In article <1183415386.691414.188...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
aspiri...@hotmail.com says...

When I was a fundamentalist Christian, I remember when I stopped

Nice video. I would like to reiterate this related point, since I have
made a similar argument for a long time.
------------------------
Xians apparently think that it's legitimate to threaten eternal
punishment or bribe with eternal reward and that this does not compromise
a person's free will. At least that's the attitude that they take toward
hell and heaven respectively. Therefore, to be consistent, they must
believe that it's legit when the mafia bribes and extorts as well. After
all, you have the free will choice to let Joe Pesci or Tony Soprano
squeeze you head in a vice, or to give in to his demands. In fact,
compared to the tortures of hell, the things the mob can do to you sound
tame.
The point is that, if it's okay for god to secure your compliance by
threatening you with eternal violence, then it must likewise be morally
legitimate for person A to hold a gun to the head of person B and
threaten to blow B's brains out, unless he or she signs on the dotted
line. This, by Xian standards, is a perfectly acceptable and enforceable
contract. In fact, a number of xians have claimed that they would rather
go to their deaths than renouce their dogmas. In modern civil laws we
say that coercion or duress invalidate a contract, because the
contractee's freedom to choose was impaired. But Christers apparently
aren't buying it.

Also, if it is legit to get people to comply via threats or bribery, then
why should we ever simply ask for agreement with no strings attached. If
Xians maintain that it is still a free-will choice to give in to a threat
or to accept a bribe, then how can they condemn bribery or extortion, as
they appear to do elsewhere in the bible?

--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins

In article <1183415386.691414.188430@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
aspirin99@hotmail.com says...

When I was a fundamentalist Christian, I remember when I stopped

Nice video. I would like to reiterate this related point, since I have
made a similar argument for a long time.
------------------------
Xians apparently think that it's legitimate to threaten eternal
punishment or bribe with eternal reward and that this does not compromise
a person's free will. At least that's the attitude that they take toward
hell and heaven respectively. Therefore, to be consistent, they must
believe that it's legit when the mafia bribes and extorts as well. After
all, you have the free will choice to let Joe Pesci or Tony Soprano
squeeze you head in a vice, or to give in to his demands. In fact,
compared to the tortures of hell, the things the mob can do to you sound
tame.
The point is that, if it's okay for god to secure your compliance by
threatening you with eternal violence, then it must likewise be morally
legitimate for person A to hold a gun to the head of person B and
threaten to blow B's brains out, unless he or she signs on the dotted
line. This, by Xian standards, is a perfectly acceptable and enforceable
contract. In fact, a number of xians have claimed that they would rather
go to their deaths than renouce their dogmas. In modern civil laws we
say that coercion or duress invalidate a contract, because the
contractee's freedom to choose was impaired. But Christers apparently
aren't buying it.

Also, if it is legit to get people to comply via threats or bribery, then
why should we ever simply ask for agreement with no strings attached. If
Xians maintain that it is still a free-will choice to give in to a threat
or to accept a bribe, then how can they condemn bribery or extortion, as
they appear to do elsewhere in the bible?

On Jul 3, 8:29 am, Aspirin99 <aspiri...@hotmail.com> wrote:

When I was a fundamentalist Christian, I remember when I stopped
believing in the doctrine of eternal punishment. It opened my mind to
begin thinking more freely about what I thought was really true. This
video reflects some of the ideas that opened my thinking.

I just posted it last night. Any feedback is appreciated.

Is There Free Will in Christianity?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSW2_JU1IaE

Very nicely done.
Good graphics - and I like the calm even tone of your voice.
One minor criticism - swearing, one "*****" and one "*****".
It doesn't really add anything and potentially turns people off - they
can think "See he is really angry! He is just *pretending* to be calm
and reasonable!"
Remember your audience is looking for things to get hung up on rather
than listening to the message.
Swearing doesn't offend me - but it can be a barrier to effective
communication.

Cheers, Mark.