| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Budikka666" |
| Date: |
11 Mar 2007 01:06:58 PM |
| Object: |
Is Life Just Pollution of the Universe? |
http://tinyurl.com/2kvgsn
--- Begin quote ---
not only are we not at the center of anything; we're not even made of
the same stuff as most of the rest of everything. "We're just a bit of
pollution," Lawrence M. Krauss, a theorist at Case Western Reserve,
said not long ago at a public panel on cosmology in Chicago. "If you
got rid of us, and all the stars and all the galaxies and all the
planets and all the aliens and everybody, then the universe would be
largely the same. We're completely irrelevant."
--- End Quote ---
Lawrence M. Krauss is the author of "The Physics of Star Trek" (http://
tinyurl.com/2qohns), its sequel, and many other books. He's also
spoken out strongly against bringing creation and ID into schools.
In the article referenced above, he's just a quote in an article about
dark matter and dark energy.
These two items (and since matter is effectively just "frozen" energy,
they're really the same thing) make up the overwhelming bulk of the
unvierse. Not living things. Not matter. Not energy. All of that
is insignificant in comparison - just 4% or so of everything.
Budikka
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Is Life Just Pollution of the Universe? |
12 Mar 2007 12:21:17 AM |
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In article <1173636418.544584.160270@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>,
"Budikka666" <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote:
http://tinyurl.com/2kvgsn
--- Begin quote ---
not only are we not at the center of anything; we're not even made of
the same stuff as most of the rest of everything. "We're just a bit of
pollution," Lawrence M. Krauss, a theorist at Case Western Reserve,
said not long ago at a public panel on cosmology in Chicago. "If you
got rid of us, and all the stars and all the galaxies and all the
planets and all the aliens and everybody, then the universe would be
largely the same. We're completely irrelevant."
--- End Quote ---
Lawrence M. Krauss is the author of "The Physics of Star Trek" (http://
tinyurl.com/2qohns), its sequel, and many other books. He's also
spoken out strongly against bringing creation and ID into schools.
In the article referenced above, he's just a quote in an article about
dark matter and dark energy.
These two items (and since matter is effectively just "frozen" energy,
they're really the same thing) make up the overwhelming bulk of the
unvierse. Not living things. Not matter. Not energy. All of that
is insignificant in comparison - just 4% or so of everything.
Another argument against ID and the anthropic principle. If an
intelligent designer made the universe just for us, why do we need all
of this other 'stuff' around?
--
John #1782
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order.
.
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| User: "Budikka666" |
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| Title: Re: Is Life Just Pollution of the Universe? |
12 Mar 2007 12:44:49 AM |
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On Mar 11, 11:21 pm, johac <jhachm...@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <1173636418.544584.160...@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>,
"Budikka666" <budik...@netscape.net> wrote:
http://tinyurl.com/2kvgsn
--- Begin quote ---
not only are we not at the center of anything; we're not even made of
the same stuff as most of the rest of everything. "We're just a bit of
pollution," Lawrence M. Krauss, a theorist at Case Western Reserve,
said not long ago at a public panel on cosmology in Chicago. "If you
got rid of us, and all the stars and all the galaxies and all the
planets and all the aliens and everybody, then the universe would be
largely the same. We're completely irrelevant."
--- End Quote ---
Lawrence M. Krauss is the author of "The Physics of Star Trek" (http://
tinyurl.com/2qohns), its sequel, and many other books. He's also
spoken out strongly against bringing creation and ID into schools.
In the article referenced above, he's just a quote in an article about
dark matter and dark energy.
These two items (and since matter is effectively just "frozen" energy,
they're really the same thing) make up the overwhelming bulk of the
unvierse. Not living things. Not matter. Not energy. All of that
is insignificant in comparison - just 4% or so of everything.
Another argument against ID and the anthropic principle. If an
intelligent designer made the universe just for us, why do we need all
of this other 'stuff' around?
--
John #1782
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order.
That actually ties nicely with Panama Floyd's quote from "Contact'.
In the movie version, where Ellie transits to where the signal is
coming from (and the book and movie sadly start to fizzle!) and she's
on the beach, she sees the most beautiful sky imaginable, and can
actually touch it and see ripples go through it.
Why couldn't a designer come up with something like that? All people
saw until human ingenuity created telescopes, was immense blackness
with a few twinkles here and there.
With current technology there's little hope of ever being able to
visit these places and see some of the real beauty close up, so why
didn't this god make detail and color and overwhelming beauty much
more readily accessible? Why don't we see amazing colors and sights
that would make the psychedelic sixties look drab?
It ought to be a breeze for any god worth the name to set this up, yet
overall, space is actually a very drab and grey place with small
splashes of pale color here and there. And it's immense - almost
unimaginably immense, and cold and hostile.
The magnificent images we see from NASA, such as the famous "Pillars
of Creation" image, are artificially colored for various scientific
reasons, aesthetics being last on the list. Where was this god's
imagination? Obviously nowhere in evidence.
Budikka
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Is Life Just Pollution of the Universe? |
12 Mar 2007 06:36:41 PM |
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In article <1173678289.691502.285290@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com>,
"Budikka666" <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote:
On Mar 11, 11:21 pm, johac <jhachm...@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In article <1173636418.544584.160...@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>,
"Budikka666" <budik...@netscape.net> wrote:
http://tinyurl.com/2kvgsn
--- Begin quote ---
not only are we not at the center of anything; we're not even made of
the same stuff as most of the rest of everything. "We're just a bit of
pollution," Lawrence M. Krauss, a theorist at Case Western Reserve,
said not long ago at a public panel on cosmology in Chicago. "If you
got rid of us, and all the stars and all the galaxies and all the
planets and all the aliens and everybody, then the universe would be
largely the same. We're completely irrelevant."
--- End Quote ---
Lawrence M. Krauss is the author of "The Physics of Star Trek" (http://
tinyurl.com/2qohns), its sequel, and many other books. He's also
spoken out strongly against bringing creation and ID into schools.
In the article referenced above, he's just a quote in an article about
dark matter and dark energy.
These two items (and since matter is effectively just "frozen" energy,
they're really the same thing) make up the overwhelming bulk of the
unvierse. Not living things. Not matter. Not energy. All of that
is insignificant in comparison - just 4% or so of everything.
Another argument against ID and the anthropic principle. If an
intelligent designer made the universe just for us, why do we need all
of this other 'stuff' around?
--
John #1782
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order.
That actually ties nicely with Panama Floyd's quote from "Contact'.
In the movie version, where Ellie transits to where the signal is
coming from (and the book and movie sadly start to fizzle!) and she's
on the beach, she sees the most beautiful sky imaginable, and can
actually touch it and see ripples go through it.
Why couldn't a designer come up with something like that? All people
saw until human ingenuity created telescopes, was immense blackness
with a few twinkles here and there.
With current technology there's little hope of ever being able to
visit these places and see some of the real beauty close up, so why
didn't this god make detail and color and overwhelming beauty much
more readily accessible? Why don't we see amazing colors and sights
that would make the psychedelic sixties look drab?
It ought to be a breeze for any god worth the name to set this up, yet
overall, space is actually a very drab and grey place with small
splashes of pale color here and there. And it's immense - almost
unimaginably immense, and cold and hostile.
The magnificent images we see from NASA, such as the famous "Pillars
of Creation" image, are artificially colored for various scientific
reasons, aesthetics being last on the list. Where was this god's
imagination? Obviously nowhere in evidence.
This also ties in with the book I'm currently reading, "God: The Failed
Hypothesis" by Victor Stenger. He argues that the fact that we live
isolated on a tiny flyspeck in a remote corner of a vast universe, as
far as we can tell mostly inhospitable to life, is an argument against
design or an intelligent god.
It's a good book and I would recommend it.
Budikka
--
John #1782
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Is Life Just Pollution of the Universe? |
11 Mar 2007 03:22:35 PM |
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On Mar 11, 2:06 pm, "Budikka666" <budik...@netscape.net> wrote:
http://tinyurl.com/2kvgsn
--- Begin quote ---
not only are we not at the center of anything; we're not even made of
the same stuff as most of the rest of everything. "We're just a bit of
pollution," Lawrence M. Krauss, a theorist at Case Western Reserve,
said not long ago at a public panel on cosmology in Chicago. "If you
got rid of us, and all the stars and all the galaxies and all the
planets and all the aliens and everybody, then the universe would be
largely the same. We're completely irrelevant."
--- End Quote ---
Lawrence M. Krauss is the author of "The Physics of Star Trek" (http://
tinyurl.com/2qohns), its sequel, and many other books. He's also
spoken out strongly against bringing creation and ID into schools.
In the article referenced above, he's just a quote in an article about
dark matter and dark energy.
These two items (and since matter is effectively just "frozen" energy,
they're really the same thing) make up the overwhelming bulk of the
unvierse. Not living things. Not matter. Not energy. All of that
is insignificant in comparison - just 4% or so of everything.
Y'know, I find the sheer distances absolutely astonishing. I never
(even though I've been interested in space science my entire life)
really realized the concept until I read Douglas Adams' HGTG. IIRC, he
described the scale as "between a walnut in New York and a Brazil nut
in Johannesburg", or something like that.
Like Ellie Arroway says...if it's empty, seems like an awful big waste
of space..<g>
-Panama Floyd, Atlanta
aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
EAC Martian Commander
Plonked by Kadaitcha Man Sept 06
"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain
Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones:
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Is Life Just Pollution of the Universe? |
11 Mar 2007 06:44:22 PM |
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On 11 Mar 2007 13:22:35 -0700, wrote:
On Mar 11, 2:06 pm, "Budikka666" <budik...@netscape.net> wrote:
http://tinyurl.com/2kvgsn
--- Begin quote ---
not only are we not at the center of anything; we're not even made of
the same stuff as most of the rest of everything. "We're just a bit of
pollution," Lawrence M. Krauss, a theorist at Case Western Reserve,
said not long ago at a public panel on cosmology in Chicago. "If you
got rid of us, and all the stars and all the galaxies and all the
planets and all the aliens and everybody, then the universe would be
largely the same. We're completely irrelevant."
--- End Quote ---
Lawrence M. Krauss is the author of "The Physics of Star Trek" (http://
tinyurl.com/2qohns), its sequel, and many other books. He's also
spoken out strongly against bringing creation and ID into schools.
In the article referenced above, he's just a quote in an article about
dark matter and dark energy.
These two items (and since matter is effectively just "frozen" energy,
they're really the same thing) make up the overwhelming bulk of the
unvierse. Not living things. Not matter. Not energy. All of that
is insignificant in comparison - just 4% or so of everything.
Y'know, I find the sheer distances absolutely astonishing. I never
(even though I've been interested in space science my entire life)
really realized the concept until I read Douglas Adams' HGTG. IIRC, he
described the scale as "between a walnut in New York and a Brazil nut
in Johannesburg", or something like that.
Like Ellie Arroway says...if it's empty, seems like an awful big waste
of space..<g>
Sorta like the 6 inches of vacuum between bud the dud's ears.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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