| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Freedom Fries" |
| Date: |
10 May 2005 12:38:28 PM |
| Object: |
Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
Although there is no evidence that the Jesus from 2000 years ago actually
existed you can't say the same for this guy; what a freak. No doubt he's a
redumblican.
Jesus Christ in legal battle to get license
Tuesday, May 10, 2005 Posted: 7:58 AM EDT (1158 GMT)
CHARLESTON, West Virginia (AP) -- Even Jesus Christ can't circumvent the
rules for getting a driver's license in West Virginia.
Attempts to prove his name really is Christ have led the man born as Peter
Robert Phillips Jr. through a lengthy legal battle and a recent victory in
the District of Columbia Court of Appeals.
"This all started with him expressing his faith and his respect and love for
Jesus Christ," attorney A.P. Pishevar told The Associated Press. "Now he
needs to document it for legal reasons."
Described by his attorney as a white-haired businessman in his mid-50s,
Christ is moving to West Virginia to enjoy a slower lifestyle. He bought
property near Lost River, about 100 miles west of Washington, and has a U.S.
passport, Social Security card and Washington driver's license bearing the
name Jesus Christ.
But he still falls short of West Virginia title and license transfer
requirements because his Florida birth certificate has his original name on
it and he has been unable to obtain an official name change in Washington.
"We just need official documentation that that's his name," said Doug Stump,
commissioner of the West Virginia Division of Motor Vehicles. "He will be
treated no different than anybody else."
Christ applied for the legal name change in May 2003, but it was denied by
District of Columbia Superior Court Judge Tim Murphy because "taking the
name of Jesus Christ may provoke a violent reaction or may significantly
offend people."
In his appeal, Christ's attorney argued that Phillips had changed his name
to Jesus Christ 15 years earlier, and "has been using the name since then
without incident."
The appeals court last month sent the name-change proposal back to the lower
court, saying some required hearings in the case had not been held.
Any comment from the man in the middle of this legal tussle?
"Christ is not speaking to the press at this time," Pishevar said.
.
|
|
| User: "stevea" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
10 May 2005 05:37:44 PM |
|
|
"Freedom Fries" <FrenchFriesAren'tFrench@dumbamericans.com> wrote in message
news:4280f318_1@x-privat.org...
Although there is no evidence that the Jesus from 2000 years ago actually
existed you can't say the same for this guy; what a freak. No doubt he's a
redumblican.
Jesus didn't exist? Talk about historical revisionism! And the Germans
didn't kill millions of Jews too, I suppose. What are your thoughts on the
shape of the earth?
www.zerubbabel.net
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
.
|
|
|
| User: "Witziges Rätsel" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
10 May 2005 04:42:21 PM |
|
|
Although there is no evidence that the Jesus from 2000 years ago actually
existed you can't say the same for this guy; what a freak. No doubt he's
a redumblican.
Jesus didn't exist? Talk about historical revisionism! And the Germans
didn't kill millions of Jews too, I suppose. What are your thoughts on
the shape of the earth?
So produce the evidence. Convince us that Jesus of
Nazareth existed. Hearsay is inadmissible.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Rightard Whitey" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
10 May 2005 05:30:11 PM |
|
|
Witziges Rätsel wrote:
Although there is no evidence that the Jesus from 2000 years ago actually
existed you can't say the same for this guy; what a freak. No doubt he's
a redumblican.
Jesus didn't exist? Talk about historical revisionism! And the Germans
didn't kill millions of Jews too, I suppose. What are your thoughts on
the shape of the earth?
So produce the evidence. Convince us that Jesus of
Nazareth existed. Hearsay is inadmissible.
Besides the books written by his apostles, there is no hard or third
party evedence he existed. When an Osiary was discovered in Israel was
engraved with James, Brother of Jesus, a lot of archaeologists got
excited. The osiary was found to be a fake. We also know that James,
brother or half-brother of Jesus, was thrown over the temple wall when
the Romans invaded to put down an insurrection in 70 AD.
The cross that Jesus was crucified on, was carried into battle by
crusaders. The crusaders were defeated and the cross was burned. Some of
the nails in the cross were believed to have been incorporated into the
Spear of Longius, which is supposed to have pierced the side of Jesus.
The spear was too new to have been used in a roman legion, but two of
the nails incorporated into the spear could have been made at the time
of Christ.
--
Educating rightards every day.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "John Starrett" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
10 May 2005 07:34:09 PM |
|
|
Witziges Rätsel wrote:
Although there is no evidence that the Jesus from 2000 years ago actually
existed you can't say the same for this guy; what a freak. No doubt he's
a redumblican.
Jesus didn't exist? Talk about historical revisionism! And the Germans
didn't kill millions of Jews too, I suppose. What are your thoughts on
the shape of the earth?
So produce the evidence. Convince us that Jesus of
Nazareth existed. Hearsay is inadmissible.
The same could be said of any famous historical figure then. How do you
know Alexander the Great existed?
JS
.
|
|
|
| User: "Claytons Gone Fishing With Fredo Corleone" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
11 May 2005 02:51:19 AM |
|
|
"John Starrett" <jstarret@sdc.org> wrote in message
news:WvqdneiHTfRMzxzfRVn-3w@nmt.edu...
Witziges Rätsel wrote:
Although there is no evidence that the Jesus from 2000 years ago
actually
existed you can't say the same for this guy; what a freak. No doubt
he's
a redumblican.
Jesus didn't exist? Talk about historical revisionism! And the Germans
didn't kill millions of Jews too, I suppose. What are your thoughts on
the shape of the earth?
So produce the evidence. Convince us that Jesus of
Nazareth existed. Hearsay is inadmissible.
The same could be said of any famous historical figure then. How do you
know Alexander the Great existed?
Contemporary evidence....which is completely lacking in the case of Jeebus!
.
|
|
|
| User: "Rob Browning" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
11 May 2005 04:36:47 PM |
|
|
On Wed, 11 May 2005 17:51:19 +1000, "Clayton's Gone Fishing With Fredo
Corleone" <cjfat@SPAMBLOCKphonymails.com> wrote:
"John Starrett" <jstarret@sdc.org> wrote in message
news:WvqdneiHTfRMzxzfRVn-3w@nmt.edu...
Witziges Rätsel wrote:
Although there is no evidence that the Jesus from 2000 years ago
actually
existed you can't say the same for this guy; what a freak. No doubt
he's
a redumblican.
Jesus didn't exist? Talk about historical revisionism! And the Germans
didn't kill millions of Jews too, I suppose. What are your thoughts on
the shape of the earth?
So produce the evidence. Convince us that Jesus of
Nazareth existed. Hearsay is inadmissible.
The same could be said of any famous historical figure then. How do you
know Alexander the Great existed?
Contemporary evidence....which is completely lacking in the case of Jeebus!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_and_textual_evidence
Though there's no conclusive proof, "completely lacking" is certainly
an exaggeration.
I'm an atheist, and even I can see that it's sillier to believe that
Jesus never existed (and was apparently some sort of made-up
conspiracy of the Apostles) than to believe that he existed, but was
not the Son of God. Occam's Razor, people.
Rob
ploovTeHSPaeMBLoKuR@charter.net
--
Owner of 2501 Netstalker Points awarded by Corwin of Amber, mainly
because Atma's just too damn attractive to get away from.
Gave 7499 Netstalker Points to Cypher because there's no such thing as
a good day on AGFF without JT bashing!
Owner of David Watson, rec.arts.anime.misc
"He looks like he'd get cut out of a Final Fantasy game for being 'too
gay.' That is like getting booed off the stage at Amateur Night at
the Apollo for being 'too black.'"
--Dr. David Thorpe, Something Awful Fashion SWAT "Ganguro Madness"
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
12 May 2005 06:53:16 AM |
|
|
In our last episode <unt4819jph7s54t3mvaepoq4dgp55dgtae@4ax.com>, Rob
Browning pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:
I'm an atheist, and even I can see that it's sillier to believe that Jesus
never existed (and was apparently some sort of made-up conspiracy of the
Apostles) than to believe that he existed, but was not the Son of God.
Occam's Razor, people.
Come on, you're telling me that no humans have ever written religious
texts about beings that don't exist?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Group website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
-- Seneca the Younger
.
|
|
|
| User: "Rob Browning" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
12 May 2005 11:25:52 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 12 May 2005 06:53:16 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In our last episode <unt4819jph7s54t3mvaepoq4dgp55dgtae@4ax.com>, Rob
Browning pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:
I'm an atheist, and even I can see that it's sillier to believe that Jesus
never existed (and was apparently some sort of made-up conspiracy of the
Apostles) than to believe that he existed, but was not the Son of God.
Occam's Razor, people.
Come on, you're telling me that no humans have ever written religious
texts about beings that don't exist?
There's a difference between writing about beings who walked the earth
"a really long time ago" and beings who walked the earth at about the
same time as you. Also between writing about deities and writing
about humans who were supposed to be divine.
Rob
ploovTeHSPaeMBLoKuR@charter.net
--
Owner of 2501 Netstalker Points awarded by Corwin of Amber, mainly
because Atma's just too damn attractive to get away from.
Gave 7499 Netstalker Points to Cypher because there's no such thing as
a good day on AGFF without JT bashing!
Owner of David Watson, rec.arts.anime.misc
"He looks like he'd get cut out of a Final Fantasy game for being 'too
gay.' That is like getting booed off the stage at Amateur Night at
the Apollo for being 'too black.'"
--Dr. David Thorpe, Something Awful Fashion SWAT "Ganguro Madness"
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
12 May 2005 02:49:44 PM |
|
|
In our last episode <dm0781pj79e799n5scemvp4f9a0dkih9eq@4ax.com>, Rob
Browning pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:
On Thu, 12 May 2005 06:53:16 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In our last episode <unt4819jph7s54t3mvaepoq4dgp55dgtae@4ax.com>, Rob
Browning pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:
I'm an atheist, and even I can see that it's sillier to believe that
Jesus never existed (and was apparently some sort of made-up conspiracy
of the Apostles) than to believe that he existed, but was not the Son
of God. Occam's Razor, people.
Come on, you're telling me that no humans have ever written religious
texts about beings that don't exist?
There's a difference between writing about beings who walked the earth "a
really long time ago" and beings who walked the earth at about the same
time as you.
So you believe the gospels were written in the third decade?
Also between writing about deities and writing about humans
who were supposed to be divine.
So Hercules was a historical figure?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Group website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
-- Seneca the Younger
.
|
|
|
| User: "Rob Browning" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
12 May 2005 08:22:44 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 12 May 2005 14:49:44 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In our last episode <dm0781pj79e799n5scemvp4f9a0dkih9eq@4ax.com>, Rob
Browning pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:
On Thu, 12 May 2005 06:53:16 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In our last episode <unt4819jph7s54t3mvaepoq4dgp55dgtae@4ax.com>, Rob
Browning pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:
I'm an atheist, and even I can see that it's sillier to believe that
Jesus never existed (and was apparently some sort of made-up conspiracy
of the Apostles) than to believe that he existed, but was not the Son
of God. Occam's Razor, people.
Come on, you're telling me that no humans have ever written religious
texts about beings that don't exist?
There's a difference between writing about beings who walked the earth "a
really long time ago" and beings who walked the earth at about the same
time as you.
So you believe the gospels were written in the third decade?
Probably not the Gospels, no. But I wasn't talking about the Gospels.
Also between writing about deities and writing about humans
who were supposed to be divine.
So Hercules was a historical figure?
Hercules was only half-human.
But seriously, the fact that there are exceptions to the rule doesn't
necessarily mean that the rule is not usually correct.
Rob
ploovTeHSPaeMBLoKuR@charter.net
--
Owner of 2501 Netstalker Points awarded by Corwin of Amber, mainly
because Atma's just too damn attractive to get away from.
Gave 7499 Netstalker Points to Cypher because there's no such thing as
a good day on AGFF without JT bashing!
Owner of David Watson, rec.arts.anime.misc
"He looks like he'd get cut out of a Final Fantasy game for being 'too
gay.' That is like getting booed off the stage at Amateur Night at
the Apollo for being 'too black.'"
--Dr. David Thorpe, Something Awful Fashion SWAT "Ganguro Madness"
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
13 May 2005 06:17:45 AM |
|
|
In our last episode <r20881hnv3etr1bnr8l03ur4ve3c8giso2@4ax.com>, Rob
Browning pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:
On Thu, 12 May 2005 14:49:44 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In our last episode <dm0781pj79e799n5scemvp4f9a0dkih9eq@4ax.com>, Rob
Browning pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:
On Thu, 12 May 2005 06:53:16 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In our last episode <unt4819jph7s54t3mvaepoq4dgp55dgtae@4ax.com>, Rob
Browning pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:
I'm an atheist, and even I can see that it's sillier to believe that
Jesus never existed (and was apparently some sort of made-up
conspiracy of the Apostles) than to believe that he existed, but was
not the Son of God. Occam's Razor, people.
Come on, you're telling me that no humans have ever written religious
texts about beings that don't exist?
There's a difference between writing about beings who walked the earth
"a really long time ago" and beings who walked the earth at about the
same time as you.
So you believe the gospels were written in the third decade?
Probably not the Gospels, no. But I wasn't talking about the Gospels.
What were you talking about?
Also between writing about deities and writing about humans who were
supposed to be divine.
So Hercules was a historical figure?
Hercules was only half-human.
But seriously, the fact that there are exceptions to the rule doesn't
necessarily mean that the rule is not usually correct.
Demigods are a dime a dozen. At what point do these "exceptions" *become
the rule?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Group website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
-- Seneca the Younger
.
|
|
|
| User: "Rob Browning" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
13 May 2005 12:44:26 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 13 May 2005 06:17:45 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In our last episode <r20881hnv3etr1bnr8l03ur4ve3c8giso2@4ax.com>, Rob
Browning pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:
On Thu, 12 May 2005 14:49:44 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In our last episode <dm0781pj79e799n5scemvp4f9a0dkih9eq@4ax.com>, Rob
Browning pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:
On Thu, 12 May 2005 06:53:16 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In our last episode <unt4819jph7s54t3mvaepoq4dgp55dgtae@4ax.com>, Rob
Browning pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:
I'm an atheist, and even I can see that it's sillier to believe that
Jesus never existed (and was apparently some sort of made-up
conspiracy of the Apostles) than to believe that he existed, but was
not the Son of God. Occam's Razor, people.
Come on, you're telling me that no humans have ever written religious
texts about beings that don't exist?
There's a difference between writing about beings who walked the earth
"a really long time ago" and beings who walked the earth at about the
same time as you.
So you believe the gospels were written in the third decade?
Probably not the Gospels, no. But I wasn't talking about the Gospels.
What were you talking about?
I had a link up there that referenced the writings of
near-contemporaries such as Tacitus. It's also indisputable fact that
Christianity existed at the time of Nero, so it couldn't have been
invented centuries after the fact. Heck, even the Gospels weren't
written that long after Christ, though they were probably written
after some of the stuff I just mentioned above.
As I said before, there's no conclusive evidence either way, but it's
kind of funny to see people who don't believe in God because of lack
of proof fall for tinfoil-hattish stuff like this.
Rob
ploovTeHSPaeMBLoKuR@charter.net
--
Owner of 2501 Netstalker Points awarded by Corwin of Amber, mainly
because Atma's just too damn attractive to get away from.
Gave 7499 Netstalker Points to Cypher because there's no such thing as
a good day on AGFF without JT bashing!
Owner of David Watson, rec.arts.anime.misc
"He looks like he'd get cut out of a Final Fantasy game for being 'too
gay.' That is like getting booed off the stage at Amateur Night at
the Apollo for being 'too black.'"
--Dr. David Thorpe, Something Awful Fashion SWAT "Ganguro Madness"
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
13 May 2005 01:47:00 PM |
|
|
In our last episode <26o981d7ah7299mubfljvc04g2lpmnu8uh@4ax.com>, Rob
Browning pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:
On Fri, 13 May 2005 06:17:45 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In our last episode <r20881hnv3etr1bnr8l03ur4ve3c8giso2@4ax.com>, Rob
Browning pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:
On Thu, 12 May 2005 14:49:44 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In our last episode <dm0781pj79e799n5scemvp4f9a0dkih9eq@4ax.com>, Rob
Browning pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:
On Thu, 12 May 2005 06:53:16 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In our last episode <unt4819jph7s54t3mvaepoq4dgp55dgtae@4ax.com>, Rob
Browning pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:
I'm an atheist, and even I can see that it's sillier to believe
that Jesus never existed (and was apparently some sort of made-up
conspiracy of the Apostles) than to believe that he existed, but
was not the Son of God. Occam's Razor, people.
Come on, you're telling me that no humans have ever written religious
texts about beings that don't exist?
There's a difference between writing about beings who walked the
earth "a really long time ago" and beings who walked the earth at
about the same time as you.
So you believe the gospels were written in the third decade?
Probably not the Gospels, no. But I wasn't talking about the Gospels.
What were you talking about?
I had a link up there that referenced the writings of near-contemporaries
such as Tacitus. It's also indisputable fact that Christianity existed at
the time of Nero, so it couldn't have been invented centuries after the
fact.
Christianity in some form did exist at the time. What's that got to do
with whether Jesus is historical?
Heck, even the Gospels weren't written that long after Christ,
though they were probably written after some of the stuff I just mentioned
above.
"Heck" isn't much of a date.
As I said before, there's no conclusive evidence either way, but it's kind
of funny to see people who don't believe in God because of lack of proof
fall for tinfoil-hattish stuff like this.
Tinfoil hat eh?
The letters of Paul are pretty much the oldest writings in Christianity.
Sit down and read them sometime and notice how easily they could be
interpreted as referring to a spiritual being that gives visions rather
than a historical figure. Notice the abysmal lack of any indication that
Paul was aware of the events and teachings contained in the Gospels.
You're telling me you are *absolutely *certain that the religion did *not
start as a belief in a "spirit" of a kind and the historical figure was a
later development?
Can you prove it?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Group website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
-- Seneca the Younger
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mondo" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
13 May 2005 05:04:42 PM |
|
|
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
In our last episode <26o981d7ah7299mubfljvc04g2lpmnu8uh@4ax.com>, Rob
Browning pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:
On Fri, 13 May 2005 06:17:45 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In our last episode <r20881hnv3etr1bnr8l03ur4ve3c8giso2@4ax.com>,
Rob
Browning pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:
On Thu, 12 May 2005 14:49:44 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In our last episode <dm0781pj79e799n5scemvp4f9a0dkih9eq@4ax.com>,
Rob
Browning pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:
On Thu, 12 May 2005 06:53:16 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In our last episode
<unt4819jph7s54t3mvaepoq4dgp55dgtae@4ax.com>, Rob
Browning pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare
proclaimed:
I'm an atheist, and even I can see that it's sillier to
believe
that Jesus never existed (and was apparently some sort of
made-up
conspiracy of the Apostles) than to believe that he existed,
but
was not the Son of God. Occam's Razor, people.
Come on, you're telling me that no humans have ever written
religious
texts about beings that don't exist?
There's a difference between writing about beings who walked
the
earth "a really long time ago" and beings who walked the earth
at
about the same time as you.
So you believe the gospels were written in the third decade?
Probably not the Gospels, no. But I wasn't talking about the
Gospels.
What were you talking about?
I had a link up there that referenced the writings of
near-contemporaries
such as Tacitus. It's also indisputable fact that Christianity
existed at
the time of Nero, so it couldn't have been invented centuries after
the
fact.
Christianity in some form did exist at the time. What's that got to
do
with whether Jesus is historical?
Heck, even the Gospels weren't written that long after Christ,
though they were probably written after some of the stuff I just
mentioned
above.
"Heck" isn't much of a date.
Huh?
As I said before, there's no conclusive evidence either way, but
it's kind
of funny to see people who don't believe in God because of lack of
proof
fall for tinfoil-hattish stuff like this.
Tinfoil hat eh?
DON'T LET HIM INTIMIDATE YOU
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Rob Browning" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
13 May 2005 11:50:17 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 13 May 2005 13:47:00 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
You're telling me you are *absolutely *certain that the religion did *not
start as a belief in a "spirit" of a kind and the historical figure was a
later development?
Can you prove it?
As I've said twice now, I'm not even close to "absolutely certain"
that Jesus was a real person. I just think that, due to the woeful
lack of evidence either side has for its claims, the idea that Jesus
was the real leader of a cult is far less extraordinary than the idea
that there was a big conspiracy among a bunch of Jews who wanted a
figurehead for a new religion.
Rob
ploovTeHSPaeMBLoKuR@charter.net
--
Owner of 2501 Netstalker Points awarded by Corwin of Amber, mainly
because Atma's just too damn attractive to get away from.
Gave 7499 Netstalker Points to Cypher because there's no such thing as
a good day on AGFF without JT bashing!
Owner of David Watson, rec.arts.anime.misc
"He looks like he'd get cut out of a Final Fantasy game for being 'too
gay.' That is like getting booed off the stage at Amateur Night at
the Apollo for being 'too black.'"
--Dr. David Thorpe, Something Awful Fashion SWAT "Ganguro Madness"
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
14 May 2005 08:57:22 AM |
|
|
In our last episode <b60b81hc6q5ekpprqqk9eaj0gif5bhhmrd@4ax.com>, Rob
Browning pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:
On Fri, 13 May 2005 13:47:00 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
You're telling me you are *absolutely *certain that the religion did *not
start as a belief in a "spirit" of a kind and the historical figure was a
later development?
Can you prove it?
As I've said twice now, I'm not even close to "absolutely certain" that
Jesus was a real person. I just think that, due to the woeful lack of
evidence either side has for its claims, the idea that Jesus was the real
leader of a cult is far less extraordinary than the idea that there was a
big conspiracy among a bunch of Jews who wanted a figurehead for a new
religion.
I'm not talking about some kind of "big conspiracy." You appear to be
assuming your conclusion. That being the "historical Jesus" was, from the
beginning, the belief of the religion. How do you know that? How do you
know the earliest Christians *meant a historical figure to begin with?
What if the original beliefs were more gnostic? A number of the early
gnostics held that Jesus was a spirit being that either had a "shadow"
body or merely "appeared" human. Even Paul "met" Jesus in some kind of
vision.
It doesn't take a "conspiracy." It merely takes years of
anthropomorphizing. And, by the way, that technique was not at all unknown
among the Jews. Or do you believe the OT figure of "wisdom" (which "says"
and "teaches" all kinds of things) was a historical figure?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Group website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
-- Seneca the Younger
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
14 May 2005 09:01:12 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 14 May 2005 00:50:17 -0400, Rob Browning
<pluvius3@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 13 May 2005 13:47:00 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
You're telling me you are *absolutely *certain that the religion did *not
start as a belief in a "spirit" of a kind and the historical figure was a
later development?
Can you prove it?
As I've said twice now, I'm not even close to "absolutely certain"
that Jesus was a real person. I just think that, due to the woeful
lack of evidence either side has for its claims, the idea that Jesus
was the real leader of a cult is far less extraordinary than the idea
that there was a big conspiracy among a bunch of Jews who wanted a
figurehead for a new religion.
It's not "either side" of anything, let alone "either side making
claims".
It is Christians insisting that we should take their unsupported and
unsupportable Jesus claims seriously when there is zip, zero, zilch,
nada reason to do so.
The only evidence within a century or more has been tampered with,
making it extremely suspect.
Stop inventing strawmen to use in bifurcation fallacies.
Rob
ploovTeHSPaeMBLoKuR@charter.net
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Nathan Montgomery" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
13 May 2005 11:39:46 PM |
|
|
Rob Browning <pluvius3@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:26o981d7ah7299mubfljvc04g2lpmnu8uh@4ax.com:
I had a link up there that referenced the writings of
near-contemporaries such as Tacitus. It's also indisputable fact that
Christianity existed at the time of Nero, so it couldn't have been
invented centuries after the fact. Heck, even the Gospels weren't
written that long after Christ, though they were probably written
after some of the stuff I just mentioned above.
As I said before, there's no conclusive evidence either way, but it's
kind of funny to see people who don't believe in God because of lack
of proof fall for tinfoil-hattish stuff like this.
I like the people who believe that Jesus was really a mushroom the best.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0340128755/102-8804737-
3914554?v=glance
--
Corwin
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mondo" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
11 May 2005 04:43:27 PM |
|
|
Rob Browning wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2005 17:51:19 +1000, "Clayton's Gone Fishing With
Fredo
Corleone" <cjfat@SPAMBLOCKphonymails.com> wrote:
"John Starrett" <jstarret@sdc.org> wrote in message
news:WvqdneiHTfRMzxzfRVn-3w@nmt.edu...
Witziges R=E4tsel wrote:
Although there is no evidence that the Jesus from 2000 years
ago
actually
existed you can't say the same for this guy; what a freak. No
doubt
he's
a redumblican.
Jesus didn't exist? Talk about historical revisionism! And the
Germans
didn't kill millions of Jews too, I suppose. What are your
thoughts on
the shape of the earth?
So produce the evidence. Convince us that Jesus of
Nazareth existed. Hearsay is inadmissible.
The same could be said of any famous historical figure then. How
do you
know Alexander the Great existed?
Contemporary evidence....which is completely lacking in the case of
Jeebus!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_and_textual_evidence
Though there's no conclusive proof, "completely lacking" is certainly
an exaggeration.
I'm an atheist, and even I can see that it's sillier to believe that
Jesus never existed (and was apparently some sort of made-up
conspiracy of the Apostles) than to believe that he existed, but was
not the Son of God. Occam's Razor, people.
that movie "Contact" sucked
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Freedom Fries" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
10 May 2005 07:37:55 PM |
|
|
"John Starrett" <jstarret@sdc.org> wrote in message
news:WvqdneiHTfRMzxzfRVn-3w@nmt.edu...
Witziges Rätsel wrote:
Although there is no evidence that the Jesus from 2000 years ago
actually
existed you can't say the same for this guy; what a freak. No doubt
he's
a redumblican.
Jesus didn't exist? Talk about historical revisionism! And the Germans
didn't kill millions of Jews too, I suppose. What are your thoughts on
the shape of the earth?
So produce the evidence. Convince us that Jesus of
Nazareth existed. Hearsay is inadmissible.
The same could be said of any famous historical figure then. How do you
know Alexander the Great existed?
Do you mean besides the existence of Alexandria in Egypt? The city he
designed that's named after him.
JS
.
|
|
|
| User: "John Starrett" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
11 May 2005 11:49:40 AM |
|
|
Freedom Fries wrote:
"John Starrett" <jstarret@sdc.org> wrote in message
news:WvqdneiHTfRMzxzfRVn-3w@nmt.edu...
Witziges Rätsel wrote:
Although there is no evidence that the Jesus from 2000 years ago
actually
existed you can't say the same for this guy; what a freak. No doubt
he's
a redumblican.
Jesus didn't exist? Talk about historical revisionism! And the Germans
didn't kill millions of Jews too, I suppose. What are your thoughts on
the shape of the earth?
So produce the evidence. Convince us that Jesus of
Nazareth existed. Hearsay is inadmissible.
The same could be said of any famous historical figure then. How do you
know Alexander the Great existed?
Do you mean besides the existence of Alexandria in Egypt? The city he
designed that's named after him.
Or so they say. What real proof do you have?
John Starrett
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Rob Browning" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
10 May 2005 09:35:48 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 10 May 2005 20:37:55 -0400, "Freedom Fries"
<FrenchFriesAren'tFrench@dumbamericans.com> wrote:
"John Starrett" <jstarret@sdc.org> wrote in message
news:WvqdneiHTfRMzxzfRVn-3w@nmt.edu...
Witziges Rätsel wrote:
Although there is no evidence that the Jesus from 2000 years ago
actually
existed you can't say the same for this guy; what a freak. No doubt
he's
a redumblican.
Jesus didn't exist? Talk about historical revisionism! And the Germans
didn't kill millions of Jews too, I suppose. What are your thoughts on
the shape of the earth?
So produce the evidence. Convince us that Jesus of
Nazareth existed. Hearsay is inadmissible.
The same could be said of any famous historical figure then. How do you
know Alexander the Great existed?
Do you mean besides the existence of Alexandria in Egypt? The city he
designed that's named after him.
Oh come on, that bait's a bit too obvious.
I predict people will bite on it anyway.
Rob (Nice to see you back)
ploovTeHSPaeMBLoKuR@charter.net
--
Owner of 2501 Netstalker Points awarded by Corwin of Amber, mainly
because Atma's just too damn attractive to get away from.
Gave 7499 Netstalker Points to Cypher because there's no such thing as
a good day on AGFF without JT bashing!
Owner of David Watson, rec.arts.anime.misc
"He looks like he'd get cut out of a Final Fantasy game for being 'too
gay.' That is like getting booed off the stage at Amateur Night at
the Apollo for being 'too black.'"
--Dr. David Thorpe, Something Awful Fashion SWAT "Ganguro Madness"
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mondo" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
11 May 2005 08:12:32 AM |
|
|
Rob Browning wrote:
On Tue, 10 May 2005 20:37:55 -0400, "Freedom Fries"
<FrenchFriesAren'tFrench@dumbamericans.com> wrote:
"John Starrett" <jstarret@sdc.org> wrote in message
news:WvqdneiHTfRMzxzfRVn-3w@nmt.edu...
Witziges R=E4tsel wrote:
Although there is no evidence that the Jesus from 2000 years
ago
actually
existed you can't say the same for this guy; what a freak. No
doubt
he's
a redumblican.
Jesus didn't exist? Talk about historical revisionism! And the
Germans
didn't kill millions of Jews too, I suppose. What are your
thoughts on
the shape of the earth?
So produce the evidence. Convince us that Jesus of
Nazareth existed. Hearsay is inadmissible.
The same could be said of any famous historical figure then. How
do you
know Alexander the Great existed?
Do you mean besides the existence of Alexandria in Egypt? The city
he
designed that's named after him.
Oh come on, that bait's a bit too obvious.
I predict people will bite on it anyway.
I once got netcopped off Newsguy for crossposting a troll to
alt.atheism. So many memories.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Rightard Whitey" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
11 May 2005 08:43:06 AM |
|
|
Mondo wrote:
Rob Browning wrote:
On Tue, 10 May 2005 20:37:55 -0400, "Freedom Fries"
<FrenchFriesAren'tFrench@dumbamericans.com> wrote:
"John Starrett" <jstarret@sdc.org> wrote in message
news:WvqdneiHTfRMzxzfRVn-3w@nmt.edu...
Witziges Rätsel wrote:
Although there is no evidence that the Jesus from 2000 years
ago
actually
existed you can't say the same for this guy; what a freak. No
doubt
he's
a redumblican.
Jesus didn't exist? Talk about historical revisionism! And the
Germans
didn't kill millions of Jews too, I suppose. What are your
thoughts on
the shape of the earth?
So produce the evidence. Convince us that Jesus of
Nazareth existed. Hearsay is inadmissible.
The same could be said of any famous historical figure then. How
do you
know Alexander the Great existed?
Do you mean besides the existence of Alexandria in Egypt? The city
he
designed that's named after him.
Oh come on, that bait's a bit too obvious.
I predict people will bite on it anyway.
I once got netcopped off Newsguy for crossposting a troll to
alt.atheism. So many memories.
There is little hard evidence that Jesus existed. We have the books his
apostles wrote and there is a lot of disagreement in those books on who
Jesus was.
Many of the books were suppressed from the Bible we read today. We don't
have a burial site, bones or the cross. We may have a couple of nails
from the cross built into the Spear of Longinus. We know the spear did
not come form the Roman era because the spear point is too large.
We know that Jesus' brother or half brother, James, was killed in 70 AD
by Jews during the Roman invasion of Israel.
--
Educating rightards every day.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "stevea" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
10 May 2005 09:03:44 PM |
|
|
I just remembered why I stopped frequenting news groups.
They are populated by demonic entities that despise truth. Only a fool
tries to reason with a devil.
Jesus is returning soon! And the One whom you deny existed said, "For by
your words you shall be justified, and by your words you shall be
condemned."
www.zerubbabel.net
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
.
|
|
|
| User: "The Great Hairy One" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
11 May 2005 04:54:35 PM |
|
|
In article <42814cd2$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>,
stevea@awesomenet.net says...
I just remembered why I stopped frequenting news groups.
But we're such nice and friendly people! Why wouldn't you want to visit
us?
They are populated by demonic entities that despise truth. Only a fool
tries to reason with a devil.
Uh, you know that devils and all that are simply just mythical creations
right? They don't actually exist.
Jesus is returning soon!
He is? Got a timetable for that? He's only nearly 2000 years late as it
is.
And the One whom you deny existed said, "For by
your words you shall be justified, and by your words you shall be
condemned."
Nah. We do good works mate. :)
Cheers,
TGHO
--
The Great Hairy One,
BAAWA all night long
SMASHing it to the masses
====================================
CEO EAC Roleplaying Division
Roleplay. Just do it.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
12 May 2005 06:51:45 AM |
|
|
In our last episode <42814cd2$1_2@spool9-west.superfeed.net>, stevea
pirouetted gracefully and with great fanfare proclaimed:
Jesus is returning soon!
Uh huh. You folks have been saying "soon" for, oh, 2,000 years now?
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Group website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
-- Seneca the Younger
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "The Great Hairy One" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
10 May 2005 04:48:45 PM |
|
|
In article <42811c88$1_2@127.0.0.1>, says...
Jesus didn't exist? Talk about historical revisionism!
Um, no. Outside of biblical references there is no evidence to support
the christian jesus-myth.
If you have something we haven't seen, post it here, and we can discuss
it.
And the Germans didn't kill millions of Jews too, I suppose.
Actually, they did, although to be strictly accurate it was the Nazi
political party, and more than just jews were slain. Homosexuals,
Gypsies, communists, catholics, the mentally ill or mentally deformed
were also targeted, and killed in very large numbers.
Note that there remains a massive amount of documentation, eye witnesses
and physical evidence to back this up.
What are your thoughts on the shape of the earth?
It's a sphere? Why do you ask?
Cheers,
TGHO
--
The Great Hairy One,
BAAWA all night long
SMASHing it to the masses
====================================
CEO EAC Roleplaying Division
Roleplay. Just do it.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
11 May 2005 02:37:15 AM |
|
|
In our last episode <42811c88$1_2@127.0.0.1>, stevea pirouetted gracefully
and with great fanfare proclaimed:
"Freedom Fries" <FrenchFriesAren'tFrench@dumbamericans.com> wrote in
message news:4280f318_1@x-privat.org...
Although there is no evidence that the Jesus from 2000 years ago
actually existed you can't say the same for this guy; what a freak. No
doubt he's a redumblican.
Jesus didn't exist? Talk about historical revisionism!
<snip>
Hardly. There's no historical evidence this "Jesus" actually existed.
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Group website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
-- Seneca the Younger
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
10 May 2005 04:48:11 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 10 May 2005 15:37:44 -0700, "stevea" <stevea@awesomenet.net>
wrote:
"Freedom Fries" <FrenchFriesAren'tFrench@dumbamericans.com> wrote in message
news:4280f318_1@x-privat.org...
Although there is no evidence that the Jesus from 2000 years ago actually
existed you can't say the same for this guy; what a freak. No doubt he's a
redumblican.
Jesus didn't exist?
There is no non-Biblical evidence for him, apart from one large and
one small passage in Josephus that have been tampered with, making
thenm unreliable.
Talk about historical revisionism!
Talk about lying theists.
And the Germans
didn't kill millions of Jews too, I suppose. What are your thoughts on the
shape of the earth?
Talk about Godwyn's law.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
11 May 2005 01:27:20 AM |
|
|
In article <4280f318_1@x-privat.org>,
"Freedom Fries" <FrenchFriesAren'tFrench@dumbamericans.com> wrote:
Although there is no evidence that the Jesus from 2000 years ago actually
existed you can't say the same for this guy; what a freak. No doubt he's a
redumblican.
Jesus Christ in legal battle to get license
Tuesday, May 10, 2005 Posted: 7:58 AM EDT (1158 GMT)
CHARLESTON, West Virginia (AP) -- Even Jesus Christ can't circumvent the
rules for getting a driver's license in West Virginia.
Attempts to prove his name really is Christ have led the man born as Peter
Shows who the Supreme Power is. Even Jeebus doesn't stand a chance with
the DMV.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Steve Knight" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ vs West Virginia |
10 May 2005 07:34:49 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 10 May 2005 13:38:28 -0400, "Freedom Fries"
<FrenchFriesAren'tFrench@dumbamericans.com> wrote:
Although there is no evidence that the Jesus from 2000 years ago actually
existed you can't say the same for this guy; what a freak. No doubt he's a
redumblican.
Jesus Christ in legal battle to get license
Tuesday, May 10, 2005 Posted: 7:58 AM EDT (1158 GMT)
If he changed his name to Mickey Mouse, Disney would sue him.
Call me Odin. How are you today?
Reminds me of the time I was in the supermarket and two kids,
holding candy bars, ran up to their Earth Momma parent replete with
dread locks, hairy armpits and sporting a flowered Muumuu and she
says. 'Nova, Sunshine... put those back! That's poison!'
You know the world is ending when people call a Snicker's poison.
Warlord Steve
BAAWA
www.sonic.net/~wooly
.
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
