| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"donquijote1954" |
| Date: |
30 Nov 2007 12:28:45 PM |
| Object: |
Is the rejection of Evolution a form of Racism? |
The answer seems obvious to me: IT IS! When we accept human evolution,
we accept that our ancestors are African, not Middle Eastern...
The science of it all is so evident that only the ugly head of racism
disguised under the veil of religiosity can hide it. I don't have a
problem: I already feel a monkey! Do you?
http://www.zazzle.com/donquijote1954/product/235602224199217660?CMPN=AssociateZazzlePanel
"During much of the long history of apartheid in South Africa,
evolution was not allowed to be taught. The Christian National
Education system, formalized in 1948 and accepted as national policy
from 1967 to 1993, stated, among other things, that white children
should 'receive a separate education from black children to prepare
them for their respective superior and inferior positions in South
African social and economic life, and all education should be based on
Christian National principles' (Esterhuysen and Smith 1998).
The policy excluded the concept of evolution, taught a version of
history that negatively characterized non-whites, and made Bible
education, including the teaching of creationism, and religious
assemblies compulsory (Esterhuysen and Smith 1998)."
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA005.html
WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE
http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote
THE BANANA REVOLUTION ;)
http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote40
.
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| User: "Brian E. Clark" |
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| Title: Re: Is the rejection of Evolution a form of Racism? |
30 Nov 2007 09:47:59 PM |
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In article <32205b74-734a-4f43-a614-
a6bc3072704f@r60g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
donquijote1954 said...
The answer seems obvious to me: IT IS! When we accept
human evolution, we accept that our ancestors are
African, not Middle Eastern...
I disagree. A person may indeed reject evolution for a
racist reason, I.e., because current scientific
opinion contends that human ancestors came from
Africa. The arrow doesn't point the other way,
however. It's easy to spot the problem if the argument
is written out:
A rejects X.
B rejects X.
Therefore, B=A
Your version would go something like:
Racists reject evolution.
Fundamentalists (for example) reject evolution.
Therefore fundamentalists are racists.
But you can quickly spot the problem with:
Evangelicals reject infant baptism.
Atheists reject infant baptism.
Therefore atheists are evangelicals.
--
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Brian E. Clark
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| User: "brian fletcher" |
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| Title: Re: Is the rejection of Evolution a form of Racism? |
02 Dec 2007 01:26:32 AM |
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No, just a form of ignorance.....
I have evolved to the level where I can respect "their" pov.
BOfL
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| User: "donquijote1954" |
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| Title: Re: Is the rejection of Evolution a form of Racism? |
02 Dec 2007 05:17:59 PM |
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On Dec 2, 2:26 am, "brian fletcher" <brian...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
No, just a form of ignorance.....
I have evolved to the level where I can respect "their" pov.
BOfL
Most campaign issues (eg. abortion and gay marriages) for the RR
(religious republicans) though is about having their pov imposed on
the rest of the population. And their economic agenda is pure Social
Darwinism.
Otherwise, they wouldn't be that dangerous.
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| User: "tg" |
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| Title: Re: Is the rejection of Evolution a form of Racism? |
01 Dec 2007 05:14:27 AM |
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On Nov 30, 10:47 pm, Brian E. Clark <re...@newsgroup.only.please>
wrote:
In article <32205b74-734a-4f43-a614-
a6bc30727...@r60g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
donquijote1954 said...
The answer seems obvious to me: IT IS! When we accept
human evolution, we accept that our ancestors are
African, not Middle Eastern...
I disagree. A person may indeed reject evolution for a
racist reason, I.e., because current scientific
opinion contends that human ancestors came from
Africa. The arrow doesn't point the other way,
however. It's easy to spot the problem if the argument
is written out:
A rejects X.
B rejects X.
Therefore, B=A
Your version would go something like:
Racists reject evolution.
Fundamentalists (for example) reject evolution.
Therefore fundamentalists are racists.
I don't see that the author made this argument.
It is true that racism is not a sufficient condition for being a
fundamentalist, but, as someone mentioned, there is the idea of
'kinds' which is part of the anti-evolution argument; it certainly is
consistent with racist thinking. So we should ask rather why people
become fundamentalists (or stay so when raised that way.)
Authoritarian psychology is rooted in feelings of inferiority and
inadequacy, and it only takes a look at the map of the US to see the
overlap of red states, slave states/territories, and fundamentalism.
It is not a logical fallacy to recognize a suite of associated
symptoms and hypothesize that they have a common cause.
-tg
But you can quickly spot the problem with:
Evangelicals reject infant baptism.
Atheists reject infant baptism.
Therefore atheists are evangelicals.
--
-----------
Brian E. Clark
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| User: "donquijote1954" |
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| Title: Re: Is the rejection of Evolution a form of Racism? |
01 Dec 2007 10:42:21 AM |
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On Nov 30, 10:47 pm, Brian E. Clark <re...@newsgroup.only.please>
wrote:
In article <32205b74-734a-4f43-a614-
a6bc30727...@r60g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
donquijote1954 said...
The answer seems obvious to me: IT IS! When we accept
human evolution, we accept that our ancestors are
African, not Middle Eastern...
I disagree. A person may indeed reject evolution for a
racist reason, I.e., because current scientific
opinion contends that human ancestors came from
Africa. The arrow doesn't point the other way,
however. It's easy to spot the problem if the argument
is written out:
A rejects X.
B rejects X.
Therefore, B=A
Let me give you a practical example:
A voted for X (who's for war and against taking care of the
environment)
X went to war with another people (a darker people with another
religion)
A re-elected X
Therefore A is for war, and shows their racist attributes. So A=X!
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| User: "donquijote1954" |
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| Title: Re: Is the rejection of Evolution a form of Racism? |
01 Dec 2007 11:09:18 AM |
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On Nov 30, 10:19 pm, OldMan <edjarr...@msn.com> wrote:
Racism existed before the theory of evolution was even postulated,
still does, even amongst people who accept evolution. Likewise, there
are people who reject evolution, but are not racists.-
I agree.
I know some religious people are not racists, but their religion is.
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good
things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do
evil things, that takes religion."
Steven Weinberg (1933 - ), quoted in The New York Times, April 20,
1999
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| User: "Immortalist" |
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| Title: Re: Is the rejection of Evolution a form of Racism? |
01 Dec 2007 12:32:03 AM |
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On Nov 30, 10:28 am, donquijote1954 <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
The answer seems obvious to me: IT IS! When we accept human evolution,
we accept that our ancestors are African, not Middle Eastern...
The science of it all is so evident that only the ugly head of racism
disguised under the veil of religiosity can hide it. I don't have a
problem: I already feel a monkey! Do you?
http://www.zazzle.com/donquijote1954/product/235602224199217660?CMPN=...
Although the idea that the theory of evolution as a form of racism is
sufficient for the explaination of some motives for rejecting the
theory, it is not necessary for a more complete group of motives for
rejecting evolution.
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| User: "L. Raymond" |
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| Title: Re: Is the rejection of Evolution a form of Racism? |
01 Dec 2007 12:37:37 AM |
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Immortalist wrote:
On Nov 30, 10:28 am, donquijote1954 <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
The answer seems obvious to me: IT IS! When we accept human evolution,
we accept that our ancestors are African, not Middle Eastern...
The science of it all is so evident that only the ugly head of racism
disguised under the veil of religiosity can hide it. I don't have a
problem: I already feel a monkey! Do you?
http://www.zazzle.com/donquijote1954/product/235602224199217660?CMPN=...
Although the idea that the theory of evolution as a form of racism is
sufficient for the explaination of some motives for rejecting the
theory, it is not necessary for a more complete group of motives for
rejecting evolution.
The only motive for rejecting evolution is ignorance.
--
L. Raymond
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| User: "donquijote1954" |
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| Title: Re: Is the rejection of Evolution a form of Racism? |
01 Dec 2007 10:45:05 AM |
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On Dec 1, 1:37 am, "L. Raymond" <badaddress@....com> wrote:
Immortalist wrote:
On Nov 30, 10:28 am, donquijote1954 <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
The answer seems obvious to me: IT IS! When we accept human evolution,
we accept that our ancestors are African, not Middle Eastern...
The science of it all is so evident that only the ugly head of racism
disguised under the veil of religiosity can hide it. I don't have a
problem: I already feel a monkey! Do you?
http://www.zazzle.com/donquijote1954/product/235602224199217660?CMPN=...
Although the idea that the theory of evolution as a form of racism is
sufficient for the explaination of some motives for rejecting the
theory, it is not necessary for a more complete group of motives for
rejecting evolution.
The only motive for rejecting evolution is ignorance.
No, it's only one motive. It's also commitment to a group --feeling
they belong somewhere.
I suggest Atheists gather on Sundays and socialize and have a little
picnic or something. ;)
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| User: "Immortalist" |
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| Title: Re: Is the rejection of Evolution a form of Racism? |
01 Dec 2007 01:01:13 AM |
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On Nov 30, 10:37 pm, "L. Raymond" <badaddress@....com> wrote:
Immortalist wrote:
On Nov 30, 10:28 am, donquijote1954 <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
The answer seems obvious to me: IT IS! When we accept human evolution,
we accept that our ancestors are African, not Middle Eastern...
The science of it all is so evident that only the ugly head of racism
disguised under the veil of religiosity can hide it. I don't have a
problem: I already feel a monkey! Do you?
http://www.zazzle.com/donquijote1954/product/235602224199217660?CMPN=...
Although the idea that the theory of evolution as a form of racism is
sufficient for the explaination of some motives for rejecting the
theory, it is not necessary for a more complete group of motives for
rejecting evolution.
The only motive for rejecting evolution is ignorance.
The question is, what constitutes "rejecting" it? If it is a theory
there are other theories that one may choose. Personally I think that
the theory of evolution is the best explaination so far but...
"...how can we know that the universe wasn't created a few minutes ago?
"
--Bertrand Russell
....suppose the universe were suddenly created five minutes ago,
complete with memories, historical and geological records, and so
forth. That is, at the moment of creation, the universe would have all
the evidence that it was billions of years old already "packed in."
How could it ever be known that the creation of the universe did not
occur five minutes ago?
The hypothesis initially seems implausible, yet how can we know that
the universe wasn't created a few minutes ago? Certainly the Five-
Minute World hypothesis is inconsistent with many of our other
beliefs. If it were true, we would have to give up these other beliefs
if we were to hold it, but how could we prove beyond any shadow of
doubt what is the case? From a purely empirical point of view, no
evidence is available which could prove that God isn't constantly
creating the universe moment by moment. In fact, as we will see in
Part III of this text, some persons who believe in predestination
eschew the notion of causality and believe God actually does create
the universe moment by moment.
Main Divisions of Philosophy
http://philosophy.lander.edu/intro/introbook2.1/x924.html
just joking man.
--
L. Raymond- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
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| User: "Don Martin" |
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| Title: Re: Is the rejection of Evolution a form of Racism? |
01 Dec 2007 11:28:52 AM |
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On Sat, 1 Dec 2007 00:37:37 -0600, "L. Raymond" <badaddress@....com> wrote:
Immortalist wrote:
On Nov 30, 10:28 am, donquijote1954 <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
The answer seems obvious to me: IT IS! When we accept human evolution,
we accept that our ancestors are African, not Middle Eastern...
The science of it all is so evident that only the ugly head of racism
disguised under the veil of religiosity can hide it. I don't have a
problem: I already feel a monkey! Do you?
http://www.zazzle.com/donquijote1954/product/235602224199217660?CMPN=...
Although the idea that the theory of evolution as a form of racism is
sufficient for the explaination of some motives for rejecting the
theory, it is not necessary for a more complete group of motives for
rejecting evolution.
The only motive for rejecting evolution is ignorance.
I wouldn't call it a motive so much as a mechanism. Once ignorance is in place,
rejection is practically robotic.
WOA (Wicked Old Atheist) #2278
If you can't be a dirty old man,
what is the point of being an old man?
Through a jaundiced eye darkly--rheum with a view.
The Squeeky Wheel http://home.comcast.net/~drdonmartin/
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| User: "Wordsmith" |
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| Title: Re: Is the rejection of Evolution a form of Racism? |
30 Nov 2007 02:01:04 PM |
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On Nov 30, 11:28 am, donquijote1954 <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
The answer seems obvious to me: IT IS! When we accept human evolution,
we accept that our ancestors are African, not Middle Eastern...
The science of it all is so evident that only the ugly head of racism
disguised under the veil of religiosity can hide it. I don't have a
problem: I already feel a monkey! Do you?
http://www.zazzle.com/donquijote1954/product/235602224199217660?CMPN=...
"During much of the long history of apartheid in South Africa,
evolution was not allowed to be taught. The Christian National
Education system, formalized in 1948 and accepted as national policy
from 1967 to 1993, stated, among other things, that white children
should 'receive a separate education from black children to prepare
them for their respective superior and inferior positions in South
African social and economic life, and all education should be based on
Christian National principles' (Esterhuysen and Smith 1998).
The policy excluded the concept of evolution, taught a version of
history that negatively characterized non-whites, and made Bible
education, including the teaching of creationism, and religious
assemblies compulsory (Esterhuysen and Smith 1998)."
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA005.html
WELCOME TO THE JUNGLEhttp://webspawner.com/users/donquijote
THE BANANA REVOLUTION ;)http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote40
That's as silly as saying rejecting the law of gravity is racist.
W : )
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| User: "donquijote1954" |
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| Title: Re: Is the rejection of Evolution a form of Racism? |
30 Nov 2007 02:26:48 PM |
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On Nov 30, 3:01 pm, Wordsmith <wordsm...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 30, 11:28 am, donquijote1954 <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
The answer seems obvious to me: IT IS! When we accept human evolution,
we accept that our ancestors are African, not Middle Eastern...
The science of it all is so evident that only the ugly head of racism
disguised under the veil of religiosity can hide it. I don't have a
problem: I already feel a monkey! Do you?
http://www.zazzle.com/donquijote1954/product/235602224199217660?CMPN=...
"During much of the long history of apartheid in South Africa,
evolution was not allowed to be taught. The Christian National
Education system, formalized in 1948 and accepted as national policy
from 1967 to 1993, stated, among other things, that white children
should 'receive a separate education from black children to prepare
them for their respective superior and inferior positions in South
African social and economic life, and all education should be based on
Christian National principles' (Esterhuysen and Smith 1998).
The policy excluded the concept of evolution, taught a version of
history that negatively characterized non-whites, and made Bible
education, including the teaching of creationism, and religious
assemblies compulsory (Esterhuysen and Smith 1998)."
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA005.html
WELCOME TO THE JUNGLEhttp://webspawner.com/users/donquijote
THE BANANA REVOLUTION ;)http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote40
That's as silly as saying rejecting the law of gravity is racist.
That's a silly example.
Even the white South Africans knew the implications of accepting
evolution. Accepting blacks in your family tree is not easy for some.
Let alone monkeys...
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| User: "donquijote1954" |
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| Title: Re: Is the rejection of Evolution a form of Racism? |
30 Nov 2007 02:45:22 PM |
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On Nov 30, 1:48 pm, Simpleton <hu...@whoever.com> wrote:
No, racism is, generally speaking, the belief that members of one race
are intrinsically superior or inferior to members of other races.
Racism existed before the theory of evolution was even postulated,
still does, even amongst people who accept evolution. Likewise, there
are people who reject evolution, but are not racists.
There's a strong correlation between the two. Maybe at the
subconscious level for some.
There's also a strong correlation with hierarchy (where whites are at
the top)...
The Hierarchical Nature of the Universe
"Paradise Lost" is about hierarchy as much as it is about obedience.
The layout of the universe--with Heaven above, Hell below, and Earth in
the middle--presents the universe as a hierarchy based on proximity to
God and his grace. This spatial hierarchy leads to a social hierarchy
of angels, humans, animals, and devils: the Son is closest to God,
with the archangels and cherubs behind him. Adam and Eve and Earth's
animals come next, with Satan and the other fallen angels following
last. To obey God is to respect this hierarchy.
http://www.sparknotes.com/poetry/paradiselost/themes.html
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Is the rejection of Evolution a form of Racism? |
30 Nov 2007 03:05:42 PM |
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On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 12:45:22 -0800 (PST), donquijote1954
<nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 30, 1:48 pm, Simpleton <hu...@whoever.com> wrote:
No, racism is, generally speaking, the belief that members of one race
are intrinsically superior or inferior to members of other races.
Racism existed before the theory of evolution was even postulated,
still does, even amongst people who accept evolution. Likewise, there
are people who reject evolution, but are not racists.
There's a strong correlation between the two. Maybe at the
subconscious level for some.
There's also a strong correlation with hierarchy (where whites are at
the top)...
The Hierarchical Nature of the Universe
"Paradise Lost" is about hierarchy as much as it is about obedience.
The layout of the universe--with Heaven above, Hell below, and Earth in
the middle--presents the universe as a hierarchy based on proximity to
God and his grace. This spatial hierarchy leads to a social hierarchy
of angels, humans, animals, and devils: the Son is closest to God,
with the archangels and cherubs behind him. Adam and Eve and Earth's
animals come next, with Satan and the other fallen angels following
last. To obey God is to respect this hierarchy.
Only according to the fairy stories of Christian mythology.
In the real world it is irrelevant *****.
http://www.sparknotes.com/poetry/paradiselost/themes.html
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Is the rejection of Evolution a form of Racism? |
01 Dec 2007 09:16:11 AM |
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On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:05:42 -0500, in alt.atheism , Christopher A.Lee
<calee@optonline.net> in <6nu0l31e0lu59qgbbttv7kvactvbg5siov@4ax.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 12:45:22 -0800 (PST), donquijote1954
<nolionnoproblem@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 30, 1:48 pm, Simpleton <hu...@whoever.com> wrote:
No, racism is, generally speaking, the belief that members of one race
are intrinsically superior or inferior to members of other races.
Racism existed before the theory of evolution was even postulated,
still does, even amongst people who accept evolution. Likewise, there
are people who reject evolution, but are not racists.
There's a strong correlation between the two. Maybe at the
subconscious level for some.
There's also a strong correlation with hierarchy (where whites are at
the top)...
The Hierarchical Nature of the Universe
"Paradise Lost" is about hierarchy as much as it is about obedience.
The layout of the universe--with Heaven above, Hell below, and Earth in
the middle--presents the universe as a hierarchy based on proximity to
God and his grace. This spatial hierarchy leads to a social hierarchy
of angels, humans, animals, and devils: the Son is closest to God,
with the archangels and cherubs behind him. Adam and Eve and Earth's
animals come next, with Satan and the other fallen angels following
last. To obey God is to respect this hierarchy.
Only according to the fairy stories of Christian mythology.
In the real world it is irrelevant *****.
How in the world is _Paradise Lost_ irrelevant to a discussion of
traditional Christian viewpoint? Or did you just get confused about
the topic?
http://www.sparknotes.com/poetry/paradiselost/themes.html
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
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| User: "donquijote1954" |
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| Title: Re: Is the rejection of Evolution a form of Racism? |
01 Dec 2007 10:57:48 AM |
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On Dec 1, 10:16 am, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nos...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:05:42 -0500, in alt.atheism , Christopher A.Lee
<ca...@optonline.net> in <6nu0l31e0lu59qgbbttv7kvactvbg5s...@4ax.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 12:45:22 -0800 (PST), donquijote1954
<nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 30, 1:48 pm, Simpleton <hu...@whoever.com> wrote:
No, racism is, generally speaking, the belief that members of one race
are intrinsically superior or inferior to members of other races.
Racism existed before the theory of evolution was even postulated,
still does, even amongst people who accept evolution. Likewise, there
are people who reject evolution, but are not racists.
There's a strong correlation between the two. Maybe at the
subconscious level for some.
There's also a strong correlation with hierarchy (where whites are at
the top)...
The Hierarchical Nature of the Universe
"Paradise Lost" is about hierarchy as much as it is about obedience.
The layout of the universe--with Heaven above, Hell below, and Earth in
the middle--presents the universe as a hierarchy based on proximity to
God and his grace. This spatial hierarchy leads to a social hierarchy
of angels, humans, animals, and devils: the Son is closest to God,
with the archangels and cherubs behind him. Adam and Eve and Earth's
animals come next, with Satan and the other fallen angels following
last. To obey God is to respect this hierarchy.
Only according to the fairy stories of Christian mythology.
In the real world it is irrelevant *****.
How in the world is _Paradise Lost_ irrelevant to a discussion of
traditional Christian viewpoint? Or did you just get confused about
the topic?
Just wanted to show that the order of the Religious Universe is
hierarchal, and so you must obey the supreme leader that commands over
the supreme race (white race).
Maybe they don't realize either (or just that they don't want to), but
hierarchy is as big a problem as racism. And so is sexism, where the
supreme leader is the man.
.
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| User: "Robert Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Is the rejection of Evolution a form of Racism? |
30 Nov 2007 03:27:05 PM |
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On Nov 30, 4:05 pm, Christopher A.Lee <ca...@optonline.net> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 12:45:22 -0800 (PST), donquijote1954
<nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 30, 1:48 pm, Simpleton <hu...@whoever.com> wrote:
No, racism is, generally speaking, the belief that members of one race
are intrinsically superior or inferior to members of other races.
Racism existed before the theory of evolution was even postulated,
still does, even amongst people who accept evolution. Likewise, there
are people who reject evolution, but are not racists.
There's a strong correlation between the two. Maybe at the
subconscious level for some.
There's also a strong correlation with hierarchy (where whites are at
the top)...
The Hierarchical Nature of the Universe
"Paradise Lost" is about hierarchy as much as it is about obedience.
The layout of the universe--with Heaven above, Hell below, and Earth in
the middle--presents the universe as a hierarchy based on proximity to
God and his grace. This spatial hierarchy leads to a social hierarchy
of angels, humans, animals, and devils: the Son is closest to God,
with the archangels and cherubs behind him. Adam and Eve and Earth's
animals come next, with Satan and the other fallen angels following
last. To obey God is to respect this hierarchy.
Only according to the fairy stories of Christian mythology.
In the real world it is irrelevant *****.
http://www.sparknotes.com/poetry/paradiselost/themes.html- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
WHAT
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| User: "Robert Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Is the rejection of Evolution a form of Racism? |
30 Nov 2007 04:31:13 PM |
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On Nov 30, 4:05 pm, Christopher A.Lee <ca...@optonline.net> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 12:45:22 -0800 (PST), donquijote1954
<nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 30, 1:48 pm, Simpleton <hu...@whoever.com> wrote:
No, racism is, generally speaking, the belief that members of one race
are intrinsically superior or inferior to members of other races.
Racism existed before the theory of evolution was even postulated,
still does, even amongst people who accept evolution. Likewise, there
are people who reject evolution, but are not racists.
There's a strong correlation between the two. Maybe at the
subconscious level for some.
There's also a strong correlation with hierarchy (where whites are at
the top)...
The Hierarchical Nature of the Universe
"Paradise Lost" is about hierarchy as much as it is about obedience.
The layout of the universe--with Heaven above, Hell below, and Earth in
the middle--presents the universe as a hierarchy based on proximity to
God and his grace. This spatial hierarchy leads to a social hierarchy
of angels, humans, animals, and devils: the Son is closest to God,
with the archangels and cherubs behind him. Adam and Eve and Earth's
animals come next, with Satan and the other fallen angels following
last. To obey God is to respect this hierarchy.
Only according to the fairy stories of Christian mythology.
In the real world it is irrelevant *****.
http://www.sparknotes.com/poetry/paradiselost/themes.html- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
what else is true
10. one musn't screw dead tree knot holes, because that necro-woood be
termite-philia
9. the human requires oxygen, but the babboon breathes O2
8. a modern society maladapts when it has poor ethnics
7. a train can stop w/in 5 miles, like that train underneath the
airport
6. it's perhaps against a law to tamper with a mattress label
<punishments: restricted tv, limited menu>
5. logic is the revenge of engineers for art <da vinca excluded>
4. malice isn't good
3. the air car (saw it on the internet, therefore it works)
2. kooks aren't necessarily krazed cooks with speech impediments
1. jello spelled backwards is ollej, which isn't a pallidrone but what
is
0. silly lists suck
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| User: "donquijote1954" |
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| Title: Re: Is the rejection of Evolution a form of Racism? |
30 Nov 2007 05:10:00 PM |
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On Nov 30, 5:31 pm, Robert Cohen <robtco...@msn.com> wrote:
On Nov 30, 4:05 pm, Christopher A.Lee <ca...@optonline.net> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 12:45:22 -0800 (PST), donquijote1954
<nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 30, 1:48 pm, Simpleton <hu...@whoever.com> wrote:
No, racism is, generally speaking, the belief that members of one race
are intrinsically superior or inferior to members of other races.
Racism existed before the theory of evolution was even postulated,
still does, even amongst people who accept evolution. Likewise, there
are people who reject evolution, but are not racists.
There's a strong correlation between the two. Maybe at the
subconscious level for some.
There's also a strong correlation with hierarchy (where whites are at
the top)...
The Hierarchical Nature of the Universe
"Paradise Lost" is about hierarchy as much as it is about obedience.
The layout of the universe--with Heaven above, Hell below, and Earth in
the middle--presents the universe as a hierarchy based on proximity to
God and his grace. This spatial hierarchy leads to a social hierarchy
of angels, humans, animals, and devils: the Son is closest to God,
with the archangels and cherubs behind him. Adam and Eve and Earth's
animals come next, with Satan and the other fallen angels following
last. To obey God is to respect this hierarchy.
Only according to the fairy stories of Christian mythology.
In the real world it is irrelevant *****.
http://www.sparknotes.com/poetry/paradiselost/themes.html-Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
what else is true
10. one musn't screw dead tree knot holes, because that necro-woood be
termite-philia
9. the human requires oxygen, but the babboon breathes O2
8. a modern society maladapts when it has poor ethnics
7. a train can stop w/in 5 miles, like that train underneath the
airport
6. it's perhaps against a law to tamper with a mattress label
<punishments: restricted tv, limited menu>
5. logic is the revenge of engineers for art <da vinca excluded>
4. malice isn't good
3. the air car (saw it on the internet, therefore it works)
2. kooks aren't necessarily krazed cooks with speech impediments
1. jello spelled backwards is ollej, which isn't a pallidrone but what
is
0. silly lists suck- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The "10 Commandments" are showing through. Not only they are 10, but
they are also absurd. Like...
"You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your
neighbor's wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or
his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor."
So is OK to have servants?
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| User: "donquijote1954" |
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| Title: Re: Is the rejection of Evolution a form of Racism? |
30 Nov 2007 07:24:14 PM |
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On Nov 30, 6:51 pm, Dave <dvor...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 30, 2:26 pm, donquijote1954 <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Like I said somewhere, maybe at the subconscious level for some
individuals.
Then you went on to cover all creationists with that blanket of
racism. They are the most stupid, ignorant, worthless, people I've
come across.... but racist they're not.
Here are the labels I attach to ORGANIZED RELIGION though:
1- RACIST
2- HIERARCHAL
3- SEXIST
That's a blanket that is to big to be true. Some are racist but I
doubt that most are.
IGNORANCE is more than a link, it's an instrument for manipulation by
both religious and racist bigots.
It's also used to create bigotry where there isn't any.
Your defense seems pretty honest, but how can the "stupid, ignorant,
worthless, people" realize they are being used to advance the racist
design of people above them?
If the Conquistadors while carrying the cross went to annihalate whole
nations of Indians to bring gold and power to the king, how can you
blame them for genocide? Well, they seem to be worthy of the
adjectives above.
The Bible doesn't look on all people as one people. For example...
God will kill the Egyptian children to show that he puts "a difference
between the Egyptians and Israel." Exodus 11:7
Indians, I'm sure, were much less than white Europeans. Savages of the
worth kind and fitting of slavery.
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| User: "donquijote1954" |
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| Title: Re: Is the rejection of Evolution a form of Racism? |
30 Nov 2007 04:15:54 PM |
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On Nov 30, 4:05 pm, Christopher A.Lee <ca...@optonline.net> wrote:
On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 12:45:22 -0800 (PST), donquijote1954
<nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 30, 1:48 pm, Simpleton <hu...@whoever.com> wrote:
No, racism is, generally speaking, the belief that members of one race
are intrinsically superior or inferior to members of other races.
Racism existed before the theory of evolution was even postulated,
still does, even amongst people who accept evolution. Likewise, there
are people who reject evolution, but are not racists.
There's a strong correlation between the two. Maybe at the
subconscious level for some.
There's also a strong correlation with hierarchy (where whites are at
the top)...
The Hierarchical Nature of the Universe
"Paradise Lost" is about hierarchy as much as it is about obedience.
The layout of the universe--with Heaven above, Hell below, and Earth in
the middle--presents the universe as a hierarchy based on proximity to
God and his grace. This spatial hierarchy leads to a social hierarchy
of angels, humans, animals, and devils: the Son is closest to God,
with the archangels and cherubs behind him. Adam and Eve and Earth's
animals come next, with Satan and the other fallen angels following
last. To obey God is to respect this hierarchy.
Only according to the fairy stories of Christian mythology.
In the real world it is irrelevant *****.
Their fairy tales would be irrelevant if their hierarchal and racist
concepts wouldn't translate into support for worst alpha-male monkeys
out there.
.
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| User: "donquijote1954" |
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| Title: Re: Is the rejection of Evolution a form of Racism? |
30 Nov 2007 04:29:18 PM |
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On Nov 30, 4:12 pm, Dave <dvor...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 30, 12:34 pm, donquijote1954 <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
I haven't said they are same, just that there's a strong link between
them. For examle...
I never claimed you did? The strong link is ignorance, as I pointed
out.
"The Bible Belt in the southern United States fought hardest to
maintain slavery."
That does not prove that todays creationists are racial bigots.
Our Caucasian God made us Caucasians to his image, and so we can rule
the world. Alellujah!
Again, not proof that all creationists believe that.
Like I said somewhere, maybe at the subconscious level for some
individuals.
Here are the labels I attach to ORGANIZED RELIGION though:
1- RACIST
2- HIERARCHAL
3- SEXIST
IGNORANCE is more than a link, it's an instrument for manipulation by
both religious and racist bigots.
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| User: "George Dance" |
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| Title: Re: Is the rejection of Evolution a form of Racism? |
01 Dec 2007 12:48:35 AM |
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On Nov 30, 3:26 pm, donquijote1954 <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Nov 30, 3:01 pm, Wordsmith <wordsm...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 30, 11:28 am, donquijote1954 <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
The answer seems obvious to me: IT IS! When we accept human evolution,
we accept that our ancestors are African, not Middle Eastern...
The science of it all is so evident that only the ugly head of racism
disguised under the veil of religiosity can hide it. I don't have a
problem: I already feel a monkey! Do you?
http://www.zazzle.com/donquijote1954/product/235602224199217660?CMPN=...
"During much of the long history of apartheid in South Africa,
evolution was not allowed to be taught. The Christian National
Education system, formalized in 1948 and accepted as national policy
from 1967 to 1993, stated, among other things, that white children
should 'receive a separate education from black children to prepare
them for their respective superior and inferior positions in South
African social and economic life, and all education should be based on
Christian National principles' (Esterhuysen and Smith 1998).
The policy excluded the concept of evolution, taught a version of
history that negatively characterized non-whites, and made Bible
education, including the teaching of creationism, and religious
assemblies compulsory (Esterhuysen and Smith 1998)."
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA005.html
WELCOME TO THE JUNGLEhttp://webspawner.com/users/donquijote
THE BANANA REVOLUTION ;)http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote40
That's as silly as saying rejecting the law of gravity is racist.
That's a silly example.
Even the white South Africans knew the implications of accepting
evolution. Accepting blacks in your family tree is not easy for some.
Let alone monkeys...
The problem with that reasoning, though, is that rejecting evolution
in favor of biblical creation also implies accepting blacks into the
white racist's family tree; the only way to prevent that would be to
postulate two separate creations, one of blacks and one of whites.
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| User: "Lars Eighner" |
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| Title: Re: Is the rejection of Evolution a form of Racism? |
01 Dec 2007 12:52:28 AM |
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In our last episode,
<f16c7731-5b19-49f0-912b-939a13411376@a35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, the
lovely and talented George Dance broadcast on alt.atheism:
The problem with that reasoning, though, is that rejecting evolution
in favor of biblical creation also implies accepting blacks into the
white racist's family tree; the only way to prevent that would be to
postulate two separate creations, one of blacks and one of whites.
But that is exactly what they believe --- well, not exactly, they believe in
many separate creations, each creature in its own place.
--
Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/>
Countdown: 416 days to go.
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| User: "donquijote1954" |
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| Title: Re: Is the rejection of Evolution a form of Racism? |
01 Dec 2007 10:50:31 AM |
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On Dec 1, 1:48 am, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
On Nov 30, 3:26 pm, donquijote1954 <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Nov 30, 3:01 pm, Wordsmith <wordsm...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
On Nov 30, 11:28 am, donquijote1954 <nolionnoprob...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
The answer seems obvious to me: IT IS! When we accept human evolution,
we accept that our ancestors are African, not Middle Eastern...
The science of it all is so evident that only the ugly head of racism
disguised under the veil of religiosity can hide it. I don't have a
problem: I already feel a monkey! Do you?
http://www.zazzle.com/donquijote1954/product/235602224199217660?CMPN=...
"During much of the long history of apartheid in South Africa,
evolution was not allowed to be taught. The Christian National
Education system, formalized in 1948 and accepted as national policy
from 1967 to 1993, stated, among other things, that white children
should 'receive a separate education from black children to prepare
them for their respective superior and inferior positions in South
African social and economic life, and all education should be based on
Christian National principles' (Esterhuysen and Smith 1998).
The policy excluded the concept of evolution, taught a version of
history that negatively characterized non-whites, and made Bible
education, including the teaching of creationism, and religious
assemblies compulsory (Esterhuysen and Smith 1998)."
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA005.html
WELCOME TO THE JUNGLEhttp://webspawner.com/users/donquijote
THE BANANA REVOLUTION ;)http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote40
That's as silly as saying rejecting the law of gravity is racist.
That's a silly example.
Even the white South Africans knew the implications of accepting
evolution. Accepting blacks in your family tree is not easy for some.
Let alone monkeys...
The problem with that reasoning, though, is that rejecting evolution
in favor of biblical creation also implies accepting blacks into the
white racist's family tree; the only way to prevent that would be to
postulate two separate creations, one of blacks and one of whites.-
Somehow God (a Caucasian) made men to his image, so the ones that fit
the profile (again Caucasian) run the other races in lieu of God.
How the lesser races were created they never explain, but perhaps they
weren't even humans. In fact, many racists never considered Indians or
blacks or Japs fully human.
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