| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"JTEM" |
| Date: |
21 Apr 2007 07:05:39 PM |
| Object: |
John Kerry Rises Again |
Saw John Kerry today, together with his lovely wife,
during a talk/signing session for their new book on
the environment.
For anyone afraid he's trying to squeeze into Al Gore's
territory: Relax. Al Gore wrote the forward for the book.
I have to say that I was a little surprised by John Kerry.
Then again, if us native New Englanders who've known
him since his days as Lt. Governor rarely see him
without the same media filters that the rest of the nation
see him through. Anyhow, this was exactly the John
Kerry you were routing for in 04, and thought you only
wished existed.
This was a strong John Kerry, unafraid to tell people
what they didn't want to hear, but an intelligent &
articulate John Kerry who could (and did) offer very good
reasons for doing so.
The most relevant (for alt.atheism) example was when
someone asked him about selling/phrasing the environment
as a moral issue.... a rather obvious strategy for reaching
the Reich wing crowd. As John Kerry pointed out, that only
works if they believe the science. If they don't believe the
science then there's no issue in their minds to speak of,
moral or otherwise.
I'm not sure I agree with the Senator on that one. I mean,
he's right about the wing nuts not believing the science,
but he's doubting (or seriously downplaying) the hearding
instincts of the Reich wing sheep. That is, if they hear
enough people phrasing the environment in moral terms
then, for them, it becomes a moral issue.
Still, I have to admire his giving an answer that was clearly
not desired.
Other issues, though far less relevant here, where a local
issue concerning a wind farm & nuclear energy... both of
which I agreed with him on, though perhaps not entirely
for the same reasons.
I won't bore you with the local issue, but he told a large
crowd (one that I would conservatively estimate to be
close to 90% anti-nuclear) that, yes, nuclear energy was
going to be a part of our near-term national energy strategy.
We simply have no choice.
Not his words -- he spoke more generically -- but one
reality I can think of is how the promise of ethanol has
already raised food prices across the Americas (both
continents), yet is still incapable of so much as meeting
our annual increase in demand for oil... never mind replace
any oil we are already importing.
Anyways, talking about nuclear energy to this crowd may
have taken some guts, but what took real balls was the
fact that he didn't sugar coat it in the least. He told everyone
flat out that, long term, with all the expense of building
nuclear reactors & storing the waste, there's no way that
nuclear energy will be able to compete with future
technologies. It's just plain too expensive.
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| User: "Codebreaker" |
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| Title: Re: John Kerry Rises Again |
22 Apr 2007 09:34:41 PM |
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He will never be PRESIDENT of the United States Of America
no matter how he rises. Is it not that pitiful???
On Apr 21, 8:05 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
Saw John Kerry today, together with his lovely wife,
during a talk/signing session for their new book on
the environment.
For anyone afraid he's trying to squeeze into Al Gore's
territory: Relax. Al Gore wrote the forward for the book.
I have to say that I was a little surprised by John Kerry.
Then again, if us native New Englanders who've known
him since his days as Lt. Governor rarely see him
without the same media filters that the rest of the nation
see him through. Anyhow, this was exactly the John
Kerry you were routing for in 04, and thought you only
wished existed.
This was a strong John Kerry, unafraid to tell people
what they didn't want to hear, but an intelligent &
articulate John Kerry who could (and did) offer very good
reasons for doing so.
The most relevant (for alt.atheism) example was when
someone asked him about selling/phrasing the environment
as a moral issue.... a rather obvious strategy for reaching
the Reich wing crowd. As John Kerry pointed out, that only
works if they believe the science. If they don't believe the
science then there's no issue in their minds to speak of,
moral or otherwise.
I'm not sure I agree with the Senator on that one. I mean,
he's right about the wing nuts not believing the science,
but he's doubting (or seriously downplaying) the hearding
instincts of the Reich wing sheep. That is, if they hear
enough people phrasing the environment in moral terms
then, for them, it becomes a moral issue.
Still, I have to admire his giving an answer that was clearly
not desired.
Other issues, though far less relevant here, where a local
issue concerning a wind farm & nuclear energy... both of
which I agreed with him on, though perhaps not entirely
for the same reasons.
I won't bore you with the local issue, but he told a large
crowd (one that I would conservatively estimate to be
close to 90% anti-nuclear) that, yes, nuclear energy was
going to be a part of our near-term national energy strategy.
We simply have no choice.
Not his words -- he spoke more generically -- but one
reality I can think of is how the promise of ethanol has
already raised food prices across the Americas (both
continents), yet is still incapable of so much as meeting
our annual increase in demand for oil... never mind replace
any oil we are already importing.
Anyways, talking about nuclear energy to this crowd may
have taken some guts, but what took real balls was the
fact that he didn't sugar coat it in the least. He told everyone
flat out that, long term, with all the expense of building
nuclear reactors & storing the waste, there's no way that
nuclear energy will be able to compete with future
technologies. It's just plain too expensive.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: John Kerry Rises Again |
26 Apr 2007 01:10:06 PM |
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Not much action in this group.
There is more discussion here: [url=http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/
tt.asp?forumid=8]General Discussion[/url]
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| User: "Mr. Mxyztplk" |
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| Title: Re: John Kerry Rises Again |
26 Apr 2007 05:20:13 PM |
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In article <1177611006.479479.225510@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
wrote:
Not much action in this group.
There is more discussion here: [url=http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/
tt.asp?forumid=8]General Discussion[/url]
Is it true that John Kerry now wants to jump back in to the Presidential
race?
It was a Drudge rumor on his radio show last weekend that Kerry is
considering getting back in.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: John Kerry Rises Again |
26 Apr 2007 10:18:30 PM |
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"Mr. Mxyztplk" <u...@foobar.com.invalid> wrote:
Is it true that John Kerry now wants to jump back in
to the Presidential race?
No. Well, it's not true that he's considering it. His Senate
seat is up in 08.
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| User: "Ole redneck" |
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| Title: Re: John Kerry Rises Again |
26 Apr 2007 06:13:15 PM |
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On Apr 22, 9:34 pm, Codebreaker <Codebrea...@bigsecret.com> wrote:
He will never be PRESIDENT of the United States Of America
no matter how he rises. Is it not that pitiful???
On Apr 21, 8:05 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
Saw John Kerry today, together with his lovely wife,
during a talk/signing session for their new book on
the environment.
Please the next time you see him, drive a stake thru his heart before
he and the troll, he calls a wife can screw up another american
election.
Horseface and ketchup girl need to mosey on back to the I -de- ho
chalet, to at least give the Democratic party, a chance to win the
national election.
For anyone afraid he's trying to squeeze into Al Gore's
territory: Relax. Al Gore wrote the forward for the book.
I have to say that I was a little surprised by John Kerry.
Then again, if us native New Englanders who've known
him since his days as Lt. Governor rarely see him
without the same media filters that the rest of the nation
see him through. Anyhow, this was exactly the John
Kerry you were routing for in 04, and thought you only
wished existed.
This was a strong John Kerry, unafraid to tell people
what they didn't want to hear, but an intelligent &
articulate John Kerry who could (and did) offer very good
reasons for doing so.
The most relevant (for alt.atheism) example was when
someone asked him about selling/phrasing the environment
as a moral issue.... a rather obvious strategy for reaching
the Reich wing crowd. As John Kerry pointed out, that only
works if they believe the science. If they don't believe the
science then there's no issue in their minds to speak of,
moral or otherwise.
I'm not sure I agree with the Senator on that one. I mean,
he's right about the wing nuts not believing the science,
but he's doubting (or seriously downplaying) the hearding
instincts of the Reich wing sheep. That is, if they hear
enough people phrasing the environment in moral terms
then, for them, it becomes a moral issue.
Still, I have to admire his giving an answer that was clearly
not desired.
Other issues, though far less relevant here, where a local
issue concerning a wind farm & nuclear energy... both of
which I agreed with him on, though perhaps not entirely
for the same reasons.
I won't bore you with the local issue, but he told a large
crowd (one that I would conservatively estimate to be
close to 90% anti-nuclear) that, yes, nuclear energy was
going to be a part of our near-term national energy strategy.
We simply have no choice.
Not his words -- he spoke more generically -- but one
reality I can think of is how the promise of ethanol has
already raised food prices across the Americas (both
continents), yet is still incapable of so much as meeting
our annual increase in demand for oil... never mind replace
any oil we are already importing.
Anyways, talking about nuclear energy to this crowd may
have taken some guts, but what took real balls was the
fact that he didn't sugar coat it in the least. He told everyone
flat out that, long term, with all the expense of building
nuclear reactors & storing the waste, there's no way that
nuclear energy will be able to compete with future
technologies. It's just plain too expensive.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: John Kerry Rises Again |
26 Apr 2007 10:25:02 PM |
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Ole redneck <tnbrac...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Please the next time you see him, drive a stake thru
his heart before he and the troll, he calls a wife can
screw up another american election.
Speaking of worthless trolls, dear worthless troll...
The details of the 04 election did come up at his talk.
No, he didn't bring it up, someone from the audience,
asking a question, did.
As he explained -- to the suprise of some of the
media-informed members of the crowd -- he had not
conceeded the race until Wednesday, and only then
after the 5,000 lawyers had been consulted.
Yes, they literally had 5,000 lawyers.
The problem with contesting the election was that, at
that time (and for some time AFTER the election), they
simply had no basis for a challenge. They knew how
many uncounted votes "officially" existed, they knew
how many votes they needed to verse the results, and
they simply did not have a compelling case.
Voter REPRESSION on the other hand -- keeping people
from actually voting -- accounted for well more than enough
to make a case. But even the evidence for that was lacking
in those days following the election.
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| User: "Rick" |
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| Title: Re: John Kerry Rises Again |
22 Apr 2007 03:43:16 AM |
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JTEM wrote in message
<1177200339.067459.317460@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>...
Saw John Kerry today, together with his lovely wife,
during a talk/signing session for their new book on
the environment.
Ok, I thought you were going to say he replaced Bob Dole as the Viagra
spokesman.
Speaking of the environment, I hope he converts his fleet of SUVs to
biodiesel or junks them for hybrids. I also hope he quits using his wife's
monster gas guzzling boat to take him out into the ocean for windsurfing.
- Rick
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: John Kerry Rises Again |
22 Apr 2007 01:09:31 PM |
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"Rick" <pl1_alpha_g...@juNOSPAM.com> wrote:
Speaking of the environment, I hope he converts his fleet
of SUVs to biodiesel or junks them for hybrids. I also
hope he quits using his wife's monster gas guzzling boat
to take him out into the ocean for windsurfing.
I didn't mention it -- there wasn't a heck of a lot of alt.atheism
relevance -- but they did speak of their own consumption.
Like I said, this was a different John Kerry than the one the
media fed you.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: John Kerry Rises Again |
29 Apr 2007 02:29:51 AM |
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On 22 Apr 2007 11:09:31 -0700, JTEM <jtem01@gmail.com> wrote:
"Rick" <pl1_alpha_g...@juNOSPAM.com> wrote:
Speaking of the environment, I hope he converts his fleet
of SUVs to biodiesel or junks them for hybrids. I also
hope he quits using his wife's monster gas guzzling boat
to take him out into the ocean for windsurfing.
I didn't mention it -- there wasn't a heck of a lot of alt.atheism
relevance -- but they did speak of their own consumption.
Well there ya go.
He confessed hence he's absolved.
Praise Jesus!
Like I said, this was a different John Kerry than the one the
media fed you.
Yeah, that was the one that he fed you.
And you swallowed it whole.
atheist@home#1554
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: John Kerry Rises Again |
29 Apr 2007 12:52:00 PM |
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wrote:
I didn't mention it -- there wasn't a heck of a lot of alt.atheism
relevance -- but they did speak of their own consumption.
Well there ya go.
He confessed hence he's absolved.
Praise Jesus!
Huh? Are you so desperate to find fault in anyone that's not
a Republican that you're inventing ***** to complain about?
It's wrong to drive? It's wrong to fly?
You worthless loser, who the hell do you think you're kidding?
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: John Kerry Rises Again |
22 Apr 2007 04:53:26 AM |
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Rick wrote:
JTEM wrote in message
<1177200339.067459.317460@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>...
Saw John Kerry today, together with his lovely wife,
during a talk/signing session for their new book on
the environment.
Ok, I thought you were going to say he replaced Bob Dole as the Viagra
spokesman.
Speaking of the environment, I hope he converts his fleet of SUVs to
biodiesel or junks them for hybrids. I also hope he quits using his wife's
monster gas guzzling boat to take him out into the ocean for windsurfing.
Yes, because it's impossible for Kerry to help the environment while he
has a fleet of SUVs. He is unable to lower CAFE standards and reduce
greenhouse gas emissions because...what...he has a boat?
--
******************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*----------------------------------------------------*
* "In every country and every age, the priest had *
* been hostile to Liberty." --Thomas Jefferson *
******************************************************
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| User: "Rick" |
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| Title: Re: John Kerry Rises Again |
22 Apr 2007 05:01:52 AM |
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DanielSan wrote in message ...
Rick wrote:
JTEM wrote in message
<1177200339.067459.317460@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>...
Saw John Kerry today, together with his lovely wife,
during a talk/signing session for their new book on
the environment.
Ok, I thought you were going to say he replaced Bob Dole as the Viagra
spokesman.
Speaking of the environment, I hope he converts his fleet of SUVs to
biodiesel or junks them for hybrids. I also hope he quits using his
wife's
monster gas guzzling boat to take him out into the ocean for windsurfing.
Yes, because it's impossible for Kerry to help the environment while he
has a fleet of SUVs.
That is not a rational response to what I said. Would it be so awful for him
to practice what he preaches and lead by example?
He is unable to lower CAFE standards and reduce
greenhouse gas emissions because...what...he has a boat?
Do practice being obtuse? The guy is a total hypocrite! And I get sick of
your kind of rationalizing. You know damn well that if he were a
conservative, he'd get attacked for being a hypocrit. This sort of stuff is
why I find myself increasingly agreeing with whoever it was that said "I
hate conservatives, but I really hate liberals." The issue of personal
responsibility towards the environment is extremely personal ofr me, and was
one of the main reasons I didn't vote for Kerry - I would have voted for
Edwards/Kerry. It's a long story, but a few years ago I got stuck having to
spend a huge amount of money fixing the pollution control stuff on my very
old car. This kept me from being able to buy a newer car, and of course,
since then I've had a lot of expensive repairs. It's a very serious problem
for me because of my arthritis. I want to file assault and battery charges
against my car every time I go through painful contortions getting in and
out. And with manual everything, it's often very painful to drive. I
desperately need a much larger vehicle, like an evil van or SUV, and have
thought about writing Kerry to see if he would be willing to give me one of
his large fleet of SUVs until I can get one of my own (just one SUV, not a
large fleet).
I have the same attitude towards John Edwards and his Super Ultra Hyper
Massive Mega Monster McMansion. Damn rich folks.
BTW, he doesn't just have "a boat", it's a $500,000 monster yacht.
- Rick, thinking of voting for Kucinich next presidential election. Or maybe
even Nader.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: John Kerry Rises Again |
22 Apr 2007 01:27:26 PM |
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"Rick" <pl1_alpha_g...@juNOSPAM.com> wrote:
That is not a rational response to what I said. Would it be so
awful for him to practice what he preaches and lead by
example?
Like I said, I didn't mention it before (I didn't think it was
relevant) but they did discuss their own consumption.
This was a guy who wasn't afraid to tell a bunch of granola
crunchy liberals that, yes, nuclear energy is hyper
expensive, can't compete with future technologies and
has all kinds of problems with waste, but we're going to
have to accept it as part of our near-term energy strategies
because there's NOTHING to replace it yet.
That took a LOT more guts than discussing their own
heavy consumption.
Heck, besides houses & boats, his wife INTRODUCED all
the airtravel she in particular does. She talked about her
need to cut her travel in half.
Believe me, you're thinking SMALL TIME. If everyone like
them cut their air travel in half, like they talked about,
that would be enough to ground dozens of planes a year,
saving thousands upon thousands of gallons of fuel... more
than every SUV in Washington uses in a year.
ONE 737 holds over 5,000 gallons of fuel, and uses about
3 gallons a minute. It also happens to be one of the smaller
and most fuel efficient jet liners.
As far as Kerry's SUV goes, it's doubtful that any alternative
would be the least bit fuel efficient. If he has even minimal
bullet proofing, there's no way any of the commercial hybrids
can power it. There are factory-produced sedan alternatives
(Mercedes offers one or more), but they're gas guzzlers.
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| User: "Rick" |
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| Title: Re: John Kerry Rises Again |
22 Apr 2007 03:29:58 PM |
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JTEM wrote in message
<1177266446.425573.246200@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>...
"Rick" <pl1_alpha_g...@juNOSPAM.com> wrote:
That is not a rational response to what I said. Would it be so
awful for him to practice what he preaches and lead by
example?
Like I said, I didn't mention it before (I didn't think it was
relevant) but they did discuss their own consumption.
And hope he produces positive results. And by that I don't mean just paying
off his guilt liek Gore did.
As far as Kerry's SUV goes, it's doubtful that any alternative
would be the least bit fuel efficient. If he has even minimal
bullet proofing, there's no way any of the commercial hybrids
can power it. There are factory-produced sedan alternatives
(Mercedes offers one or more), but they're gas guzzlers.
I'm sympathetic to his needs, as well as many public figures. And given that
he is very tall, I wouldn't expect him to drive a Prius. But could take
positive steps like using bio-diesel.
- Rick
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: John Kerry Rises Again |
22 Apr 2007 09:17:22 PM |
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"Rick" <pl1_alpha_g...@juNOSPAM.com> wrote:
And hope he produces positive results. And by that I don't
mean just paying off his guilt liek Gore did.
Gore was an environmentalist before you even had dreams of
your first pubic hair.
As far as Kerry's SUV goes, it's doubtful that any alternative
would be the least bit fuel efficient. If he has even minimal
bullet proofing, there's no way any of the commercial hybrids
can power it. There are factory-produced sedan alternatives
(Mercedes offers one or more), but they're gas guzzlers.
I'm sympathetic to his needs, as well as many public figures.
And given that he is very tall, I wouldn't expect him to drive a
Prius. But could take positive steps like using bio-diesel.
What makes you think he doesn't want to? Biodiesels were one
of the alternatives he mentioned. He was most enthusiestic about
a new plant (which he supports) which WILL NOT be using corn.
"Biodiesel" itself is a bit of a distraction. It has already raised
the
price of food across the Americas (both continents) because corn
isn't just an important food by itself, but it's a major source of
feed for livestock. Yet, for all its economic impact, it is unable to
even account for the expected INCREASE in demand for fuels.
Corn is the major raw material for biodeisel fuel right now, but it
is by no means the most efficient crop for the purpose.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: John Kerry Rises Again |
24 Apr 2007 01:48:25 AM |
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JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
"Biodiesel" itself is a bit of a distraction. It has already raised
the price of food across the Americas (both continents)
because corn isn't just an important food by itself, but it's a
major source of feed for livestock. Yet, for all its economic
impact, it is unable to even account for the expected
INCREASE in demand for fuels.
Oops. that should read "Biofuels." It really doesn;t matter
whether we're speaking of biodiesel or ethanol. The point is,
it's pretty much corn-centric right now, with the sole
exception of soybeans.
Funny thing is, turning corn & soybeans into biofuels is
just the sort of thing that a well intentioned (though
perhaps media-informed) person might support whole
heartedly. But corn isn't necessarily the best crop. Bush's
famous "Switchgrass" is far better from a greenhouse gas
emissions standpoint. Here's a story on the issue:
http://www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?cntn_id=108206
We want to do the wrong thing, and after all these years
of Bush we're hungry for change. But we've got to remember
that we're not the religious Reich and it is our heads, not
our hearts, which should be dictating our actions.
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: John Kerry Rises Again |
22 Apr 2007 01:45:20 PM |
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Rick wrote:
DanielSan wrote in message ...
Rick wrote:
JTEM wrote in message
<1177200339.067459.317460@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>...
Saw John Kerry today, together with his lovely wife,
during a talk/signing session for their new book on
the environment.
Ok, I thought you were going to say he replaced Bob Dole as the Viagra
spokesman.
Speaking of the environment, I hope he converts his fleet of SUVs to
biodiesel or junks them for hybrids. I also hope he quits using his
wife's
monster gas guzzling boat to take him out into the ocean for windsurfing.
Yes, because it's impossible for Kerry to help the environment while he
has a fleet of SUVs.
That is not a rational response to what I said. Would it be so awful for him
to practice what he preaches and lead by example?
No, it wouldn't. However, it also doesn't preclude him from helping the
environment.
He is unable to lower CAFE standards and reduce
greenhouse gas emissions because...what...he has a boat?
Do practice being obtuse? The guy is a total hypocrite!
So? I've never defended Kerry's hypocrisy. I'm just trying to figure
out how that hypocrisy makes him unable to do what is needed in the
grander scheme of things.
And I get sick of
your kind of rationalizing. You know damn well that if he were a
conservative, he'd get attacked for being a hypocrit.
Of course. And I am attacking him for his hypocrisy. Just not in this
thread.
This sort of stuff is
why I find myself increasingly agreeing with whoever it was that said "I
hate conservatives, but I really hate liberals."
I think there's too much "hate" in the world. I hate neither
conservatives or liberals. In fact, I love liberals and just find
conservatives misguided.
I am a liberal and want Kerry to practice what he preaches, but I'm
still not getting what makes that stop him from helping out.
The issue of personal
responsibility towards the environment is extremely personal ofr me, and was
one of the main reasons I didn't vote for Kerry - I would have voted for
Edwards/Kerry.
So, it was better to not vote for Kerry for your own personal
convictions and allow Bush to win by default?
It's a long story, but a few years ago I got stuck having to
spend a huge amount of money fixing the pollution control stuff on my very
old car. This kept me from being able to buy a newer car, and of course,
since then I've had a lot of expensive repairs. It's a very serious problem
for me because of my arthritis. I want to file assault and battery charges
against my car every time I go through painful contortions getting in and
out. And with manual everything, it's often very painful to drive. I
desperately need a much larger vehicle, like an evil van or SUV, and have
thought about writing Kerry to see if he would be willing to give me one of
his large fleet of SUVs until I can get one of my own (just one SUV, not a
large fleet).
I have the same attitude towards John Edwards and his Super Ultra Hyper
Massive Mega Monster McMansion. Damn rich folks.
BTW, he doesn't just have "a boat", it's a $500,000 monster yacht.
I agree with you 100%, except for the fact that, you're still not
explaining to me how all of this still stops him from being a good
friend to the environment?
Please tell me how this is because I'm just not getting it.
This isn't a liberal or a conservative issue. If a super-hard
right-wing Religious Conservative did exactly the same as Kerry, but
still helped the environment, I'd be saying the same thing; trying to
figure out why hypocrisy precludes action.
- Rick, thinking of voting for Kucinich next presidential election. Or maybe
even Nader.
Unless Kucinich is going to get the nomination (not going to happen, I
fear), a vote for either is a vote for the worser of two evils.
Currently, in this broken two-party system, if you vote for a third
party, that vote will most likely go to the opposing party; a two-party
automatically makes it a race of the lesser-of-two-evils.
Sorry to be a sourpuss, but that's the way it is. A vote for Nader is a
vote for the Republican. Your voting your convictions will only help
your political enemy; and we cannot afford that. Not right now.
--
******************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*----------------------------------------------------*
* "In every country and every age, the priest had *
* been hostile to Liberty." --Thomas Jefferson *
******************************************************
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: John Kerry Rises Again |
22 Apr 2007 01:34:43 PM |
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DanielSan <daniel-...@myrealbox.com> wrote:
Rick wrote:
Do practice being obtuse? The guy is a total hypocrite!
So? I've never defended Kerry's hypocrisy.
Oddly, this isn't an example of hypocrisy. Fact is, there is no
solution -- no improvement -- without a national policy behind
it, and there is no national policy.
Seriously, pretending that it's hypocritical to live as if there
were a national policy, when there isn't one, goes beyond
hyperbole and into a psychotic episode.
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: John Kerry Rises Again |
22 Apr 2007 03:53:43 PM |
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JTEM wrote:
DanielSan <daniel-...@myrealbox.com> wrote:
Rick wrote:
Do practice being obtuse? The guy is a total hypocrite!
So? I've never defended Kerry's hypocrisy.
Oddly, this isn't an example of hypocrisy. Fact is, there is no
solution -- no improvement -- without a national policy behind
it, and there is no national policy.
Seriously, pretending that it's hypocritical to live as if there
were a national policy, when there isn't one, goes beyond
hyperbole and into a psychotic episode.
Well, I don't think Ricky would be happy until Kerry goes the Daryl
Hannah route.
--
******************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*----------------------------------------------------*
* "In every country and every age, the priest had *
* been hostile to Liberty." --Thomas Jefferson *
******************************************************
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| User: "Rick" |
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| Title: Re: John Kerry Rises Again |
22 Apr 2007 03:43:50 PM |
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DanielSan wrote in message ...
JTEM wrote:
DanielSan <daniel-...@myrealbox.com> wrote:
Rick wrote:
Do practice being obtuse? The guy is a total hypocrite!
So? I've never defended Kerry's hypocrisy.
Oddly, this isn't an example of hypocrisy. Fact is, there is no
solution -- no improvement -- without a national policy behind
it, and there is no national policy.
Seriously, pretending that it's hypocritical to live as if there
were a national policy, when there isn't one, goes beyond
hyperbole and into a psychotic episode.
Well, I don't think Ricky would be happy until Kerry goes the Daryl
Hannah route.
Getting a large pair of breasts? You'll have to explain this.
- Rick
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: John Kerry Rises Again |
22 Apr 2007 04:54:44 PM |
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Rick wrote:
DanielSan wrote in message ...
JTEM wrote:
DanielSan <daniel-...@myrealbox.com> wrote:
Rick wrote:
Do practice being obtuse? The guy is a total hypocrite!
So? I've never defended Kerry's hypocrisy.
Oddly, this isn't an example of hypocrisy. Fact is, there is no
solution -- no improvement -- without a national policy behind
it, and there is no national policy.
Seriously, pretending that it's hypocritical to live as if there
were a national policy, when there isn't one, goes beyond
hyperbole and into a psychotic episode.
Well, I don't think Ricky would be happy until Kerry goes the Daryl
Hannah route.
Getting a large pair of breasts? You'll have to explain this.
Oy, no. Hannah is "off the grid". She has a zero carbon footprint.
--
******************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*----------------------------------------------------*
* "In every country and every age, the priest had *
* been hostile to Liberty." --Thomas Jefferson *
******************************************************
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| User: "Rick" |
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| Title: Re: John Kerry Rises Again |
22 Apr 2007 03:42:07 PM |
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DanielSan wrote in message ...
Rick wrote:
DanielSan wrote in message ...
Rick wrote:
JTEM wrote in message
<1177200339.067459.317460@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>...
Saw John Kerry today, together with his lovely wife,
during a talk/signing session for their new book on
the environment.
Ok, I thought you were going to say he replaced Bob Dole as the Viagra
spokesman.
Speaking of the environment, I hope he converts his fleet of SUVs to
biodiesel or junks them for hybrids. I also hope he quits using his
wife's
monster gas guzzling boat to take him out into the ocean for
windsurfing.
Yes, because it's impossible for Kerry to help the environment while he
has a fleet of SUVs.
That is not a rational response to what I said. Would it be so awful for
him
to practice what he preaches and lead by example?
No, it wouldn't. However, it also doesn't preclude him from helping the
environment.
I don't care about that. I never claimed anything directly precluded him
from helping the environment. But leading by example would help the cause
greatly. Being a hypocrit can't do anything but hinder the cause.
He is unable to lower CAFE standards and reduce
greenhouse gas emissions because...what...he has a boat?
Do practice being obtuse? The guy is a total hypocrite!
So? I've never defended Kerry's hypocrisy.
So what?
I'm just trying to figure
out how that hypocrisy makes him unable to do what is needed in the
grander scheme of things.
See previous explanation.
And I get sick of
your kind of rationalizing. You know damn well that if he were a
conservative, he'd get attacked for being a hypocrit.
Of course. And I am attacking him for his hypocrisy. Just not in this
thread.
This sort of stuff is
why I find myself increasingly agreeing with whoever it was that said "I
hate conservatives, but I really hate liberals."
I think there's too much "hate" in the world. I hate neither
conservatives or liberals. In fact, I love liberals and just find
conservatives misguided.
I am a liberal and want Kerry to practice what he preaches, but I'm
still not getting what makes that stop him from helping out.
Again, see previous explanation.
The issue of personal
responsibility towards the environment is extremely personal ofr me, and
was
one of the main reasons I didn't vote for Kerry - I would have voted for
Edwards/Kerry.
So, it was better to not vote for Kerry for your own personal
convictions and allow Bush to win by default?
There were several things that kept me from voting for him. And I almost
wrote in Tony Blair or Pat Paulson. And my vote really was meaningless,
since I live in Illinois.
It's a long story, but a few years ago I got stuck having to
spend a huge amount of money fixing the pollution control stuff on my
very
old car. This kept me from being able to buy a newer car, and of course,
since then I've had a lot of expensive repairs. It's a very serious
problem
for me because of my arthritis. I want to file assault and battery
charges
against my car every time I go through painful contortions getting in and
out. And with manual everything, it's often very painful to drive. I
desperately need a much larger vehicle, like an evil van or SUV, and have
thought about writing Kerry to see if he would be willing to give me one
of
his large fleet of SUVs until I can get one of my own (just one SUV, not
a
large fleet).
I have the same attitude towards John Edwards and his Super Ultra Hyper
Massive Mega Monster McMansion. Damn rich folks.
BTW, he doesn't just have "a boat", it's a $500,000 monster yacht.
I agree with you 100%, except for the fact that, you're still not
explaining to me how all of this still stops him from being a good
friend to the environment?
You know the drill.
Please tell me how this is because I'm just not getting it.
Leading by example...not giving the power to Limbaugh and his ilk.
What's ironic is that Bush will never push for anything worthwhile, but he
actually lives in a house designed for energy efficiency and use of solar
power.
This isn't a liberal or a conservative issue. If a super-hard
right-wing Religious Conservative did exactly the same as Kerry, but
still helped the environment, I'd be saying the same thing; trying to
figure out why hypocrisy precludes action.
- Rick, thinking of voting for Kucinich next presidential election. Or
maybe
even Nader.
Unless Kucinich is going to get the nomination (not going to happen, I
fear),
Shouldn't that be "I am 100% confident?" I suspect a major earth-destroying
asteroid strike before then is more likely.
a vote for either is a vote for the worser of two evils.
Currently, in this broken two-party system, if you vote for a third
party, that vote will most likely go to the opposing party; a two-party
automatically makes it a race of the lesser-of-two-evils.
Sorry to be a sourpuss, but that's the way it is. A vote for Nader is a
vote for the Republican. Your voting your convictions will only help
your political enemy; and we cannot afford that. Not right now.
I agree totally. I'm sort of being flip about Nader. For the foreseeable
future, I'll be a Yellow Dog Democrat. I personally prefer Obama, but I
think Edwards is more viable. But if it should happen, I'll be happy to vote
for Hillary. Anybody who is not Republican.
- Rick
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: John Kerry Rises Again |
23 Apr 2007 12:05:04 AM |
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"Rick" <pl1_alpha_g...@juNOSPAM.com> wrote:
I don't care about that. I never claimed anything directly
precluded him from helping the environment. But leading
by example would help the cause greatly.
Only is this "Cause" you speak of is asking ordinary people
to voluntarily act on what little information they have to go
on.
But that isn't the "Cause." The "Cause" is a national energy
policy that frees us from our dependence on foreign fossil
fuels, improves our environment and allows economic growth,
Being a hypocrit can't do anything but hinder the cause.
You don't know what that word means. I'll try to explain it
to you by way of example, though the effort will no doubt
be fruitless....
IF someone said, "Buy small fuel efficient cars, live in small
housing, stop using oil and electricity," while they themselves
rode in big cars, owned large homes and used oil & electricity,
they would be a hypocrite.
Kerry never said any of the above. He and his wife NEVER,
in the talk I heard, suggest that ANYBODY buy a hybrid.
What I did hear was some talk concerning how there aren't
enough hybrids to satisfy consumer demand (a fact I was
already aware of). What I did hear was talk about their own
consumption. What I did hear was some pretty realistic
talk about factors to consider, expenses and choices we
will have to make AS A PEOPLE.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: John Kerry Rises Again |
29 Apr 2007 02:24:51 AM |
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On 22 Apr 2007 22:05:04 -0700, JTEM <jtem01@gmail.com> wrote:
"Rick" <pl1_alpha_g...@juNOSPAM.com> wrote:
I don't care about that. I never claimed anything directly
precluded him from helping the environment. But leading
by example would help the cause greatly.
Only is this "Cause" you speak of is asking ordinary people
to voluntarily act on what little information they have to go
on.
But that isn't the "Cause." The "Cause" is a national energy
policy that frees us from our dependence on foreign fossil
fuels, improves our environment and allows economic growth,
Being a hypocrit can't do anything but hinder the cause.
You don't know what that word means. I'll try to explain it
to you by way of example, though the effort will no doubt
be fruitless....
IF someone said, "Buy small fuel efficient cars, live in small
housing, stop using oil and electricity," while they themselves
rode in big cars, owned large homes and used oil & electricity,
they would be a hypocrite.
Ok, so he's not a hypocrite by your convenient definition of the term.
He's just more than willing to ride around in really big, gas guzzling
automobiles and fly around in enviornment destroying jets to preach
gloom and doom regarding the enviornment as well as ride in those cars
and fly about in those jets going on vacation or to fund raisers and
then go home to one of his really, really big houses that use more
energy in a week than a large number of people would use in a year.
You're a funny guy JTEM.
And your gods can do no wrong.
Can I get an amen?
atheist@home#1554
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: John Kerry Rises Again |
29 Apr 2007 12:49:44 PM |
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wrote:
Ok, so he's not a hypocrite by your convenient definition
of the term.
I'm sorry, you snivelling little twit. He's not a hypocrite by
any sense of the word. Not as far as the English language
goes.
We need some new legislation, a new national policy, and
he's working to get one.
Now, isn't there a next generation of sociopaths you could
be setting a bad example for? Go have your fun...
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| User: "DanielSan" |
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| Title: Re: John Kerry Rises Again |
22 Apr 2007 04:52:39 PM |
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Rick wrote:
DanielSan wrote in message ...
Rick wrote:
DanielSan wrote in message ...
Rick wrote:
JTEM wrote in message
<1177200339.067459.317460@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>...
Saw John Kerry today, together with his lovely wife,
during a talk/signing session for their new book on
the environment.
Ok, I thought you were going to say he replaced Bob Dole as the Viagra
spokesman.
Speaking of the environment, I hope he converts his fleet of SUVs to
biodiesel or junks them for hybrids. I also hope he quits using his
wife's
monster gas guzzling boat to take him out into the ocean for
windsurfing.
Yes, because it's impossible for Kerry to help the environment while he
has a fleet of SUVs.
That is not a rational response to what I said. Would it be so awful for
him
to practice what he preaches and lead by example?
No, it wouldn't. However, it also doesn't preclude him from helping the
environment.
I don't care about that. I never claimed anything directly precluded him
from helping the environment. But leading by example would help the cause
greatly. Being a hypocrit can't do anything but hinder the cause.
I seriously doubt that.
Let's say that Kerry dumps X amount of pounds of carbon into the
environment every day, traveling to conferences that helps to reduce the
amount of carbon emissions to X^200 per day.
Is that "hindering the cause"?
He is unable to lower CAFE standards and reduce
greenhouse gas emissions because...what...he has a boat?
Do practice being obtuse? The guy is a total hypocrite!
So? I've never defended Kerry's hypocrisy.
So what?
I'm just trying to figure
out how that hypocrisy makes him unable to do what is needed in the
grander scheme of things.
See previous explanation.
So, you'd rather focus on what Kerry drives instead of what Kerry does?
<snip>
So, it was better to not vote for Kerry for your own personal
convictions and allow Bush to win by default?
There were several things that kept me from voting for him. And I almost
wrote in Tony Blair or Pat Paulson. And my vote really was meaningless,
since I live in Illinois.
Hence the problem with electoral college, but I won't get into that in
this post. Any vote that wasn't "Kerry" was automatically a vote for
Bush...because of the broken two-party system.
It's a long story, but a few years ago I got stuck having to
spend a huge amount of money fixing the pollution control stuff on my
very
old car. This kept me from being able to buy a newer car, and of course,
since then I've had a lot of expensive repairs. It's a very serious
problem
for me because of my arthritis. I want to file assault and battery
charges
against my car every time I go through painful contortions getting in and
out. And with manual everything, it's often very painful to drive. I
desperately need a much larger vehicle, like an evil van or SUV, and have
thought about writing Kerry to see if he would be willing to give me one
of
his large fleet of SUVs until I can get one of my own (just one SUV, not
a
large fleet).
I have the same attitude towards John Edwards and his Super Ultra Hyper
Massive Mega Monster McMansion. Damn rich folks.
BTW, he doesn't just have "a boat", it's a $500,000 monster yacht.
I agree with you 100%, except for the fact that, you're still not
explaining to me how all of this still stops him from being a good
friend to the environment?
You know the drill.
I do. You care more about Kerry's hypocrisy than his actions.
Please tell me how this is because I'm just not getting it.
Leading by example...not giving the power to Limbaugh and his ilk.
Limbaugh and his ilk will attack Kerry regardless. They'll make things
up if they have to, like faking his way into 3 Purple Hearts.
What's ironic is that Bush will never push for anything worthwhile, but he
actually lives in a house designed for energy efficiency and use of solar
power.
Actually, Reagan took the solar panels off the White House roof.
But, Bush is also a cheap *****. He doesn't care about the
environment. It saves him money.
This isn't a liberal or a conservative issue. If a super-hard
right-wing Religious Conservative did exactly the same as Kerry, but
still helped the environment, I'd be saying the same thing; trying to
figure out why hypocrisy precludes action.
- Rick, thinking of voting for Kucinich next presidential election. Or
maybe
even Nader.
Unless Kucinich is going to get the nomination (not going to happen, I
fear),
Shouldn't that be "I am 100% confident?" I suspect a major earth-destroying
asteroid strike before then is more likely.
Sure. :-)
a vote for either is a vote for the worser of two evils.
Currently, in this broken two-party system, if you vote for a third
party, that vote will most likely go to the opposing party; a two-party
automatically makes it a race of the lesser-of-two-evils.
Sorry to be a sourpuss, but that's the way it is. A vote for Nader is a
vote for the Republican. Your voting your convictions will only help
your political enemy; and we cannot afford that. Not right now.
I agree totally. I'm sort of being flip about Nader. For the foreseeable
future, I'll be a Yellow Dog Democrat. I personally prefer Obama, but I
think Edwards is more viable. But if it should happen, I'll be happy to vote
for Hillary. Anybody who is not Republican.
Good. *hugs*
--
******************************************************
* DanielSan -- alt.atheism #2226 *
*----------------------------------------------------*
* "In every country and every age, the priest had *
* been hostile to Liberty." --Thomas Jefferson *
******************************************************
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: John Kerry Rises Again |
22 Apr 2007 04:18:20 AM |
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On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 01:53:26 -0800, DanielSan
<daniel-san@myrealbox.com> wrote:
Rick wrote:
JTEM wrote in message
<1177200339.067459.317460@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>...
Saw John Kerry today, together with his lovely wife,
during a talk/signing session for their new book on
the environment.
Ok, I thought you were going to say he replaced Bob Dole as the Viagra
spokesman.
Speaking of the environment, I hope he converts his fleet of SUVs to
biodiesel or junks them for hybrids. I also hope he quits using his wife's
monster gas guzzling boat to take him out into the ocean for windsurfing.
Yes, because it's impossible for Kerry to help the environment while he
has a fleet of SUVs. He is unable to lower CAFE standards and reduce
greenhouse gas emissions because...what...he has a boat?
Bullfuckingshit!
The ***** also owns a number of very large homes that use a lot of
energy to run even when the lying ***** hypocritical wimp isn't there.
He also surfs about all over the place in a private jet.
Sweet Jusus.
Get a fucking life.
Gawdamn cool aid drinkers!
They're every goddamned where!
Sheesh!
athest@home#1554
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: John Kerry Rises Again |
22 Apr 2007 01:10:57 PM |
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wrote:
Bullfuckingshit!
The ***** also owns a number of very large homes
that use a lot of energy to run even when the lying
***** hypocritical wimp isn't there.
The same is true for Bush & Cheney, yet they've done
their best to increase emmissions.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: John Kerry Rises Again |
24 Apr 2007 07:27:16 AM |
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On 22 Apr 2007 11:10:57 -0700, JTEM <jtem01@gmail.com> wrote:
athe...@home.com wrote:
Bullfuckingshit!
The ***** also owns a number of very large homes
that use a lot of energy to run even when the lying
***** hypocritical wimp isn't there.
The same is true for Bush & Cheney, yet they've done
their best to increase emmissions.
In a lot of ways yes...but
http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/house.asp
Besides, we really aren't in trouble anyway.
atheist@home#1554
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: John Kerry Rises Again |
24 Apr 2007 01:59:27 PM |
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wrote:
In a lot of ways yes...but
http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/house.asp
This was debunked as soon as it was invented.
Amongst it's many problems is the fact that it
measures energy usage by way of monthly costs,
but Al Gore artificially raises his own costs by
Also interesting: Bush's fantasy "ranch" (by definition,
a real ranch would have cattle) is associated with his
Presidential dreams. He bought it in 1999, a year he
had already raised millions $$$ for a Presidential run,
and the house was built AFTER THAT, incorporating
the latst materials & understanding (such as passive
solar). Bush's purchase of the set...err..."Ranch" was
a page ripped directly from the Ronald Reagan book
of looking-the-part.
The house NEVER operated as the Bush family home.
Presidents are only allowed to maintain a SINGLE
house, due to the large expense and difficulties
associated with security & communinications.
You're literally comparing the home & office of Al
Gore and his wife to the "cottage" of George Bush,
and you're ignoring the needs & expenses of all of
Bush's staff & security but not Al Gore's. Finally,
you're not comparing actual energy usage, but only
the energy costs (pretending that twice the cost
has to amount to twice the energy use).
Idiot.
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