| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Idoso" |
| Date: |
30 Sep 2006 01:58:25 AM |
| Object: |
Is the worship of a Creator a waste of time? |
Just as we no longer need a moral code, neither do we need religion,"
declared Friedrich Nietzsche. "Religion is the dream of the human
mind," asserted Ludwig Feuerbach. And Karl Marx, whose writings would
have profound influence in coming decades, boldly stated: "I want to
increase the mind's freedom from the chains of religion."
The roots were in place and sprouting long before the 19th century
began. Surprisingly, the modern growth of atheism was fostered by the
religions of Christendom! How so? Because of their corruption, these
religious institutions provoked a great deal of disillusionment and
protest.
Dissatisfied with religion, many of these philosophers became deists;
they believed in God but maintained that he had no interest in man. A
few became outspoken atheists, such as philosopher Paul Henri Thiry
Holbach, who claimed that religion was a "source of divisions,
madness, and crimes." As the years passed, many more grew weary of
Christendom and shared Holbach's sentiments.
How ironic that Christendom spurred on the growth of atheism! "The
Churches were the soil of atheism," writes theology professor Michael
J. Buckley. "The Western conscience found itself deeply scandalized
and disgusted by confessional religions. The Churches and the sects had
devastated Europe, engineered massacres, demanded religious resistance
or revolution, attempted to excommunicate or to depose monarchs."
Whether they have observed the hypocrisy of religion or not, many
atheists simply cannot reconcile belief in God with the suffering in
the world. Simone de Beauvoir once said: "It was easier for me to
think of a world without a creator than of a creator loaded with all
the contradictions of the world."
The Contrast of True Religion
In 1803, United States president Thomas Jefferson wrote: "To the
corruptions of Christianity, I am, indeed, opposed; but not to the
genuine precepts of Jesus himself." Yes, there is a difference
between Christendom and Christianity. Many of Christendom's tenets
are founded upon the traditions of men. In contrast, true Christianity
bases its beliefs solely upon the Bible. Thus, Paul wrote to the
first-century Colossians that they should acquire "accurate
knowledge," "wisdom," and "spiritual
comprehension."-Colossians 1:9, 10.
This is what we should expect of genuine Christians, for Jesus
commanded his followers: "Make disciples of people of all the
nations, baptizing them . . . , teaching them to observe all the things
I have commanded you."-Matthew 28:19, 20.
Today, Jehovah's Witnesses are carrying out this command in 235 lands
around the world. Moreover, through a home Bible study program, they
are presently helping persons to 'observe all the things Jesus
commanded.'
This educational program is having far-reaching results. It brings true
enlightenment, for it is based, not on man's thoughts, but on God's
wisdom. (Proverbs 4:18) Furthermore, it is helping people from all
nations and races to do something that man's "Enlightenment"
could never accomplish-to put on a "new personality" that enables
them to develop genuine love for one another.-Colossians 3:9, 10.
True religion is triumphing in our 21th century. It does not deny
God-neither his existence nor his authority. We invite you to see
this for yourself by visiting Jehovah's Witnesses at one of their
Kingdom Halls.
If you want more information about the Bible-based message that
Jehovah's Witnesses preach, feel free to contact them at the address
below.
http://www.watchtower.org/how_to_contact_us.htm
www.watchtower.org
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| User: "lynx" |
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| Title: Re: Is the worship of a Creator a waste of time? |
09 Oct 2006 02:06:36 AM |
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Sean McHugh wrote:
Theo Bekkers wrote:
lynx wrote:
'Impervious' is always in relation to
something. You've killed off your own argument now by saying that
Gladys is (supposedly) impervious to reason- something we were
supposed to assume- but your original comment was simply that she was
impervious.i.e. impenetrable, and that could have been in relation to
anything.
As Gladys is impervious to everything, Sean's initial statement is correct.
:-)
Damn it, Theo. With one line you have just made many pages of work
redundant. :-)
He has a talent for that.
Best Regards,
Sean McHugh
--
rgds,
Pete
=====
http://pw352.blogspot.com/
'I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day.
Tomorrow's not looking good either'
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Is the worship of a Creator a waste of time? |
05 Oct 2006 07:16:48 PM |
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Sean McHugh wrote:
You and Dolf have a lot in common. Both of you are impervious,
Taking the Macquarie Dictionary meaning (3) for impervious
= not moved or affected by,
in the context of your postings,
your endeavours to bring me to an acceptance of evolution,
your use of the word for me
can be right.
But, as yet, there has not been the evidence
that the fossil record shows that unicelluar to multi-celluar evolution
did happen.
both of you are kooks,
The Cassell Dictionary of Slang
gives the following meanings for 'kook'
1. a crazy person - sorry that is not a descrption of me
an eccentric, albeit an acceptable one - I guess it is something to
be told
in this newsgroup that
I am acceptable for something
but, nevertheless, I
am not eccentric
2. an annoying or mistaken person - I can understand you using that
definition of me
but I wonder why it
has not been used of others
3. a novice - not exactly after four years posting on Creationism,
except in the sense that I am not a Tertiary level
graduated scientist.
both of you are spammers
I assume 'spam' is used in the context of 'network abuse', 'junk
E-mail'
or 'massive junk
postings to USENET'
I am aware that some posters give personal websites.
I have only set out one of those during a series of lessons on the
Internet,
but it was never placed on the it.
So, sorry, I can't give my own (unpaid for) advertisement,
but I will say that some that I have viewed and posted by others
have disgusted me. .
and now, both of you answer your own posts.
It was not that I answered my own post; it was that I added to my
previous postings.
swager@ozemail.com.au wrote:
As far as I know,
, as above, is not operative.
Shortly after I began posting to aus.religion.christian, and whether as
a direct result
I do not know I found I had a back-log of nearly 700 e-mails with
my computer 'jammed' on one by a reasonably prominent poster.
in this group.
<snip>.
http://www.creationontheweb.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Web-cast. Questions and Answers
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/2774
Creation: 'where's the proof?'
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/240
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<snip>
Based on logical reasoning
it makes more sense to believe that Almighty God created
than it does to believe that gases and molecules
came into existence by themselves
and changed by many mutations over millions of years
into the amazing life forms that are in the world today.
How can something come into existence from nothing?
- only when an omnipotent, omniscient God Almighty
determines that will be.
- an Almighty God Who is eternal - has always been
and Who always will be
- Who is the God Almighty of the Biblical (Jewish and Christian)
scriptures.
The question, 'If God created, then who created God?' is nonsensical.
Gladys Swager
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| User: "Theo Bekkers" |
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| Title: Re: Is the worship of a Creator a waste of time? |
08 Oct 2006 09:33:27 PM |
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wrote:
They have plenty to say. Their websites are crammed with thousands of
articles,
both scientific and theological.
You misspelled illogical.
It is a fact that both Scientific Creationism and
Evolutionary Science are based on beliefs,
which of themselves can't be proved scientifically
ie how life began originally.
No, it is not a fact.
Based on logical reasoning
it makes more sense to believe that Almighty God created
Your version of logical reasoning says that God must have had a creator,
and He had to have a creator, etc., etc.
Theo
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Is the worship of a Creator a waste of time? |
09 Oct 2006 05:07:56 PM |
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On Mon, 9 Oct 2006 10:33:27 +0800, "Theo Bekkers"
<tbekkers@bekkers.com.au> wrote:
- Refer: <4529b51c$1@news.bekkers.com.au>
swager@ozemail.com.au wrote:
They have plenty to say. Their websites are crammed with thousands of
articles,
both scientific and theological.
You misspelled illogical.
It is a fact that both Scientific Creationism and
Evolutionary Science are based on beliefs,
which of themselves can't be proved scientifically
ie how life began originally.
No, it is not a fact.
Based on logical reasoning
it makes more sense to believe that Almighty God created
Your version of logical reasoning says that God must have had a creator,
and He had to have a creator, etc., etc.
Don't confuse the poor simpleton.
She has enough trouble typing and breathing at the same time without
being presented with nasty stuff like "facts", or "reality".
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Is the worship of a Creator a waste of time? |
30 Sep 2006 10:08:12 PM |
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Mark T wrote:
"Bill M" wrote:
Whether they have observed the hypocrisy of religion or not, many
atheists simply cannot reconcile belief in God with the suffering in
the world.
Therein is the crunch. The problem of evil has not been solved by
anyone.
###################################################
Is god willing to prevent evil but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him god? - Epicurus (341-270 BCE)
##################################################
Who was the god/God Epicurus was writing about
approximately 300 years before the birth of Jesus Christ?
From Children's Britannica Volume 7 : page 9
' Epicurus was most interested in a way of life that would make people
happy
.....taught that pain came from doing the wrong thing...
..... " his students to have as few needs and desires as
possible
...... " that a virtuous life led to peace of mind.
From the brief article it would seem that Epicurus had no ideas
about a life after our earthly lives.
Would he have been ignorant of the writings that now
comprise the Old Testament of the Bible?
As he was limited in his learning - teacher though he was -
because of the times in which he lived,
what he did say needs to be evaluated in the perspective
of present day understandings - suspect as even some of these are.
Do you actually expect me to believe that Adam and Eve populated the
whole world?
http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/2828/
Religious types claim that the Universes complexity would need a God
creator and that God always was and always will be.
Christian's favorite evidence for the existence of their god is the old
canard that the Universe could not just happen but had to have a
designer/creator.
I agree that none of the proofs for God's existence work.
Obviously you did not read my last post.
Many religious types claim the 'Intelligent Design' of the Universe is
proof of god.
It's just creationist hype.
As one who accepts evolution, you are adamant that other views
should not be available through schools and the media.
As the majority of Australians have registered a Christian faith
in the census and a percentage of them would accept the Biblical
scriptures
they and their children should have an access to Creationist science
alongside the atheistic science of the Evolutionists.
Otherwise there is just indoctrination.
Either both are in OR both are out!.
If the second proposal then each group must meet the costs
of the promotion of their point of view,
instead of the present situation
that evolution is funded by the public
through the education system and the media.
and the media.
Gladys Swager
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| User: "Mark T wh@thefeck09327564958698698676986598" |
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| Title: Re: Is the worship of a Creator a waste of time? |
30 Sep 2006 11:49:24 PM |
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"swa@ozemail.com.au" wrote:
Whether they have observed the hypocrisy of religion or not, many
atheists simply cannot reconcile belief in God with the suffering in
the world.
Therein is the crunch. The problem of evil has not been solved by
anyone.
###################################################
Is god willing to prevent evil but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him god? - Epicurus (341-270 BCE)
##################################################
Who was the god/God Epicurus was writing about
approximately 300 years before the birth of Jesus Christ?
It doesn't matter. This is applicable to all gods.
It's just creationist hype.
As one who accepts evolution, you are adamant that other views
should not be available through schools and the media.
No - but pseudoscience like creationism should never be taught by anyone as
real science. To teach creationism to children is to be involved in child
abuse.
--
"We're Christians! We're not supposed to think!" Fanny Wype (Nudist Colony
Of The Dead)
"All things are probable. Try to believe." - Mark 17:1
"Really! Try to believe even if it's bloody stupid and irrational." - Mark
17:2
"Why? Because I said so, that's why! Don't ask questions. Just
believe." - Mark 17:3
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| User: "Barry OGrady" |
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| Title: Re: Is the worship of a Creator a waste of time? |
01 Oct 2006 01:21:23 AM |
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On Sun, 1 Oct 2006 14:49:24 +1000, "Mark T" <wh@thefeck09327564958698698676986598> wrote:
"swa@ozemail.com.au" wrote:
Whether they have observed the hypocrisy of religion or not, many
atheists simply cannot reconcile belief in God with the suffering in
the world.
Therein is the crunch. The problem of evil has not been solved by
anyone.
###################################################
Is god willing to prevent evil but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him god? - Epicurus (341-270 BCE)
##################################################
Who was the god/God Epicurus was writing about
approximately 300 years before the birth of Jesus Christ?
It doesn't matter. This is applicable to all gods.
It's just creationist hype.
As one who accepts evolution, you are adamant that other views
should not be available through schools and the media.
No - but pseudoscience like creationism should never be taught by anyone as
real science. To teach creationism to children is to be involved in child
abuse.
Christianity is child abuse.
Mark has been abused by Christians but can't let go of his security blanket.
Barry
=====
Home page
http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og
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| User: "Hunter S Thomson" |
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| Title: Re: Is the worship of a Creator a waste of time? |
30 Sep 2006 05:04:17 AM |
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On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 17:21:24 +1000, Mark T wrote:
but participation in the suffering of
God in the life of the world.'
So you participate in the suffering of God eh?
I hope it makes you feel good, you cruel God-sadist.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Is the worship of a Creator a waste of time? |
30 Sep 2006 06:14:45 AM |
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"Is the worship of a Creator a waste of time?"
There is no "creator".
Get over your infantile delusions, and stop annoying the grown-ups,
OK?
If you really want to add value while you are here on earth, go and
convince jabriol to commit suicide or something.
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| User: "Ironweed" |
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| Title: Re: Is the worship of a Creator a waste of time? |
30 Sep 2006 09:52:03 AM |
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"Michael Gray" <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in message
news:e9ksh297gqjockp8ltf14ar4t89rjtqda6@4ax.com...
If you really want to add value while you are here on earth, go and
convince jabriol to commit suicide or something.
I wish he would before he gets some innocent person killed, then gloats like
he did over Chris DuBose's death. He used to recommend suicide to the poor
suffering souls on the support groups.
We can only hope.......
--
Ironweed......
"To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as
erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin."
[Cardinal Bellarmine 1615, during the trial of Galileo]
================================
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Is the worship of a Creator a waste of time? |
04 Oct 2006 01:02:02 PM |
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On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 09:52:03 -0500, "Ironweed" <invalid@invalid.invalid>
wrote in alt.atheism
"Michael Gray" <fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in message
news:e9ksh297gqjockp8ltf14ar4t89rjtqda6@4ax.com...
If you really want to add value while you are here on earth, go and
convince jabriol to commit suicide or something.
I wish he would before he gets some innocent person killed, then gloats like
he did over Chris DuBose's death. He used to recommend suicide to the poor
suffering souls on the support groups.
We can only hope.......
Perhaps another Xtian will put him out of everyone's misery.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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| User: "Richard Smol" |
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| Title: Re: Is the worship of a Creator a waste of time? |
05 Oct 2006 03:19:04 AM |
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Idoso wrote:
Whether they have observed the hypocrisy of religion or not, many
atheists simply cannot reconcile belief in God with the suffering in
the world. Simone de Beauvoir once said: "It was easier for me to
think of a world without a creator than of a creator loaded with all
the contradictions of the world."
Any being worth to be worshiped wouldn't need or want to be.
RS
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Is the worship of a Creator a waste of time? |
04 Oct 2006 01:00:38 PM |
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[snip raytard fecal matter]
Obviously.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
.
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