| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"johac" |
| Date: |
04 Apr 2007 06:50:40 PM |
| Object: |
Joan of Arc relics fake. |
Fake relics. Like that's never happened before. The methods used to
discover the fakes are interesting though.
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Joan of Arc's relics exposed as forgery
Perfume experts help unmask remains as Egyptian mummy.
Paris - The relics of St Joan of Arc are not the remains of the
fifteenth-century French heroine after all, according to European
experts who have analysed the sacred scraps. Instead, they say the
relics are a forgery, made from the remains of an Egyptian mummy.
Joan was burned at the stake in 1431 in Rouen, Normandy. The relics were
discovered in 1867 in a jar in the attic of a Paris pharmacy, with the
inscription "Remains found under the stake of Joan of Arc, virgin of
Orleans". They were recognized by the Church, and are now housed in a
museum in Chinon that belongs to the Archdiocese of Tours.
Philippe Charlier, a forensic scientist at Raymond Poincaré Hospital in
Garches, near Paris, obtained permission to study the relics from the
French church last year. He says he was "astonished" by the results.
"I'd never have thought that it could be from a mummy."
Charlier and his colleagues didn't have much to work with: the relics
comprise a charred-looking human rib, chunks of what seem to be
carbonized wood, a 15-centimetre fragment of linen and a cat femur ‹
consistent with the medieval practice of throwing black cats onto the
pyre of supposed witches.
Sniff tests
The researchers used a battery of techniques to investigate the remains,
including mass, infrared and atomic-emission spectrometry, electron
microscopy, pollen analysis and, unusually, the help of the leading
'noses' of the perfume industry: Sylvaine Delacourte from Guerlain, and
Jean-Michel Duriez from Jean Patou.
Odour analysis is a new technique for palaeopathology, but Charlier says
that he hit on the idea after being struck by the variety of odours of
other historical corpses. Delacourte and Duriez sniffed the relics and
nine other samples of bone and hair from Charlier's lab without being
told what the samples were. They were also not allowed to confer. Both
smelled hints of 'burnt plaster' and 'vanilla' in the samples from the
relics.
The plaster smell was consistent with the fact that Joan of Arc was
burnt on a plaster stake, not a wooden one, to make the whole macabre
spectacle last longer. But vanilla is inconsistent with cremation.
"Vanillin is produced during decomposition of a body," says Charlier.
"You would find it in a mummy, but not in someone who was burnt."
I'd never have thought that it could be from a mummy.
Other, more conventional, evidence pointing to a mummy origin quickly
accumulated. Microscopic and chemical analysis of the black crust on the
rib and on the cat femur showed that they were not in fact burnt, but
were impregnated with a vegetal and mineral matrix, with no trace of
muscle, skin, fat or hair. "I see burnt remains all the time in my job,"
says Charlier. "It was obviously not burnt tissue."
The black material was, however, consistent with an embalming mix of
wood resins, bitumen and chemicals such as malachite. It was also
consistent with gypsum, which gives the mix its plaster smell. The linen
cloth had a coating characteristic of mummy wrappings. And large amounts
of pine pollen were present. Pine trees did not grow in Normandy at the
time that Joan of Arc was killed, but pine resin was used widely in
Egypt during embalming.
Two other lines of evidence seem to clinch the mummy origin. Carbon-14
analysis dated the remains to between the third and sixth centuries BC.
And the spectrometry profiles of the rib, femur and black chunks matched
those from Egyptian mummies from the period, and not those of burnt
bones.
Charlier points out that mummies were used in Europe during the Middle
Ages in pharmaceutical remedies. The 1867 discovery date also fits the
period when Joan of Arc, who had been forgotten for centuries, was
rediscovered by historians and created as a national myth. Someone might
have forged the relics at this time in an attempt to reinforce her
importance.
"It is a fascinating project," says Anastasia Tsaliki, a
palaeopathologist at the University of Durham, UK. Palaeopathology is a
small but emerging field that attempts to use forensic science to inform
history, traditionally a social science. "Philippe's work goes a step
further by showing how forensic methods can be combined with tools used
in archaeometry, archaeobotany and osteology," says Tsaliki.
Fire-proof organs
Part of the legend of Joan of Arc springs from the observation,
documented in historical records, that some of her organs resisted the
fire. Hundreds of pages of surviving manuscripts describe in vivid
detail how she was burnt three times over to try to ensure that nothing
but ash remained, and so prevent her remains being worshipped. The
observation of remaining organs was interpreted as a miracle.
But science has another explanation. "In fact, it is very difficult to
totally cremate a body; organs such as the heart and intestines, which
have a high water content, are very resistant to fire," says Charlier.
"We see it all the time in forensics."
Debunking the relics of Joan of Arc will be less controversial than
doing the same for the Shroud of Turin, but is still likely to generate
large public interest, especially in France. The Church is ready to
accept the results, according to Charlier.
---
http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070402/full/446593a.html
--
John #1782
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order.
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Joan of Arc relics fake. |
04 Apr 2007 09:48:25 PM |
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On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:50:40 -0700, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Part of the legend of Joan of Arc springs from the observation,
documented in historical records, that some of her organs resisted the
fire. Hundreds of pages of surviving manuscripts describe in vivid
detail how she was burnt three times over to try to ensure that nothing
but ash remained, and so prevent her remains being worshipped. The
observation of remaining organs was interpreted as a miracle.
And, since there was no Joan of Arc, they created one. Just like they
create all the other "evidence" they have supporting their myth.
Debunking the relics of Joan of Arc will be less controversial than
doing the same for the Shroud of Turin, but is still likely to generate
large public interest, especially in France. The Church is ready to
accept the results, according to Charlier.
As long as the "results" support the myth.
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Joan of Arc relics fake. |
05 Apr 2007 12:08:18 AM |
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In article <joo813hfhaii0fibt38l9nvsm3uu1fa8f3@4ax.com>,
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:
On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 16:50:40 -0700, johac
<jhachmann@remove.sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Part of the legend of Joan of Arc springs from the observation,
documented in historical records, that some of her organs resisted the
fire. Hundreds of pages of surviving manuscripts describe in vivid
detail how she was burnt three times over to try to ensure that nothing
but ash remained, and so prevent her remains being worshipped. The
observation of remaining organs was interpreted as a miracle.
And, since there was no Joan of Arc, they created one. Just like they
create all the other "evidence" they have supporting their myth.
Just like they find 'evidence' for Jesus.
Debunking the relics of Joan of Arc will be less controversial than
doing the same for the Shroud of Turin, but is still likely to generate
large public interest, especially in France. The Church is ready to
accept the results, according to Charlier.
As long as the "results" support the myth.
Yes. The church knew that the Shroud of Turin was a forgery in the 14th
century shortly after it first appeared, a local bishop investigated and
even got an admission from the forger. Nevertheless many continued to
believe in it because they wanted it to be real.
http://www.atheistsunited.org/wordsofwisdom/Edwards/shroud.html
http://www.freeinquiry.com/skeptic/shroud/as/schafersman.html
--
John #1782
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be
white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
- Saint Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556) Founder of the Jesuit Order.
.
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