On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 18:13:03 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> said in alt.atheism:

In our last episode <m6udneniSMpfdW7cRVn-vA@comcast.com>, George Wright
lumbered into the room and mumbled:

Duke, in several of your posts, you apply the designation "junior
atheist" to other posters. I assume that's your characterization.

What do you mean this to convey? Do you distinguish between junior
atheists and others? if so, how?

He's apparently trying to be insulting. But he's not very *good at it...

The only things Earl is good at are being wrong and being stupid.

I have no answers to anything, just some comments questions that I
would appreciate any response from atheists if I am out of line
or perhaps on point about something. That is presuming there is a line,
of course.




I have lost all faith in the existence do dieties.

I don't don't think I have ever truly believed, but the
few times I prayed in high stress situations I felt better.

Now, I don't pray but I try to draw strength from inside me
and am somehow able to do it, although I don't know how I am doing it.
Perhaps the proper chemicals are induced when I tighten my jaw, scowl,
or clench my fist.

Although I was convinced that dieties do not exist beforehand, 9/11 and
what has followed has made me almost hate religion, but not hate the
concept of a hands-off God (even if he existed), but any organized
religious faith as all seem to pervert their fundamental teachings in
some manner, usually through attempted to "force" their beleif
structures on other folks. The current worldwide holy war with militant
fundamentalist Islam is nothing new, it's currency helps me focus. It
appears to me that faith can generate just as much evil as good,
although, in the long run, it probably serves a purpose in helping
ordinary, escpecially ignorant
people in finding meaning in their lives and also helps prevent disorder
and also does much good in terms of charities etc, although I think I am
correct in saying that in areas where
God did exist before Christians and Muslims etc brought the faith, many
societies seem to have gotten along fine, although most were primitive.
I assume that religion has been a major factor in making civilization
what it is today by creating moral norms for worldwide distribution.

As an educated but still ignorant person I think I can see the reason
for religion as well as the lessening need for it in the world. The
current state of religions have their roots in a very ignorant past.
"New" religions, or at least new belief structures that try to blend
science and faith seem to be patently absurd.

However, most educated people still tend to believe in a diety yet their
actions are not consistent with the fundamental faith they purport to
support. Arrogance, perhaps?

I don't know. I guess I am rambling. I have become fairly comfortable
with my belief, although I still have this fear of death (unknown) that
is not an overriding fear, I accept it, but I guess an unease as I have
no real concept of life after death.

To me we are finite beings to whom death brings the end of our
existence. We did not exist before birth and will not exist afterwards.
Through bizarre burial techniques that conserve the corpse it is
unlikely our basic elements will replenish the earth ever again. We are
burided deep in the ground so that our bodies will never again
contribute to life. I find that disheartening. Guess I am a soylent
green kind of person. It is what we do on earth now that defines us to
civilization and to ourselves, at least while we exist.

When death comes, I don't think there will be any flying out and being
one with the heavens...we are so insignificant in the universal picture.
We belong here, we exist, like everything else in the universe exists.
We are more complex than most of the matter found in the universe and I
think it is undoubted that life exists here and there in our galaxy and
throughout the universe, but that life is so distant that it is unlikely
that we will even know it.

But my realization (that is my feeling) is that none of the that
matters. Any piece of matter should stand for something. Although our
life is only a sub atomic faint flash in the universal scheme, I think
we still have value, although it is not the value that we tend to
put on ourselves. Although we lip-service it, society still seems to
tend to think that we are the eventually masters of the universe, that
we, will eventually become God.

I don't know where I am going with this. Probably nowhere.

Is what I feel an uncommon feeling, or do others share it?

But my realization (that is my feeling) is that none of the that
matters.

However, most educated people still tend to believe in a diety yet their
actions are not consistent with the fundamental faith they purport to
support. Arrogance, perhaps?

I don't know. I guess I am rambling. I have become fairly comfortable
with my belief, although I still have this fear of death (unknown) that
is not an overriding fear, I accept it, but I guess an unease as I have
no real concept of life after death.

I don't know where I am going with this. Probably nowhere.
Is what I feel an uncommon feeling, or do others share it?

I have no answers to anything, just some comments questions that I
would appreciate any response from atheists if I am out of line
or perhaps on point about something. That is presuming there is a line,
of course.

I have lost all faith in the existence do dieties.

I don't don't think I have ever truly believed, but the
few times I prayed in high stress situations I felt better.

Now, I don't pray but I try to draw strength from inside me
and am somehow able to do it, although I don't know how I am doing it.
Perhaps the proper chemicals are induced when I tighten my jaw, scowl,
or clench my fist.

Although I was convinced that dieties do not exist beforehand, 9/11 and
what has followed has made me almost hate religion, but not hate the
concept of a hands-off God (even if he existed), but any organized
religious faith as all seem to pervert their fundamental teachings in
some manner, usually through attempted to "force" their beleif
structures on other folks.

The current worldwide holy war with militant
fundamentalist Islam is nothing new, it's currency helps me focus. It
appears to me that faith can generate just as much evil as good,

although, in the long run, it probably serves a purpose in helping
ordinary, escpecially ignorant people in finding meaning in their
lives and also helps prevent disorder

and also does much good in terms of charities etc, although I think I am
correct in saying that in areas where
God did exist before Christians and Muslims etc brought the faith, many
societies seem to have gotten along fine, although most were primitive.

I assume that religion has been a major factor in making civilization
what it is today by creating moral norms for worldwide distribution.

As an educated but still ignorant person I think I can see the reason
for religion as well as the lessening need for it in the world. The
current state of religions have their roots in a very ignorant past.

"New" religions, or at least new belief structures that try to blend
science and faith seem to be patently absurd.

However, most educated people still tend to believe in a diety yet their
actions are not consistent with the fundamental faith they purport to
support. Arrogance, perhaps?

I don't know. I guess I am rambling. I have become fairly comfortable
with my belief, although I still have this fear of death (unknown) that
is not an overriding fear, I accept it, but I guess an unease as I have
no real concept of life after death.

To me we are finite beings to whom death brings the end of our
existence. We did not exist before birth and will not exist afterwards.
Through bizarre burial techniques that conserve the corpse it is
unlikely our basic elements will replenish the earth ever again. We are
burided deep in the ground so that our bodies will never again
contribute to life. I find that disheartening. Guess I am a soylent
green kind of person. It is what we do on earth now that defines us to
civilization and to ourselves, at least while we exist.

When death comes, I don't think there will be any flying out and being
one with the heavens...we are so insignificant in the universal picture.
We belong here, we exist, like everything else in the universe exists.
We are more complex than most of the matter found in the universe and I
think it is undoubted that life exists here and there in our galaxy and
throughout the universe, but that life is so distant that it is unlikely
that we will even know it.

But my realization (that is my feeling) is that none of the that
matters. Any piece of matter should stand for something. Although our
life is only a sub atomic faint flash in the universal scheme, I think
we still have value, although it is not the value that we tend to
put on ourselves. Although we lip-service it, society still seems to
tend to think that we are the eventually masters of the universe, that
we, will eventually become God.

I don't know where I am going with this. Probably nowhere.

Is what I feel an uncommon feeling, or do others share it?

What about his one moment after gambit?

Sure scares the hell out of me

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 19:17:20 GMT, John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote:

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 13:11:08 -0500, "George Wright" <geo@loyola.edu>
wrote:

Duke, in several of your posts, you apply the designation "junior atheist"
to other posters. I assume that's your characterization.

It's Duke's idea of an insult. Pretty lame, but it's the best he can
do. <G>

What about his one moment after gambit? Sure scares the hell out of me
:-)