| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Sound of Trumpet" |
| Date: |
09 Sep 2007 12:47:02 AM |
| Object: |
Jesus Christ, You Can't Say That In Our School |
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1893122/posts
Jesus Christ, You Can't Say That in Our School (Unless You're Cursing)
Townhall ^ | August 31, 2007 | Jon Sanders
Posted on 09/08/2007 9:17:46 AM PDT by rhema
So according to the wisdom of the public education establishment, a
high-school valedictorian should lose her diploma for - not cheating,
not plagiarism, but 30 seconds of telling her classmates about her
faith in Jesus.
The U.S. Constitution compels them, you see. It's clearly there under
the Separation Clause that everyone in education knows about. Funny
thing about that, though...
But first, here's what happened. There were 15 valedictorians in the
graduating class of 2006 at Lewis-Palmer High School in Monument,
Colorado, and Erica Corder was one of them. With so many top students
and so little time, the school decided to allot them 30 seconds apiece
of condensed remarks at the graduation ceremony. When her time came,
Corder thanked her teachers, parents, and peers for their support and
encouragement, and then she said:
"We are all capable of standing firm and expressing our own beliefs,
which is why I need to tell you about someone who loves you more than
you could ever imagine. He died for you on a cross over 2,000 years
ago, yet was resurrected and is living today in heaven. His name is
Jesus Christ. If you don't already know him personally I encourage you
to find out more about the sacrifice he made for you so that you now
have the opportunity to live in eternity with him."
Heathen forfend! Corder, showing the lively spark of mind that helped
her to achieve so highly in high school, had purposefully neglected to
include that portion of her remarks in rehearsals so as not to disobey
the inevitable order to shut up.
School officials responded typically, immediately meeting with Corder
and demanding she apologize or not receive her diploma. They were most
insistent that she include the phrase "I realize that, had I asked
ahead of time, I would not have been allowed to say what I did."
Corder buckled before the pressure, issued the demanded recantation,
and received her diploma. But she was quite upset about this trespass
against her First Amendment rights, and she obtained representation by
Liberty Council, who wrote on her behalf to Lewis-Palmer High,
demanding an apology. This request went unheeded, so Corder brought
suit.
School officials insist that their actions were "constitutionally
appropriate." Well, they may have been in keeping with the present-day
interpretation of the First Amendment, but were they really
appropriate?
Here's the test: Follow the coercion. The First Amendment protects
individuals' rights of religion, speech, assembly, and petition.
Religious freedom is the very first freedom it secures against
government interference. "Congress shall make no law respecting an
establishment of religion" (sealing citizens against the fear of a
State Church), "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
It should not escape anyone's notice that the Free Exercise clause is
immediately followed by the prohibition against Congress (and by
application, all government) "abridging the freedom of speech, or of
the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to
petition the Government for a redress of grievances." These all
proceed in logical order. A free individual is free to believe,
follow, and express his faith, and it follows that he is free to speak
and publish as he pleases, meet with whom he pleases, and not be
hindered even from airing grievances with the government.
No "Separation Clause" there; that phrase hails from Pres. Thomas
Jefferson's January 1, 1802 letter to the Danbury Baptist Association.
Jefferson used the phrase "a wall of separation between Church &
State" to describe what the First Amendment had accomplished, so that
the Baptists need not fear state governments' declarations of days of
prayer and fasting as abridging their religious rights. The First
Amendment protects religious expression even by individuals in
government, and even in public halls and government buildings - an
idea Pres. Jefferson solidified by concluding his letter with a
reference to "the common father and creator of man."
And this is true liberty - allowing all manner of religious
expression. It is the cardinal opposite of the current teaching on the
First Amendment as it pertains to schools and government; i.e.,
forbidding all manner of religious expression. That, of course, is
tyranny.
Follow the coercion. If a teacher or administrator forces students,
regardless of creed, to hew to his religious beliefs, then that would
be an unconstitutional abridgment of their religious rights. If a
teacher or administrator cited a personal belief in God -- or a
personal disbelief in God -- without any response forced upon the
students, then no First Amendment rights would have been violated. The
former involves coercion, the latter doesn't.
Where was the coercion in Monument? Was it used against the audience
hearing a student's declaration of belief in Jesus Christ and
encouraging her listeners to join her? Were they prevented from
leaving or forced to agree or pledge fealty? Or was it used against
the student? Does the First Amendment protect government officials
forcing a specific kind of speech - a specifically worded apology -
from someone under their power?
Follow the coercion. That's where you can see the tyranny that our
Founders sought to protect us against.
.
|
|
| User: "JTEM" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ, You Can't Say That In Our School |
09 Sep 2007 01:04:55 PM |
|
|
Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@mailcan.com> wrote:
So according to the wisdom of the public education
establishment, a high-school valedictorian should lose
her diploma for - not cheating, not plagiarism, but 30
seconds of telling her classmates about her faith in
Jesus.
And what if she was a Hindu or Wiccan? Would you be
outraged that she was punished for recruiting in a
public school?
Fact is, you maggots don't believe in America, or rights.
You believe in privileges. You believe that you have
the privilege to recruit anywhere you want to recruit, and
nobody else does.
Here in reality, here in America EVERYBODY has the
same rights. If we allow one Christian sect to recruit in
schools, then we have to allow EVERYBODY, regardless
of religion or sect, to recruit.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Medusa" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ, You Can't Say That In Our School |
09 Sep 2007 11:51:16 AM |
|
|
On Sep 9, 12:47 am, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@mailcan.com>
wrote:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1893122/posts
Jesus Christ, You Can't Say That in Our School (Unless You're Cursing)
Townhall ^ | August 31, 2007 | Jon Sanders
Posted on 09/08/2007 9:17:46 AM PDT by rhema
So according to the wisdom of the public education establishment, a
high-school valedictorian should lose her diploma for - not cheating,
not plagiarism, but 30 seconds of telling her classmates about her
faith in Jesus.
The U.S. Constitution compels them, you see. It's clearly there under
the Separation Clause that everyone in education knows about. Funny
thing about that, though...
But first, here's what happened. There were 15 valedictorians in the
graduating class of 2006 at Lewis-Palmer High School in Monument,
Colorado, and Erica Corder was one of them. With so many top students
and so little time, the school decided to allot them 30 seconds apiece
of condensed remarks at the graduation ceremony. When her time came,
Corder thanked her teachers, parents, and peers for their support and
encouragement, and then she said:
I wonder about this story. When I graduated, the valeditorians had to
submit their graduation speeches to a faculty member for approval.
And they were threatened with being pulled offstage if they deviated
from the speech they had submitted.
Why? Someone had the nerve to speak out against the Vietnam War a few
years earlier.
I guess, if this really happened, this school had better do a
preappoval of graduation addresses by students. Lord knows what those
pesky kids are going to say!
And I highly doubt the school can pull this young woman's diploma for
this infraction. She earned it; she's got it. The graduation
ceremony is just a formality.
Medusa
AA #2281
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "raven1" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ, You Can't Say That In Our School |
09 Sep 2007 09:21:15 AM |
|
|
On Sep 9, 1:47 am, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@mailcan.com>
wrote:
But first, here's what happened. There were 15 valedictorians in the
graduating class of 2006 at Lewis-Palmer High School in Monument,
Colorado, and Erica Corder was one of them. With so many top students
and so little time, the school decided to allot them 30 seconds apiece
of condensed remarks at the graduation ceremony. When her time came,
Corder thanked her teachers, parents, and peers for their support and
encouragement, and then she said:
"We are all capable of standing firm and expressing our own beliefs,
which is why I need to tell you about someone who loves you more than
you could ever imagine. He died for you on a cross over 2,000 years
ago, yet was resurrected and is living today in heaven. His name is
Jesus Christ. If you don't already know him personally I encourage you
to find out more about the sacrifice he made for you so that you now
have the opportunity to live in eternity with him."
One wonders if the author would be so fervent in supporting her if she
had said "There is no God but Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet. I
encourage all of you to read the Quran, and embrace Islam".
.
|
|
|
| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ, You Can't Say That In Our School |
09 Sep 2007 04:54:05 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:21:15 -0000, raven1
<psychedelephant1@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 9, 1:47 am, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@mailcan.com>
wrote:
But first, here's what happened. There were 15 valedictorians in the
graduating class of 2006 at Lewis-Palmer High School in Monument,
Colorado, and Erica Corder was one of them. With so many top students
and so little time, the school decided to allot them 30 seconds apiece
of condensed remarks at the graduation ceremony. When her time came,
Corder thanked her teachers, parents, and peers for their support and
encouragement, and then she said:
"We are all capable of standing firm and expressing our own beliefs,
which is why I need to tell you about someone who loves you more than
you could ever imagine. He died for you on a cross over 2,000 years
ago, yet was resurrected and is living today in heaven. His name is
Jesus Christ. If you don't already know him personally I encourage you
to find out more about the sacrifice he made for you so that you now
have the opportunity to live in eternity with him."
One wonders if the author would be so fervent in supporting her if she
had said "There is no God but Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet. I
encourage all of you to read the Quran, and embrace Islam".
Something like that, but not Islamic, happened in Kingston NY a few
years ago. The valedictorian didn't mention God but instead called for
tolerance of religious and other differences. There was an outcry and
the school apologised to the religious extremists who complained that
the speech attacked them.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Al Klein" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ, You Can't Say That In Our School |
10 Sep 2007 02:21:35 PM |
|
|
[Default] On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 17:54:05 -0400, Christopher A.Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
Something like that, but not Islamic, happened in Kingston NY a few
years ago. The valedictorian didn't mention God but instead called for
tolerance of religious and other differences. There was an outcry and
the school apologised to the religious extremists who complained that
the speech attacked them.
They should know.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Ben Kaufman" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ, You Can't Say That In Our School |
10 Sep 2007 03:03:53 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:21:15 -0000, raven1 <psychedelephant1@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 9, 1:47 am, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@mailcan.com>
wrote:
But first, here's what happened. There were 15 valedictorians in the
graduating class of 2006 at Lewis-Palmer High School in Monument,
Colorado, and Erica Corder was one of them. With so many top students
and so little time, the school decided to allot them 30 seconds apiece
of condensed remarks at the graduation ceremony. When her time came,
Corder thanked her teachers, parents, and peers for their support and
encouragement, and then she said:
"We are all capable of standing firm and expressing our own beliefs,
which is why I need to tell you about someone who loves you more than
you could ever imagine. He died for you on a cross over 2,000 years
ago, yet was resurrected and is living today in heaven. His name is
Jesus Christ. If you don't already know him personally I encourage you
to find out more about the sacrifice he made for you so that you now
have the opportunity to live in eternity with him."
One wonders if the author would be so fervent in supporting her if she
had said "There is no God but Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet. I
encourage all of you to read the Quran, and embrace Islam".
They must walk around bare foot to avoid putting the shoe on the other foot.
:-)
Ben
.
|
|
|
| User: "bushhelpscorporationsdestroyamerica" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ, You Can't Say That In Our School |
10 Sep 2007 03:16:52 PM |
|
|
On Sep 10, 1:03 pm, Ben Kaufman <spaXm-mXe-anXd-paXy-5000-
doll...@pobox.com> wrote:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:21:15 -0000, raven1 <psychedelepha...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sep 9, 1:47 am, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@mailcan.com>
wrote:
But first, here's what happened. There were 15 valedictorians in the
graduating class of 2006 at Lewis-Palmer High School in Monument,
Colorado, and Erica Corder was one of them. With so many top students
and so little time, the school decided to allot them 30 seconds apiece
of condensed remarks at the graduation ceremony. When her time came,
Corder thanked her teachers, parents, and peers for their support and
encouragement, and then she said:
"We are all capable of standing firm and expressing our own beliefs,
which is why I need to tell you about someone who loves you more than
you could ever imagine. He died for you on a cross over 2,000 years
ago, yet was resurrected and is living today in heaven. His name is
Jesus Christ. If you don't already know him personally I encourage you
to find out more about the sacrifice he made for you so that you now
have the opportunity to live in eternity with him."
One wonders if the author would be so fervent in supporting her if she
had said "There is no God but Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet. I
encourage all of you to read the Quran, and embrace Islam".
They must walk around bare foot to avoid putting the shoe on the other foot.
:-)
Ben- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
JESUS FUCKERS ARE KILLING THIS COUNTRY AND THE WORLD, CHRISTIANS ARE
THE BIGGEST HYPOCRITICAL MURDERERS IN THE WORLD.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Josef Balluch" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ, You Can't Say That In Our School |
09 Sep 2007 10:04:43 AM |
|
|
raven1 <psychedelephant1@gmail.com> wrote in news:1189347675.006612.12720
@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:
....
One wonders if the author would be so fervent in supporting her if she
had said "There is no God but Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet. I
encourage all of you to read the Quran, and embrace Islam".
And as we know, WoT/SoT would never copy and paste such material.
Regards,
Josef
A man always has two reasons for doing anything - a good
reason and the real reason.
-- J. P. Morgan
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ, You Can't Say That In Our School |
09 Sep 2007 12:37:31 PM |
|
|
On Sep 9, 1:47 am, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@mailcan.com>
wrote:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1893122/posts
Jesus Christ, You Can't Say That in Our School (Unless You're Cursing)
Townhall ^ | August 31, 2007 | Jon Sanders
Posted on 09/08/2007 9:17:46 AM PDT by rhema
So according to the wisdom of the public education establishment, a
high-school valedictorian should lose her diploma for - not cheating,
not plagiarism, but 30 seconds of telling her classmates about her
faith in Jesus.
And therefore proving she doesn't deserve a diploma, since it's a
document proving you're education's complete-and yet her ignorance
still remains.
-Panama Floyd, Atlanta.
aa#2015/KoBAAWA!
.
|
|
|
| User: "Al Klein" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ, You Can't Say That In Our School |
10 Sep 2007 02:22:54 PM |
|
|
[Default] On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 10:37:31 -0700,
wrote:
On Sep 9, 1:47 am, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@mailcan.com>
wrote:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1893122/posts
Jesus Christ, You Can't Say That in Our School (Unless You're Cursing)
Townhall ^ | August 31, 2007 | Jon Sanders
Posted on 09/08/2007 9:17:46 AM PDT by rhema
So according to the wisdom of the public education establishment, a
high-school valedictorian should lose her diploma for - not cheating,
not plagiarism, but 30 seconds of telling her classmates about her
faith in Jesus.
And therefore proving she doesn't deserve a diploma, since it's a
document proving you're education's complete-and yet her ignorance
still remains.
Ignorance of civics, if nothing else.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Nosterill" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ, You Can't Say That In Our School |
10 Sep 2007 08:04:07 AM |
|
|
On Sep 9, 6:47 am, Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrum...@mailcan.com>
wrote:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1893122/posts
Jesus Christ, You Can't Say That in Our School (Unless You're Cursing)
<snip>
Heathen forfend! Corder, showing the lively spark of mind that helped
her to achieve so highly in high school, had purposefully neglected to
include that portion of her remarks in rehearsals so as not to disobey
the inevitable order to shut up.
Devious, dishonest little minx, isn't she?
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ, You Can't Say That In Our School |
10 Sep 2007 10:06:15 AM |
|
|
Thank god that children are not forced to listen to another student's
religious beliefs and have them forced down their throats. I am so
glad that the Constitution and the Supreme Court have defending
children's rights.
al
Heathen forfend! Corder, showing the lively spark of mind that helped
her to achieve so highly in high school, had purposefully neglected to
include that portion of her remarks in rehearsals so as not to disobey
the inevitable order to shut up.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ, You Can't Say That In Our School |
09 Sep 2007 11:23:06 AM |
|
|
Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrumpet@mailcan.com> wrote:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1893122/posts
But first, here's what happened. There were 15 valedictorians in the
graduating class of 2006 at Lewis-Palmer High School in Monument,
Colorado, and Erica Corder was one of them. With so many top students
and so little time, the school decided to allot them 30 seconds apiece
of condensed remarks at the graduation ceremony. When her time came,
Corder thanked her teachers, parents, and peers for their support and
encouragement, and then she said:
....
Heathen forfend! Corder, showing the lively spark of mind that helped
her to achieve so highly in high school, had purposefully neglected to
include that portion of her remarks in rehearsals so as not to disobey
the inevitable order to shut up.
....
Here's the test: Follow the coercion. The First Amendment protects
individuals' rights of religion, speech, assembly, and petition.
Religious freedom is the very first freedom it secures against
government interference. "Congress shall make no law respecting an
establishment of religion" (sealing citizens against the fear of a
State Church), "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."
It should not escape anyone's notice that the Free Exercise clause is
immediately followed by the prohibition against Congress (and by
application, all government) "abridging the freedom of speech, or of
the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to
petition the Government for a redress of grievances." These all
proceed in logical order. A free individual is free to believe,
follow, and express his faith, and it follows that he is free to speak
and publish as he pleases, meet with whom he pleases, and not be
hindered even from airing grievances with the government.
A valedictory address is NOT "free speech". It is a ceremonial
function in which a student is honored. The speech that is given must
be approved in advance, and must adhere to that which was approved.
Follow the coercion. If a teacher or administrator forces students,
regardless of creed, to hew to his religious beliefs, then that would
be an unconstitutional abridgment of their religious rights. If a
teacher or administrator cited a personal belief in God -- or a
personal disbelief in God -- without any response forced upon the
students, then no First Amendment rights would have been violated. The
former involves coercion, the latter doesn't.
Actually the latter does, because the "audience" in a school is a
"captive audience".
lojbab
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Bible Studies with Satan" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ, You Can't Say That In Our School |
09 Sep 2007 01:48:26 PM |
|
|
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1893122/posts
Jesus Christ, You Can't Say That in Our School (Unless You're Cursing)
Ha ha ha. It is true. I have driven that scumbag Jesus out of kindergarten.
You're next, Trumpet Boy.
--
God did not need to work miracles to convince atheists but to convert heathens.
-- Sir Francis Bacon
.
|
|
|
| User: "Michael James" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ, You Can't Say That In Our School |
09 Sep 2007 02:12:57 PM |
|
|
Bible Studies with Satan wrote:
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1893122/posts
Jesus Christ, You Can't Say That in Our School (Unless You're Cursing)
Ha ha ha. It is true. I have driven that scumbag Jesus out of kindergarten.
You're next, Trumpet Boy.
spoken like a true fascist
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Father Haskell" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ, You Can't Say That In Our School |
09 Sep 2007 02:28:46 PM |
|
|
On Sep 9, 2:48 pm, Bible Studies with Satan <chu...@state.org> wrote:
Sound of Trumpet wrote:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1893122/posts
Jesus Christ, You Can't Say That in Our School (Unless You're Cursing)
Ha ha ha. It is true. I have driven that scumbag Jesus out of kindergarten.
You're next, Trumpet Boy.
If you're looking for kindergartner-sized torture
furnishings, let's talk.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "abelincoln" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus Christ, You Can't Say That In Our School |
10 Sep 2007 06:39:26 PM |
|
|
yawn....
.
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
JESUS CHRIST WENT TO THE CROSS SO YOU CAN GO TO HEAVEN - The good news is that God came from Heaven to earth in the person of Jesus Christ over 2000 years ago and died for our past, present and future sins(misdeeds). He was born in the land of Israel
Re: JESUS CHRIST WENT TO THE CROSS SO YOU CAN GO TO HEAVEN - The good news is that God came from Heaven to earth in the person of Jesus Christ over 2000 years ago and died for our past, present and future sins(misdeeds). He was born in the land of Is
Re: Save Our Souls "The most important recording YOU'LL ever hear."Save Our Souls - Ungodly Bushite troops asked if they would murder INNOCENTAmericans - They Lie to Cheat at Murder for Money - bushites are the enemiesof all living Human Beings - Can
Re: "It can really blow your mind when you find out that intelligent design is not the way our critics have said it is." --Casey Luskin, founder, IDEA Club
Article: If You Don't Love God, You Can't Be Our President
REVELATION: America Hates Bushite - Death to our indiscriminately murderous thieving enemies of God's Creation, who war Creation for bush's personal escape for the crimes of 911 Christ would say right, wouldn't you say so likewise my brothers and s
Look, do you want to defeat the bad guys, or not? Bush gave US zero evidence to form our free thoughts on the 911 Justice issue. Treason. Simple. - If Putin is evil, surely Bush is worse than Satan himself... God, don't miss this!!!
Demand America Take our Calls for Justice as All - Did You Know: thebushite is warring Humanity to bring about what was there prior to themcriminally invading? Support our rise our America for OPEN COMMUNICATIONS -The bushmob is thieving billions fr
| National Guard Enlistment Down 12%. Thank You Bush For Hollowing Out Our Military
Our Invitation to You
Re: INCREDIBLE PERFORMANCE ! ! ! - HANNITY interviews JOHNNY AMERICA - "Death to our indiscriminately murderous thieving enemies of God's Creation, who war Creation for bush's personal escape for the crimes of 911 Christ would say right, wouldn't you
Wife Holds Raffle To Buy Husband Armor For Iraq. Thank You Bush For Fucking Our Militray Over!
Look, do you want to defeat the bad guys, or not? Bush gave US zero evidence to form our free thoughts on the 911 Justice issue. Treason. Simple. - The bushite took an Oath to God and country to defend America from war criminals, and instead, as cow
Our Invitation to You
We are all entitled to our opinions and beliefs but I disagree with trying to force them upon people like you do.
|
|
|
