James Randi speaks



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "|-|erc"
Date: 30 Dec 2003 06:44:56 AM
Object: James Randi speaks
Barry, you must recognize that the million-dollar challenge is probably the single most-feared
element in the belief system these people have constructed. They can't respond to it, because they
know they can't perform as they fantasize they can. This delusion is so cherished, so important to
them, that they will invent, distort, and lie in order to avoid facing the truth. Indeed, truth is
their greatest enemy, and it is brought up to them by the JREF challenge, every day.
Let me knock this idiot off his block by taking his million!
Herc
--
<^> <(·¿·)> <^> ---- <^> <(·¿·)> <^> 2004 <^> <(·¿·)> <^> --- <^> <(·¿·)> <^>
Chat at www.chatty.net THE NEW YEARS ONLINE PARTY!!
<^> <(·¿·)> <^> ---- <^> <(·¿·)> <^> 2004 <^> <(·¿·)> <^> --- <^> <(·¿·)> <^>
.

User: "DrPostman"

Title: Re: James Randi speaks 04 Jan 2004 01:14:30 AM
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 01:20:10 GMT, Peter Bowditch
<myfirstname@ratbags.com> wrote:

"|-|erc" <trymyform@wwwadamskingdom.com> wrote:

thats you BOW invite Adam, DITCH ignore the application
this is me GRAHAM you better not kill the groom COOPER computer


??????

answer this :

why is the skeptics run by 3 dicks?
Randi, Willy, Richard


The Australian Skeptics can do even better. There are three people
named "Richard" on the committee. To impress people from other slang
environments, there are also two people called "Peter".

By the way, one of the founders of Australian Skeptics is named
"Adams". That must make him more powerful than a singleton Adam (or
even a Townsville Adam). Need I mention that the other founder is
named *****?

What? No Bruces?
(I couldn't resist)
--
Dr.Postman USPS, MBMC, BsD; "Disgruntled, But Unarmed"
Member,Board of Directors of afa-b, SKEP-TI-CULT® member #15-51506-253.
You can email me at: TuriFake(at)hotmail.com
"Shake it like a polaroid picture."
- Andre 3000 of Outkast
.
User: "Matthew Kriebel"

Title: Re: James Randi speaks 04 Jan 2004 09:50:35 AM
In article <n3ffvvorcslnp64b05p7smtn0n9uj6tkfm@4ax.com>,
DrPostman <Look@mysig.foremail> wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 01:20:10 GMT, Peter Bowditch
<myfirstname@ratbags.com> wrote:

"|-|erc" <trymyform@wwwadamskingdom.com> wrote:

thats you BOW invite Adam, DITCH ignore the application
this is me GRAHAM you better not kill the groom COOPER computer


??????

answer this :

why is the skeptics run by 3 dicks?
Randi, Willy, Richard


The Australian Skeptics can do even better. There are three people
named "Richard" on the committee. To impress people from other slang
environments, there are also two people called "Peter".

By the way, one of the founders of Australian Skeptics is named
"Adams". That must make him more powerful than a singleton Adam (or
even a Townsville Adam). Need I mention that the other founder is
named *****?



What? No Bruces?


(I couldn't resist)

Dang! you beat me to it.
.


User: "|-|erc"

Title: Re: James Randi speaks 03 Jan 2004 04:03:54 PM

answer this :

why is the skeptics run by 3 dicks?
Randi, Willy, Richard

I mean 3 Dicks and a Randi.
***** Smith, B Williams, Richard Gordon, J Randi.
Again, OVER 100,000 witnesses to paranormal in Townsville Australia.
Do you copy?
Herc
.

User: "Carol Lee Smith"

Title: Re: James Randi speaks 03 Jan 2004 08:50:25 AM
On Sat, 3 Jan 2004, |-|erc wrote:

1 he ignores international applications

No he doesn't. There are procedures to follow.

yes he does, I swore in front of a FP on my application
mailed it, 3 weeks later they stopped replying to emails.

Please post the letter/application here so we can compare it with Randi
columns in which he describes the kooky communications he receives.
Thanks.
ps: If you don't, we will assume you are just being silly.
.
User: "Alex"

Title: Re: James Randi speaks 03 Jan 2004 10:10:05 AM
On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 08:50:25 -0600, Carol Lee Smith <human@csd.uwm.edu>
wrote:

ps: If you don't, we will assume you are just being silly.

"Silly", that's a charitable way of putting it...
.
User: "Carol Lee Smith"

Title: Re: James Randi speaks 03 Jan 2004 10:22:40 AM
On Sat, 3 Jan 2004, Alex wrote:

On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 08:50:25 -0600, Carol Lee Smith <human@csd.uwm.edu>
wrote:

ps: If you don't, we will assume you are just being silly.

"Silly", that's a charitable way of putting it...

He might want to check this out:
http://www.randi.org/jref/tamii.html
.

User: "Carol Lee Smith"

Title: Amazing Meeting 2 03 Jan 2004 10:21:33 AM
http://www.randi.org/jref/tamii.html
Penn & Teller are appearing.
.
User: "Dunk"

Title: Re: Amazing Meeting 2 03 Jan 2004 07:56:28 PM
On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 16:21:33 +0000 (UTC), Carol Lee Smith
<human@csd.uwm.edu> wrote:

http://www.randi.org/jref/tamii.html

Penn & Teller are appearing.

How about Hodgkin and Huxley? That would be amazing.
dunk
.
User: "r norman"

Title: Re: Amazing Meeting 2 03 Jan 2004 09:16:19 PM
On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 01:56:28 +0000 (UTC),

(Dunk) wrote:

On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 16:21:33 +0000 (UTC), Carol Lee Smith
<human@csd.uwm.edu> wrote:

http://www.randi.org/jref/tamii.html

Penn & Teller are appearing.


How about Hodgkin and Huxley? That would be amazing.
dunk

Sorry, I don't get it. What does the action potential have to do with
anything, here? Or is the game just to pull up a pair of names like
Batman and Robin or Simon and Schuster or ...?
.





User: "Alex"

Title: Re: James Randi speaks 02 Jan 2004 09:43:37 PM
On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 09:52:58 +1000, "|-|erc"
<trymyform@wwwadamskingdom.com> wrote:

1 he ignores international applications

I don't believe he does. *But* if you are from another country, either
you have to pony up the cash for Randi to travel to you or you must
fly to Florida for the challenge.
.
User: "Mike Painter"

Title: Re: James Randi speaks 03 Jan 2004 12:49:42 AM
"Alex" <a@b.c> wrote in message
news:lgecvvkkokpq4uqbd76k9g4lb75pe84fui@4ax.com...

On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 09:52:58 +1000, "|-|erc"
<trymyform@wwwadamskingdom.com> wrote:

1 he ignores international applications


I don't believe he does. *But* if you are from another country, either
you have to pony up the cash for Randi to travel to you or you must
fly to Florida for the challenge.

He does not ignore applications from anywhere and will try to arrange a
preliminary test in the area.
You pass the preliminary and then do the real one.
There is a martial arts group trying now and I think he did a Russian girl
who could read while blindfolded. She didn't pass when it was his blindfold.
.


User: "Johnny Bravo"

Title: Re: James Randi speaks 30 Dec 2003 07:03:12 PM
On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 09:57:26 +1000, "|-|erc"
<trymyform@wwwadamskingdom.com> wrote:

CLAIM "That handles of replies to me can be guessed by what they wrote"

You wrote : > No embellishments, no refs to anything previous

Anyone can guess your alias by that : BackToNormal

SEE?

No need for a booth; here you go.
The other person in the room with me has a reply for you.
"You're nuts."
Was it:
1) Shannon
2) Jessica
3) Bunny
4) Diane
5) Bonnie
6) Andrew
7) David
8) Mike
9) Bill
10) Karl
Feel free to demonstrate your talent; if you actually have one.
--
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability
of the human mind to correlate all its contents." - H.P. Lovecraft
.

User: ""

Title: Re: James Randi speaks 30 Dec 2003 06:57:29 PM
|-|erc <trymyform@wwwadamskingdom.com> wrote:

"BackToNormal" <mungymungy@sexxtra.cop.nnz> wrote in

OKAY, in English which people can understand, what exactly is your
claim?

No embellishments, no refs to anything previous.



CLAIM "That handles of replies to me can be guessed by what they wrote"

You wrote : > No embellishments, no refs to anything previous

Anyone can guess your alias by that : BackToNormal

SEE?

Very good. But there are TWO parts to the test. The second part is for
you to show you can guess my e-mail addy by sending me a message.
Waiting.
Also, try guessing what my new alias is?
Also, what's my first name?
Incidentally, I see part of your url is -- wait for it -- adamski. Fancy
that, ADAMSKI! Your posts indicate you are related to the late George,
the loon that Time called something like the fruitcake from California.
ronh
--
"People do not make decisions on facts, rather,
how they feel about the facts" Robert Consedine
.

User: "Bob Dog"

Title: Re: James Randi speaks 03 Jan 2004 01:53:13 AM
John Griffin <thathillbilly@yahooie.com> wrote in message news:<Xns94613B905E324thathillbillyyahooco@130.133.1.4>...

"|-|erc" <trymyform@wwwadamskingdom.com> wrote:

Let me knock this idiot off his block by taking his
million!


Give it up, chowderhead. The world stupidity record, the only
thing you could possibly hope to "win," is out of your reach.
You're destined for mediocrity even at that.

Only one person with a trick ever challenged Randi on
Randi's terms set out for him, and the guy told Randi
afterward how he did it. (That was the guy who could
"read" vinyl records and say what the music was. His
trick was remembering the record company codes engraved
on the vinyl.)
It's no surprise that the only person who ever put up
and shut Randi up when challenged wouldn't take the
money. |J|erk hasn't the balls to put Randi's money
where his mouth is.
Bob Dog
.
User: "Mike Painter"

Title: Re: James Randi speaks 03 Jan 2004 01:28:18 PM
"Bob Dog" <bg12345@apexmail.com> wrote in message
news:4fa573de.0401022353.1831a5f9@posting.google.com...

John Griffin <thathillbilly@yahooie.com> wrote in message

news:<Xns94613B905E324thathillbillyyahooco@130.133.1.4>...

"|-|erc" <trymyform@wwwadamskingdom.com> wrote:

Let me knock this idiot off his block by taking his
million!


Give it up, chowderhead. The world stupidity record, the only
thing you could possibly hope to "win," is out of your reach.
You're destined for mediocrity even at that.


Only one person with a trick ever challenged Randi on
Randi's terms set out for him, and the guy told Randi
afterward how he did it. (That was the guy who could
"read" vinyl records and say what the music was. His
trick was remembering the record company codes engraved
on the vinyl.)

It's no surprise that the only person who ever put up
and shut Randi up when challenged wouldn't take the
money. |J|erk hasn't the balls to put Randi's money
where his mouth is.

I/anybody could have beat him on a technicality because of something he
wrote in his last column.
He talked about there being no flow of energy between people. (He may not
have mentioned the whole delusion)
Test:
Randi sits in a chair on a day with very low humidity.
The chair is on a nice wool rug.
I shuffle up to Randi with my magic metal (a key).
A camera is focused on the end of that magic metal.
As the magic metal nears Randi's hand the camera *will* record the flow of
energy and Randi will believe it!
I was just going to ask for 10%
.
User: "Number1Fred"

Title: Re: James Randi speaks 03 Jan 2004 06:06:57 PM
"Mike Painter" <mdotpainter@att.net> wrote in message
news:mJEJb.590128$0v4.23360460@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...


"Bob Dog" <bg12345@apexmail.com> wrote in message
news:4fa573de.0401022353.1831a5f9@posting.google.com...

John Griffin <thathillbilly@yahooie.com> wrote in message

news:<Xns94613B905E324thathillbillyyahooco@130.133.1.4>...

"|-|erc" <trymyform@wwwadamskingdom.com> wrote:

Let me knock this idiot off his block by taking his
million!


Give it up, chowderhead. The world stupidity record, the only
thing you could possibly hope to "win," is out of your reach.
You're destined for mediocrity even at that.


Only one person with a trick ever challenged Randi on
Randi's terms set out for him, and the guy told Randi
afterward how he did it. (That was the guy who could
"read" vinyl records and say what the music was. His
trick was remembering the record company codes engraved
on the vinyl.)

It's no surprise that the only person who ever put up
and shut Randi up when challenged wouldn't take the
money. |J|erk hasn't the balls to put Randi's money
where his mouth is.

I/anybody could have beat him on a technicality because of something he
wrote in his last column.
He talked about there being no flow of energy between people. (He may not
have mentioned the whole delusion)

Test:
Randi sits in a chair on a day with very low humidity.
The chair is on a nice wool rug.
I shuffle up to Randi with my magic metal (a key).
A camera is focused on the end of that magic metal.
As the magic metal nears Randi's hand the camera *will* record the flow of
energy and Randi will believe it!
I was just going to ask for 10%

Not really, because he's not required to pay off on a nonparanormal event
(such as static electricity) even if one contradicts one of his statements.
Zzzzzaaap!
A couple of nitwits in the metal detecting community decided that since he
was willing to test Long-range locators (the kind that can find precious
metals from a great distance and are often just fancy dowsing rigs), that he
would be required to pay off on ground penetrating radar. They were wrong.
.


User: "Jon Haugsand"

Title: Re: The vinyl record trick (was: Re: James Randi speaks) 03 Jan 2004 02:22:07 AM
* Bob Dog

Only one person with a trick ever challenged Randi on
Randi's terms set out for him, and the guy told Randi
afterward how he did it. (That was the guy who could
"read" vinyl records and say what the music was. His
trick was remembering the record company codes engraved
on the vinyl.)

This is, in any case, amazing. Has this really been testet all over,
or is this guy using additional tricks like any illusionist does?
I also wonder if James Randi had his heart miss a few heart beats
before the trick was disclosed...
--
Jon Haugsand
Dept. of Informatics, Univ. of Oslo, Norway, mailto:jonhaug@ifi.uio.no
http://www.ifi.uio.no/~jonhaug/, Phone: +47 22 95 21 52
.
User: "Happy Dog"

Title: Re: The vinyl record trick (was: Re: James Randi speaks) 03 Jan 2004 03:58:40 AM
"Jon Haugsand" <jonhaug@ifi.uio.no> wrote in message
news:dmekuhxx00.fsf_-_@viisi.ifi.uio.no...

* Bob Dog

Only one person with a trick ever challenged Randi on
Randi's terms set out for him, and the guy told Randi
afterward how he did it. (That was the guy who could
"read" vinyl records and say what the music was. His
trick was remembering the record company codes engraved
on the vinyl.)


This is, in any case, amazing. Has this really been testet all over,
or is this guy using additional tricks like any illusionist does?

I also wonder if James Randi had his heart miss a few heart beats
before the trick was disclosed...

I don't think that this was ever a Challenge. I've heard (and actually
seen) this talent demonstrated. I'll try to get the details.
le moo
.
User: "Matthew Kriebel"

Title: Re: The vinyl record trick (was: Re: James Randi speaks) 03 Jan 2004 10:45:01 AM
In article <inwJb.19417$Vl6.3584199@news20.bellglobal.com>,
"Happy Dog" <happydog@sympatico.ca> wrote:

"Jon Haugsand" <jonhaug@ifi.uio.no> wrote in message
news:dmekuhxx00.fsf_-_@viisi.ifi.uio.no...

* Bob Dog

Only one person with a trick ever challenged Randi on
Randi's terms set out for him, and the guy told Randi
afterward how he did it. (That was the guy who could
"read" vinyl records and say what the music was. His
trick was remembering the record company codes engraved
on the vinyl.)


This is, in any case, amazing. Has this really been testet all over,
or is this guy using additional tricks like any illusionist does?

I also wonder if James Randi had his heart miss a few heart beats
before the trick was disclosed...


I don't think that this was ever a Challenge. I've heard (and actually
seen) this talent demonstrated. I'll try to get the details.

It was never part of the formal challenge, a magazine merely thought
Randi would be the best person to test such a claim.
The guy's name was Arthur Lintgen.
http://www.totse.com/en/fringe/fringe_science/record.html
It was an impressive skill, but not a paranormal ability.
.


User: "Ed Rhodes"

Title: Re: The vinyl record trick (was: Re: James Randi speaks) 03 Jan 2004 06:57:10 AM
"Jon Haugsand" <jonhaug@ifi.uio.no> wrote in message
news:dmekuhxx00.fsf_-_@viisi.ifi.uio.no...

* Bob Dog

Only one person with a trick ever challenged Randi on
Randi's terms set out for him, and the guy told Randi
afterward how he did it. (That was the guy who could
"read" vinyl records and say what the music was. His
trick was remembering the record company codes engraved
on the vinyl.)


This is, in any case, amazing. Has this really been testet all over,
or is this guy using additional tricks like any illusionist does?

I also wonder if James Randi had his heart miss a few heart beats
before the trick was disclosed...

I met Randi at Lou Tannen's around this time and he mentioned the "record
reading" guy. He said at the time that he had no idea how the guy did it and
was actually considering handing over the money when the guy fessed up that
he'd been "reading" the grooves.
.
User: "Robert Matthews"

Title: Re: The vinyl record trick (was: Re: James Randi speaks) 04 Jan 2004 04:17:37 PM
In article <G_yJb.11521$qS3.11424@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>,
"Ed Rhodes" <edward.j.rhodes@verizon.net> wrote:

"Jon Haugsand" <jonhaug@ifi.uio.no> wrote in message
news:dmekuhxx00.fsf_-_@viisi.ifi.uio.no...

* Bob Dog

Only one person with a trick ever challenged Randi on
Randi's terms set out for him, and the guy told Randi
afterward how he did it. (That was the guy who could
"read" vinyl records and say what the music was. His
trick was remembering the record company codes engraved
on the vinyl.)


This is, in any case, amazing. Has this really been testet all over,
or is this guy using additional tricks like any illusionist does?

I also wonder if James Randi had his heart miss a few heart beats
before the trick was disclosed...


I met Randi at Lou Tannen's around this time and he mentioned the "record
reading" guy. He said at the time that he had no idea how the guy did it and
was actually considering handing over the money when the guy fessed up that
he'd been "reading" the grooves.

Well, he apparently didn't fess up to anything; he said all along
that that was how he did it. Here's a piece I saved off Usenet from
years ago, and I don't know its provenance, except that it appears to be
from Discover magazine.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
A Record Claim.
There it was, printed in the New York Times, and an obvious candidate for
scrutiny by Skeptical Eye. The story was about a Pennsylvania doctor
named Arthur Lintgen, who could look at a phonograph record with its
label covered and, from the pattern of grooves, correctly identify the
recording. In some instances, he could even name the conductor. It was
obviously a case for James Randi, DISCOVER's favorite investigator of
psychics and other charlatans.
Randi was happy to oblige. "I thought the doctor's claims were quite
far-fetched," he says. "I called Lntgen and asked if he would mind
taking a test identifying some of MY records." Lintgen agreed, but
explained that he preferred fully orchestrated classical music from
Beethoven's time forward, and nothing as avant garde as electronic
music. Randi agreed to Lintgen's conditions and arranged to meet him in
two hours.
Dashing off to a record store, Randi bought the following recordings:
Beethoven's Sixth; Ravel's "Bolero"; Holst's "The Planets";
Tchaikovsky's "1812 Overture"; Mozart's 40th and 41st symphonies; and
two versions of Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring." In addition, as controls
for his planned scientific test, Randi picked up a rock album by Alice
Cooper and a voice (without music) recording entitled "So You Want To Be
a Magician."
Randi covered the labels and matrix numbers of all the albums with layers
of aluminum foil and paper. He then gave the disguised records to a
colleague, who covered the labels another time, so that when the test
began Randi himself did not know which album was which. In science, this
is called a double-blind test; it prevents the experimenter's bias from
influencing the results. DISCOVER does not fool around.
When Randi handed the first album to Lintgen, the doctor examined both
sides. "This is a pair of classical symphonies," he said, "but I think
it's pre-Beethoven probably a pair of Mozart symphonies. -- At the end
of the test, when all of the labels were uncovered, the record turned
out to be Mozart's 40th and 41st symphonies. --
Randi gave Lintgen another record. He examined the grooves and asked, "Is
this one complete composition? If it is, I don't know it. But I'm
almost sure it's Beethoven's Sixth." He took a closer look: "Oh I see,
they've added an extra overture . . . the "Prometheus" Overture." --
Lintgen was correct. --
Another record. "This is gibberish," Lintgen said. "It's not
classical. It doesn't seem to have much structure." -- Alice Cooper. --
Another. Lintgen laughed. "There are no instruments on this. If I had
to guess, I'd say it was solo vocal." -- So You Want To Be a Magician.
--
Next. "This is Holst's Planets. I've never seen this recording before.
Must be digital. And probably a German orchestra." -- Indeed it was the
Berlin Philharmonic. --
An so the test went; the doctor never made a mistake. How does he do
it? He is a classical music buff, and expert in the dynamics of
orchestral music; he knows every passage of hundreds of symphonies, and
recognizes the patterns made in the grooves by diferent rhythms and
volumes of sound. Says Randi, "He's the real thing there's no doubt in
my mind. I was flabbergasted."
Lintgen, dedicated to medicine, regards his unusual talent as nothing
more than a hobby. Unlike others challenged by Skeptical Eye, he claims
no paranormal powers, and, in a controlled test, demonstrated that his
ability was authentic. DISCOVER's staff, jaded by spurious claims of the
paranormal, welcomes Lintgen's most refreshing rebuff.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Lintgen said in another interview that once he accurately named a
recording after accidentally seeing the light reflected from the grooves
on a record lying on a table some five feet away from him.
Now that is a wonderful, if useless, thing to be able to do, a
perfect illustration of the broad-ranging faculties of the human brain.
And altogether more interesting than some fraudulent spoon-bender.
Robert Matthews
a.a. #1801
.
User: "Bob Officer"

Title: Re: The vinyl record trick (was: Re: James Randi speaks) 04 Jan 2004 06:36:53 PM
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 18:17:37 -0400, in alt.astrology, Robert Matthews
<pyramus@ns.deleteme.sympatico.nospam.ca> wrote:

In article <G_yJb.11521$qS3.11424@nwrdny03.gnilink.net>,
"Ed Rhodes" <edward.j.rhodes@verizon.net> wrote:

"Jon Haugsand" <jonhaug@ifi.uio.no> wrote in message
news:dmekuhxx00.fsf_-_@viisi.ifi.uio.no...

* Bob Dog

Only one person with a trick ever challenged Randi on
Randi's terms set out for him, and the guy told Randi
afterward how he did it. (That was the guy who could
"read" vinyl records and say what the music was. His
trick was remembering the record company codes engraved
on the vinyl.)


This is, in any case, amazing. Has this really been testet all over,
or is this guy using additional tricks like any illusionist does?

I also wonder if James Randi had his heart miss a few heart beats
before the trick was disclosed...


I met Randi at Lou Tannen's around this time and he mentioned the "record
reading" guy. He said at the time that he had no idea how the guy did it and
was actually considering handing over the money when the guy fessed up that
he'd been "reading" the grooves.


Well, he apparently didn't fess up to anything; he said all along
that that was how he did it. Here's a piece I saved off Usenet from
years ago, and I don't know its provenance, except that it appears to be
from Discover magazine.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

A Record Claim.

There it was, printed in the New York Times, and an obvious candidate for
scrutiny by Skeptical Eye. The story was about a Pennsylvania doctor
named Arthur Lintgen, who could look at a phonograph record with its
label covered and, from the pattern of grooves, correctly identify the
recording. In some instances, he could even name the conductor. It was
obviously a case for James Randi, DISCOVER's favorite investigator of
psychics and other charlatans.

Randi was happy to oblige. "I thought the doctor's claims were quite
far-fetched," he says. "I called Lntgen and asked if he would mind
taking a test identifying some of MY records." Lintgen agreed, but
explained that he preferred fully orchestrated classical music from
Beethoven's time forward, and nothing as avant garde as electronic
music. Randi agreed to Lintgen's conditions and arranged to meet him in
two hours.

Dashing off to a record store, Randi bought the following recordings:
Beethoven's Sixth; Ravel's "Bolero"; Holst's "The Planets";
Tchaikovsky's "1812 Overture"; Mozart's 40th and 41st symphonies; and
two versions of Stravinsky's "Rite of Spring." In addition, as controls
for his planned scientific test, Randi picked up a rock album by Alice
Cooper and a voice (without music) recording entitled "So You Want To Be
a Magician."

Randi covered the labels and matrix numbers of all the albums with layers
of aluminum foil and paper. He then gave the disguised records to a
colleague, who covered the labels another time, so that when the test
began Randi himself did not know which album was which. In science, this
is called a double-blind test; it prevents the experimenter's bias from
influencing the results. DISCOVER does not fool around.

When Randi handed the first album to Lintgen, the doctor examined both
sides. "This is a pair of classical symphonies," he said, "but I think
it's pre-Beethoven probably a pair of Mozart symphonies. -- At the end
of the test, when all of the labels were uncovered, the record turned
out to be Mozart's 40th and 41st symphonies. --

Randi gave Lintgen another record. He examined the grooves and asked, "Is
this one complete composition? If it is, I don't know it. But I'm
almost sure it's Beethoven's Sixth." He took a closer look: "Oh I see,
they've added an extra overture . . . the "Prometheus" Overture." --
Lintgen was correct. --

Another record. "This is gibberish," Lintgen said. "It's not
classical. It doesn't seem to have much structure." -- Alice Cooper. --

Another. Lintgen laughed. "There are no instruments on this. If I had
to guess, I'd say it was solo vocal." -- So You Want To Be a Magician.

It is wonderful demonstration of the human minds ability to recognize
patterns.
Medicine for the most part is learning sets of patterns to make a
diagnosis. Treatment follows patterns of diagnosis. have a doctor miss a
pattern or not recognize it properly and you have a wrong treatment.
A good doctor is good at recognizing patterns.
Illustration of anecdotal evidence.
Back about 20 years ago, a friend of mine's dad got sick and died from a
mystery illness. His young doctor was mystified as to the cause of the
illness. The biopsy revealed the cause. Months before a simple overlooked
test would have revealed the cause and solution. The mystery illness? TB.
The test was an inexpensive sputum culture.
The real problem? The doctor, as a student had never seen the illness 1st
hand, and it was more or less skipped over because it was considered a
rarity in most of the US. At least the Secondary stages... The clues he
missed? The man had retired and spent the last few years living in a motor
home touring the Southern US and Florida. TB is found in most communities
in Florida. There was a large hole in this doctors education, and he had no
pattern to recognize this stage of the illness and had run down too many
blind alleys to solve the problem before it was too late.
I would be interested to see if he could do the trick if the recording was
reversed, as if looking in mirror... take an audio tape, reverse it and
record it onto a vinyl record.
I cold have pointed out Randi should have included some of the classical
music compositions with the orchestrations transposed for "tradition"
Chinese instruments. It might have confused the mans pattern recognition.
--
Aktohdi
.



User: "Ed Rhodes"

Title: Re: The vinyl record trick (was: Re: James Randi speaks) 03 Jan 2004 06:58:45 AM
"Jon Haugsand" <jonhaug@ifi.uio.no> wrote in message
news:dmekuhxx00.fsf_-_@viisi.ifi.uio.no...
Actually, I phrased that wrong. Randi said;
"If the guy had claimed paranormal powers, I wouldn't have had an answer and
would have had to pay out. But the guy never claimed paranormal powers, he
claimed and could show that he was reading the patterns in the grooves."
(paraphrasing... this was over 20 years ago.)
.
User: "Number1Fred"

Title: Re: The vinyl record trick (was: Re: James Randi speaks) 03 Jan 2004 09:16:21 AM
"Ed Rhodes" <edward.j.rhodes@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:90zJb.11522$qS3.4994@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...


"Jon Haugsand" <jonhaug@ifi.uio.no> wrote in message
news:dmekuhxx00.fsf_-_@viisi.ifi.uio.no...
Actually, I phrased that wrong. Randi said;

"If the guy had claimed paranormal powers, I wouldn't have had an answer

and

would have had to pay out. But the guy never claimed paranormal powers, he
claimed and could show that he was reading the patterns in the grooves."
(paraphrasing... this was over 20 years ago.)

He was also best at classical music and worst at rock and roll. This was in
Skeptical Inquirer.
.
User: "lensman1955"

Title: Re: The vinyl record trick (was: Re: James Randi speaks) 03 Jan 2004 12:01:22 PM
"Number1Fred" <gypsydocnospam@juno.com> wrote in message news:<91BJb.107113$Dt6.3096557@twister.tampabay.rr.com>...

"Ed Rhodes" <edward.j.rhodes@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:90zJb.11522$qS3.4994@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...


"Jon Haugsand" <jonhaug@ifi.uio.no> wrote in message
news:dmekuhxx00.fsf_-_@viisi.ifi.uio.no...
Actually, I phrased that wrong. Randi said;

"If the guy had claimed paranormal powers, I wouldn't have had an answer

and

would have had to pay out. But the guy never claimed paranormal powers, he
claimed and could show that he was reading the patterns in the grooves."
(paraphrasing... this was over 20 years ago.)


He was also best at classical music and worst at rock and roll. This was in
Skeptical Inquirer.

I believe that was because he taught classical music.
.

User: "Gonzalez, Elver"

Title: Re: The vinyl record trick (was: Re: James Randi speaks) 03 Jan 2004 02:17:22 PM
Randi is a fraud and a liar.
.
User: "Mike Painter"

Title: Re: The vinyl record trick (was: Re: James Randi speaks) 03 Jan 2004 05:04:44 PM
"Gonzalez, Elver" <elvergonzale@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:efcbcc21.0401031217.65359702@posting.google.com...

Randi is a fraud and a liar.

Randi is a fraud. He *will* trick you.
He *will* use all kinds of tricks in the performance of his fraud.
But he is among the first to tell you he is a fraud and that what he does is
deception and not magic.
A fraud, yes but he does not lie about it and just want those who claim to
have such powers to demonstrate them.
With the exception of dowsers and a small number of people who are just
naturally very good at cold reading they are the liars.
I mean nothing mystical about the cold reading. There are people who pay a
*lot* of attention to you and are naturally very good at doing what the
charlatan has to study.
.

User: "Chani"

Title: Re: The vinyl record trick (was: Re: James Randi speaks) 04 Jan 2004 03:55:25 AM
"Gonzalez, Elver" <elvergonzale@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:efcbcc21.0401031217.65359702@posting.google.com...

Randi is a fraud and a liar.

Really? What has Randi lied about? And what has Randi done that could be
considered fraudulent?
--
Chani, atheist #1118
Head of the EAC
Tweeker of Tukla, a very, um, colorful Ratte
***********************************
.
User: "|-|erc"

Title: Re: The vinyl record trick (was: Re: James Randi speaks) 04 Jan 2004 04:24:36 AM
<^> <(·¿·)> <^> ---- <^> <(·¿·)> <^> 2004 <^> <(·¿·)> <^> --- <^> <(·¿·)> <^>
"Chani" <atheist@thereisnogod.com> wrote in

"Gonzalez, Elver" <elvergonzale@hotmail.com> wrote

Randi is a fraud and a liar.


Really? What has Randi lied about? And what has Randi done that could be
considered fraudulent?


This is 1
----------------------------------------------
They have good reasons, I'm sure. I'll go along with their decision.
James Randi
-----Original Message-----
From: [mailto:chess@ozemail.com.au]
Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 7:54 PM
To: James Randi
Subject: Re: psychic test
Can someone else than Australia Skeptics do the preliminary test?
They refused to test me.
Thanks
----------------------------------------------
Knowing full well that A.S.S. has already been exposed
by national news as fraudulent.
----------------------------------------------
http://www.skeptics.com.au/features/press/aca.htm
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE : 20 June 2003
Any charge of our backing down is blatantly untrue and neither Mr Puffet nor
A Current Affair has any reason to suppose otherwise.
impression that Australian Skeptics (AS) had "backed-down" from testing
That impression, fostered by ACA both in its advertising and on air, is wrong
----------------------------------------------
Herc
.

User: "Gonzalez, Elver"

Title: Re: The vinyl record trick (was: Re: James Randi speaks) 11 Jan 2004 08:42:07 AM
"Chani" <atheist@thereisnogod.com> wrote in message news:<hqRJb.6382$Nq6.1633@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com>...

"Gonzalez, Elver" <elvergonzale@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:efcbcc21.0401031217.65359702@posting.google.com...

Randi is a fraud and a liar.


Really? What has Randi lied about? And what has Randi done that could be
considered fraudulent?

Here a resume:
He is in silence about this challenge....no comment. Randi is a
chicken.
http://groups.msn.com/SkepticsForumIsJamesRandialiar/asociationofbrainlessclowns.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=76
Also the administrator of the JREF forum (Hal Bidlack) is a believer
in God and pray.....a double standard or double speech.
.








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