| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"words of truth" |
| Date: |
18 Nov 2005 10:56:27 PM |
| Object: |
Is It Better To Be Atheist Than Muslim? |
http://albertusminimus.typepad.com/albertus_minimus/2005/11/better_atheist_.html
Better atheist than Muslim?
Chad at Cacoethes Scribendi posits that we are in a period of three way
conflict: between Christendom, Islam and the secularist, materialist
West. It's an excellent post and one well worth reading in its
entirety. He then goes on to ask if 'the best thing we can hope for in
the unending war against Islam is for materialism to be successful in
its advance into Muslim society'?
To that I would answer emphatically no. Why not? Well, first, that
given the choice between an ordinary devout Muslim (note: I am not
talking about Salafists and their ilk, who take what is best about
Islamic civilisation and twisted it into a necklace of skulls) and a
Western secular atheist, I would unhesitatingly choose the Muslim. My
suspicion is that God would too. After all, let's just pause here for a
moment and look at what we have in common with Muslims: we believe in
one God, the creator of heaven and earth. We believe in prayer,
salvation, and that we are held accountable for our deeds in this life
in the next. (If only I wasn't so pushed for time at the moment I'd
write something more about the commonalities between Christianity and
Islam as opposed to secularism.)
My second reason for hoping that materialism does not advance further
into the Muslim world is that I believe there are good grounds for
thinking that the cancer that is eating away at the Dar al Islam is the
product of an unholy union between what is worse within Islam and what
is worse within the West. 'Islamofascism' or 'Islamonihilism' are both
good descriptive terms for this union. Further penetration of Western
materialism and decadence into the Dar al Islam is only likely to make
matters worse.
Thirdly, assuming that the current civil war within the House of Islam
is won by the people I hope will win it - and I know that's a big
assumption - , then I believe that Muslims are likely to become to some
extent our allies against the 'culture of death'. Not perfect allies,
but allies nonetheless. For remember we are dealing with degrees of
truth here: there is much that is true and good within the House of
Islam, there is nothing true and good about the culture of death.
Of course, the real problem in future lies with the Muslim minorities
in Western countries. Theodore Dalrymple is exactly right when he says:
'Young Muslim men in Britain-as in France and elsewhere in the
West-have a problem of personal, cultural, and national identity.
They are deeply secularized, with little religious faith, even if most
will admit to a belief in God. Their interest in Islam is slight. They
do not pray or keep Ramadan (except if it brings them some practical
advantage, such as the postponement of a court appearance). Their
tastes are for the most part those of non-Muslim lower-class young
men.'
What these young men don't need is more gangsta rap. I would argue,
rather unusually on a Catholic blog, that what they actually need is
their religion. Only conversion can save these young men from the
nihilist hell that they have plunged themselves into, and given the
situation in which they are, conversion to Islam is more likely than
conversion to Christianity. The problem is, of course, that depending
on the type of Islam they convert to, they may be simply exchanging one
sort of cold consuming fire for another. However, I believe that
ordinary Islam or Islam in its Sufic dimensions provides sufficient
means for God, through the person of Jesus Christ, to lead Muslims to
salvation. I of course realise that this is a personal opinion, and one
advanced tentatively, but my own experience attests to it.
.
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| User: "serwad" |
|
| Title: Re: Is It Better To Be Atheist Than Muslim? |
19 Nov 2005 12:58:30 PM |
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Isn't religion a matter of private choice? Maybe that is why we muslims
have no priests, nor missionaries!
.
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| User: "Yournameheres personal Cthulhu" |
|
| Title: Re: Re: Is It Better To Be Atheist Than Muslim? |
19 Nov 2005 09:11:16 PM |
|
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"serwad" <serwad@bellsouth.net> suddenly spluttered:
Isn't religion a matter of private choice? Maybe that is why we muslims
have no priests, nor missionaries!
Some Islamic missionaries:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings
------------------------------------------------
Conflict over the exact will/purpose/nature of God cannot ever be
resolved, since there are no facts to go on.
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #2208
.
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| User: "Olrik" |
|
| Title: Re: Is It Better To Be Atheist Than Muslim? |
20 Nov 2005 05:42:34 AM |
|
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serwad wrote:
Isn't religion a matter of private choice? Maybe that is why we muslims
have no priests, nor missionaries!
Imams?
Ayatollahs?
--
Olrik
aa #1981
Qualified SMASH member
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division
.
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| User: "Yournameheres personal Cthulhu" |
|
| Title: Re: Re: Is It Better To Be Atheist Than Muslim? |
20 Nov 2005 06:27:04 PM |
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Olrik <olrik666@yahoo_BACON!_.com> suddenly spluttered:
serwad wrote:
Isn't religion a matter of private choice? Maybe that is why we muslims
have no priests, nor missionaries!
Imams?
Ayatollahs?
Some more Islamic missionaries:
http://folsombusiness.com/images/TWIN-TOWERS.jpg
------------------------------------------------
Conflict over the exact will/purpose/nature of God cannot ever be
resolved, since there are no facts to go on.
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #2208
.
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Is It Better To Be Atheist Than Muslim? |
22 Nov 2005 01:41:51 PM |
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Olrik wrote:
serwad wrote:
Isn't religion a matter of private choice? Maybe that is why we muslims
have no priests, nor missionaries!
No it is not... You made it up. Read the Muslim Holy Book and tell us
where it says religion is a matter of private choice.
Imams?
Ayatollahs?
--
Olrik
aa #1981
Qualified SMASH member
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division
.
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| User: "Yournameheres personal Cthulhu" |
|
| Title: Re: Is It Better To Be Atheist Than Muslim? |
19 Nov 2005 10:15:20 AM |
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"words of truth" <wordsoftruth@hoshmail.com> suddenly spluttered:
Nothing original, yet again.
O Turds of Wrath, you are nothing but a quote miner, and a mindless
troll. Your postings are absolutely worthless as they do not examine
anything, but merely smear bigotry all over usenet.
Unlike fascist trolls like you, I value every piece of life's rich
tapestry, except for the cigarette burns, which you are one of.
Now, STFU and FOAD, *****.
------------------------------------------------
Conflict over the exact will/purpose/nature of God cannot ever be
resolved, since there are no facts to go on.
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #2208
.
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| User: "Ike" |
|
| Title: Re: Is It Better To Be Atheist Than Muslim? |
20 Nov 2005 11:54:33 PM |
|
|
"words of truth" <wordsoftruth@hoshmail.com> wrote in message
news:1132354587.252137.13740@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
http://albertusminimus.typepad.com/albertus_minimus/2005/11/better_atheist_.html
Better atheist than Muslim?
Chad at Cacoethes Scribendi posits that we are in a period of three way
conflict: between Christendom, Islam and the secularist, materialist
West. It's an excellent post and one well worth reading in its
entirety. He then goes on to ask if 'the best thing we can hope for in
the unending war against Islam is for materialism to be successful in
its advance into Muslim society'?
To that I would answer emphatically no. Why not? Well, first, that
given the choice between an ordinary devout Muslim (note: I am not
talking about Salafists and their ilk, who take what is best about
Islamic civilisation and twisted it into a necklace of skulls) and a
Western secular atheist, I would unhesitatingly choose the Muslim. My
suspicion is that God would too. After all, let's just pause here for a
moment and look at what we have in common with Muslims: we believe in
one God, the creator of heaven and earth. We believe in prayer,
salvation, and that we are held accountable for our deeds in this life
in the next. (If only I wasn't so pushed for time at the moment I'd
write something more about the commonalities between Christianity and
Islam as opposed to secularism.)
My second reason for hoping that materialism does not advance further
into the Muslim world is that I believe there are good grounds for
thinking that the cancer that is eating away at the Dar al Islam is the
product of an unholy union between what is worse within Islam and what
is worse within the West. 'Islamofascism' or 'Islamonihilism' are both
good descriptive terms for this union. Further penetration of Western
materialism and decadence into the Dar al Islam is only likely to make
matters worse.
Thirdly, assuming that the current civil war within the House of Islam
is won by the people I hope will win it - and I know that's a big
assumption - , then I believe that Muslims are likely to become to some
extent our allies against the 'culture of death'. Not perfect allies,
but allies nonetheless. For remember we are dealing with degrees of
truth here: there is much that is true and good within the House of
Islam, there is nothing true and good about the culture of death.
Of course, the real problem in future lies with the Muslim minorities
in Western countries. Theodore Dalrymple is exactly right when he says:
'Young Muslim men in Britain-as in France and elsewhere in the
West-have a problem of personal, cultural, and national identity.
They are deeply secularized, with little religious faith, even if most
will admit to a belief in God. Their interest in Islam is slight. They
do not pray or keep Ramadan (except if it brings them some practical
advantage, such as the postponement of a court appearance). Their
tastes are for the most part those of non-Muslim lower-class young
men.'
What these young men don't need is more gangsta rap. I would argue,
rather unusually on a Catholic blog, that what they actually need is
their religion. Only conversion can save these young men from the
nihilist hell that they have plunged themselves into, and given the
situation in which they are, conversion to Islam is more likely than
conversion to Christianity. The problem is, of course, that depending
on the type of Islam they convert to, they may be simply exchanging one
sort of cold consuming fire for another. However, I believe that
ordinary Islam or Islam in its Sufic dimensions provides sufficient
means for God, through the person of Jesus Christ, to lead Muslims to
salvation. I of course realise that this is a personal opinion, and one
advanced tentatively, but my own experience attests to it.
If communists were running Iraq now, the problem would be solved.
.
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| User: "Jim E" |
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| Title: Re: Is It Better To Be Atheist Than Muslim? |
21 Nov 2005 09:38:40 PM |
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"words of truth" <wordsoftruth@hoshmail.com> wrote in message
news:1132354587.252137.13740@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
http://albertusminimus.typepad.com/albertus_minimus/2005/11/better_atheist_.html
Better atheist than Muslim?
Anything is better than moslim, including dead.
Jim E
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Is It Better To Be Atheist Than Muslim? |
22 Nov 2005 02:02:22 PM |
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Jim E wrote:
"words of truth" <wordsoftruth@hoshmail.com> wrote in message
news:1132354587.252137.13740@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
http://albertusminimus.typepad.com/albertus_minimus/2005/11/better_atheist_.html
Better atheist than Muslim?
Anything is better than moslim, including dead.
That is your opinion which you are entitled to. But who ever said
your opinion was worth anything?
YOU ARE NOT JESUS, THE LORD OF THE LIVING AND THE DEAD
Jim E
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| User: "Bulba!" |
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| Title: Re: Is It Better To Be Atheist Than Muslim? |
22 Nov 2005 02:07:48 PM |
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On 22 Nov 2005 06:02:22 -0800, wrote:
news:1132354587.252137.13740@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
http://albertusminimus.typepad.com/albertus_minimus/2005/11/better_atheist_.html
Better atheist than Muslim?
Anything is better than moslim, including dead.
That is your opinion which you are entitled to. But who ever said
your opinion was worth anything?
YOU ARE NOT JESUS, THE LORD OF THE LIVING AND THE DEAD
He's not, true - he's "just" an individual, but I hope he is an
individual armed with a shotgun. Same as me. :-)
--
I'm not against the army, I'm against the draft.
I'm not against police, I'm against police state.
I'm not against welfare, I'm against taxes.
I'm not against people being fed, I'm against
collectivism that keeps them hungry, even if they
think it is only the collectivism that can keep
them fed.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Is It Better To Be Atheist Than Muslim? |
22 Nov 2005 07:02:59 PM |
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Bulba! wrote:
On 22 Nov 2005 06:02:22 -0800, wrote:
news:1132354587.252137.13740@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
http://albertusminimus.typepad.com/albertus_minimus/2005/11/better_atheist_.html
Better atheist than Muslim?
Anything is better than moslim, including dead.
That is your opinion which you are entitled to. But who ever said
your opinion was worth anything?
YOU ARE NOT JESUS, THE LORD OF THE LIVING AND THE DEAD
He's not, true - he's "just" an individual, but I hope he is an
individual armed with a shotgun. Same as me. :-)
You will one day meet with your fate
--
I'm not against the army, I'm against the draft.
I'm not against police, I'm against police state.
I'm not against welfare, I'm against taxes.
I'm not against people being fed, I'm against
collectivism that keeps them hungry, even if they
think it is only the collectivism that can keep
them fed.
.
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: Is It Better To Be Atheist Than Muslim? |
22 Nov 2005 07:11:23 PM |
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"You will one day meet with your fate "
[So will you. Triillion to one odds you'll be disappointed. And that's
a conservative estimate.]
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| User: "Bulba!" |
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| Title: Re: Is It Better To Be Atheist Than Muslim? |
22 Nov 2005 07:27:07 PM |
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On 22 Nov 2005 11:02:59 -0800, wrote:
Better atheist than Muslim?
Anything is better than moslim, including dead.
That is your opinion which you are entitled to. But who ever said
your opinion was worth anything?
YOU ARE NOT JESUS, THE LORD OF THE LIVING AND THE DEAD
He's not, true - he's "just" an individual, but I hope he is an
individual armed with a shotgun. Same as me. :-)
You will one day meet with your fate
A Muslim with a shotgun? The outcome is undecided yet I'd say.
--
I'm not against the army, I'm against the draft.
I'm not against police, I'm against police state.
I'm not against welfare, I'm against taxes.
I'm not against people being fed, I'm against
collectivism that keeps them hungry, even if they
think it is only the collectivism that can keep
them fed.
.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Is It Better To Be Atheist Than Muslim? |
19 Nov 2005 07:17:20 PM |
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"words of truth" <wordsoftruth@hoshmail.com> wrote in message
news:1132354587.252137.13740@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
http://albertusminimus.typepad.com/albertus_minimus/2005/11/better_atheist_.html
Better atheist than Muslim?
Better to be atheist than religious, whatever the religion.
--
Jez, MBA.,
Country Dancing and Advanced Astrology, UBS.
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable notion
that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often led to
accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what that
reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be skeptical of
someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
.
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| User: "shrikeback" |
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| Title: Re: Is It Better To Be Atheist Than Muslim? |
20 Nov 2005 12:32:58 AM |
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"Jez" <iced_spear@nodamnspamdsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:Bs2dnfuDmr3H5-LeRVnysw@pipex.net...
"words of truth" <wordsoftruth@hoshmail.com> wrote in message
news:1132354587.252137.13740@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
http://albertusminimus.typepad.com/albertus_minimus/2005/11/better_atheist_.html
Better atheist than Muslim?
Better to be atheist than religious, whatever the religion.
--
Jez, MBA.,
Country Dancing and Advanced Astrology, UBS.
Especially if that religion is Asstrology.
.
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| User: "Jez" |
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| Title: Re: Is It Better To Be Atheist Than Muslim? |
20 Nov 2005 05:10:51 PM |
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"shrikeback" <hewpiedawg@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:jICdnYplhI9jX-LeRVn-pg@comcast.com...
"Jez" <iced_spear@nodamnspamdsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:Bs2dnfuDmr3H5-LeRVnysw@pipex.net...
"words of truth" <wordsoftruth@hoshmail.com> wrote in message
news:1132354587.252137.13740@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
http://albertusminimus.typepad.com/albertus_minimus/2005/11/better_atheist_.html
Better atheist than Muslim?
Better to be atheist than religious, whatever the religion.
--
Jez, MBA.,
Country Dancing and Advanced Astrology, UBS.
Especially if that religion is Asstrology.
I don't have a religion.
http://www.cynicalbastards.com/ubs/
--
Jez, MBA.,
Country Dancing and Advanced Astrology, UBS.
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable notion
that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often led to
accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what that
reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be skeptical of
someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
.
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: Is It Better To Be Atheist Than Muslim? |
25 Nov 2005 03:48:46 AM |
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"words of truth" <wordsoftruth@hoshmail.com> wrote in message
news:1132354587.252137.13740@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
http://albertusminimus.typepad.com/albertus_minimus/2005/11/better_atheist_.html
Better atheist than Muslim?
Yes. And better atheist than Christian too.
.
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| User: "Terry Cross" |
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| Title: Re: Is It Better To Be Atheist Than Muslim? |
25 Nov 2005 04:01:02 AM |
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John Baker wrote:
"words of truth" <wordsoftruth@hoshmail.com> wrote in message
news:1132354587.252137.13740@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
http://albertusminimus.typepad.com/albertus_minimus/2005/11/better_atheist_.html
Better atheist than Muslim?
Yes. And better atheist than Christian too.
If you happen to be at the bottom of the political food chain, being
Atheist is the worst of both worlds.
TCross
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| User: "Shmaryahu b. Chanoch" |
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| Title: Re: Is It Better To Be Atheist Than Muslim? |
19 Nov 2005 05:59:49 PM |
|
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On 18 Nov 2005 14:56:27 -0800, "words of truth" <wordsoftruth@hoshmail.com>
wrote:
|http://albertusminimus.typepad.com/albertus_minimus/2005/11/better_atheist_.html
|
|
|Better atheist than Muslim?
|
|
|Chad at Cacoethes Scribendi posits that we are in a period of three way
|conflict: between Christendom, Islam and the secularist, materialist
|West. It's an excellent post and one well worth reading in its
|entirety. He then goes on to ask if 'the best thing we can hope for in
|the unending war against Islam is for materialism to be successful in
|its advance into Muslim society'?
|
|To that I would answer emphatically no. Why not? Well, first, that
|given the choice between an ordinary devout Muslim (note: I am not
|talking about Salafists and their ilk, who take what is best about
|Islamic civilisation and twisted it into a necklace of skulls) and a
|Western secular atheist, I would unhesitatingly choose the Muslim. My
|suspicion is that God would too. After all, let's just pause here for a
|moment and look at what we have in common with Muslims: we believe in
|one God, the creator of heaven and earth. We believe in prayer,
|salvation, and that we are held accountable for our deeds in this life
|in the next. (If only I wasn't so pushed for time at the moment I'd
|write something more about the commonalities between Christianity and
|Islam as opposed to secularism.)
|
|My second reason for hoping that materialism does not advance further
|into the Muslim world is that I believe there are good grounds for
|thinking that the cancer that is eating away at the Dar al Islam is the
|product of an unholy union between what is worse within Islam and what
|is worse within the West. 'Islamofascism' or 'Islamonihilism' are both
|good descriptive terms for this union. Further penetration of Western
|materialism and decadence into the Dar al Islam is only likely to make
|matters worse.
|
|Thirdly, assuming that the current civil war within the House of Islam
|is won by the people I hope will win it - and I know that's a big
|assumption - , then I believe that Muslims are likely to become to some
|extent our allies against the 'culture of death'. Not perfect allies,
|but allies nonetheless. For remember we are dealing with degrees of
|truth here: there is much that is true and good within the House of
|Islam, there is nothing true and good about the culture of death.
|
|Of course, the real problem in future lies with the Muslim minorities
|in Western countries. Theodore Dalrymple is exactly right when he says:
|
|'Young Muslim men in Britain-as in France and elsewhere in the
|West-have a problem of personal, cultural, and national identity.
|They are deeply secularized, with little religious faith, even if most
|will admit to a belief in God. Their interest in Islam is slight. They
|do not pray or keep Ramadan (except if it brings them some practical
|advantage, such as the postponement of a court appearance). Their
|tastes are for the most part those of non-Muslim lower-class young
|men.'
|
|What these young men don't need is more gangsta rap. I would argue,
|rather unusually on a Catholic blog, that what they actually need is
|their religion. Only conversion can save these young men from the
|nihilist hell that they have plunged themselves into, and given the
|situation in which they are, conversion to Islam is more likely than
|conversion to Christianity. The problem is, of course, that depending
|on the type of Islam they convert to, they may be simply exchanging one
|sort of cold consuming fire for another. However, I believe that
|ordinary Islam or Islam in its Sufic dimensions provides sufficient
|means for God, through the person of Jesus Christ, to lead Muslims to
|salvation. I of course realise that this is a personal opinion, and one
|advanced tentatively, but my own experience attests to it.
Given that most Atheists will not fight, they will just be dead if they try to
oppose radical Islam.
For atheists, secularists and humanists, there is only two choices: either
embrace Islam or die.....
---
"If ye love wealth better than liberty ... servitude better than ... freedom,
go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsel or your arms ... May your
chains set lightly upon you. May posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
- Samuel Adams
.
|
|
|
| User: "Colin Day" |
|
| Title: Re: Is It Better To Be Atheist Than Muslim? |
21 Nov 2005 12:53:02 AM |
|
|
Shmaryahu b. Chanoch wrote:
On 18 Nov 2005 14:56:27 -0800, "words of truth" <wordsoftruth@hoshmail.com>
wrote:
|http://albertusminimus.typepad.com/albertus_minimus/2005/11/better_atheist_.html
|
|
|Better atheist than Muslim?
|
|
|Chad at Cacoethes Scribendi posits that we are in a period of three way
|conflict: between Christendom, Islam and the secularist, materialist
|West. It's an excellent post and one well worth reading in its
|entirety. He then goes on to ask if 'the best thing we can hope for in
|the unending war against Islam is for materialism to be successful in
|its advance into Muslim society'?
|
|To that I would answer emphatically no. Why not? Well, first, that
|given the choice between an ordinary devout Muslim (note: I am not
|talking about Salafists and their ilk, who take what is best about
|Islamic civilisation and twisted it into a necklace of skulls) and a
|Western secular atheist, I would unhesitatingly choose the Muslim. My
|suspicion is that God would too. After all, let's just pause here for a
|moment and look at what we have in common with Muslims: we believe in
|one God, the creator of heaven and earth. We believe in prayer,
|salvation, and that we are held accountable for our deeds in this life
|in the next. (If only I wasn't so pushed for time at the moment I'd
|write something more about the commonalities between Christianity and
|Islam as opposed to secularism.)
|
|My second reason for hoping that materialism does not advance further
|into the Muslim world is that I believe there are good grounds for
|thinking that the cancer that is eating away at the Dar al Islam is the
|product of an unholy union between what is worse within Islam and what
|is worse within the West. 'Islamofascism' or 'Islamonihilism' are both
|good descriptive terms for this union. Further penetration of Western
|materialism and decadence into the Dar al Islam is only likely to make
|matters worse.
|
|Thirdly, assuming that the current civil war within the House of Islam
|is won by the people I hope will win it - and I know that's a big
|assumption - , then I believe that Muslims are likely to become to some
|extent our allies against the 'culture of death'. Not perfect allies,
|but allies nonetheless. For remember we are dealing with degrees of
|truth here: there is much that is true and good within the House of
|Islam, there is nothing true and good about the culture of death.
|
|Of course, the real problem in future lies with the Muslim minorities
|in Western countries. Theodore Dalrymple is exactly right when he says:
|
|'Young Muslim men in Britain-as in France and elsewhere in the
|West-have a problem of personal, cultural, and national identity.
|They are deeply secularized, with little religious faith, even if most
|will admit to a belief in God. Their interest in Islam is slight. They
|do not pray or keep Ramadan (except if it brings them some practical
|advantage, such as the postponement of a court appearance). Their
|tastes are for the most part those of non-Muslim lower-class young
|men.'
|
|What these young men don't need is more gangsta rap. I would argue,
|rather unusually on a Catholic blog, that what they actually need is
|their religion. Only conversion can save these young men from the
|nihilist hell that they have plunged themselves into, and given the
|situation in which they are, conversion to Islam is more likely than
|conversion to Christianity. The problem is, of course, that depending
|on the type of Islam they convert to, they may be simply exchanging one
|sort of cold consuming fire for another. However, I believe that
|ordinary Islam or Islam in its Sufic dimensions provides sufficient
|means for God, through the person of Jesus Christ, to lead Muslims to
|salvation. I of course realise that this is a personal opinion, and one
|advanced tentatively, but my own experience attests to it.
Given that most Atheists will not fight, they will just be dead if they try to
oppose radical Islam.
Why do you believe that most atheists will not fight? D
Colin Day aa #1500
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| User: "I KILLED YOUR GOD-IT WAS EASY!" |
|
| Title: Re: Is It Better To Be Atheist Than Muslim? |
19 Nov 2005 03:52:14 AM |
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nope-just better to be an atheist-we are on the top of the food chain.
--
I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented
myself from Christian assemblies.²
-- Benjamin Franklin
AA #2241.
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| User: "Terry Cross" |
|
| Title: Re: Is It Better To Be Atheist Than Muslim? |
19 Nov 2005 03:58:25 AM |
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I KILLED wrote:
nope-just better to be an atheist-we are on the top of the food chain.
Not true. I found a package of Atheist liver in the frozen food locker
at Safeway last week. But I didn't buy it because there was no (K)
mark on the package.
TCross
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| User: "Jez" |
|
| Title: Re: Is It Better To Be Atheist Than Muslim? |
19 Nov 2005 07:19:18 PM |
|
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"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1132372705.359123.148780@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I KILLED wrote:
nope-just better to be an atheist-we are on the top of the food chain.
Not true. I found a package of Atheist liver in the frozen food locker
at Safeway last week.
No, you didn't.
But I didn't buy it because there was no (K)
mark on the package.
I wonder why the religious are so prone to, 'lying-as-a-way-of-life' ?
--
Jez, MBA.,
Country Dancing and Advanced Astrology, UBS.
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable notion
that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often led to
accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what that
reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be skeptical of
someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
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| User: "Terry Cross" |
|
| Title: Re: Is It Better To Be Atheist Than Muslim? |
19 Nov 2005 07:29:59 PM |
|
|
Jez wrote:
"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1132372705.359123.148780@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I KILLED wrote:
nope-just better to be an atheist-we are on the top of the food chain.
Not true. I found a package of Atheist liver in the frozen food locker
at Safeway last week.
No, you didn't.
How can YOU be so sure that package of liver was God-fearing?
But I didn't buy it because there was no (K)
mark on the package.
I wonder why the religious are so prone to, 'lying-as-a-way-of-life' ?
Have you ever seen a package of frozen liver in church? I rest my
case.
TCross
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Is It Better To Be Atheist Than Muslim? |
20 Nov 2005 07:33:20 AM |
|
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On 19-Nov-2005, "Jez" <iced_spear@nodamnspamdsl.pipex.com> wrote:
"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1132372705.359123.148780@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I KILLED wrote:
nope-just better to be an atheist-we are on the top of the food chain.
Not true. I found a package of Atheist liver in the frozen food locker
at Safeway last week.
No, you didn't.
But I didn't buy it because there was no (K)
mark on the package.
I wonder why the religious are so prone to, 'lying-as-a-way-of-life' ?
Excuse me, none of the religious people I know are like this.
Those who claim to be so on Usenet are, tho', so I can
underatand your remark on that basis.
For instance, in case you didn't realize, Terry is NOT Jewish
and only threw in the remark about the kashrus symbol to
make an anti-semitic remark. It's just one of many for her.
Susan
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| User: "John Baker" |
|
| Title: Re: Is It Better To Be Atheist Than Muslim? |
25 Nov 2005 03:52:01 AM |
|
|
"Terry Cross" <tcross77@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1132372705.359123.148780@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I KILLED wrote:
nope-just better to be an atheist-we are on the top of the food chain.
Not true. I found a package of Atheist liver in the frozen food locker
at Safeway last week. But I didn't buy it because there was no (K)
mark on the package.
Fibber. Atheist liver is sold only at the finest gourmet shops. ;-)
TCross
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Is It Better To Be Atheist Than Muslim? |
22 Nov 2005 07:27:54 PM |
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words of truth wrote:
http://albertusminimus.typepad.com/albertus_minimus/2005/11/better_atheist_.html
Better atheist than Muslim?
Chad at Cacoethes Scribendi posits that we are in a period of three way
conflict: between Christendom, Islam and the secularist, materialist
West.
The difference, of course, being that the West falls more in love with
Islam everytime the latter blows part of the former away.
It's an excellent post and one well worth reading in its
entirety. He then goes on to ask if 'the best thing we can hope for in
the unending war against Islam is for materialism to be successful in
its advance into Muslim society'?
To that I would answer emphatically no. Why not? Well, first, that
given the choice between an ordinary devout Muslim (note: I am not
talking about Salafists and their ilk, who take what is best about
Islamic civilisation and twisted it into a necklace of skulls) and a
Western secular atheist, I would unhesitatingly choose the Muslim. My
suspicion is that God would too. After all, let's just pause here for a
moment and look at what we have in common with Muslims: we believe in
one God, the creator of heaven and earth. We believe in prayer,
salvation, and that we are held accountable for our deeds in this life
in the next. (If only I wasn't so pushed for time at the moment I'd
write something more about the commonalities between Christianity and
Islam as opposed to secularism.)
My second reason for hoping that materialism does not advance further
into the Muslim world is that I believe there are good grounds for
thinking that the cancer that is eating away at the Dar al Islam is the
product of an unholy union between what is worse within Islam and what
is worse within the West. 'Islamofascism' or 'Islamonihilism' are both
good descriptive terms for this union. Further penetration of Western
materialism and decadence into the Dar al Islam is only likely to make
matters worse.
Thirdly, assuming that the current civil war within the House of Islam
is won by the people I hope will win it - and I know that's a big
assumption - , then I believe that Muslims are likely to become to some
extent our allies against the 'culture of death'. Not perfect allies,
but allies nonetheless. For remember we are dealing with degrees of
truth here: there is much that is true and good within the House of
Islam, there is nothing true and good about the culture of death.
Of course, the real problem in future lies with the Muslim minorities
in Western countries. Theodore Dalrymple is exactly right when he says:
'Young Muslim men in Britain-as in France and elsewhere in the
West-have a problem of personal, cultural, and national identity.
They are deeply secularized, with little religious faith, even if most
will admit to a belief in God. Their interest in Islam is slight. They
do not pray or keep Ramadan (except if it brings them some practical
advantage, such as the postponement of a court appearance). Their
tastes are for the most part those of non-Muslim lower-class young
men.'
What these young men don't need is more gangsta rap. I would argue,
rather unusually on a Catholic blog, that what they actually need is
their religion. Only conversion can save these young men from the
nihilist hell that they have plunged themselves into, and given the
situation in which they are, conversion to Islam is more likely than
conversion to Christianity. The problem is, of course, that depending
on the type of Islam they convert to, they may be simply exchanging one
sort of cold consuming fire for another. However, I believe that
ordinary Islam or Islam in its Sufic dimensions provides sufficient
means for God, through the person of Jesus Christ, to lead Muslims to
salvation. I of course realise that this is a personal opinion, and one
advanced tentatively, but my own experience attests to it.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Terry Cross" |
|
| Title: Re: Is It Better To Be Atheist Than Muslim? |
22 Nov 2005 07:33:40 PM |
|
|
wrote:
words of truth wrote:
http://albertusminimus.typepad.com/albertus_minimus/2005/11/better_atheist_.html
Better atheist than Muslim?
Chad at Cacoethes Scribendi posits that we are in a period of three way
conflict: between Christendom, Islam and the secularist, materialist
West.
The difference, of course, being that the West falls more in love with
Islam everytime the latter blows part of the former away.
It's an excellent post and one well worth reading in its
It is a creepy post. Where is Judaism/Israel in this orgy?
As the others point out, Israel is the elephant in the parlour that all
these oh-so-bright scholars and writers are ignoring.
TCross
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Is It Better To Be Atheist Than Muslim? |
19 Nov 2005 09:29:53 PM |
|
|
words of truth wrote:
http://albertusminimus.typepad.com/albertus_minimus/2005/11/better_atheist_.html
Better atheist than Muslim?
Chad at Cacoethes Scribendi posits that we are in a period of three way
conflict: between Christendom, Islam and the secularist, materialist
West. It's an excellent post and one well worth reading in its
entirety. He then goes on to ask if 'the best thing we can hope for in
the unending war against Islam is for materialism to be successful in
its advance into Muslim society'?
To that I would answer emphatically no. Why not? Well, first, that
given the choice between an ordinary devout Muslim (note: I am not
talking about Salafists and their ilk, who take what is best about
Islamic civilisation and twisted it into a necklace of skulls) and a
Western secular atheist, I would unhesitatingly choose the Muslim. My
suspicion is that God would too. After all, let's just pause here for a
moment and look at what we have in common with Muslims: we believe in
one God, the creator of heaven and earth. We believe in prayer,
salvation, and that we are held accountable for our deeds in this life
in the next. (If only I wasn't so pushed for time at the moment I'd
write something more about the commonalities between Christianity and
Islam as opposed to secularism.)
My second reason for hoping that materialism does not advance further
into the Muslim world is that I believe there are good grounds for
thinking that the cancer that is eating away at the Dar al Islam is the
product of an unholy union between what is worse within Islam and what
is worse within the West. 'Islamofascism' or 'Islamonihilism' are both
good descriptive terms for this union. Further penetration of Western
materialism and decadence into the Dar al Islam is only likely to make
matters worse.
Thirdly, assuming that the current civil war within the House of Islam
is won by the people I hope will win it - and I know that's a big
assumption - , then I believe that Muslims are likely to become to some
extent our allies against the 'culture of death'. Not perfect allies,
but allies nonetheless. For remember we are dealing with degrees of
truth here: there is much that is true and good within the House of
Islam, there is nothing true and good about the culture of death.
Of course, the real problem in future lies with the Muslim minorities
in Western countries. Theodore Dalrymple is exactly right when he says:
'Young Muslim men in Britain-as in France and elsewhere in the
West-have a problem of personal, cultural, and national identity.
They are deeply secularized, with little religious faith, even if most
will admit to a belief in God. Their interest in Islam is slight. They
do not pray or keep Ramadan (except if it brings them some practical
advantage, such as the postponement of a court appearance). Their
tastes are for the most part those of non-Muslim lower-class young
men.'
What these young men don't need is more gangsta rap. I would argue,
rather unusually on a Catholic blog, that what they actually need is
their religion. Only conversion can save these young men from the
nihilist hell that they have plunged themselves into, and given the
situation in which they are, conversion to Islam is more likely than
conversion to Christianity. The problem is, of course, that depending
on the type of Islam they convert to, they may be simply exchanging one
sort of cold consuming fire for another. However, I believe that
ordinary Islam or Islam in its Sufic dimensions provides sufficient
means for God, through the person of Jesus Christ, to lead Muslims to
salvation. I of course realise that this is a personal opinion, and one
advanced tentatively, but my own experience attests to it.
And your experience is worth 1000 pounds of gold.
.
|
|
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|
| User: "Terry Cross" |
|
| Title: Re: Is It Better To Be Atheist Than Muslim? |
18 Nov 2005 11:18:24 PM |
|
|
words of truth wrote:
http://albertusminimus.typepad.com/albertus_minimus/2005/11/better_atheist_.html
Better atheist than Muslim?
Chad at Cacoethes Scribendi posits that we are in a period of three way
conflict: between Christendom, Islam and the secularist, materialist
West.
How can anyone in sincerity and intellectual integrity suggest that
Judaism is not a significant part of the puzzle?
Islamic voices have used every opportunity point out Judaism's part in
the current struggle. The role of Christian and Jewish Zionists in
shaping Vatican doctrines and American foreign policy is discussed
incessantly in the liberal media.
Do Chad at Cacoethes Scribendi and WordsOfTruth live in a hole in the
hill?
TCross
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