| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Kenny Leong" |
| Date: |
25 Dec 2003 12:49:44 PM |
| Object: |
Jesus did not die for anybody |
Jesus did not die for anybody. The answer is obvious, and it's linked
to the attributes of the christian god.
If you're a all-knowing, perfect planner and perfect designer (aka the
christian 'god'), and you decide to create something, then whatever
that thing you create is nothing but your very own movements......
because it is you that chooses every single 'mechanical' movement for
the product you make in advance...so those mechanical movements are
your OWN movements since you chose them all with full knowledge before
any product is even made.
If christians believe that god is all-knowing, and is a perfect
planner, then there is no way that god can create a product with its
own freedom of movement. The main point...if christians insist they
have free-will, then they better go consider how their god, with
complete knowledge and perfect planning skills can create a product
that it can be upset or disappointed with.....especially when
everything is already chosen and known by that creator before the
product even exists. And especially that delaying the product's
physical creation by 1 day or 1 trillion years won't make any
difference at all...because all the future mechanical actions of the
product are already chosen in advance. Those mechanical actions are
chosen before the product can even move or do anything to upset you or
make you angry....because the product doesn't even yet exist
physically. It means that god can never be upset by the behaviour of
product because everything was chosen in advance.
The conclusions are : 1) god cannot create anything with free-will, as
it would mean that the attributes (all-knowing, perfect planning)
would be contradicted. 2) the mechanical actions of the christian
god's product were chosen before the product can even do anything for
itself, and therefore the future mechanical actions will be carried
out perfectly as planned and chosen. Thus the product's movements are
flawless and does not need to be judged. 3) Since the product's
movements are already chosen in advance, the product can not have
free-will. Thus...judgement day is a hoax.
Kenny L.
.
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| User: "Dude...Wheres My Clayton?" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus did not die for anybody |
25 Dec 2003 06:44:47 PM |
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"Kenny Leong" <kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:29154d7c.0312251049.18730879@posting.google.com...
Jesus did not die for anybody. The answer is obvious, and it's linked
to the attributes of the christian god.
Jesus was temporarily inconvenienced for lots of things I had nothing to do
with, in a mythical story.
.
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| User: "Dmitry C." |
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| Title: Re: Jesus did not die for anybody |
30 Dec 2003 10:45:00 PM |
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(Kenny Leong) wrote in message news:<29154d7c.0312251049.18730879@posting.google.com>...
Jesus did not die for anybody. The answer is obvious, and it's linked
to the attributes of the christian god.
If you're a all-knowing, perfect planner and perfect designer (aka the
christian 'god'), and you decide to create something, then whatever
that thing you create is nothing but your very own movements......
because it is you that chooses every single 'mechanical' movement for
the product you make in advance...so those mechanical movements are
your OWN movements since you chose them all with full knowledge before
any product is even made.
Your question appears to be how to square God's providence and
omniscience (in particular, His knowledge of contingent events) with
man's free will.
First of all, let's point out that human beings have free will.
Second, God does act in all things, both voluntary and involuntary.
But according to Herbert McCabe, "to be free means not to be under the
influence of some other _creature_, it is to be independent of other
_bits of the universe_; it is not and could not mean to be independent
from God." God ceaselessly moves humans towards Himself. But it is
also God Who makes humans to be freely acting agents who can refuse
His call. God allows humans to participate in creation, and in
creating the world He foreknew that His plan would be realized, in
part, by human beings' free choices.
How does God know future events? Because God is atemporal and eternal,
and eternity means, in Boethius' definition, "the complete and total
possession of unending life all at once". God's knowledge is
"knowledge of a never passing instance." God surveys all time from a
citadel of eternity. Creation, for Him, is one instantaneous event.
.
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| User: "Kenny Leong" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus did not die for anybody |
31 Dec 2003 09:19:27 AM |
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(Dmitry C.) wrote in message news:<b800d6cd.0312302045.1b1488aa@posting.google.com>...
kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com (Kenny Leong) wrote in message news:<29154d7c.0312251049.18730879@posting.google.com>...
Jesus did not die for anybody. The answer is obvious, and it's linked
to the attributes of the christian god.
If you're a all-knowing, perfect planner and perfect designer (aka the
christian 'god'), and you decide to create something, then whatever
that thing you create is nothing but your very own movements......
because it is you that chooses every single 'mechanical' movement for
the product you make in advance...so those mechanical movements are
your OWN movements since you chose them all with full knowledge before
any product is even made.
Your question appears to be how to square God's providence and
omniscience (in particular, His knowledge of contingent events) with
man's free will.
First of all, let's point out that human beings have free will.
Second, God does act in all things, both voluntary and involuntary.
But according to Herbert McCabe, "to be free means not to be under the
influence of some other _creature_, it is to be independent of other
_bits of the universe_; it is not and could not mean to be independent
from God." God ceaselessly moves humans towards Himself. But it is
also God Who makes humans to be freely acting agents who can refuse
His call. God allows humans to participate in creation, and in
creating the world He foreknew that His plan would be realized, in
part, by human beings' free choices.
How does God know future events? Because God is atemporal and eternal,
and eternity means, in Boethius' definition, "the complete and total
possession of unending life all at once". God's knowledge is
"knowledge of a never passing instance." God surveys all time from a
citadel of eternity. Creation, for Him, is one instantaneous event.
Creation for 'him' is one instantaneous event? That's great...really
great. In that case, it's necessary to correct the bible. Because the
bible says that god created things in a certain number of 'days'. If
the bible is wrong, then obviously it needs to be corrected because
you just said that creation for 'him' is one 'instantaneous' event. So
is the bible wrong? Or you're wrong?
Remember that the bible says that nothing was around in the
'beginning' except for 'god'. So if your 'god' already knows
everything BEFORE that 'instantaneous' creation event, then obviously
'god' knows all future mechanical movements for you, the product. And
why would 'god' know all of those future mechanical actions? It's
because your 'god' must have chosen them...because you weren't even
around before that 'instantaneous' creation event that you introduced.
So the causer of all mechanical movements is 'god' because how else
would go know all of your future mechanical movements before that
instantaneous physical creation event? If 'god' doesn't know your
future mechanical movements before that event, then obviously god
wouldn't be all-knowing ... right?
Kenny L.
.
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| User: "Dmitry C." |
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| Title: Re: Jesus did not die for anybody |
31 Dec 2003 04:34:02 PM |
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(Kenny Leong) wrote in message news:<29154d7c.0312310719.3c21e8a2@posting.google.com>...
Creation for 'him' is one instantaneous event? That's great...really
great. In that case, it's necessary to correct the bible. Because the
bible says that god created things in a certain number of 'days'. If
the bible is wrong, then obviously it needs to be corrected because
you just said that creation for 'him' is one 'instantaneous' event. So
is the bible wrong? Or you're wrong?
Remember that the bible says that nothing was around in the
'beginning' except for 'god'. So if your 'god' already knows
everything BEFORE that 'instantaneous' creation event, then obviously
'god' knows all future mechanical movements for you, the product. And
why would 'god' know all of those future mechanical actions? It's
because your 'god' must have chosen them...because you weren't even
around before that 'instantaneous' creation event that you introduced.
So the causer of all mechanical movements is 'god' because how else
would go know all of your future mechanical movements before that
instantaneous physical creation event? If 'god' doesn't know your
future mechanical movements before that event, then obviously god
wouldn't be all-knowing ... right?
I am not wrong. God knows what I freely choose to do in the future by
virtue of His possessing the past, present, and future in one
instantaneous "never passing" moment.
God sees future things "present to Him just such as in time they will
at some future point come to be".
.
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| User: "Randy Story" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus did not die for anybody |
31 Dec 2003 06:36:05 PM |
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"Dmitry C." <dchernik99@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b800d6cd.0312311434.5f17389d@posting.google.com...
kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com (Kenny Leong) wrote in message
news:<29154d7c.0312310719.3c21e8a2@posting.google.com>...
Creation for 'him' is one instantaneous event? That's great...really
great. In that case, it's necessary to correct the bible. Because the
bible says that god created things in a certain number of 'days'. If
the bible is wrong, then obviously it needs to be corrected because
you just said that creation for 'him' is one 'instantaneous' event. So
is the bible wrong? Or you're wrong?
Remember that the bible says that nothing was around in the
'beginning' except for 'god'. So if your 'god' already knows
everything BEFORE that 'instantaneous' creation event, then obviously
'god' knows all future mechanical movements for you, the product. And
why would 'god' know all of those future mechanical actions? It's
because your 'god' must have chosen them...because you weren't even
around before that 'instantaneous' creation event that you introduced.
So the causer of all mechanical movements is 'god' because how else
would go know all of your future mechanical movements before that
instantaneous physical creation event? If 'god' doesn't know your
future mechanical movements before that event, then obviously god
wouldn't be all-knowing ... right?
I am not wrong. God knows what I freely choose to do in the future by
virtue of His possessing the past, present, and future in one
instantaneous "never passing" moment.
God sees future things "present to Him just such as in time they will
at some future point come to be".
What kenny cant comprehend is that Gods knowledge of the future event in no
way causes that event. Its just that he cant be wrong about what he knows
will come about freely.
.
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| User: "Kenny Leong" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus did not die for anybody |
01 Jan 2004 01:47:45 AM |
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"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message news:<vv6r0bsf1shp78@corp.supernews.com>...
"Dmitry C." <dchernik99@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b800d6cd.0312311434.5f17389d@posting.google.com...
kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com (Kenny Leong) wrote in message
news:<29154d7c.0312310719.3c21e8a2@posting.google.com>...
Creation for 'him' is one instantaneous event? That's great...really
great. In that case, it's necessary to correct the bible. Because the
bible says that god created things in a certain number of 'days'. If
the bible is wrong, then obviously it needs to be corrected because
you just said that creation for 'him' is one 'instantaneous' event. So
is the bible wrong? Or you're wrong?
Remember that the bible says that nothing was around in the
'beginning' except for 'god'. So if your 'god' already knows
everything BEFORE that 'instantaneous' creation event, then obviously
'god' knows all future mechanical movements for you, the product. And
why would 'god' know all of those future mechanical actions? It's
because your 'god' must have chosen them...because you weren't even
around before that 'instantaneous' creation event that you introduced.
So the causer of all mechanical movements is 'god' because how else
would go know all of your future mechanical movements before that
instantaneous physical creation event? If 'god' doesn't know your
future mechanical movements before that event, then obviously god
wouldn't be all-knowing ... right?
I am not wrong. God knows what I freely choose to do in the future by
virtue of His possessing the past, present, and future in one
instantaneous "never passing" moment.
God sees future things "present to Him just such as in time they will
at some future point come to be".
What kenny cant comprehend is that Gods knowledge of the future event in no
way causes that event. Its just that he cant be wrong about what he knows
will come about freely.
I think you need a bucket to catch all that dribble running from your
mouth Randy. You fail to understand that your 'god' is the one that
created every single one of your mechanical movements. It was already
explained to you that at the 'beginning', there was nothing else
around except for your 'god'. So, before the creation of any product,
'god' knew any future mechanical actions of every single one of
his/her/its product because 'god' was the one that chose all of those
mechanical actions. And why must god have chosen all of those
mechanical actions? It's because the product was not bloody around at
that stage 'before' its creation. And if the product isn't yet in
existence....then who's responsible for it's future creation?
Well...it can't be you can it? It can't be anything else can it? The
thing that's responsible for your creation has to be your 'god'. But
since your god is all-knowing, and is the perfect planning creator,
then every single mechanical movement for YOU was chosen before your
'god' even decided to create you 'physically'. And since 'god' is
all-knowing, then he/she/it planned all of your actions 'before' you
even existed 'virtually'. I think your brain is all ready tied up in a
knot, so I'm sure you'd go bananas trying to figure out how your 'god'
(being all-knowing) even knew what you were going to do before your
god even created you in a virtual state. heheheh. You idiot.
Kenny L.
.
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| User: "Kenny Leong" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus did not die for anybody |
01 Jan 2004 01:46:25 AM |
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"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message news:<vv6r0bsf1shp78@corp.supernews.com>...
"Dmitry C." <dchernik99@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b800d6cd.0312311434.5f17389d@posting.google.com...
kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com (Kenny Leong) wrote in message
news:<29154d7c.0312310719.3c21e8a2@posting.google.com>...
Creation for 'him' is one instantaneous event? That's great...really
great. In that case, it's necessary to correct the bible. Because the
bible says that god created things in a certain number of 'days'. If
the bible is wrong, then obviously it needs to be corrected because
you just said that creation for 'him' is one 'instantaneous' event. So
is the bible wrong? Or you're wrong?
Remember that the bible says that nothing was around in the
'beginning' except for 'god'. So if your 'god' already knows
everything BEFORE that 'instantaneous' creation event, then obviously
'god' knows all future mechanical movements for you, the product. And
why would 'god' know all of those future mechanical actions? It's
because your 'god' must have chosen them...because you weren't even
around before that 'instantaneous' creation event that you introduced.
So the causer of all mechanical movements is 'god' because how else
would go know all of your future mechanical movements before that
instantaneous physical creation event? If 'god' doesn't know your
future mechanical movements before that event, then obviously god
wouldn't be all-knowing ... right?
I am not wrong. God knows what I freely choose to do in the future by
virtue of His possessing the past, present, and future in one
instantaneous "never passing" moment.
God sees future things "present to Him just such as in time they will
at some future point come to be".
What kenny cant comprehend is that Gods knowledge of the future event in no
way causes that event. Its just that he cant be wrong about what he knows
will come about freely.
I think you need a bucket to catch all that dribble running from your
mouth Randy. You fail to understand that your 'god' is the one that
every single one of your mechanical movements. It was already
explained to you that at the 'beginning', there was nothing else
around except for your 'god'. So, before the creation of any product,
'god' knew any future mechanical actions of every single one of
his/her/its product because 'god' was the one that chose all of those
mechanical actions. And why must god have chosen all of those
mechanical actions? It's because the product was not bloody around at
that stage 'before' its creation. And if the product isn't yet in
existence....then who's responsible for it's future creation?
Well...it can't be you can it? It can't be anything else can it? The
thing that's responsible for your creation has to be your 'god'. But
since your god is all-knowing, and is the perfect planning creator,
then every single mechanical movement for YOU was chosen before your
'god' even decided to create you 'physically'. And since 'god' is
all-knowing, then he/she/it planned all of your actions 'before' you
even existed 'virtually'. I think your brain is all ready tied up in a
knot, so I'm sure you'd go bananas trying to figure out how your 'god'
(being all-knowing) even knew what you were going to do before your
god even created you in a virtual state. heheheh. You idiot.
Kenny L.
.
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| User: "Bill" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus did not die for anybody |
31 Dec 2003 06:59:13 PM |
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|
If God created and controls the universe and he knows some terrible
castrophy is about to occur, killing and maiming thousands of innocent
people, why does he not intervene and prevent the catastrophe??
Why does God permit plagues, volcanoes, hurricanes and other catastrophes?
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:vv6r0bsf1shp78@corp.supernews.com...
"Dmitry C." <dchernik99@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b800d6cd.0312311434.5f17389d@posting.google.com...
kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com (Kenny Leong) wrote in message
news:<29154d7c.0312310719.3c21e8a2@posting.google.com>...
Creation for 'him' is one instantaneous event? That's great...really
great. In that case, it's necessary to correct the bible. Because the
bible says that god created things in a certain number of 'days'. If
the bible is wrong, then obviously it needs to be corrected because
you just said that creation for 'him' is one 'instantaneous' event. So
is the bible wrong? Or you're wrong?
Remember that the bible says that nothing was around in the
'beginning' except for 'god'. So if your 'god' already knows
everything BEFORE that 'instantaneous' creation event, then obviously
'god' knows all future mechanical movements for you, the product. And
why would 'god' know all of those future mechanical actions? It's
because your 'god' must have chosen them...because you weren't even
around before that 'instantaneous' creation event that you introduced.
So the causer of all mechanical movements is 'god' because how else
would go know all of your future mechanical movements before that
instantaneous physical creation event? If 'god' doesn't know your
future mechanical movements before that event, then obviously god
wouldn't be all-knowing ... right?
I am not wrong. God knows what I freely choose to do in the future by
virtue of His possessing the past, present, and future in one
instantaneous "never passing" moment.
God sees future things "present to Him just such as in time they will
at some future point come to be".
What kenny cant comprehend is that Gods knowledge of the future event in
no
way causes that event. Its just that he cant be wrong about what he knows
will come about freely.
.
|
|
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| User: "Randy Story" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus did not die for anybody |
31 Dec 2003 07:40:02 PM |
|
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"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:BhKIb.264464$Ec1.9127482@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
If God created and controls the universe and he knows some terrible
castrophy is about to occur, killing and maiming thousands of innocent
people, why does he not intervene and prevent the catastrophe??
Why does God permit plagues, volcanoes, hurricanes and other catastrophes?
That is very simple! Since he plans to give everlasting to all creatures,
this present life is not about living in a perfect world. It is about making
moral choices concerning your fellow man and our relationship to God. By
allowing adversities in life these decisions become paramount to discovering
the character of his creatures or you might say, for them to discover their
own character. How do you respond when your neighbor is in calamity? & do
you claim your response is your because of your own integrity or do you
realize that even your ability to respond morally is a gift from an
infinitely good creator. A perfect world is the final reward for those who
wnat what only God himself can bring about. For those who desire to remain
apart from God forever, they will have this freedom even if they do not
understand that without God no happiness can be found. They will be like
Sicifus, rolling the rock up the hill only to have it roll back down again
and so on and so on and so on, a everlasting life of meaningless wandering.
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:vv6r0bsf1shp78@corp.supernews.com...
"Dmitry C." <dchernik99@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b800d6cd.0312311434.5f17389d@posting.google.com...
kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com (Kenny Leong) wrote in message
news:<29154d7c.0312310719.3c21e8a2@posting.google.com>...
Creation for 'him' is one instantaneous event? That's great...really
great. In that case, it's necessary to correct the bible. Because
the
bible says that god created things in a certain number of 'days'. If
the bible is wrong, then obviously it needs to be corrected because
you just said that creation for 'him' is one 'instantaneous' event.
So
is the bible wrong? Or you're wrong?
Remember that the bible says that nothing was around in the
'beginning' except for 'god'. So if your 'god' already knows
everything BEFORE that 'instantaneous' creation event, then
obviously
'god' knows all future mechanical movements for you, the product.
And
why would 'god' know all of those future mechanical actions? It's
because your 'god' must have chosen them...because you weren't even
around before that 'instantaneous' creation event that you
introduced.
So the causer of all mechanical movements is 'god' because how else
would go know all of your future mechanical movements before that
instantaneous physical creation event? If 'god' doesn't know your
future mechanical movements before that event, then obviously god
wouldn't be all-knowing ... right?
I am not wrong. God knows what I freely choose to do in the future by
virtue of His possessing the past, present, and future in one
instantaneous "never passing" moment.
God sees future things "present to Him just such as in time they will
at some future point come to be".
What kenny cant comprehend is that Gods knowledge of the future event in
no
way causes that event. Its just that he cant be wrong about what he
knows
will come about freely.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Kenny Leong" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus did not die for anybody |
01 Jan 2004 01:27:14 AM |
|
|
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message news:<vv6uoba8k8el3c@corp.supernews.com>...
"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:BhKIb.264464$Ec1.9127482@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
If God created and controls the universe and he knows some terrible
castrophy is about to occur, killing and maiming thousands of innocent
people, why does he not intervene and prevent the catastrophe??
Why does God permit plagues, volcanoes, hurricanes and other catastrophes?
That is very simple! Since he plans to give everlasting to all creatures,
this present life is not about living in a perfect world. It is about making
moral choices concerning your fellow man and our relationship to God. By
allowing adversities in life these decisions become paramount to discovering
the character of his creatures or you might say, for them to discover their
own character. How do you respond when your neighbor is in calamity? & do
you claim your response is your because of your own integrity or do you
realize that even your ability to respond morally is a gift from an
infinitely good creator. A perfect world is the final reward for those who
wnat what only God himself can bring about. For those who desire to remain
apart from God forever, they will have this freedom even if they do not
understand that without God no happiness can be found. They will be like
Sicifus, rolling the rock up the hill only to have it roll back down again
and so on and so on and so on, a everlasting life of meaningless wandering.
There's two words to describe your thoughtless nonsense Randy .... bull sh**
Kenny L.
"Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote in message
news:vv6r0bsf1shp78@corp.supernews.com...
"Dmitry C." <dchernik99@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b800d6cd.0312311434.5f17389d@posting.google.com...
kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com (Kenny Leong) wrote in message
news:<29154d7c.0312310719.3c21e8a2@posting.google.com>...
Creation for 'him' is one instantaneous event? That's great...really
great. In that case, it's necessary to correct the bible. Because
the
bible says that god created things in a certain number of 'days'. If
the bible is wrong, then obviously it needs to be corrected because
you just said that creation for 'him' is one 'instantaneous' event.
So
is the bible wrong? Or you're wrong?
Remember that the bible says that nothing was around in the
'beginning' except for 'god'. So if your 'god' already knows
everything BEFORE that 'instantaneous' creation event, then
obviously
'god' knows all future mechanical movements for you, the product.
And
why would 'god' know all of those future mechanical actions? It's
because your 'god' must have chosen them...because you weren't even
around before that 'instantaneous' creation event that you
introduced.
So the causer of all mechanical movements is 'god' because how else
would go know all of your future mechanical movements before that
instantaneous physical creation event? If 'god' doesn't know your
future mechanical movements before that event, then obviously god
wouldn't be all-knowing ... right?
I am not wrong. God knows what I freely choose to do in the future by
virtue of His possessing the past, present, and future in one
instantaneous "never passing" moment.
God sees future things "present to Him just such as in time they will
at some future point come to be".
What kenny cant comprehend is that Gods knowledge of the future event in
no
way causes that event. Its just that he cant be wrong about what he
knows
will come about freely.
.
|
|
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| User: "Kenny Leong" |
|
| Title: Re: Jesus did not die for anybody |
01 Jan 2004 01:35:49 AM |
|
|
(Dmitry C.) wrote in message news:<b800d6cd.0312311434.5f17389d@posting.google.com>...
kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com (Kenny Leong) wrote in message news:<29154d7c.0312310719.3c21e8a2@posting.google.com>...
Creation for 'him' is one instantaneous event? That's great...really
great. In that case, it's necessary to correct the bible. Because the
bible says that god created things in a certain number of 'days'. If
the bible is wrong, then obviously it needs to be corrected because
you just said that creation for 'him' is one 'instantaneous' event. So
is the bible wrong? Or you're wrong?
Remember that the bible says that nothing was around in the
'beginning' except for 'god'. So if your 'god' already knows
everything BEFORE that 'instantaneous' creation event, then obviously
'god' knows all future mechanical movements for you, the product. And
why would 'god' know all of those future mechanical actions? It's
because your 'god' must have chosen them...because you weren't even
around before that 'instantaneous' creation event that you introduced.
So the causer of all mechanical movements is 'god' because how else
would go know all of your future mechanical movements before that
instantaneous physical creation event? If 'god' doesn't know your
future mechanical movements before that event, then obviously god
wouldn't be all-knowing ... right?
I am not wrong. God knows what I freely choose to do in the future by
virtue of His possessing the past, present, and future in one
instantaneous "never passing" moment.
Oh I see. So the bible is obviously wrong. Because you said that god's
creation is instantaneous. While the bible says that at the beginning,
god created the universe in a sequence of timed steps.
God sees future things "present to Him just such as in time they will
at some future point come to be".
Yes, but you see....if god is the only one around at one stage, and
nothing else was around, then god will be only thing responsible for
every single mechanical movement for ANY future product. Why? It's
because I already explained to you that 'god' is supposed to be
all-knowing, and perfect planning. If nothing else is around, then
only 'god' can create 'something' from 'nothing'. And at some 'stage'
BEFORE the creation of god's product, your 'god' already knew what
he/she/it was going to create and plan because your god is
all-knowing. Therefore there is absolutely no way that your 'god' can
see the future mechanial movements of god's product without having
chosen every single one of those mechanical actions. And why must god
have 'chosen' all of those mechanical actions? It's because the god
damn product wasn't bloody around at the time. It was 'god' that
created things from nothing...so everything is caused by 'god'...so
it's his/her/its fault for everything. The product is not responsible
for anything...because it was not bloody around at the time. So I hope
you understand such a simple thing now.
Kenny L.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus did not die for anybody |
01 Jan 2004 06:45:18 AM |
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On 31 Dec 2003 07:19:27 -0800, (Kenny Leong) wrote:
Creation for 'him' is one instantaneous event? That's great...really
great. In that case, it's necessary to correct the bible. Because the
bible says that god created things in a certain number of 'days'.
That's because the bible is written in the hand of man. And those sheepherders
didn't understand the concepts of "instantaneous", but in "periods" of time.
See, you don't understand any better than those sheepherders.
the bible is wrong, then obviously it needs to be corrected because
you just said that creation for 'him' is one 'instantaneous' event. So
is the bible wrong? Or you're wrong?
**YOU** are in over your head - and that's the truth.
You are limited by what your brain saw the last 5 minutes. No comprehension
involved - or desired.
.
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| User: "Randy Story" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus did not die for anybody |
01 Jan 2004 10:53:08 AM |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:p858vvsncr79c0hqk1pehk77t0afbm7n0c@4ax.com...
On 31 Dec 2003 07:19:27 -0800, (Kenny Leong)
wrote:
Creation for 'him' is one instantaneous event? That's great...really
great. In that case, it's necessary to correct the bible. Because the
bible says that god created things in a certain number of 'days'.
That's because the bible is written in the hand of man. And those
sheepherders
didn't understand the concepts of "instantaneous", but in "periods" of
time.
See, you don't understand any better than those sheepherders.
the bible is wrong, then obviously it needs to be corrected because
you just said that creation for 'him' is one 'instantaneous' event. So
is the bible wrong? Or you're wrong?
**YOU** are in over your head - and that's the truth.
You are limited by what your brain saw the last 5 minutes. No
comprehension
involved - or desired.
To Duke: I am convinced Kenny sees our argument but he is constipated in his
ability to clear his mental block concerning what omnisceince really means.
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus did not die for anybody |
01 Jan 2004 01:25:03 PM |
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On Thu, 1 Jan 2004 08:53:08 -0800, "Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote:
You are limited by what your brain saw the last 5 minutes. No
comprehension
involved - or desired.
To Duke: I am convinced Kenny sees our argument but he is constipated in his
ability to clear his mental block concerning what omnisceince really means.
Oh, I'm sure he has, just as you said. He just wants to rattle his bones trying
to act out his fantasy to his atheist friends. Who I suspect are equally
knowing but afraid to show it.
Have a Happy New Year.
.
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| User: "Kenny Leong" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus did not die for anybody |
02 Jan 2004 04:27:26 AM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<vss8vv8438jp2gdg24amstpj4r84d1kj6t@4ax.com>...
On Thu, 1 Jan 2004 08:53:08 -0800, "Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote:
You are limited by what your brain saw the last 5 minutes. No
comprehension
involved - or desired.
To Duke: I am convinced Kenny sees our argument but he is constipated in his
ability to clear his mental block concerning what omnisceince really means.
Oh, I'm sure he has, just as you said. He just wants to rattle his bones trying
to act out his fantasy to his atheist friends. Who I suspect are equally
knowing but afraid to show it.
Have a Happy New Year.
On the contrary dukey. You're the kind that thinks that you can sprout
wings and fly off a tall building.
Kenny L.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus did not die for anybody |
02 Jan 2004 05:05:53 PM |
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On 2 Jan 2004 02:27:26 -0800, (Kenny Leong) wrote:
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<vss8vv8438jp2gdg24amstpj4r84d1kj6t@4ax.com>...
On Thu, 1 Jan 2004 08:53:08 -0800, "Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote:
You are limited by what your brain saw the last 5 minutes. No
comprehension
involved - or desired.
To Duke: I am convinced Kenny sees our argument but he is constipated in his
ability to clear his mental block concerning what omnisceince really means.
Oh, I'm sure he has, just as you said. He just wants to rattle his bones trying
to act out his fantasy to his atheist friends. Who I suspect are equally
knowing but afraid to show it.
Have a Happy New Year.
On the contrary dukey. You're the kind that thinks that you can sprout
wings and fly off a tall building.
Nope, never tried that one. But I do have an aircraft operator's license.
Kinda out of date, but I do know how to fly.
.
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| User: "Kenny Leong" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus did not die for anybody |
02 Jan 2004 11:11:08 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<t8ubvv4t5qi76ji7btl75mmocms08vgkl7@4ax.com>...
On 2 Jan 2004 02:27:26 -0800, (Kenny Leong) wrote:
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<vss8vv8438jp2gdg24amstpj4r84d1kj6t@4ax.com>...
On Thu, 1 Jan 2004 08:53:08 -0800, "Randy Story" <rstorynw@olypen.com> wrote:
You are limited by what your brain saw the last 5 minutes. No
comprehension
involved - or desired.
To Duke: I am convinced Kenny sees our argument but he is constipated in his
ability to clear his mental block concerning what omnisceince really means.
Oh, I'm sure he has, just as you said. He just wants to rattle his bones trying
to act out his fantasy to his atheist friends. Who I suspect are equally
knowing but afraid to show it.
Have a Happy New Year.
On the contrary dukey. You're the kind that thinks that you can sprout
wings and fly off a tall building.
Nope, never tried that one. But I do have an aircraft operator's license.
Kinda out of date, but I do know how to fly.
Well, since you invent so many things, I'm truly wondering if you're
inventing this aircraft operator's license as well.
Kenny L.
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus did not die for anybody |
03 Jan 2004 06:17:18 AM |
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On 2 Jan 2004 21:11:08 -0800, (Kenny Leong) wrote:
On the contrary dukey. You're the kind that thinks that you can sprout
wings and fly off a tall building.
Nope, never tried that one. But I do have an aircraft operator's license.
Kinda out of date, but I do know how to fly.
Well, since you invent so many things, I'm truly wondering if you're
inventing this aircraft operator's license as well.
Kenny L.
I think I'll see if I can nominate you as looney atheist of the year.
.
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| User: "Kenny Leong" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus did not die for anybody |
04 Jan 2004 10:08:25 AM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<nkcdvv0esdcp0oqbchjt465gvrq234fvlk@4ax.com>...
On 2 Jan 2004 21:11:08 -0800, (Kenny Leong) wrote:
On the contrary dukey. You're the kind that thinks that you can sprout
wings and fly off a tall building.
Nope, never tried that one. But I do have an aircraft operator's license.
Kinda out of date, but I do know how to fly.
Well, since you invent so many things, I'm truly wondering if you're
inventing this aircraft operator's license as well.
Kenny L.
I think I'll see if I can nominate you as looney atheist of the year.
In the meantime, we've ALL got you nominated for biggest idiot of alt.atheism.
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus did not die for anybody |
04 Jan 2004 02:01:58 PM |
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On 4 Jan 2004 08:08:25 -0800, (Kenny Leong) wrote:
I think I'll see if I can nominate you as looney atheist of the year.
In the meantime, we've ALL got you nominated for biggest idiot of alt.atheism.
Now that I consider an honor. To be called an idiot by idiots is a real
pleasure when it comes from atheists.
.
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| User: "Kenny Leong" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus did not die for anybody |
04 Jan 2004 09:24:38 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<k7sgvv8k3aorm50sejio2ndne4ekltuk9f@4ax.com>...
On 4 Jan 2004 08:08:25 -0800, (Kenny Leong) wrote:
I think I'll see if I can nominate you as looney atheist of the year.
In the meantime, we've ALL got you nominated for biggest idiot of alt.atheism.
Now that I consider an honor. To be called an idiot by idiots is a real
pleasure when it comes from atheists.
But the thing is, I'm not an atheist dukey, you moron. Just goes to
show how much of a real idiot you are.
Kenny L.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus did not die for anybody |
05 Jan 2004 05:44:51 PM |
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On 4 Jan 2004 19:24:38 -0800, (Kenny Leong) wrote:
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<k7sgvv8k3aorm50sejio2ndne4ekltuk9f@4ax.com>...
On 4 Jan 2004 08:08:25 -0800, (Kenny Leong) wrote:
I think I'll see if I can nominate you as looney atheist of the year.
In the meantime, we've ALL got you nominated for biggest idiot of alt.atheism.
Now that I consider an honor. To be called an idiot by idiots is a real
pleasure when it comes from atheists.
But the thing is, I'm not an atheist dukey, you moron. Just goes to
show how much of a real idiot you are.
Kenny L.
You talk the talk. What else can I use?
.
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| User: "Kenny Leong" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus did not die for anybody |
06 Jan 2004 12:37:05 AM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<cmtjvvk1bogh1jnlcavq690ashifnpaplm@4ax.com>...
On 4 Jan 2004 19:24:38 -0800, (Kenny Leong) wrote:
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<k7sgvv8k3aorm50sejio2ndne4ekltuk9f@4ax.com>...
On 4 Jan 2004 08:08:25 -0800, (Kenny Leong) wrote:
I think I'll see if I can nominate you as looney atheist of the year.
In the meantime, we've ALL got you nominated for biggest idiot of alt.atheism.
Now that I consider an honor. To be called an idiot by idiots is a real
pleasure when it comes from atheists.
But the thing is, I'm not an atheist dukey, you moron. Just goes to
show how much of a real idiot you are.
Kenny L.
You talk the talk. What else can I use?
You can use nothing else. You're not capable of anything else but talking nonsense.
Kenny L.
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus did not die for anybody |
06 Jan 2004 05:35:09 PM |
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On 5 Jan 2004 22:37:05 -0800, (Kenny Leong) wrote:
But the thing is, I'm not an atheist dukey, you moron. Just goes to
show how much of a real idiot you are.
You talk the talk. What else can I use?
You can use nothing else. You're not capable of anything else but talking nonsense.
I can only rate you by what I hear from you. And that's not much.
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| User: "Kenny Leong" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus did not die for anybody |
04 Jan 2004 10:56:36 AM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<p858vvsncr79c0hqk1pehk77t0afbm7n0c@4ax.com>...
On 31 Dec 2003 07:19:27 -0800, (Kenny Leong) wrote:
Creation for 'him' is one instantaneous event? That's great...really
great. In that case, it's necessary to correct the bible. Because the
bible says that god created things in a certain number of 'days'.
That's because the bible is written in the hand of man. And those sheepherders
didn't understand the concepts of "instantaneous", but in "periods" of time.
See, you don't understand any better than those sheepherders.
the bible is wrong, then obviously it needs to be corrected because
you just said that creation for 'him' is one 'instantaneous' event. So
is the bible wrong? Or you're wrong?
**YOU** are in over your head - and that's the truth.
Don't deviate from the original topic and try to make up nonsense
dukey, you moron.
You are limited by what your brain saw the last 5 minutes. No comprehension
involved - or desired.
Once again, don't deviate from the topic and make up nonsense like you
usually do dukey, you moron.
Kenny L.
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus did not die for anybody |
04 Jan 2004 02:04:44 PM |
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On 4 Jan 2004 08:56:36 -0800, (Kenny Leong) wrote:
You are limited by what your brain saw the last 5 minutes. No comprehension
involved - or desired.
Once again, don't deviate from the topic and make up nonsense like you
usually do dukey, you moron.
Kenny L.
Merry Christmas, looney.
.
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| User: "Kenny Leong" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus did not die for anybody |
04 Jan 2004 09:27:34 PM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<sdsgvvkn5sv93lm8g83l68jgbl2atmii0e@4ax.com>...
On 4 Jan 2004 08:56:36 -0800, (Kenny Leong) wrote:
You are limited by what your brain saw the last 5 minutes. No comprehension
involved - or desired.
Once again, don't deviate from the topic and make up nonsense like you
usually do dukey, you moron.
Kenny L.
Merry Christmas, looney.
Don't merry christmas me, you nutcase.
Kenny L.
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus did not die for anybody |
05 Jan 2004 05:45:36 PM |
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On 4 Jan 2004 19:27:34 -0800, (Kenny Leong) wrote:
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<sdsgvvkn5sv93lm8g83l68jgbl2atmii0e@4ax.com>...
On 4 Jan 2004 08:56:36 -0800, (Kenny Leong) wrote:
You are limited by what your brain saw the last 5 minutes. No comprehension
involved - or desired.
Once again, don't deviate from the topic and make up nonsense like you
usually do dukey, you moron.
Kenny L.
Merry Christmas, looney.
Don't merry christmas me, you nutcase.
Kenny L.
You need help, and a good hearty Merry Christmas to you is a good place to
start.
.
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| User: "Kenny Leong" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus did not die for anybody |
06 Jan 2004 12:36:22 AM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<untjvvo99m57aspeecltdv4encu1k785lv@4ax.com>...
On 4 Jan 2004 19:27:34 -0800, (Kenny Leong) wrote:
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message news:<sdsgvvkn5sv93lm8g83l68jgbl2atmii0e@4ax.com>...
On 4 Jan 2004 08:56:36 -0800, (Kenny Leong) wrote:
You are limited by what your brain saw the last 5 minutes. No comprehension
involved - or desired.
Once again, don't deviate from the topic and make up nonsense like you
usually do dukey, you moron.
Kenny L.
Merry Christmas, looney.
Don't merry christmas me, you nutcase.
Kenny L.
You need help, and a good hearty Merry Christmas to you is a good place to
start.
BS.
Kenny L.
.
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| User: "quibbler" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus did not die for anybody |
25 Dec 2003 02:59:59 PM |
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In article <29154d7c.0312251049.18730879@posting.google.com>,
kenny_tm_leong@yahoo.com says...
Jesus did not die for anybody.
More importantly his death was superfluous in any moral or theological
sense. If he wanted to offer us some kind of super-duper, zero-interest
balance transfer of sins onto his "jesus credit card" then he could have
done that without any blood and gore whatsoever.
The answer is obvious, and it's linked
to the attributes of the christian god.
<snip>
The free will versus omnipotence angle has been worked to *death* (ooh a
pun :)). It's easier just to cast the death of jesus in terms of common
sense. Saying that the death of jesus had anything to do with the
forgiveness of sins 2000 years later is like me saying that my chihuahua
dog could die to forgive all my parking tickets if I only believed that he
was really a bull-terrier whose ***** mother was impregnated by Yahweh.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus did not die for anybody |
26 Dec 2003 04:00:37 PM |
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On 25 Dec 2003 10:49:44 -0800, (Kenny Leong) wrote:
Jesus did not die for anybody. The answer is obvious, and it's linked
to the attributes of the christian god.
If you're a all-knowing, perfect planner and perfect designer (aka the
christian 'god'), and you decide to create something, then whatever
that thing you create is nothing but your very own movements......
because it is you that chooses every single 'mechanical' movement for
the product you make in advance...so those mechanical movements are
your OWN movements since you chose them all with full knowledge before
any product is even made.
If christians believe that god is all-knowing, and is a perfect
planner, then there is no way that god can create a product with its
own freedom of movement.
The way I see it, kl, "perfect planner and perfect designer" is an atheist
original term.
It sounds like you atheists are making up your own rules so you can declare God
a no-show.
And that makes you a laughing stock.
The main point...if christians insist they
have free-will, then they better go consider how their god, with
complete knowledge and perfect planning skills
There it is again.
The conclusions are : 1) god cannot create anything with free-will, as
it would mean that the attributes (all-knowing, perfect planning)
would be contradicted.
According to your made up rules nad regulations.
You're still not any brighter than you've ever showed yourself to be.
.
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