| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Kevin Alfred Strom" |
| Date: |
02 Mar 2004 10:23:02 AM |
| Object: |
Jesus and the ADL |
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=2277
Jesus and the ADL
Opinion; Posted on: 2004-03-01 11:18:50 [ Printer friendly ]
by Irmin Vinson
Are Jews today responsible for the Crucifixion of Jesus two thousand
years ago? An ABC News poll indicated that fewer than one in ten
Americans believe that they are. Were Jews two thousand years ago
responsible for the Crucifixion of Jesus? A recent poll by the
Jewish Anti-Defamation League (ADL) indicates that one in four
Americans believe that they were. "It is troubling," says Abraham
Foxman, the ADL's National Director, "that so many Americans already
accept the notion of Jewish guilt. We are concerned that Mr.
Gibson's film -- with its unambiguous blaming of the Jews -- will
not only reinforce those views, but could exacerbate the problem by
convincing even more people that his version of the story of the
Crucifixion is Gospel truth." (A link to the ADL press release
appears below.)
The two questions are, of course, significantly different. Belief in
Jewish guilt today for an event two thousand years ago is
irrational, assuming a magical transmission of acquired collective
culpability over many generations. On the other hand, belief in
historical Jewish complicity in the Crucifixion is tantamount to
belief in the accuracy of the New Testament, where crucial Jewish
involvement in the Messiah's death is amply documented.
"He came unto his own," the evangelist John wrote, "and his own
received him not" (John 1.11). The nascent Christian Church, though
comprised largely of Jews, believed that their anti-Christian
compatriots had engineered Christ's execution, and Christian writers
recorded that belief for posterity; see especially 1 Thessalonians
2.14-16, which belongs to one of the earliest Christian texts,
written independently of the gospel passion stories. In the gospels
themselves Jewish leaders work for Jesus' death, the Sanhedrin
decides his fate, the Roman prefect Pontius Pilate reluctantly
complies, a Jewish mob accepts guilt for the imminent deicide
(Matthew 27.25), and Roman soldiers torment the Christian Son of God
before crucifying him.
That sequence of events has been central to Christianity for two
millennia. It is corroborated in large measure by the ancient Jewish
historian Josephus (Antiquities of the Jews 18.3) and even by the
Talmud, and it provides the basic plot for Mel Gibson's Passion of
the Christ, the film which prompted both opinion polls. Gibson could
honestly answer "no" to the first question, and he has done so
regularly. But he has been reluctant to deny the historicity of the
New Testament, and he has drawn angry criticism as a result. "The
Jews' real complaint," as he has correctly pointed out, "isn't with
my film but with the gospels."
The second question -- the ADL's question -- could be rephrased: Do
you believe the New Testament account of the Crucifixion? That was
what the ADL were really asking. They were disappointed with the
meager results from the previous ABC poll, and their own question
was clearly designed to increase the number of respondents who would
give the "wrong" answer, thus falling into the category
"anti-Semite." 39% of Americans define themselves as born-again
Christians, committed to the bible's literal inerrancy, so the only
real surprise from the ADL poll is the unexpectedly low number who
unwittingly characterized themselves as anti-Semitic. If you've read
the New Testament and if you believe that its account of Christ's
final days is more or less true, then (according to the ADL) you
represent a troubling social problem. You have joined the ranks of
irrational anti-Semites. Your religious beliefs require
restructuring and your scriptures must be drastically rewritten to
prevent others from succumbing to your error.
The ADL were familiar with the ABC poll, which they refer to in
their press release. They asked a much different question in order
to generate artificially a larger number of Christian anti-Semites.
Conservative Christians should ask themselves why a major Jewish
organization would define anti-Semitism so broadly that anyone who
believes in the historical accuracy of the gospels would fail their
test. Why would the ADL define belief in the New Testament, which
most Christians consider a divinely inspired document, as troubling
evidence of anti-Semitism?
Part of the answer lies in the character of minority politics. For
all minority activists the best kind of racial hatred is a racial
hatred you can falsely prove without having to experience the
painful consequences that would occur if the hatred were genuine.
For partisans of Black political causes the dragging death of James
Byrd was the best evidence of alleged White racial hatred because it
was so unrepresentative; most interracial crime, as all readers of
National Vanguard know, is Black-on-White. From the propaganda
onslaught surrounding Byrd's death Black political activists
acquired false proof of widespread White "racism" without having to
endure the effects of actual racial hatred. If Byrd's killers were
indeed representative of a substantial proportion of Euro-Americans,
life for Blacks would quickly become unpleasant. Since most Whites
are non-racialist, proving White "racism" by such a wildly
unrepresentative interracial crime conferred on Blacks the political
benefits of vicarious victimhood, free from even the threat of any
real victimization.
The ADL poll reflects a similar strategy and relies on a similar
passivity in the people they are attempting to malign. The charge of
anti-Semitism is potentially so devastating today precisely because
the number of Whites who oppose Jewish power is, unfortunately, so
low. The certainty that anti-Semitism is not only scarce but also
widely reviled motivates Jewish attempts to manufacture bogus
evidence of it and to expand the range of beliefs the label
includes. We would find such calculated deception degrading; Jewish
organizations think it's simply clever politics.
It is perfectly possible for a Christian to believe that Jews killed
Jesus two thousand years ago and still have nothing but warm
feelings for Jews today. Christians who accept the bible's
historical inerrancy are, as a matter of undoubted fact, the
strongest supporters of Jews. Most are ardent Zionists, and most
believe, wrongly but sincerely, that Christianity identifies Jews as
God's Chosen People (cf. Galatians 3.28-29). The ADL have
consciously defined their most devoted admirers as though they were
their worst enemies, secure in the knowledge that few of them will
object. Pat Robertson will not renounce his Likudnik Zionism and his
servile philo-Semitism just because the ADL has in effect called him
an anti-Semite.
Dr. Pierce once described the Jews as gamblers, never satisfied with
success, always looking for risky new victories. The ADL's recent
polling legerdemain is a minor case in point. A reasonable Jew would
be content with the routine repudiations of collective Jewish guilt
for Christ's death that now flow steadily from all mainstream
Christian spokesmen, including Mel Gibson. But the Jewish gamblers
at the ADL want much more: They want Christians to rewrite the New
Testament, and they want them to feel guilty that they ever believed
it in the first place.
ADL Press Release:
http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASUS_12/4454_12.htm
Suppressed AJC Article on Jesus in the Talmud:
http://www.rense.com/general43/jesus.htm
Gibson, Jesus, and the Jews:
http://library.flawlesslogic.com/passion.htm
Source: Author
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=2277
--
Kevin Alfred Strom.
News: http://www.nationalvanguard.org/
The Works of R. P. Oliver: http://www.revilo-oliver.com
Personal site: http://www.kevin-strom.com
.
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| User: "Dirk Bruere at Neopax" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus and the ADL |
02 Mar 2004 10:34:53 AM |
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|
"Kevin Alfred Strom" <kevin.strom@revilo-oliver.com> wrote in message
news:4044B4E6.DC6FA72A@revilo-oliver.com...
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=2277
Jesus and the ADL
Opinion; Posted on: 2004-03-01 11:18:50 [ Printer friendly ]
by Irmin Vinson
Are Jews today responsible for the Crucifixion of Jesus two thousand
years ago? An ABC News poll indicated that fewer than one in ten
Americans believe that they are. Were Jews two thousand years ago
Surely that should be 'as many as one in ten'.
That so many people believe the above is an amazing stat.
--
Dirk
The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millennium
http://www.theconsensus.org
.
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| User: "Wotan" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus and the ADL |
02 Mar 2004 02:23:48 PM |
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"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" <dirk@neopax.com> wrote in message
news:c22d3f$1oq0d6$1@ID-120108.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Kevin Alfred Strom" <kevin.strom@revilo-oliver.com> wrote in
message
news:4044B4E6.DC6FA72A@revilo-oliver.com...
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=2277
Jesus and the ADL
Opinion; Posted on: 2004-03-01 11:18:50 [ Printer friendly ]
by Irmin Vinson
Are Jews today responsible for the Crucifixion of Jesus two
thousand
years ago? An ABC News poll indicated that fewer than one in ten
Americans believe that they are. Were Jews two thousand years ago
Surely that should be 'as many as one in ten'.
That so many people believe the above is an amazing stat.
Like all American televison networks, ABC is Jewish controlled
and I find it hard to believe their claim that it is as little as one
in 10.
.
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| User: "Sara Brum" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus and the ADL |
02 Mar 2004 10:58:33 AM |
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"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" <dirk@neopax.com> wrote in message
news:c22d3f$1oq0d6$1@ID-120108.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Kevin Alfred Strom" <kevin.strom@revilo-oliver.com> wrote in message
news:4044B4E6.DC6FA72A@revilo-oliver.com...
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=2277
Jesus and the ADL
Opinion; Posted on: 2004-03-01 11:18:50 [ Printer friendly ]
by Irmin Vinson
Are Jews today responsible for the Crucifixion of Jesus two thousand
years ago? An ABC News poll indicated that fewer than one in ten
Americans believe that they are. Were Jews two thousand years ago
Surely that should be 'as many as one in ten'.
That so many people believe the above is an amazing stat.
Is it any more astonishing than the concept of original sin?
.
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| User: "Dirk Bruere at Neopax" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus and the ADL |
02 Mar 2004 11:01:02 AM |
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"Sara Brum" <sarabrum@medulla.com> wrote in message
news:c22eh2$1odu2m$1@ID-216353.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" <dirk@neopax.com> wrote in message
news:c22d3f$1oq0d6$1@ID-120108.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Kevin Alfred Strom" <kevin.strom@revilo-oliver.com> wrote in message
news:4044B4E6.DC6FA72A@revilo-oliver.com...
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=2277
Jesus and the ADL
Opinion; Posted on: 2004-03-01 11:18:50 [ Printer friendly ]
by Irmin Vinson
Are Jews today responsible for the Crucifixion of Jesus two thousand
years ago? An ABC News poll indicated that fewer than one in ten
Americans believe that they are. Were Jews two thousand years ago
Surely that should be 'as many as one in ten'.
That so many people believe the above is an amazing stat.
Is it any more astonishing than the concept of original sin?
Probably not, but 'original sin' is a very abstract concept in comparison.
--
Dirk
The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millennium
http://www.theconsensus.org
.
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| User: "Slade Farney" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus and the ADL |
04 Mar 2004 01:29:14 AM |
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"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" <dirk@neopax.com> wrote in message news:<c22ekh$1otcps$1@ID-120108.news.uni-berlin.de>...
"Sara Brum" <sarabrum@medulla.com> wrote in message
news:c22eh2$1odu2m$1@ID-216353.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" <dirk@neopax.com> wrote in message
news:c22d3f$1oq0d6$1@ID-120108.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Kevin Alfred Strom" <kevin.strom@revilo-oliver.com> wrote in message
news:4044B4E6.DC6FA72A@revilo-oliver.com...
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=2277
Jesus and the ADL
Opinion; Posted on: 2004-03-01 11:18:50 [ Printer friendly ]
by Irmin Vinson
Are Jews today responsible for the Crucifixion of Jesus two thousand
years ago? An ABC News poll indicated that fewer than one in ten
Americans believe that they are. Were Jews two thousand years ago
Surely that should be 'as many as one in ten'.
That so many people believe the above is an amazing stat.
Nine out of ten Jews believe all modern Germans are responsible for
the Holocaust. That is why the Jews keep suing the living Germans and
corporations.
Some forgive and forget. And some don't.
--Slade
.
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| User: "Brian King" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus and the ADL |
04 Mar 2004 02:40:24 AM |
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"Slade Farney" <sfarney@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:abe991f.0403032329.608d7f8d@posting.google.com...
"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" <dirk@neopax.com> wrote in message
news:<c22ekh$1otcps$1@ID-120108.news.uni-berlin.de>...
"Sara Brum" <sarabrum@medulla.com> wrote in message
news:c22eh2$1odu2m$1@ID-216353.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" <dirk@neopax.com> wrote in message
news:c22d3f$1oq0d6$1@ID-120108.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Kevin Alfred Strom" <kevin.strom@revilo-oliver.com> wrote in
message
news:4044B4E6.DC6FA72A@revilo-oliver.com...
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=2277
Jesus and the ADL
Opinion; Posted on: 2004-03-01 11:18:50 [ Printer friendly ]
by Irmin Vinson
Are Jews today responsible for the Crucifixion of Jesus two
thousand
years ago? An ABC News poll indicated that fewer than one in ten
Americans believe that they are. Were Jews two thousand years ago
Surely that should be 'as many as one in ten'.
That so many people believe the above is an amazing stat.
Nine out of ten Jews believe all modern Germans are responsible for
the Holocaust. That is why the Jews keep suing the living Germans and
corporations.
Some forgive and forget. And some don't.
--Slade
My Doctors Jewish and he "claims" that most of his friends lost relatives
during the Holocaust (he's 55), so did he.
I don't think that he's "claiming". I've known him as a friend for 16
years, his Dad is 87 and survived the camps.
If anyone comes to Toronto as a refugee, it's likely that he'll be the guy
who will examine them and document their torture wounds. He doesn't do that
to get points. He's not a liar.
He's forgiven, he's very open to me as a physician and a friend. I have
issues with people who just read ***** written by knobs who denigrate what
him and his friends parents (most of whom don't exist anymore because of the
Nazi's) are about.
I don't see a Zog conspiracy. I just see someone who's a great immigrant to
our country and has helped many that I know, including me.
Make up your own mind.
.
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| User: "Slade Farney" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus and the ADL |
07 Mar 2004 02:00:15 AM |
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"Brian King" <mallard3959@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<c26q8h$1o9afi$1@ID-15498.news.uni-berlin.de>...
"Slade Farney" <sfarney@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:abe991f.0403032329.608d7f8d@posting.google.com...
"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" <dirk@neopax.com> wrote in message
news:<c22ekh$1otcps$1@ID-120108.news.uni-berlin.de>...
"Sara Brum" <sarabrum@medulla.com> wrote in message
news:c22eh2$1odu2m$1@ID-216353.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" <dirk@neopax.com> wrote in message
news:c22d3f$1oq0d6$1@ID-120108.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Kevin Alfred Strom" <kevin.strom@revilo-oliver.com> wrote in
Jesus and the ADL
Opinion; Posted on: 2004-03-01 11:18:50 [ Printer friendly ]
by Irmin Vinson
Are Jews today responsible for the Crucifixion of Jesus two
thousand
years ago? An ABC News poll indicated that fewer than one in ten
Americans believe that they are. Were Jews two thousand years ago
Surely that should be 'as many as one in ten'.
That so many people believe the above is an amazing stat.
Nine out of ten Jews believe all modern Germans are responsible for
the Holocaust. That is why the Jews keep suing the living Germans and
corporations.
Some forgive and forget. And some don't.
--Slade
My Doctors Jewish and he "claims" that most of his friends lost relatives
during the Holocaust (he's 55), so did he.
I don't think that he's "claiming". I've known him as a friend for 16
years, his Dad is 87 and survived the camps.
If anyone comes to Toronto as a refugee, it's likely that he'll be the guy
who will examine them and document their torture wounds. He doesn't do that
to get points. He's not a liar.
He's forgiven, he's very open to me as a physician and a friend. I have
issues with people who just read ***** written by knobs who denigrate what
him and his friends parents (most of whom don't exist anymore because of the
Nazi's) are about.
I don't see a Zog conspiracy. I just see someone who's a great immigrant to
our country and has helped many that I know, including me.
Make up your own mind.
Your story is of no consequence. People all over the world have
suffered more -- South and North American aboriginal tribes were
exterminated, Ukrainians were starved by the millions, Russians were
tortured and killed by the millions, Chinese were massacred by the
tens of millions, Vietnamese were napalmed, Japanese were A-bombed,
Germans were starved and tortured long after the war was over, Iraq
had much of their country poisoned with depleted uranium, Ukrainians
were also poisoned with Chernobyl; the Palestinians have endured two
generations of forced emigration, torture, selective assassination and
oppression ...
The Holocaust is ancient history. Get over it. Get on with real life
and stop pretending you are some special victims and the Germans are
some special villains.
--Slade
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| User: "Iskandar Baharuddin" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus and the ADL |
04 Mar 2004 01:46:15 AM |
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"Slade Farney" <sfarney@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:abe991f.0403032329.608d7f8d@posting.google.com...
| "Dirk Bruere at Neopax" <dirk@neopax.com> wrote in message
news:<c22ekh$1otcps$1@ID-120108.news.uni-berlin.de>...
| > "Sara Brum" <sarabrum@medulla.com> wrote in message
| > news:c22eh2$1odu2m$1@ID-216353.news.uni-berlin.de...
| > > "Dirk Bruere at Neopax" <dirk@neopax.com> wrote in
message
| > > news:c22d3f$1oq0d6$1@ID-120108.news.uni-berlin.de...
| > > >
| > > >
| > > > "Kevin Alfred Strom" <kevin.strom@revilo-oliver.com>
wrote in message
| > > > news:4044B4E6.DC6FA72A@revilo-oliver.com...
| > > > > http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=2277
| > > > >
| > > > > Jesus and the ADL
| > > > > Opinion; Posted on: 2004-03-01 11:18:50 [ Printer
friendly ]
| > > > >
| > > > > by Irmin Vinson
| > > > >
| > > > > Are Jews today responsible for the Crucifixion of
Jesus two thousand
| > > > > years ago? An ABC News poll indicated that fewer
than one in ten
| > > > > Americans believe that they are. Were Jews two
thousand years ago
| > > >
| > > > Surely that should be 'as many as one in ten'.
| > > > That so many people believe the above is an amazing
stat.
|
| Nine out of ten Jews believe all modern Germans are
responsible for
| the Holocaust. That is why the Jews keep suing the living
Germans and
| corporations.
|
| Some forgive and forget. And some don't.
|
| --Slade
In another ten or fifteen years they will all be dead.
Except the corporations, of course.
Izzy
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| User: "Tiny Human Ferret" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus and the ADL |
06 Mar 2004 06:21:35 PM |
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Slade Farney wrote:
"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" <dirk@neopax.com> wrote in message news:<c22ekh$1otcps$1@ID-120108.news.uni-berlin.de>...
"Sara Brum" <sarabrum@medulla.com> wrote in message
news:c22eh2$1odu2m$1@ID-216353.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" <dirk@neopax.com> wrote in message
news:c22d3f$1oq0d6$1@ID-120108.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Kevin Alfred Strom" <kevin.strom@revilo-oliver.com> wrote in message
news:4044B4E6.DC6FA72A@revilo-oliver.com...
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=2277
Jesus and the ADL
Opinion; Posted on: 2004-03-01 11:18:50 [ Printer friendly ]
by Irmin Vinson
Are Jews today responsible for the Crucifixion of Jesus two thousand
years ago? An ABC News poll indicated that fewer than one in ten
Americans believe that they are. Were Jews two thousand years ago
Surely that should be 'as many as one in ten'.
That so many people believe the above is an amazing stat.
Nine out of ten Jews believe all modern Germans are responsible for
the Holocaust. That is why the Jews keep suing the living Germans and
corporations.
Ah, yet another pile of anti-semitic crap.
But on the other hand, I had occasion to tour a schul the other day, and
one of the children called me a "bloodsucker".
This annoys me no end, as after all I may be germanic, but I am not one
of the Germans who ran the concentration camps, I am the son of one of
the german-Americans who kicked the living ***** out of the Third Reich
and set the jews free.
I don't like being repaid this way for my father's delivery of liberty
and justice, him and the other hundreds of thousands of german-Americans
who kicked Nazi ***** and were damn proud to do so.
Some forgive and forget. And some don't.
I guess that being the victim of a genocide only makes you want to start
one. Of course, killing off everyone related to the majority ethnic of
the nation that fought its distant cousins so that you could be free,
well, I guess that will go down in history and add to the reputation.
and I don't expect we'll ever get the thank you or the apology that's
deserved.
--
The incapacity of a weak and distracted government may
often assume the appearance, and produce the effects,
of a treasonable correspondence with the public enemy.
--Gibbon, "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire"
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| User: "Truth_Is_A_Virus" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus and the ADL |
02 Mar 2004 06:38:23 PM |
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there is one word to describe all those jews on TV, 'anti-christ'.
Just like Mel says, they got a problem with Jesus. In a word, they
are 'anti-christ'
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| User: "Michelle Malkin" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus and the ADL |
02 Mar 2004 10:25:00 PM |
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"Truth_Is_A_Virus" <powerful_important_authoritative@yahoo.com> wrote in
message news:8ca2041e.0403021638.6c3613e5@posting.google.com...
there is one word to describe all those jews on TV, 'anti-christ'.
Just like Mel says, they got a problem with Jesus. In a word, they
are 'anti-christ'
Stupid crossposting troll. PLONK!
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| User: "Slade Farney" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus and the ADL |
03 Mar 2004 12:54:32 AM |
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"Sara Brum" <sarabrum@medulla.com> wrote in message news:<c22eh2$1odu2m$1@ID-216353.news.uni-berlin.de>...
"Dirk Bruere at Neopax" <dirk@neopax.com> wrote in message
news:c22d3f$1oq0d6$1@ID-120108.news.uni-berlin.de...
"Kevin Alfred Strom" <kevin.strom@revilo-oliver.com> wrote in message
news:4044B4E6.DC6FA72A@revilo-oliver.com...
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=2277
Jesus and the ADL
Opinion; Posted on: 2004-03-01 11:18:50 [ Printer friendly ]
by Irmin Vinson
Are Jews today responsible for the Crucifixion of Jesus two thousand
years ago? An ABC News poll indicated that fewer than one in ten
Americans believe that they are. Were Jews two thousand years ago
Surely that should be 'as many as one in ten'.
That so many people believe the above is an amazing stat.
Is it any more astonishing than the concept of original sin?
Is it any more astonishing than the story about 6,000,000 harmless
loveable peasants baked in an oven because they had funny noses?
--Slade
.
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| User: "Wotan" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus and the ADL |
02 Mar 2004 02:22:00 PM |
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"Kevin Alfred Strom" <kevin.strom@revilo-oliver.com> wrote in message
news:4044B4E6.DC6FA72A@revilo-oliver.com...
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=2277
Jesus and the ADL
Opinion; Posted on: 2004-03-01 11:18:50 [ Printer friendly ]
by Irmin Vinson
Are Jews today responsible for the Crucifixion of Jesus two thousand
years ago? An ABC News poll indicated that fewer than one in ten
Americans believe that they are. Were Jews two thousand years ago
responsible for the Crucifixion of Jesus? A recent poll by the
Jewish Anti-Defamation League (ADL) indicates that one in four
Americans believe that they were. "It is troubling," says Abraham
Foxman, the ADL's National Director, "that so many Americans already
accept the notion of Jewish guilt. We are concerned that Mr.
Gibson's film -- with its unambiguous blaming of the Jews -- will
not only reinforce those views, but could exacerbate the problem by
convincing even more people that his version of the story of the
Crucifixion is Gospel truth." (A link to the ADL press release
appears below.)
The two questions are, of course, significantly different. Belief in
Jewish guilt today for an event two thousand years ago is
irrational,
But belief in their responsibility for the continued slaughter of
Palestinians today is perfectly rational - being a matter of current
and incontroversible evidence - on film !
To say nothing of their slaughter of 20 million Russian Christians
under the communist regime, which they invented and controlled.
(Marx, Lenin and Trotsky were all Jews.)
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| User: "tim gueguen" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus and the ADL |
02 Mar 2004 04:51:27 PM |
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"Wotan" <Wotan@Valhalla.net> wrote in message news:4044ec08@212.67.96.135...
To say nothing of their slaughter of 20 million Russian Christians
under the communist regime, which they invented and controlled.
(Marx, Lenin and Trotsky were all Jews.)
Marx was a German who was long dead by the time the Russian Revolution
occured. Perhaps you can tell us Mr. Irrational why Marx's Jewish ancestory
is more important than his Germaness. After all Marx wasn't religious and
certainly did not follow Judaism, while his parents were converts to
Lutheranism. His intellectual partner Friedrich Engels was also a German.
Marx was influenced by German philosophers like Hegel. It was the Imperial
German government who in WW1 who helped Lenin(and speaking of Lenin, your
proof he was Jewish is?) return back to Russia to stir up trouble. So how
come we don't here you lot ranting and raving about Communism being the
fault of the Germans?
tim gueguen 101867
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| User: "yp11" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus and the ADL |
02 Mar 2004 06:42:31 PM |
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It is undeniable that Jews were responsible for the crucifixion of
Jesus. Pontius Pilate offered to crucify another condemned criminal
instead of Jesus, and the Jewish crowd shouted, " No spare the
criminal and crucify Jesus".
However, had Jesus not been crucified, there would be no Christianity.
Thus the Jews are also directly responsible for bringing Christianity
into being.
On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:23:02 -0500, Kevin Alfred Strom
<kevin.strom@revilo-oliver.com> wrote:
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=2277
Jesus and the ADL
Opinion; Posted on: 2004-03-01 11:18:50 [ Printer friendly ]
by Irmin Vinson
Are Jews today responsible for the Crucifixion of Jesus two thousand
years ago? An ABC News poll indicated that fewer than one in ten
Americans believe that they are. Were Jews two thousand years ago
responsible for the Crucifixion of Jesus? A recent poll by the
Jewish Anti-Defamation League (ADL) indicates that one in four
Americans believe that they were. "It is troubling," says Abraham
Foxman, the ADL's National Director, "that so many Americans already
accept the notion of Jewish guilt. We are concerned that Mr.
Gibson's film -- with its unambiguous blaming of the Jews -- will
not only reinforce those views, but could exacerbate the problem by
convincing even more people that his version of the story of the
Crucifixion is Gospel truth." (A link to the ADL press release
appears below.)
The two questions are, of course, significantly different. Belief in
Jewish guilt today for an event two thousand years ago is
irrational, assuming a magical transmission of acquired collective
culpability over many generations. On the other hand, belief in
historical Jewish complicity in the Crucifixion is tantamount to
belief in the accuracy of the New Testament, where crucial Jewish
involvement in the Messiah's death is amply documented.
"He came unto his own," the evangelist John wrote, "and his own
received him not" (John 1.11). The nascent Christian Church, though
comprised largely of Jews, believed that their anti-Christian
compatriots had engineered Christ's execution, and Christian writers
recorded that belief for posterity; see especially 1 Thessalonians
2.14-16, which belongs to one of the earliest Christian texts,
written independently of the gospel passion stories. In the gospels
themselves Jewish leaders work for Jesus' death, the Sanhedrin
decides his fate, the Roman prefect Pontius Pilate reluctantly
complies, a Jewish mob accepts guilt for the imminent deicide
(Matthew 27.25), and Roman soldiers torment the Christian Son of God
before crucifying him.
That sequence of events has been central to Christianity for two
millennia. It is corroborated in large measure by the ancient Jewish
historian Josephus (Antiquities of the Jews 18.3) and even by the
Talmud, and it provides the basic plot for Mel Gibson's Passion of
the Christ, the film which prompted both opinion polls. Gibson could
honestly answer "no" to the first question, and he has done so
regularly. But he has been reluctant to deny the historicity of the
New Testament, and he has drawn angry criticism as a result. "The
Jews' real complaint," as he has correctly pointed out, "isn't with
my film but with the gospels."
The second question -- the ADL's question -- could be rephrased: Do
you believe the New Testament account of the Crucifixion? That was
what the ADL were really asking. They were disappointed with the
meager results from the previous ABC poll, and their own question
was clearly designed to increase the number of respondents who would
give the "wrong" answer, thus falling into the category
"anti-Semite." 39% of Americans define themselves as born-again
Christians, committed to the bible's literal inerrancy, so the only
real surprise from the ADL poll is the unexpectedly low number who
unwittingly characterized themselves as anti-Semitic. If you've read
the New Testament and if you believe that its account of Christ's
final days is more or less true, then (according to the ADL) you
represent a troubling social problem. You have joined the ranks of
irrational anti-Semites. Your religious beliefs require
restructuring and your scriptures must be drastically rewritten to
prevent others from succumbing to your error.
The ADL were familiar with the ABC poll, which they refer to in
their press release. They asked a much different question in order
to generate artificially a larger number of Christian anti-Semites.
Conservative Christians should ask themselves why a major Jewish
organization would define anti-Semitism so broadly that anyone who
believes in the historical accuracy of the gospels would fail their
test. Why would the ADL define belief in the New Testament, which
most Christians consider a divinely inspired document, as troubling
evidence of anti-Semitism?
Part of the answer lies in the character of minority politics. For
all minority activists the best kind of racial hatred is a racial
hatred you can falsely prove without having to experience the
painful consequences that would occur if the hatred were genuine.
For partisans of Black political causes the dragging death of James
Byrd was the best evidence of alleged White racial hatred because it
was so unrepresentative; most interracial crime, as all readers of
National Vanguard know, is Black-on-White. From the propaganda
onslaught surrounding Byrd's death Black political activists
acquired false proof of widespread White "racism" without having to
endure the effects of actual racial hatred. If Byrd's killers were
indeed representative of a substantial proportion of Euro-Americans,
life for Blacks would quickly become unpleasant. Since most Whites
are non-racialist, proving White "racism" by such a wildly
unrepresentative interracial crime conferred on Blacks the political
benefits of vicarious victimhood, free from even the threat of any
real victimization.
The ADL poll reflects a similar strategy and relies on a similar
passivity in the people they are attempting to malign. The charge of
anti-Semitism is potentially so devastating today precisely because
the number of Whites who oppose Jewish power is, unfortunately, so
low. The certainty that anti-Semitism is not only scarce but also
widely reviled motivates Jewish attempts to manufacture bogus
evidence of it and to expand the range of beliefs the label
includes. We would find such calculated deception degrading; Jewish
organizations think it's simply clever politics.
It is perfectly possible for a Christian to believe that Jews killed
Jesus two thousand years ago and still have nothing but warm
feelings for Jews today. Christians who accept the bible's
historical inerrancy are, as a matter of undoubted fact, the
strongest supporters of Jews. Most are ardent Zionists, and most
believe, wrongly but sincerely, that Christianity identifies Jews as
God's Chosen People (cf. Galatians 3.28-29). The ADL have
consciously defined their most devoted admirers as though they were
their worst enemies, secure in the knowledge that few of them will
object. Pat Robertson will not renounce his Likudnik Zionism and his
servile philo-Semitism just because the ADL has in effect called him
an anti-Semite.
Dr. Pierce once described the Jews as gamblers, never satisfied with
success, always looking for risky new victories. The ADL's recent
polling legerdemain is a minor case in point. A reasonable Jew would
be content with the routine repudiations of collective Jewish guilt
for Christ's death that now flow steadily from all mainstream
Christian spokesmen, including Mel Gibson. But the Jewish gamblers
at the ADL want much more: They want Christians to rewrite the New
Testament, and they want them to feel guilty that they ever believed
it in the first place.
ADL Press Release:
http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASUS_12/4454_12.htm
Suppressed AJC Article on Jesus in the Talmud:
http://www.rense.com/general43/jesus.htm
Gibson, Jesus, and the Jews:
http://library.flawlesslogic.com/passion.htm
Source: Author
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=2277
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| User: "Stranger" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus and the ADL |
02 Mar 2004 07:45:11 PM |
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"yp11" <yp11@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:k5aa40t3blg718eosgl5dinl74jfa42ofp@4ax.com...
It is undeniable that Jews were responsible for the crucifixion of
Jesus. Pontius Pilate offered to crucify another condemned criminal
instead of Jesus, and the Jewish crowd shouted, " No spare the
criminal and crucify Jesus".
bla bla bla, fairy tails.
However, had Jesus not been crucified, there would be no Christianity.
Thus the Jews are also directly responsible for bringing Christianity
into being.
I think it took anti-jewish leaders that made xtian religioun, how else
would they need 60 books written before them, to make a new religioun based
on jebus? This all may have been done in a hurry by romans.
-Stranger
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| User: "Slade Farney" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus and the ADL |
03 Mar 2004 12:51:28 AM |
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"Stranger" <atheism@xs4all.nl> wrote in message news:<404534c0$0$560$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>...
"yp11" <yp11@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:k5aa40t3blg718eosgl5dinl74jfa42ofp@4ax.com...
It is undeniable that Jews were responsible for the crucifixion of
Jesus. Pontius Pilate offered to crucify another condemned criminal
instead of Jesus, and the Jewish crowd shouted, "No spare the
criminal and crucify Jesus".
bla bla bla, fairy tails.
-- Ruben shreaked in denial.
However, had Jesus not been crucified, there would be no Christianity.
Thus the Jews are also directly responsible for bringing Christianity
into being.
Had there been no Pharisees to kick in the nuts every other day, Jesus
might not have scored so high with the oppressed masses. So you see,
the Pharisees were very much responsible for Christianity.
Jesus must really have enjoyed that part of his ministry. I get kind
of a kick out it myself. Whooee! Another Pharisee doubles up with
embarrassment and barfs on the road in front of a hundred onlookers.
Do it again, Ruben -- say something stupid.
--Slade
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| User: "Michelle Malkin" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus and the ADL |
02 Mar 2004 10:26:59 PM |
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"yp11" <yp11@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:k5aa40t3blg718eosgl5dinl74jfa42ofp@4ax.com...
It is undeniable that Jews were responsible for the crucifixion of
Jesus. Pontius Pilate offered to crucify another condemned criminal
instead of Jesus, and the Jewish crowd shouted, " No spare the
criminal and crucify Jesus".
However, had Jesus not been crucified, there would be no Christianity.
Thus the Jews are also directly responsible for bringing Christianity
into being.
How many names are you going to post under tonight, *****?
<PLONK!>
On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:23:02 -0500, Kevin Alfred Strom
<kevin.strom@revilo-oliver.com> wrote:
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=2277
Jesus and the ADL
Opinion; Posted on: 2004-03-01 11:18:50 [ Printer friendly ]
by Irmin Vinson
Are Jews today responsible for the Crucifixion of Jesus two thousand
years ago? An ABC News poll indicated that fewer than one in ten
Americans believe that they are. Were Jews two thousand years ago
responsible for the Crucifixion of Jesus? A recent poll by the
Jewish Anti-Defamation League (ADL) indicates that one in four
Americans believe that they were. "It is troubling," says Abraham
Foxman, the ADL's National Director, "that so many Americans already
accept the notion of Jewish guilt. We are concerned that Mr.
Gibson's film -- with its unambiguous blaming of the Jews -- will
not only reinforce those views, but could exacerbate the problem by
convincing even more people that his version of the story of the
Crucifixion is Gospel truth." (A link to the ADL press release
appears below.)
The two questions are, of course, significantly different. Belief in
Jewish guilt today for an event two thousand years ago is
irrational, assuming a magical transmission of acquired collective
culpability over many generations. On the other hand, belief in
historical Jewish complicity in the Crucifixion is tantamount to
belief in the accuracy of the New Testament, where crucial Jewish
involvement in the Messiah's death is amply documented.
"He came unto his own," the evangelist John wrote, "and his own
received him not" (John 1.11). The nascent Christian Church, though
comprised largely of Jews, believed that their anti-Christian
compatriots had engineered Christ's execution, and Christian writers
recorded that belief for posterity; see especially 1 Thessalonians
2.14-16, which belongs to one of the earliest Christian texts,
written independently of the gospel passion stories. In the gospels
themselves Jewish leaders work for Jesus' death, the Sanhedrin
decides his fate, the Roman prefect Pontius Pilate reluctantly
complies, a Jewish mob accepts guilt for the imminent deicide
(Matthew 27.25), and Roman soldiers torment the Christian Son of God
before crucifying him.
That sequence of events has been central to Christianity for two
millennia. It is corroborated in large measure by the ancient Jewish
historian Josephus (Antiquities of the Jews 18.3) and even by the
Talmud, and it provides the basic plot for Mel Gibson's Passion of
the Christ, the film which prompted both opinion polls. Gibson could
honestly answer "no" to the first question, and he has done so
regularly. But he has been reluctant to deny the historicity of the
New Testament, and he has drawn angry criticism as a result. "The
Jews' real complaint," as he has correctly pointed out, "isn't with
my film but with the gospels."
The second question -- the ADL's question -- could be rephrased: Do
you believe the New Testament account of the Crucifixion? That was
what the ADL were really asking. They were disappointed with the
meager results from the previous ABC poll, and their own question
was clearly designed to increase the number of respondents who would
give the "wrong" answer, thus falling into the category
"anti-Semite." 39% of Americans define themselves as born-again
Christians, committed to the bible's literal inerrancy, so the only
real surprise from the ADL poll is the unexpectedly low number who
unwittingly characterized themselves as anti-Semitic. If you've read
the New Testament and if you believe that its account of Christ's
final days is more or less true, then (according to the ADL) you
represent a troubling social problem. You have joined the ranks of
irrational anti-Semites. Your religious beliefs require
restructuring and your scriptures must be drastically rewritten to
prevent others from succumbing to your error.
The ADL were familiar with the ABC poll, which they refer to in
their press release. They asked a much different question in order
to generate artificially a larger number of Christian anti-Semites.
Conservative Christians should ask themselves why a major Jewish
organization would define anti-Semitism so broadly that anyone who
believes in the historical accuracy of the gospels would fail their
test. Why would the ADL define belief in the New Testament, which
most Christians consider a divinely inspired document, as troubling
evidence of anti-Semitism?
Part of the answer lies in the character of minority politics. For
all minority activists the best kind of racial hatred is a racial
hatred you can falsely prove without having to experience the
painful consequences that would occur if the hatred were genuine.
For partisans of Black political causes the dragging death of James
Byrd was the best evidence of alleged White racial hatred because it
was so unrepresentative; most interracial crime, as all readers of
National Vanguard know, is Black-on-White. From the propaganda
onslaught surrounding Byrd's death Black political activists
acquired false proof of widespread White "racism" without having to
endure the effects of actual racial hatred. If Byrd's killers were
indeed representative of a substantial proportion of Euro-Americans,
life for Blacks would quickly become unpleasant. Since most Whites
are non-racialist, proving White "racism" by such a wildly
unrepresentative interracial crime conferred on Blacks the political
benefits of vicarious victimhood, free from even the threat of any
real victimization.
The ADL poll reflects a similar strategy and relies on a similar
passivity in the people they are attempting to malign. The charge of
anti-Semitism is potentially so devastating today precisely because
the number of Whites who oppose Jewish power is, unfortunately, so
low. The certainty that anti-Semitism is not only scarce but also
widely reviled motivates Jewish attempts to manufacture bogus
evidence of it and to expand the range of beliefs the label
includes. We would find such calculated deception degrading; Jewish
organizations think it's simply clever politics.
It is perfectly possible for a Christian to believe that Jews killed
Jesus two thousand years ago and still have nothing but warm
feelings for Jews today. Christians who accept the bible's
historical inerrancy are, as a matter of undoubted fact, the
strongest supporters of Jews. Most are ardent Zionists, and most
believe, wrongly but sincerely, that Christianity identifies Jews as
God's Chosen People (cf. Galatians 3.28-29). The ADL have
consciously defined their most devoted admirers as though they were
their worst enemies, secure in the knowledge that few of them will
object. Pat Robertson will not renounce his Likudnik Zionism and his
servile philo-Semitism just because the ADL has in effect called him
an anti-Semite.
Dr. Pierce once described the Jews as gamblers, never satisfied with
success, always looking for risky new victories. The ADL's recent
polling legerdemain is a minor case in point. A reasonable Jew would
be content with the routine repudiations of collective Jewish guilt
for Christ's death that now flow steadily from all mainstream
Christian spokesmen, including Mel Gibson. But the Jewish gamblers
at the ADL want much more: They want Christians to rewrite the New
Testament, and they want them to feel guilty that they ever believed
it in the first place.
ADL Press Release:
http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASUS_12/4454_12.htm
Suppressed AJC Article on Jesus in the Talmud:
http://www.rense.com/general43/jesus.htm
Gibson, Jesus, and the Jews:
http://library.flawlesslogic.com/passion.htm
Source: Author
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=2277
.
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| User: "whizbang" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus and the ADL |
02 Mar 2004 10:10:31 PM |
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Kevin Alfred Strom <kevin.strom@revilo-oliver.com> wrote in message news:<4044B4E6.DC6FA72A@revilo-oliver.com>...
The article presents a finely woven argument but there are a few
apparent errors. Who believes that 39% of the American people are
"born again Christians?" What makes you a born againer, realizing all
of a sudden one day that Jesus just might really have been the
Messiah? No, the term is supposed to be applied to highly religious
Christians who generally do not belong to any mainstream congregation
and had a life-changing conversion somewhere along the line. As for
people blaming the descendants of a group that they rightly or wrongly
feel did them a disservice, minorities in America do it all the time.
It is institutionalized in our country and called Affirmative Action.
In fact, you don't even have to be the descendant of slaveholders, you
just have to be white to feel the hatred of millions of racist Blacks.
Nonetheless, I couldn't help but feel the author about to say
something truly antisemitic. He came close to it with that remark
about "Jewish power" and how they have this irresistable urge to
gamble for more and more of it. I could almost hear him about to say
"those ***** Jews." Let's face it, folks, Gibson's movie has
brought out some latent antisemitism. You can think you love Jews but
when you see that movie, you may not love them quite so much for a few
days. It is a reminder that what most Jews believe can at times be
very hurtful to the things most gentiles believe. It ain't the end of
the world and it shouldn't affect the current political alliance
between Jews and Christians against fanatical Islam and its weak-kneed
supporters in Europe and Canada. Gibson's movie was well done. It
just could have been done better. There is no way, however, that you
can present the story of Jesus without indicting and alienating the
orthodox establishment of Judaism to some degree.
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