Religions > Atheism > I've heard a claim that atheism actually creates *more* moral responsibility than theism
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"V" |
| Date: |
12 Apr 2007 11:38:02 AM |
| Object: |
I've heard a claim that atheism actually creates *more* moral responsibility than theism |
(...) writes:
"Is there any data on correlations between levels of atheism and
levels
of morally unacceptable sexual behaviors like homosexual sex, sex
outside of marriage, sexual promiscuity (including scanty dress and
body showoffs), etc. I've heard a claim that atheism actually creates
*more* moral responsibility than theism. So, I'm curious as to what
the hard data says."
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
V:
In theory yes. BUT I'd have to say this 'theory' is a pipe dream of
yours, just as Yahweh may be the pipe dream of the theists..
I've disused the topics of morals and ethics many time at
alt.atheism..let me share some of the replies from the 'moral
majority' of atheists there.
One time I brought up this subject of right speech at alt.atheism and
was responded to as such.
Robibnikoff wrote: "So. Fucking what...do you think I give a flying
***** what you think, dipshit...Not that it's any of YOUR fucking
business...Don't presume that you know what's best for me, you
deluded, motherfucking, cocksucking son of a *****." (condensed)
With my first few posts, I offered to discuss tools that the atheist,
agnostic or theist can use develop inner peace.
These are just a few of the response from alt.athyeim on the subjects
of compassion, simplicity, ethics, morals, mindfulness, reciprocity,
charity, accepting impermanence, gratitude etc.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kate wrote: "I've never been not at peace. What you offer makes me
physically ill. It's like a nasty man come round to tell little
kiddees he has candy for them if they touch his pee pee. You know,
most of the atheists I know are as good as children are at discerning
misrepresentation. You aren't trying to help anyone but your own
self. Go away, we have no interest in touching your pee pee."
John Baker wrote: "First of all, this is a newsgroup, not the
freaking public library. Keep it short and to the point. Second,
you're full of *****."
Christopher A. Lee wrote: "What the ***** has philosophy got to do
with your in-your-face psychopathy?"
Michael Gray wrote: "Stop posting your vile polemic deliberately
nasty, lying Christian? . Please go away. No-one is buying your
poisonous diatribe. Are you really this stupid, or just pretending?"
Christopher A. Lee wrote: "We know this deliberately nasty,
slandering liar is a Christian by his fruits...a liar as well as an
idiot...don't be so fucking stupid."
Christopher A. Lee wrote: "You wouldn't know "virtuous behaviour" if
it hit you over the head, whining hypocrite who needs to get the log
out of his own eye before accusing us of a projection of his own
deficiencies."
Christopher A. Lee wrote: "a few hundred lines of irrelevant *****
by a whining hypocrite who
doesn't practice what he preaches, deleted"
Robibnikoff wrote: "Shaddup, you *****."
Michael Gray wrote: "There ain't nothin' lamer than a jabriol
fuckwit"
Christopher A. Lee wrote: "Whi give a *****, in-your-face stuipid
moron?"
John Baker wrote: 'I'd almost feel sorry for him if he wasn't such
a disgusting piece of *****."
Robibnikoff wrote: "I hope that stupid fucker (V) doesn't think I
actually read all that dog ***** he posts."
Robibnikoff wrote: "....no one gives a ***** what you think."
Christopher A. Lee wrote: "So fucking what? Keep it to yourself and
nobody will know what an ***** you are."
Stoney wrote: Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to shove a
wooden cross up their arses and rotate at a high rate of speed. I
trust you'll be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I could send you an almost endless supply of such material to prove
the point that without spiritual values, the atheist is sunk. The
conundrum of the mind manacled, defiance based, spiritually sick
atheist is this. They need spiritual values to be at peace - yet their
own defiance blocks them from seeking and finding these values.
The atheist that only has a foundation of ego and hate will never find
peace. If any theist questioning their faith should wonder onto
alt.atheism, for instance, they could see this for themselves with
many spiritually sick example members and their projection of this
spiritual sickness and self hate onto others
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark K Bilbo wrote: "..you're an *****...a self-absorbed *****
who thinks everything is about him."
Mark K Bilbo wrote: "For a "peace" freak, you sure are a spiteful
little *****."
Panama Floyd wrote: "...this guy is funny. Why don't we wait a while
before we eat him? Maybe he'll poopie himself!."
John Baker wrote: "Oh, shut the ***** up, you self-righteous twit."
Robibnikoff wrote: "***** you, liar"
Robibnikoff wrote: "Blah, blah, blah... you boring sack of *****."
Michael Gray wrote: "You exhibit all the signs of full clinical
sociopathy, if not actual psychopathy. You need professional help, but
won't take it, as that would entail admitting that the Fuckups that
are always happening to you are YOUR fault."
Michael Gray wrote: "If you insist upon continuing to strut your
massive ego and miniscule education in alt.atheism, we'll use you for
target practice, until we get bored with your repetitious long-winded
empty-headed *****-frosted ignorance."
Michael Gray wrote: "What do you expect from a lying sack of *****?"
Raven1 wrote: "God, will you get over that fucking ego of yours
already?"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All atheists are not like this. Some spiritual based atheist far
surpass theists in compassion and inner peace. The troubling thing at
alt.atheism is no one speaks out against such illness and this IS
being promoted as atheistic view. I wrote to the president of American
Atheists, I wrote to the UK Atheists as well s a Secular Humanist
Foundation and Sam Harris about this very topic...none had the
courtesy to respond.
I try to offer some advice of right speech, but atheists in general
are a defiant lot and don't like advice unless it stems from their own
ego. There are also too many sick individuals to counsel and it would
be hard to do even if a dozen took on the job, let alone one person.
Atheists are their own worse enemy when it comes to promoting their
cause and trampling over organized religion. Just as the bible is a
major force with theists leaving religion, the spiritually sick, mind
manacled, defiance based atheist is the best reason that theists
return to their religion. Such wavering theists quickly come to
realize that without a foundation spirituality the atheist is sunk and
rapidly head back to their church, temple or fellowship to get away
from such people.
I brought up the topic of developing a 'church of sorts' or atheist
fellowship to lend guidance and support for right living and
reinforcing the ethics morals and the ideals of atheists and secular
humanism.
I'll leave you with just a few more quotes from Panama Floyd as he
writes on the subject of developing human empathy and compassion to
support moral, ethical and right living through such a fellowship:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Panama Floyd wrote: "The only thing I need to "support moral,
ethical and right living" is simple human empathy and compassion. That
anyone would need anything else is a mystery to me. Perhaps I'm just a
better person than they are."
Panama Floyd wrote: "Then don't whine like a ***** when your butt
gets fucked,"
Panama Floyd wrote:: "...Take it (bible) and shove it up that smelly
little ***** you're using for a *****."
Panama Floyd wrote: "You're not smart enough, or brave enough to be
an atheist. Keep your idiotic dead-jew-on-a-stick, buttsuck. Fear of
it is probably the only thing keeping you from having sex with your
siblings."
Panama Floyd wrote: "Shaddap, *****. If I want your opinion, I'll
give you one."
Panama Floyd wrote:: "Go ***** yourself, Christian...Were I a violent
man, I'd advocate you all being rounded up and jailed, to keep you
from ruining other lives."
Panama Floyd wrote: "Go ***** yourself, shitstain. You come in here
and insult people-and then whine about the reception you get? *****, I
wish it caused you physical pain to be so ruthlessly stupid."
Panama Floyd wrote: "***** ya brainless fucking twat!"
Panama Floyd wrote: "***** Jesus. Your dead-jew-on-a-stick probably
never existed, and if he did, he was man-not a god. I don't take
"commands" from an illiterate, superstitious Bronze Age peasant.'
Panama Floyd: wrote: "What are *you* doing back here, you dumb *****-
assed punk? Ways of disposing with the human garbage called
"missionaries" is very definately on-topic."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Atheists say they are truth based and subscribe to secular humanism,
but this could not be further from truth to what actually is. Atheists
have no God on their backs to admonish them and cause them grief or
fear. But, even though they are free from religion and God, the
atheists as a group (the spiritually sick atheists that is, as the
spiritually well atheist can surpass most theists in 'real' goodness)
are some of the most miserable, sad specimens of humanity I have ever
come across...a really a sad testimony to atheism.
This is the beauty of being a 'true freethinker' versus being a mind
manacled, defiant based atheist or a theist suffering from cognitive
dissonance. True freethinkers can think for themselves. As such, when
we get a toolbox we can decide which tools to use for the job. Some
tools are used a lot, other tools are left alone for the time being,
and still others are trashed when we see they are broken and useless.
Again, a freethinker is 'free to decide' how they wish to proceed. No,
egocentricity is not good for spiritual work and we need to be open to
others ideas and embrace them as nourishment for your growth and
sustenance for life - as no one person is god.
Traditional freethinkers do not accept me as one of their group, since
I draw from spiritual paths as well as wordily areas to garner wisdom
to live at peace. Traditional freethinkers do not like anything that
comes from religion. Kind of a misnomer isn't it...I'm a
freethinker...but I must block out everything that comes from religion
and spiritual traditions and whatever other prejudice I wish to inject
into the equation?
Psychologist William James once said, "A great many people believe
they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."
When we limit prejudice we can open our minds to truth and peace. And
realize the truth of Blake's words that "all deities reside within the
human breast." If it is religion that an atheists need to adopt, they
only have to look as far as the religion of humanity. But just paying
secular humanism lip service will not do any good. Our talk of
spiritual values must match our actions.
But spiritual values and atheists do not generally mix. One atheists
gave his views on this subject of discussing spiritual tools to live
by:
AK writes:
"What is spirit or spirituality? Without knowing what you mean by the
word, one can't know what you mean. Why study something for which you
not only have no evidence, but not even a definition?"
Yes, spiritual concepts are hard to define, just as the source of the
wind is hard to define. Since spiritual matters deal with the unseen
and the unknown, how can we define them perfectly? If we could do that
they would not be spiritual studies. You can't see why one person is
loving and kind and another person is a fiend of perennial shame, hate
and destruction. Nor can you see what made the hate monger change into
a kind and loving human. We can describe spiritual concepts and the
journey that made the change possible, but it is impossible to put our
finger on it all exactly. Spiritual growth is a journey that is a
never ending, an imperfect process in this life. But just as we can
see the effects of the wind, while being blind to its source; we can
most definitely see the difference in people that incorporate
spiritual values within their lives when compared to people that live
a life devoid of any spiritual values.
Their are many fields of spiritual studies. We can separate the
studies into two main fields; the corporeal and the meta-corporeal.
Some of these studies deal with energy fields, meditative states of
consciousness, out of body and near death accounts, psychic research,
etc. Most of my work is in the corporal realm. I leave the advanced
studies to those better qualified for it than myself. Britain and the
US both have centers for psychic research. Plenty of information is
out there if you are interested in studying it.
"No man is so wise that he may not easily err if he takes no other
counsel than his own. He that is taught only by himself has a fool for
a master." Ben Jonson
No one said we have to 'investigate it all,' but we do have to give it
some thought if we wish to be at peace. A Hindu sage once told me
"Just as water floes downhill without effort but requires outside
forces and energy to make it move uphill. So the human consciousness
falls to its lowest levels of the senses without effort and energies
to make our consciousness gravitate to more than our base desires." As
such without effort the defiance based atheists sinks deeper and
deeper into sickness and tragedy as time goes by.
The business of humanism is 'all our business' if we with to live life
at peace. This relationship of interdependent humanistic balance can
best be visualized in the 3 corners of a triangle which represents the
spiritual realm, other persons and ourselves At the top goes Higher
Power / God of Peace and God of Nature / Yahweh / Buddha / The
Dharma / Nature / Karma / Universe or whatever you choose as the
unseen force behind all. On the bottom right corner of the triangle
goes other people. On the left bottom corner of the triangle goes
yourself. Keeping this relationship in harmonious balance helps
develop compassion for others and humility within ourselves.
We learn to think about others and the spirit as well as our own needs
and we can then see we are all interdependent and not independent with
all. Once you see this balance you will realize that we all share the
same breath and no need to practice hatred or develop ill will towards
others. It is much better to develop compassion for others. For as we
develop compassion for others we develop peace within, just as it is a
law that when we develop hatred for others we develop hatred within.
No, egocentricity is not good for spiritual work and we need to be
open to others ideas and embrace them as nourishment for your growth
and sustenance for life - as no one person is god. As a freethinking
agnostic I AM FREE to look for truth wherever the road takes me. I
discriminate against no one. As such, I study with the Christians, the
Buddhists, the Jews, the Muslims, the Taoists and even find truth as I
study with the atheists.
For further discussion of related topics see:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=4.0
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=91.0
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=133.0
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=342.0
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
AA#2
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| User: "Elf M. Sternberg" |
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| Title: Re: I've heard a claim that atheism actually creates *more* moralresponsibility than theism |
14 Apr 2007 08:57:45 PM |
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"V" <vfr44@aol.com> writes:
(...) writes:
"Is there any data on correlations between levels of atheism and
levels
of morally unacceptable sexual behaviors like homosexual sex, sex
outside of marriage, sexual promiscuity (including scanty dress and
body showoffs), etc. I've heard a claim that atheism actually creates
*more* moral responsibility than theism. So, I'm curious as to what
the hard data says."
The hard data indicates, clearly, that atheists have the
second-lowest divorce rate in the country; counties of overwhelmingly
Southern Baptist populations have the highest rates of domestic abuse;
and the "no religion" population in prison is proportionally the
lowest of all religious groups compared to the general population.
Elf
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| User: "Vigyazat" |
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| Title: Re: I've heard a claim that atheism actually creates *more* moral responsibility than theism |
12 Apr 2007 08:04:45 PM |
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"V" <vfr44@aol.com> wrote :
Kate wrote:
John Baker wrote:
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
Michael Gray wrote:
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
Robibnikoff wrote:
Michael Gray wrote:
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
John Baker wrote:
Robibnikoff wrote:
Robibnikoff wrote:
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
Stoney wrote:
[...]
I could send you an almost endless supply of such material to prove
the point that without spiritual values, the atheist is sunk.
The question I'd have to ask is, would your endless supply of smarm and
spite from atheists contain an endless number of names? Or would it
list, as above, the same names over and over again? The implication you
make is that atheists are amoral at best and immoral at worst - yet you
can quote only six names here. At least one of these I know from my own
experience to be naturally quick to anger and abusiveness. So do you
really hope to convince anyone that this short list of names represents
the average atheist?
The
conundrum of the mind manacled, defiance based, spiritually sick
atheist is this. They need spiritual values to be at peace - yet their
own defiance blocks them from seeking and finding these values.
The irony is that you pretend to be an agnostic, and try to illustrate
this by throwing in the occasional half-hearted 'possibly' or 'maybe'
when talking about God, but really throw yourself into it wholeheartedly
when pointing out the flaws of atheists. It's not difficult to see what
your true religious affiliation is.
Atheists say they are truth based and subscribe to secular humanism,
but this could not be further from truth to what actually is.
You're not in any position to make decrees about what 'the truth' is with
regard to atheism. A common symptom of fiercely-held religious beliefs
is the inability to recognise the wide range of attitudes and views
amongst atheists - just as you seem to believe all atheists can be lumped
together and described in simple terms as though they're all the same.
It's very telling.
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
AA#2
I think we've been here before, but... Who issued you that AA number,
and why do you wear it, bearing in mind your intense dislike and distrust
of atheists?
--
Vigyazat (Midwinter)
Pagan Freethinker
Distruster of Hypocrites and the Deceitful
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| User: "ZenIsWhen" |
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| Title: Re: I've heard a claim that atheism actually creates *more* moral responsibility than theism |
12 Apr 2007 12:11:26 PM |
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"V" <vfr44@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1176395882.021546.41500@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
(...) writes:
"Is there any data on correlations between levels of atheism and
levels
of morally unacceptable sexual behaviors like homosexual sex, sex
outside of marriage, sexual promiscuity (including scanty dress and
body showoffs), etc. I've heard a claim that atheism actually creates
*more* moral responsibility than theism. So, I'm curious as to what
the hard data says."
"Morally" unacceptable is in the eye of the beholder.
I can do ALL of the things you mentioned, and yet think myself morally
acceptable ....... while you can support the actions of totally corrupt
politicians and think yourself "morally acceptable".
Hint: The universe does NOT run by what YOU consider morally acceptable or
unacceptable.
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
V:
In theory yes. BUT I'd have to say this 'theory' is a pipe dream of
yours, just as Yahweh may be the pipe dream of the theists..
I've disused the topics of morals and ethics many time at
alt.atheism..let me share some of the replies from the 'moral
majority' of atheists there.
One time I brought up this subject of right speech at alt.atheism and
was responded to as such.
Robibnikoff wrote: "So. Fucking what...do you think I give a flying
***** what you think, dipshit...Not that it's any of YOUR fucking
business...Don't presume that you know what's best for me, you
deluded, motherfucking, cocksucking son of a *****." (condensed)
With my first few posts, I offered to discuss tools that the atheist,
agnostic or theist can use develop inner peace.
These are just a few of the response from alt.athyeim on the subjects
of compassion, simplicity, ethics, morals, mindfulness, reciprocity,
charity, accepting impermanence, gratitude etc.
and one can easily assume that you have excerpted and edited the content to
suit your argument.
.
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| User: "Greywolf" |
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| Title: Re: I've heard a claim that atheism actually creates *more* moral responsibility than theism |
12 Apr 2007 05:02:15 PM |
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"ZenIsWhen" <hereslooking@you.com> wrote in message
news:2LtTh.6002$SK3.5108@trnddc03...
"V" <vfr44@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1176395882.021546.41500@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
(...) writes:
"Is there any data on correlations between levels of atheism and
levels
of morally unacceptable sexual behaviors like homosexual sex, sex
outside of marriage, sexual promiscuity (including scanty dress and
body showoffs), etc.
Now don't you go 'piling' on poor Ted Haggard again. He's not an atheist,
you know. He's a ... Oh, *you* know.
I've heard a claim that atheism actually creates
*more* moral responsibility than theism. So, I'm curious as to what
the hard data says."
Well if you check the religious background of the inmates in prison;
*especially* those in there for committing sexual crimes against children, I
don't think you're going to find too many that were brought up atheist. I
would bet the vast majority have come right out of 'bible believin',
God-fearing' homes.
I am enduring vile, hateful, even 'sadistic' treatment at the hands of
people who proudly call themselves 'Christians'. Where is the 'Christian' in
*that*?
(Don't worry. I can readily differentiate between the 'good' Christian and
the 'good for nothing' Christian by one very good measuring yardstick --
their *actions*!)
Greywolf
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: I've heard a claim that atheism actually creates *more* moral responsibility than theism |
12 Apr 2007 01:54:46 PM |
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"V" <vfr44@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1176395882.021546.41500@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
(...) writes:
Long-winded, arrogant *****.
<***** deleted>
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "raven1" |
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| Title: Re: I've heard a claim that atheism actually creates *more* moral responsibility than theism |
12 Apr 2007 02:33:01 PM |
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On 12 Apr 2007 09:38:02 -0700, "V" <vfr44@aol.com> wrote:
I've disused the topics of morals and ethics many time at
alt.atheism..
No, you haven't: you've pontificated endlessly like an egomaniac in
love with the sound of his own voice, who feels superior to everyone
else, and regards them condescendingly. Do you really wonder why no
forum can stand you?
--
"O Sybilli, si ergo
Fortibus es in ero
O Nobili! Themis trux
Sivat sinem? Causen Dux"
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| User: "bramble" |
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| Title: Re: I've heard a claim that atheism actually creates *more* moral responsibility than theism |
12 Apr 2007 04:55:25 PM |
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On 12 abr, 17:38, "V" <v...@aol.com> wrote:
(...) writes:
"Is there any data on correlations between levels of atheism and
levels
of morally unacceptable sexual behaviors like homosexual sex, sex
outside of marriage, sexual promiscuity (including scanty dress and
body showoffs), etc. I've heard a claim that atheism actually creates
*more* moral responsibility than theism. So, I'm curious as to what
the hard data says."
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
V:
In theory yes. BUT I'd have to say this 'theory' is a pipe dream of
yours, just as Yahweh may be the pipe dream of the theists..
I've disused the topics of morals and ethics many time at
alt.atheism..let me share some of the replies from the 'moral
majority' of atheists there.
Well, dude.
That you had posted this long message is a sign of malevolence.
We do not know the context in which these insults were thrown at you.
And it is my experience that sometimes we get so angry that feel the
need to reply this way.
So, to be moral, whatever the meaning this have, is rather difficult.
If by moral yu mean to avoid mistreatment of other people, I think we
are moral people. Most of us are against death penalty and against kid
beating or in general child punishment.
But I Think you were doing a nasty piece of writing by compiling all
the nasty things they had thrown at you. Why? Because you do not
show the provocation behind these insults.
I can argue with anyone about the moral meaning in a secular context.
of course, I would not accept as an argument any quotes from the
Bible, the Koran, or the Vedas.
If you want to debate on a purely philosophical way about morals, I
can do it. I do not need to insult you, unless you behave
irrationally.
Bramble
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: I've heard a claim that atheism actually creates *more* moral responsibility than theism |
12 Apr 2007 09:42:04 PM |
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On 12 Apr 2007 14:55:25 -0700, "bramble" <leopoldo.perdomo@gmail.com>
wrote:
Well, dude.
That you had posted this long message is a sign of malevolence.
We do not know the context in which these insults were thrown at you.
Sure we do. His in-your-face assholery. He insults people, he lies
to them ABOUT them, then he can't understand why they don't like him.
.
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
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| Title: Re: I've heard a claim that atheism actually creates *more* moral responsibility than theism |
12 Apr 2007 10:20:39 PM |
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On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 22:42:04 -0400, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On 12 Apr 2007 14:55:25 -0700, "bramble" <leopoldo.perdomo@gmail.com>
wrote:
Well, dude.
That you had posted this long message is a sign of malevolence.
We do not know the context in which these insults were thrown at you.
Sure we do. His in-your-face assholery. He insults people, he lies
to them ABOUT them, then he can't understand why they don't like him.
Which their eyes equates to "abusiveness and anger" because the
psychopaths can't see themselves for what they are - after they have
slandered us, or after they have been in-our-face stupid..
.
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: I've heard a claim that atheism actually creates *more* moral responsibility than theism |
12 Apr 2007 03:06:50 PM |
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On Apr 12, 9:38 am, "V" <v...@aol.com> wrote:
(...) writes:
"Is there any data on correlations between levels of atheism and
levels
of morally unacceptable sexual behaviors like homosexual sex, sex
outside of marriage, sexual promiscuity (including scanty dress and
body showoffs), etc. I've heard a claim that atheism actually creates
*more* moral responsibility than theism. So, I'm curious as to what
the hard data says."
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
V:
In theory yes. BUT I'd have to say this 'theory' is a pipe dream of
yours, just as Yahweh may be the pipe dream of the theists..
I've disused the topics of morals and ethics many time at
alt.atheism..let me share some of the replies from the 'moral
majority' of atheists there.
You are being immoral as far as I'm conserned for endlessly quoting
people out of context. Pleading that you don't know how to use Google
is not an excuse, it's a lie.
Plus, I find it fairly hypocritical for you to promote yourself as
some kind of priggish authority on sexual morality after that
lecherous post you started the other day about what young women ought
to consider fashion or not.
One time I brought up this subject of right speech at alt.atheism and
was responded to as such.
Robibnikoff wrote: "So. Fucking what...do you think I give a flying
***** what you think, dipshit...Not that it's any of YOUR fucking
business...Don't presume that you know what's best for me, you
deluded, motherfucking, cocksucking son of a *****." (condensed)
With my first few posts, I offered to discuss tools that the atheist,
agnostic or theist can use develop inner peace.
These are just a few of the response from alt.athyeim on the subjects
of compassion, simplicity, ethics, morals, mindfulness, reciprocity,
charity, accepting impermanence, gratitude etc.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--=AD---------
Kate wrote: "I've never been not at peace. What you offer makes me
physically ill. It's like a nasty man come round to tell little
kiddees he has candy for them if they touch his pee pee. You know,
most of the atheists I know are as good as children are at discerning
misrepresentation. You aren't trying to help anyone but your own
self. Go away, we have no interest in touching your pee pee."
John Baker wrote: "First of all, this is a newsgroup, not the
freaking public library. Keep it short and to the point. Second,
you're full of *****."
Christopher A. Lee wrote: "What the ***** has philosophy got to do
with your in-your-face psychopathy?"
Michael Gray wrote: "Stop posting your vile polemic deliberately
nasty, lying Christian? . Please go away. No-one is buying your
poisonous diatribe. Are you really this stupid, or just pretending?"
Christopher A. Lee wrote: "We know this deliberately nasty,
slandering liar is a Christian by his fruits...a liar as well as an
idiot...don't be so fucking stupid."
Christopher A. Lee wrote: "You wouldn't know "virtuous behaviour" if
it hit you over the head, whining hypocrite who needs to get the log
out of his own eye before accusing us of a projection of his own
deficiencies."
Christopher A. Lee wrote: "a few hundred lines of irrelevant *****
by a whining hypocrite who
doesn't practice what he preaches, deleted"
Robibnikoff wrote: "Shaddup, you *****."
Michael Gray wrote: "There ain't nothin' lamer than a jabriol
fuckwit"
Christopher A. Lee wrote: "Whi give a *****, in-your-face stuipid
moron?"
John Baker wrote: 'I'd almost feel sorry for him if he wasn't such
a disgusting piece of *****."
Robibnikoff wrote: "I hope that stupid fucker (V) doesn't think I
actually read all that dog ***** he posts."
Robibnikoff wrote: "....no one gives a ***** what you think."
Christopher A. Lee wrote: "So fucking what? Keep it to yourself and
nobody will know what an ***** you are."
Stoney wrote: Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to shove a
wooden cross up their arses and rotate at a high rate of speed. I
trust you'll be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--=AD---------
I could send you an almost endless supply of such material to prove
the point that without spiritual values, the atheist is sunk. The
conundrum of the mind manacled, defiance based, spiritually sick
atheist is this. They need spiritual values to be at peace - yet their
own defiance blocks them from seeking and finding these values.
The atheist that only has a foundation of ego and hate will never find
peace. If any theist questioning their faith should wonder onto
alt.atheism, for instance, they could see this for themselves with
many spiritually sick example members and their projection of this
spiritual sickness and self hate onto others
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--=AD---------
Mark K Bilbo wrote: "..you're an *****...a self-absorbed *****
who thinks everything is about him."
Mark K Bilbo wrote: "For a "peace" freak, you sure are a spiteful
little *****."
Panama Floyd wrote: "...this guy is funny. Why don't we wait a while
before we eat him? Maybe he'll poopie himself!."
John Baker wrote: "Oh, shut the ***** up, you self-righteous twit."
Robibnikoff wrote: "***** you, liar"
Robibnikoff wrote: "Blah, blah, blah... you boring sack of *****."
Michael Gray wrote: "You exhibit all the signs of full clinical
sociopathy, if not actual psychopathy. You need professional help, but
won't take it, as that would entail admitting that the Fuckups that
are always happening to you are YOUR fault."
Michael Gray wrote: "If you insist upon continuing to strut your
massive ego and miniscule education in alt.atheism, we'll use you for
target practice, until we get bored with your repetitious long-winded
empty-headed *****-frosted ignorance."
Michael Gray wrote: "What do you expect from a lying sack of *****?"
Raven1 wrote: "God, will you get over that fucking ego of yours
already?"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--=AD---------
All atheists are not like this. Some spiritual based atheist far
surpass theists in compassion and inner peace. The troubling thing at
alt.atheism is no one speaks out against such illness and this IS
being promoted as atheistic view. I wrote to the president of American
Atheists, I wrote to the UK Atheists as well s a Secular Humanist
Foundation and Sam Harris about this very topic...none had the
courtesy to respond.
I try to offer some advice of right speech, but atheists in general
are a defiant lot and don't like advice unless it stems from their own
ego. There are also too many sick individuals to counsel and it would
be hard to do even if a dozen took on the job, let alone one person.
Atheists are their own worse enemy when it comes to promoting their
cause and trampling over organized religion. Just as the bible is a
major force with theists leaving religion, the spiritually sick, mind
manacled, defiance based atheist is the best reason that theists
return to their religion. Such wavering theists quickly come to
realize that without a foundation spirituality the atheist is sunk and
rapidly head back to their church, temple or fellowship to get away
from such people.
I brought up the topic of developing a 'church of sorts' or atheist
fellowship to lend guidance and support for right living and
reinforcing the ethics morals and the ideals of atheists and secular
humanism.
I'll leave you with just a few more quotes from Panama Floyd as he
writes on the subject of developing human empathy and compassion to
support moral, ethical and right living through such a fellowship:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--=AD---------
Panama Floyd wrote: "The only thing I need to "support moral,
ethical and right living" is simple human empathy and compassion. That
anyone would need anything else is a mystery to me. Perhaps I'm just a
better person than they are."
Panama Floyd wrote: "Then don't whine like a ***** when your butt
gets fucked,"
Panama Floyd wrote:: "...Take it (bible) and shove it up that smelly
little ***** you're using for a *****."
Panama Floyd wrote: "You're not smart enough, or brave enough to be
an atheist. Keep your idiotic dead-jew-on-a-stick, buttsuck. Fear of
it is probably the only thing keeping you from having sex with your
siblings."
Panama Floyd wrote: "Shaddap, *****. If I want your opinion, I'll
give you one."
Panama Floyd wrote:: "Go ***** yourself, Christian...Were I a violent
man, I'd advocate you all being rounded up and jailed, to keep you
from ruining other lives."
Panama Floyd wrote: "Go ***** yourself, shitstain. You come in here
and insult people-and then whine about the reception you get? *****, I
wish it caused you physical pain to be so ruthlessly stupid."
Panama Floyd wrote: "***** ya brainless fucking twat!"
Panama Floyd wrote: "***** Jesus. Your dead-jew-on-a-stick probably
never existed, and if he did, he was man-not a god. I don't take
"commands" from an illiterate, superstitious Bronze Age peasant.'
Panama Floyd: wrote: "What are *you* doing back here, you dumb *****-
assed punk? Ways of disposing with the human garbage called
"missionaries" is very definately on-topic."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--=AD---------
Atheists say they are truth based and subscribe to secular humanism,
but this could not be further from truth to what actually is. Atheists
have no God on their backs to admonish them and cause them grief or
fear. But, even though they are free from religion and God, the
atheists as a group (the spiritually sick atheists that is, as the
spiritually well atheist can surpass most theists in 'real' goodness)
are some of the most miserable, sad specimens of humanity I have ever
come across...a really a sad testimony to atheism.
This is the beauty of being a 'true freethinker' versus being a mind
manacled, defiant based atheist or a theist suffering from cognitive
dissonance. True freethinkers can think for themselves. As such, when
we get a toolbox we can decide which tools to use for the job. Some
tools are used a lot, other tools are left alone for the time being,
and still others are trashed when we see they are broken and useless.
Again, a freethinker is 'free to decide' how they wish to proceed. No,
egocentricity is not good for spiritual work and we need to be open to
others ideas and embrace them as nourishment for your growth and
sustenance for life - as no one person is god.
Traditional freethinkers do not accept me as one of their group, since
I draw from spiritual paths as well as wordily areas to garner wisdom
to live at peace. Traditional freethinkers do not like anything that
comes from religion. Kind of a misnomer isn't it...I'm a
freethinker...but I must block out everything that comes from religion
and spiritual traditions and whatever other prejudice I wish to inject
into the equation?
Psychologist William James once said, "A great many people believe
they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."
When we limit prejudice we can open our minds to truth and peace. And
realize the truth of Blake's words that "all deities reside within the
human breast." If it is religion that an atheists need to adopt, they
only have to look as far as the religion of humanity. But just paying
secular humanism lip service will not do any good. Our talk of
spiritual values must match our actions.
But spiritual values and atheists do not generally mix. One atheists
gave his views on this subject of discussing spiritual tools to live
by:
AK writes:
"What is spirit or spirituality? Without knowing what you mean by the
word, one can't know what you mean. Why study something for which you
not only have no evidence, but not even a definition?"
Yes, spiritual concepts are hard to define, just as the source of the
wind is hard to define. Since spiritual matters deal with the unseen
and the unknown, how can we define them perfectly? If we could do that
they would not be spiritual studies. You can't see why one person is
loving and kind and another person is a fiend of perennial shame, hate
and destruction. Nor can you see what made the hate monger change into
a kind and loving human. We can describe spiritual concepts and the
journey that made the change possible, but it is impossible to put our
finger on it all exactly. Spiritual growth is a journey that is a
never ending, an imperfect process in this life. But just as we can
see the effects of the wind, while being blind to its source; we can
most definitely see the difference in people that incorporate
spiritual values within their lives when compared to people that live
a life devoid of any spiritual values.
Their are many fields of spiritual studies. We can separate the
studies into two main fields; the corporeal and the meta-corporeal.
Some of these studies deal with energy fields, meditative states of
consciousness, out of body and near death accounts, psychic research,
etc. Most of my work is in the corporal realm. I leave the advanced
studies to those better qualified for it than myself. Britain and the
US both have centers for psychic research. Plenty of information is
out there if you are interested in studying it.
"No man is so wise that he may not easily err if he takes no other
counsel than his own. He that is taught only by himself has a fool for
a master." Ben Jonson
No one said we have to 'investigate it all,' but we do have to give it
some thought if we wish to be at peace. A Hindu sage once told me
"Just as water floes downhill without effort but requires outside
forces and energy to make it move uphill. So the human consciousness
falls to its lowest levels of the senses without effort and energies
to make our consciousness gravitate to more than our base desires." As
such without effort the defiance based atheists sinks deeper and
deeper into sickness and tragedy as time goes by.
The business of humanism is 'all our business' if we with to live life
at peace. This relationship of interdependent humanistic balance can
best be visualized in the 3 corners of a triangle which represents the
spiritual realm, other persons and ourselves At the top goes Higher
Power / God of Peace and God of Nature / Yahweh / Buddha / The
Dharma / Nature / Karma / Universe or whatever you choose as the
unseen force behind all. On the bottom right corner of the triangle
goes other people. On the left bottom corner of the triangle goes
yourself. Keeping this relationship in harmonious balance helps
develop compassion for others and humility within ourselves.
We learn to think about others and the spirit as well as our own needs
and we can then see we are all interdependent and not independent with
all. Once you see this balance you will realize that we all share the
same breath and no need to practice hatred or develop ill will towards
others. It is much better to develop compassion for others. For as we
develop compassion for others we develop peace within, just as it is a
law that when we develop hatred for others we develop hatred within.
No, egocentricity is not good for spiritual work and we need to be
open to others ideas and embrace them as nourishment for your growth
and sustenance for life - as no one person is god. As a freethinking
agnostic I AM FREE to look for truth wherever the road takes me. I
discriminate against no one. As such, I study with the Christians, the
Buddhists, the Jews, the Muslims, the Taoists and even find truth as I
study with the atheists.
For further discussion of related topics see:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=3D4.0
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=3D91.0
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=3D133.0
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=3D342.0
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
AA#2
.
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| User: "gorn" |
|
| Title: Re: I've heard a claim that atheism actually creates *more* moral responsibility than theism |
12 Apr 2007 11:16:55 PM |
|
|
On Apr 12, 9:38 am, "V" <v...@aol.com> wrote:
[snip]
Well, you've convinced me that a few people on the internet slammed
you with their anonymous newsgroup posts (with or without provocation
is unknown based on the provided context, so we'll ignore that
aspect). This says something about the nature of internet newsgroups.
It says absolutely nothing about the moral fiber of atheists. I
thought you consider yourself a philosopher. If so, your research
needs to go just a tad deeper than such tainted anecdote.
I suggest that for every example of rudeness that can be attributed to
an atheist, there are 10x as many examples that can be attributed to
theists. I base this hypothesis on the conjecture that with a large
enough sample size, the behavior of all human groups are fundamentally
the same, and there are 10x as many theists as atheists.
I propose that you should test this hypothesis in scientific fashion,
and if shown to be true, undertake the effort to remove the mote from
the theist's eye before approaching the splinter on the atheist's eye.
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: I've heard a claim that atheism actually creates *more* moral responsibility than theism |
13 Apr 2007 07:38:18 AM |
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On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 22:16:55 -0700, gorn wrote:
Well, you've convinced me that a few people on the internet slammed you
with their anonymous newsgroup posts
A number of us over here use our real names *and slammed V.
(with or without provocation is
unknown based on the provided context, so we'll ignore that aspect).
Of course it's presented sans context. Context is irrelevant to The Great
V. Only that he was offended matters...
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace
alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing
it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."
- H. L. Mencken
.
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: I've heard a claim that atheism actually creates *more* moralresponsibility than theism |
13 Apr 2007 02:23:08 AM |
|
|
V wrote:
(...) writes:
"Is there any data on correlations between levels of atheism and
levels
of morally unacceptable sexual behaviors like homosexual sex, sex
outside of marriage, sexual promiscuity (including scanty dress and
body showoffs), etc. I've heard a claim that atheism actually creates
*more* moral responsibility than theism. So, I'm curious as to what
the hard data says."
The atheist mind is clear, uncluttered and based on common sense and logic,
so there is a very good chance that atheism wins hands down,
but the figures you seek would be impossible to verify.
Whether one believes in any of the thousands of gods recorded or not is purely a
question of human mental activity - nothing else.
Some live in the mad world of make believe for a whole life time,
others manage to escape from it.
For a fine example of religion at it's worst, present day, go no farther than The
Middle East
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
V:
In theory yes. BUT I'd have to say this 'theory' is a pipe dream of
yours, just as Yahweh may be the pipe dream of the theists..
I've disused the topics of morals and ethics many time at
alt.atheism..let me share some of the replies from the 'moral
majority' of atheists there.
One time I brought up this subject of right speech at alt.atheism and
was responded to as such.
Robibnikoff wrote: "So. Fucking what...do you think I give a flying
***** what you think, dipshit...Not that it's any of YOUR fucking
business...Don't presume that you know what's best for me, you
deluded, motherfucking, cocksucking son of a *****." (condensed)
With my first few posts, I offered to discuss tools that the atheist,
agnostic or theist can use develop inner peace.
These are just a few of the response from alt.athyeim on the subjects
of compassion, simplicity, ethics, morals, mindfulness, reciprocity,
charity, accepting impermanence, gratitude etc.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kate wrote: "I've never been not at peace. What you offer makes me
physically ill. It's like a nasty man come round to tell little
kiddees he has candy for them if they touch his pee pee. You know,
most of the atheists I know are as good as children are at discerning
misrepresentation. You aren't trying to help anyone but your own
self. Go away, we have no interest in touching your pee pee."
John Baker wrote: "First of all, this is a newsgroup, not the
freaking public library. Keep it short and to the point. Second,
you're full of *****."
Christopher A. Lee wrote: "What the ***** has philosophy got to do
with your in-your-face psychopathy?"
Michael Gray wrote: "Stop posting your vile polemic deliberately
nasty, lying Christian? . Please go away. No-one is buying your
poisonous diatribe. Are you really this stupid, or just pretending?"
Christopher A. Lee wrote: "We know this deliberately nasty,
slandering liar is a Christian by his fruits...a liar as well as an
idiot...don't be so fucking stupid."
Christopher A. Lee wrote: "You wouldn't know "virtuous behaviour" if
it hit you over the head, whining hypocrite who needs to get the log
out of his own eye before accusing us of a projection of his own
deficiencies."
Christopher A. Lee wrote: "a few hundred lines of irrelevant *****
by a whining hypocrite who
doesn't practice what he preaches, deleted"
Robibnikoff wrote: "Shaddup, you *****."
Michael Gray wrote: "There ain't nothin' lamer than a jabriol
fuckwit"
Christopher A. Lee wrote: "Whi give a *****, in-your-face stuipid
moron?"
John Baker wrote: 'I'd almost feel sorry for him if he wasn't such
a disgusting piece of *****."
Robibnikoff wrote: "I hope that stupid fucker (V) doesn't think I
actually read all that dog ***** he posts."
Robibnikoff wrote: "....no one gives a ***** what you think."
Christopher A. Lee wrote: "So fucking what? Keep it to yourself and
nobody will know what an ***** you are."
Stoney wrote: Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to shove a
wooden cross up their arses and rotate at a high rate of speed. I
trust you'll be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I could send you an almost endless supply of such material to prove
the point that without spiritual values, the atheist is sunk. The
conundrum of the mind manacled, defiance based, spiritually sick
atheist is this. They need spiritual values to be at peace - yet their
own defiance blocks them from seeking and finding these values.
The atheist that only has a foundation of ego and hate will never find
peace. If any theist questioning their faith should wonder onto
alt.atheism, for instance, they could see this for themselves with
many spiritually sick example members and their projection of this
spiritual sickness and self hate onto others
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark K Bilbo wrote: "..you're an *****...a self-absorbed *****
who thinks everything is about him."
Mark K Bilbo wrote: "For a "peace" freak, you sure are a spiteful
little *****."
Panama Floyd wrote: "...this guy is funny. Why don't we wait a while
before we eat him? Maybe he'll poopie himself!."
John Baker wrote: "Oh, shut the ***** up, you self-righteous twit."
Robibnikoff wrote: "***** you, liar"
Robibnikoff wrote: "Blah, blah, blah... you boring sack of *****."
Michael Gray wrote: "You exhibit all the signs of full clinical
sociopathy, if not actual psychopathy. You need professional help, but
won't take it, as that would entail admitting that the Fuckups that
are always happening to you are YOUR fault."
Michael Gray wrote: "If you insist upon continuing to strut your
massive ego and miniscule education in alt.atheism, we'll use you for
target practice, until we get bored with your repetitious long-winded
empty-headed *****-frosted ignorance."
Michael Gray wrote: "What do you expect from a lying sack of *****?"
Raven1 wrote: "God, will you get over that fucking ego of yours
already?"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All atheists are not like this. Some spiritual based atheist far
surpass theists in compassion and inner peace. The troubling thing at
alt.atheism is no one speaks out against such illness and this IS
being promoted as atheistic view. I wrote to the president of American
Atheists, I wrote to the UK Atheists as well s a Secular Humanist
Foundation and Sam Harris about this very topic...none had the
courtesy to respond.
I try to offer some advice of right speech, but atheists in general
are a defiant lot and don't like advice unless it stems from their own
ego. There are also too many sick individuals to counsel and it would
be hard to do even if a dozen took on the job, let alone one person.
Atheists are their own worse enemy when it comes to promoting their
cause and trampling over organized religion. Just as the bible is a
major force with theists leaving religion, the spiritually sick, mind
manacled, defiance based atheist is the best reason that theists
return to their religion. Such wavering theists quickly come to
realize that without a foundation spirituality the atheist is sunk and
rapidly head back to their church, temple or fellowship to get away
from such people.
I brought up the topic of developing a 'church of sorts' or atheist
fellowship to lend guidance and support for right living and
reinforcing the ethics morals and the ideals of atheists and secular
humanism.
I'll leave you with just a few more quotes from Panama Floyd as he
writes on the subject of developing human empathy and compassion to
support moral, ethical and right living through such a fellowship:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Panama Floyd wrote: "The only thing I need to "support moral,
ethical and right living" is simple human empathy and compassion. That
anyone would need anything else is a mystery to me. Perhaps I'm just a
better person than they are."
Panama Floyd wrote: "Then don't whine like a ***** when your butt
gets fucked,"
Panama Floyd wrote:: "...Take it (bible) and shove it up that smelly
little ***** you're using for a *****."
Panama Floyd wrote: "You're not smart enough, or brave enough to be
an atheist. Keep your idiotic dead-jew-on-a-stick, buttsuck. Fear of
it is probably the only thing keeping you from having sex with your
siblings."
Panama Floyd wrote: "Shaddap, *****. If I want your opinion, I'll
give you one."
Panama Floyd wrote:: "Go ***** yourself, Christian...Were I a violent
man, I'd advocate you all being rounded up and jailed, to keep you
from ruining other lives."
Panama Floyd wrote: "Go ***** yourself, shitstain. You come in here
and insult people-and then whine about the reception you get? *****, I
wish it caused you physical pain to be so ruthlessly stupid."
Panama Floyd wrote: "***** ya brainless fucking twat!"
Panama Floyd wrote: "***** Jesus. Your dead-jew-on-a-stick probably
never existed, and if he did, he was man-not a god. I don't take
"commands" from an illiterate, superstitious Bronze Age peasant.'
Panama Floyd: wrote: "What are *you* doing back here, you dumb *****-
assed punk? Ways of disposing with the human garbage called
"missionaries" is very definately on-topic."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Atheists say they are truth based and subscribe to secular humanism,
but this could not be further from truth to what actually is. Atheists
have no God on their backs to admonish them and cause them grief or
fear. But, even though they are free from religion and God, the
atheists as a group (the spiritually sick atheists that is, as the
spiritually well atheist can surpass most theists in 'real' goodness)
are some of the most miserable, sad specimens of humanity I have ever
come across...a really a sad testimony to atheism.
This is the beauty of being a 'true freethinker' versus being a mind
manacled, defiant based atheist or a theist suffering from cognitive
dissonance. True freethinkers can think for themselves. As such, when
we get a toolbox we can decide which tools to use for the job. Some
tools are used a lot, other tools are left alone for the time being,
and still others are trashed when we see they are broken and useless.
Again, a freethinker is 'free to decide' how they wish to proceed. No,
egocentricity is not good for spiritual work and we need to be open to
others ideas and embrace them as nourishment for your growth and
sustenance for life - as no one person is god.
Traditional freethinkers do not accept me as one of their group, since
I draw from spiritual paths as well as wordily areas to garner wisdom
to live at peace. Traditional freethinkers do not like anything that
comes from religion. Kind of a misnomer isn't it...I'm a
freethinker...but I must block out everything that comes from religion
and spiritual traditions and whatever other prejudice I wish to inject
into the equation?
Psychologist William James once said, "A great many people believe
they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."
When we limit prejudice we can open our minds to truth and peace. And
realize the truth of Blake's words that "all deities reside within the
human breast." If it is religion that an atheists need to adopt, they
only have to look as far as the religion of humanity. But just paying
secular humanism lip service will not do any good. Our talk of
spiritual values must match our actions.
But spiritual values and atheists do not generally mix. One atheists
gave his views on this subject of discussing spiritual tools to live
by:
AK writes:
"What is spirit or spirituality? Without knowing what you mean by the
word, one can't know what you mean. Why study something for which you
not only have no evidence, but not even a definition?"
Yes, spiritual concepts are hard to define, just as the source of the
wind is hard to define. Since spiritual matters deal with the unseen
and the unknown, how can we define them perfectly? If we could do that
they would not be spiritual studies. You can't see why one person is
loving and kind and another person is a fiend of perennial shame, hate
and destruction. Nor can you see what made the hate monger change into
a kind and loving human. We can describe spiritual concepts and the
journey that made the change possible, but it is impossible to put our
finger on it all exactly. Spiritual growth is a journey that is a
never ending, an imperfect process in this life. But just as we can
see the effects of the wind, while being blind to its source; we can
most definitely see the difference in people that incorporate
spiritual values within their lives when compared to people that live
a life devoid of any spiritual values.
Their are many fields of spiritual studies. We can separate the
studies into two main fields; the corporeal and the meta-corporeal.
Some of these studies deal with energy fields, meditative states of
consciousness, out of body and near death accounts, psychic research,
etc. Most of my work is in the corporal realm. I leave the advanced
studies to those better qualified for it than myself. Britain and the
US both have centers for psychic research. Plenty of information is
out there if you are interested in studying it.
"No man is so wise that he may not easily err if he takes no other
counsel than his own. He that is taught only by himself has a fool for
a master." Ben Jonson
No one said we have to 'investigate it all,' but we do have to give it
some thought if we wish to be at peace. A Hindu sage once told me
"Just as water floes downhill without effort but requires outside
forces and energy to make it move uphill. So the human consciousness
falls to its lowest levels of the senses without effort and energies
to make our consciousness gravitate to more than our base desires." As
such without effort the defiance based atheists sinks deeper and
deeper into sickness and tragedy as time goes by.
The business of humanism is 'all our business' if we with to live life
at peace. This relationship of interdependent humanistic balance can
best be visualized in the 3 corners of a triangle which represents the
spiritual realm, other persons and ourselves At the top goes Higher
Power / God of Peace and God of Nature / Yahweh / Buddha / The
Dharma / Nature / Karma / Universe or whatever you choose as the
unseen force behind all. On the bottom right corner of the triangle
goes other people. On the left bottom corner of the triangle goes
yourself. Keeping this relationship in harmonious balance helps
develop compassion for others and humility within ourselves.
We learn to think about others and the spirit as well as our own needs
and we can then see we are all interdependent and not independent with
all. Once you see this balance you will realize that we all share the
same breath and no need to practice hatred or develop ill will towards
others. It is much better to develop compassion for others. For as we
develop compassion for others we develop peace within, just as it is a
law that when we develop hatred for others we develop hatred within.
No, egocentricity is not good for spiritual work and we need to be
open to others ideas and embrace them as nourishment for your growth
and sustenance for life - as no one person is god. As a freethinking
agnostic I AM FREE to look for truth wherever the road takes me. I
discriminate against no one. As such, I study with the Christians, the
Buddhists, the Jews, the Muslims, the Taoists and even find truth as I
study with the atheists.
For further discussion of related topics see:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=4.0
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=91.0
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=133.0
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=342.0
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
AA#2
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