http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/9526/round002.html#anchor376445
JEFFERSON & THE CONSTITUTIONAL "WALL OF SEPARATION"
For the Christian radical religious right, the constitutional
Separation of Church and State espoused by Thomas Jefferson, and
enumerated to in the US Constitution, and upheld in numerous legal
decisions made by the US Supreme Court, are nothing but anti-Christian
bigoted blow's aimed at Christianity and the Christian's right to
Freedom of Religion. Sandlin, with Chalcedon, Inc., states; "But we do
not believe in the separation of the state (or any other institution)
from God. God by His law must govern the state just as He governs the
individual, family, and church." Sandlin and others within the
Christian radical religious right, continue to state that they support
the separation of church and state, and the US Constitution, but words
and actions are showing that they soundly do not fully support the
Constitution, as enumerated, especially the part about the separation
of church and state. These same Christian extremist individuals and
groups of individuals, also believe that
"modern-liberals-have-misunderstood," and therefore misinterpreted
Thomas Jefferson's statements about the absolute "wall of separation"
which is to exist between church and state.
Let's put the question of the "wall of separation," that is to exist
between Church and State to the University of Virginia, and statements
made directly by Thomas Jefferson on both religion, and the subject of
church and state.
The University of Virginia has summed up the subject of religion and
Jefferson's attitude on religion, like this: "Because religious
belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person's
life, freedom of religion affects every individual. Religious
institutions that use government power in support of themselves and
force their views on persons of other faith, undermine all our civil
rights. Moreover, state support of an established religion tends to
make the clergy unresponsive to their own people, and leads to
corruption within religion itself. Erecting the 'wall of separation
between church and state,' therefore, is absolutely essential in a
free society." This appeared at the University of Virginia website on,
Jefferson on Politics & Government: Freedom of Religion, which is a
website with a compilation of Thomas Jefferson quotations on "Freedom
of Religion."
To get a true and factual understanding [meaning & interpretation] of
the statements made by Jefferson on the "wall of separation" which is
to exist between church and state, one needs to understand the
feelings and sentiments which Jefferson professed about religion.
Jefferson, and many other early American's, felt that religion, and
freedom of religion, was strictly an individual issue. That the matter
of a belief or non-belief and faith in God, was strictly an individual
matter, "...of liberty to worship our Creator in the way we
[individually] think most agreeable to His will." Simply put, the
matter of religion and belief is a personal one.
So, what do you think Thomas Jefferson's opinion and beliefs would
have been, about the Christian radical religious right's belief, that;
"First, the law is the external regulation of society . It keeps
external sin in check. The civil magistrate thus is required to
enforce God's law." ??
Simply put, Jefferson believed that it was not the place of the civil
magistrate's or government's "...to enforce God's law." Thomas
Jefferson clearly expresses this in his statement to Samuel Miller,
1808; "I do not believe it is for the interest of religion to invite
the civil magistrate to direct its exercises, its discipline, or its
doctrines." In the Statute for Religious Freedom, years earlier in
1779, Jefferson put forth the same sentiment; "To suffer the civil
magistrate to intrude his powers into the field of opinion and to
restrain the profession or propagation of principles on supposition of
their ill tendency is a dangerous fallacy which at once destroys all
religious liberty, because he being of course judge of that tendency
will make his opinions the rule of judgment and approve or condemn the
sentiments of others only as they shall square with or differ from his
own." There is no power within the US Constitution, which gives any
civil or governmental authority the power, or the right, "...to
enforce God's law." Requiring any Judge or Jury to render a decision
based on enforcing any type of God's law [Biblical law], automatically
makes that government a religious run State government, no matter how
small or large the religious involvement in the Laws of that country
or locality.
Another of the Christian radical religious right's important goals, is
to takeover the teaching and education of all children from the
earliest age onward. How did Thomas Jefferson and other founding
Americans feel about this? Thomas Jefferson, like many other founding
Americans [including the Author's own founding family], did not want
any religious reading, instruction or exercise of religion in the
public educational process. Jefferson expressed this in his statements
regarding the Elementary School Act, 1817; "No religious reading,
instruction or exercise, shall be prescribed or practiced inconsistent
with the tenents of any religious sect or denomination." Another
statement made by Jefferson at the same time, in regards to the
Elementary School Act, 1817, reflects the sentiments that, "Ministers
of the Gospel are excluded [from serving as Visitors of the county
Elementary Schools] to avoid jealousy from the other sects, were the
public education committed to the ministers of a particular one; and
with more reason than in the case of their exclusion from the
legislative and executive functions." So, not only were Ministers and
religion to stay out of education, according to Jefferson; Ministers
and religion are to stay out of the legislative and executive
functions of US government, as well as out of education.
What sentiments would Thomas Jefferson have expressed, about religion
and the modern Christian radical religious right disturbing the peace
of Nations, in order "...to exercise dominion in His name throughout
the earth?" Remember, one of the primary goals and objectives of the
orthodox Christian Reform Movement, of the radical religious right, is
to exercise the dominion of God and the Christian Bible throughout the
entire world. Jefferson offered this statement, in 1823, about the
dominion of God, the Bible, and the spread of His Lordship's rule
through out the earth; "I do not know that it is a duty to disturb by
missionaries the religion and peace of other countries, who may think
themselves bound to extinguish by fire and fagot the heresies to which
we give the name of conversions, and quote our own example for it.
Were the Pope, or his holy allies, to send in mission to us some
thousands of Jesuit priests to convert us to their orthodoxy, I
suspect that we should deem and treat it as a national aggression on
our peace and faith." We know from the Christian radical religious
right's own words, that the Christian Reform Movement is "catholic
orthodoxy," so we can expect that Jefferson and other founding
Americans would have treated this current orthodox Christian religious
movement "...as a national aggression on our peace and faith."
Thomas Jefferson was not against freedom of religion, and believed in
the free exercise of religion, but he also insisted that no one
religion was any better than the other. Jefferson was an advocate of
religious freedom,but zealous Christian religious clergy, past and
present, have not given him any peace or forgiveness because of this
stand on religion.
When Jefferson took office as President, the Christian religious
clergy were sure that the demise of organized religion in the United
States, was just around the corner. It was the following Jefferson
statement to Benjamin Rush, in 1800, which gave the Christian clergy
that impression, but the statement also clarifies Jefferson's feelings
for the tyranny which can be created through the bonding of church and
state: "The clergy...believe that any portion of power confided to me
[as President] will be exerted in opposition to their schemes. And
they believe rightly: for I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal
hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man. But this
is all they have to fear from me: and enough, too, in their opinion."
For Thomas Jefferson, and others of the time with sentiments similar
to those of his, maintaining a free civil government was of primary
importance and concern. One of the aspects of having a free civil
government, meant of course, keeping religion out of politics and
government. In this statement by Jefferson, in 1813, we see an example
of the strong reasons which Jefferson had, for keeping religion out of
government; "History, I believe, furnishes no example of a
priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks
the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as
religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own
purposes." Why would Jefferson feel like that? The answer is best
expressed in this statement made by Jefferson himself, in 1814; "In
every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to
liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses
in return for protection to his own." Thomas Jefferson as we have all
learned from History, was hostile to any form of tyranny over the mind
of man, including religious tyranny, which would interfere with the
liberties and freedoms of humankind. The History of Christian
religious tyranny is long and complex, and spans a time period which
is more than 1700 years in length [See Chronology].
There is no mistaking or misunderstanding the feelings and sentiments
of Thomas Jefferson when it comes to religion, and his feelings and
sentiment for the placement of an absolute "Wall of Separation"
between church and state. It was the feelings and sentiments, based on
sound reasoning and fact, as expressed in the above statements of
Jefferson, which were the motivating and driving factors which caused
Jefferson to make his famous statement about the separation of church
and state, in 1802; "Believing... that religion is a matter which lies
solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for
his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government
reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign
reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that
their Legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of
religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a
wall of separation between Church and State." This same sentiment is
reaffirmed by Thomas Jefferson in 1821, in Jefferson's Autobiography;
"[When] the [Virginia] bill for establishing religious freedom... was
finally passed... a singular proposition proved that its protection of
opinion was meant to be universal. Where the preamble declares that
coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our
religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word "Jesus
Christ," so that it should read "a departure from the plan of Jesus
Christ, the holy author of our religion." The insertion was rejected
by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend within the
mantle of its protection the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and
Mahometan, the Hindoo and infidel of every denomination."
The "Wall of Separation," barrier provided in ARTICLE I of the US Bill
of Rights, and re-enforced by Thomas Jefferson statements, is
therefore, an absolute barrier of separation that is to purposely
exist between Church and State, and that religious opinion, no matter
what that religious opinion is, has no more weight or bearing than any
other opinion which is based on non-factual and unproveable beliefs.
Our civil rights are our natural rights, and those rights, liberties,
and freedoms, have no dependence, whatsoever, on religious beliefs or
opinions. [See the section on Natural Law's and Basic Human Rights]
Does this mean that Thomas Jefferson, and others past and present, who
support the "Wall of Separation" between Church and State, are
anti-Jesus and anti-Christian hate filled bigots? No, it simply means
that we do not subscribe to the extremist philosophies, and warped
propaganda being dished-out by radical religious right orthodox
Christian's, Catholic and protestant alike. Thomas Jefferson best
summed this up, in 1810; "But a short time elapsed after the death of
the great reformer of the Jewish religion [Jesus], before his
principles were departed from by those who professed to be his special
servants, and perverted into an engine for enslaving mankind, and
aggrandizing their oppressors in Church and State." Thomas Jefferson,
like numerous others of us two hundred years later, believe that the
words and actions of Jesus have been terribly misused and abused by
those within Christianity.
The "Wall of Separation" between Church and State, is there to protect
the general masses of people from the tyranny and harm, which is
created when there is a working and cooperative relationship between
religion and government. This "Wall of Separation" is one of the basic
republican principles and protections found in the United States
Constitution, and is, therefore, an "absolute" guaranteed right which
Congress may not tamper with in any manner whatsoever.
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Posting and reading from alt.politics.usa.constitution OR alt.education
You are invited to check out the following:
The Rise of the Theocratic States of America
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocracy.htm
American Theocrats - Past and Present
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/theocrats.htm
The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
[and to join the discussion group for the above site and/or Separation of
Church and State in general, listed below]
HRSepCnS · Hampton Roads [Virginia] SepChurch&State
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HRSepCnS/
[Its not just Hampton Roads folks who are members, there are members from
all over the U.S. and a couple from overseas as well]
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.. . . You can't understand a phrase such as "Congress shall make no law
respecting an establishment of religion" by syllogistic reasoning. Words
take their meaning from social as well as textual contexts, which is why "a
page of history is worth a volume of logic." New York Trust Co. v. Eisner,
256 U.S. 345, 349, 41 S.Ct. 506, 507, 65 L.Ed. 963 (1921) (Holmes, J.).
Sherman v. Community Consol. Dist. 21, 980 F.2d 437, 445 (7th Cir. 1992)
.. . .
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THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLE:
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
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