Religions > Atheism > It's not a question of whether the NT is historically correct
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Khubla" |
| Date: |
30 Oct 2005 06:02:42 AM |
| Object: |
It's not a question of whether the NT is historically correct |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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The OT is filled with outright absurdities, gross abuses, murder, and =
insanity. The NT is built upon this foundation. To cut to the quick =
the NT, Jesus and the rest of the fable can easily be discarded as being =
relevant by the falsity of Jesus' words below.
Matthew 16:28=20
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not=20
taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.=20
Mark 9:1=20
And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of=20
them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have=20
seen the kingdom of God come with power.=20
Luke 9:27=20
But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall=20
not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
This didn't happen and it shows Jesus to be just another false prophet =
trying to frighten people into following him. We see these characters =
popping up all the time through out history and Jesus was just another =
scam artist in a long line of false so called prophets.=20
The question is not weather the OT or NT is historically correct (they =
are not) but whether they are true. Everything that can be examined by =
any of our modern methods has shown these books to be false. Just a =
collection of myths borrowed from earlier pagan myths. We have no =
confidence in NT medicine, astronomy, laws, or government so why would a =
intelligent person want to accept these people's religious =
superstitions. Compare the Judeans with the people of Ancient Egypt, =
Greece or the Romans. Compare their cultures, education, buildings, =
rule of law, prosperity. The Israelites were ignorant, unwashed =
barbarians by any comparison and contemporary historians tell us this.=20
Most but not all religious leaders are hypocrites. I had the pleasure =
of having a personal audience with HH, The Dalai Lama at his home in =
McLeod Ganj (near Dharmasala, India) in the early 1990s and found a man =
of profound wisdom guiding his people in a very meaningful way. One of =
his often quoted statement is "If scientific analysis were conclusively =
to demonstrate certain claims in Buddhism to be false, then we must =
accept the findings of science and abandon those claims" =20
How much better off Christians would be, along with Judaism and Islam, =
to adopt this enlightened view.
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<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><?xml:namespace =
prefix =3D o ns =3D=20
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2> The OT is filled with outright absurdities, gross abuses, =
murder,=20
and insanity. The NT is built upon this foundation. To cut =
to the=20
quick the NT, Jesus and the rest of the fable can easily be discarded as =
being=20
relevant by the falsity of Jesus' words below.</FONT></o:p></P>
<P><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT =
size=3D2>Matthew 16:28=20
<BR>Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not=20
<BR>taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.=20
<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT =
size=3D2>Mark 9:1=20
<BR>And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of =
<BR>them=20
that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have <BR>seen =
the=20
kingdom of <SPAN style=3D"BACKGROUND: #ffff66; COLOR: black">God</SPAN> =
come with=20
power. <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT =
size=3D2>Luke 9:27=20
<BR>But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall =
<BR>not=20
taste of death, till they see the kingdom of <SPAN=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #ffff66; COLOR: =
black">God</SPAN>.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT=20
size=3D2>This </FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT =
size=3D2>didn't happen and=20
it shows Jesus to be just another false prophet trying to frighten =
people into=20
following him. We see these characters popping up all the time =
through out=20
history and Jesus was just another scam artist in a long line of false =
so called=20
prophets. </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT =
size=3D2>The=20
question is not weather the OT or NT is historically correct (they are =
not) but=20
whether they are true. </FONT> <FONT size=3D2>Everything =
that can=20
be examined by any of our modern methods has shown these books to be=20
false. Just a collection of myths borrowed from earlier pagan =
myths. We have no confidence in NT medicine, astronomy, laws,=20
or government so why would a intelligent person want to =
accept=20
these people's religious superstitions. Compare the Judeans =
with the=20
people of Ancient Egypt, Greece or the Romans. Compare their =
cultures,=20
education, buildings, rule of law, prosperity. The Israelites were =
ignorant, unwashed barbarians by any comparison and contemporary =
historians tell=20
us this. </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><FONT =
size=3D2>Most but=20
not all religious leaders are hypocrites. I had the pleasure =
of=20
having a personal audience with HH, The Dalai Lama at his home in McLeod =
Ganj=20
(near Dharmasala, India) in the early 1990s and found a man of =
profound wisdom guiding his people in a very meaningful way. One =
of=20
his often quoted statement is "</FONT></o:p></SPAN><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>If scientific analysis were conclusively to demonstrate certain =
claims in=20
Buddhism to be false, then we must accept the findings of science and =
abandon=20
those claims" </FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>How much better off Christians would be, =
along with=20
Judaism and Islam, to adopt this enlightened=20
view.</FONT></P></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: It's not a question of whether the NT is historically correct |
30 Oct 2005 07:01:07 AM |
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Khubla:
Matthew 16:28
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not
taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Peter:
Although I share your admiration for the Daila Lama,
You should have some considerations about the "falsness" of the N
It was put together severl generation after Jesus,
and therefor the compilers knew it had not happened.
I suspect it's there truthfullness that made them keep these claims in,
so I suspect Jesus really said that!
That doesn't make Jesus a liar either.
I assume he really ment what he was saying,
just as Muhammed Ali ment it when he said he would defeat Joe Frazier.
Unlike Muhammed Ali however, Jesus didn't have a secons chance for the
title:)
Think about it
Peter van Velzen
October 2005
Amstelveen
The Netherlands.
.
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| User: "Del" |
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| Title: Re: It's not a question of whether the NT is historically correct |
31 Oct 2005 05:13:11 AM |
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wrote:
Khubla:
Matthew 16:28
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not
taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Peter:
Although I share your admiration for the Dail a Lama,
You should have some considerations about the "falsness" of the N
It was put together severl generation after Jesus,
and therefor the compilers knew it had not happened.
I suspect it's there truthfullness that made them keep these claims i n,
so I suspect Jesus really said that!
That doesn't make Jesus a liar either.
I assume he really ment what he was saying,
just as Muhammed Ali ment it when he said he would defeat Joe Frazier.
He did defeat Joe Frazier. Twice.
i
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: It's not a question of whether the NT is historically correct |
31 Oct 2005 12:54:10 PM |
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Del:
He did defeat Joe Frazier. Twice
Peter:
I don't know what fights you are talking about
But the one that kept me awake all night,
- the one that I won't forget all of my live -
because first I had to watch,
and then I couldn't get over my hero losing,
was - according to the judges - won by Joe Frazier.
Who kept the title,
until he was used as a boxing ball, by George Foreman
It was only against Forman (rumble in the jungle)
that Ali regained his rightfull properties:)
Think about it
Peter van Velzen
October 2005
Amstelveen
The Netherlannds
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| User: "Del" |
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| Title: Re: It's not a question of whether the NT is historically correct |
31 Oct 2005 05:13:16 PM |
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wrote:
Del:
He did defeat Joe Frazier. Twice
Peter:
I don't know what fights you are talking about
But the one that kept me awake all night,
- the one that I won't forget all of my live -
because first I had to watch,
and then I couldn't get over my hero losing,
was - according to the judges - won by Joe Frazier.
Who kept the title,
until he was used as a boxing ball, by George Foreman
It was only against Forman (rumble in the jungle)
that Ali regained h is rightfull properties:)
That's right. That was their first fight in 1971 where
Frazier knocked Ali down in the 15th round (only the
second time Ali had ever been down: the first time to
the left handed Brit, Henry Cooper in 63, but I digress).
But they fought 2 more times, two incredible fights,
both of which Ali won decisively.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: It's not a question of whether the NT is historically correct |
30 Oct 2005 10:25:34 PM |
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On 30 Oct 2005 05:01:07 -0800, "pbamvv@worldonline.nl"
<pbamvv@worldonline.nl> wrote:
Khubla:
Matthew 16:28
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not
taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Peter:
Although I share your admiration for the Daila Lama,
You should have some considerations about the "falsness" of the N
It was put together severl generation after Jesus,
and therefor the compilers knew it had not happened.
I suspect it's there truthfullness that made them keep these claims in,
so I suspect Jesus really said that!
That doesn't make Jesus a liar either.
I assume he really ment what he was saying,
just as Muhammed Ali ment it when he said he would defeat Joe Frazier.
Unlike Muhammed Ali however, Jesus didn't have a secons chance for the
title:)
Think about it
Peter van Velzen
October 2005
Amstelveen
The Netherlands.
May I paraphrase:
"It's very cleary wrong, so it MUST be right!"
Are you a writer for George Bush?
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: It's not a question of whether the NT is historically correct |
31 Oct 2005 12:49:19 PM |
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You may paraphrase what you like.
But if I write down:
And Kerry Spoke " I am going to win the election"
than doesn't mean I tell a lie,
neither does it me, he told a lie.
Nevertheless he did not win.
(Though, unlike Jesus, Kerry can have another go:)
Think About it
Peter van Velzen
October 2005
Amstelveen
The Netherlands.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: It's not a question of whether the NT is historically correct |
31 Oct 2005 09:48:08 PM |
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On 31 Oct 2005 10:49:19 -0800, "pbamvv@worldonline.nl"
<pbamvv@worldonline.nl> wrote:
You may paraphrase what you like.
But if I write down:
And Kerry Spoke " I am going to win the election"
than doesn't mean I tell a lie,
neither does it me, he told a lie.
Nevertheless he did not win.
(Though, unlike Jesus, Kerry can have another go:)
:
Your train of thought implicitly relies on the assumption that both
Jesus and Kerry actually existed, for it not to be travelling on a
very tight circular track.
One element of this assumption is based on the very evidence for which
the assumption supposedly provides support.
I am prepared to grant the likelihood of Kerry existing, at least
physically.
*You* think about it...
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: It's not a question of whether the NT is historically correct |
01 Nov 2005 12:03:58 PM |
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Michael Gray
Your train of thought implicitly relies on the assumption that both
Jesus and Kerry actually existed, for it not to be travelling on a
very tight circular track.
One element of this assumption is based on the very evidence for which
the assumption supposedly provides support.
I am prepared to grant the likelihood of Kerry existing, at least
physically.
*You* think about it...
Peter:
Please notice:
I do not maintain - in this thread - that Jesus actually existed,
Instead strongly suggest the authors of the NT were thinking they were
giving a genuine account
at least as far as the quotes are concerned that Khubla gives.
I also maintain that if Jesus did exist - which might not be the case -
the quotes don't make him a liar; just a bad analist:)
My train of thought started of after I read Kubla's
"Jesus and the rest of the fable can easily be discarded as being
relevant by the falsity of Jesus' words below.".
I found some objection to that.
Now Khubla did not suggest to discard anything because he didn't want
to assume Jesus existed.
No Khubla suggested we discard Jesus and the NT because Jesuses words
didn't come true.
Because Khubla used the words "falsity" I just wanted to remind him,
that although the quotes madeJesus a bad predictor,
they do not mean he - if he existed - couldn't have believed what he
was saying,
nor that the story about him saying so was not true.
I find however, that whenever I propose, the account may at some point
be genuine,
almost everybody goes against me, for no logical reason at all.
If the authors made up the story,
why wouldn't they make Jesus predict something that actually happened,
but let him make a false prediction instead?
Apart from them believing their account was genuine,
I can't think of another reason. Can you?
Think about it
Peter van Velzen
October 2005
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: It's not a question of whether the NT is historically correct |
01 Nov 2005 10:14:39 PM |
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On 1 Nov 2005 10:03:58 -0800, "pbamvv@worldonline.nl"
<pbamvv@worldonline.nl> wrote:
Michael Gray
Your train of thought implicitly relies on the assumption that both
Jesus and Kerry actually existed, for it not to be travelling on a
very tight circular track.
One element of this assumption is based on the very evidence for which
the assumption supposedly provides support.
I am prepared to grant the likelihood of Kerry existing, at least
physically.
*You* think about it...
Peter:
Please notice:
I do not maintain - in this thread - that Jesus actually existed,
Instead strongly suggest the authors of the NT were thinking they were
giving a genuine account
at least as far as the quotes are concerned that Khubla gives.
I also maintain that if Jesus did exist - which might not be the case -
the quotes don't make him a liar; just a bad analist:)
My train of thought started of after I read Kubla's
"Jesus and the rest of the fable can easily be discarded as being
relevant by the falsity of Jesus' words below.".
I found some objection to that.
Now Khubla did not suggest to discard anything because he didn't want
to assume Jesus existed.
No Khubla suggested we discard Jesus and the NT because Jesuses words
didn't come true.
Because Khubla used the words "falsity" I just wanted to remind him,
that although the quotes madeJesus a bad predictor,
they do not mean he - if he existed - couldn't have believed what he
was saying,
nor that the story about him saying so was not true.
I find however, that whenever I propose, the account may at some point
be genuine,
almost everybody goes against me, for no logical reason at all.
If the authors made up the story,
why wouldn't they make Jesus predict something that actually happened,
but let him make a false prediction instead?
Apart from them believing their account was genuine,
I can't think of another reason. Can you?
Think about it
Peter van Velzen
October 2005
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: It's not a question of whether the NT is historically correct |
31 Oct 2005 12:49:22 PM |
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You may paraphrase what you like.
But if I write down:
And Kerry Spoke " I am going to win the election"
than doesn't mean I tell a lie,
neither does it me, he told a lie.
Nevertheless he did not win.
(Though, unlike Jesus, Kerry can have another go:)
Think About it
Peter van Velzen
October 2005
Amstelveen
The Netherlands.
.
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