| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"No Rest for the Wicked" |
| Date: |
08 Jan 2004 03:34:25 PM |
| Object: |
Jesus Never Existed |
The three topics which suggest that Jesus never existed are:
1. History
2. Comparative Religion
3. Solar Mythology
1. History. It's inconceivable that during the alleged time of Jesus no
one bothered to write down anything about this most extraordinary person,
yet we have nothing. Even the earliest Bible reference to Jesus dates to at
least A.D. 64, and the first Gospel, the Gospel of Mark, dates to at least
A.D. 70 (and probably to A.D. 170).
2. Comparative Religion shows that the story of Jesus already existed in
numerous religions prior to the alleged time of Jesus. Chrishna, Horus,
Orpheus, Bacchus, Osiris, Dionysus, Buddha, Apollo, Hercules, Adonis,
Ormuzd, Mithras, Indra, ‘dipus, Quetzalcoatle, etc. The motif of a Crucified
Savior was already extant prior to the alleged time of Jesus.
3. Solar Mythology shows the story of Jesus is just an allegory for the
sun passing through the Zodiac and the passage of the seasons of the year.
Jesus travels throughout his one year ministry, and the description of his
travels exactly match that of the sun traveling through the Zodiac during
the year. Here we have the origin of the Jesus story. This common origin
explains why all the stories of crucified saviors are essentially the same.
HISTORY.
If Jesus actually existed and did all the miraculous things he is said to
have done then surely many people would have written about it during and
immediately following Jesus' life. Writing was common at the time, yet an
extensive search by many scholars over centuries has turned up nothing. The
very few references to Jesus that allegedly date back to his lifetime are
clearly forgeries, forged no doubt hundreds of years later by people who
realized this embarrassing lack of evidence needed to be rectified (see
Joseph Wheless Forgery in Christianity).
http://home1.gte.net/deleyd/religion/bookr.html#WHELESS2
Even if we ignore the evidence that they are forgeries, the very small
number of these questionably authentic writings that allegedly date back to
his alleged lifetime are still far too few. There should be a huge wealth of
writing about this person that was written during his lifetime.
Jesus allegedly had crowds of thousands follow him around. Once he fed 5000
people with only a few loaves of bread and a couple of fish (Mark 6:39-44).
Later he repeated the miracle again feeding a crowd of 4000 people (Mark
8:1-9). Jesus cured sick people miraculously and raised people from the
dead. He changed water into wine at a wedding reception. He exorcised
demons. He commanded 2000 pigs to rush into a lake and drown themselves,
inciting the people of the nearby town and countryside, who asked him to
leave. (No mention is made of what happened to the poor pig hearder whose
livelihood must have been ruined. Mark 5:1-20).
Wherever Jesus went a crowd gathered and wondered in amazement who this
person was. Jesus was a very controversial person. Finally he got himself
into so much trouble that huge crowds of Jews demanded his execution. There
was a controversial trial followed by his public execution. Three days later
he is seen walking around alive again. And no one wrote any of this down
when it allegedly happened?
Even the earliest full account of Jesus in the Bible, the Gospel of Mark, is
admitted by the Catholic Church to date to at least A.D. 70, a full 40 years
after Jesus' alleged death and resurrection. (Mark makes reference to an
event that happened around A.D. 70, so it could not have been written any
earlier. Modern scholars now date the Gospels as being written near A.D.
170, a full 140 years after the alleged event, since no one makes any
reference to a Gospel of Mark, or any other Gospel, prior to this time.)
It's inconceivable that no one at the time bothered to write down anything
about the most important person in the whole of human history. Writing was
common back then. People wrote letters. Historians wrote commentaries on
current events. The Romans wrote and kept legal documents about trials. It's
considered one of the best documented periods of history. Yet no one wrote
anything about this Jesus; no one painted a portrait of this Jesus; no one
drew a sketch of this Jesus; no one cast a coin depicting this Jesus; no one
made a statue of this Jesus; no one makes any reference whatsoever to this
Jesus. The historical evidence is overwhelming‹the Jesus of the Bible never
existed.
http://home1.gte.net/deleyd/religion/appendixd.html
Comparative Religion
³For only words and forms divide the faiths of Mankind, and at heart the one
object of our desires is Life.²
‹John Denham Parsons (1896)
Comparative Religion shows that the basic story of Jesus' one year ministry
and the motif of a crucified savior already existed in numerous other
religions prior to the alleged time of Jesus. I do not extensively discuss
Comparative Religion here, as it is a topic which has already been
thoroughly researched and documented. Instead I direct your attention to
some of the excellent books which have been written on the subject. Some of
the best books were written quite a long time ago.
http://home1.gte.net/deleyd/religion/bookr.html#CR
**For a picture of the Pre-Christian Greek demigod Orpheus Bacchus
(Bakkikos) crucified, go to:
http://home1.gte.net/deleyd/religion/cr.htm
**For more on Solar Mythology and the Jesus Story, go to:
http://home1.gte.net/deleyd/religion/solarmyth/christ2002.htm
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus Never Existed |
08 Jan 2004 07:23:43 PM |
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On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 22:39:09 +0000, #1883 <spm1138@hotmail.com> wrote:
Randy Story wrote:
You guys never quit trying !! What ignorance of the facts of textual
criticism, archeaology, history and various secular writings but most of all
the new testament writings themselves. The best athenticated writings of the
entire ancient world.
But go ahead and keep your head in the sand!!
Gosh.
What a good rebuttal.
You answer all of his points AND finish two sentences with the double
exclamation point combo.
Classily done sir.
Well, what the christers lack in facts they more than make up in
punctuation and hyperbole.
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus Never Existed |
09 Jan 2004 05:27:08 AM |
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wrote:
On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 22:39:09 +0000, #1883 <spm1138@hotmail.com> wrote:
Randy Story wrote:
You guys never quit trying !! What ignorance of the facts of textual
criticism, archeaology, history and various secular writings but most of all
the new testament writings themselves. The best athenticated writings of the
entire ancient world.
But go ahead and keep your head in the sand!!
Gosh.
What a good rebuttal.
You answer all of his points AND finish two sentences with the double
exclamation point combo.
Classily done sir.
Well, what the christers lack in facts they more than make up in
punctuation and hyperbole...
....without the bible and jesus what would be left of the 'belief'?
....nothing, being a very possible reason for dreaming them up in the first place.
so many beliefs [thousands] have faded away with time as they did not have the
benefit of these inventions. at least they got something right
Bob
HK
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus Never Existed |
11 Jan 2004 10:05:57 PM |
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On 9 Jan 2004 05:27:08 -0600, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com>
posted to alt.atheism:
...without the bible and jesus what would be left of the 'belief'?
...nothing, being a very possible reason for dreaming them up in the first place.
so many beliefs [thousands] have faded away with time as they did not have the
benefit of these inventions. at least they got something right
The real invention was original sin. Without that there would be no
need for Jesus, so no need for Christianity.
--
Zymurgist # 2
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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| User: "Mekkala" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus Never Existed |
13 Jan 2004 09:44:51 AM |
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On 11 Jan 2004, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> screwed up his face,
groaned, pushed hard, and farted out the following message in
news:v77400973bgqdlb2kmccr5oen6jknie5uj@Pern.rk:
On 9 Jan 2004 05:27:08 -0600, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com>
posted to alt.atheism:
...without the bible and jesus what would be left of the 'belief'?
...nothing, being a very possible reason for dreaming them up in the
first place.
so many beliefs [thousands] have faded away with time as they did not
have the benefit of these inventions. at least they got something
right
The real invention was original sin. Without that there would be no
need for Jesus, so no need for Christianity.
Right. Convince people they're despicable filth who deserve the worst
God could imagine doing to them, and they'll beg you for a way out. On
the other hand, if you cultivate self-worth and a sense of pride and
accomplishment, people will be happy with who they are and won't need a
crutch like Christianity. The choice, for Saul of Tarsus and his
cronies, was a no-brainer.
(It's interesting to note that Judaism doesn't have quite the insistence
on man's black evil that Christianity does... )
--
Mekkala, Atheist #2148
"Atheism is ... the bed-rock of sanity in a world of madness."
--Emmett F. Fields
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus Never Existed |
13 Jan 2004 10:05:12 PM |
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On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 15:44:51 GMT, Mekkala
<joremovedathiskimtoreply@attbi.com> posted in alt.atheism:
(It's interesting to note that Judaism doesn't have quite the insistence
on man's black evil that Christianity does... )
It has pretty much none at all. Sin is a Christian invention.
--
"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but
not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."
-A. Einstein (1929 -- Einstein Archive 33-272)
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at optonline dot net
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