Is Kent Hovind a powerful evangelist or a false teacher?



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: ""
Date: 07 Jan 2007 11:02:18 PM
Object: Is Kent Hovind a powerful evangelist or a false teacher?
Pentecostal/Charismatic evangelist Kent Hovind is a young-earth
creationist and runs a web ministry that he founded in the 1980's
called Creation Science Evangelism (http://www.drdino.com/index.php).
Hovind's website lacks a Doctrinal statement, but his salvation
testimony on the website below do validate that Hovind is not a
Spiritual Terrorist and is a brother in the Lord (if he means what he
says).
According to Hovind this is how one becomes saved.
http://www.chick.com/information/authors/hovind.asp#testimony
Anyone can be saved, here's how:
1. Realize you are a sinner (Romans 3:23)
2. Recognize that Jesus died for your sins (Romans 6:23)
3. Repent, ask Him to forgive you and save you right now (Romans
10:13)
Looking at the scriptures, what Hovind says is Biblically accurate. So
Hovind gives no indication (at least on his website and other writings)
that he teaches another gospel message or fulfills the Spiritual
Terrorist profile (according to Jude, 2 Peter and other passages).
Profile of a Terrorist
1=2E Inside the Christian Church- Jude 1:4, Jude 1:12, 2 Pet 2:1-2, 2 Pet
2:13
2=2E Lacking the Holy Spirit-Jude 1:19
3=2E Teaching another Gospel Message- Gal 1:8, 2 Pet 2:1, Jude 1:4, 2 Pet
2:12,
4=2E Lacking the fruits of the Spirit (Gal 5:22ff)-Mt 7:16,20, Jude 1:12,
2 Pet 2:14,
5=2E All about Self Promotion-Jude 1:12,Jude 1:16,Jude 1:18,
6=2E Attack all those that disagree with them-Jude 1:10
7=2E The Terrorists will spend eternity in Hell/The Lake of Fire-Jude
1:13, 2 Pet 2:3,2 Pet 2:9,2 Pet 2:15, 2 Pet 2:17
However Kent Hovind seems to have some issues with living above
reproach (1 Tim 3) and the doctrine of Sanctification (separation from
sin).
1 Tim 3
1Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an
overseer,[a] he desires a noble task. 2Now the overseer must be above
reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled,
respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not given to drunkenness, not
violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4He must
manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with
proper respect. 5(If anyone does not know how to manage his own family,
how can he take care of God's church?) 6He must not be a recent
convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as
the devil. 7He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that
he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's trap.
Some examples of Hovind's problems are below.
From
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Hovind#Legal_problems
In 2002, he was charged with one count of felony assault, one count of
misdemeanor battery, and one count of burglary with
assault/battery.[24] In December 2002, the charges were dropped by the
alleged victim, Hovind's secretary.[20]
Property taxes and zoning ordinance
Hovind was charged on September 13, 2002, for failure to observe county
zoning regulations with respect to Dinosaur Adventure Land.[20] Despite
arguments that the owners did not need a permit due to the nature of
the building,[25] the park has been found in violation of local
regulations. On June 5, 2006, Hovind pled nolo contendere as charged to
three counts: constructing a building without a permit, refusing to
sign a citation (Case # 2001 MM 023489 A)[26] and violating the county
building code (Case # 2002 MM 026670 A)[27]. Hovind was ordered to pay
$225.00 per count. The plea brought to an end the 5-year criminal
(misdemeanor) court battle over a $50.00 building permit. The 4-year
civil court battle with the county remains open (Case # 2002 CA
000149)[28]. Hovind estimates he spent $40,000 in legal expenses on
this case. On June 19, 2006, the delinquent 2003-2005 property
taxes/penalties for Dinosaur Adventure Land were paid in an amount of
$10,402.64 [6].
Federal criminal tax-related convictions in 2006
Wikinews has news related to:
Kent Hovind faces a 58-count federal indictment
On July 11, 2006, Hovind was charged in the United States District
Court for the Northern District of Florida in Pensacola with twelve
counts of willful failure to collect, account for, and pay over Federal
income taxes and FICA taxes under 26 U.S.C. =A7 7202, forty-five counts
of knowingly structuring transactions in Federally-insured financial
institutions to evade the reporting requirements of 31 U.S.C. =A7
5313(a), in violation of 31 U.S.C. =A7 5324, 18 U.S.C. =A7 2 and 31
C=2EF.R. sec. 103.11, and one count of corruptly endeavoring to obstruct
and impede the administration of the internal revenue laws under 26
U=2ES.C. =A7 7212.[37] [38] Twelve of the charges are for failing to pay
employee-related taxes, totaling $473,818, and 45 of the charges are
for evading reporting requirements by making multiple cash withdrawals
just under the $10,000 reporting requirement (smurfing). The
withdrawals, totaling $430,500, were placed in 2001 and 2002.[38]
From
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Hovind#Federal_civil_tax_matters.2C_bankr=
uptcy.2C_and_renouncing_citizenship
Federal civil tax matters, bankruptcy, and renouncing citizenship
Hovind does not run his various educational and religious activities
through a U.S. Internal Revenue Code Section 501(c)(3) organization.
Instead, the organizational structure he uses apparently is "based on
various questionable trust documents purchased from ... a known
promoter of tax avoidance schemes."[8] The U.S. Tax Court has concluded
that Hovind used these trust documents as well as other fraudulent
means to conceal the ownership and control of his activities and
properties.[8]
Hovind was originally reported to the IRS by Pensacola Christian
College senior vice president Rebekah Horton in the mid 1990s, after
she learned of Hovind's anti-tax stand. "'We know the Scriptures do not
promote (tax evasion),'" Horton said in testimony against Hovind during
his 2006 trial, "'It's against Scripture teaching'.... Horton believed
it was the college's duty to report the misleading doctrine. 'I didn't
want to see innocent people get led astray,' she said. Pensacola
Christian College then decided its students no longer were permitted to
work with Creation Science Evangelism".[29]
Wikisource has original text related to this article:
The Hovind Bankruptcy Decision
In 1996 Hovind unsuccessfully filed for bankruptcy to avoid paying
federal income taxes. Hovind was found to have lied about his
possessions and income[30]. He claimed that as a minister of God
everything he owns belonged to God and he is not subject to paying
taxes to the United States on the money he received for doing God's
work (citing US tax code =A7508(c)(1)(a)) [31]. The court ordered him to
pay the money and upheld the IRS determination that Hovind's claim "was
filed in bad faith for the sole purpose of avoiding payment of federal
income taxes." In the ruling, the judge called Hovind's arguments
"patently absurd." The judge also noted that "the IRS has no record of
the debtor ever having filed a federal income tax return," although
this was not the court's reason for denying the bankruptcy claim.
I could go on, but I believe I have made my point.
If Hovind wants a testimony he needs to live above reproach, not be
violent, and have a good reputation with outsiders (beyond his fan
base).
But so far it looks like Hovind does not live this kind of life, so who
can take him seriously? Hovind does not live above reproach and does
not have a ministry with the unbelieving world.
It's no wonder that the Atheists, Agnostics and others do not take
this minister seriously.
A messenger of the gospel is to live above reproach, they are to pay
their taxes, they are to manage their family, and avoid any kind of
criminal activities.
It's true that Christians are human, and it's true that God can use
Kent Hovind, but in the meantime I won't take him seriously.
Hopefully he will clean up his act, and start learning how to read the
Bible for all its worth. The Bible is very clear on paying taxes, and
being submissive to the governing authorities. Why this went right
beyond him, is beyond me. But sin is sin, and hopefully Hovind will
repent of his wickedness soon.
John
Church Education Resource Ministries
www.cerm.info
.

User: "Dave Oldridge"

Title: Re: Is Kent Hovind a powerful evangelist or a false teacher? 08 Jan 2007 08:33:15 PM
wrote in
news:1168232536.090030.267280@11g2000cwr.googlegroups.com:

Pentecostal/Charismatic evangelist Kent Hovind is a young-earth
creationist and runs a web ministry that he founded in the 1980's
called Creation Science Evangelism (http://www.drdino.com/index.php).

Hovind's website lacks a Doctrinal statement, but his salvation
testimony on the website below do validate that Hovind is not a
Spiritual Terrorist and is a brother in the Lord (if he means what he
says).

According to Hovind this is how one becomes saved.
http://www.chick.com/information/authors/hovind.asp#testimony

Anyone can be saved, here's how:

1. Realize you are a sinner (Romans 3:23)
2. Recognize that Jesus died for your sins (Romans 6:23)
3. Repent, ask Him to forgive you and save you right now (Romans
10:13)

Looking at the scriptures, what Hovind says is Biblically accurate. So
Hovind gives no indication (at least on his website and other
writings) that he teaches another gospel message or fulfills the
Spiritual Terrorist profile (according to Jude, 2 Peter and other
passages).

Profile of a Terrorist

1. Inside the Christian Church- Jude 1:4, Jude 1:12, 2 Pet 2:1-2, 2
Pet 2:13
2. Lacking the Holy Spirit-Jude 1:19
3. Teaching another Gospel Message- Gal 1:8, 2 Pet 2:1, Jude 1:4, 2
Pet 2:12,
4. Lacking the fruits of the Spirit (Gal 5:22ff)-Mt 7:16,20, Jude
1:12, 2 Pet 2:14,
5. All about Self Promotion-Jude 1:12,Jude 1:16,Jude 1:18,
6. Attack all those that disagree with them-Jude 1:10
7. The Terrorists will spend eternity in Hell/The Lake of Fire-Jude
1:13, 2 Pet 2:3,2 Pet 2:9,2 Pet 2:15, 2 Pet 2:17

However Kent Hovind seems to have some issues with living above
reproach (1 Tim 3) and the doctrine of Sanctification (separation from
sin).

1 Tim 3
1Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an
overseer,[a] he desires a noble task. 2Now the overseer must be above
reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled,
respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not given to drunkenness, not
violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4He must
manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with
proper respect. 5(If anyone does not know how to manage his own
family, how can he take care of God's church?) 6He must not be a
recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same
judgment as the devil. 7He must also have a good reputation with
outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil's
trap.

Some examples of Hovind's problems are below.

From
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Hovind#Legal_problems

In 2002, he was charged with one count of felony assault, one count of
misdemeanor battery, and one count of burglary with
assault/battery.[24] In December 2002, the charges were dropped by the
alleged victim, Hovind's secretary.[20]

Property taxes and zoning ordinance

Hovind was charged on September 13, 2002, for failure to observe
county zoning regulations with respect to Dinosaur Adventure Land.[20]
Despite arguments that the owners did not need a permit due to the
nature of the building,[25] the park has been found in violation of
local regulations. On June 5, 2006, Hovind pled nolo contendere as
charged to three counts: constructing a building without a permit,
refusing to sign a citation (Case # 2001 MM 023489 A)[26] and
violating the county building code (Case # 2002 MM 026670 A)[27].
Hovind was ordered to pay $225.00 per count. The plea brought to an
end the 5-year criminal (misdemeanor) court battle over a $50.00
building permit. The 4-year civil court battle with the county remains
open (Case # 2002 CA 000149)[28]. Hovind estimates he spent $40,000 in
legal expenses on this case. On June 19, 2006, the delinquent
2003-2005 property taxes/penalties for Dinosaur Adventure Land were
paid in an amount of $10,402.64 [6].

Federal criminal tax-related convictions in 2006
Wikinews has news related to:
Kent Hovind faces a 58-count federal indictment

On July 11, 2006, Hovind was charged in the United States District
Court for the Northern District of Florida in Pensacola with twelve
counts of willful failure to collect, account for, and pay over
Federal income taxes and FICA taxes under 26 U.S.C. § 7202, forty-five
counts of knowingly structuring transactions in Federally-insured
financial institutions to evade the reporting requirements of 31
U.S.C. § 5313(a), in violation of 31 U.S.C. § 5324, 18 U.S.C. § 2 and
31 C.F.R. sec. 103.11, and one count of corruptly endeavoring to
obstruct and impede the administration of the internal revenue laws
under 26 U.S.C. § 7212.[37] [38] Twelve of the charges are for failing
to pay employee-related taxes, totaling $473,818, and 45 of the
charges are for evading reporting requirements by making multiple cash
withdrawals just under the $10,000 reporting requirement (smurfing).
The withdrawals, totaling $430,500, were placed in 2001 and 2002.[38]

From
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Hovind#Federal_civil_tax_matters.2C_b
ankruptcy.2C_and_renouncing_citizenship

Federal civil tax matters, bankruptcy, and renouncing citizenship

Hovind does not run his various educational and religious activities
through a U.S. Internal Revenue Code Section 501(c)(3) organization.
Instead, the organizational structure he uses apparently is "based on
various questionable trust documents purchased from ... a known
promoter of tax avoidance schemes."[8] The U.S. Tax Court has
concluded that Hovind used these trust documents as well as other
fraudulent means to conceal the ownership and control of his
activities and properties.[8]

Hovind was originally reported to the IRS by Pensacola Christian
College senior vice president Rebekah Horton in the mid 1990s, after
she learned of Hovind's anti-tax stand. "'We know the Scriptures do
not promote (tax evasion),'" Horton said in testimony against Hovind
during his 2006 trial, "'It's against Scripture teaching'.... Horton
believed it was the college's duty to report the misleading doctrine.
'I didn't want to see innocent people get led astray,' she said.
Pensacola Christian College then decided its students no longer were
permitted to work with Creation Science Evangelism".[29]
Wikisource has original text related to this article:
The Hovind Bankruptcy Decision

In 1996 Hovind unsuccessfully filed for bankruptcy to avoid paying
federal income taxes. Hovind was found to have lied about his
possessions and income[30]. He claimed that as a minister of God
everything he owns belonged to God and he is not subject to paying
taxes to the United States on the money he received for doing God's
work (citing US tax code §508(c)(1)(a)) [31]. The court ordered him to
pay the money and upheld the IRS determination that Hovind's claim
"was filed in bad faith for the sole purpose of avoiding payment of
federal income taxes." In the ruling, the judge called Hovind's
arguments "patently absurd." The judge also noted that "the IRS has no
record of the debtor ever having filed a federal income tax return,"
although this was not the court's reason for denying the bankruptcy
claim.

I could go on, but I believe I have made my point.

If Hovind wants a testimony he needs to live above reproach, not be
violent, and have a good reputation with outsiders (beyond his fan
base).

But so far it looks like Hovind does not live this kind of life, so
who can take him seriously? Hovind does not live above reproach and
does not have a ministry with the unbelieving world.

It's no wonder that the Atheists, Agnostics and others do not take
this minister seriously.

A messenger of the gospel is to live above reproach, they are to pay
their taxes, they are to manage their family, and avoid any kind of
criminal activities.

Hovind's activities place him in the category of con artist. That means
you should be very wary of anything the man says, about himself or
anything else. His science degree is phony, his tax fraud is pretty much
now a matter of record and his "ministry" consisted largely of SELLING
DVD's and videotapes of him lying in public about things that he is
either ignorant about (but falsely claiming expertise in) or knows about
but is lying for the effect.
In either case, he's not welcome in any church that I have in my care,
except as a penitent sinner seeking reconciliation (and every penitent
sinner is always welcome). If he were to appear at my communion rail,
without first getting some clearance from his confessor, I'd have to
refuse him on the basis of what I know.

It's true that Christians are human, and it's true that God can use
Kent Hovind, but in the meantime I won't take him seriously.

Hopefully he will clean up his act, and start learning how to read the
Bible for all its worth. The Bible is very clear on paying taxes, and
being submissive to the governing authorities. Why this went right
beyond him, is beyond me. But sin is sin, and hopefully Hovind will
repent of his wickedness soon.

Most of his activities have been rooted in sin. I only hope he comes to
see that this is not a productive way to live. He has charisma and it
would actually be of some service if he would only strive to OBEY God's
commandments instead of circumventing them at every turn.
But he is not the only YEC apologist with this problem. The whole
movement is riddled with them. It's heresy rooted in heresy. Sola
scriptura (instituted by Luther and not supported IN scripture) led to
sola scriptura ad litteram (a popular superstition in America since about
the 1820's). Defending the latter has resulted in no end of violation of
the commandments of Exodus in the (supposed) interest of defending the
literal interpretation of Genesis. Hovind is probably as much victim as
he is violator in this respect, though it's hard to excuse his blatant
false witness in God's name.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
.
User: "Mike Painter"

Title: Re: Is Kent Hovind a powerful evangelist or a false teacher? 08 Jan 2007 10:12:55 PM
Dave Oldridge wrote:

johnw_cerm@yahoo.com wrote in
news:1168232536.090030.267280@11g2000cwr.googlegroups.com:


I see "The Chinese Pilot" is being made into another usenet thread.
For those of you that read, it is a Tolstoy short story.
For those who can't find a reference to it on the web, try a library or try
harder.

.

User: "Bible Believer"

Title: Re: Is Kent Hovind a powerful evangelist or a false teacher? 09 Jan 2007 03:44:44 AM
On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 02:33:15 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> claimed:

Hovind's activities place him in the category of con artist.

Most of his activities have been rooted in sin.

We know that you take every opportunity to trash
anyone who believe in God's word. But you do
not impress me. You are simply a man who seeks
to compromise the word of God, so that you can
promote your own sinful ways and claim that those
who believe the Bible are the ones who are in sin.
And don't bother telling us that you believe the Bible.
You do not.
And as far as I'm concerned, theistic evolutionists are
out to please men, rather than God. They claim to
believe in a virgin birth, people rising from the dead,
water turned into wine and yet, they don't believe
that God created the heaven and the earth in six
literal days, thereby making hypocrites of themselves.
Why? Because man says it isn't so and they would
rather try to please men, instead of choosing to
believe God and stand up for Him. And preachers
who claim theistic evolution are the biggest hypocrites
of all and are in the most danger. Why? Read Is 9:16;
--
I believe the Bible, period! If you don't,
that's up to you. But do not expect me to
consider your point of view valid. I am a
Christian and being a Christian means not
calling God a liar. When people claim that
this or that in the Bible isn't God's word,
what they are doing is trying to set themselves
up as judge and jury of what God said to man
and I would rather believe God, than believe
that you are some divine being who is here
to tell us what God has to say. That role
was already taken by Jesus. So I'm sorry,
but you lose and you have nothing by which
you can convince me otherwise! And if you
don't like what the Bible says, then get a
new god. But do not pretend to be a Christian!
.
User: "Dave Oldridge"

Title: Re: Is Kent Hovind a powerful evangelist or a false teacher? 09 Jan 2007 09:36:03 PM
Bible Believer <noway@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:2jo6q2l4fdoobsap3k0e2rmq1j8l40v0e8@4ax.com:

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 02:33:15 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> claimed:


Hovind's activities place him in the category of con artist.

Most of his activities have been rooted in sin.


We know that you take every opportunity to trash
anyone who believe in God's word. But you do
not impress me. You are simply a man who seeks
to compromise the word of God, so that you can
promote your own sinful ways and claim that those
who believe the Bible are the ones who are in sin.

Hovind does not believe in God's word. I'm coming to suspect that you
don't either.

And don't bother telling us that you believe the Bible.
You do not.

I don't believe the Bible teaches you to lie about science. If you do,
then you had better show me where.

And as far as I'm concerned, theistic evolutionists are
out to please men, rather than God. They claim to

I don't care how far you're concerned. As far as I'm concerned young-
earth creationists are liars in the service of Satan. They seek to
please men and women by telling them lies they know they want to hear.

believe in a virgin birth, people rising from the dead,
water turned into wine and yet, they don't believe
that God created the heaven and the earth in six
literal days, thereby making hypocrites of themselves.

No, I don't believe there is any SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE that the creation
occurred in such a manner. You are, of course, entitled to interpret
Genesis any way you want and if your interpretation implies that God is a
liar who made the heavens to lie about their age, that's YOUR problem,
not mine.

Why? Because man says it isn't so and they would
rather try to please men, instead of choosing to
believe God and stand up for Him. And preachers
who claim theistic evolution are the biggest hypocrites
of all and are in the most danger. Why? Read Is 9:16;

Read it yourself--in front of a mirror. You people are so infatuated
with your private, literal interpretation of Genesis that you think the
commandments of Exodus are set aside especially for you. You invite
totally unethical con artists like Hovind to preach in your so-called
"churches" and to deceive your congregations with their LIES.
God said, "Thou shalt not bear false witness."
Hovind and the YEC apologists say, "Thou shalt bear false witness often
and loud."
Who is right, you or God?
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
.
User: "Bible Believer"

Title: Re: Is Kent Hovind a powerful evangelist or a false teacher? 10 Jan 2007 11:54:02 AM
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 03:36:03 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> claimed:

Bible Believer <noway@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:2jo6q2l4fdoobsap3k0e2rmq1j8l40v0e8@4ax.com:

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 02:33:15 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> claimed:


Hovind's activities place him in the category of con artist.

Most of his activities have been rooted in sin.


We know that you take every opportunity to trash
anyone who believe in God's word. But you do
not impress me. You are simply a man who seeks
to compromise the word of God, so that you can
promote your own sinful ways and claim that those
who believe the Bible are the ones who are in sin.


Hovind does not believe in God's word. I'm coming to suspect that you
don't either.

Some people don't believe in science. I'm coming
to suspect that you don't either.
--
I believe the Bible, period! If you don't,
that's up to you. But do not expect me to
consider your point of view valid. I am a
Christian and being a Christian means not
calling God a liar. When people claim that
this or that in the Bible isn't God's word,
what they are doing is trying to set themselves
up as judge and jury of what God said to man
and I would rather believe God, than believe
that you are some divine being who is here
to tell us what God has to say. That role
was already taken by Jesus. So I'm sorry,
but you lose and you have nothing by which
you can convince me otherwise! And if you
don't like what the Bible says, then get a
new god. But do not pretend to be a Christian!
.
User: "Dave Oldridge"

Title: Re: Is Kent Hovind a powerful evangelist or a false teacher? 10 Jan 2007 03:55:50 PM
Bible Believer <noway@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:f0aaq2l2p5q2g5njflt6uv1ha6la3tf0mp@4ax.com:

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 03:36:03 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> claimed:


Bible Believer <noway@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:2jo6q2l4fdoobsap3k0e2rmq1j8l40v0e8@4ax.com:

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 02:33:15 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> claimed:


Hovind's activities place him in the category of con artist.

Most of his activities have been rooted in sin.


We know that you take every opportunity to trash
anyone who believe in God's word. But you do
not impress me. You are simply a man who seeks
to compromise the word of God, so that you can
promote your own sinful ways and claim that those
who believe the Bible are the ones who are in sin.


Hovind does not believe in God's word. I'm coming to suspect that you
don't either.


Some people don't believe in science. I'm coming
to suspect that you don't either.

One doesn't "believe in" science. Science is a way of testing ideas
about the physical world. Religious heretics hate science because it
puts their heresies to the test of physical reality. Whatever they say
about God's creation has to square with that creation itself or they are
unmasked as false prophets.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
.

User: "Mike Painter"

Title: Re: Is Kent Hovind a powerful evangelist or a false teacher? 10 Jan 2007 01:52:58 PM
Bible Believer wrote:

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 03:36:03 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> claimed:


Bible Believer <noway@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:2jo6q2l4fdoobsap3k0e2rmq1j8l40v0e8@4ax.com:

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 02:33:15 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> claimed:


Hovind's activities place him in the category of con artist.

Most of his activities have been rooted in sin.


We know that you take every opportunity to trash
anyone who believe in God's word. But you do
not impress me. You are simply a man who seeks
to compromise the word of God, so that you can
promote your own sinful ways and claim that those
who believe the Bible are the ones who are in sin.


Hovind does not believe in God's word. I'm coming to suspect that
you don't either.


Some people don't believe in science. I'm coming
to suspect that you don't either.

You clearly accept only what you like and ignore what you don't like in both
science and religion. This is the same as the Spock approach "I love you,
but I hate you." and has the same merit
.



User: "Mozdev"

Title: Re: Is Kent Hovind a powerful evangelist or a false teacher? 09 Jan 2007 03:50:37 AM
Bible Believer wrote:

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 02:33:15 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> claimed:


Hovind's activities place him in the category of con artist.

Most of his activities have been rooted in sin.


We know that you take every opportunity to trash
anyone who believe in God's word.

Oops, you did it again, took 'God' for granted, begging the question.
That isn't allowed.
.

User: "John Baker"

Title: Re: Is Kent Hovind a powerful evangelist or a false teacher? 09 Jan 2007 02:36:12 AM
On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 01:44:44 -0800, Bible Believer <noway@nowhere.com>
wrote:

I believe the Bible, period! If you don't,
that's up to you. But do not expect me to
consider your point of view valid. I am a
Christian and being a Christian means not
calling God a liar. When people claim that
this or that in the Bible isn't God's word,
what they are doing is trying to set themselves
up as judge and jury of what God said to man
and I would rather believe God, than believe
that you are some divine being who is here
to tell us what God has to say. That role
was already taken by Jesus. So I'm sorry,
but you lose and you have nothing by which
you can convince me otherwise! And if you
don't like what the Bible says, then get a
new god. But do not pretend to be a Christian!

So why are *you* pretending to be a Christian? You don't worship a
god. You worship a book.
.
User: "Bible Believer"

Title: Re: Is Kent Hovind a powerful evangelist or a false teacher? 09 Jan 2007 02:03:11 PM
On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 03:36:12 -0500, John Baker
<nunya@bizniz.net> claimed:

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 01:44:44 -0800, Bible Believer <noway@nowhere.com>
wrote:

I believe the Bible, period! If you don't,
that's up to you. But do not expect me to
consider your point of view valid. I am a
Christian and being a Christian means not
calling God a liar. When people claim that
this or that in the Bible isn't God's word,
what they are doing is trying to set themselves
up as judge and jury of what God said to man
and I would rather believe God, than believe
that you are some divine being who is here
to tell us what God has to say. That role
was already taken by Jesus. So I'm sorry,
but you lose and you have nothing by which
you can convince me otherwise! And if you
don't like what the Bible says, then get a
new god. But do not pretend to be a Christian!


So why are *you* pretending to be a Christian? You don't worship a
god. You worship a book.

Claiming that I worship the Bible,
is just your attempt to avoid God's word.
You want to set your own rules and
pretend to be honest.
Goodbye.
--
I believe the Bible, period! If you don't,
that's up to you. But do not expect me to
consider your point of view valid. I am a
Christian and being a Christian means not
calling God a liar. When people claim that
this or that in the Bible isn't God's word,
what they are doing is trying to set themselves
up as judge and jury of what God said to man
and I would rather believe God, than believe
that you are some divine being who is here
to tell us what God has to say. That role
was already taken by Jesus. So I'm sorry,
but you lose and you have nothing by which
you can convince me otherwise! And if you
don't like what the Bible says, then get a
new god. But do not pretend to be a Christian!
.
User: "Dave Oldridge"

Title: Re: Is Kent Hovind a powerful evangelist or a false teacher? 09 Jan 2007 09:44:37 PM
Bible Believer <noway@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:b6t7q258optb35i6ukfs36n1o6v2aham3t@4ax.com:

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 03:36:12 -0500, John Baker
<nunya@bizniz.net> claimed:


On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 01:44:44 -0800, Bible Believer <noway@nowhere.com>
wrote:

I believe the Bible, period! If you don't,
that's up to you. But do not expect me to
consider your point of view valid. I am a
Christian and being a Christian means not
calling God a liar. When people claim that
this or that in the Bible isn't God's word,
what they are doing is trying to set themselves
up as judge and jury of what God said to man
and I would rather believe God, than believe
that you are some divine being who is here
to tell us what God has to say. That role
was already taken by Jesus. So I'm sorry,
but you lose and you have nothing by which
you can convince me otherwise! And if you
don't like what the Bible says, then get a
new god. But do not pretend to be a Christian!


So why are *you* pretending to be a Christian? You don't worship a
god. You worship a book.


Claiming that I worship the Bible,
is just your attempt to avoid God's word.

I have no problem with God and HIS word. Yours and Hovind's however
aren't worth the electricity it takes to get them here.

You want to set your own rules and
pretend to be honest.

No, that's exactly what YOU are doing. Nice try.

Goodbye.

Please put me in your killfile, too.
I will not, however, reciprocate.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
.
User: "Bible Believer"

Title: Re: Is Kent Hovind a powerful evangelist or a false teacher? 10 Jan 2007 11:53:05 AM
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 03:44:37 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> claimed:

Claiming that I worship the Bible,
is just your attempt to avoid God's word.


I have no problem with God and HIS word.

Since God's word contradicts evolution, yes, you do.
Tell me, which came first, the Sun? Or the Earth?
--
I believe the Bible, period! If you don't,
that's up to you. But do not expect me to
consider your point of view valid. I am a
Christian and being a Christian means not
calling God a liar. When people claim that
this or that in the Bible isn't God's word,
what they are doing is trying to set themselves
up as judge and jury of what God said to man
and I would rather believe God, than believe
that you are some divine being who is here
to tell us what God has to say. That role
was already taken by Jesus. So I'm sorry,
but you lose and you have nothing by which
you can convince me otherwise! And if you
don't like what the Bible says, then get a
new god. But do not pretend to be a Christian!
.
User: "Dave Oldridge"

Title: Re: Is Kent Hovind a powerful evangelist or a false teacher? 10 Jan 2007 03:58:05 PM
Bible Believer <noway@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:iu9aq2pnr4jl0oq2rclm1n8dlraeon4n7u@4ax.com:

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 03:44:37 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> claimed:


Claiming that I worship the Bible,
is just your attempt to avoid God's word.


I have no problem with God and HIS word.


Since God's word contradicts evolution, yes, you do.

You don't know God or His word, so how can you truthfully say this? The
answer is: you can't. You're a fake prophet.

Tell me, which came first, the Sun? Or the Earth?

The sun, although the materials that make up the earth were already in
orbit well before it was a star.
Once again, you reveal your ignorance by letting your private, literal
interpretation guide your prophecies about the physical universe.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
.

User: "John Baker"

Title: Re: Is Kent Hovind a powerful evangelist or a false teacher? 10 Jan 2007 05:06:28 PM
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 09:53:05 -0800, Bible Believer <noway@nowhere.com>
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 03:44:37 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> claimed:


Claiming that I worship the Bible,
is just your attempt to avoid God's word.


I have no problem with God and HIS word.


Since God's word contradicts evolution, yes, you do.

Unfortunately for you, all the evidence - and son, that's real,
testable *objective* evidence, not the made up crap you fundies try to
pass off - supports evolution, not creation. And when *facts* (i.e.
evolution) contradict *beliefs* (i.e. creationism)... guess which
one's wrong, Skippy.


Tell me, which came first, the Sun? Or the Earth?

.




User: "Therion Ware"

Title: Re: Is Kent Hovind a powerful evangelist or a false teacher? 09 Jan 2007 03:18:55 AM
On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 03:36:12 -0500, John Baker wrote in message
<ruk6q2pt9fullkj5buco50s46limegbisj@4ax.com>:

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 01:44:44 -0800, Bible Believer <noway@nowhere.com>
wrote:

I believe the Bible, period! If you don't,
that's up to you. But do not expect me to
consider your point of view valid. I am a
Christian and being a Christian means not
calling God a liar. When people claim that
this or that in the Bible isn't God's word,
what they are doing is trying to set themselves
up as judge and jury of what God said to man
and I would rather believe God, than believe
that you are some divine being who is here
to tell us what God has to say. That role
was already taken by Jesus. So I'm sorry,
but you lose and you have nothing by which
you can convince me otherwise! And if you
don't like what the Bible says, then get a
new god. But do not pretend to be a Christian!


So why are *you* pretending to be a Christian? You don't worship a
god. You worship a book.

Actually his own interpretation of a book, which is to say himself.
--
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".
attrib: Pauline Réage.
-
www.eac-nudis.com = Evil Atheist Conspiracy NNTP / Usenet Distributed Intelligence System...
.
User: "Dave Oldridge"

Title: Re: Is Kent Hovind a powerful evangelist or a false teacher? 09 Jan 2007 09:43:16 PM
Therion Ware <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in
news:odn6q2t573dpp2agqli2n5rn42uit1caqq@4ax.com:


On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 03:36:12 -0500, John Baker wrote in message
<ruk6q2pt9fullkj5buco50s46limegbisj@4ax.com>:


On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 01:44:44 -0800, Bible Believer <noway@nowhere.com>
wrote:

I believe the Bible, period! If you don't,
that's up to you. But do not expect me to
consider your point of view valid. I am a
Christian and being a Christian means not
calling God a liar. When people claim that
this or that in the Bible isn't God's word,
what they are doing is trying to set themselves
up as judge and jury of what God said to man
and I would rather believe God, than believe
that you are some divine being who is here
to tell us what God has to say. That role
was already taken by Jesus. So I'm sorry,
but you lose and you have nothing by which
you can convince me otherwise! And if you
don't like what the Bible says, then get a
new god. But do not pretend to be a Christian!


So why are *you* pretending to be a Christian? You don't worship a
god. You worship a book.



Actually his own interpretation of a book, which is to say himself.

Yes, poke one of these latter-day young-earth creationist ideologues hard
enough and you will discover that his true religion is narcissism.
That means that he can easily prove the REALITY of his god. It's the
divinity that nobody will believe!
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
.



User: "Don Martin"

Title: Re: Is Kent Hovind a powerful evangelist or a false teacher? 10 Jan 2007 08:14:34 PM
On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 01:44:44 -0800, Bible Believer <noway@nowhere.com>
wrote:

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 02:33:15 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> claimed:


Hovind's activities place him in the category of con artist.

Most of his activities have been rooted in sin.


We know that you take every opportunity to trash
anyone who believe in God's word. But you do
not impress me.

And anyone's interest in impressing you is based upon what, exactly?
Through a jaundiced eye darkly--rheum with a view.
The Squeeky Wheel
http://home.comcast.net/~drdonmartin/
.

User: "raven1"

Title: Re: Is Kent Hovind a powerful evangelist or a false teacher? 09 Jan 2007 01:14:38 AM
On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 01:44:44 -0800, Bible Believer <noway@nowhere.com>
wrote:

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 02:33:15 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> claimed:


Hovind's activities place him in the category of con artist.

Most of his activities have been rooted in sin.


We know that you take every opportunity to trash
anyone who believe in God's word. But you do
not impress me. You are simply a man who seeks
to compromise the word of God, so that you can
promote your own sinful ways and claim that those
who believe the Bible are the ones who are in sin.

When a literal reading of the Bible contradicts observed reality, you
might want to consider that reality is not to blame. What's really
sinful is not using the brain that God gave you to figure that out.


And don't bother telling us that you believe the Bible.
You do not.

Well by the same token, don't bother telling us that you believe in
God. You don't; you believe in a book that men wrote about Him, which
is idolatry, plain and simple.


And as far as I'm concerned, theistic evolutionists are
out to please men, rather than God. They claim to
believe in a virgin birth, people rising from the dead,
water turned into wine and yet, they don't believe
that God created the heaven and the earth in six
literal days, thereby making hypocrites of themselves.
Why?

Because the evidence that God Himself left behind clearly indicates
that the Earth is billions of years old, and that life evolved,
whereas the idea of a literal six-day Creation is based on one
interpretation of a book written about God, by men who had no
knowledge of the scientific evidence, and in any case, were writing to
illustrate a moral point rather than recount literal history.
--
"O Sybilli, si ergo
Fortibus es in ero
O Nobili! Themis trux
Sivat sinem? Causen Dux"
.
User: "Bible Believer"

Title: Re: Is Kent Hovind a powerful evangelist or a false teacher? 09 Jan 2007 02:02:11 PM
On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 02:14:38 -0500, raven1
<quoththeraven@nevermore.com> claimed:

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 01:44:44 -0800, Bible Believer
<noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 02:33:15 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> claimed:


Hovind's activities place him in the category of con artist.

Most of his activities have been rooted in sin.


We know that you take every opportunity to trash
anyone who believe in God's word. But you do
not impress me. You are simply a man who seeks
to compromise the word of God, so that you can
promote your own sinful ways and claim that those
who believe the Bible are the ones who are in sin.


When a literal reading of the Bible contradicts observed reality,

Macroevolution has never been observed.
So don't pretend that it has been.
--
I believe the Bible, period! If you don't,
that's up to you. But do not expect me to
consider your point of view valid. I am a
Christian and being a Christian means not
calling God a liar. When people claim that
this or that in the Bible isn't God's word,
what they are doing is trying to set themselves
up as judge and jury of what God said to man
and I would rather believe God, than believe
that you are some divine being who is here
to tell us what God has to say. That role
was already taken by Jesus. So I'm sorry,
but you lose and you have nothing by which
you can convince me otherwise! And if you
don't like what the Bible says, then get a
new god. But do not pretend to be a Christian!
.
User: "Fackeltänze"

Title: "Macroevolution has never been observed" -- Creationist 09 Jan 2007 12:26:07 PM
"Bible Believer" <noway@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:55t7q2d65ptfbg0psuoirmp7i0g4dtu0re@4ax.com...

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 02:14:38 -0500, raven1
<quoththeraven@nevermore.com> claimed:


On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 01:44:44 -0800, Bible Believer
<noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 02:33:15 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> claimed:


Hovind's activities place him in the category of con artist.

Most of his activities have been rooted in sin.


We know that you take every opportunity to trash
anyone who believe in God's word. But you do
not impress me. You are simply a man who seeks
to compromise the word of God, so that you can
promote your own sinful ways and claim that those
who believe the Bible are the ones who are in sin.


When a literal reading of the Bible contradicts observed reality,


Macroevolution has never been observed.

You haven't been keeping up on your homework reading. See "29+ Evidences for
Macroevolution"
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

.

User: "Dave Oldridge"

Title: Re: Is Kent Hovind a powerful evangelist or a false teacher? 09 Jan 2007 09:40:46 PM
Bible Believer <noway@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:55t7q2d65ptfbg0psuoirmp7i0g4dtu0re@4ax.com:

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 02:14:38 -0500, raven1
<quoththeraven@nevermore.com> claimed:


On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 01:44:44 -0800, Bible Believer
<noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 02:33:15 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> claimed:


Hovind's activities place him in the category of con artist.

Most of his activities have been rooted in sin.


We know that you take every opportunity to trash
anyone who believe in God's word. But you do
not impress me. You are simply a man who seeks
to compromise the word of God, so that you can
promote your own sinful ways and claim that those
who believe the Bible are the ones who are in sin.


When a literal reading of the Bible contradicts observed reality,


Macroevolution has never been observed.
So don't pretend that it has been.

Tell yourself this lie often and loudly and you may even come to believe
it.
But don't tell it to me. And don't bother to tell God I didn't warn you
that it's a lie. The genomes of humans and chimps PROVE, beyond
reasonable doubt that we share a common ancestor. And if your contention
is that the proof is because of common design, then you have just
admitted that you believe in a malicious, incompetent deity of some sort.
No, if you want to say that humans, chimps, gorillas and, in fact, all
anthropoidea are of ONE KIND, I'd have to discuss that some more. But at
the moment we have good inferential proof of common ancestry. If you
don't understand WHY God chose that method, I'd suggest you ask Him, but
then you're not really listening to HIM, just to your own cult leaders
and their private interpretations of scripture.
Where does God give you plenary indulgence to lie about the scientific
evidence? Because that's what Hovind has been doing.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
.

User: "Christopher A.Lee"

Title: Re: Is Kent Hovind a powerful evangelist or a false teacher? 09 Jan 2007 11:55:37 AM
On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 12:02:11 -0800, Bible Believer <noway@nowhere.com>
wrote:

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 02:14:38 -0500, raven1
<quoththeraven@nevermore.com> claimed:


On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 01:44:44 -0800, Bible Believer
<noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 02:33:15 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> claimed:


Hovind's activities place him in the category of con artist.

Most of his activities have been rooted in sin.


We know that you take every opportunity to trash
anyone who believe in God's word. But you do
not impress me. You are simply a man who seeks
to compromise the word of God, so that you can
promote your own sinful ways and claim that those
who believe the Bible are the ones who are in sin.


When a literal reading of the Bible contradicts observed reality,


Macroevolution has never been observed.
So don't pretend that it has been.

A liar as well as an idiot. Are there any honest creationists?
.
User: "Dave Oldridge"

Title: Re: Is Kent Hovind a powerful evangelist or a false teacher? 09 Jan 2007 09:41:34 PM
Christopher A.Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in
news:2ol7q2d8k4j4hqdlp16c1fl4rufsnoqkel@4ax.com:

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 12:02:11 -0800, Bible Believer <noway@nowhere.com>
wrote:

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 02:14:38 -0500, raven1
<quoththeraven@nevermore.com> claimed:


On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 01:44:44 -0800, Bible Believer
<noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 02:33:15 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> claimed:


Hovind's activities place him in the category of con artist.

Most of his activities have been rooted in sin.


We know that you take every opportunity to trash
anyone who believe in God's word. But you do
not impress me. You are simply a man who seeks
to compromise the word of God, so that you can
promote your own sinful ways and claim that those
who believe the Bible are the ones who are in sin.


When a literal reading of the Bible contradicts observed reality,


Macroevolution has never been observed.
So don't pretend that it has been.


A liar as well as an idiot. Are there any honest creationists?

I've found a couple of them over the years. One of them is now an
atheist, the other a theistic evolutionist.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
.

User: "Bible Believer"

Title: Re: Is Kent Hovind a powerful evangelist or a false teacher? 09 Jan 2007 04:38:05 PM
On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 12:55:37 -0500, Christopher A.Lee
<calee@optonline.net> claimed:

Macroevolution has never been observed.
So don't pretend that it has been.


A liar as well as an idiot.

Listen, ***** monkey... you cannot show us one single
chain of macroevolution, from one kind to another.
Now go bite yourself.
--
I believe the Bible, period! If you don't,
that's up to you. But do not expect me to
consider your point of view valid. I am a
Christian and being a Christian means not
calling God a liar. When people claim that
this or that in the Bible isn't God's word,
what they are doing is trying to set themselves
up as judge and jury of what God said to man
and I would rather believe God, than believe
that you are some divine being who is here
to tell us what God has to say. That role
was already taken by Jesus. So I'm sorry,
but you lose and you have nothing by which
you can convince me otherwise! And if you
don't like what the Bible says, then get a
new god. But do not pretend to be a Christian!
.
User: "Hollis Brown"

Title: Re: Is Kent Hovind a powerful evangelist or a false teacher? 10 Jan 2007 09:06:36 AM
Bible Believer wrote:


Listen, ***** monkey...

Wow! That's just what Jesus said!
HB
.

User: "Christopher A.Lee"

Title: Re: Is Kent Hovind a powerful evangelist or a false teacher? 09 Jan 2007 02:17:30 PM
On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 14:38:05 -0800, Bible Believer <noway@nowhere.com>
wrote:

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 12:55:37 -0500, Christopher A.Lee
<calee@optonline.net> claimed:


Macroevolution has never been observed.
So don't pretend that it has been.


A liar as well as an idiot.


Listen, ***** monkey... you cannot show us one single
chain of macroevolution, from one kind to another.

Listen, religiously motivated liar, "macroevolution" is a creationist
canard. However speciation has been observed in the lab and in the
field. Go to talk.origins for details.
The very word evolution was coined as the label for the observed
change and divergence including at the species level, in fossil
collections at least a couple of hundred years ago.
Now, get yourself an education and stop parading your self-imposed
ignorance.

Now go bite yourself.

Such Christian love from the whining hypocrite.
.


User: "John Baker"

Title: Re: Is Kent Hovind a powerful evangelist or a false teacher? 09 Jan 2007 12:36:57 PM
On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 12:55:37 -0500, Christopher A.Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 12:02:11 -0800, Bible Believer <noway@nowhere.com>
wrote:

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 02:14:38 -0500, raven1
<quoththeraven@nevermore.com> claimed:


On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 01:44:44 -0800, Bible Believer
<noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 02:33:15 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> claimed:


Hovind's activities place him in the category of con artist.

Most of his activities have been rooted in sin.


We know that you take every opportunity to trash
anyone who believe in God's word. But you do
not impress me. You are simply a man who seeks
to compromise the word of God, so that you can
promote your own sinful ways and claim that those
who believe the Bible are the ones who are in sin.


When a literal reading of the Bible contradicts observed reality,


Macroevolution has never been observed.
So don't pretend that it has been.


A liar as well as an idiot. Are there any honest creationists?

Odd, isn't it, how those who claim to be the most devout Christians
are always the least Christ like?
.


User: "raven1"

Title: Re: Is Kent Hovind a powerful evangelist or a false teacher? 10 Jan 2007 01:06:06 AM
On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 12:02:11 -0800, Bible Believer <noway@nowhere.com>
wrote:

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 02:14:38 -0500, raven1
<quoththeraven@nevermore.com> claimed:


On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 01:44:44 -0800, Bible Believer
<noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 02:33:15 GMT, Dave Oldridge
<doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> claimed:


Hovind's activities place him in the category of con artist.

Most of his activities have been rooted in sin.


We know that you take every opportunity to trash
anyone who believe in God's word. But you do
not impress me. You are simply a man who seeks
to compromise the word of God, so that you can
promote your own sinful ways and claim that those
who believe the Bible are the ones who are in sin.


When a literal reading of the Bible contradicts observed reality,


Macroevolution has never been observed.
So don't pretend that it has been.

Please specify what you mean by "macroevolution", and what barrier you
think prevents millions of years of "microevolution" from adding up to
it.
--
"O Sybilli, si ergo
Fortibus es in ero
O Nobili! Themis trux
Sivat sinem? Causen Dux"
.
User: "Bible Believer"

Title: Re: Is Kent Hovind a powerful evangelist or a false teacher? 10 Jan 2007 11:52:01 AM
On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 02:06:06 -0500, raven1
<quoththeraven@nevermore.com> claimed:

Macroevolution has never been observed.
So don't pretend that it has been.


Please specify what you mean by "macroevolution", and what barrier you
think prevents millions of years of "microevolution" from adding up to
it.

Translation: You're right, we have no evidence.
So we'll try to turn the tables and pretend that
the burden of proof is on the other guy.
Goodbye, liar.
--
I believe the Bible, period! If you don't,
that's up to you. But do not expect me to
consider your point of view valid. I am a
Christian and being a Christian means not
calling God a liar. When people claim that
this or that in the Bible isn't God's word,
what they are doing is trying to set themselves
up as judge and jury of what God said to man
and I would rather believe God, than believe
that you are some divine being who is here
to tell us what God has to say. That role
was already taken by Jesus. So I'm sorry,
but you lose and you have nothing by which
you can convince me otherwise! And if you
don't like what the Bible says, then get a
new god. But do not pretend to be a Christian!
.
User: "Dave Oldridge"

Title: Re: Is Kent Hovind a powerful evangelist or a false teacher? 10 Jan 2007 03:59:38 PM
Bible Believer <noway@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:ks9aq2hstonv36lr0b6q4elgogo9kaf8jj@4ax.com:

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 02:06:06 -0500, raven1
<quoththeraven@nevermore.com> claimed:


Macroevolution has never been observed.
So don't pretend that it has been.


Please specify what you mean by "macroevolution", and what barrier you
think prevents millions of years of "microevolution" from adding up to
it.


Translation: You're right, we have no evidence.

So you admit to lying about this.

So we'll try to turn the tables and pretend that
the burden of proof is on the other guy.
Goodbye, liar.

Moreover, you gratuitously accuse another of the sin you are addicted to.
Good luck with that on the day of judgment, by the way.
Because, when you meet God (for the very first time, it seems), He will
demand of you satisfaction for all your unrepented sins.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
.








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