| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Fredric L. Rice" |
| Date: |
07 Jul 2004 12:40:26 AM |
| Object: |
Jeb Bush dumb as a rock, too |
Marques said later that she had asked the governor the math question
only as a joke but she does believe the governor and others who call
for the use of the test should be able to pass it.
"I think I offended him," Marques said of the governor.
"I don't think he had much of a sense of humor."
From The Associated Press, 7/6/04:
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/9090920.htm?ERIGHTS=1644117538269068849miami::rivrvu@ix..netcom..com&KRD_RM=7oqppqpuprtqtsrwwsnnnnnnnn|Harry|Y
Teenager stumps Bush with pop math quiz
MIKE SCHNEIDER
Associated Press
ORLANDO, Fla. -
Gov. Jeb Bush had come to pitch the virtues of reading, but instead
got stumped on a math question Tuesday.
During a speech to high school students who mentor younger children in
reading, a teenager asked the governor a basic geometry question taken
from the Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test, which Bush has
championed.
"Me and a couple of my friends ... we know that the FCAT is a very
important part of schooling in Florida and we were wondering if you
could answer one of the questions we remember from the FCAT?" said
Luana Marques, 18, who just graduated from Freedom High School in
Orange County and is heading to Flagler College in the fall.
The luncheon crowd at an Orlando hotel, gathered to honor 200 students
who take part in the Teen Trendsetters Reading Mentor program, laughed
and Marques posed the question:
"What are the angles on a three-four-five-triangle?"
The governor gave a steely grin and then stalled a bit.
"The angles would be ... If I was going to guess ... Three-four-five.
Three-four-five. I don't know, 125, 90 and whatever remains on 180?"
Marques had an answer, although it wasn't the right one: "It's
30-60-90."
The correct answer was 90 degrees, 53.1 degrees and 36.9 degrees, said
Michelle Taylor, a graduate student in mathematics at the University
of Florida, when told about the governor's pop quiz.
Bush thanked Marques for the answer and then launched into a defense
of the FCAT test.
To graduate, every Florida public school student must pass the FCAT
or, after three failures, a college entrance exam like the SAT.
The FCAT is also the basis for the grades each public school receives.
Those grades govern which schools get an extra $100 per student as a
reward and which failing schools stand to see students receive
tax-funded vouchers to attend private school.
Critics of the test have long complained that it's unfair to black and
Hispanic students in urban districts.
Critics also have argued that students in predominantly white
districts are better prepared for the exam than students in urban
schools partly because of financial disparities.
---
Where to find Fahrenheit 9/11: http://www.f911tix.com/
For activists: Not Ordered Text Server at http://www.notserver.com/
Baby Killer Bush: most unwelcome American ever to set foot on Irish soil:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0624/primetime/primetime56_1c.smil
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| User: "Hector Plasmic" |
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| Title: Re: Jeb Bush dumb as a rock, too |
07 Jul 2004 07:43:11 AM |
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(Fredric L. Rice) wrote in message news:<10en3a6o0525sa5@corp.supernews.com>...
And this has what to do with the topic of the groups, Fred? I
wouldn't bother asking, but this sort of off-topic thing seems to be
*all* you post anymore, to the point it drives out everything else.
Are you a scientology plant or something these days? :-)
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| User: "nobody" |
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| Title: Re: Jeb Bush dumb as a rock, too |
07 Jul 2004 02:00:19 PM |
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(Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
"What are the angles on a three-four-five-triangle?"
The governor gave a steely grin and then stalled a bit.
"The angles would be ... If I was going to guess ... Three-four-five.
Three-four-five. I don't know, 125, 90 and whatever remains on 180?"
Silly answer but silly question too. Such a question would only make
sense in a suitable multiple choice setting. And I would hope
governors and other politicians utilize their time and effort with
trying to understand and the bigger picture, delegating and making
decision instead of memorizing minutiae.
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: Jeb Bush dumb as a rock, too |
07 Jul 2004 02:59:24 PM |
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In article <erhoe0peoin2rsuinvsdihm381tsu1u5pu@4ax.com>,
says...
REMOVEFRice@SkepticTank.ORG (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
"What are the angles on a three-four-five-triangle?"
The governor gave a steely grin and then stalled a bit.
"The angles would be ... If I was going to guess ... Three-four-five.
Three-four-five. I don't know, 125, 90 and whatever remains on 180?"
Silly answer but silly question too. Such a question would only make
sense in a suitable multiple choice setting. And I would hope
governors and other politicians utilize their time and effort with
trying to understand and the bigger picture, delegating and making
decision instead of memorizing minutiae.
If a calculator were available on the test, any second year algebra
student should be able to get an answer. It's common knowledge that a
3-4-5 triangle is right. (It's an example used whenever the Pythagorean
theorem is taught.) Trigonometric ratios will get you the sine or cosine
of the acute angles, and the arc sine or arc cosine function on the
calculator would get you the angles.
Alternatively, on a multiple choice test, knowing that the sums of the
interior angles of a triangle must add to 180 degrees, there may have
been only one possible correct answer.
This is a good question for a comprehensive high school math exam, but a
very dumb question to ask out of context, with no paper & pencil, no
trig tables or calculator.
--
Enkidu - AA# 2165
EAC Plant Psychologist
"Today, the theory of evolution is an accepted fact for
everyone but a fundamentalist minority, whose objections
are based not on reasoning but on doctrinaire adherence
to religious principles"
James D. Watson
http://www.nobel.se/medicine/laureates/1962/watson-bio.html
"The Astonishing Hypothesis is that `You,' your joys and
your sorrows, your memories and your ambitions, your
sense of personal identity and free will, are in fact no
more than the behavior of a vast assembly of nerve cells
and their associated molecules."
Francis Crick
http://www.nobel.se/medicine/laureates/1962/crick-bio.html
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| User: "Lord Calvert" |
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| Title: Re: Jeb Bush dumb as a rock, too |
07 Jul 2004 03:20:21 PM |
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This is a good question for a comprehensive high school math exam, but a
very dumb question to ask out of context, with no paper & pencil, no
trig tables or calculator.
While I agree with you I do think that it is telling that Bush couldn't give an
answer that was even remotely within the realm of possibility. The answer he
did give wasn't even physically possible for ANY triangle.
"The angles would be ... If I was going to guess ... Three-four-five.
Three-four-five. I don't know, 125, 90 and whatever remains on 180?"
Well, governor, if that is your answer than whatever remains on 180 would be
-35. Now we know that triangles with negative angles don't exist in the real
world but you obviously don't. Time for you to go back to high school, Jeb.
Rich Goranson, Amherst, NY, USA (aa#MCMXCIX, a-vet#1)
EAC Department of Applied Rattan Use
"Without faith we might relapse into scientific or rational thinking, which
leads by a slippery slope toward constitutional democracy." - Robert Anton
Wilson
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Jeb Bush dumb as a rock, too |
07 Jul 2004 04:11:46 PM |
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On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 19:00:19 +0000, nobody wrote:
REMOVEFRice@SkepticTank.ORG (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
"What are the angles on a three-four-five-triangle?"
The governor gave a steely grin and then stalled a bit.
"The angles would be ... If I was going to guess ... Three-four-five.
Three-four-five. I don't know, 125, 90 and whatever remains on 180?"
Silly answer but silly question too. Such a question would only make
sense in a suitable multiple choice setting. And I would hope
governors and other politicians utilize their time and effort with
trying to understand and the bigger picture, delegating and making
decision instead of memorizing minutiae.
I agree with the silliness of the question in that venue. I
also agree with your points about time and effort.
Sadly, the majority of what passes for 'education' in the primary
years *is* memorize and regurgitate minutiae. How much generates
an understanding of utilization, time period, and/or culture of
the time? Where, and how, can 'x' be applied? What demonstrates
student knowledge of the subject verses being lucky at guessing
the answer? How much encourages the cultivation of critical
thinking skills?
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| User: "nenslo" |
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| Title: Re: Jeb Bush dumb as a rock, too |
07 Jul 2004 04:34:36 PM |
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stoney wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 19:00:19 +0000, nobody wrote:
REMOVEFRice@SkepticTank.ORG (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
"What are the angles on a three-four-five-triangle?"
The governor gave a steely grin and then stalled a bit.
"The angles would be ... If I was going to guess ... Three-four-five.
Three-four-five. I don't know, 125, 90 and whatever remains on 180?"
Silly answer but silly question too. Such a question would only make
sense in a suitable multiple choice setting. And I would hope
governors and other politicians utilize their time and effort with
trying to understand and the bigger picture, delegating and making
decision instead of memorizing minutiae.
I agree with the silliness of the question in that venue. I
also agree with your points about time and effort.
Sadly, the majority of what passes for 'education' in the primary
years *is* memorize and regurgitate minutiae. How much generates
an understanding of utilization, time period, and/or culture of
the time? Where, and how, can 'x' be applied? What demonstrates
student knowledge of the subject verses being lucky at guessing
the answer? How much encourages the cultivation of critical
thinking skills?
I just don't see how it is particularly telling when people are unable
to answer questions which do not in any way relate to the skills they
need to perform their job. When does ANY politician actually use the
knowledge of the angles of a right triangle? NEVER, that's when. Nor
do they need to know how to overhaul a carburetor, bake bread, or any
other functional craft skill. That's not their job. Let's see any of
YOU get elected to high public office. So SHUT UP.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Jeb Bush dumb as a rock, too |
09 Jul 2004 05:58:44 PM |
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On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 14:34:36 -0700, nenslo wrote:
stoney wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 19:00:19 +0000, nobody wrote:
REMOVEFRice@SkepticTank.ORG (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
"What are the angles on a three-four-five-triangle?"
The governor gave a steely grin and then stalled a bit.
"The angles would be ... If I was going to guess ... Three-four-five.
Three-four-five. I don't know, 125, 90 and whatever remains on 180?"
Silly answer but silly question too. Such a question would only make
sense in a suitable multiple choice setting. And I would hope
governors and other politicians utilize their time and effort with
trying to understand and the bigger picture, delegating and making
decision instead of memorizing minutiae.
I agree with the silliness of the question in that venue. I
also agree with your points about time and effort.
Sadly, the majority of what passes for 'education' in the primary
years *is* memorize and regurgitate minutiae. How much generates
an understanding of utilization, time period, and/or culture of
the time? Where, and how, can 'x' be applied? What demonstrates
student knowledge of the subject verses being lucky at guessing
the answer? How much encourages the cultivation of critical
thinking skills?
I just don't see how it is particularly telling when people are unable
to answer questions which do not in any way relate to the skills they
need to perform their job. When does ANY politician actually use the
knowledge of the angles of a right triangle? NEVER, that's when. Nor
do they need to know how to overhaul a carburetor, bake bread, or any
other functional craft skill. That's not their job. Let's see any of
YOU get elected to high public office. So SHUT UP.
Gee, the clown doesn't know how to set things up when its replying to a
poster who's post is before the one its 'responding' to. In the meantime,
you're cordially invited to have self-intercourse.
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| User: "Joe Cosby http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl" |
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| Title: Re: Jeb Bush dumb as a rock, too |
09 Jul 2004 06:12:49 PM |
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On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 15:58:44 -0700, "stoney"
<stoney@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
Gee, the clown doesn't know how to set things up when its replying to a
poster who's post is before the one its 'responding' to.
I guess we're all bozos on this bus, I couldn't make heads or tails of
that sentence, let alone whatever it is you're trying to describe.
--
Joe Cosby
http://joecosby.com/
The only difference between surreal and hellish is in the latter you
wake up, but it's still surreal.
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| User: "Candlemoth" |
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| Title: Re: Jeb Bush dumb as a rock, too |
10 Jul 2004 01:32:29 AM |
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Joe Cosby wrote:
On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 15:58:44 -0700, "stoney"
<stoney@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
Gee, the clown doesn't know how to set things up when its replying to a
poster who's post is before the one its 'responding' to.
I guess we're all bozos on this bus, I couldn't make heads or tails of
that sentence, let alone whatever it is you're trying to describe.
The only practical application of 3-4-5 I've ever used was in
determining if a corner was square when I didn't have a framing square
handy. Can be inches or feet. Or 30-40-50 feet if ya wanna. ;)
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| User: "Cardinal Vertigo" |
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| Title: Re: Jeb Bush dumb as a rock, too |
09 Jul 2004 06:39:55 PM |
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Joe Cosby wrote:
On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 15:58:44 -0700, "stoney"
<stoney@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
Gee, the clown doesn't know how to set things up when its replying to a
poster who's post is before the one its 'responding' to.
I guess we're all bozos on this bus, I couldn't make heads or tails of
that sentence, let alone whatever it is you're trying to describe.
Dittos, Rush.
--
"Being in politics is like being a football coach. You have to be
smart enough to understand the game, and dumb enough to think it's
important."
- Eugene McCarthy
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Jeb Bush dumb as a rock, too |
10 Jul 2004 04:02:34 PM |
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On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 16:12:49 -0700, Joe Cosby wrote:
On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 15:58:44 -0700, "stoney"
<stoney@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
Gee, the clown doesn't know how to set things up when its replying to a
poster who's post is before the one its 'responding' to.
I guess we're all bozos on this bus,
Firesign Theatre. :)
I couldn't make heads or tails of
that sentence, let alone whatever it is you're trying to describe.
I know my prior post was clumsy. I couldn't think, then, of a different
way to phrase it. His comment/rant was aimed at the poster I responded
to, but he didn't snip out my comment or indicate he was piggy backing.
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| User: "Brian Westley" |
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| Title: Re: Jeb Bush dumb as a rock, too |
07 Jul 2004 05:01:08 PM |
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nenslo <nenslo@yahoox.com> writes:
....
I just don't see how it is particularly telling when people are unable
to answer questions which do not in any way relate to the skills they
need to perform their job. When does ANY politician actually use the
knowledge of the angles of a right triangle? NEVER, that's when. Nor
do they need to know how to overhaul a carburetor, bake bread, or any
other functional craft skill. That's not their job. Let's see any of
YOU get elected to high public office. So SHUT UP.
....
[Sherlock Holmes'] ignorance was as remarkable as his knowledge.
Of contemporary literature, philosophy and politics he appeared
to know next to nothing. Upon my quoting Thomas Carlyle,
he inquired in the naivest way who he might be and what he had
done. My surprise reached a climax, however, when I found
incidentally that he was ignorant of the Copernican Theory
and of the composition of the Solar System. That any
civilized human being in this nineteenth century should not
be aware that the earth travelled round the sun appeared to
be to me such an extraordinary fact that I could hardly
realize it.
"You appear to be astonished," he said, smiling at my
expression of surprise. "Now that I do know it I shall do my
best to forget it."
"To forget it!"
"You see," he explained, "I consider that a man's brain
originally is like a little empty attic, and you have to
stock it with such furniture as you choose. A fool takes in
all the lumber of every sort that he comes across, so that
the knowledge which might be useful to him gets crowded out,
or at best is jumbled up with a lot of other things so that
he has a difficulty in laying his hands upon it. Now the
skilful workman is very careful indeed as to what he takes
into his brain-attic. He will have nothing but the tools
which may help him in doing his work, but of these he has
a large assortment, and all in the most perfect order.
It is a mistake to think that that little room has elastic
walls and can distend to any extent. Depend upon it there comes
a time when for every addition of knowledge you forget something
that you knew before. It is of the highest importance, therefore,
not to have useless facts elbowing out the useful ones."
"But the Solar System!" I protested.
"What the deuce is it to me?" he interrupted impatiently;
"you say that we go round the sun. If we went round the moon it
would not make a pennyworth of difference to me or to my work."
....
-- From "A Study in Scarlet"
---
Merlyn LeRoy
PS: Jeb Bush is STILL dumb as a rock, though.
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| User: "nenslo" |
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| Title: Re: Jeb Bush dumb as a rock, too |
07 Jul 2004 08:50:25 PM |
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Brian Westley wrote:
nenslo <nenslo@yahoox.com> writes:
...
I just don't see how it is particularly telling when people are unable
to answer questions which do not in any way relate to the skills they
need to perform their job. When does ANY politician actually use the
knowledge of the angles of a right triangle? NEVER, that's when. Nor
do they need to know how to overhaul a carburetor, bake bread, or any
other functional craft skill. That's not their job. Let's see any of
YOU get elected to high public office. So SHUT UP.
...
[Sherlock Holmes'] ignorance was as remarkable as his knowledge.
Of contemporary literature, philosophy and politics he appeared
to know next to nothing. Upon my quoting Thomas Carlyle,
he inquired in the naivest way who he might be and what he had
done. My surprise reached a climax, however, when I found
incidentally that he was ignorant of the Copernican Theory
and of the composition of the Solar System. That any
civilized human being in this nineteenth century should not
be aware that the earth travelled round the sun appeared to
be to me such an extraordinary fact that I could hardly
realize it.
"You appear to be astonished," he said, smiling at my
expression of surprise. "Now that I do know it I shall do my
best to forget it."
"To forget it!"
"You see," he explained, "I consider that a man's brain
originally is like a little empty attic, and you have to
stock it with such furniture as you choose. A fool takes in
all the lumber of every sort that he comes across, so that
the knowledge which might be useful to him gets crowded out,
or at best is jumbled up with a lot of other things so that
he has a difficulty in laying his hands upon it. Now the
skilful workman is very careful indeed as to what he takes
into his brain-attic. He will have nothing but the tools
which may help him in doing his work, but of these he has
a large assortment, and all in the most perfect order.
It is a mistake to think that that little room has elastic
walls and can distend to any extent. Depend upon it there comes
a time when for every addition of knowledge you forget something
that you knew before. It is of the highest importance, therefore,
not to have useless facts elbowing out the useful ones."
"But the Solar System!" I protested.
"What the deuce is it to me?" he interrupted impatiently;
"you say that we go round the sun. If we went round the moon it
would not make a pennyworth of difference to me or to my work."
...
-- From "A Study in Scarlet"
I agree with this post.
---
Merlyn LeRoy
PS: Jeb Bush is STILL dumb as a rock, though.
Well yeah. Just not for that reason. If Dan Quayle had been somewhat
less of a dope he would have said, "As Vice President, I have people to
spell potato for me."
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: Jeb Bush dumb as a rock, too |
07 Jul 2004 08:58:53 PM |
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nobody <nobody@here.com> wrote:
REMOVEFRice@SkepticTank.ORG (Fredric L. Rice) wrote:
"What are the angles on a three-four-five-triangle?"
The governor gave a steely grin and then stalled a bit.
"The angles would be ... If I was going to guess ... Three-four-five.
Three-four-five. I don't know, 125, 90 and whatever remains on 180?"
Silly answer but silly question too. Such a question would only make
sense in a suitable multiple choice setting. And I would hope
governors and other politicians utilize their time and effort with
trying to understand and the bigger picture, delegating and making
decision instead of memorizing minutiae.
The smart politician would have offered to work it out on paper and
have time to think about it, promising to give an answer after working
it out. The dumb, cocaine-addled drunk will stammer out some improbable
holding place while trying to appear to be capable of passing the very
scholastic test he's been pushing.
---
Where to find Fahrenheit 9/11: http://www.f911tix.com/
For activists: Not Ordered Text Server at http://www.notserver.com/
Baby Killer Bush: most unwelcome American ever to set foot on Irish soil:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0624/primetime/primetime56_1c.smil
.
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| User: "Rev. Ivan Stang" |
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| Title: Re: Jeb Bush dumb as a rock, too |
08 Jul 2004 11:23:00 AM |
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In article <10epaovle5qame4@corp.supernews.com>, Fredric L. Rice
<REMOVEFRice@SkepticTank.ORG> wrote:
The smart politician would have offered to work it out on paper and
have time to think about it, promising to give an answer after working
it out. The dumb, cocaine-addled drunk will stammer out some improbable
holding place while trying to appear to be capable of passing the very
scholastic test he's been pushing.
Methinks the lady doth protest too much.
--
4th Stangian Orthodox MegaFisTemple Lodge of the Wrath of Dobbs Yeti,
Resurrected (Rev. Ivan Stang, prop.)
P.O. Box 181417, Cleveland, OH 44118 (fax 216-320-9528)
A subsidiary of:
The SubGenius Foundation, Inc. / P.O. Box 204206, Austin, TX 78720-4206
Dobbs-Approved Authorized Commercial Outreach of The Church of the SubGenius
SubSITE: http://www.subgenius.com
For SubGenius Biz & Orders: call toll free to 1-888-669-2323
or email:
PRABOB
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| User: "Unclaimed Mysteries" |
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| Title: Re: Jeb Bush dumb as a rock, too |
07 Jul 2004 03:05:54 AM |
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Fredric L. Rice wrote in part:
Marques said later that she had asked the governor the math question
only as a joke but she does believe the governor and others who call
for the use of the test should be able to pass it.
"I think I offended him," Marques said of the governor.
"I don't think he had much of a sense of humor."
From The Associated Press, 7/6/04:
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/9090920.htm?ERIGHTS=1644117538269068849miami::rivrvu@ix..netcom..com&KRD_RM=7oqppqpuprtqtsrwwsnnnnnnnn|Harry|Y
Teenager stumps Bush with pop math quiz
MIKE SCHNEIDER
Associated Press
ORLANDO, Fla. -
Gov. Jeb Bush had come to pitch the virtues of reading, but instead
got stumped on a math question Tuesday.
During a speech to high school students who mentor younger children in
reading, a teenager asked the governor a basic geometry question taken
from the Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test, which Bush has
championed.
"Me and a couple of my friends ... we know that the FCAT is a very
important part of schooling in Florida and we were wondering if you
could answer one of the questions we remember from the FCAT?" said
Luana Marques, 18, who just graduated from Freedom High School in
Orange County and is heading to Flagler College in the fall.
The luncheon crowd at an Orlando hotel, gathered to honor 200 students
who take part in the Teen Trendsetters Reading Mentor program, laughed
and Marques posed the question:
"What are the angles on a three-four-five-triangle?"
The governor gave a steely grin and then stalled a bit.
"The angles would be ... If I was going to guess ... Three-four-five.
Three-four-five. I don't know, 125, 90 and whatever remains on 180?"
Marques had an answer, although it wasn't the right one: "It's
30-60-90."
The correct answer was 90 degrees, 53.1 degrees and 36.9 degrees, said
Michelle Taylor, a graduate student in mathematics at the University
of Florida, when told about the governor's pop quiz.
Bush thanked Marques for the answer and then launched into a defense
of the FCAT test.
Well, offhand I probably wouldn't recall the angles in degrees, but I'd
recognize the triangle as a right triangle, with the sum of the squares
of two sides (9+16) equaling the square of the third side (25). That
means one angle is 90 degrees fersure. The others you can figure out by
knowing what the sine and cosine actually *mean* in terms of sides of a
right triangle; that's a much more useful skill than merely remembering
what the degree values were in that one case.
One acute angle is arcsin(3/5), the other is arcsin(4/5). Bada-bing,
bada-boom. You're done.
Lousy question. It hints that the students are being taught geometry by
rote. That doesn't work in the long run. Might work if all you're doing
is "teaching to the test."
Still, these's little excuse for Jeb's "125, 90 and whatever remains on
180" answer. In which case they should probably quit the math questions
and just sit for a few minutes and read "The Pet Goat" or something.
--
It Came From C. L. Smith's Unclaimed Mysteries.
http://www.unclaimedmysteries.net
T. Boozer wrote in rolltidefan.net: "That dude that took the picture,
Corry Smith, is a bigtime aubie. Notice he named the pic
'BRIANDENNEHYstadium' Screw him!"
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| User: "Rev. 11D Meow!" |
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| Title: Re: Jeb Bush dumb as a rock, too |
07 Jul 2004 03:11:42 AM |
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"Unclaimed Mysteries"
<theletter_k_andthenumeral_4_doh@unclaimedmysteries.net> wrote in message
news:C9OGc.10822$yy1.1959@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Fredric L. Rice wrote in part:
Marques said later that she had asked the governor the math question
only as a joke but she does believe the governor and others who call
for the use of the test should be able to pass it.
"I think I offended him," Marques said of the governor. "I don't think he
had much of a sense of humor."
From The Associated Press, 7/6/04:
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/9090920.htm?ERIGHTS=1644117538269068849miami::rivrvu@ix..netcom..com&KRD_RM=7oqppqpuprtqtsrwwsnnnnnnnn|Harry|Y
Teenager stumps Bush with pop math quiz
MIKE SCHNEIDER
Associated Press
ORLANDO, Fla. - Gov. Jeb Bush had come to pitch the virtues of reading,
but instead
got stumped on a math question Tuesday.
During a speech to high school students who mentor younger children in
reading, a teenager asked the governor a basic geometry question taken
from the Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test, which Bush has
championed.
"Me and a couple of my friends ... we know that the FCAT is a very
important part of schooling in Florida and we were wondering if you
could answer one of the questions we remember from the FCAT?" said
Luana Marques, 18, who just graduated from Freedom High School in
Orange County and is heading to Flagler College in the fall.
The luncheon crowd at an Orlando hotel, gathered to honor 200 students
who take part in the Teen Trendsetters Reading Mentor program, laughed
and Marques posed the question: "What are the angles on a
three-four-five-triangle?"
The governor gave a steely grin and then stalled a bit. "The angles would
be ... If I was going to guess ... Three-four-five.
Three-four-five. I don't know, 125, 90 and whatever remains on 180?"
Marques had an answer, although it wasn't the right one: "It's
30-60-90."
The correct answer was 90 degrees, 53.1 degrees and 36.9 degrees, said
Michelle Taylor, a graduate student in mathematics at the University
of Florida, when told about the governor's pop quiz.
Bush thanked Marques for the answer and then launched into a defense
of the FCAT test.
Well, offhand I probably wouldn't recall the angles in degrees, but I'd
recognize the triangle as a right triangle, with the sum of the squares of
two sides (9+16) equaling the square of the third side (25). That means
one angle is 90 degrees fersure. The others you can figure out by knowing
what the sine and cosine actually *mean* in terms of sides of a right
triangle; that's a much more useful skill than merely remembering what the
degree values were in that one case.
One acute angle is arcsin(3/5), the other is arcsin(4/5). Bada-bing,
bada-boom. You're done.
Lousy question. It hints that the students are being taught geometry by
rote. That doesn't work in the long run. Might work if all you're doing is
"teaching to the test."
Still, these's little excuse for Jeb's "125, 90 and whatever remains on
180" answer. In which case they should probably quit the math questions
and just sit for a few minutes and read "The Pet Goat" or something.
It's that same gardangblang Non-Euclidean math 'they' use to get us to
imagine the US dollar actually means anything anymore..,
Personally, curves are more my style...
http://www-gap.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Curves/Curves.html
--
It Came From C. L. Smith's Unclaimed Mysteries.
http://www.unclaimedmysteries.net
T. Boozer wrote in rolltidefan.net: "That dude that took the picture,
Corry Smith, is a bigtime aubie. Notice he named the pic
'BRIANDENNEHYstadium' Screw him!"
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Jeb Bush dumb as a rock, too |
08 Jul 2004 05:36:03 AM |
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On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 08:05:54 GMT, Unclaimed Mysteries
<theletter_k_andthenumeral_4_doh@unclaimedmysteries.net> wrote:
Lousy question. It hints that the students are being taught geometry by
rote. That doesn't work in the long run. Might work if all you're doing
is "teaching to the test."
Yep, that's about it.
duke
*****
I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear
it now. When he comes, the Holy Spirit will declare
to you the things that are coming. John 16:12-15.
*****
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| User: "John Popelish" |
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| Title: Re: Jeb Bush dumb as a rock, too |
07 Jul 2004 09:45:52 AM |
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Unclaimed Mysteries wrote:
(snip)
One acute angle is arcsin(3/5), the other is arcsin(4/5). Bada-bing,
bada-boom. You're done.
Lousy question. It hints that the students are being taught geometry by
rote. That doesn't work in the long run. Might work if all you're doing
is "teaching to the test."
(snip)
I agree that it is a lousy question. A much better one would have
been, "What is the sine of the most acute angle of a 3,4,5 triangle?"
or something similar that doesn't involve simply memorizing examples.
--
John Popelish
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| User: "polar bear" |
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| Title: Re: Jeb Bush dumb as a rock, too |
07 Jul 2004 01:25:25 PM |
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In article <40EC0CA0.9B25324D@rica.net>, John Popelish
<jpopelish@rica.net> wrote:
Unclaimed Mysteries wrote:
(snip)
One acute angle is arcsin(3/5), the other is arcsin(4/5). Bada-bing,
bada-boom. You're done.
Lousy question. It hints that the students are being taught geometry by
rote. That doesn't work in the long run. Might work if all you're doing
is "teaching to the test."
(snip)
I agree that it is a lousy question. A much better one would have
been, "What is the sine of the most acute angle of a 3,4,5 triangle?"
or something similar that doesn't involve simply memorizing examples.
A better answer would be: if you study this stuff real hard now, then
later on you won't have to remember it because you'll have people
working for you that do.
pb
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| User: "nu-monet v7.0" |
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| Title: Re: Jeb Bush dumb as a rock, too |
07 Jul 2004 10:40:16 AM |
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Fredric L. Rice wrote:
Oh, that's the old "EQ ambush trick".
EQ, short for "Economics Quotient" was a play on
"Intelligence Quotient", in which some microphone
wielding person would walk up to someone on the
street and ask them a question about economics.
Of course, NOBODY even got even the simple ones,
because they were thinking about other things, and
would have to ponder for maybe fifteen or twenty
seconds before coming up with the right answer,
which would make them look like a dunce. Otherwise,
they would either blurt out "I don't know" or take
a stupid wild guess, either one making them look
stupid.
The EQ people then used this to show how IGNORANT
THE AMERICAN PUBLIC ARE ABOUT ECONOMICS! (and how
more economics ought to be taught in school, and
how more economists ought to be hired to teach,
etc.)
Others used the EQ technique for things like "What
are the names of your Congressmen?", "Name three
Supreme Court Justices", and of course question
that nobody could answer, "Do you know how many
Americans died of lung cancer this year?"
IN OTHER WORDS, IT'S *****.
All it proves is that JB is a gentleman for not
telling the guy off, or having him arrested like
Bill Clinton did when some guy asked him the Rush
Limbaugh created question, "Has any nation ever
taxed itself into prosperity?"
--
Two headed people are the future.
Get used to it, single head.
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| User: "Brian Westley" |
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| Title: Re: Jeb Bush dumb as a rock, too |
07 Jul 2004 02:35:11 PM |
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"nu-monet v7.0" <nothing@succeeds.com> writes:
....
Others used the EQ technique for things like "What
are the names of your Congressmen?", "Name three
Supreme Court Justices", and of course question
that nobody could answer, "Do you know how many
Americans died of lung cancer this year?"
That last one is EASY. "No, I don't know."
---
Merlyn LeRoy
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| User: "Daniel Kolle" |
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| Title: Re: Jeb Bush dumb as a rock, too |
07 Jul 2004 04:01:02 PM |
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On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 05:40:26 GMT, (Fredric
L. Rice) thought hard and said:
"What are the angles on a three-four-five-triangle?"
Ummm... *****. Hell, I dunno. And I just took geometry last school
year!
--
-Daniel "Mr. Brevity" Kolle; 16 A.A. #2035
Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, Gustav Mahler, Krzysztof Penderecki, and Geirr Tveitt are my Gods.
Head of EAC Denial Department and Madly Insane Scientist.
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| User: "Cardinal Vertigo" |
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| Title: Re: Jeb Bush dumb as a rock, too |
07 Jul 2004 07:20:59 PM |
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Daniel Kolle wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 05:40:26 GMT, (Fredric
L. Rice) thought hard and said:
"What are the angles on a three-four-five-triangle?"
Ummm... *****. Hell, I dunno. And I just took geometry last school
year!
Good. It's not worth memorizing.
If you ever take any math beyond geometry, you want to be able to
quickly recognize that 3-4-5 is a Pythagorean triple and that a triangle
with the sides of that ratio is therefore going to be a right triangle.
But memorizing the specific angles is pointless, and you were probably
never asked to anyway.
Only someone who's in the middle of teaching or taking a class that
touches on the subject, and who's better at spatial visualization than
most, will be able to rattle off the correct answer if their mind was
occupied with something else when you asked the question.
I don't think high school geometry students are even introduced to the
inverse trig functions (which is what you have to understand in order to
correctly answer that question). See, you can't do much real geometry
without introducing trigonometry, and in most high schools trigonometry
is a seperate class with geometry as a prerequisite. (Ironically, most
of the concepts covered in a high school trig class are actually geometric.)
So most high schools teach geometry to students who have only taken
introductory algebra. They manage it by using an almost purely analytic
method. That is, they have students memorize theorems and postulates,
and the homework and tests consist mostly of formal proofs.
As an aside, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. The analytic model is
great for developing abstract thinking skills and formal logical
reasoning. That's the whole idea behind teaching high school kids
spatial mathematics anyway. Most of them aren't ever going to "actually
use" any of it, either in college or in their jobs or careers.
They're either not going to college, or they're going to barely pass the
basic college algebra class for the general education requirement and be
finished with math forever. The only kids who will ever actually apply
anything beyond elementary algebra will be the kids who go on to a
four-year college and major in the sciences.
And a lot of science undergrads can get away with just a couple algebra
and statistics courses (and statistics is just thinly disguised
algebra). With a few exceptions, the only sciences that really require
fundamental understanding and frequent application of higher math at the
undergraduate level are physics and its applied disciplines. Well, and
mathematics itself.
In most of the rest of the sciences (and in all the social sciences) if
any math beyond algebra and statistics is ever needed it's just taught
in the science class alongside the concept that it applies to. But the
reasoning skills developed by learning basic spatial math in high school
are valuable to anyone in any field, even though the specific concepts
will eventually fade from memory. And for that same reason, most decent
colleges require some advanced math (usually up to the calculus or
linear algebra level) for all science undergraduates whether or not
their field really requires it at that point. Besides, a lot of science
majors go on to graduate school and end up needing all the math anyway.
So anyway, a high school geometry student probably hasn't been
introduced to the inverse trig functions yet. And if you don't know what
an arcsine is, the right answer isn't "arcsin(4/5), arcsin(3/5), 90."
It's "well, one angle is definitely going to be 90 degrees but I'd need
a trig calculator to tell you about the other two."
So anyway, a modern high school geometry class following the analytic
model, which most do, will most definitely have students learn and
memorize the ratios of the lengths of the sides of 30-60-90 and 45-45-90
triangles. (1:sqrt[3]:2 and 1:1:sqrt[2], thank you Mr. Roth.)
And that's probably what the FCAT question they were trying to remember
was about. If I remember right, the kids in my high school geometry
class got special-angle triangles mixed up with Pythagorean triples all
the time, and that's probably fairly typical.
So I doubt the 3-4-5 angles question was actually on the test, unless
trig calculators were forbidden and only one multiple-choice answer
contained a 90-degree angle. But standardized tests usually aren't that
subtle, and without bothering to Google it I'd bet last week's paycheck
that trig calculators are indeed allowed on the FCAT.
The kids were probably just misunderremembering.
--
"In mathematics you don't understand things. You just get used to
them."
- John von Neumann
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Jeb Bush dumb as a rock, too |
07 Jul 2004 10:52:07 PM |
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On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 16:01:02 -0500, Daniel Kolle <DKolle@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Wed, 07 Jul 2004 05:40:26 GMT, (Fredric
L. Rice) thought hard and said:
"What are the angles on a three-four-five-triangle?"
Ummm... *****. Hell, I dunno. And I just took geometry last school
year!
I agree. Jeb Bush might be dumb as a rock, but I wouldn't attempt to
make that assumption based only on one question; which apparently even
the questioner didn't know the answer to. In my mind, I would only be
able to assume that the questioner was "dumb as a rock" for asking a
question that they knew in advance, yet didn't bother to know the
correct answer for.
Quick, what is the mass of Pluto? Don't know? Dumbass...it's 114
kilograms! You're dumb as a rock!
And, by the way, I have a problem with the questioner's opening
statement:
"Me and a couple of my friends ... "
Shouldn't that be "A couple of friends and I..."?
Again, Jeb might be dumb ...but ...certainly not compared to this
particular grand inquisitor. I could be wrong, however. She *has* been
accepted to the highly acclaimed Flagler College. Which, might I add,
is celebrating 35 years of educational excellence. Credentials like
that don't grow on trees, doncha know!
Just trying to be fair and balanced!
--
zamboni
#2139
Denigrator of Theists
BAAWA acolyte
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