| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Budikka" |
| Date: |
04 Jan 2004 12:29:24 AM |
| Object: |
Jabriol Lies Series #7 |
Antonio Santana, posting under the pseudonym "Jabriol" (this time as
jabriol (jabriol@cymech.net)) has begun endless threads attempting to
show problems with the Theory of Evolution. He has consistently
failed in this endeavor. When he realizes this, he quietly abandons
the thread and starts another one on a slightly different topic, with
the same cluelessness in play. One of these was begun on December
2nd, 2003 under the subject "TOBS: From nothing?", wildly cross-posted
to alt.religion.jehovahs-witn, sci.astro.amateur,
alt.talk.creationism, sci.anthropology.paleo, and alt.atheism.
"TOBS" is itself a lie, since it stands for "talk.origins banned
subject", and neither Jabriol nor his topics are banned from
talk.origins. What is banned is his obsessive-compulsive
crossposting, since talk.origins does not permit more than four
cross-posts for a thread. That very topic was touched on in this
thread: http://tinyurl.com/39ktj in April 2001, proving Jabriol is a
liar.
In the more recent thread, he blathers: "Can experts now explain the
origin of the universe? Many scientists, uncomfortable with the idea
that the universe was created by a higher intelligence,"
Clueless opinion noted.
He continues: "speculate that by some mechanism it created itself out
of nothing. Does that sound reasonable to you?"
Since, once again, he presents not a shred of evidence against it, and
since, once again, all he can offer is argument from incredulity as
usual, Jabriol this time finds himself in the ironical postion of
coming from nothing into the position he tries to take! If he cannot
see the irony of that, he's a moron. Besides, if there was literally
nothing, then what, exactly, was there that would have prevented the
universe arising? Once again Jabriol, unable to offer a shred of
refutation for the scientific position, wants to whine and beg like
Oliver Twist asking for more.
The universe balances out at zero energy - the negative energy of
gravity counterbalances the postive energy of the universe itself (as
Alan Guth describes on pages 9-12 of his book, "The Inflationary
Universe" (Perseus Books, 1997)), so the universe is actually nothing.
Is Jabriol's position, then, that you cannot get nothing from
nothing? Sub-atomic particles pop into and out of existence all the
time. Stephen Hawking used this phenomenon to describe how a black
hole could, over time, "evaporate". Who is to say, at this point,
that the universe did not originate in a similar fashion?
(http://www.usd.edu/phys/courses/phys300/gallery/clark/hawking.html)
(http://physics.syr.edu/research/fundamental_theory/Stringtheory/stringpage.html)
Having said that, there is no solid agreement on how the universe came
to be because there is not enough evidence to make the call yet.
There are theories based on what evidence is available and based on
the physics we know, but until we get some more information, the jury
is out.
It may have come from nothing, it may have always been here, bouncing
back and forth from big bang to big crunch, or it may have sprouted
from a prior universe which itself sprouted from a prior universe back
to infinity.
Jabriol blabbers: "Such speculations usually involve some variation of
a theory (inflationary universe model) conceived in 1979 by physicist
Alan Guth."
Lie. It was 1981.
(http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_inflation)
Jabriol jabbers; "Yet, more recently, Dr. Guth admitted that his
theory "does not explain how the universe arose from nothing.""
Jabriol is a moron. Guth's inflationary model was not intended to
explain how the universe originally arose, but how it came to be as it
is today.
Jabriol blathers: "Dr. Andrei Linde was more explicit in a Scientific
American article..."
Curious then, that a search for his name at the www.sciam site
unearthed nothing, isn't it?
Jabriol drools: ""Explaining this initial singularity?where and when
it all began?still remains the most
intractable problem of modern cosmology.""
Once more he completely abandons all efforts to reference his
claptrap. Until and unless, let's just add it to his huge and
ever-expanding list of lies (talk about inflation!).
Jabriol proposes: "If experts cannot really explain either the origin
or the early development of our universe, should we not look elsewhere
for an explanation?"
He's right - we should not, because no one who has a functional brain
can actually see how substituting a big bearded giant in the sky,
whose origin has absolutely no explanation whatsoever, would improve
scientific understanding of the origin of the universe. If the
universe cannot have arisen from nothing, then neither can any god.
If some god can have always been here, then so, too, can the universe
in some form or another. Putting a magic giant in the sky into the
equation solves nothing but Jabriol's own desperate and childish need
for a daddy figure in his life.
Jabriol whines: "The evidence includes the precise measurements of
four fundamental forces that are responsible for all properties and
changes affecting matter.
Well unless jabriol can prove that this is and ever has been the
*only* universe, he isn't in a position to make any comment on the
state of forces within it. First of all, if there are infinite
universes, there is bound to be at least one in which humans could
arise, and in any universe where they do arise, there are bound to be
complete morons like Jabriol who post argument from incredulity in
Internet news groups.
Budikka
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| User: "Chain Smoker" |
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| Title: Re: Jabriol Lies Series #7 |
04 Jan 2004 07:42:00 AM |
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"Budikka" <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:e1e30450.0401032229.78be1487@posting.google.com...
Antonio Santana, posting under the pseudonym "Jabriol" (this time as
jabriol (jabriol@cymech.net)) has begun endless threads attempting to
show problems with the Theory of Evolution.
I never really notice this Jabriol character. Your postings, on the other
hand, paint a picture of your obsession with him. I am serious here, I
almost cannot see your handle without instantly associating it with his, as
you post about him so often.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004
.
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| User: "Budikka" |
|
| Title: Re: Jabriol Lies Series #7 |
04 Jan 2004 12:31:43 PM |
|
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"Chain Smoker" <joe@noname.com> wrote in message news:<bt9574$dl2$03$1@news.t-online.com>...
I never really notice this Jabriol character. Your postings, on the other
hand, paint a picture of your obsession with him. I am serious here, I
almost cannot see your handle without instantly associating it with his, as
you post about him so often.
You would rather have people free to post lies without them ever being
challenged?
Clearly the message got through to you, because if I hadn't posted so
often, it would never have registered with you what a liar he is.
Thanks for confirming that my system is working.
Jabriol is not the only one I address. I also deal with Kent Hovind's
supporters such as Jason Gastrich and Roadrunner, and others like John
Boatwright, AngelicusRex, etc. as they deserve it.
Jabriol happens to have Usenet diarrhea, so he does get more attention
because he posts more. Also he is the only one who has directed his
lies specifically at me through a series of postings regarding
supposed holes in the Theory of Evolution.
Perhaps it would be wise of you to get the big picture before you try
to proclaim how many words it paints?
Budikka
.
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| User: "Chain Smoker" |
|
| Title: Re: Jabriol Lies Series #7 |
04 Jan 2004 03:57:49 PM |
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"Budikka" <budikka1@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:e1e30450.0401041031.1f602b44@posting.google.com...
"Chain Smoker" <joe@noname.com> wrote in message
news:<bt9574$dl2$03$1@news.t-online.com>...
I never really notice this Jabriol character. Your postings, on the
other
hand, paint a picture of your obsession with him. I am serious here, I
almost cannot see your handle without instantly associating it with his,
as
you post about him so often.
You would rather have people free to post lies without them ever being
challenged?
You can challenge them on it to an extent, but you have become Jabriol's
unpaid publicist.
Clearly the message got through to you, because if I hadn't posted so
often, it would never have registered with you what a liar he is.
Thanks for confirming that my system is working.
I have confirmed no such thing. I read the title Jabriol Lies Series the
same way I read the title Sex, Lies, and Videotape. All I know about
Jabriol Lies Series is that Budikka authored it. Jabriol is a non entity to
me, and the "lies" portion of the title associate in my mind with the
author, Budikka, not with his obsession, Jabriol.
Jabriol is not the only one I address. I also deal with Kent Hovind's
supporters such as Jason Gastrich and Roadrunner, and others like John
Boatwright, AngelicusRex, etc. as they deserve it.
Jabriol happens to have Usenet diarrhea, so he does get more attention
because he posts more. Also he is the only one who has directed his
lies specifically at me through a series of postings regarding
supposed holes in the Theory of Evolution.
Are you the author of the Theory of Evolution? If not, how do you see his
attacks on the TOE as being specifically aimed at you? Unless the attacks
are specifically aimed at you, the TOE being beside the point, in which case
one wonders why you mention the TOE in this context at all.
Perhaps it would be wise of you to get the big picture before you try
to proclaim how many words it paints?
I did. I stand on my initial statement, that you are obsessed with this
Jabriol character. Perhaps he is also obsessed with you. Why don't you
exchange email addresses and start a relationship together.
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004
.
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| User: "Budikka" |
|
| Title: Re: Jabriol Lies Series #7 |
05 Jan 2004 03:02:01 AM |
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"Chain Smoker" <joe@noname.com> wrote in message news:<bta28p$2km$00$1@news.t-online.com>...
You would rather have people free to post lies without them ever being
challenged?
You can challenge them on it to an extent, but you have become Jabriol's
unpaid publicist.
You're entitled to your opinion, no matter how misguided it may be.
Clearly the message got through to you, because if I hadn't posted so
often, it would never have registered with you what a liar he is.
Thanks for confirming that my system is working.
I have confirmed no such thing.
You're entitled to your opinion, no matter how misguided it may be.
Jabriol is a non entity to me
Then why even post on the topic?
Are you the author of the Theory of Evolution? If not, how do you see his
attacks on the TOE as being specifically aimed at you?
Again, you do not see the big picture. This is an issue of yours, not of mine.
Unless the attacks
are specifically aimed at you, the TOE being beside the point, in which case
one wonders why you mention the TOE in this context at all.
Again, you do not see the big picture. This is an issue of yours, not of mine.
Perhaps it would be wise of you to get the big picture before you try
to proclaim how many words it paints?
I did.
Sure you did. That's why you're so uninformed on it.
I stand on my initial statement,
That's about what it's fit for. Wipe your feet on it while you're there.
that you are obsessed with this Jabriol character.
You're entitled to your opinion, no matter how misguided it may be.
Perhaps he is also obsessed with you. Why don't you
exchange email addresses and start a relationship together.
When I care about your opinion, I'll ask for it.
Budikka
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