Joshua's Altar Discovered: Archaeology Confirms The Bible Once Again



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Sound of Trumpet"
Date: 06 Feb 2007 02:11:58 PM
Object: Joshua's Altar Discovered: Archaeology Confirms The Bible Once Again
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1758982/posts
Joshua=B4s Altar Leads to Deepening National Consciousness
Israel National News ^ | Dec 27, '06 / 6 Tevet 5767 | Hillel Fendel
Posted on 12/27/2006 8:11:51 AM PST by APRPEH
A reminder of the historic significance of the Jewish People's first
day in the Holy Land was provided by a trip for Russian-speaking
Israelis to Joshua's Altar on Mt. Ebal outside Shechem.
The story began just before this past Chanukah, when two busloads of
Russian-speaking Israelis - new immigrants, veteran immigrants, and
some tourists - made their first visit to the site known as Joshua's
Altar near Shechem (Nablus).
Security concerns notwithstanding, the visitors - many of whom had
never been to the area - came away greatly inspired, and some were
even moved to tears. Secular Jews found themselves reciting special
blessings and prayers appropriate to the novelty of the experience.
What was so special? "To see the actual altar that Joshua built, by
Divine command, on the day the Jewish People entered the Land of
Israel, is simply overwhelming," one participant tried to explain.
The trip was organized by the Maof organization - helping Russian-
speakers get to know the Land of Israel - and ex-MK Uzi Landau's
Machatz (Zionist Camp), whose Eretz Nehderet (Beautiful Land) program
does the same for people all over the country. The two buses were
targeted by a small bomb hurled by Palestinian terrorists in the
region, but no damage was caused.
Prof. Adam Zertal, an archaeologist from Tel Aviv University, was the
man who discovered and excavated the area and determined that it is
the remnants of Joshua's Altar. He appeared recently on
IsraelNationalRadio,
speaking with hosts Yishai and Malkah Fleisher.
"How do you know that this was in fact Joshua's altar?" Yishai asked.
"Perhaps it was built by other peoples over the years, for instance."
Prof. Zertal, author of " A Nation is Born: The Mt. Eval Altar and the
Beginnings of the Nation of Israel," appeared not to know where to
start, given the amount of evidence he can provide. He began with the
discovery itself:
"We discovered this place, all covered with stones, in April 1980. At
that time I never dreamt that we were dealing with the altar, because
I was taught in Tel Aviv University - the center of anti-Biblical
tendencies, where I learned that Biblical theories are untrue, and
that Biblical accounts were written later, and the like. I didn't even
know of the story of the Joshua's altar. But we surveyed every meter
of the site, and in the course of nine years of excavation, we
discovered a very old structure with no parallels to anything we had
seen before. It was 9 by 7 meters, and 4 meters high, with two stone
ramps, and a kind of veranda, known as the sovev, around."
The Torah itself, in Deut. 27, 4-8, recounts the command to build the
altar on Mt. Ebal (Eval) when the Jewish People would cross the Jordan
River into the Holy Land. The command stipulates that the stones
should not be hewn by iron, and that sacrifices should be brought
there.
Joshua 8, 30 states that Joshua fulfilled the command and, in fact,
built the altar on Mt. Ebal. This occurred, according to traditional
chronology, in the year 2488 to the creation of the world, or 3,252
years before Zertal began his excavation of the site.
A very critical piece of evidence cited by Zertal in support of his
identification of the structure as Joshua's Altar appears to be the
animal bones found there:
"There were more than 1,000 burnt animal bones - exactly of the type
that were used for sacrifices. It was clear that this was not the
remnants of some village, but rather a cultic site. But the critical
turning point [in our excavation] came when a religious member of our
team showed us the Mishna describing the altar of the 2nd Temple
period - 1,200 years later than our discovery. The description was
very similar to what we had found - meaning that the Mishna was
clearly and definitely a continuation and prototype of the one on Mt.
Ebal. They both have ramps, just as the Torah stipulates, for the High
Priest to ascend to the altar without going up steps, and the sizes
matched, and more... The architecture itself was the evidence."
"We found 1,000 bones in the site, and another 2,000 around it -
representing something like 700 animals," Prof. Zertal said. "We sent
them for analysis to the zoology department of the Hebrew University
in Jerusalem, and all the males were young males around one year old -
as the Torah commands - and were of the four animals that were brought
as sacrifices: goats, sheep, cattle, and fallow deer. In addition,
most of the bones had been burnt in open-flame fires of low
temperature."
Explaining why the area around the altar is so barren, Prof. Zertal
said, "Both in Deut. 27 and in Joshua 8, the implication is that the
altar will serve for a one-time ceremony, as opposed to becoming a
permanent holy area such as the Temple in Jerusalem... Afterwards, it
was covered up with stones in order that it not be desecrated, and the
people moved southward, to Shilo, and then further south, to
Jerusalem, where the final eternal Temple was built."
The Talmud (Sotah 45b), in fact, agrees that the altar was quite
temporary, and that Joshua took it apart and moved the stones to the
Gilgal area. The Talmud states that this happened on the same day the
altar was built, and the Medrash adds that another altar was built on
Mt. Eval some 40 years later.
Asked if he had found the 12 stones on which the Book of Deuteronomy
was written there (Joshua 8, 32), Prof. Zertal said that this would be
a hard task. He explained that the exact location of the stones is not
clear from the Biblical account, and that in any event, "The words of
Torah were written on plaster that covered the stones, because iron
tools were not allowed to be used on the stones... But we did find 60
pieces of plaster near the altar; this is unusual, as usually they did
not plaster the structures. The pieces are very fragile, but we are
trying to see if we can find something."
The Mandrake plant, known in the Torah as Dudaim, is found close to
the altar.
As with many archaeological theories and findings, Zertal's has its
detractors as well. Zertal is not fazed, however. In response to
claims that the structure was a residence, he notes that "there was
neither a floor nor an entrance" and it was "obviously not regularly
lived in." Neither could it have been a watchtower, he asserts,
because all transportation routes avoided the area, nor were there any
Iron Age settlements nearby, "such that there was nothing to guard."
The Special First Day
Another local scholar, Lt.-Col. (res.) Nechemiah Perelman of Kedumim,
has a different approach. He says that whether or not the stone
structure on Mt. Eval is actually Joshua's Altar, it is more important
"for us to remember and instill in our national consciousness all of
the events that happened on that day. That was Israel's first day in
the Holy Land!"
Specifically, Perelman said, "The people of Israel miraculously
crossed the Jordan River; they took 12 stones out of the river, and
then replaced them with 12 other ones - and the significance of this
must be studied; they gave up their share in a plot of land that Jacob
had purchased in order to provide a burial spot for Joseph; Joseph was
buried; the blessings-and-curses ceremony at Mt. Gerizim and Mt. Eval
took place; and the altar was built. Each of these special events must
be studied carefully - especially by us, the generation that has
returned to the Land of Israel - in order that we understand their
full significance."
Midreshet Shomron, an institution in the nearby community of Shavei
Shomron, also organizes periodic trips to the area. However, the trips
are often thwarted by the terrorists in the area. One ill-fated tour,
in October 2000, ended with the death of Rabbi Binyamin Herling, one
of several hikers who left the main route and were shot at by
Palestinian terrorists in Shechem. The army was widely accused of not
taking offensive action to save the hikers when the terrorists pinned
them down with long-range but accurate fire.
Another trip to the same area this past Chanukah was canceled by the
army with just two days' notice, because of intelligence warnings of
another planned terror attack. However, the people of Midreshet
Shomron, Maof and Machatz all agree that they will continue to
organize the trips and cement the bonds between the people of Israel
and their Land.
Published: 13:46 December 27, 2006
Last Update: 14:06 December 28, 2006
.

User: "jls"

Title: Re: Joshua's Altar Discovered: Archaeology Confirms The Bible Once Again 06 Feb 2007 02:48:11 PM
Ah, my dear zealous freeper. You got an affidavit from Joshua
himself that THAT is his altar?
Sorry, but the affidavit is a forgery. Both the signatures of Joshua
and the notary public are bogus.
.

User: "Doc Smartass"

Title: Re: Joshua's Altar Discovered: Archaeology Confirms The Bible Once Again 06 Feb 2007 06:27:09 PM
"Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of_trumpet@warpmail.net> wrote in
news:1170792718.469572.41000@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1758982/posts

Ah, the well-known scientific and archaeological organization known as the
Freepers.

Joshua´s Altar Leads to Deepening National Consciousness

Is it near the Ark? They found that last year, too. Or in 2004. They're
always finding it.
--
Doc Smartass, BAAWA Knight of Heckling
aa # 1939
AUTHORITARIANS ARE PERVERTS. Why?
--They consider themselves shepherds.
--They consider the rest of us sheep.
--Shepherds ***** sheep.
--Therefore AUTHORITARIANS ARE PERVERTS.
.
User: "Matt Giwer"

Title: Re: Joshua's Altar Discovered: Archaeology Confirms The Bible OnceAgain 07 Feb 2007 02:00:37 PM
Doc Smartass wrote:

"Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of_trumpet@warpmail.net> wrote in=20
news:1170792718.469572.41000@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1758982/posts

Ah, the well-known scientific and archaeological organization known as =

the=20

Freepers.

Joshua=B4s Altar Leads to Deepening National Consciousness

Is it near the Ark? They found that last year, too. Or in 2004. They're=

=20

always finding it.

Go down three arks and turn left. Second altar on the right. You can't m=
iss it.
--=20
By Bush's definition of civil war the US has never had a civil war.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3733
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
Iraqi democracy http://www.giwersworld.org/911/armless.phtml a3
.
User: "johac"

Title: Re: Joshua's Altar Discovered: Archaeology Confirms The Bible Once Again 09 Feb 2007 01:08:30 AM
In article <45ca2fe9$0$24755$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Matt Giwer <jull43@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote:

Doc Smartass wrote:

"Sound of Trumpet" <sound of trumpet@warpmail.net> wrote in
news:1170792718.469572.41000@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1758982/posts


Ah, the well-known scientific and archaeological organization known as the
Freepers.


Joshua´s Altar Leads to Deepening National Consciousness


Is it near the Ark? They found that last year, too. Or in 2004. They're
always finding it.


Go down three arks and turn left. Second altar on the right. You can't miss
it.

It's across the aisle from the "True Crosses".
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
User: "Dubh Ghall"

Title: Re: Joshua's Altar Discovered: Archaeology Confirms The Bible Once Again 09 Feb 2007 11:26:10 AM
On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 23:08:30 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:

In article <45ca2fe9$0$24755$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Matt Giwer <jull43@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote:

Doc Smartass wrote:

"Sound of Trumpet" <sound of trumpet@warpmail.net> wrote in
news:1170792718.469572.41000@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1758982/posts


Ah, the well-known scientific and archaeological organization known as the
Freepers.


Joshua´s Altar Leads to Deepening National Consciousness


Is it near the Ark? They found that last year, too. Or in 2004. They're
always finding it.


Go down three arks and turn left. Second altar on the right. You can't miss
it.


It's across the aisle from the "True Crosses".

If the Arc of the Covenant, is up one level, and to the right, I think
you will find that you are working from the map of the EAC warehouse.
.
User: "johac"

Title: Re: Joshua's Altar Discovered: Archaeology Confirms The Bible Once Again 10 Feb 2007 01:07:37 AM
In article <5ibps2h0cg0tvpv9bcocfjb5p9usa5ikn4@4ax.com>,
Dubh Ghall <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote:

On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 23:08:30 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:

In article <45ca2fe9$0$24755$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Matt Giwer <jull43@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote:

Doc Smartass wrote:

"Sound of Trumpet" <sound of trumpet@warpmail.net> wrote in
news:1170792718.469572.41000@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1758982/posts


Ah, the well-known scientific and archaeological organization known as
the
Freepers.


Joshua´s Altar Leads to Deepening National Consciousness


Is it near the Ark? They found that last year, too. Or in 2004. They're
always finding it.


Go down three arks and turn left. Second altar on the right. You can't
miss
it.


It's across the aisle from the "True Crosses".




If the Arc of the Covenant, is up one level, and to the right, I think
you will find that you are working from the map of the EAC warehouse.

That was great camouflage work in "Indiana Jones", how we disguised it
as a US Government ware house.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
User: "Dubh Ghall"

Title: Re: Joshua's Altar Discovered: Archaeology Confirms The Bible Once Again 10 Feb 2007 01:19:01 PM
On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 23:07:37 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:

In article <5ibps2h0cg0tvpv9bcocfjb5p9usa5ikn4@4ax.com>,
Dubh Ghall <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote:

On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 23:08:30 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:

In article <45ca2fe9$0$24755$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Matt Giwer <jull43@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote:

Doc Smartass wrote:

"Sound of Trumpet" <sound of trumpet@warpmail.net> wrote in
news:1170792718.469572.41000@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1758982/posts


Ah, the well-known scientific and archaeological organization known as
the
Freepers.


Joshua´s Altar Leads to Deepening National Consciousness


Is it near the Ark? They found that last year, too. Or in 2004. They're
always finding it.


Go down three arks and turn left. Second altar on the right. You can't
miss
it.


It's across the aisle from the "True Crosses".




If the Arc of the Covenant, is up one level, and to the right, I think
you will find that you are working from the map of the EAC warehouse.


That was great camouflage work in "Indiana Jones", how we disguised it
as a US Government ware house.

....And we could have done an even better job, if R&D, hadn't spent
their total budget, researching the local bar, pizza parlor, and porn
store.
.
User: "johac"

Title: Re: Joshua's Altar Discovered: Archaeology Confirms The Bible Once Again 11 Feb 2007 01:43:19 AM
In article <hg6ss25uvoo4b7dohsc3io7akah0aifgfs@4ax.com>,
Dubh Ghall <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote:

On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 23:07:37 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:

In article <5ibps2h0cg0tvpv9bcocfjb5p9usa5ikn4@4ax.com>,
Dubh Ghall <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote:

On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 23:08:30 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:

In article <45ca2fe9$0$24755$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Matt Giwer <jull43@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote:

Doc Smartass wrote:

"Sound of Trumpet" <sound of trumpet@warpmail.net> wrote in
news:1170792718.469572.41000@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1758982/posts


Ah, the well-known scientific and archaeological organization known
as
the
Freepers.


Joshua´s Altar Leads to Deepening National Consciousness


Is it near the Ark? They found that last year, too. Or in 2004.
They're
always finding it.


Go down three arks and turn left. Second altar on the right. You can't
miss
it.


It's across the aisle from the "True Crosses".




If the Arc of the Covenant, is up one level, and to the right, I think
you will find that you are working from the map of the EAC warehouse.


That was great camouflage work in "Indiana Jones", how we disguised it
as a US Government ware house.



...And we could have done an even better job, if R&D, hadn't spent
their total budget, researching the local bar, pizza parlor, and porn
store.

Cost overuns again. Just wait until I tell the non-existent (of course)
EAC oversight committee.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
User: "Dubh Ghall"

Title: Re: Joshua's Altar Discovered: Archaeology Confirms The Bible Once Again 11 Feb 2007 08:53:22 AM
On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 23:43:19 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:

In article <hg6ss25uvoo4b7dohsc3io7akah0aifgfs@4ax.com>,
Dubh Ghall <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote:

On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 23:07:37 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:

In article <5ibps2h0cg0tvpv9bcocfjb5p9usa5ikn4@4ax.com>,
Dubh Ghall <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote:

On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 23:08:30 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:

In article <45ca2fe9$0$24755$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Matt Giwer <jull43@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote:

Doc Smartass wrote:

"Sound of Trumpet" <sound of trumpet@warpmail.net> wrote in
news:1170792718.469572.41000@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1758982/posts


Ah, the well-known scientific and archaeological organization known
as
the
Freepers.


Joshua´s Altar Leads to Deepening National Consciousness


Is it near the Ark? They found that last year, too. Or in 2004.
They're
always finding it.


Go down three arks and turn left. Second altar on the right. You can't
miss
it.


It's across the aisle from the "True Crosses".




If the Arc of the Covenant, is up one level, and to the right, I think
you will find that you are working from the map of the EAC warehouse.


That was great camouflage work in "Indiana Jones", how we disguised it
as a US Government ware house.



...And we could have done an even better job, if R&D, hadn't spent
their total budget, researching the local bar, pizza parlor, and porn
store.


Cost overuns again. Just wait until I tell the non-existent (of course)
EAC oversight committee.

Same everywhere, I suppose; Too much month, not enough money.
.
User: "johac"

Title: Re: Joshua's Altar Discovered: Archaeology Confirms The Bible Once Again 12 Feb 2007 04:57:36 PM
In article <4fbus2t1durs265oo9s5kujdja2ef8b2ov@4ax.com>,
Dubh Ghall <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote:

On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 23:43:19 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:

In article <hg6ss25uvoo4b7dohsc3io7akah0aifgfs@4ax.com>,
Dubh Ghall <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote:

On Fri, 09 Feb 2007 23:07:37 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:

In article <5ibps2h0cg0tvpv9bcocfjb5p9usa5ikn4@4ax.com>,
Dubh Ghall <puck@pooks.hill.fey> wrote:

On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 23:08:30 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:

In article <45ca2fe9$0$24755$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>,
Matt Giwer <jull43@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote:

Doc Smartass wrote:

"Sound of Trumpet" <sound of trumpet@warpmail.net> wrote in
news:1170792718.469572.41000@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1758982/posts


Ah, the well-known scientific and archaeological organization
known
as
the
Freepers.


Joshua´s Altar Leads to Deepening National Consciousness


Is it near the Ark? They found that last year, too. Or in 2004.
They're
always finding it.


Go down three arks and turn left. Second altar on the right. You
can't
miss
it.


It's across the aisle from the "True Crosses".




If the Arc of the Covenant, is up one level, and to the right, I think
you will find that you are working from the map of the EAC warehouse.


That was great camouflage work in "Indiana Jones", how we disguised it
as a US Government ware house.



...And we could have done an even better job, if R&D, hadn't spent
their total budget, researching the local bar, pizza parlor, and porn
store.


Cost overuns again. Just wait until I tell the non-existent (of course)
EAC oversight committee.


Same everywhere, I suppose; Too much month, not enough money.

Funny how budgets work out like that.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.






User: "JTEM"

Title: Re: Joshua's Altar Discovered: Archaeology Confirms The Bible Once Again 09 Feb 2007 01:59:10 AM
johac <jhachm...@sbcglobal.com> wrote:

Matt Giwer <jul...@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote:

Go down three arks and turn left. Second altar on the right.
You can't miss
it.


It's across the aisle from the "True Crosses".

Giwer is a 100% authentic, holocaust-denying Nazi.
If you don't believe me, check out his own links in his sig.
But, whatever you do, don't expect him to back up a single
word that he claims. he's real good at jumping up & down,
holding his breath until he turns blue and then screaming
that he came up with mountains of source documents. It's
just that actually come up with source documents is a bit
difficult for him.
.
User: "johac"

Title: Re: Joshua's Altar Discovered: Archaeology Confirms The Bible Once Again 10 Feb 2007 01:09:31 AM
In article <1171007950.154496.48040@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com>,
"JTEM" <jtem01@gmail.com> wrote:

johac <jhachm...@sbcglobal.com> wrote:

Matt Giwer <jul...@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote:


Go down three arks and turn left. Second altar on the right.
You can't miss
it.


It's across the aisle from the "True Crosses".


Giwer is a 100% authentic, holocaust-denying Nazi.

If you don't believe me, check out his own links in his sig.

But, whatever you do, don't expect him to back up a single
word that he claims. he's real good at jumping up & down,
holding his breath until he turns blue and then screaming
that he came up with mountains of source documents. It's
just that actually come up with source documents is a bit
difficult for him.

I know. Sadly typical fundy trollism syndrome.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.




User: "Mark K. Bilbo"

Title: Re: Joshua's Altar Discovered: Archaeology Confirms The Bible OnceAgain 08 Feb 2007 08:50:47 AM
On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 00:27:09 +0000, Doc Smartass wrote:

"Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of_trumpet@warpmail.net> wrote in
news:1170792718.469572.41000@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1758982/posts


Ah, the well-known scientific and archaeological organization known as the
Freepers.

JoshuaĊ½s Altar Leads to Deepening National Consciousness


Is it near the Ark? They found that last year, too. Or in 2004. They're
always finding it.

I found it in my backyard!
(Or was that the septic tank?)
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
[God explaining the doctrine of free will.]
"In order not to impair human liberty, I will be ignorant
of what I know, I will thicken upon my eyes the veils
I have pierced, and in my blind clear-sightedness I will
let myself be surprised by what I have foreseen."
- Anatole France
.
User: "Doc Smartass"

Title: Re: Joshua's Altar Discovered: Archaeology Confirms The Bible Once Again 08 Feb 2007 05:10:11 PM
"Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote in
news:GKGdnSneaNBapVbYnZ2dnUVZ_h7inZ2d@giganews.com:

On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 00:27:09 +0000, Doc Smartass wrote:

"Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of_trumpet@warpmail.net> wrote in
news:1170792718.469572.41000@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1758982/posts


Ah, the well-known scientific and archaeological organization known
as the Freepers.

JoshuaĊ½s Altar Leads to Deepening National Consciousness


Is it near the Ark? They found that last year, too. Or in 2004.
They're always finding it.


I found it in my backyard!

(Or was that the septic tank?)

I saw it in Paris! Noah's Arc...de Triomphe.
--
Doc Smartass, BAAWA Knight of Heckling
aa # 1939
AUTHORITARIANS ARE PERVERTS. Why?
--They consider themselves shepherds.
--They consider the rest of us sheep.
--Shepherds ***** sheep.
--Therefore AUTHORITARIANS ARE PERVERTS.
.
User: "Mark K. Bilbo"

Title: Re: Joshua's Altar Discovered: Archaeology Confirms The Bible OnceAgain 09 Feb 2007 07:38:13 AM
On Thu, 08 Feb 2007 23:10:11 +0000, Doc Smartass wrote:

"Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote in
news:GKGdnSneaNBapVbYnZ2dnUVZ_h7inZ2d@giganews.com:

On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 00:27:09 +0000, Doc Smartass wrote:

"Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of_trumpet@warpmail.net> wrote in
news:1170792718.469572.41000@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1758982/posts


Ah, the well-known scientific and archaeological organization known
as the Freepers.

JoshuaĊ½s Altar Leads to Deepening National Consciousness


Is it near the Ark? They found that last year, too. Or in 2004.
They're always finding it.


I found it in my backyard!

(Or was that the septic tank?)


I saw it in Paris! Noah's Arc...de Triomphe.

That's just the wine talking...
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
"...otherwise, we're looking at the potential of this kind
of world:.... a world in which oil reserves are controlled
by radicals in order to extract blackmail from the West..."
- George Bush
Wait... oil reserves?
.


User: "Kurt Nicklas"

Title: Re: Joshua's Altar Discovered: Archaeology Confirms The Bible Once Again 08 Feb 2007 06:16:24 PM
On Feb 8, 9:50=C2=A0am, "Mark K. Bilbo" <g...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:

On Wed, 07 Feb 2007 00:27:09 +0000, Doc Smartass wrote:

"Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of_trum...@warpmail.net> wrote in
news:1170792718.469572.41000@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1758982/posts


Ah, the well-known scientific and archaeological organization known as =

the

Freepers.


Joshua=C5=BDs Altar Leads to Deepening National Consciousness


Is it near the Ark? They found that last year, too. Or in 2004. They're
always finding it.


I found it in my backyard!
Or was that the septic tank?)

Did it contain all your common sense?
God knows, you flushed that away some time ago,Blibo.
.

User: "George"

Title: Re: Joshua's Altar Discovered: Archaeology Confirms The Bible Once Again 11 Feb 2007 01:41:45 PM
On Feb 9, 3:50 am, "Mark K. Bilbo" <g...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:


Is it near the Ark? They found that last year, too. Or in 2004. They're
always finding it.


I found it in my backyard!

(Or was that the septic tank?)

Full of Giwer and SOT I'd presume ?
.
User: "Mark K. Bilbo"

Title: Re: Joshua's Altar Discovered: Archaeology Confirms The Bible OnceAgain 14 Feb 2007 07:32:52 AM
On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 11:41:45 -0800, George wrote:

On Feb 9, 3:50 am, "Mark K. Bilbo" <g...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:


Is it near the Ark? They found that last year, too. Or in 2004. They're
always finding it.


I found it in my backyard!

(Or was that the septic tank?)


Full of Giwer and SOT I'd presume ?

It is???
I gotta get that thing pumped!
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
- Seneca the Younger
.




User: "Randal"

Title: Re: Joshua's Altar Discovered: Archaeology Confirms The Bible Once Again 07 Feb 2007 03:37:21 AM
*****.
Sound of Trumpet wrote:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1758982/posts

Joshua´s Altar Leads to Deepening National Consciousness

Israel National News ^ | Dec 27, '06 / 6 Tevet 5767 | Hillel Fendel

Posted on 12/27/2006 8:11:51 AM PST by APRPEH

A reminder of the historic significance of the Jewish People's first
day in the Holy Land was provided by a trip for Russian-speaking
Israelis to Joshua's Altar on Mt. Ebal outside Shechem.

The story began just before this past Chanukah, when two busloads of
Russian-speaking Israelis - new immigrants, veteran immigrants, and
some tourists - made their first visit to the site known as Joshua's
Altar near Shechem (Nablus).

Security concerns notwithstanding, the visitors - many of whom had
never been to the area - came away greatly inspired, and some were
even moved to tears. Secular Jews found themselves reciting special
blessings and prayers appropriate to the novelty of the experience.

What was so special? "To see the actual altar that Joshua built, by
Divine command, on the day the Jewish People entered the Land of
Israel, is simply overwhelming," one participant tried to explain.

The trip was organized by the Maof organization - helping Russian-
speakers get to know the Land of Israel - and ex-MK Uzi Landau's
Machatz (Zionist Camp), whose Eretz Nehderet (Beautiful Land) program
does the same for people all over the country. The two buses were
targeted by a small bomb hurled by Palestinian terrorists in the
region, but no damage was caused.

Prof. Adam Zertal, an archaeologist from Tel Aviv University, was the
man who discovered and excavated the area and determined that it is
the remnants of Joshua's Altar. He appeared recently on
IsraelNationalRadio,
speaking with hosts Yishai and Malkah Fleisher.

"How do you know that this was in fact Joshua's altar?" Yishai asked.
"Perhaps it was built by other peoples over the years, for instance."

Prof. Zertal, author of " A Nation is Born: The Mt. Eval Altar and the
Beginnings of the Nation of Israel," appeared not to know where to
start, given the amount of evidence he can provide. He began with the
discovery itself:

"We discovered this place, all covered with stones, in April 1980. At
that time I never dreamt that we were dealing with the altar, because
I was taught in Tel Aviv University - the center of anti-Biblical
tendencies, where I learned that Biblical theories are untrue, and
that Biblical accounts were written later, and the like. I didn't even
know of the story of the Joshua's altar. But we surveyed every meter
of the site, and in the course of nine years of excavation, we
discovered a very old structure with no parallels to anything we had
seen before. It was 9 by 7 meters, and 4 meters high, with two stone
ramps, and a kind of veranda, known as the sovev, around."

The Torah itself, in Deut. 27, 4-8, recounts the command to build the
altar on Mt. Ebal (Eval) when the Jewish People would cross the Jordan
River into the Holy Land. The command stipulates that the stones
should not be hewn by iron, and that sacrifices should be brought
there.

Joshua 8, 30 states that Joshua fulfilled the command and, in fact,
built the altar on Mt. Ebal. This occurred, according to traditional
chronology, in the year 2488 to the creation of the world, or 3,252
years before Zertal began his excavation of the site.

A very critical piece of evidence cited by Zertal in support of his
identification of the structure as Joshua's Altar appears to be the
animal bones found there:

"There were more than 1,000 burnt animal bones - exactly of the type
that were used for sacrifices. It was clear that this was not the
remnants of some village, but rather a cultic site. But the critical
turning point [in our excavation] came when a religious member of our
team showed us the Mishna describing the altar of the 2nd Temple
period - 1,200 years later than our discovery. The description was
very similar to what we had found - meaning that the Mishna was
clearly and definitely a continuation and prototype of the one on Mt.
Ebal. They both have ramps, just as the Torah stipulates, for the High
Priest to ascend to the altar without going up steps, and the sizes
matched, and more... The architecture itself was the evidence."

"We found 1,000 bones in the site, and another 2,000 around it -
representing something like 700 animals," Prof. Zertal said. "We sent
them for analysis to the zoology department of the Hebrew University
in Jerusalem, and all the males were young males around one year old -
as the Torah commands - and were of the four animals that were brought
as sacrifices: goats, sheep, cattle, and fallow deer. In addition,
most of the bones had been burnt in open-flame fires of low
temperature."

Explaining why the area around the altar is so barren, Prof. Zertal
said, "Both in Deut. 27 and in Joshua 8, the implication is that the
altar will serve for a one-time ceremony, as opposed to becoming a
permanent holy area such as the Temple in Jerusalem... Afterwards, it
was covered up with stones in order that it not be desecrated, and the
people moved southward, to Shilo, and then further south, to
Jerusalem, where the final eternal Temple was built."

The Talmud (Sotah 45b), in fact, agrees that the altar was quite
temporary, and that Joshua took it apart and moved the stones to the
Gilgal area. The Talmud states that this happened on the same day the
altar was built, and the Medrash adds that another altar was built on
Mt. Eval some 40 years later.

Asked if he had found the 12 stones on which the Book of Deuteronomy
was written there (Joshua 8, 32), Prof. Zertal said that this would be
a hard task. He explained that the exact location of the stones is not
clear from the Biblical account, and that in any event, "The words of
Torah were written on plaster that covered the stones, because iron
tools were not allowed to be used on the stones... But we did find 60
pieces of plaster near the altar; this is unusual, as usually they did
not plaster the structures. The pieces are very fragile, but we are
trying to see if we can find something."

The Mandrake plant, known in the Torah as Dudaim, is found close to
the altar.

As with many archaeological theories and findings, Zertal's has its
detractors as well. Zertal is not fazed, however. In response to
claims that the structure was a residence, he notes that "there was
neither a floor nor an entrance" and it was "obviously not regularly
lived in." Neither could it have been a watchtower, he asserts,
because all transportation routes avoided the area, nor were there any
Iron Age settlements nearby, "such that there was nothing to guard."

The Special First Day

Another local scholar, Lt.-Col. (res.) Nechemiah Perelman of Kedumim,
has a different approach. He says that whether or not the stone
structure on Mt. Eval is actually Joshua's Altar, it is more important
"for us to remember and instill in our national consciousness all of
the events that happened on that day. That was Israel's first day in
the Holy Land!"

Specifically, Perelman said, "The people of Israel miraculously
crossed the Jordan River; they took 12 stones out of the river, and
then replaced them with 12 other ones - and the significance of this
must be studied; they gave up their share in a plot of land that Jacob
had purchased in order to provide a burial spot for Joseph; Joseph was
buried; the blessings-and-curses ceremony at Mt. Gerizim and Mt. Eval
took place; and the altar was built. Each of these special events must
be studied carefully - especially by us, the generation that has
returned to the Land of Israel - in order that we understand their
full significance."

Midreshet Shomron, an institution in the nearby community of Shavei
Shomron, also organizes periodic trips to the area. However, the trips
are often thwarted by the terrorists in the area. One ill-fated tour,
in October 2000, ended with the death of Rabbi Binyamin Herling, one
of several hikers who left the main route and were shot at by
Palestinian terrorists in Shechem. The army was widely accused of not
taking offensive action to save the hikers when the terrorists pinned
them down with long-range but accurate fire.

Another trip to the same area this past Chanukah was canceled by the
army with just two days' notice, because of intelligence warnings of
another planned terror attack. However, the people of Midreshet
Shomron, Maof and Machatz all agree that they will continue to
organize the trips and cement the bonds between the people of Israel
and their Land.

Published: 13:46 December 27, 2006
Last Update: 14:06 December 28, 2006

.

User: "Bible Believer"

Title: Re: Joshua's Altar Discovered: Archaeology Confirms The Bible Once Again 06 Feb 2007 07:28:57 PM
On 6 Feb 2007 12:11:58 -0800, "Sound of Trumpet"
<sound_of_trumpet@warpmail.net> claimed:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1758982/posts

Joshua´s Altar Leads to Deepening National Consciousness


Israel National News ^ | Dec 27, '06 / 6 Tevet 5767 | Hillel Fendel


Posted on 12/27/2006 8:11:51 AM PST by APRPEH



A reminder of the historic significance of the Jewish People's first
day in the Holy Land was provided by a trip for Russian-speaking
Israelis to Joshua's Altar on Mt. Ebal outside Shechem.

Well, it's nice to find the altar, but it doesn't prove
anything regarding the Jews' belief that they haven't
received all of their land yet, nor that they were to
do whatever they wanted about God and still get
to keep it and be "God's people".
--
Hope is for those who do not live in grace.
The Bible is the inerrant word of the living God!
If you don't believe the Bible, don't tell me that
you are a Christian. I won't believe you. To make
that claim, is to be a heretic who does not know God.
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Joshua's Altar Discovered: Archaeology Confirms The Bible Once Again 07 Feb 2007 06:38:49 AM

On 6 Feb 2007 12:11:58 -0800, "Sound of Trumpet"

Joshua=B4s Altar Leads to Deepening National Consciousness

On Feb 6, 5:28 pm, Bible Believer <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:

Well, it's nice to find the altar, but it doesn't prove
anything regarding the Jews' belief that they haven't
received all of their land yet, nor that they were to
do whatever they wanted about God and still get
to keep it and be "God's people".

Do tell where your "bible" states that Jews are permitted 'whatever
they wanted about God and still get to keep it and be "God's people"'.
The bible with which the rest of us are familiar clearly states the
opposite.

The Bible is the inerrant word of the living God!
If you don't believe the Bible, don't tell me that
you are a Christian. =20

What I don't believe is that you know what you're talking about.
Deborah
.
User: "Matt Giwer"

Title: Re: Joshua's Altar Discovered: Archaeology Confirms The Bible OnceAgain 07 Feb 2007 02:11:26 PM
wrote:

On 6 Feb 2007 12:11:58 -0800, "Sound of Trumpet"

Joshua=B4s Altar Leads to Deepening National Consciousness

=20
On Feb 6, 5:28 pm, Bible Believer <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:

Well, it's nice to find the altar, but it doesn't prove
anything regarding the Jews' belief that they haven't
received all of their land yet, nor that they were to
do whatever they wanted about God and still get
to keep it and be "God's people".

=20
Do tell where your "bible" states that Jews are permitted 'whatever
they wanted about God and still get to keep it and be "God's people"'.
The bible with which the rest of us are familiar clearly states the
opposite.

Read the Protocols of the Elders of Zionism by Theodor Herzl.
--=20
The funny thing is we cannot find any rational basis to separate a politi=
cal
speech by Bush on Iraq from a psychotic delusion.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3724=09
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
Mission Accomplished http://www.giwersworld.org/opinion/mission.phtml a=
12
.
User: ""

Title: Re: One of the Stupider Things Giwer Has Written 07 Feb 2007 03:07:50 PM

Do tell where your "bible" states that Jews are permitted 'whatever
they wanted about God and still get to keep it and be "God's people"'.
The bible with which the rest of us are familiar clearly states the
opposite.

On Feb 7, 12:11 pm, Matt Giwer <jul...@tampabay.REMover.rr.com> wrote:

Read the Protocols of the Elders of Zionism by Theodor Herzl.

lol
Deborah
.


User: "Bible Believer"

Title: Re: Joshua's Altar Discovered: Archaeology Confirms The Bible Once Again 07 Feb 2007 07:48:26 AM
On 7 Feb 2007 04:38:49 -0800, "dsharavi@gmail.com"
<dsharavi@gmail.com> claimed:

On Feb 6, 5:28 pm, Bible Believer <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:

Well, it's nice to find the altar, but it doesn't prove
anything regarding the Jews' belief that they haven't
received all of their land yet, nor that they were to
do whatever they wanted about God and still get
to keep it and be "God's people".


Do tell where your "bible" states that Jews are permitted
'whatever they wanted about God and still get to keep it
and be "God's people"'. The bible with which the rest of
us are familiar clearly states the opposite.

Did I say it was my belief? Whose belief did I say it was?

The Bible is the inerrant word of the living God!
If you don't believe the Bible, don't tell me that
you are a Christian.


What I don't believe is that you know what you're talking about.

See above.
--
Hope is for those who do not live in grace.
The Bible is the inerrant word of the living God!
If you don't believe the Bible, don't tell me that
you are a Christian. I won't believe you. To make
that claim, is to be a heretic who does not know God.
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Joshua's Altar Discovered: Archaeology Confirms The Bible Once Again 07 Feb 2007 03:12:17 PM

On Feb 6, 5:28 pm, Bible Believer <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:

Well, it's nice to find the altar, but it doesn't prove
anything regarding the Jews' belief that they haven't
received all of their land yet, nor that they were to
do whatever they wanted about God and still get
to keep it and be "God's people".

"dshar...@gmail.com" wrote

Do tell where your "bible" states that Jews are permitted
'whatever they wanted about God and still get to keep it
and be "God's people"'. The bible with which the rest of
us are familiar clearly states the opposite.

Bible Believer <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:

Did I say it was my belief?

Did I state you said it was your belief?

Whose belief did I say it was?

You stated it was the "Jews' belief" that "they haven't received all
of their land yet, nor that they were to do whatever they wanted about
God and still get to keep it and be "God's people"." And that's a load
of *****.

The Bible is the inerrant word of the living God!
If you don't believe the Bible, don't tell me that
you are a Christian.

What I don't believe is that you know what you're talking about.

See above.

Q.E.D.
Deborah
.
User: "Bible Believer"

Title: Re: Joshua's Altar Discovered: Archaeology Confirms The Bible Once Again 07 Feb 2007 05:35:01 PM
On 7 Feb 2007 13:12:17 -0800, "dsharavi@gmail.com"
<dsharavii@hotmail.com> claimed:

On Feb 6, 5:28 pm, Bible Believer <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:

Well, it's nice to find the altar, but it doesn't prove
anything regarding the Jews' belief that they haven't
received all of their land yet, nor that they were to
do whatever they wanted about God and still get
to keep it and be "God's people".


"dshar...@gmail.com" wrote

Do tell where your "bible" states that Jews are permitted
'whatever they wanted about God and still get to keep it
and be "God's people"'. The bible with which the rest of
us are familiar clearly states the opposite.


Bible Believer <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:

Did I say it was my belief?


Did I state you said it was your belief?

Yes, when you asked me where "my Bible" says it.
Act like an ***** with someone else and waste their
time. You obviously haven't the integrity to admit
when you're wrong.

Whose belief did I say it was?


You stated it was the "Jews' belief" that "they haven't received all
of their land yet, nor that they were to do whatever they wanted about
God and still get to keep it and be "God's people"." And that's a load
of *****.

You can cry and whine all you want, but it's true.
Goodbye, jack *****.
--
Hope is for those who do not live in grace.
The Bible is the inerrant word of the living God!
If you don't believe the Bible, don't tell me that
you are a Christian. I won't believe you. To make
that claim, is to be a heretic who does not know God.
.
User: ""

Title: "Bible Believer" : another coward freeps off [WAS Re: Joshua's Altar Discovered: Archaeology Confirms The Bible Once Again 08 Feb 2007 06:51:48 PM

On Feb 6, 5:28 pm, Bible Believer <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:

Well, it's nice to find the altar, but it doesn't prove
anything regarding the Jews' belief that they haven't
received all of their land yet, nor that they were to
do whatever they wanted about God and still get
to keep it and be "God's people".

"dshar...@gmail.com" wrote

Do tell where your "bible" states that Jews are permitted
'whatever they wanted about God and still get to keep it
and be "God's people"'. The bible with which the rest of
us are familiar clearly states the opposite.

Bible Believer <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:

Did I say it was my belief?

Did I state you said it was your belief?

Bible Believer <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:

Yes, when you asked me where "my Bible" says it.

Wrong. Read the foregoing sloooooowly and carefully. It states: Do
tell where your "bible" states that Jews are permitted 'whatever they
wanted about God and still get to keep it and be "God's people"'. Is
that stated in your bible, as you claim?

Act like an ***** with someone else and waste their
time. You obviously haven't the integrity to admit
when you're wrong.

I fail to see where, exactly, I'm wrong.

Whose belief did I say it was?

You stated it was the "Jews' belief" that "they haven't received all
of their land yet, nor that they were to do whatever they wanted about
God and still get to keep it and be "God's people"." And that's a load
of *****.

You can cry and whine all you want, but it's true.

So produce the text which confirms your statement, your statement
being that it's "Jews' belief" that "they haven't received all of
their land yet, nor that they were to do whatever they wanted about
God and still get to keep it and be "God's people", and which
statement you claim is in your bible.

Goodbye, jack *****.

Hehehe. Request the liars to produce facts to support their lies, and
they take to their heels.
Deborah
.






User: "raven1"

Title: Re: Joshua's Altar Discovered: Archaeology Confirms The Bible Once Again 06 Feb 2007 03:57:46 PM
On 6 Feb 2007 12:11:58 -0800, "Sound of Trumpet"
<sound_of_trumpet@warpmail.net> wrote:

Joshua´s Altar Leads to Deepening National Consciousness

So what? Joshua's altar existing no more confirms the religious claims
of the Bible than the historical existence of Troy confirms that Eris
rolled a golden apple into a banquet on Olympus.
--
"O Sybilli, si ergo
Fortibus es in ero
O Nobili! Themis trux
Sivat sinem? Causen Dux"
.
User: "BernardZ"

Title: Re: Joshua's Altar Discovered: Archaeology Confirms The Bible Once Again 07 Feb 2007 02:35:44 AM
In article <0buhs2hlpb2vet3sithm1q11ppkt29toqe@4ax.com>,=20
quoththeraven@nevermore.com says...

On 6 Feb 2007 12:11:58 -0800, "Sound of Trumpet"
<sound_of_trumpet@warpmail.net> wrote:
=20

Joshua=B4s Altar Leads to Deepening National Consciousness

=20
So what?=20

It important to some people.=20

Joshua's altar existing no more confirms the religious claims
of the Bible than the historical existence of Troy confirms that Eris
rolled a golden apple into a banquet on Olympus.

The voice of reason.
Historical proof does not mean religious proof.

--
=20
"O Sybilli, si ergo
Fortibus es in ero
O Nobili! Themis trux
Sivat sinem? Causen Dux"
=20

--=20
If you are upset with my comments then some way you must care what I=20
think or with logic. Since it is unlikely to be me it must be logic.
Observations of Bernard - No 109

.
User: "Matt Giwer"

Title: Re: Joshua's Altar Discovered: Archaeology Confirms The Bible OnceAgain 07 Feb 2007 01:30:15 PM
BernardZ wrote:

In article <0buhs2hlpb2vet3sithm1q11ppkt29toqe@4ax.com>,=20
quoththeraven@nevermore.com says...

On 6 Feb 2007 12:11:58 -0800, "Sound of Trumpet"
<sound_of_trumpet@warpmail.net> wrote:

Joshua=B4s Altar Leads to Deepening National Consciousness

So what?=20

It important to some people.=20

Who cares what is important to idiots?

Joshua's altar existing no more confirms the religious claims
of the Bible than the historical existence of Troy confirms that Eris
rolled a golden apple into a banquet on Olympus.

The voice of reason.
=20
Historical proof does not mean religious proof.

What might religious proof be?
--=20
If the US supported democracy it would not be trying to overthrow the
democratically elected government of Palestine.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3741
nizkor http://www.giwersworld.org/nizkook/nizkook.phtml
antisemitism http://www.giwersworld.org/antisem/ a1
.




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