Is Homosexuality Unnatural?

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"sharon"
Date:	29 Nov 2003 12:11:25 AM
Object:	Is Homosexuality Unnatural?

A Christian Wrote against my article located at:
Was the Wickedness of Sodom Homosexuality?
http://www.christainfaith.com/articles/knew_know.html

Just because there is more than one meaning to a single word does not mean

that you can exclude one meaning. In basic English the word know/knew has
more than one meaning. I can know understand/comprehend) or I can know (be
acquainted with) one referring to a situation the other to a person.

Any excuse/attempt to try to justify homosexuality will in the end fall

flat on it's face, homesexuality is totally unnatural and against God's
order of things.
---------
What our friend is overlooking, is that her reasoning falls flat on its face
when put under scrutiny. Homosexuality is totally unnatural and against
God's order of things? Okay...
Slavery is condoned in the Bible. That's part of God's order of things I am
to assume.
Pulygamy is condoned in the Bible. That too is a part of God's order of
things.
Concubinage is condoned in the Bible. We are to also assume that it is a
part of God's order of things.
As for homosexual behavior being "unnatural"... let us take a look at that.
http://cornellcollege.edu/psychology/cours..._research.shtml
Homosexual behavior has been observed in barnyard animals (bulls, cows,
stallions, donkeys, cats, rams goats, pigs), 18 species in captivity
(including rats, antelope, elephants, hyenas, monkeys, apes, rabbits, lions,
porcupines, hamsters, mice, porpoises). For example, two female macaque
monkeys were observed giving each other orgasms. Homosexual behavior has
also been observed in several species in the wild-- anolis lizards, mountain
sheep, seagulls, langurs, bonobo chimpanzees.
See book on reserve in the library, starting p.99, for info and photos on
homosexuality in bonobos: De Waal, F. (1997). Bonobo: The forgotten ape.
Berkeley: University of California Press. Weinrich, J. D. (1982). Is
homosexuality biological natural? In W. Paul, J. D. Weinrich, J. C.
Gonsiorek, & M. E. Hotvedt (Eds.), Homosexuality: Social, psychological, and
biological issues. Beverly Hills, CA: Sage.
.

User: "Glenn"
Title: Re: Is Homosexuality Unnatural?	02 Dec 2003 06:55:50 PM

"sharon" <*...@....com> wrote in message news:<8c3e506162a73e0b9e7e80722bcb8262@news.secureusenet.com>...
[snip]

When the next virus comes after heterosexuals,

[snip]
Just a minor quibble with your otherwise fine post: HIV *has* "come
after" heterosexuals, and has killed many, many more of them than it
has homosexuals. That is why the self-righteous Religious Wrong like
to avoid global statistics when advancing their "theories" about AIDS
being a gay disease.
GlennGlenn
dipthotdipthot@yahoo.yahoo.com.com
.

User: "Gregory Gadow"
Title: Re: Is Homosexuality Unnatural?	03 Dec 2003 08:09:12 AM

Glenn wrote:

"sharon" <*...@....com> wrote in message news:<8c3e506162a73e0b9e7e80722bcb8262@news.secureusenet.com>...

[snip]

When the next virus comes after heterosexuals,

[snip]

Just a minor quibble with your otherwise fine post: HIV *has* "come
after" heterosexuals, and has killed many, many more of them than it
has homosexuals. That is why the self-righteous Religious Wrong like
to avoid global statistics when advancing their "theories" about AIDS
being a gay disease.

"Like to?" They have no choice: world wide, HIV is predominantly a heterosexually transmitted disease.
<fundy>
But that is all in third world countries like South Africa, Kenya, Burma and Thailand. If God gave a rat's
***** about the people there, He would have made the people there all rich, white Christians, so they don't
count.
</fundy>
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"If you make yourself a sheep, the wolves will eat you."
-- Benjamin Franklin
.

User: "sharon"
Title: Re: Is Homosexuality Unnatural?	04 Dec 2003 06:37:59 PM

Jorge Cu�llar <hariomtat@....com> wrote:

Otherwise,just a question...how could primitive jewish accept the
homosexualism as a common path of life...indeed, this concept appeared on

the

XIX century.
Its interesting to me find these answers... thanks

The Hebrews were very interested in their flocks and herds. As it was in
earlier times, right here in America, the more children one had = more
farmhands.
This might help to further explain why homosexuality was so hotly condemned.
The ancient people worshipped "gods of fertility".
I just completed an article today on a similar subject... tree worship which
was tightly related to fertility worship. (Notice the tree which Baal is
holding in his hand, and as it is known he was a god of fertility amongst
other things.)
The Tree of Life and Ancient Tree Worship
http://www.christainhistory.com/articles/tree_of_life.html
Ancient Cultures had great reverence for Agricultural products. Read about
these ancient Trees of life, knowledge, and mystical fruit.
.

User: "The Mad Doctor"
Title: Re: Is Homosexuality Unnatural?	01 Dec 2003 09:39:45 PM

On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 18:58:07 GMT, "sharon" <*...@....com> wrote:

"Gregory Gadow" <techbear@serv.net> wrote in message
news:3FCB5FE7.4AD310D7@serv.net...

sharon wrote:

As for homosexual behavior being "unnatural"... let us take a look at

that.

http://cornellcollege.edu/psychology/cours..._research.shtml

Homosexual behavior has been observed in barnyard animals (bulls, cows,
stallions, donkeys, cats, rams goats, pigs), 18 species in captivity
(including rats, antelope, elephants, hyenas, monkeys, apes, rabbits,

lions,

porcupines, hamsters, mice, porpoises). For example, two female macaque
monkeys were observed giving each other orgasms. Homosexual behavior has
also been observed in several species in the wild-- anolis lizards,

mountain

sheep, seagulls, langurs, bonobo chimpanzees.

Actually, homosexuality has been documented in some 450 species. In 2000,

Bruce

Bagemihl published "Biological Exuberance", a meta-study covering

naturalists'

field observations reaching almost 200 years in to the past. While

meta-studies

(a research project that uses raw data collected from past studies) are
notoriously difficult, even people who strongly contest Bagemihl's

findings can

not find fault with his methodology. In other words, other naturalists and
biologists have peer-reviewed his work and found it to be a sound,

accurate

piece of scholarship, in direct contrast to the "work" of NARAL and other
"change" ministries and pseudo-research conglomerates. I highly recommend

the

book, it is pretty readable.

Thanks for that information... last night I noticed this argument was posted
in alt.bible "HIV infections soar among gays!"

It's rather depressing about this argument "God punishing them for being
homosexual"...

The approproate response to that ill-onformed statement is....
If HIV is punishment for being gay, why is the lowest infection rate
found in lesbians.
GK

It's not about being homosexual, it's about how deadly some bacteria can be,
and another killer plague could pop up, or some lunatic mix up some
biological concoction in a laboratory, and wipe out countless millions...
I'm not afraid of homosexuals, I'm afraid of these killer bacteria.

If that happens, God isn't going to be the one who stops the bacteria from
wiping out the populations... the responsibility with be on some researcher
in a laboratory.

----- Original Message -----
From: "galia" <galia@jims.com>
Newsgroups: alt.bible,alt.homosexual
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2003 9:29 PM
Subject: HIV infections soar among gays!

HIV infections soar among gays

By Joyce Howard Price
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

New cases of HIV, which causes AIDS, jumped sharply among
homosexual men in the United States from 1999 to 2002, the federal
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported yesterday.
The number of new infections climbed 17 percent for homosexual men
in this period, compared with 7.3 percent for all men, the study
revealed. It was published in the CDC's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly
Report.

The Black Plague soared among whites, wiping out about 1/4 of the
population. I guess it's a sin to be a honky, and that was God's punishment
on man for being a European.

Will the Black Plague haunt humanity again?
... disease. The Black Plague killed hundreds of millions of people,
at its high-day ridding Europe of a quarter of its population. ...
www.xs4all.nl/~mke/virus.htm

and good christians said God had it in for the Native American as well.
(homosexuals are in good company, and not so different from everyone else,
after all.)

http://www.christainhistory.com/articles/intolerance.html
On average two thirds of the native population were killed by
colonist-imported smallpox before violence began. This was a great sign of
"the marvelous goodness and providence of God" to the Christians of course,
e.g. the Governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony wrote in 1634, as "for the
natives, they are near all dead of the smallpox, so as the Lord hath cleared
our title to what we possess."

Although none of the settlers would have survived winter without native
help, they soon set out to expel and exterminate the Indians. Warfare among
(north American) Indians was rather harmless, in comparison to European
standards, and was meant to avenge insults rather than conquer land. In the
words of some of the pilgrim fathers: "Their Wars are far less bloody," so
that there usually was "no great slaughter of either side." Indeed, "They
might fight seven years and not kill seven men." What is more, the Indians
usually spared women and children.

--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear

"If you make yourself a sheep, the wolves will eat you."
-- Benjamin Franklin

User: "Gregory Gadow"
Title: Re: Is Homosexuality Unnatural?	01 Dec 2003 02:00:13 PM

sharon wrote:

"Gregory Gadow" <techbear@serv.net> wrote in message
news:3FCB5FE7.4AD310D7@serv.net...

sharon wrote:

As for homosexual behavior being "unnatural"... let us take a look at

that.

lions,

mountain

sheep, seagulls, langurs, bonobo chimpanzees.

Actually, homosexuality has been documented in some 450 species. In 2000,

Bruce

Bagemihl published "Biological Exuberance", a meta-study covering

naturalists'

field observations reaching almost 200 years in to the past. While

meta-studies

(a research project that uses raw data collected from past studies) are
notoriously difficult, even people who strongly contest Bagemihl's

findings can

not find fault with his methodology. In other words, other naturalists and
biologists have peer-reviewed his work and found it to be a sound,

accurate

piece of scholarship, in direct contrast to the "work" of NARAL and other
"change" ministries and pseudo-research conglomerates. I highly recommend

the

book, it is pretty readable.

Thanks for that information... last night I noticed this argument was posted
in alt.bible "HIV infections soar among gays!"

Only in the United States. In most of the rest of the world, HIV is almost
exclusively a heterosexual disease. Also, the fastest growing group with HIV in
America is black women, who are seeing new cases at a significantly faster rate
than gay men.

It's rather depressing about this argument "God punishing them for being
homosexual"...

It's not about being homosexual, it's about how deadly some bacteria can be,
and another killer plague could pop up, or some lunatic mix up some
biological concoction in a laboratory, and wipe out countless millions...
I'm not afraid of homosexuals, I'm afraid of these killer bacteria.

It is a virus, not a bacteria. The difference is very important, as bacterial
infections are very easy to treat and cure. Viral infections, especially
retroviruses like HIV which write themselves in to the genome, can be
particularly difficult to eradicate (ie there is currently no known way.)
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"If you make yourself a sheep, the wolves will eat you."
-- Benjamin Franklin
.

User: "sharon"
Title: Re: Is Homosexuality Unnatural?	01 Dec 2003 02:19:35 PM

"Gregory Gadow" <techbear@serv.net> wrote in message
news:3FCB9DCD.CFCE30E4@serv.net...

sharon wrote:

"Gregory Gadow" <techbear@serv.net> wrote in message
news:3FCB5FE7.4AD310D7@serv.net...

sharon wrote:

As for homosexual behavior being "unnatural"... let us take a look

that.

http://cornellcollege.edu/psychology/cours..._research.shtml

Homosexual behavior has been observed in barnyard animals (bulls,

cows,

stallions, donkeys, cats, rams goats, pigs), 18 species in captivity
(including rats, antelope, elephants, hyenas, monkeys, apes,

rabbits,

lions,

porcupines, hamsters, mice, porpoises). For example, two female

macaque

monkeys were observed giving each other orgasms. Homosexual behavior

has

also been observed in several species in the wild-- anolis lizards,

mountain

sheep, seagulls, langurs, bonobo chimpanzees.

Actually, homosexuality has been documented in some 450 species. In

2000,

Bruce

Bagemihl published "Biological Exuberance", a meta-study covering

naturalists'

field observations reaching almost 200 years in to the past. While

meta-studies

(a research project that uses raw data collected from past studies)

are

notoriously difficult, even people who strongly contest Bagemihl's

findings can

not find fault with his methodology. In other words, other naturalists

and

biologists have peer-reviewed his work and found it to be a sound,

accurate

piece of scholarship, in direct contrast to the "work" of NARAL and

other

"change" ministries and pseudo-research conglomerates. I highly

recommend

the

book, it is pretty readable.

Thanks for that information... last night I noticed this argument was

posted

in alt.bible "HIV infections soar among gays!"

Only in the United States. In most of the rest of the world, HIV is almost
exclusively a heterosexual disease. Also, the fastest growing group with

HIV in

America is black women, who are seeing new cases at a significantly faster

rate

than gay men.

It's bad when anyone gets HIV/AIDS, I had a cousin who died from AIDS, and
he was a good person... he died a brutal death, and what makes it worse was
the dehumanizing gossip going on around about him. What the church and
racists do, is when they see a particular group of people getting sick,
dying from this merciless disease, instead of being concerned for their
fellow man --- as a true humanist should be (as Jesus is suppose to teach to
do) --- they stand back pointing fingers, which group "God(TM(as one guy put
it) has it in for. Sounds like the same old superstitious hysteria of
ancient times, when a tribe would see a volcano erupting "Ug the fire god is
angry... we have upset Ug..." So they blame somebody, for god's wrath...
they sacrificed little girls to their superstitions. Same thing, different
century... start pointing fingers and blame them for being gay... blame them
for being a different race... the only sin I see, is their superstition and
hatred for their fellow man. (More to do with blatant ignorance).

It's rather depressing about this argument "God punishing them for being
homosexual"...

It's not about being homosexual, it's about how deadly some bacteria can

be,

and another killer plague could pop up, or some lunatic mix up some
biological concoction in a laboratory, and wipe out countless

millions...

I'm not afraid of homosexuals, I'm afraid of these killer bacteria.

It is a virus, not a bacteria. The difference is very important, as

bacterial

infections are very easy to treat and cure. Viral infections, especially
retroviruses like HIV which write themselves in to the genome, can be
particularly difficult to eradicate (ie there is currently no known way.)
--

*laughs* The point was there... little microscopic buggies.
yeah, I have kids, and the doc told me, there's nothing you can do about a
virus.. except to wait it out (they've been warning a lot on the news and
documentaries, about the over-prescribing of antibiotics, which can't do
anything about a virus, which is also a health problem... i.e., all the
anti-bacterial detergents people use, and it's harming their ability to
develop their immunity... I avoid antibiotics when I can, and I don't use
anti-bacterial soap anymore.)
I'm not certified in biology -- but the point was there.
I'll try to remember not to call HIV a bacteria in the future, it's a virus.
:)

Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear

"If you make yourself a sheep, the wolves will eat you."
-- Benjamin Franklin

User: "sharon"
Title: Re: Is Homosexuality Unnatural?	01 Dec 2003 02:48:29 PM

Sharon writes:

"Gregory Gadow" <techbear@serv.net> wrote in message

news:3FCB9DCD.CFCE30E4@serv.net...

Viral infections, especially
retroviruses like HIV which write themselves in to the genome, can be
particularly difficult to eradicate (ie there is currently no known

way.)

*laughs* The point was there... little microscopic buggies.

Just an off-topic thought --- all those who are filled with hysterical fears
of "invaders from Mars"... alien abductions... UFOs coming to get us... I
think we have far more to fear from innerspace, than outerspace.
.

User: "Gregory Gadow"
Title: Re: Is Homosexuality Unnatural?	01 Dec 2003 04:04:13 PM

sharon wrote:

Sharon writes:

"Gregory Gadow" <techbear@serv.net> wrote in message

news:3FCB9DCD.CFCE30E4@serv.net...

Viral infections, especially
retroviruses like HIV which write themselves in to the genome, can be
particularly difficult to eradicate (ie there is currently no known

way.)

*laughs* The point was there... little microscopic buggies.

That would be the space between the ears of the Current Regime, yes?
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"If you make yourself a sheep, the wolves will eat you."
-- Benjamin Franklin
.

User: "sharon"
Title: Re: Is Homosexuality Unnatural?	01 Dec 2003 05:28:40 PM

"Gregory Gadow" <techbear@serv.net> wrote in message
news:3FCBBADD.E8C3460F@serv.net...

sharon wrote:

Sharon writes:

"Gregory Gadow" <techbear@serv.net> wrote in message

news:3FCB9DCD.CFCE30E4@serv.net...

Viral infections, especially
retroviruses like HIV which write themselves in to the genome, can

particularly difficult to eradicate (ie there is currently no known

way.)

*laughs* The point was there... little microscopic buggies.

Just an off-topic thought --- all those who are filled with hysterical

fears

of "invaders from Mars"... alien abductions... UFOs coming to get us...

think we have far more to fear from innerspace, than outerspace.

That would be the space between the ears of the Current Regime, yes?
--

my buddy (info-news-service) wrote:
I heard George Carlin recently say why he wasn't in favor of church and
state, "because either one of those institutions can ***** you up so bad, you
put them both together, you got certain death."

Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear

"If you make yourself a sheep, the wolves will eat you."
-- Benjamin Franklin

User: "Adrian Miles-Davros"
Title: Re: Is Homosexuality Unnatural?	01 Dec 2003 06:12:13 PM

"sharon" <*...@....com> wrote in message
news:84d51c8e236a9959bfb9296ee42b7d3b@news.secureusenet.com...

"Gregory Gadow" <techbear@serv.net> wrote in message
news:3FCBBADD.E8C3460F@serv.net...

sharon wrote:

Sharon writes:

"Gregory Gadow" <techbear@serv.net> wrote in message

news:3FCB9DCD.CFCE30E4@serv.net...

Viral infections, especially
retroviruses like HIV which write themselves in to the genome, can

be > > > > > particularly difficult to eradicate (ie there is currently no

known > > > way.)

*laughs* The point was there... little microscopic buggies.

Just an off-topic thought --- all those who are filled with hysterical

fears > > > of "invaders from Mars"... alien abductions... UFOs coming to

get us... > I

think we have far more to fear from innerspace, than outerspace.

I don't think it's off topic, especially when you consider the innerspace
completely filled with the bogeymen of superstition and myth using the bible
as an excuse to drag us back into the dark ages.

That would be the space between the ears of the Current Regime, yes?
--

Yes them too LOL! Englands as well as yours!

my buddy (info-news-service) wrote: > I heard George Carlin recently say

why he wasn't in favor of church and

state, "because either one of those institutions can ***** you up so bad,

you > put them both together, you got certain death."

Never a truer word!
Adrian
.

User: "The Mad Doctor"
Title: Re: Is Homosexuality Unnatural?	01 Dec 2003 09:41:44 PM

On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 14:04:13 -0800, Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net>
wrote:

sharon wrote:

Sharon writes:

"Gregory Gadow" <techbear@serv.net> wrote in message

news:3FCB9DCD.CFCE30E4@serv.net...

Viral infections, especially
retroviruses like HIV which write themselves in to the genome, can be
particularly difficult to eradicate (ie there is currently no known

way.)

*laughs* The point was there... little microscopic buggies.

That would be the space between the ears of the Current Regime, yes?

I thought that was empty space.
GK
.

User: "ArWeGod"
Title: Re: Is Homosexuality Unnatural?	02 Dec 2003 05:33:45 AM

"The Mad Doctor" <sawbones@uniserve.com> wrote in message
news:3fce086e.277269427@shawnews.cg.shawcable.net...

On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 14:04:13 -0800, Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net>
wrote:

sharon wrote:

Sharon writes:

"Gregory Gadow" <techbear@serv.net> wrote in message

news:3FCB9DCD.CFCE30E4@serv.net...

Viral infections, especially
retroviruses like HIV which write themselves in to the genome, can

particularly difficult to eradicate (ie there is currently no known

way.)

*laughs* The point was there... little microscopic buggies.

Just an off-topic thought --- all those who are filled with hysterical

fears

of "invaders from Mars"... alien abductions... UFOs coming to get us...

think we have far more to fear from innerspace, than outerspace.

That would be the space between the ears of the Current Regime, yes?

I thought that was empty space.

GK

WRONG!!! You stupid motherfucking *****/***** you are completely wrong
about everything you have ever thought!
It's a vacuum.
So there.
.

User: "The Mad Doctor"
Title: Re: Is Homosexuality Unnatural?	03 Dec 2003 01:02:54 PM

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 11:33:45 GMT, "ArWeGod" <ArWeGod?@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:

"The Mad Doctor" <sawbones@uniserve.com> wrote in message
news:3fce086e.277269427@shawnews.cg.shawcable.net...

On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 14:04:13 -0800, Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net>
wrote:

sharon wrote:

Sharon writes:

"Gregory Gadow" <techbear@serv.net> wrote in message

news:3FCB9DCD.CFCE30E4@serv.net...

Viral infections, especially
retroviruses like HIV which write themselves in to the genome, can

particularly difficult to eradicate (ie there is currently no known

way.)

*laughs* The point was there... little microscopic buggies.

Just an off-topic thought --- all those who are filled with hysterical

fears

of "invaders from Mars"... alien abductions... UFOs coming to get us...

think we have far more to fear from innerspace, than outerspace.

That would be the space between the ears of the Current Regime, yes?

I thought that was empty space.

GK

WRONG!!! You stupid motherfucking *****/***** you are completely wrong
about everything you have ever thought!

It's a vacuum.

That sucks...
GK

So there.

User: "stoney"
Title: Re: Is Homosexuality Unnatural?	04 Dec 2003 01:38:22 PM

On Tue, 02 Dec 2003 03:41:44 GMT,

(The Mad
Doctor), Message ID: <3fce086e.277269427@shawnews.cg.shawcable.net>
wrote in alt.atheism;

On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 14:04:13 -0800, Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net>
wrote:

sharon wrote:

Sharon writes:

"Gregory Gadow" <techbear@serv.net> wrote in message

news:3FCB9DCD.CFCE30E4@serv.net...

Viral infections, especially
retroviruses like HIV which write themselves in to the genome, can be
particularly difficult to eradicate (ie there is currently no known

way.)

*laughs* The point was there... little microscopic buggies.

That would be the space between the ears of the Current Regime, yes?

I thought that was empty space.

Dark Matter?

Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
/end humour alert
alt.atheism military veteran #11
{so much for the 'no atheists in foxholes' rubbish}
.

User: "sharon"
Title: Re: Is Homosexuality Unnatural?	01 Dec 2003 07:01:46 PM

This email was just sent through to me from Ed Babinski
---------------------------------------------
The Testimony of Rev. Mel White (a homosexual Christian who ghost wrote
books for Jerry Falwell, Billy Graham, and Pat Robertson)
From
http://www.soulforce.org/main/mwbio.shtml
The Rev. Dr. Mel White has been a Christian minister, author, and
filmmaker all his adult life. Raised as a evangelical Christian, taught
that homosexuality was a sin, he fought to overcome his own homosexual
orientation for decades in all ways available to him: prayer,
psychotherapy, exorcism, electric shock, marriage and family. That
struggle and his halting, poignant steps to understand and accept his
homosexuality, reconcile it with his Christian faith, and express his
sexuality respectfully and responsibly, are described in his book
"Stranger at the Gate: To Be Gay and Christian in America," published in
1994.
In 1993, he came out publicly when he was installed as dean at the Dallas
Cathedral of Hope of the Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community
Churches (UFMCC). He announced during his first sermon, "I am gay. I am
proud. And God loves me without reservation."
Mel White founded Soulforce Inc. this year with his partner, Gary Nixon.
Though Soulforce was established recently, Mel White has been developing
his work with soul force principles for many years.
He was dismayed by the increasing confrontational tone on both sides the
homosexual issue, and the hateful words and actions that increased the
divide. Inspired by the nonviolence movements of Gandhi and Martin Luther
King Jr., White developed a program based on their principles. These
principles were called satyagraha or "soul force" by Gandhi, who based
many of them on the teachings of Jesus, and White adopted them to address
the suffering of lesbians, gays, bisexuals, and transgendered people.
During his six years with UFMCC, he traveled across the country constantly
to minister to those impacted by prejudice and hatred against gays and to
campaign for civil rights, theological reconsideration, and social
acceptance for sexual minorities. His work has resulted in his being
arrested on the White House steps during a hunger strike protesting the
'Defense of Marriage Act.' He was also arrested for protesting the Rev.
Pat Robertson's virulent anti-gay rhetoric. (After a weeks-long hunger
strike in jail, White was visited by Robertson, who promised to avoid
inaccuracies and inflammatory language.)
In 1997, the Rev. Dr. Mel White was awarded the ACLU's National Civil
Liberties Award for his efforts to apply the "soul force" principles of
Gandhi and King to the struggle for justice for sexual minorities.
With his experience in theology and media, White is uniquely qualified for
his justice ministry. He did graduate work in communications and film at
University of Southern California, received his doctorate and was a
professor at Fuller Theological Seminary for over a decade. During this
time he also worked as an evangelical pastor. He produced, wrote, and
directed 53 documentary films and television specials, focusing on stories
to inspire and inform the struggle to be human. He is also an author;
among his 16 books (nine bestsellers), he wrote about the Philippines'
Ninoy and Corazon Aquino ("Aquino"), the Jonestown tragedy ("Deceived"),
David Rothenberg, the child burned by his father ("David") and talk-show
host/producer Mike Douglas ("When the Going Gets Tough").
In addition, he ghost wrote several books for fellow evangelicals,
including Billy Graham ("Approaching Hoofbeats"), Pat Robertson
("America's Date with Destiny"), Jim Bakker, and Jerry Falwell ("If I
Should Die Before I Wake" and "Strength for the Journey"). In all those
writings, however, he never wrote against homosexuality. White began
coming out privately and gradually during the same period that the
religious right stepped up its anti-gay rhetoric. Since 1993, he has
devoted himself full-time to minister to lesbians, gays, bisexuals, and
the transgendered and to work on their behalf in the media, in the
political process, and with fellow religious leaders.
--------------
I have a gay friend I've know since I was in Seminary in 1976 who has
served as a Christian missionary in Africa for over twenty years. He is
now back in the United States and is pasturing a large church. He has
never been married. When I asked (I'll use the name "John Doe") about his
sexual nature within Christianity, he said he does not want "to be like
this" and has been to a number of churches to be spiritually healed, but
no matter how hard he tries, nothing has ever change for him. He has been
sexually active.
My Question is: A: How is God able to let John minister in Africa for
over 20 years and "bear fruit" in the Christian ministry?
B: Why does God not change John (if homosexuality is just a sin) when he
has been prayed over and counseled in several churches? The fact he came
to these churches for help proves he wants / wanted to change. He has
told me such himself.
C: If God does indeed dislike gay ministers, than why does He (God) call
gay people (Such as John) into the ministry by letting them be a
missionary for over 20 years and now a full time pastor (To says God
"didn't really call him begs the question)? If God does disapproves of
John than why is his ministry in a large well know non-gay church
"blessed" (I base this "blessed" on the fact that he gets larger Churches
with each "Calling" / move)?
In the theocracy of the Hebrew Bible, Israel could simply kill this type
of individual and not have to deal with such a problem, but how does
Christianity face such facts as I have listed above? I don't think
Christianity is as simple as the Apostle Paul often wanted it to be Romans.
Sincerely,
Harry McCall [McCall's testimony is in LEAVING THE FOLD, McCall attended
both Bob Jones University in S.C. and then, Columbia seminary in Georgia
before leaving the fold]
-----------
Subject: Web Sites on Ex-Gay Issue & Heartstrong
From their site:
1) "HeartStrong, Inc., exists to provide truthful information and support
to gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered and allied persons who have
attended, are attending, employed by, or associated with conservative
religious educational institutions through support, education, and
advocacy.
HeartStrong, Inc., is a non-sectarian outreach established to provide
educational resources, compassion and understanding to GLBT and allied
persons adversely affected by the influence of conservative religious
educational institutions."
Also: "A personal note from Marc Adams
Thank you for visiting our website. This site is just a part of our
efforts to reach out to those of us who are or have attended conservative
religious schools and colleges who struggle with being gay, lesbian,
bisexual or transgendered (GLBT).
We started our outreach efforts after coming to terms with our own
struggles with being gay and coming from hard-core Baptist fundamentalism.
Todd is a former fundamentalist Baptist minister and I grew up as the son
of a fundamentalist Baptist minister.
Because we were once students at conservative religious schools, we know
what it is like to struggle to survive. Especially when you struggle with
feeling that you may be gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgendered.
We know what it is like to feel the pressure to be like everyone else. We
know what it feels like to hide all of your feelings and hope that no one
notices anything about you that might make them think you are struggling
with this. We know what it is like to feel so lonely and discouraged that
it doesn't seem like life is worth living.
We also know that struggling with this and being at a conservative
religious school means that you may have to deal with someone outing you
to the deans and we know what they can make you do. We know it is not easy
and we know about the pain. That is why we are here.
We want you and everyone who will ever be in these schools to know that
they are not alone. No matter how dark it gets, no matter how much pain
there is inside, and no matter what they make you do, there is hope, love
and peace in life. And we want to help you find it."
I have heard Marc & Todd last Fridayat a church. They were very good. I
picked up some of their stuff!
They want to speak before both large & small groups.One of Todd's
publications is "Fundamentally Speaking: Fundamentalist Chriistianity's
Segregation of America". That's one of the things I bought. Both of them
have a tape of their stories, and Marc is the author of "The Preacher's
Son". I read it- a really good book. Marc has some poetry in print also!
http://www.heartstrong.org/
2) "Jeffry G. Ford, MA, Licensed Psychologist is a 1983 graduate of St.
Mary's University in Winona, MN where he received his master's degree. He
received his undergraduate training from both the University of Northern
Colorado, Greeley, CO and Bethel College, Arden Hills, MN. He is also
licensed as a Marriage and Family Therapist and an Independent Clinical
Social Worker. He is the owner and director of Associated Resources In
Psychology, PA in Roseville, MN where he maintains a private therapy and
consulting practice.
Engaging and credible, Ford is a nationally known consultant and speaker
on gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender issues. He and his partner were
featured on the nationally syndicated PBS television show In The Life. He
has been interviewed for articles appearing in the Minneapolis Star
Tribune and St. Paul Pioneer Press newspapers as well as Lavendar and
Genre magazine and numerous other gay and religious publications. Twin
Cities television and radio news media frequently turn to Ford as a
consultant on GLBT related issues.
He has specialized in addressing the complexities involved with the
anti-gay theory known as Reparative Therapy which purports to prevent and
cure homosexuality. He speaks from experience as one who studied and
practiced reparative therapy for years. Because of his personal and
professional experience,
Ford is able to offer accurate answers and powerful insight. He provides
useful skills and tools to challenge the dangerous use of pseudo
scientific theories like "reparative therapy" and other discrediited
methods. He was formerly the executive director of OUTPOST an "ex-gay"
ministry located in Minneapolis, MN. For almost 1 years Jeff claimed to
be a "former homosexual". His story, along with the stories of twelve
other "ex-ex-gays" is featured in the recently published volume Finally
Free compiled by the Washington DC based Human Rights Campaign. "
http://jgford.homestead.com/
---------------
Testimony of a homosexual evangelical Christian
From
http://t-e-n.org/TestTodd.htm
In 1992, one year of getting to know each other over the telephone, Jose
Sanchez and I entered into a relationship together. I still remember
calling my dad and telling him that I had found a mate. He told me he had
been praying that God would send me a mate, although that wasn't what he
had in mind. I then told him along with this mate came two children. Dad
then proceeded in telling me he had also been praying that God would give
him some grandkids in California. Although that wasn't what he had in mind
either, he accepted Jose, Jose Jr., Frankie, and myself with loving and
open arms.
Our pastor had been on the TEN council up until his resignation in 1994.
At that time I stepped in to fill his term and was then elected to
continue on after that. I have been involved with The Evangelical Network
since that point and in February 1997 was elected to serve as the
President of the Network. I am truly humbled by the decision of my peers
to fill this position. In many ways I have felt so inadequate for the
position, but have received so much encouragement from those within the
organization. I think back to a time I spent in prayer with God one night
while swimming alone in the pool at my apartment complex. I looked up and
the sky was filled with stars. I told God I wanted to be nothing more than
a vessel that He could use. I asked Him to give me that desire and heart
to serve Him and I told Him I would do that in whatever capacity He chose.
I'm blown away and truly humbled at the doors He has opened for me to
minister and I never want to lose that attitude.
Most of my family know about my life now, not that all accept it. But that
is OK, because my life I live for Christ not for anyone here on earth. I
don't expect some to understand or accept, I realize that is just how some
people are going to be. But I praise God that I have the peace to accept
them and love them where they are at, acceptance or not.
This letter is my testimony. I hope that in some way it has helped you get
to know me and also helped you see how God is working in the lives of His
gay/lesbian Children. This letter doesn't end here, but it will continue
to grow as God continues to give me life .
--------------
Two founders of Exodus International fell in love with each other
From Refuting Information and Recommendations of Organizations of the
Religious Right
http://www.mtn.org/~cpcsm/programs_refuting.htm
Exodus International (an evangelical Christian ministry that specialized
in "turning gays straight") attracted media attention in 1978 when two of
its founders, Gary Cooper and Michael Busee, left the ministry after
falling in love with each other. Together they went on the talk show
circuit in the early 1990s to tell their story. Busee and Cooper
repeatedly called ex-gay ministries a fraud that promote homophobia and
self-hatred. They told stories of people who went through the Exodus
program and had emotional breakdowns or committed suicide. After
interacting with hundreds of people, Busee and Cooper said they hadn't met
one person who successfully changed their sexual orientation from gay to
straight.
---------------
http://www.startribune.com/viewers/qview/cgi/qview.cgi?story=84372225&templa
te=natworld_a_cache
Presbyterian Church votes to allow gay clergy (so long as they remain
chaste and single): "'I never thought I would see this day,' said the Rev.
Tammy Lindahl of Minneapolis, who came out in 1990 and left the ministry.
'But now, for the first time, I feel that I might be able to return to my
call to ministry.'
----------
This is a link on the http://www.fallwell.com/
http://www.southernvoice.com/southernvoice/news/record.html?record=10262
Ex-gay leader confronted in gay bar
by Joel Lawson
Thursday, 21 September 2
A prominent ex-gay leader once featured as "going straight" on the cover
of Newsweek magazine was confronted and photographed by activists Tuesday
night patronizing a gay bar in Washington, D.C.
John Paulk was the subject of an attempt to photograph him inside Mr. P's,
a gay bar in Washington, DC. Paulk is shown inside the bar, then exiting
quickly after a confrontation with activists.
John Paulk, board chair for the umbrella ex-gay group Exodus
International, admitted in an interview with Southern Voice that he was in
Mr. P's, a gay bar in Washington's DuPont Circle neighborhood, but said
his only intention was to use the bathroom.
A gay man who works for the Human Rights Campaign, a national gay
political group, was at the bar on Tuesday night, recognized Paulk, and
immediately called Wayne Besen, HRC's associate director of
communications. Besen, who recently authored an HRC report on the ex-gay
movement, rushed over to Mr. P's, camera in hand, and confronted Paulk.
Paulk is well known not just for the Newsweek cover story on him and his
wife Anne, a self-described ex-lesbian, but also dozens of advertisements
placed in mainstream newspapers trumpeting "conversion" to heterosexuality
through prayer.
[That comment is simplistic, BTW. It is more than prayer-Harry's note]
Author of "Not Afraid to Change; The Remarkable Story of How One Man
Overcame Homosexuality," Paulk is also on staff with Focus on the Family,
where he manages the organization's Homosexuality and Gender Department.
Daryl Herschaft, an HRC staffer, first spotted Paulk in the bar at
approximately 1 p.m. "He walked in and sat at the bar," Herschaft said. "I
recognized him almost immediately, but I wanted to be absolutely sure, so
I called Wayne." Herschaft also called another HRC colleague, Ryan
Obermiller, a merchandise assistant for the organization.
While waiting for his colleagues to arrive, Herschaft engaged the man he
believed to be Paulk in conversation. According to Herschaft, the bar
patron identified himself as "John" and later said he "was from Colorado
Springs, Colo."
"I asked him if he was gay," Herschaft recalled, "and he said 'yes.'"
Herschaft then asked "John" his last name. "He said his last name was
'Clint,' but he wanted to know why I was asking. He became evasive, but he
was good at it, he was very calm."
After the other HRC staffers arrived at the gay bar, they too recognized
the man as Paulk.
"I walk in, and right there at the front bar, I see John Paulk, I was
floored," Besen said. Obermiller also said he immediately recognized the
man as Paulk.
Paulk acknowledged in an interview with Southern Voice on Wednesday that
he was present at Mr. P's on Tuesday night.
"I was walking around DuPont [Circle], and I needed to use the bathroom,
so I walked in, but I did not know Mr. P's was a gay bar," Paulk said.
"Once I was inside, I thought, 'Oh, this is a gay bar, and I probably
shouldn't be in here.'"
Mr. P's is well known to Washingtonians as the city's longest standing gay
bar, operating in the same location since 1976. The bar is located in a
block with several establishments offering public restrooms, including two
major hotels, a coffee shop, and a number of restaurants.
With its dark exterior, including a small tinted window, Mr. Ps offers a
foreboding appearance reminiscent of gay bars of the 197s, compared to the
brightly-lit hotels and restaurants that line P Street.
"I thought I'll go in and go to the bathroom," Paulk said. "I wandered
back, thinking it was weird to be in a gay bar again. I got a glass of
water, sat down and chatted with patrons, including a gentleman who was
married." Paulk said he had not been inside a gay bar since 1987.
Besen said his intention was to confront and photograph Paulk in the gay
bar. In his role at HRC, Besen has led the group's effort to counter the
"ex-gay" ministries, which claim the ability to convert gays and lesbians
back to heterosexuality. Just last month, Besen personally assisted an
ex-gay spokesman in making a public statement that repudiated "ex-gay"
ministries.
Paulk said he was in the gay bar "only 2 minutes," primarily to use a
bathroom. Yet Herschaft said Paulk was in the bar "at least 4 minutes" and
socialized with a number of men during that time, including "speaking
intimately with one man."
Paulk denied encountering Besen until he exited the bar. Besen disagreed
and provided a photo of Paulk inside the gay bar.
In an interview Tuesday night, the bouncer at Mr. P's, Robert Rosa,
confirmed that Paulk encountered Besen inside the bar. Rosa confronted
Besen as he attempted to photograph Paulk, enforcing bar policy
prohibiting photographs inside the establishment.
Paulk said that after the confrontation with Besen, he exited the
establishment out of fear for his life.
"He came to me and said he was being pursued, and asked if there was
another exit other than the front door," said John Mako, owner of Mr. P's.
Herschaft recalled Paulk as calm until the encounter with Besen. "He was
smiling, laughing, and socializing," Herschaft said. "He offered to buy me
a drink."
"Until I tried to photograph him, I would say he was having a gay old
time," Besen said. "I didn't know that using the bathroom involved 4
minutes of socializing in a bar and offering drinks to strangers."
Besen managed to capture one image of Paulk before being evicted by the
bar's bouncer. The image shows Paulk turning away from the camera, as
another member of the bar staff attempts to intercept Besen, entering the
frame at the right. The second image shows Paulk walking away from Besen,
after having exited the establishment.
Besen said he tried to explain to the bar staff why he was taking Paulk's
photo.
"I was yelling to the bar staff, 'Do you know who this is?'", said Besen.
"The staff ushered me out of the bar. I tried to take another picture, but
couldn't. The staff kept blocking me. Paulk was hunched down while trying
to cover his face."
The bar's security guard, Robert Rosa, confirmed Besen's account of the
confrontation. "I told him [Besen] he had to leave, that he couldn't take
pictures inside the bar" Rosa said. "But he could wait outside and take
pictures of the guy out there."
Paulk said he was in Washington, DC to attend a meeting, but declined to
identify the meeting other than as "a pro-family meeting with conservative
representatives."
Paulk first rose to prominence in 1998 with his appearance on the cover of
Newsweek, the release of his book that same year, and in numerous media
appearances in which he claimed to be "ex gay." Paulk's story was also
featured on "Oprah" and CBS's "6 Minutes," among other programs.
That same year, Paulk was featured prominently in the debut of an
unprecedented national advertising campaign produced by a coalition of
conservative religious groups and ex-gay ministries. The full-page ads,
which ran in major national newspapers, featured Paulk, other ex-gays, and
football player Reggie White, an outspoken critic of homosexuality.
"I want to make it clear that there was no sexual, homosexual intention of
any kind," Paulk said of his experience in Mr. P's. "That was not my
intention. Focus on the Family is supportive of me and I have the support
of my wife Anne, who I love very much."
Paulk's Exodus International cites about 1 ministries in 35 states, as
well as Latin America, the South Pacific and Europe. Two of Exodus'
founders, Gary Cooper and Michael Bussee, left their wives for each other
in 1979, and remained together until Cooper died of AIDS several years ago.
Besen said he made an impassioned plea to Paulk in a phone conversation
Wednesday afternoon to abandon the ex-gay ministries.
"I asked him to think of the closeted gay kids who have contemplated
suicide because of what he does," Besen said. "I told him the game was up,
that they had no credibility left."
________________________________________________________________________
The Ex-Files: Ex-Gay Caught in Gay Bar- PlanetOut
This one has points & topics not inb the first
http://aol.planetout.com/pno/people/features/2000/06/exgay/
THE ARTICLE:
They have been lampooned on Will and Grace, ridiculed throughout the gay
community, and condemned by virtually all mainstream mental health
organizations. But for thousands of "ex-gays," turning away from
homosexuality is very serious business.
On September 19, however, the credibility of the movement suffered an
enormous blow. One of the most prominent "ex-gays," John Paulk, was
spotted at a gay bar in Washington, D.C. allegedly having a drink and
fraternizing with other patrons. (Paulk claims that he was simply using
the bathroom.) The Colorado Gazette reported that Paulk might lose his job
as chairman of the "ex-gay" group Exodus International. Just three months
before his spotting, he had talked to PlanetOut about his experiences as a
"recovered"
homosexual and the solidity of his marriage and family.
Even if Paulk's foray into a gay bar seems like irrefutable proof that
conversion therapy doesn't work, there will undoubtedly remain a large
number of "ex-gays" who maintain that they have changed. There is, of
course, no universally applicable "ex-gay" story, but many "recovering"
homosexuals -- at least in America -- share similar experiences and
beliefs. Deeply religious, they feel trapped between their same-sex
desires and their deep-seated feeling that homosexuality is unnatural and
wrong. Despite
having struggled to reconcile the two competing interests for years, they
have come to the conclusion that being gay is simply not an option in
their lives. So they must either resign themselves to lives of celibacy or
work to transform themselves into heterosexuals.
Can Sexuality Be Changed?
There are hundreds of ministries throughout the country that offer varying
approaches to sexual conversion. Most combine prayer, group therapy, and
individual counseling into residential or drop-in programs that often last
many years. Their governing theory is that homosexuality is not primarily
inborn, but rather results from a combination of early-childhood
experiences and traumas. Among these are sexual abuse, an overdeveloped
relationship with the opposite-sex parent, ridicule from peers, and --
above all -- an insufficient bond with the same-sex parent. These factors
lead one to sexualize members of the same gender. But if, through therapy,
one "repairs" this damage and recognizes the roots of one's homosexuality,
these same-sex desires eventually go away.
Or so the theory goes. But most experts disagree. The American Psychiatric
Association, which removed homosexuality from its list of mental disorders
27 years ago, recently cancelled a debate on the effectiveness of
"reparative" therapy and suggested that performing such therapy might be
unethical. Last year, the American Psychological Association officially
declared such therapy "scientifically ineffective and possibly harmful,"
according to the Chicago Tribune. And on July 24, the Human Rights
Campaign released a new report on the psychological dangers of ex-gay
therapy.
Ex-Ex-Gay
There is a sizeable "ex-ex-gay" community consisting of people who have
tried to alter their sexuality but concluded that it was not possible.
While numbers are difficult to come by, even the ex-gay ministries concede
that probably less than a third of people who enter the programs are
"successful" -- and even fewer end up in long-term straight relationships.
Some "ex-gays" do end up married. Paulk, the "ex-gay" who was just caught
in the gay bar, is a former drag queen who is now married (to a former
lesbian) with two kids. "What I have with my wife is so solid. We're best
friends, and I love her so much. I have a solid family, and I wouldn't
give that up for anything," he told PlanetOut in June. "That's what brings
me the joy that I have."
Even before the most recent twist in Paulk's strange story became public,
most gay people were extremely skeptical that such relationships
represented anything other than the repression of true desires. (In a
Newsweek poll, only 11 percent believed therapy could alter sexual
orientation.) And many who have been through the therapy themselves
believe that it does more harm than good because it reinforces negative
self-perceptions. "I saw devastating consequences," said Jallen Rix, who
spent a year and a half trying to change his orientation and now lives as an
openly gay man. And
though most "ex-gay" ministries are ostensibly non-political, conservative
religious organizations opposed to gay rights have paid for ad campaigns
touting conversion therapy and "successfully" recovered homosexuals.
But "ex-gays" themselves have a different perspective. "The gay community
may not understand ex-gays. They may think we're internally homophobic.
But we have had legitimate experiences -- in the same way gay people
have," said Paulk in the June interview.
In order to bring some of these experiences to light, PlanetOut has
conducted five interviews with people who have varying perspectives on the
"ex-gay" movement. Bob Davies is the executive director of Exodus North
America, a non-denominational Christian group that refers gay men,
lesbians, and their families to conversion therapy ministries across the
country. John Smid leads "Love in Action," one of the ministries
affiliated with Exodus in Memphis, Tennessee. Ron Poindexter spent the
better part of a decade trying to become heterosexual, but now lives with
his male partner of six years in Seattle. Jallen Rix, who went to
conversion therapy for over a year, now works as an openly gay recording
artist in San Francisco. And of course there's John Paulk who continues to
maintain that he's still "ex-gay" despite the recent events.
� 1995-2 PlanetOut Corporation. All copyright & trademark rights
reserved.
----------------------------
From (1/14/1) L.A. Times:
"Del Shores, 43, the son and brother of Baptist preachers, confronts the
collision between his religious upbringing and his homosexuality in
"Southern Baptist Sissies," his most personal play so far, at the Zephyr
Theatre.
"Shores has become one of L.A.'s best-known playwrights, as well as a TV
writer for such shows as "Mr. and Mrs. Smith" and "Ned & Stacey." And
he's now openly gay.
"The play recently became the subject of a mock protest by the satirical
Web site http://www.landoverbaptist.org
which spoofs Christian fundamentalism. That "protest" has, in turn,
become the subject of a short film that may soon be on iFilm.com."---end
of quotes from article.
This short film is being stored exclusively at walkertown.com until it is
published by ifilm. Feel free to visit http://www.walkertown.com
to view 'Protesting Southern Baptist Sissies, or visit the L.A. Times
article below.
http://www.latimes.com/print/suncal/20010113/t000003715.html
---------------------
PENTECOSTAL LEADER ADMITS HOMOSEXUAL RELATIONSHIP
December 27, 21 (David Cloud, Fundamental Baptist Information Service,
MI.) - Influential Pentecostal leader Roberts Liardon is taking a
three-month leave of absence from his ministry "to seek professional and
church counseling related to a recent short-term homosexual relationship"
(Charisma News Service, Dec. 21, 21).
Liardon is pastor of Embassy Christian Center, Irvine, California,
described on the Internet as "one of the top 1 fastest growing churches in
America." The Liardon ministries also includes the Spirit Life Bible
College, a large missionary enterprise, and a very influential publishing
work.
For example, Liardon publishes the "God's Generals" video series, which
glorifies many of the pioneers of the Pentecostal movement, including
John Alexander Dowie, Maria Woodworth-Etter, Charles Parham, William
Seymore, Smith Wigglesworth, Amy Semple Mcpherson, William Branham, A.A.
Allen, Jack Coe, and Kathryn Kuhlman.
In our book The Laughing Revival from Azusa to Pentecost, we have
documented the immorality and aberrant doctrine that characterized these
people.
JOHN DOWIE, founder of a Holiness community called Zion City north of
Chicago, would not allow any medicines or doctors, believing it was
contrary to God's will; and his own daughter died an agonizing
death when she was severely burned and he wouldn't allow her to be treated
medically.
MARIA WOODWORTH-ETTER was a female Holiness preacher who often went into
trances during her meetings, standing like a statue for an hour or more.
She falsely prophesied that the San Francisco Bay area would be destroyed
by an earthquake and tidal wave in 189-.
CHARLES PARHAM, one of the founders of Pentecostalism, claimed that some
of his students spoke in biblical tongues at his Bethel Bible School in
Topeka, Kansas, in 191, but according to educated outside
witnesses, the "tongues" were only gibberish. Parham's Bible school
students jotted down strange writings which they claimed were the product
of the gift of tongues. They claimed these writings were foreign
languages, such as Chinese, but when they were examined by knowledgeable
people, they were
found to be mere indecipherable scratchings. Parham taught a wide variety
of heresies. He believed in annihilation of the unsaved and denied the
Bible doctrine of eternal torment. He believed in the unscriptural
doctrine of anglo-Israelism. He taught that there were two separate
creations, and that Adam and Eve were of a different race than people who
allegedly lived outside of the Garden of Eden. The first race of men did
not have souls, he claimed, and this race of unsouled people was destroyed
in the flood. Parham believed that those who received the latter days
spirit baptism and spoke in tongues would make up the bride of Christ and
would have a special place of authority at Christ's return. He believed in
a partial rapture composed of tongues speakers.
CHARLES SEYMOUR founded the Azusa Street mission in 196-, considered by
many to be the birthplace of the Pentecostal movement. The meetings were
weird in the extreme, characterized by slaying in the spirit, confused
singing in "tongues," rolling on the floor, dancing, jumping up and down,
trances, animal noises, jerking, people trying to speak and being unable
to do so, etc. One visitor described the meetings as "wild, hysterical
demonstrations." God's command that everything be done decently and in
order was ignored in the extreme.
AMY SEMPLE MCPHERSON, founder of the International Church of the
Foursquare Gospel, was married three times and divorced twice. In May
1926, McPherson disappeared and was thought to have been drowned while
swimming off the California coast. A month later she turned up in Mexico,
claiming to
have been kidnapped, but the evidence led most people to believe that she
had an affair with a former employee, Kenneth Ormiston, who was married at
the time. Later she bobbed her hair and started drinking, dancing, and
wearing short skirts. McPherson's mother, Mildred (Minnie) Kennedy, worked
as a business associate in her daughter's successful evangelistic empire.
In fact, they owned the Angelus Temple in Los Angeles outright, in a
fifty-fifty partnership, but they frequently got into terrific fights. In
1927 Aimee had her mother fired from the positions she had long held. Two
years later, Mildred left her daughter Aimee's ministry permanently "after
receiving a broken nose during an explosive argument."
WILLIAM BRANHAM was considered a Pentecostal healer and prophet, but he
denied the Trinity, held that Cain was the product of a sexual union
between Eve and the serpent, taught that the mark of the beast
was denominationalism, denied that hell is eternal, and proclaimed himself
as the angel of Revelation 3:14 and 1:7. He falsely prophesied that the
Rapture and the end of the world would take place by 1977. He claimed an
angel constantly told him when and what to speak. Our friend, former
Pentecostal minister Alfred H. Pohl, has testified of his firsthand
experiences working in a Braham healing crusade in Canada. None of those
who were proclaimed healed by Braham were actually healed, and many later
died.
KATHRYN KUHLMAN, famous Pentecostal preacher and faith healer, believed
that Christians today should perform the same miracles that Jesus did. In
his book Healing: A Doctor in Search of a Miracle, Dr. William Nolen
dedicates an entire chapter to his experiences investigating Kuhlman
healing crusades. Though sympathetic to Kuhlman as a person, Nolen was
unable to document medically even one case of physical healing, though
large numbers of them were claimed. At the time of his investigation, Dr.
Nolen was chief of surgery at Meeker County Hospital in Litchfield,
Minnesota. Well-known researcher Kurt Koch followed up on 28 cases of
"healing" that were provided to him by the Kuhlman organization
and concluded that "there is no one clear case of healing from an organic
disease." While pastoring the Denver Revival Tabernacle in the mid-1930s,
Kuhlman became romantically involved with married evangelist Burroughs
Waltrip, who subsequently left his wife and two children and married her.
Kuhlman and Waltrip were romantically involved for two or three years
prior to their marriage. Waltrip's first wife was left alone to raise her
two sons and to pay off her husband's debts. He did not return even
for a visit. A few years after her illicit marriage, Kuhlman left Waltrip,
saying God had commanded her to leave him and to preach.
Pentecostal evangelist and faith healer A.A. ALLEN was a drunkard and a
charlatan. His Miracle Magazine was filled wit incredible claims, such as
the cure of a woman who allegedly shed 2 pounds instantly during one of
his healing services. In 1956 he began claiming that miracle oil flowed
from the hands and heads of those attending his meetings. In the 1960s,
Allen launched a "raise the dead" campaign, urging his followers to
believe God for resurrections, but he had to stop it when some refused to
bury their loved ones. Allen claimed to have the authority to lay hands on
those who gave to his ministry, granting them "the power to get wealth."
Many of his books promised prosperity. Allen was arrested for drunk
driving during a revival in 1955. He divorced his wife in 1967, in spite
of the fact that she had stood by him during the many troubles he had
brought upon himself, and three years later he died alone at age 59 in a
motel in San Francisco.
JACK COE was another Pentecostal healer evangelist whose ministry was
characterized by false teaching and outrageous and untrue claims. He
claimed that consulting physicians was connected with the mark of
the beast. Though he taught that healing was guaranteed in the atonement
and warned his followers against using medicine and consulting physicians,
Coe went right to the hospital when he fell ill with polio. He succumbed
to this disease a few weeks later. After Coe's death, his own widow
published a series of articles exposing the fraud of key Pentecostal
healing evangelists.
Famous Pentecostal evangelist-prophet-faith healer SMITH WIGGLESWORTH also
believed that physical healing is guaranteed in the atonement of Christ
and taught against the use of all medicine. He claimed that the Christian
has the power to speak things into existence. He taught that the Christian
can operate in the same omnipotent power that Christ exercised. He
believed in a form of sinless perfectionism. In spite of his teaching that
God promises perfect physical wholeness and that the Christian can operate
in
the same sign gifts that Christ exhibited, very few of those who sought
Wigglesworth's healing ministrations were ever healed. His own wife died
a mere six years after he became a Pentecostal, and his son died two years
after that. His daughter, who assisted in his meetings, was never healed
of her deafness. For three years Wigglesworth suffered with gallstones.
While there have been many moral and upright Pentecostal preachers, the
fact remains that a very large percentage of the most famous ones have
been charlatans and heretics.
At a young age Roberts Liardon set out to study the lives of these and
other Pentecostal founders, and now he himself has become the latest
casualty in the long line of discredited and shipwrecked individuals
who have stood at the helm of the Pentecostal movement.
See our book The Laughing Revival from Azusa to Pensacola for more
information and for careful documentation of these sad facts.
[Distributed by Way of Life Literature's Fundamental Baptist Information
Service. These articles cannot be stored on BBS or Internet sites or sold
or placed by themselves or with other material in any electronic format
for sale, but may be distributed for free by e-mail or by print. They must
be
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headers. The Fundamental Baptist Information Service is a listing for
Fundamental Baptists and other fundamentalist, Bible-believing
Christians.]
----------------------
Pat Robertson accidentally discovers the cause...
Do Unnatural Acts Cause Natural Disasters?
Pat Robertson, founder of the Christian Coalition, recently warned
Orlando, Florida, that it was courting natural disaster by allowing gay
pride flags to be flown along its streets. "A condition like this will
bring about...earthquakes, tornadoes, and possibly a meteor, Robertson
said.
Apparently he was referring to his belief that the presence of openly gay
people incurs divine wrath and that God acts through geological and
meteorological events to destroy municipalities that permit gay
people the same civil liberties as others. (Robertson also warned Orlando
about terrorist bombs, suggesting the possibility that God may also employ
terrorists.) But before Pat and his Christian cronies
get too carried away promulgating the idea that natural disasters are
prompted by people who displease God, they should take a hard look at the
data.
Take tornadoes. Every state (except Alaska) has them -- some only one or
two a year, dozens in others. Gay people are in every state (even Alaska).
According to Pat's hypothesis, there should be more gay
people in states that have more tornadoes.
But are there? Nope. In fact, there's no correlation at all between the
number of gay folks (as estimated by the number of gay political
organizations, support groups, bookstores, radio programs, and circuit
parties) and the annual tornado count (r = .04, p = .78 for you
statisticians). So much for the "God hates gays" theory.
God seems almost neutral on the subject of sexual orientation. I say
"almost" because if we look at the density of gay groups relative to the
population as a whole, there is a small but statistically significant (p
..05) correlation with the occurrence of tornadoes. And it's a negative
correlation (r = -.28).
For those of you who haven't used statistics since 1973, that means that a
high concentration of gay organizations actually protects against
tornadoes. A state with the population of, say, Alabama could
avert two tornadoes a year merely by doubling the number of gay
organizations in the state. (Tough choice for Alabama's civil defense
strategists.)
Although God may not care about sexual orientation, the same cannot be
said for religious affiliation. If the underlying tenet of Pat's postulate
is true -- that God wipes out offensive folks via natural disasters --
then perhaps we can find some evidence of who's on God's hit list.
Jews are off the hook here: there's no correlation between numbers of Jews
and frequency of tornadoes. Ditto for Catholics. But when it comes to
Protestants, there's a highly significant correlation of .71. This means
that fully half the state-to-state variation in tornado frequency can be
accounted for by the presence of Protestants. And the chance that this
association is merely coincidental is only one in 10,000.
Protestants, of course, come in many flavors -- we were able to find
statistics for Lutherans, Methodists, Baptists, and Others. Lutherans
don't seem to be a problem -- no correlation with tornadoes. There's
a modest correlation (r = .52, p = .0001) between Methodists and
tornadoes. But Baptists and Others share the prize: both groups show a
definite correlation with tornado frequency (r = .68, p =.0001).
This means that Texas could cut its average of 139 tornadoes per year in
half by sending a few hundred thousand Baptists elsewhere (Alaska maybe?).
What, you are probably asking yourself, about gay Protestants? An
examination of the numbers of gay religious groups (mostly Protestant)
reveals no significant relationship with tornadoes. Perhaps even
Protestants are less repugnant to God if they're gay. And that brings up
another point -- the futility of trying to save the world by getting gay
people to accept Jesus. It looks from our numbers as if the frequency of
natural disasters might be more effectively reduced by encouraging
Protestants to be gay.
Gay people have been falsely blamed for disasters ever since Sodom was
destroyed by fire and brimstone. (We have been unable to find any
statistics on disasters involving brimstone). According to a reliable
source, the destruction of Sodom was indeed an act of God (see Genesis
19:13). Its destruction was perpetrated because the citizens thereof were,
according to the same source (see Ezekiel 16:49-50)
"arrogant, overfed and unconcerned [and] did not help the poor and needy"
-- not because they were gay.
Now Pat would have us believe that gays are the cause of tornadoes (as
well as earthquakes, meteors, and even terrorist bombs) in utter disregard
for evidence showing that Baptists are much more likely to
cause them.
I say "Kudos!" to Orlando. Despite Robertson's warning that Orlando is
"right in the way of some serious hurricanes" (hardly a revelation), note
that it was not struck by the very destructive Hurricane Andrew a few
years ago. And amid the recent conflagrations (that's fires) in central
Florida, which occurred just after Pat sounded his alarm, Orlando was
spared.
Keep those flags waving! As any statistician will tell you, of course,
correlation doesn't prove causation. Protestants causing tornadoes by
angering God isn't the only explanation for these data. It could be that
Baptists and Other Protestants purposely flock to states that have lots of
tornadoes (no, we haven't checked for a correlation between IQ and
religious affiliation).
But if Pat and his Christian crew insist that natural disasters are
brought on by people who offend God, let the data show who those people
are.
Janis Walworth
July 16, 1998
Sources:
Tornado Occurrence by State, 1962-1991
1990 Churches and Church Membership Population by State, 1990 US Census
Gay & Lesbian Political Organizations, Support Groups, and Religious
Groups from Gayellow Pages, National Edition, 1987.
Permission is given to all to reprint this article in its entirety on a
not-for-profit basis.
----------------
QUOTATIONS ON HOMOSEXUALITY AND RELIGION
According to the Gospels, Jesus did not devote any serious time or effort
denouncing either "abortion" or "homosexuality" though he did devote
serious time and effort denouncing the "rich" along with self-righteous
religious hypocrites. Maybe today's Religious Right could learn a few
things about "prioritizing" from Jesus?
- E.T.B.
____________________________
The Religious Right dislikes both abortions and homosexuality. But who has
fewer abortions than gays?
- George Carlin (comedian)
____________________________
DEAR (FILL IN NAME OF LOCAL CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIAN MINISTER),
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's law. I have
learned a great deal from you, and I try to share that knowledge with as
many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual
lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly
states it to be an abomination. End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific
laws and how to best follow them.
When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a
pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They
claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this?
I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as it suggests in Exodus
21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her
period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do
I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
Lev. 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around
us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not
Canadians. Can you clarify?
I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2
clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill
him myself?
A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination
(Lev. 1:1), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree.
Can you settle this?
Lev. 2:2 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a
defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my
vision have to be 2/2, or is there some wiggle room here?
Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around
their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How
should they die?
I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me
unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different
crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two
different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse
and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble
of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:1-16) Couldn't
we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with
people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.2:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you
can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and
unchanging.
- Source unknown
____________________________
An engineering professor is treating her husband, a loan officer, to
dinner for finally giving in to her pleas to shave off that scraggly beard
he grew on vacation. His favorite restaurant is a casual place where they
both feel comfortable in slacks and cotton/polyester-blend golf shirts.
But, as always, she wears the gold and pearl pendant he gave her the day
her divorce decree was final. They're laughing over their menus because
they know he always ends up diving into a giant plate of ribs but she
won't
Quiz: How many Biblical prohibitions are they violating? Well, wives are
supposed to be "submissive" to their husbands (1 Peter 3:1). And all women
are forbidden to teach men (1 Tim. 2:12), wear gold or pearls (1 Tim. 2:9)
or dress in clothing that "pertains to a man" (Deut. 22:5). Shellfish and
pork are definitely out (Lev. 11:7) and clothes of more than one fabric
(Lev. 19:19). And since the Bible rarely recognizes divorce, they're
committing adultery, which carries the rather harsh penalty of death by
stoni
because they wouldn't think of worrying about rules that seem absurd,
anachronistic or -- at best -- unrealistic. Yet this same modern-day
couple could easily be among the millions of Americans who never hesitate
to lean on the Bible to justify their own anti-gay attitudes.
- Deb Price, And Say Hi To Joyce
____________________________
The ongoing psychopathic hatred of same-sexuality has made the United
States the laughingstock of the civilized world. In most of the First
World, monotheism is weak. Where it is weak or nonexistent, private sexual
behavior has nothing to do at all with those not involved, much less the
law. At least when the Emperor Justinian, a Christian monotheist, decided
to outlaw sodomy, he had to come up with a good practical reason, which he
did. It is well known, Justinian declared, that buggery is a principal
cause of earthquakes, and so must be prohibited. But our monotheists,
always eager to hate, still quote Leviticus, as if that loony text had
anything useful to say about anything except, perhaps, the inadvisability
of eating shellfish in the Jerusalem area.
- Gore Vidal, "(The Great Unmentionable) Monotheism and its
Discontents,"
essay
____________________________
As women, as lesbians and gay men, we are denied certain very basic human
rights. The last time most people in this society cared about my rights, I
was a fetus. And the next time they'll care about my rights, is when I die
and come back as a whale.
- Sarah Citron
____________________________
If homosexuality is a disease, let's all call in queer to work.
"Hello, can't work today. Still queer."
- Robin Tyler
____________________________
HOW "UNNATURAL" IS HOMOSEXUALITY ACCORDING TO NATURE?
Homosexual behavior has been observed in barnyard animals (bulls, cows,
stallions, donkeys, cats, rams goats, pigs), 18 species in captivity
(including rats, antelope, elephants, hyenas, monkeys, apes, rabbits,
lions, porcupines, hamsters, mice, porpoises). For example, two female
macaque monkeys were observed giving each other orgasms. Homosexual
behavior has also been observed in several species in the wild -- anolis
lizards, mountain sheep, seagulls, langurs, bonobo chimpanzees.
- See p.99 and following pages for info and photos on homosexuality in
bonobos: De Waal, F. (1997). Bonobo: The Forgotten Ape. Berkeley:
University of California Press. Weinrich, J. D. (1982). See also, "Is
Homosexuality Biologically Natural?" In W. Paul, J. D. Weinrich, J. C.
Gonsiorek, & M. E. Hotvedt (Eds.), Homosexuality: Social, Psychological,
and Biological Issues. Beverly Hills, CA: Sage.
____________________________
Technical studies have recorded homosexuality in many animals, from gay
pairs of vultures and lesbian magpies to roving all-male "clubs" of
mallards and elephants that become aroused during "erotic combat."
Same-sex sexual behavior is ubiquitous within the animal kingdom, and far
from an anomaly restricted to Homo sapiens.
- Bruce Bagemihl, Biological Exhuberance: Animal Homosexuality and
Natural
Diversity
____________________________
Without a doubt the most peaceful species of chimpanzee is the "bonobo."
Among bonobos the females -- not the physically larger males -- dominate
the hierarchy, and casual sex soothes all conflicts. Bonobos even engage
in such human-like practices as French kissing, face-to-face sex in the
"missionary" position, promiscuity, and homosexuality.
The discovery of such a species of ape with such behaviors disturbed the
creationist Christian reviewer of the book, Bonobo: The Forgotten Ape, who
wrote, "In an evolutionary framework the integration of such sexual
features [as promiscuity and homosexuality, both of them favorite pastimes
among bonobos] into human society is out of the question, but the
Judeo-Christian tradition indicates that promiscuity and homosexuality are
secondary events, coming into the world after man's 'fall' and dragging
the whole of creation into a new pattern of life."
Aside from the fact that this "Christian" explanation for the "sexual
features" of bonobo behavior doesn't explain why the other well known
chimp species (pan), does not engage in such behavior [Is the other
species less 'fallen?' By how many degrees of 'fallenness?'], it also
seems to me most unfair that these attractive, harmless chimps should have
been affected in any way by Adam eating a piece of fruit. But I will admit
that they seem to enjoy the results.
- Dr. Colin Groves, commenting on a book review in Current
Anthropology,
Vol. 4, No. 1, 1999 that was written by creationist, Sigrid Hartwig-Scherer
____________________________
Concerning the Pope's claim that homosexuality is "unnatural". Perhaps the
Pope is suggesting that it lies beyond the scope of "normal" human
behavior. If so, this has uncomfortable implications for an association of
old men who wear dresses, hear voices and practice ritual
cannibalism.Self-enforced celibacy is all but unknown among other animal
species. If any sexual behavior is out of tune with the natural world, it
is surely that of the priesthood.
- George Monbiot, The Guardian, July 13, 2
____________________________
I was raised Roman Catholic, and according to the Catholic Church it's
okay to be homosexual, as long as you don't practice homosexuality. Which
is interesting, because I think it's okay to be Catholic, so long as you
don't practice Catholicism.
- Bob Smith
____________________________
WHAT ABOUT SEMI-SAME SEX MARRIAGES?
Paul the apostle wrote in the first chapter of his letter to the
congregation in Rome that it was wrong for a woman to "burn" for another
woman. But what if the other "woman" has both a vagina and a penis (where
her clitoris is usually located)? Such people exist. What kind of
condemnation should apply to them? Are such people allowed to "burn" for
people of either sex?
Cases of inter-sexed human babies include different degrees and types of
inter-sexuality. "When all causes of inter-sexuality are considered, as
many as one in 2, babies are affected." (Altheaea Yronwode, "Intersex
Individuals Dispute Wisdom of Surgery on Infants," Transgender Tapestry,
Issue #88, Fall 1999) The American Medical Association has decreed that
doctors ought to operate on the genitalia of such infants to ensure that
every inter-sexed baby is "made to fit" into either the "male" or "female"
categories that society prides itself on being able to easily distinguish.
In the case of a baby who has not been operated on (because their parents
did not allow it), and who has grown into an adult having breasts, a
vagina, and a penis instead of a clitoris, what decision should churches
make? To allow such a person to wed a partner of either gender is to
approve of "semi-same sex" marriages. (How far is that from approving of
"same sex" marriages?) Another option would be for churches to insist on
operations for all babies born with inter-sexed genitalia -- in other
words such children must be mutilated for having messed up the neat and
tidy categories of human sexuality with which the Bible deals. The AMA is
beginning to shy away from continuing such operations, so maybe churches
will need to mount a counter campaign to maintain them. Or maybe churches
can continue
theological questions that "inter-sexed" people raise. Certainly the Bible
gives little assurance as to how to proceed and "what to condemn" in such
cases.
- E.T.B.
____________________________
I love Christians who tell me something sweet and Christian, like, "You're
going to hell!" It's not hard for me to picture gay hell. "The scorching
wind from the fiery pit messed up my hair, there's no mousse? No
blow-dryer? This is hell! There's nothing on TV but Hee Haw. My furniture
is from Levitz! I'm living in a trailer park! Aaaah!"
- Danny McWilliams
____________________________
Gays started the Renaissance. It was probably two gay guys at a party
saying, "Wouldn't it be fun to make religious paintings of hot naked guys,
and sell them to churches? Oh, that would be a hoot!"
- Bob Smith
____________________________
HOW A CITY THAT PRACTICED "INSTITUTIONALIZED PEDERASTY"
SAVED WESTERN CIVILIZATION
Before the Roman Empire, and before Alexander the Greek and his empire, a
vast Persian empire stretched from the Aegean sea to beyond the Hindu
Kush; and the Persian king, Xerxes, continued to advance westward to
conquer the city-states of Greece . Had it not been for the Greeks of the
city-state of Sparta, and their organization of their society into a
well-oiled military machine, and their diplomatic development of a
rudimentary multi-state Greek alliance well before the Persians came to
Greece, there wo
Greek resistance could have coalesced. Had it not been for the Spartans'
suicidal but heroic stand at Thermopylae, which showed that the Persians
could be resisted, it is unlikely that the small, wavering and uncohesive
force of loyalist Greeks would have had the nerve to imagine that they
might one day win. But for charismatic Spartan commanders . the Greek
land forces would have been critically weakened. Finally, had the loyalist
Greeks lost in 48-479 BC and the Persians absorbed the Greeks of the
mainland as well as of the islands and the western Asiatic seaboard into
their far flung empire, the ensuing Greek civilization would have been
immeasurably different from, and, most would say inferior to what actually
evolved .
Thus, one not insignificant reason why we should care who the ancient
Spartans were is that they played a key role -- some might say the key
role -- in defending Greece and so preserving a form of culture or
civilization that constitutes one of the chief roots of our own Western
civilization.
Consider the following more or less well attested social customs or
practices [of the Spartans]: institutionalized pederasty (i.e., same-sex
relations, especially anal intercourse) between a young adult citizen
warrior and a teenage youth within the compulsory state-run educational
cycle; athletic sports including wrestling practiced officially by the
teenage girls; polyandry (women with more than one husband); and
wife-sharing without the opprobrium or legal guilt of adultery.
- Peter Cartledge, "To Die For?" History Today, Vol. 52, No. 8
(August 22)
So, a city that practiced "institutionalized pederasty" saved Western
civilization.
- E.T.B.
____________________________
Alexander the Great? Another gay in the military.
- E.T.B.
____________________________
Jerry Falwell thinks that homosexuals are out to recruit guys, to lead
them into dangerous and life-threatening situations. That's the army,
Jerry! Homosexuality, you gotta audition. And it's grueling! All those
lines from old movies, the antiques, the fabrics. And, of course, you've
gotta do the whole thing while dancing. Then there's the physical.
- Atom
____________________________
I thank God for creating gay men. Because if it wasn't for them, us fat
women would have no one to dance with.
- Roseanne
AIDS
If AIDS represents "God's condemnation of homosexual behavior," what do
measles, mumps, small pox, tuberculosis, and polio represent, "God's
condemnation" of "childi