlein's fictional alter ego) observed, "One
man's theology is another man's belly laugh." Although the observation
was offered tongue-in-cheek, I find merit in it.
Pete H
--
If you're always right
there's something wrong.
anon.
.
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| User: "coyotes rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Harry Potter's popularity a sign of the coming end of Christianity and rebirth of Paganism? |
05 Aug 2003 09:52:58 PM |
|
|
In article <3F304ACA.7050402@mfx.net>, Peter H <pmhilton@mfx.net> wrote:
Sam's the Man wrote:
"towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<bgk54e$pb7lt$1@ID-138129.news.uni-berlin.de>...
Yes, because Christianity is a fantasy.
thanks for giving us the benefit of your beliefs.
Well, the responder gives one belief, anyway. As to whether another
person might derive benefit or not....
Lazarus Long (Robert Heinlein's fictional alter ego) observed, "One
man's theology is another man's belly laugh." Although the observation
was offered tongue-in-cheek, I find merit in it.
you should see some of the rubbish net atheists purport to be logic
in support of their religion
dont know whether to laugh at sillines
or mourn the stupidity
.
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|
|
| User: "Julie" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Harry Potter's popularity a sign of the coming end of Christianity and rebirth of Paganism? |
11 Aug 2003 05:52:11 AM |
|
|
"Robert Carnegie" <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote in message news:Wh8uEUAV2KM$EwFe@redjac.demon.co.uk...
In article <mair_fheal-0508031952580001@c98.ppp.tsoft.com>,
coyotes rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
<mair_fheal@yahoo.com> writes
In article <3F304ACA.7050402@mfx.net>, Peter H <pmhilton@mfx.net>
wrote:
Sam's the Man wrote:
"towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<bgk54e$pb7lt$1@ID-138129.news.uni-berlin.de>...
Yes, because Christianity is a fantasy.
thanks for giving us the benefit of your beliefs.
Well, the responder gives one belief, anyway. As to whether another
person might derive benefit or not....
Lazarus Long (Robert Heinlein's fictional alter ego) observed, "One
man's theology is another man's belly laugh." Although the observation
was offered tongue-in-cheek, I find merit in it.
you should see some of the rubbish net atheists purport to be logic
in support of their religion
dont know whether to laugh at sillines
or mourn the stupidity
If we're talking about paradoxes and logical loose ends, most of
those that exist in an atheist world-view also exist in a world-view
including God - except that God supposedly holds all the loose
ends behind his back so you can't see them. Things like "What
happened before the beginning of the universe".
That is, the questions that in atheism don't have good answers, in
Christianity are questions that you aren't allowed even to ask
because then you'll go to Hell, because no good Christian would
ask that question.
As a child I asked where Cain got his wife from if Adam and Eve had only had Cain and Abel and then Cain slew able , then went out
into the wilderness and found himself a wife..... my Sunday School teachers could not answer me other than to repeat that he went
out into the wilderness and found himself a wife. Thus from about 8 onwards I have quested for the answers that satisfy my feelings
for spirituality.
Remember that the christian bible says that you must enter the kingdom of god as a child would. As a mother of two I can tell you
that no child enters much of anything without questions being asked. Therefore IMHO God doesn't mind us asking questions, just the
church minds.
And in summation, I would like to say that none of the above, nor my infanite love of life, and love of God in no way diminishes my
ability to enjoy some very fine books......and a good story such as Harry Potter, and in no way stops me from suspecting that
somewhere in world there really is a Hogwarts and that they missed sending me the letter because my witchy powers were missing that
day....
Julie
.
|
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| User: "Bertie the Bunyip" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Harry Potter's popularity a sign of the coming end of Christianity and rebirth of Paganism? |
11 Aug 2003 05:55:41 AM |
|
|
"Julie" <gangoolie@hotkey.net.au> wrote in
news:3f377561_1@news.iprimus.com.au:
"Robert Carnegie" <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote in message
news:Wh8uEUAV2KM$EwFe@redjac.demon.co.uk...
In article <mair_fheal-0508031952580001@c98.ppp.tsoft.com>,
coyotes rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges
<mair_fheal@yahoo.com> writes
In article <3F304ACA.7050402@mfx.net>, Peter H <pmhilton@mfx.net>
wrote:
Sam's the Man wrote:
"towelie" <bugoNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<bgk54e$pb7lt$1@ID-138129.news.uni-berlin.de>...
Yes, because Christianity is a fantasy.
thanks for giving us the benefit of your beliefs.
Well, the responder gives one belief, anyway. As to whether
another person might derive benefit or not....
Lazarus Long (Robert Heinlein's fictional alter ego) observed,
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." Although the
observation was offered tongue-in-cheek, I find merit in it.
you should see some of the rubbish net atheists purport to be logic
in support of their religion
dont know whether to laugh at sillines
or mourn the stupidity
If we're talking about paradoxes and logical loose ends, most of
those that exist in an atheist world-view also exist in a world-view
including God - except that God supposedly holds all the loose
ends behind his back so you can't see them. Things like "What
happened before the beginning of the universe".
That is, the questions that in atheism don't have good answers, in
Christianity are questions that you aren't allowed even to ask
because then you'll go to Hell, because no good Christian would
ask that question.
As a child I asked where Cain got his wife from if Adam and Eve had
only had Cain and Abel and then Cain slew able , then went out into
the wilderness and found himself a wife..... my Sunday School teachers
could not answer me other than to repeat that he went out into the
wilderness and found himself a wife. Thus from about 8 onwards I have
quested for the answers that satisfy my feelings for spirituality.
I can see why you felt the need to turn to a comic book, then.
Bertie
.
|
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|
| User: "Karl Johanson" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Harry Potter's popularity a sign of the coming end of Christianity and rebirth of Paganism? |
26 Aug 2003 05:12:44 PM |
|
|
"Julie" <gangoolie@hotkey.net.au> wrote in message
news:3f377561_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
As a child I asked where Cain got his wife from if Adam and Eve had only
had Cain and Abel and then Cain slew able , then went out
into the wilderness and found himself a wife..... my Sunday School
teachers could not answer me other than to repeat that he went
out into the wilderness and found himself a wife. Thus from about 8
onwards I have quested for the answers that satisfy my feelings
for spirituality.
I find that the answer to question such as that sometimes involve other
people yelling, calling the asker bad names, lots of frowns and foot
stomping, and sometimes throwing the playing cards all over the room.
Remember that the christian bible says that you must enter the kingdom
of god as a child would. As a mother of two I can tell you
that no child enters much of anything without questions being asked.
Therefore IMHO God doesn't mind us asking questions, just the
church minds.
If there was a god, and you could ask of it one question, what would it be?
("How could I word another question in such a way that you'd allow me to ask
as many questions as I want?")
And in summation, I would like to say that none of the above, nor my
infanite love of life, and love of God in no way diminishes my
ability to enjoy some very fine books......and a good story such as Harry
Potter, and in no way stops me from suspecting that
somewhere in world there really is a Hogwarts and that they missed sending
me the letter because my witchy powers were missing that day....
Karl Johanson
.
|
|
|
| User: "Karl Johanson" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Harry Potter's popularity a sign of the coming end of Christianity and rebirth of Paganism? |
27 Aug 2003 01:36:34 PM |
|
|
"Bill Westfield" <billw@cypher.cisco.com> wrote in message
news:54he43qzr2.fsf@cypher.cisco.com...
Harry Potter's world's wizards are so inherently ... secular that I'm not
sure how it can be objected to on a religious basis. I mean, there are no
gods, angels, demons, or even mysticism in HP.
They celebrate Christmas, Easter & the eve of All Saints day.
There is no belief system
involved at all, as far as I can tell. JR stays well away from religous
issues such as where magic might come from. It makes Diane Duane's
"wizardry" books look positively preachy. Magic in the HP world seems to
be
a purely mechanical effect, understood by the wizards perhaps as well as
the
average alchemist might have understood "chemistry."
I would think that would put it in the same class of "danger to (my
religion)" as any number of novels of various genre that fail to mention
religion in any way whatsoever...
Karl Johanson
.
|
|
|
| User: "Donald Shepherd" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Harry Potter's popularity a sign of the coming end of Christianity and rebirth of Paganism? |
27 Aug 2003 06:20:17 PM |
|
|
"Karl Johanson" <karljohanson@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:<SS63b.48215$la.810221@news1.calgary.shaw.ca>...
"Bill Westfield" <billw@cypher.cisco.com> wrote in message
news:54he43qzr2.fsf@cypher.cisco.com...
Harry Potter's world's wizards are so inherently ... secular that I'm not
sure how it can be objected to on a religious basis. I mean, there are no
gods, angels, demons, or even mysticism in HP.
They celebrate Christmas, Easter & the eve of All Saints day.
As do millions of other secular or non-practicing "Muggles"
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Is Harry Potter's popularity a sign of the coming end of Christianityand rebirth of Paganism? |
27 Aug 2003 02:24:53 PM |
|
|
Karl Johanson wrote:
"Bill Westfield" <billw@cypher.cisco.com> wrote in message
news:54he43qzr2.fsf@cypher.cisco.com...
Harry Potter's world's wizards are so inherently ... secular that I'm not
sure how it can be objected to on a religious basis. I mean, there are no
gods, angels, demons, or even mysticism in HP.
They celebrate Christmas, Easter & the eve of All Saints day.
Yes, but only in the secular aspects of the holidays like giving
presents and having a feast.
--
Fred Stone
Conquering the Galaxy since 2003
.
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| User: "Tom McCafferty" |
|
| Title: This makes me think that witch burning is still alive. |
27 Aug 2003 12:43:11 AM |
|
|
After all to some, Jews should still be gassed, black should still be slaves,
native Americans should still be treated like General Custer intended.
Some believe witches should still burn?
I found that stuff, below from this link, ----->
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/sermons/witches.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The United States of America is a Christian Nation. Sure, we've got some other
religions here, but after seeing the cross go up at the site of the World Trade
Center, it is clear that they don't matter. The Christian God is going to win
the war on those pig-hating, towel-headed, cavemen over there in Afghanistan
because people like you and me are praying and working on bringing this nation
back to Jesus! You don't see a star of David or the moon of Islam or fat Buddha
setting on that wreckage! It's the Christian cross! Praise Jesus!
Taking recent events into consideration, we have steeped up security in our
communities here at Landover. Our country clubs, restaurants, retirement
centers, Christian shopping malls, University, stadiums, airports, and churches
here in Freehold Iowa are all on red-alert until further notice. We are not
going to let Lucifer squirm under any gate, crawl out of any toilet, camp in
any closet, back yard shed or mind of any member of this congregation. And that
includes the children. Oh yes! Satan wants your children, folks! And his
birthday is coming up on October 31st, so you have to be even more cautious! I
want all the young people here today to listen very carefully to what I am
about to say. I don't want there to be any confusion or complaints from anyone
in this congregation when you hear a knock on your door and learn that Church
Security officers have come to take your child away from you. I don't want any
tears to fall from your eyes when you find your child returned to you without a
tongue, or if he or she is missing an ear or a hand or a few fingers. If you
can't see that the music your child is listening to, or the books that they are
reading or the food that they are eating, and even the very air that they
breathe, in some cases, is infected with the manure of demons, then you outta
be taken out in the street and whipped! Living on this glorious campus is a
privilege! And we reserve the right to revoke that privilege to any or all of
our 150,000 plus church members at a moment's notice if we find that your
children are caught up in Wicca or reading Harry Potter Books, or watching
Nickelodeon - any of it! We're tired of it all!
It's been 20 years since we legally executed a witch on this campus, but our
lawyers are working very hard with the Federal Government to ensure that we can
continue to practice our religion the way the Bible tells us to. Exodus 22:18
says, "Suffer not a witch to live." Deuteronomy 18:10 says, "There shall not be
found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the
fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a
witch." God is very clear here, folks, he doesn't want witches (or as they call
themselves today, 'Wiccans') to live. We are supposed to be killing witches! If
we don't, we are disobeying God. Jesus would weep tears of joy if He leaned
down off His cloud and sniffed up the burning flesh of a witch this Halloween.
Wouldn't that ruin Satan's little birthday party! Praise God! It's just a shame
that the United States Government has placed restrictions on the
Biblically-mandated practice of witch burning. Now we have to waste taxpayers
money to have old Mrs. Delaney sit out in our jail for practicing witchcraft.
She had poor little Christian girls coming into her house to get cured of their
colds! Did you know how she did it? She was putting toads in their mouths and
transferring the sickness into those vile creatures! After the toads crawled
out from between the sweet lips of those precious children of God, their little
frog snouts would be sneezing so loud it would wake a demon! It's witchcraft!
And it happened right here under our noses, at the last real Christian church
in America! That cackling old ***** would even make it rain every time she gave
her cat a bath! That devil's harlot has no business breathing the same
Christian air we breathe, yet we have to keep her alive in our own jail until
the "so-called" Federal Government allows us to burn her at the stake. You
wouldn't believe the paperwork required to make something like that happen
today. But it will happen. People in America are getting serious about God
again. They are starting to read the Bible again, and starting to come around.
The only way we can win the war on terrorism, folks, is to destroy the terror
of liberalism and evil that exists inside this Christian Nation. It starts with
the children. It starts at home. It might be something as simple as organizing
a Harry Potter book burning, or placing your child's hands on a hot stove if
you catch them masturbating. It could even be a simple gesture, like shipping
your 11-year-old son off to military school, or cutting off part of your
daughter's ear for listening to N'Sync. We've got to get back to God, folks!
We've got to do it fast, and we don't have time to worry about nonsense like
"human rights violations!" Jesus, Please allow us to legally do what you tell
us to do in that precious Book your Daddy wrote!
.
|
|
|
| User: "Tom McCafferty" |
|
| Title: Re: This makes me think that witch burning is still alive. Did't thinkthis thread still here. |
12 Sep 2003 08:29:46 PM |
|
|
--------------B19E7B5E50E1EE6DA9CBE540
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
DoWhatThouWilt32 wrote:
Tom McCafferty <burnaby2celista@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3F4C448F.FF7A96A4@hotmail.com>...
After all to some, Jews should still be gassed, black should still be slaves,
native Americans should still be treated like General Custer intended.
Some believe witches should still burn?
I found that stuff, below from this link, ----->
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/sermons/witches.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The United States of America is a Christian Nation. Sure, we've got some other
religions here, but after seeing the cross go up at the site of the World Trade
Center, it is clear that they don't matter. The Christian God is going to win
the war on those pig-hating, towel-headed, cavemen over there in Afghanistan
because people like you and me are praying and working on bringing this nation
back to Jesus! You don't see a star of David or the moon of Islam or fat Buddha
setting on that wreckage! It's the Christian cross! Praise Jesus!
Taking recent events into consideration, we have steeped up security in our
communities here at Landover. Our country clubs, restaurants, retirement
centers, Christian shopping malls, University, stadiums, airports, and churches
here in Freehold Iowa are all on red-alert until further notice. We are not
going to let Lucifer squirm under any gate, crawl out of any toilet, camp in
any closet, back yard shed or mind of any member of this congregation. And that
includes the children. Oh yes! Satan wants your children, folks! And his
birthday is coming up on October 31st, so you have to be even more cautious! I
want all the young people here today to listen very carefully to what I am
about to say. I don't want there to be any confusion or complaints from anyone
in this congregation when you hear a knock on your door and learn that Church
Security officers have come to take your child away from you. I don't want any
tears to fall from your eyes when you find your child returned to you without a
tongue, or if he or she is missing an ear or a hand or a few fingers. If you
can't see that the music your child is listening to, or the books that they are
reading or the food that they are eating, and even the very air that they
breathe, in some cases, is infected with the manure of demons, then you outta
be taken out in the street and whipped! Living on this glorious campus is a
privilege! And we reserve the right to revoke that privilege to any or all of
our 150,000 plus church members at a moment's notice if we find that your
children are caught up in Wicca or reading Harry Potter Books, or watching
Nickelodeon - any of it! We're tired of it all!
It's been 20 years since we legally executed a witch on this campus, but our
lawyers are working very hard with the Federal Government to ensure that we can
continue to practice our religion the way the Bible tells us to. Exodus 22:18
says, "Suffer not a witch to live." Deuteronomy 18:10 says, "There shall not be
found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the
fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a
witch." God is very clear here, folks, he doesn't want witches (or as they call
themselves today, 'Wiccans') to live. We are supposed to be killing witches! If
we don't, we are disobeying God. Jesus would weep tears of joy if He leaned
down off His cloud and sniffed up the burning flesh of a witch this Halloween.
Wouldn't that ruin Satan's little birthday party! Praise God! It's just a shame
that the United States Government has placed restrictions on the
Biblically-mandated practice of witch burning. Now we have to waste taxpayers
money to have old Mrs. Delaney sit out in our jail for practicing witchcraft.
She had poor little Christian girls coming into her house to get cured of their
colds! Did you know how she did it? She was putting toads in their mouths and
transferring the sickness into those vile creatures! After the toads crawled
out from between the sweet lips of those precious children of God, their little
frog snouts would be sneezing so loud it would wake a demon! It's witchcraft!
And it happened right here under our noses, at the last real Christian church
in America! That cackling old ***** would even make it rain every time she gave
her cat a bath! That devil's harlot has no business breathing the same
Christian air we breathe, yet we have to keep her alive in our own jail until
the "so-called" Federal Government allows us to burn her at the stake. You
wouldn't believe the paperwork required to make something like that happen
today. But it will happen. People in America are getting serious about God
again. They are starting to read the Bible again, and starting to come around.
The only way we can win the war on terrorism, folks, is to destroy the terror
of liberalism and evil that exists inside this Christian Nation. It starts with
the children. It starts at home. It might be something as simple as organizing
a Harry Potter book burning, or placing your child's hands on a hot stove if
you catch them masturbating. It could even be a simple gesture, like shipping
your 11-year-old son off to military school, or cutting off part of your
daughter's ear for listening to N'Sync. We've got to get back to God, folks!
We've got to do it fast, and we don't have time to worry about nonsense like
"human rights violations!" Jesus, Please allow us to legally do what you tell
us to do in that precious Book your Daddy wrote!
I checked out the website above and read the full article Tom, its the
most vilest, hateful piece of shite Ive ever had the misfortune to
read, and I've read a lot of right-wing religious drivel in my time.
Thanks for bringing it to our attention mate. I've never heard of the
pastor or the organisation, but their obvioulsly a bunch of
self-righteous, retarded bunch of sick fuckers who are desperately
trying to start some religious right-wing revolution. And idiots
like these people are allowed to breed?
I did not think this thread was still here. but, like I said, After all to some, Jews should still be
gassed, black should still be slaves,
native Americans should still be treated like General Custer intended.
Some believe witches should still burn?
Nazis still exist who would gas Jews, as do "southernmen," who still like whipping blacks, and cowboys
who still like to shoot Indians..
I think some Christians would still like to burn witches.
--------------B19E7B5E50E1EE6DA9CBE540
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<html>
<p>DoWhatThouWilt32 wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>Tom McCafferty <burnaby2celista@hotmail.com> wrote
in message news:<3F4C448F.FF7A96A4@hotmail.com>...
<br><font color="#0C35FF">> After all to some, Jews should still be gassed,
black should still be slaves,</font>
<br><font color="#0C35FF">> native Americans should still be treated like
General Custer intended.</font>
<br><font color="#FF0A1A">></font>
<br><font color="#FF0A1A">> Some believe witches should still burn?</font>
<br>>
<br>> I found that stuff, below from this link, ----->
<br>> <a href="http://www.landoverbaptist.org/sermons/witches.html">http://www.landoverbaptist.org/sermons/witches.html</a>
<br>>
<br>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
<br>> The United States of America is a Christian Nation. Sure, we've got
some other
<br>> religions here, but after seeing the cross go up at the site of the
World Trade
<br>> Center, it is clear that they don't matter. The Christian God is
going to win
<br>> the war on those pig-hating, towel-headed, cavemen over there in
Afghanistan
<br>> because people like you and me are praying and working on bringing
this nation
<br>> back to Jesus! You don't see a star of David or the moon of Islam
or fat Buddha
<br>> setting on that wreckage! It's the Christian cross! Praise Jesus!
<br>>
<br>> Taking recent events into consideration, we have steeped up security
in our
<br>> communities here at Landover. Our country clubs, restaurants, retirement
<br>> centers, Christian shopping malls, University, stadiums, airports,
and churches
<br>> here in Freehold Iowa are all on red-alert until further notice.
We are not
<br>> going to let Lucifer squirm under any gate, crawl out of any toilet,
camp in
<br>> any closet, back yard shed or mind of any member of this congregation.
And that
<br>> includes the children. Oh yes! Satan wants your children, folks!
And his
<br>> birthday is coming up on October 31st, so you have to be even more
cautious! I
<br>> want all the young people here today to listen very carefully to
what I am
<br>> about to say. I don't want there to be any confusion or complaints
from anyone
<br>> in this congregation when you hear a knock on your door and learn
that Church
<br>> Security officers have come to take your child away from you. I don't
want any
<br>> tears to fall from your eyes when you find your child returned to
you without a
<br>> tongue, or if he or she is missing an ear or a hand or a few fingers.
If you
<br>> can't see that the music your child is listening to, or the books
that they are
<br>> reading or the food that they are eating, and even the very air that
they
<br>> breathe, in some cases, is infected with the manure of demons, then
you outta
<br>> be taken out in the street and whipped! Living on this glorious campus
is a
<br>> privilege! And we reserve the right to revoke that privilege to any
or all of
<br>> our 150,000 plus church members at a moment's notice if we find that
your
<br>> children are caught up in Wicca or reading Harry Potter Books, or
watching
<br>> Nickelodeon - any of it! We're tired of it all!
<br>>
<br>> It's been 20 years since we legally executed a witch on this campus,
but our
<br>> lawyers are working very hard with the Federal Government to ensure
that we can
<br>> continue to practice our religion the way the Bible tells us to.
Exodus 22:18
<br>> says, "Suffer not a witch to live." Deuteronomy 18:10 says, "There
shall not be
<br>> found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass
through the
<br>> fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter,
or a
<br>> witch." God is very clear here, folks, he doesn't want witches (or
as they call
<br>> themselves today, 'Wiccans') to live. We are supposed to be killing
witches! If
<br>> we don't, we are disobeying God. Jesus would weep tears of joy if
He leaned
<br>> down off His cloud and sniffed up the burning flesh of a witch this
Halloween.
<br>> Wouldn't that ruin Satan's little birthday party! Praise God! It's
just a shame
<br>> that the United States Government has placed restrictions on the
<br>> Biblically-mandated practice of witch burning. Now we have to waste
taxpayers
<br>> money to have old Mrs. Delaney sit out in our jail for practicing
witchcraft.
<br>> She had poor little Christian girls coming into her house to get
cured of their
<br>> colds! Did you know how she did it? She was putting toads in their
mouths and
<br>> transferring the sickness into those vile creatures! After the toads
crawled
<br>> out from between the sweet lips of those precious children of God,
their little
<br>> frog snouts would be sneezing so loud it would wake a demon! It's
witchcraft!
<br>> And it happened right here under our noses, at the last real Christian
church
<br>> in America! That cackling old ***** would even make it rain every
time she gave
<br>> her cat a bath! That devil's harlot has no business breathing the
same
<br>> Christian air we breathe, yet we have to keep her alive in our own
jail until
<br>> the "so-called" Federal Government allows us to burn her at the stake.
You
<br>> wouldn't believe the paperwork required to make something like that
happen
<br>> today. But it will happen. People in America are getting serious
about God
<br>> again. They are starting to read the Bible again, and starting to
come around.
<br>>
<br>> The only way we can win the war on terrorism, folks, is to destroy
the terror
<br>> of liberalism and evil that exists inside this Christian Nation.
It starts with
<br>> the children. It starts at home. It might be something as simple
as organizing
<br>> a Harry Potter book burning, or placing your child's hands on a hot
stove if
<br>> you catch them masturbating. It could even be a simple gesture, like
shipping
<br>> your 11-year-old son off to military school, or cutting off part
of your
<br>> daughter's ear for listening to N'Sync. We've got to get back to
God, folks!
<br>> We've got to do it fast, and we don't have time to worry about nonsense
like
<br>> "human rights violations!" Jesus, Please allow us to legally do what
you tell
<br>> us to do in that precious Book your Daddy wrote!
<p>I checked out the website above and read the full article Tom, its the
<br>most vilest, hateful piece of shite Ive ever had the misfortune to
<br>read, and I've read a lot of right-wing religious drivel in my time.
<br>Thanks for bringing it to our attention mate. I've never heard
of the
<br>pastor or the organisation, but their obvioulsly a bunch of
<br>self-righteous, retarded bunch of sick fuckers who are desperately
<br>trying to start some religious right-wing revolution. And
idiots
<br>like these people are allowed to breed?</blockquote>
<p><br>I did not think this thread was still here. but, like I said,
<font color="#0C35FF">After all to some, Jews should still be gassed, black
should still be slaves,</font>
<br><font color="#0C35FF">native Americans should still be treated like
General Custer intended.</font>
<br><font color="#FF0A1A">Some believe witches should still burn?</font>
<p>Nazis still exist who would gas Jews, as do "southernmen," who still
like whipping blacks, and cowboys who still like to shoot Indians..
<br>I think some Christians would still like to burn witches.
<br> </html>
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| User: "coyotes rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges" |
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| Title: Re: This makes me think that witch burning is still alive. Did't think this thread still here. |
12 Sep 2003 08:47:39 PM |
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Nazis still exist who would gas Jews, as do "southernmen," who still
like whipping blacks, and cowboys
who still like to shoot Indians..
I think some Christians would still like to burn witches.
gosh durn christians
http://lcweb.loc.gov/exhibits/archives/ae2bkhun.html
Copy To Comrade Molotov
Top Secret For members of the Politburo
Please make no copies for any reason. Each
member of the Politburo (incl. Comrade Kalinin)
should comment directly on the document.
Lenin.
-
-
-
Send to Shuia one of the most energetic, clear-headed, and
capable members of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee
[VTsIK] or some other representative of the central government
(one is better than several), giving him verbal instructions through
one of the members of the Politburo. The instructions must come
down to this, that in Shuia he must arrest more if possible but not
less than several dozen representatives of the local clergy, the local
petty bourgeoisie, and the local bourgeoisie on suspicion of direct
or indirect participation in the forcible resistance to the decree of
the VTsIK on the removal of property of value from churches.
Immediately upon completion of this task, he must return to
Moscow and personally deliver a report to the full session of the
Politburo or to two specially authorized members of the Politburo.
On the basis of this report, the Politburo will give a detailed
directive to the judicial authorities, also verbal, that the trial of the
insurrectionists from Shuia, for opposing aid to the starving, should
be carried out in utmost haste and should end not other than with
the shooting of the very largest number of the most influential and
dangerous of the Black Hundreds in Shuia, and, if possible, not
only in this city but even in Moscow and several other ecclesiastical
centers.
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| User: "Andrew Plotkin" |
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| Title: Re: This makes me think that witch burning is still alive. Did't think this thread still here. |
12 Sep 2003 09:27:44 PM |
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In rec.arts.sf.written, coyotes rand mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges <mair_fheal@yahoo.com> wrote:
gosh durn christians
Please do not crosspost replies to the religion trolls. If you want
to argue with them, please pick a single newsgroup. Thanks.
Followups reduced.
--Z
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
* Make your vote count. Get your vote counted.
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| User: "Paul Ciszek" |
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| Title: Re: This makes me think that witch burning is still alive. Did't thinkthis thread still here. |
12 Sep 2003 09:43:27 PM |
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In article <3F6272A3.E2BB7A60@hotmail.com>,
Tom McCafferty <burnaby2celista@hotmail.com> wrote:
Nazis still exist who would gas Jews, as do "s | | | | | | | | | |
