Religions > Atheism > =?iso-8859-1?q?OT:_Fresh_Details_Emerge_on_Harsh_Methods_at_Guant=E1namo?=
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Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"maff" |
| Date: |
01 Jan 2005 04:19:28 PM |
| Object: |
=?iso-8859-1?q?OT:_Fresh_Details_Emerge_on_Harsh_Methods_at_Guant=E1namo?= |
Fresh Details Emerge on Harsh Methods at Guant=E1namo
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/01/national/01gitmo.html?pagewanted=3Dall&po=
sition=3D
By NEIL A. LEWIS
Recent interviews with former intelligence officers and interrogators
have damaged the military's version of how the detention center at
Guant=E1namo Bay, Cuba, operated.
Guantanamo
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/ee8dbbfb35d46471
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| User: "igtheist" |
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| Title: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_OT:_Fresh_Details_Emerge_on_Harsh_Methods_at_Guant=E1namo?= |
02 Jan 2005 09:00:16 PM |
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"Interviews with former intelligence officers and interrogators
provided new details and confirmed earlier accounts of inmates being
shackled for hours and left to soil themselves while exposed to blaring
music or the insistent meowing of a cat-food commercial. In addition,
some may have been forcibly given enemas as punishment."
That's it? Hell, your grandmother puts up with worse at the nursing
home.
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| User: "Yang, AthD h.c, Kicking AWOLs Cocaine Snorting Ass" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Fresh Details Emerge on Harsh Methods at Guantánamo |
02 Jan 2005 11:07:52 PM |
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On 2 Jan 2005 19:00:16 -0800, "igtheist"
<igtheist_N_O_S_P_A_M@hotmail.com> wrote:
"Interviews with former intelligence officers and interrogators
provided new details and confirmed earlier accounts of inmates being
shackled for hours and left to soil themselves while exposed to blaring
music or the insistent meowing of a cat-food commercial. In addition,
some may have been forcibly given enemas as punishment."
That's it? Hell, your grandmother puts up with worse at the nursing
home.
What about sticking cigarettes into detainees' ears, did your grandma
do that to you too?
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-122004abuse_lat,0,7182832.story?coll=la-home-headlines
FBI Claims More Arab Prisoners Abused
By Richard A. Serrano
Times Staff Writer
3:26 PM PST, December 20, 2004
WASHINGTON — FBI agents are increasingly complaining about what they
consider abusive physical and mental torture by military officials
against prisoners held in Iraq and Cuba, including lighted cigarettes
stuck in detainees' ears and Arab captives being humiliated with
Israeli flags wrapped around them, according to new documents released
today.
The FBI records are the latest set of documents obtained by the ACLU
in its lawsuit against the federal government and include instances in
which bureau officials were disgusted that military interrogators
pretended to be FBI agents and used the scheme as a "ruse" to glean
intelligence information from prisoners.
In addition, the FBI complained that military interrogators have gone
far beyond the restrictions of the Geneva Conventions prohibiting
torture and have followed an apparently new executive order from
President Bush that permits the use of dogs and other techniques to
harass prisoners.
"We know what's permissible for FBI agents but are less sure what is
permissible for military interrogators," the FBI's "on-scene
commander-Baghdad" complained to his bureau colleagues last May, well
after the abuse scandal at the Abu Ghraib prison had become public.
"We cannot have our (FBI) personnel embedded with military units
abroad, which regularly use these interrogation techniques…"
Another unidentified FBI agent told his superiors in July that he had
witnessed military interrogators and government contract employees at
the U.S. Navy Base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, using "aggressive
treatment and improper interview techniques" on prisoners.
"I did observe treatment that was not only aggressive, but personally
very upsetting," he said.
At the Pentagon, Air Force Maj. Michael Shavers, a military spokesman,
said the Defense Department would have no comment about the FBI
records or the Bush executive order.
The FBI documents did not include a copy of the Bush order, or make
clear when it was signed. But it described the order as allowing
interrogation tactics that are forbidden for FBI agents, who routinely
interview some of the most notorious crime suspects in this country.
According to FBI officials, the Bush order approved interrogation
tactics that include "sleep deprivation and stress positions," as well
as "loud music, interrogators yelling at subjects and prisoners with
hoods on their heads."
Other White House documents surfaced earlier this year in which the
president was given legal advice that the detainees are enemy
combatants and not strictly prisoners of war, and that therefore the
Geneva Conventions may not always apply in the post-Sept. 11 war
against terrorism.
Nevertheless Jameel Jaffer, a staff attorney for the American Civil
Liberties Union in New York, maintained that "the methods that the
Defense Department has adopted are illegal, immoral and
counterproductive."
He added that the ACLU, which has been obtaining torture records under
a lawsuit it filed against the federal government, finds it
"astonishing that these methods appear to have been adopted as a
matter of policy by the highest levels of government."
In many of the records released today, FBI officials expressed disgust
upon learning that military interrogators posed as FBI agents in their
interviews with prisoners.
They said they had learned that Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld
had approved the "ruse," and that it actually had an adverse effect,
getting little "cooperation" from prisoners.
In one instance, an FBI official told his superiors in a December,
2003 e-mail that impersonation "tactics have produced no
intelligence." The official added that these techniques actually "have
destroyed any chance of prosecuting this detainee."
The FBI official added: "If this detainee is ever released or his
story made public in any way, DoD interrogators will not be held
accountable because these torture techniques were done (by) the `FBI'
interrogators. The FBI will be left holding the bag before the
public."
Another FBI official, who worked in the bureau's counterterrorism
division and was assigned to Guantanamo Bay, wrote in a memo last July
that military interrogators often interrupted efforts underway by FBI
agents.
Every time the FBI established a rapport with a detainee, the military
would step in and the detainee would stop being cooperative," the FBI
official wrote. "The military did not stop the interviews while they
were in progress but routinely took control of the detainee when the
interview was completed.
"The next time that detainee was interviewed, his level of cooperation
was diminished."
Many agents assigned to Iraq and Cuba reported witnessing incidents of
abuse by military units or civilian contractors.
In a June "Urgent Report" to the FBI director from the Sacramento
field office, for example, a supervising special agent described
abuses such as "strangulation, beatings, placement of lit cigarettes
into the detainees' ear openings and unauthorized interrogations."
The supervisor added that some officials "were engaged in a cover-up
of these abuses."
In other instances, a female prisoner "indicated she was hit with a
stick," according to a memo from last May, and in July, Army criminal
investigators were reviewing "the alleged rape of a juvenile male
detainee at Abu Ghraib prison."
Still other agents gave more detailed accounts of abuse.
In June, for instance, an agent from the Washington field office
reported that an Abu Ghraib detainee was "cuffed" and placed into a
position the military called "The Scorpion" hold. Then, according to
what the prisoner told the FBI, he was doused with cold water, dropped
onto barbed wire, dragged by his feet and punched in the stomach.
In Cuba, a detainee in May, 2002, was reportedly spat upon and then
beaten when he attempted to roll onto his stomach to protect himself.
At one point, soldiers apparently were "beating him and grabbed his
head and beat it into the cell floor," knocking him unconscious.
Another agent reported this past August that while in Cuba he often
saw detainees chained hand and foot in a fetal position on the floor
"with no chair, food or water."
"Most times they had urinated or defecated on themselves, and had been
left for 18-24 hours or more," the agent wrote.
Sometimes, he reported, the room was chilled to where a "barefooted
detainee was shaking with cold." Other times, the air-conditioning was
turned off and the temperature in the unventilated room rose to well
over 100 degrees.
"The detainee was almost unconscious on the floor, with a pile of hair
next to him," the agent reported. "He had apparently been literally
pulling his own hair out throughout the night."
The FBI documents also included a report about a prisoner in Cuba
whose legs were injured and who said he lied about being a terrorist
for fear that otherwise the U.S. military would amputate him.
"He indicated he was injured severely and in a lot of pain," the FBI
wrote. Yet the prisoner constantly was being asked whether he had
attended a terrorist camp in Afghanistan.
The agent wrote that the prisoner "stated he wanted to receive decent
medical treatment, and felt the only way to get it was to tell the
Americans what they wanted to hear."
-----
Yang
a.a. #28
AthD (h.c.) conferred by the regents of the LCL
a.a. pastor #-273.15, the most frigid church of Celcius nee Kelvin
EAC Econometric Forecast and Sorcery Division
Proudly plonked by Lani Girl and Crazyalec aka
The Bush 'balanced' budget: 1.6 trillion and worsening
The Bush 'economic' policy: 12 million FEWER jobs than Clinton and counting
The Bush Iraq lie: -1332 GIs, one friend's co-worker's son and mounting
Having Bush ***** up my country: Worthless
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| User: "igtheist" |
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| Title: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_OT:_Fresh_Details_Emerge_on_Harsh_Methods_at_Guant=E1namo?= |
03 Jan 2005 08:08:38 PM |
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"What about sticking cigarettes into detainees' ears, did your grandma
do that to you too?"
When I was a teenager we used to put lit cigarettes between our arms to
see who could handle it longer.
We didn't however sever each others heads as a prank.
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| User: "Crazyalec" |
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| Title: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_OT:_Fresh_Details_Emerge_on_Harsh_Methods_at_Guant=E1namo?= |
05 Jan 2005 06:56:51 PM |
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Yang, if you move to Saudi, you can be molested by imams. Think about
it.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_OT:_Fresh_Details_Emerge_on_Harsh_Methods_at_Guant=E1namo?= |
02 Jan 2005 11:17:41 PM |
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I'm not sure which bothers me more - their cruelty, the political and
other costs of this behavior for the US, or the sheer stupidity of
thinking that this will actually get any information.
The people responsible for this, and those carrying it out, are
traitors.
Kermit
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| User: "igtheist" |
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| Title: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_OT:_Fresh_Details_Emerge_on_Harsh_Methods_at_Guant=E1namo?= |
03 Jan 2005 08:22:07 PM |
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I didn't hear the Democrats complaining when they were blaring music at
the Branch Davidians, cut off their water, pumped flammable levels of
tear gas into the building. I didn't hear the undermining the country
when Clinton dropped bombs on civilians in Serbia. Hypocrites.
I don't believe torture serves any useful purpose. However, they keep
harping on what are rather minor abuses. The stuff that was done at
Abu Girab was at the level of <a
href="http://media.ebaumsworld.com/index.php?e=funnypranks.wmv">
college pranks.</a>. Things that should send a soldier to the brig
for six months. You'd be surprised at the nasty things our troops did
during WWII.
What's objectionable is how much the left wants the U.S. to fail.
They don't care what the Iraqis want and are doing everything in the
power to distort the Iraq war into something it is not.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: OT: Fresh Details Emerge on Harsh Methods at Guantánamo |
02 Jan 2005 11:23:14 PM |
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On 2 Jan 2005 21:17:41 -0800, wrote:
I'm not sure which bothers me more - their cruelty, the political and
other costs of this behavior for the US, or the sheer stupidity of
thinking that this will actually get any information.
The people responsible for this, and those carrying it out, are
traitors.
The double standard. We rightly object when other countries we don't
like do this. But it's OK when we do it because we're teh good guys.
But heck - we _expect_ the bad guys to do this sort of thing. And
we're the good guys so we're not supposed to do it ourselves.
It comes as a shock when we first discover that we are just as bad.
Kermit
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| User: "igtheist" |
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| Title: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_OT:_Fresh_Details_Emerge_on_Harsh_Methods_at_Guant=E1namo?= |
03 Jan 2005 08:25:50 PM |
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Your expectations seem ridiculous to me. What do we have something
like a quarter million people involved fighting a bunch of lunatics who
obey absolutely no rules of war. I certainly expect some percentage
of soldiers to misbehave. I'm surprised they don't just shoot these
detainees. They certainly would have been shot in past wars.
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