On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 01:41:23 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1128994883.b6613b408f86484c61523ec6bf86be3b@teranews> wrote:

"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in
news:WdadnXFD2ovEadfeRVn-sA@megapath.net:

In <lablk1h9i50pavaodjtbh72pff9fsm16sb@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:37:11 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1128965831.7d6fdecf02ebcb38ced09a4f4f3ebe39@teranews> wrote:

Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote
in news:ls7lk156j11d7f7gt965ol6q8vsm741gau@4ax.com:

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:09:57 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1128960597.3fbc161beec8620656dccbd3541175d2@teranews> wrote:

"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in
news:s_SdnbO3ktDSDdfeRVn-rQ@megapath.net:

In <1128952354.202447.126370@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"pluther" <pluther@usa.net> wrote:

Fred Stone wrote:

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/10/10/D8D4UI400.html

India Quake Survivors Complain of Slow Aid By MATTHEW
ROSENBERG Associated Press Writer

URI, India

Angry villagers blocked roads in earthquake-ravaged regions
of Indian- controlled Kashmir on Sunday, complaining the
government was too slow in getting rescue and aid efforts to
them...

Yes - because India is *exactly* the model we want to base
U.S. services on.

I mean, it's not like we live in an incredibly wealthy nation
that can afford a higher level of disaster response or
anything.

<snip>

I see Fred is admitting to our descent into third world
status...

I see Mark is still determined not to get the point.

I see that Fred is still unable to see the actual point rather
than the one he desperately grasped at. Yes, Fred, we all got
what you wanted to say, we also got the point of the facts of the
matter. There is a discrepancy between those two.

The discrepancy is in your mind, Matt. You've directed your ire at
the wrong target. You should be complaining about the *Louisiana
authorities* and *their* stonewalling of the Federal response to
the Katrina disaster.

No, I am directing it as people like the horse judge who spent
scores of millions on ice that got driven around the country and it
still sitting in trucks. That is a sample of the kind of
incompetence at FEMA. You are still stuck on their incompetence in
the first few days, they have shown a breathtaking depth and range
of incompetence.

He's also just flat out lying now.

The only point of contention was the *unprecedented demand by the
Bush administration to federalize the relief effort and evade Posse
Comitatus.

There was nothing unprecedented about it.

Federalizing a relief effort flat out isn't a necessary condition
for the delivery of food, water, nor of rescuing people. The Coast
Guard rescued thousands while FEMA played with org charts. If
federalizing was "necessary," how was the Coast Guard rescuing all
those people?

The Coast Guard is not covered by the Posse Comitatus law in the first
place. Neither is the Navy rescue operations. Posse Comitatus applies
to the use of Federal regular army in a police role, which was
necessary when they moved into New Orleans because of the perception
of violent anarchy generated by misleading MSM media coverage.

What a straw to grab. So the problem now is that the people on the
ground were paying too much attention to the MSM. It is a good thing,
then, that Brown was unaware of what the media was saying for so many
days. You do remember that, don't you?

Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:unplk1tm0dbob3utume9rbjn3nashncafu@4ax.com:

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 19:12:25 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1128971549.21d2fe816b40fd979ea6bdcd2c652d90@teranews> wrote:

Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:lablk1h9i50pavaodjtbh72pff9fsm16sb@4ax.com:

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 17:37:11 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1128965831.7d6fdecf02ebcb38ced09a4f4f3ebe39@teranews> wrote:

Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote
in news:ls7lk156j11d7f7gt965ol6q8vsm741gau@4ax.com:

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 16:09:57 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in
<1128960597.3fbc161beec8620656dccbd3541175d2@teranews> wrote:

"Mark K. Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote in
news:s_SdnbO3ktDSDdfeRVn-rQ@megapath.net:

In <1128952354.202447.126370@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"pluther" <pluther@usa.net> wrote:

Fred Stone wrote:

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/10/10/D8D4UI400.html

India Quake Survivors Complain of Slow Aid By MATTHEW
ROSENBERG Associated Press Writer

URI, India

Angry villagers blocked roads in earthquake-ravaged regions of
Indian- controlled Kashmir on Sunday, complaining the
government was too slow in getting rescue and aid efforts to
them...

Yes - because India is *exactly* the model we want to base U.S.
services on.

I mean, it's not like we live in an incredibly wealthy nation
that can afford a higher level of disaster response or
anything.

<snip>

I see Fred is admitting to our descent into third world
status...

I see Mark is still determined not to get the point.

I see that Fred is still unable to see the actual point rather
than the one he desperately grasped at. Yes, Fred, we all got what
you wanted to say, we also got the point of the facts of the
matter. There is a discrepancy between those two.

The discrepancy is in your mind, Matt. You've directed your ire at
the wrong target. You should be complaining about the *Louisiana
authorities* and *their* stonewalling of the Federal response to the
Katrina disaster.

No, I am directing it as people like the horse judge who spent
scores of millions on ice that got driven around the country and it
still sitting in trucks.

That would be the fellow who had experience with over 150 previous
incidents that involved FEMA, including several hurricane responses.

Gad, doesn't "150 incidents" and "experience" sound like it means
something. Oh well.

That is a sample of the kind of incompetence at
FEMA. You are still stuck on their incompetence in the first few
days, they have shown a breathtaking depth and range of
incompetence.

That is an example of what Clausewitz called "friction".

For a logistics organization like FEMA it is an example of
incompetence.

No, it's not. It's an example of Murphy's Law.

That sort of
miscommunication is unavoidable in a large operation where thousands
of individuals have to coordinate orders across many organizational
boundaries.

A $100 to$200 million miscommunication.

Got cites for those numbers?

Because FEMA lacks the
computer systems to track material or people. Because our incompetent
DHS has gone through CIO after CIO, because they can't finish a single
significant computer system.

They could have contracted with WalMart and Federal Express to do the
logistics, and then you'd be bitching about that.

The real measure is whether such glitches get reported and
corrected. Of course the media fails to tell about the corrections.

The media reports I read had the trucks still sitting by wonder what
to do with the ice.

I'm not surprised that MSM media didn't report what they finally did
when they figured out the screwup.

And this is but one of many such screw ups by FEMA.

Like I said, when you're moving thousands of loads of stuff around among
hundreds of thousands of people you're bound to have a few go astray.
The media, of course, will report those and ignore the thousands and
thousands that get where they're going.