| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Neil Kelsey" |
| Date: |
06 Apr 2006 12:15:38 PM |
| Object: |
Jesus was a con artist if he existed - Gospel of Judas |
National Geographic magazine on Thursday unveiled an ancient manuscript
that takes a "contrarian" view of the relationship between Jesus and
Judas, the disciple who handed him over for crucifixion.
Unlike the four gospels in the Bible, this text indicates that Judas
betrayed Jesus at Jesus' request.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12186080/
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| User: "nathan_satan" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus was a con artist if he existed - Gospel of Judas |
09 Apr 2006 06:06:21 PM |
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"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1144343738.086481.203260@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
National Geographic magazine on Thursday unveiled an ancient manuscript
that takes a "contrarian" view of the relationship between Jesus and
Judas, the disciple who handed him over for crucifixion.
Unlike the four gospels in the Bible, this text indicates that Judas
betrayed Jesus at Jesus' request.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12186080/
Hahahahaha... atheists are gaining more power.
Media... such a great thing.
Btw, Jesus did not 'ask' Judas to betray him, Jesus knew
Judas was going to betray him. There is a difference.
And why wouldn't Jesus know? I mean, he is Jesus.
And Judas... Judas... is something we all, today, are.
Money grabbing *****.
But massive LOL to the National Geographic! If they
had any credibility, they definitely lost it.
(by credibility I mean; telling lies via TV screen)
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus was a con artist if he existed - Gospel of Judas |
10 Apr 2006 10:43:41 AM |
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nathan_satan wrote:
"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1144343738.086481.203260@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
National Geographic magazine on Thursday unveiled an ancient manuscript
that takes a "contrarian" view of the relationship between Jesus and
Judas, the disciple who handed him over for crucifixion.
Unlike the four gospels in the Bible, this text indicates that Judas
betrayed Jesus at Jesus' request.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12186080/
Hahahahaha... atheists are gaining more power.
Media... such a great thing.
Btw, Jesus did not 'ask' Judas to betray him, Jesus knew
Judas was going to betray him. There is a difference.
You didn't comprehend the article, did you?
And why wouldn't Jesus know? I mean, he is Jesus.
And Judas... Judas... is something we all, today, are.
Money grabbing *****.
But massive LOL to the National Geographic! If they
had any credibility, they definitely lost it.
(by credibility I mean; telling lies via TV screen)
Yeah, National Geopgraphic has such a long history of deception and
conspiracy.
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| User: "Chris Johnson" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus was a con artist if he existed - Gospel of Judas |
10 Apr 2006 11:07:49 AM |
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Neil Kelsey wrote:
nathan_satan wrote:
"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1144343738.086481.203260@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
National Geographic magazine on Thursday unveiled an ancient manuscript
that takes a "contrarian" view of the relationship between Jesus and
Judas, the disciple who handed him over for crucifixion.
Unlike the four gospels in the Bible, this text indicates that Judas
betrayed Jesus at Jesus' request.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12186080/
Hahahahaha... atheists are gaining more power.
Media... such a great thing.
Btw, Jesus did not 'ask' Judas to betray him, Jesus knew
Judas was going to betray him. There is a difference.
You didn't comprehend the article, did you?
And why wouldn't Jesus know? I mean, he is Jesus.
And Judas... Judas... is something we all, today, are.
Money grabbing *****.
But massive LOL to the National Geographic! If they
had any credibility, they definitely lost it.
(by credibility I mean; telling lies via TV screen)
Yeah, National Geopgraphic has such a long history of deception and
conspiracy.
See, if they were fair and balanced, they'd balance their facts with
suppositions.
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus was a con artist if he existed - Gospel of Judas |
06 Apr 2006 11:08:41 PM |
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"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1144343738.086481.203260@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
National Geographic magazine on Thursday unveiled an ancient manuscript
that takes a "contrarian" view of the relationship between Jesus and
Judas, the disciple who handed him over for crucifixion.
Unlike the four gospels in the Bible, this text indicates that Judas
betrayed Jesus at Jesus' request.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12186080/
Pshaw...revisionist mythology!
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus was a con artist if he existed - Gospel of Judas |
07 Apr 2006 10:36:49 AM |
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Geoff wrote:
"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1144343738.086481.203260@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
National Geographic magazine on Thursday unveiled an ancient manuscript
that takes a "contrarian" view of the relationship between Jesus and
Judas, the disciple who handed him over for crucifixion.
Unlike the four gospels in the Bible, this text indicates that Judas
betrayed Jesus at Jesus' request.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12186080/
Pshaw...revisionist mythology!
As opposed to the original mythology. It's still mythology.
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus was a con artist if he existed - Gospel of Judas |
10 Apr 2006 02:27:08 PM |
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"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1144424209.458257.199990@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Geoff wrote:
"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1144343738.086481.203260@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
National Geographic magazine on Thursday unveiled an ancient manuscript
that takes a "contrarian" view of the relationship between Jesus and
Judas, the disciple who handed him over for crucifixion.
Unlike the four gospels in the Bible, this text indicates that Judas
betrayed Jesus at Jesus' request.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12186080/
Pshaw...revisionist mythology!
As opposed to the original mythology. It's still mythology.
Thanks for explaining my joke to me.
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| User: "Walter Bushell" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus was a con artist if he existed - Gospel of Judas |
12 Apr 2006 10:09:32 AM |
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In article <x9ydnQNF-PNXeKjZRVn-qg@comcast.com>,
"Geoff" <gebobs@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:
"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1144343738.086481.203260@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
National Geographic magazine on Thursday unveiled an ancient manuscript
that takes a "contrarian" view of the relationship between Jesus and
Judas, the disciple who handed him over for crucifixion.
Unlike the four gospels in the Bible, this text indicates that Judas
betrayed Jesus at Jesus' request.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12186080/
Pshaw...revisionist mythology!
Have you heard Easter has been canceled? They found the body.
--
"The power of the Executive to cast a man into prison without formulating any
charge known to the law, and particularly to deny him the judgement of his
peers, is in the highest degree odious and is the foundation of all totali-
tarian government whether Nazi or Communist." -- W. Churchill, Nov 21, 1943
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus was a con artist if he existed - Gospel of Judas |
12 Apr 2006 12:17:28 PM |
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On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:09:32 -0400, Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <x9ydnQNF-PNXeKjZRVn-qg@comcast.com>,
"Geoff" <gebobs@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:
"Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1144343738.086481.203260@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
National Geographic magazine on Thursday unveiled an ancient manuscript
that takes a "contrarian" view of the relationship between Jesus and
Judas, the disciple who handed him over for crucifixion.
Unlike the four gospels in the Bible, this text indicates that Judas
betrayed Jesus at Jesus' request.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12186080/
Pshaw...revisionist mythology!
Have you heard Easter has been canceled? They found the body.
deep in old booty.....
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
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| User: "Ford T. FreezerClown" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus was a con artist if he existed - Gospel of Judas |
06 Apr 2006 01:44:03 PM |
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I wouldn't go so far as to call him a con artist. But then - I
wouldn't go so far as to say he existed either.
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus was a con artist if he existed - Gospel of Judas |
06 Apr 2006 01:49:04 PM |
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Ford T. FreezerClown wrote:
I wouldn't go so far as to call him a con artist. But then - I
wouldn't go so far as to say he existed either.
Staging a betrayal smacks of Benny Hinn staging a healing. Benny HInn
is a con artist.
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| User: "Ford T. FreezerClown" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus was a con artist if he existed - Gospel of Judas |
06 Apr 2006 02:04:34 PM |
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Neil Kelsey wrote:
Ford T. FreezerClown wrote:
I wouldn't go so far as to call him a con artist. But then - I
wouldn't go so far as to say he existed either.
Staging a betrayal smacks of Benny Hinn staging a healing. Benny HInn
is a con artist.
Agreed - If this manuscript can be trusted then he was the biggest
con-man in human history (although L. Ron Hubbard may someday surpass.)
If the manuscript is untrue then he could have just been a guy who
people started believing was a Messiah on their own. We know these
ancient manuscripts have a tendency to get a little, uh...TALL in their
tale-tellin'
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| User: "Llanzlan Klazmon" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus was a con artist if he existed - Gospel of Judas |
06 Apr 2006 07:43:21 PM |
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"Ford T. FreezerClown" <fordtfreezerclown@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1144350274.702203.306690@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Neil Kelsey wrote:
Ford T. FreezerClown wrote:
I wouldn't go so far as to call him a con artist. But then - I
wouldn't go so far as to say he existed either.
Staging a betrayal smacks of Benny Hinn staging a healing. Benny HInn
is a con artist.
Agreed - If this manuscript can be trusted then he was the biggest
con-man in human history
Remember that the manuscript(s) was(were) written a long time after the
alleged events. The real con men are probably the ones who wrote the
stories.
Klazmon
<SNIP>
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| User: "Ford T. FreezerClown" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus was a con artist if he existed - Gospel of Judas |
07 Apr 2006 10:23:36 AM |
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Llanzlan Klazmon wrote:
snip
Remember that the manuscript(s) was(were) written a long time after the
alleged events. The real con men are probably the ones who wrote the
stories.
Frauds or just relaying a 300 year old story that's been whispered down
the lane to the point of total fiction. In either case, the early
Christians were certainly the Mother Goose of the era.
As opposed to the Christian Right today who are the Inquisitors,
barbarians, and witch hunting Puritans of our era...
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| User: "Larry Heath" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus was a con artist if he existed - Gospel of Judas |
06 Apr 2006 06:04:36 PM |
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"Ford T. FreezerClown" <fordtfreezerclown@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1144350274.702203.306690@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Neil Kelsey wrote:
Ford T. FreezerClown wrote:
I wouldn't go so far as to call him a con artist. But then - I
wouldn't go so far as to say he existed either.
Staging a betrayal smacks of Benny Hinn staging a healing. Benny HInn
is a con artist.
Agreed - If this manuscript can be trusted then he was the biggest
con-man in human history (although L. Ron Hubbard may someday surpass.)
If the manuscript is untrue then he could have just been a guy who
people started believing was a Messiah on their own. We know these
ancient manuscripts have a tendency to get a little, uh...TALL in their
tale-tellin'
Naah, I think Muhammad has them both beat as a con man, hands down. Stole it
all from the old Jewish sources and a bit from the Christians and even the
pagans before them. Threw it all in a big pot and give it a whacking good
stir, and bang, you got the Koran. All though, you have to give L. Ron
points for making it all up from scratch, although I haven't taken a good
look at. No plagiarism for L.Ron, straight died in the wool fiction for him.
Later Larry
aa # 2216
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| User: "Ford T. FreezerClown" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus was a con artist if he existed - Gospel of Judas |
07 Apr 2006 08:11:56 AM |
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Larry Heath wrote:
Naah, I think Muhammad has them both beat as a con man, hands down. Stole it
all from the old Jewish sources and a bit from the Christians and even the
pagans before them. Threw it all in a big pot and give it a whacking good
stir, and bang, you got the Koran. All though, you have to give L. Ron
points for making it all up from scratch, although I haven't taken a good
look at. No plagiarism for L.Ron, straight died in the wool fiction for him.
Later Larry
aa # 2216
Yeah - Check out L. Ron's stuff if you get the chance. Wacky story on
why we're here (it involves spaceships!) And of course the other
religions laugh at them because as we all know it was really an
invisible man in the sky who switched the lights on and got to work...
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus was a con artist if he existed - Gospel of Judas |
07 Apr 2006 10:00:05 AM |
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Ford T. FreezerClown wrote:
Larry Heath wrote:
Naah, I think Muhammad has them both beat as a con man, hands down. Stole it
all from the old Jewish sources and a bit from the Christians and even the
pagans before them. Threw it all in a big pot and give it a whacking good
stir, and bang, you got the Koran. All though, you have to give L. Ron
points for making it all up from scratch, although I haven't taken a good
look at. No plagiarism for L.Ron, straight died in the wool fiction for him.
Later Larry
aa # 2216
Yeah - Check out L. Ron's stuff if you get the chance. Wacky story on
why we're here (it involves spaceships!) And of course the other
religions laugh at them because as we all know it was really an
invisible man in the sky who switched the lights on and got to work...
I read a biography on L Ron a number of years ago. The part that sticks
out in my mind is when, paranoid and delusional (and drug addled?) and
on his ocean liner that he lived on (because he was wanted for tax
evasion), he pulled into a tropical port and had the followers that he
had become paranoid of tossed overboard into the harbour. Including his
elderly Mother. It must have been quite a sight from the shore.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus was a con artist if he existed - Gospel of Judas |
08 Apr 2006 07:54:53 AM |
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Neil Kelsey <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in alt.atheism
I read a biography on L Ron a number of years ago. The part that sticks
out in my mind is when, paranoid and delusional (and drug addled?) and
on his ocean liner that he lived on (because he was wanted for tax
evasion), he pulled into a tropical port and had the followers that he
had become paranoid of tossed overboard into the harbour. Including
his elderly Mother. It must have been quite a sight from the shore.
No lifeboats? Just straight into the water?
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus was a con artist if he existed - Gospel of Judas |
10 Apr 2006 11:45:40 AM |
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Elroy Willis wrote:
Neil Kelsey <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com> wrote in alt.atheism
I read a biography on L Ron a number of years ago. The part that sticks
out in my mind is when, paranoid and delusional (and drug addled?) and
on his ocean liner that he lived on (because he was wanted for tax
evasion), he pulled into a tropical port and had the followers that he
had become paranoid of tossed overboard into the harbour. Including
his elderly Mother. It must have been quite a sight from the shore.
No lifeboats? Just straight into the water?
Straight in. They were docked, I think.
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| User: "Ford T. FreezerClown" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus was a con artist if he existed - Gospel of Judas |
07 Apr 2006 11:02:27 AM |
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Neil Kelsey wrote:
I read a biography on L Ron a number of years ago. The part that sticks
out in my mind is when, paranoid and delusional (and drug addled?) and
on his ocean liner that he lived on (because he was wanted for tax
evasion), he pulled into a tropical port and had the followers that he
had become paranoid of tossed overboard into the harbour. Including his
elderly Mother. It must have been quite a sight from the shore.
Have you read the latest? There are reports that Tom Cruise is having
an "adult pacifier" specially crafted for Katie Holmes when she gives
birth. Apparently Scientology prohibits women to make noise during
childbirth. So I guess gagging them during childbirth is the answer.
Un-friggin-believable
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7003075526
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus was a con artist if he existed - Gospel of Judas |
08 Apr 2006 07:57:12 AM |
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Ford T. FreezerClown wrote in alt.atheism
Neil Kelsey wrote:
I read a biography on L Ron a number of years ago. The part that sticks
out in my mind is when, paranoid and delusional (and drug addled?) and
on his ocean liner that he lived on (because he was wanted for tax
evasion), he pulled into a tropical port and had the followers that he
had become paranoid of tossed overboard into the harbour. Including his
elderly Mother. It must have been quite a sight from the shore.
Have you read the latest? There are reports that Tom Cruise is having
an "adult pacifier" specially crafted for Katie Holmes when she gives
birth. Apparently Scientology prohibits women to make noise during
childbirth. So I guess gagging them during childbirth is the answer.
Un-friggin-believable
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7003075526
Wow, it's shaped just like Tom's penis!
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus was a con artist if he existed - Gospel of Judas |
08 Apr 2006 06:27:58 PM |
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"Elroy Willis" <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:emcf32dfrtn15tep8beur0f98al80rscd4@4ax.com...
Ford T. FreezerClown wrote in alt.atheism
Neil Kelsey wrote:
I read a biography on L Ron a number of years ago. The part that sticks
out in my mind is when, paranoid and delusional (and drug addled?) and
on his ocean liner that he lived on (because he was wanted for tax
evasion), he pulled into a tropical port and had the followers that he
had become paranoid of tossed overboard into the harbour. Including his
elderly Mother. It must have been quite a sight from the shore.
Have you read the latest? There are reports that Tom Cruise is having
an "adult pacifier" specially crafted for Katie Holmes when she gives
birth. Apparently Scientology prohibits women to make noise during
childbirth. So I guess gagging them during childbirth is the answer.
Un-friggin-believable
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7003075526
Wow, it's shaped just like Tom's penis!
ELROY! You're a very naughty boy! :)
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
Atheist ***** Extraordinaire
#1557
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus was a con artist if he existed - Gospel of Judas |
08 Apr 2006 08:12:09 AM |
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On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 12:57:12 GMT, Elroy Willis
<elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
Ford T. FreezerClown wrote in alt.atheism
Neil Kelsey wrote:
I read a biography on L Ron a number of years ago. The part that sticks
out in my mind is when, paranoid and delusional (and drug addled?) and
on his ocean liner that he lived on (because he was wanted for tax
evasion), he pulled into a tropical port and had the followers that he
had become paranoid of tossed overboard into the harbour. Including his
elderly Mother. It must have been quite a sight from the shore.
Have you read the latest? There are reports that Tom Cruise is having
an "adult pacifier" specially crafted for Katie Holmes when she gives
birth. Apparently Scientology prohibits women to make noise during
childbirth. So I guess gagging them during childbirth is the answer.
Un-friggin-believable
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7003075526
Wow, it's shaped just like Tom's penis!
A ***** look like that but is bigger.
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus was a con artist if he existed - Gospel of Judas |
06 Apr 2006 03:09:29 PM |
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Ford T. FreezerClown wrote:
Neil Kelsey wrote:
Ford T. FreezerClown wrote:
I wouldn't go so far as to call him a con artist. But then - I
wouldn't go so far as to say he existed either.
Staging a betrayal smacks of Benny Hinn staging a healing. Benny HInn
is a con artist.
Agreed - If this manuscript can be trusted then he was the biggest
con-man in human history (although L. Ron Hubbard may someday surpass.)
If the manuscript is untrue then he could have just been a guy who
people started believing was a Messiah on their own. We know these
ancient manuscripts have a tendency to get a little, uh...TALL in their
tale-tellin'
I think the con artistryt might have been genetic...who do you think
the REAL father was? Virgin birth my *****. Although with Mary I think
she might have been lying to save her *****, they tended to punish
adultery severely in those days. If she existed.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus was a con artist if he existed - Gospel of Judas |
06 Apr 2006 06:33:04 PM |
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I can tell you for certain that Judas was punished with 20 years of
hell, the same term as Hitler. I have learned this from heaven while
being demon possessed. Judas was the victim of demons as well.
My term in hell, for masturbation mainly, is eternal. So you can see
that Jehovah loves to hurt people.
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| User: "Geoff" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus was a con artist if he existed - Gospel of Judas |
06 Apr 2006 11:10:21 PM |
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<agascoig@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1144366384.527117.14090@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I can tell you for certain that Judas was punished with 20 years of
hell, the same term as Hitler. I have learned this from heaven while
being demon possessed. Judas was the victim of demons as well.
My term in hell, for masturbation mainly, is eternal. So you can see
that Jehovah loves to hurt people.
Hmmm...I've never seen you post before. Nice one, rookie!
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus was a con artist if he existed - Gospel of Judas |
07 Apr 2006 09:36:24 AM |
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<agascoig@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1144366384.527117.14090@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I can tell you for certain that Judas was punished with 20 years of
hell, the same term as Hitler. I have learned this from heaven while
being demon possessed. Judas was the victim of demons as well.
My term in hell, for masturbation mainly, is eternal. So you can see
that Jehovah loves to hurt people.
I was going to rip you a new one until I read the second paragraph ;)
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
Atheist ***** Extraordinaire
#1557
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus was a con artist if he existed - Gospel of Judas |
08 Apr 2006 08:20:45 PM |
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On 6 Apr 2006 16:33:04 -0700, wrote in alt.atheism
I can tell you for certain that Judas was punished with 20 years of
hell, the same term as Hitler. I have learned this from heaven while
being demon possessed. Judas was the victim of demons as well.
My term in hell, for masturbation mainly, is eternal. So you can see
that Jehovah loves to hurt people.
Nutcase.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
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| User: "Walter Bushell" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus was a con artist if he existed - Gospel of Judas |
12 Apr 2006 10:11:02 AM |
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In article <1144350274.702203.306690@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"Ford T. FreezerClown" <fordtfreezerclown@hotmail.com> wrote:
Neil Kelsey wrote:
Ford T. FreezerClown wrote:
I wouldn't go so far as to call him a con artist. But then - I
wouldn't go so far as to say he existed either.
Staging a betrayal smacks of Benny Hinn staging a healing. Benny HInn
is a con artist.
Agreed - If this manuscript can be trusted then he was the biggest
con-man in human history (although L. Ron Hubbard may someday surpass.)
If the manuscript is untrue then he could have just been a guy who
people started believing was a Messiah on their own. We know these
ancient manuscripts have a tendency to get a little, uh...TALL in their
tale-tellin'
They weren't lying. They just could not see why facts should get in the
way of a good story.
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"The power of the Executive to cast a man into prison without formulating any
charge known to the law, and particularly to deny him the judgement of his
peers, is in the highest degree odious and is the foundation of all totali-
tarian government whether Nazi or Communist." -- W. Churchill, Nov 21, 1943
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Jesus was a con artist if he existed - Gospel of Judas |
08 Apr 2006 08:20:44 PM |
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On 6 Apr 2006 10:15:38 -0700, "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
National Geographic magazine on Thursday unveiled an ancient manuscript
that takes a "contrarian" view of the relationship between Jesus and
Judas, the disciple who handed him over for crucifixion.
Unlike the four gospels in the Bible, this text indicates that Judas
betrayed Jesus at Jesus' request.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12186080/
‘Gospel of Judas’ offers contrarian view of Jesus
Controversial manuscript authenticated as early Christian writing
MSNBC staff and news service reports
Updated: 11:00 a.m. ET April 7, 2006
WASHINGTON - An ancient manuscript rediscovered after 1,700 years takes
a "contrarian" view of the relationship between Jesus and Judas, the
disciple who handed him over for crucifixion.
Instead of portraying Judas Iscariot as a traitor, as the canonical
gospels of the New Testament do, this document — the Gospel of Judas —
indicates that he acted at the request of Jesus to help him shed his
earthly body.
“Let a vigorous debate on the significance of this fascinating ancient
text begin,” the Rev. Donald Senior, president of the Catholic
Theological Union of Chicago, said Thursday. Senior expressed doubt that
the new gospel will rival the New Testament, but allowed that opinions
are likely to differ on it.
The text helps show the diversity of beliefs in early Christianity,
added Marvin Meyer, professor of Bible studies at Chapman University in
Orange, Calif.
Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion at Princeton University,
commented that “the people who loved, circulated and wrote down these
gospels did not think they were heretics.”
Found in the 1970s in Egypt
The papyrus manuscript was written around 300 A.D. in Coptic script, and
is a copy of an earlier Greek text, said Terry Garcia of the National
Geographic Society, which made the manuscript public.
Discovered in 1970, the papyrus was kept in a safety deposit box for
several years and began to deteriorate before conservators restored it.
More than 1,000 pieces had to be reassembled. The manuscript was
authenticated through radiocarbon dating as well as ink analysis,
multispectral imaging and an analysis of the content for linguistic
style and handwriting style, National Geographic reported.
Garcia said the National Geographic Society has spent "north of a
million [dollars] and south of $2 million" on the restoration so far,
and "the bills are still coming in."
Scholars are still analyzing two other unorthodox scriptures that were
included in the same set of papyrus sheets, he said. Those works are
reportedly known as the Letter of Peter to Philip, and the Revelation of
James.
Eventually, the material will be donated to the Coptic museum in Cairo,
Egypt, so it can be available to all scholars, said Ted Waitt of the
Waitt Institute for Historical Discovery, which helped finance the
restoration.
‘Contrarian’ view of Christian climax
Unlike the four gospels in the Bible, this text indicates that Judas
betrayed Jesus at Jesus’ request. The manuscript thus represents "one of
the most unusual and contrarian" views of New Testament events, said
Bart Ehrman, a scriptural scholar at the University of North Carolina at
Chapel Hill.
The newly translated document’s text begins: “The secret account of the
revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation with Judas Iscariot.”
In a key passage Jesus tells Judas, “You will exceed all of them. For
you will sacrifice the man that clothes me.” This indicates that Judas
would help liberate the spiritual self by helping Jesus get rid of his
physical flesh, scholars said.
“Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the
kingdom,” Jesus says to Judas, singling him out for special status.
“Look, you have been told everything. Lift up your eyes and look at the
cloud and the light within it and the stars surrounding it. The star
that leads the way is your star.”
The text ends with Judas turning Jesus over to the high priests and does
not include any mention of the crucifixion or resurrection.
Long considered heresy
Experts said the author of the Gospel of Judas — most likely a Christian
scribe in the 2nd century who drew upon even earlier oral tradition —
believed that Judas Iscariot alone understood the true significance of
Jesus' teachings.
"The Gospel of Judas turns Judas' act of betrayal into an act of
obedience," Craig Evans, a New Testament scholar at Acadia Divinity
College, said in a National Geographic statement on the find. "The
sacrifice of Jesus' body of flesh in fact becomes saving. And so for
that reason, Judas emerges as the champion and he ends up being envied
and even cursed and resented by the other disciples."
Although this is the first time the actual text of the Gospel of Judas
has surfaced in modern times, its existence has been well-known to
scholars for centuries. The manuscript was first mentioned in a treatise
around A.D. 180 by a bishop, Irenaeus of Lyon, in what is now France.
The bishop denounced it as differing from mainstream Christianity and
said it produced a fictitious and heretical story.
There were several gospels in circulation at the time in addition to the
four in the Bible. When the heretical scriptures were denounced, those
who held the manuscripts hid them away. Garcia said the newly
authenticated manuscript was reportedly hidden for centuries inside a
coffinlike box within an Egyptian cave.
Gnostic scriptures
The Gospel of Judas is linked to a group called the Gnostics, who
believed that the way to salvation was through secret knowledge given by
Jesus to his inner circle.
Gnostic texts include various manuscripts attributed to figures
mentioned in the canonical gospels as well, such as Mary Magdalene and
the apostle Thomas, as well as philosophical treatises with heavy Greek
or Jewish influences. Scholars say the manuscripts were written by
believers who gradually lost out as the early Christian church became
institutionalized.
Echoing other scholars, the Catholic Theological Union's Senior said the
Gospel of Judas "reveals the diversity and vitality of early
Christianity."
"This diversity among various Christian groups was something taken for
granted in the early centuries of the church, but may be a surprise to
many people today," he told reporters.
Some of the claims from Gnostic texts — for example, the idea that Mary
Magdalene was one of Jesus' most important disciples and perhaps even
his mate — have been woven into the plot of the popular novel "The Da
Vinci Code."
Senior said the Gospel of Judas will likely spark another wave of
popular interest in the debates of the early church. "God only knows
what will be said on Sunday after this," he remarked, half-jokingly. But
in the long run, the text would have little impact on the main tenets of
present-day Christianity, he said.
"At first there will be a lot of sensation, until people start reading
the Gospel of Judas," Senior said, "and then I think the impact of this
on ordinary lives of Christian believers is going to be somewhat
minimal."
This report includes information from The Associated Press and
MSNBC.com. National Geographic Channel will air "The Gospel of Judas," a
documentary on the manuscript and its story, beginning April 9.
© 2006 MSNBC
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
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