| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Paul Abeles" |
| Date: |
28 Jan 2004 03:36:33 PM |
| Object: |
Jewish law represses woman. |
Jewish law, Islamic law, hard to tell them apart. The court cant enforce a
divorce under Jewish law, however it can try by punishment to force the man
to grant it.
w w w . h a a r e t z d a i l y . c o m
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last update - 15:46 28/01/2004
150 men refuse to grant their wives a Jewish divorce
By Gideon Alon, Haaretz Correspondent
There are currently 150 women living in Israel whose husbands refuse
to grant them a divorce, the director of the rabbinical courts, Rabbi Eli
Ben-Dahan, told the Knesset Constitution Law and Justice Committee on
Wednesday.
Ben-Dahan said that since a law was passed seven years ago giving the
rabbinical courts powers to compel recalcitrant husbands to divorce their
wives, the courts have issued 94 orders, prompting 77 men to agree to
divorce their wives.
Under Jewish law, a husband, being of sound mind and out of free will,
must place the divorce, or get, into his wife's hands in order for the
divorce to be completed. A woman is otherwise considered an "aguna", or
"chained woman", and is not free to marry.
The court has sentenced 16 men to a short period in solitary
confinement (out of which, 8 then agreed to divorce their wives), and there
are currently eight men imprisoned for refusing to divorce their wives.
These husbands can be sentenced to up to seven months in prison.
The panel also approved a bill proposed by MK Gila Finklestein to
extend the maximum period of solitary confinement from 5 to 14 days.
Finklestein said that in many cases, the punishments imposed by the
rabbinical courts are too light and extending the maximum period of solitary
confinement could help "free" the women and enable then to begin a new
chapter in their lives.
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Re: Jewish law represses woman. |
28 Jan 2004 04:02:08 PM |
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Paul Abeles wrote:
Jewish law, Islamic law, hard to tell them apart. The court cant enforce a
divorce under Jewish law, however it can try by punishment to force the man
to grant it.
w w w . h a a r e t z d a i l y . c o m
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last update - 15:46 28/01/2004
150 men refuse to grant their wives a Jewish divorce
By Gideon Alon, Haaretz Correspondent
There are currently 150 women living in Israel whose husbands refuse
to grant them a divorce, the director of the rabbinical courts, Rabbi Eli
Ben-Dahan, told the Knesset Constitution Law and Justice Committee on
Wednesday.
Ben-Dahan said that since a law was passed seven years ago giving the
rabbinical courts powers to compel recalcitrant husbands to divorce their
wives, the courts have issued 94 orders, prompting 77 men to agree to
divorce their wives.
Under Jewish law, a husband, being of sound mind and out of free will,
must place the divorce, or get, into his wife's hands in order for the
divorce to be completed. A woman is otherwise considered an "aguna", or
"chained woman", and is not free to marry.
The court has sentenced 16 men to a short period in solitary
confinement (out of which, 8 then agreed to divorce their wives), and there
are currently eight men imprisoned for refusing to divorce their wives.
These husbands can be sentenced to up to seven months in prison.
The panel also approved a bill proposed by MK Gila Finklestein to
extend the maximum period of solitary confinement from 5 to 14 days.
Finklestein said that in many cases, the punishments imposed by the
rabbinical courts are too light and extending the maximum period of solitary
confinement could help "free" the women and enable then to begin a new
chapter in their lives.
On the upside, Jewish law permits divorce. Christianity expressly forbids it,
and with the increasing Christian fundamentalism in the United States along with
the $1.5 billion in federal taxpayer's money that President Bush wants to spend
to "preserve" marriage, you can expect that, if Bush is reelected, it will be
much easier for a woman to get a divorce in Israel than it will be in the United
States.
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"If you make yourself a sheep, the wolves will eat you."
-- Benjamin Franklin
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
|
| Title: Re: Jewish law represses woman. Not really. |
28 Jan 2004 06:16:34 PM |
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"Gregory Gadow" <techbear@serv.net> wrote in message
news:40183160.E5A0ED47@serv.net...
Paul Abeles wrote:
Jewish law, Islamic law, hard to tell them apart.
Of course it's hard, if one is ignorant.
[snip]
On the upside, Jewish law permits divorce. Christianity expressly forbids
it,
and with the increasing Christian fundamentalism in the United States
along with
the $1.5 billion in federal taxpayer's money that President Bush wants to
spend
to "preserve" marriage, you can expect that, if Bush is reelected, it will
be
much easier for a woman to get a divorce in Israel than it will be in the
United
States.
Yes, I'm worried about how far he'll go, as well.
He's already struck a blow against abortion, & simultaneously showed his
complete disregard for women in his triumph over dilation & extraction
abortions. The non-existence of a clause for exemptionin the case of a
mother's life being at stake was a perfect example of his attitude.
But to revert to the original subject, Judaism glorifies women.
& there are as many men who are "chained" by a woman who refuses to accept a
get.
It's a mistake for anyone to get information on Judaism from a Jew-hater -
glad to see you didn't fall for it.
Susan
.
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| User: "Paul Abeles" |
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| Title: Re: Jewish law represses woman. Not really. |
28 Jan 2004 06:38:57 PM |
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"Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:ChYRb.226$pk1.5@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
"Gregory Gadow" <techbear@serv.net> wrote in message
news:40183160.E5A0ED47@serv.net...
Paul Abeles wrote:
Jewish law, Islamic law, hard to tell them apart.
Of course it's hard, if one is ignorant.
[snip]
On the upside, Jewish law permits divorce. Christianity expressly
forbids
it,
and with the increasing Christian fundamentalism in the United States
along with
the $1.5 billion in federal taxpayer's money that President Bush wants
to
spend
to "preserve" marriage, you can expect that, if Bush is reelected, it
will
be
much easier for a woman to get a divorce in Israel than it will be in
the
United
States.
Yes, I'm worried about how far he'll go, as well.
He's already struck a blow against abortion, & simultaneously showed his
complete disregard for women in his triumph over dilation & extraction
abortions. The non-existence of a clause for exemptionin the case of a
mother's life being at stake was a perfect example of his attitude.
But to revert to the original subject, Judaism glorifies women.
& there are as many men who are "chained" by a woman who refuses to accept
a
get.
It's a mistake for anyone to get information on Judaism from a Jew-hater -
glad to see you didn't fall for it.
Susan
Poor Susan, still following me like a bad smell and still getting her facts
second hand. As I said Susan is a second hand theist. Perhaps next she will
try Hinduism. I hope so. I'd like to see her on a bonfire.
.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
|
| Title: Re: Jewish law represses woman. Not really. |
28 Jan 2004 07:27:54 PM |
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"Paul Abeles" <nospampaabeles@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:BCYRb.32676$Wa.9798@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
"Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:ChYRb.226$pk1.5@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...
"Gregory Gadow" <techbear@serv.net> wrote in message
news:40183160.E5A0ED47@serv.net...
Paul Abeles wrote:
Jewish law, Islamic law, hard to tell them apart.
Of course it's hard, if one is ignorant.
[snip]
On the upside, Jewish law permits divorce. Christianity expressly
forbids
it,
and with the increasing Christian fundamentalism in the United States
along with
the $1.5 billion in federal taxpayer's money that President Bush wants
to
spend
to "preserve" marriage, you can expect that, if Bush is reelected, it
will
be
much easier for a woman to get a divorce in Israel than it will be in
the
United
States.
Yes, I'm worried about how far he'll go, as well.
He's already struck a blow against abortion, & simultaneously showed his
complete disregard for women in his triumph over dilation & extraction
abortions. The non-existence of a clause for exemptionin the case of a
mother's life being at stake was a perfect example of his attitude.
But to revert to the original subject, Judaism glorifies women.
& there are as many men who are "chained" by a woman who refuses to
accept
a
get.
It's a mistake for anyone to get information on Judaism from a
Jew-hater -
glad to see you didn't fall for it.
Susan
Poor Susan, still following me like a bad smell and still getting her
facts
second hand. As I said Susan is a second hand theist. Perhaps next she
will
try Hinduism. I hope so. I'd like to see her on a bonfire.
Sounds like you would be happy with a Mormon slant. "Women and children are
taught to obey their husbands and fathers, and everyone obeys the prophet.
Women who rebel may be given to another husband whom church leaders believe
can better control her, Black said. The worst, she said, are
institutionalized. "
It would seem you are following her and may be the bad smell. I recognize
her as a regular here but you I don't recognize.
.
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| User: "Paul Abeles" |
|
| Title: Re: Jewish law represses woman. |
28 Jan 2004 04:06:24 PM |
|
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"Gregory Gadow" <techbear@serv.net> wrote in message
news:40183160.E5A0ED47@serv.net...
Paul Abeles wrote:
Jewish law, Islamic law, hard to tell them apart. The court cant enforce
a
divorce under Jewish law, however it can try by punishment to force the
man
to grant it.
w w w . h a a r e t z d a i l y . c o m
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last update - 15:46 28/01/2004
150 men refuse to grant their wives a Jewish divorce
By Gideon Alon, Haaretz Correspondent
There are currently 150 women living in Israel whose husbands
refuse
to grant them a divorce, the director of the rabbinical courts, Rabbi
Eli
Ben-Dahan, told the Knesset Constitution Law and Justice Committee on
Wednesday.
Ben-Dahan said that since a law was passed seven years ago giving
the
rabbinical courts powers to compel recalcitrant husbands to divorce
their
wives, the courts have issued 94 orders, prompting 77 men to agree to
divorce their wives.
Under Jewish law, a husband, being of sound mind and out of free
will,
must place the divorce, or get, into his wife's hands in order for the
divorce to be completed. A woman is otherwise considered an "aguna", or
"chained woman", and is not free to marry.
The court has sentenced 16 men to a short period in solitary
confinement (out of which, 8 then agreed to divorce their wives), and
there
are currently eight men imprisoned for refusing to divorce their wives.
These husbands can be sentenced to up to seven months in prison.
The panel also approved a bill proposed by MK Gila Finklestein to
extend the maximum period of solitary confinement from 5 to 14 days.
Finklestein said that in many cases, the punishments imposed by
the
rabbinical courts are too light and extending the maximum period of
solitary
confinement could help "free" the women and enable then to begin a new
chapter in their lives.
On the upside, Jewish law permits divorce. Christianity expressly forbids
it,
and with the increasing Christian fundamentalism in the United States
along with
the $1.5 billion in federal taxpayer's money that President Bush wants to
spend
to "preserve" marriage, you can expect that, if Bush is reelected, it will
be
much easier for a woman to get a divorce in Israel than it will be in the
United
States.
--
Gregory Gadow
Vote 1 Dean/Kerry/Edwards?
.
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Re: Jewish law represses woman. |
28 Jan 2004 04:20:03 PM |
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Paul Abeles wrote:
Vote 1 Dean/Kerry/Edwards?
If the Democrats dug up the rotting corpse of Richard Nixon and named him their
nominee, I'd vote for him against Bush.
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"If you make yourself a sheep, the wolves will eat you."
-- Benjamin Franklin
.
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| User: "Paul Abeles" |
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| Title: Re: Jewish law represses woman. |
28 Jan 2004 04:29:19 PM |
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"Gregory Gadow" <techbear@serv.net> wrote in message
news:40183593.5958C808@serv.net...
Paul Abeles wrote:
Vote 1 Dean/Kerry/Edwards?
If the Democrats dug up the rotting corpse of Richard Nixon and named him
their
nominee, I'd vote for him against Bush.
--
Gregory Gadow
I briefly watched a doco last night about the Dean campaign. I think the
fact that he opposed the Iraq invasion has hurt him.
However who ever is chosen must really push the lies and blunders about
Iraq. US lives must be cheap for Bush and his neocons
This is a disaster for the US.
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| User: "Paul Abeles" |
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| Title: Re: Jewish law represses woman. |
28 Jan 2004 04:37:03 PM |
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"Gregory Gadow" <techbear@serv.net> wrote in message
news:40183593.5958C808@serv.net...
Paul Abeles wrote:
Vote 1 Dean/Kerry/Edwards?
If the Democrats dug up the rotting corpse of Richard Nixon and named him
their
nominee, I'd vote for him against Bush.
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
Good web site Greg
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Jewish law represses woman. |
28 Jan 2004 06:17:45 PM |
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"Gregory Gadow" <techbear@serv.net> wrote in message
news:40183593.5958C808@serv.net...
Paul Abeles wrote:
Vote 1 Dean/Kerry/Edwards?
If the Democrats dug up the rotting corpse of Richard Nixon and named him
their
nominee, I'd vote for him against Bush.
Nixon wasn't as bad as Bush.
Nixon's flaw was that he was paranoid, & allowed it to drive him over the
edge of legality.
Susan
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"If you make yourself a sheep, the wolves will eat you."
-- Benjamin Franklin
.
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| User: "Throatwarbler Mangrove" |
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| Title: Re: Jewish law represses woman. |
30 Jan 2004 11:32:16 PM |
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[alt.kook.john-iser.koff.scratch.a-choo added.]
On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:20:03 -0800, Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net>
wrote in message <40183593.5958C808@serv.net>:
Paul Abeles wrote:
Vote 1 Dean/Kerry/Edwards?
If the Democrats dug up the rotting corpse of Richard Nixon and named him their
nominee, I'd vote for him against Bush.
Be a better candidate than Clintoon was.
I see you got Tom Lehrer stuff on your website.
Denizens of alt.atheism might get a guffaw out of this -
The Vatican Rag Lyrics
Another big news story of year concerned the ecumenical council in
Rome, known as Vatican II. Among the things they did in an attempt to
make the church more commercial was to introduce the vernacular into
portions of the mass, to replace Latin, and to widen somewhat the
range of music permissible in the liturgy, but I feel that if they
really want to sell the product, in this secular age, what they ought
to do is to redo some of the liturgical music in popular song forms. I
have a modest example here. It's called The Vatican Rag.
First you get down on your knees,
Fiddle with your rosaries,
Bow your head with great respect,
And genuflect, genuflect, genuflect!
Do whatever steps you want, if
You have cleared them with the Pontiff.
Everybody say his own
Kyrie eleison,
Doin' the Vatican Rag.
Get in line in that processional,
Step into that small confessional,
There, the guy who's got religion'll
Tell you if your sin's original.
If it is, try playin' it safer,
Drink the wine and chew the wafer,
Two, four, six, eight,
Time to transubstantiate!
So get down upon your knees,
Fiddle with your rosaries,
Bow your head with great respect,
And genuflect, genuflect, genuflect!
Make a cross on your abdomen,
When in Rome do like a Roman,
Ave Maria,
Gee it's good to see ya,
Gettin' ecstatic an'
Sorta dramatic an'
Doin' the Vatican Rag!
- from
http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/The-Vatican-Rag-lyrics-Tom-Lehrer/A51AEADF4C9B32DD48256A7D00254EEF
------------------
--
"And stay off the drugs;
they're turning your brain to silly putty."
- John Iser, in _Note To Self_, 31 Mar 2002
"I am an *ex*-pothead - of nearly two years' standing."
- John Iser, mid Jan 2004.
"I'm more of an Everybody's Got Something To Hide Except For Me And My
Monkey sort of person."
- John Iser, late Jan 2004.
See failed pot-smoker John's kooky website, *updated late Jan 2004*,
before he shitcans it completely!
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~jiser/rednex_stalking.html
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| User: "Lord Calvert" |
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| Title: Re: Jewish law represses woman. |
28 Jan 2004 04:54:32 PM |
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On the upside, Jewish law permits divorce. Christianity expressly forbids it,
and with the increasing Christian fundamentalism in the United States along
with
the $1.5 billion in federal taxpayer's money that President Bush wants to
spend
to "preserve" marriage, you can expect that, if Bush is reelected, it will be
much easier for a woman to get a divorce in Israel than it will be in the
United
States.
If Bush is reelected it might even be easier for a woman to get a divorce in
AFGHANISTAN then it will be in the United States. You might want to read up on
the growing "popularity" (if you can call it that) among several southern
states in what are called "covenant marriages." These are marriages which are
specifically designed to be exceptionally hard to get divorced from, even in
cases of extreme physical abuse.
I don't think the GOP has ever studied the results of the BARNA Research
Group...a Christian survey organization. They did a study on divorce in 1999.
Turns out that the group which has the lowest divorce rate are atheists. The
groups which have some of the biggest divorce rates are white, Christian
fundamentalist southerners...the very group which is trying to put the blame on
everyone else but themselves and wants to use government to allegedly fix the
problem that they themselves have largely created.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm
Rich Goranson, Amherst, NY, USA (aa#MCMXCIX, a-vet#1)
EAC Department of Applied Rattan Use
"Without faith we might relapse into scientific or rational thinking, which
leads by a slippery slope toward constitutional democracy." - Robert Anton
Wilson
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Jewish law represses woman. |
29 Jan 2004 08:35:04 AM |
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And so upon Wed, 28 Jan 2004 22:54:32 +0000 didst Lord Calvert speak
thusly:
If Bush is reelected it might even be easier for a woman to get a divorce in
AFGHANISTAN then it will be in the United States.
Except it won't. I understand the "liberated" Afghanistan has declared
itself an Islamic Republic and is headed right back the way it came...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."
.
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| User: "Mike Painter" |
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| Title: Re: Jewish law represses woman. |
30 Jan 2004 01:12:14 AM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.01.29.14.35.04.34897@hoo.com-amikchi...
And so upon Wed, 28 Jan 2004 22:54:32 +0000 didst Lord Calvert speak
thusly:
If Bush is reelected it might even be easier for a woman to get a
divorce in
AFGHANISTAN then it will be in the United States.
Except it won't. I understand the "liberated" Afghanistan has declared
itself an Islamic Republic and is headed right back the way it came...
NPR had something on that today. I wonder how they got it past the Bush
censors.
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Jewish law represses woman. |
30 Jan 2004 08:20:57 AM |
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And so upon Fri, 30 Jan 2004 07:12:14 +0000 didst Mike Painter speak
thusly:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <y@hoo.com-amikchi> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.01.29.14.35.04.34897@hoo.com-amikchi...
And so upon Wed, 28 Jan 2004 22:54:32 +0000 didst Lord Calvert speak
thusly:
If Bush is reelected it might even be easier for a woman to get a
divorce in
AFGHANISTAN then it will be in the United States.
Except it won't. I understand the "liberated" Afghanistan has declared
itself an Islamic Republic and is headed right back the way it came...
NPR had something on that today. I wonder how they got it past the Bush
censors.
They'll just have Clear Channel and Faux News chant "liberal media" over
and over until nobody remembers...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."
.
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| User: "Emma Pease" |
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| Title: Re: Jewish law represses woman. |
28 Jan 2004 08:12:24 PM |
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In article <20040128175432.11541.00000994@mb-m12.aol.com>, Lord Calvert wrote:
If Bush is reelected it might even be easier for a woman to get a
divorce in AFGHANISTAN then it will be in the United States. You
might want to read up on the growing "popularity" (if you can call
it that) among several southern states in what are called "covenant
marriages." These are marriages which are specifically designed to
be exceptionally hard to get divorced from, even in cases of extreme
physical abuse.
I'm not sure covenant marriages mean much since enforcing the
standards would only work if you never leave the states that have
differing divorce procedures for the two types of marriage. Just as
in the past, people will still go to Nevada (or whichever state has
the easiest divorce laws) and get divorced there.
Emma
--
\----
|\* | Emma Pease Net Spinster
|_\/ Die Luft der Freiheit weht
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Jewish law represses woman. |
29 Jan 2004 08:37:11 AM |
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And so upon Thu, 29 Jan 2004 02:12:24 +0000 didst Emma Pease speak thusly:
In article <20040128175432.11541.00000994@mb-m12.aol.com>, Lord Calvert wrote:
If Bush is reelected it might even be easier for a woman to get a
divorce in AFGHANISTAN then it will be in the United States. You
might want to read up on the growing "popularity" (if you can call
it that) among several southern states in what are called "covenant
marriages." These are marriages which are specifically designed to
be exceptionally hard to get divorced from, even in cases of extreme
physical abuse.
I'm not sure covenant marriages mean much since enforcing the
standards would only work if you never leave the states that have
differing divorce procedures for the two types of marriage. Just as
in the past, people will still go to Nevada (or whichever state has
the easiest divorce laws) and get divorced there.
Except that the religious right is trying very hard to overturn full faith
and credit.
A very nasty side effect of this big fight over gay marriage is that if
you start ripping full faith and credit apart, states could refuse to
recognize divorces granted in other states. They could even potentially
refuse to recognize marriages that they don't *like.
Such as a very rabidly right wing state could refuse to recognize a second
marriage and throw people in jail for "adultery."
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."
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