| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jason Spaceman" |
| Date: |
15 Feb 2005 08:52:56 PM |
| Object: |
Kansas: Lawmaker introduces evolution resolution |
From the article:
------------------------------------------------------
J-W staff reports
Tuesday, February 15, 2005
TOPEKA — A resolution introduced today in the Kansas House urges
schools to tell students that when it comes to evolution, students
should be taught "the full range of scientific views that exist."
Rep. Mary Pilcher-Cook, R-Shawnee, said her non-binding resolution was
designed to promote "objectivity in science education."
-----------------------------------------------------
Read it at http://www.ljworld.com/section/stateregional/story/196350
J. Spaceman
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas: Lawmaker introduces evolution resolution |
15 Feb 2005 11:36:43 PM |
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From the article:
"Pilcher-Cook denied that she was trying to undo evolution instruction or
insert creationism into school curriculum.
"I'm leaving that in the State Board of Education's hands," she said."
How very kind of her to admit that she is leaving the dirty work to others.
Skitter the Cat
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| User: "HPLfan" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas: Lawmaker introduces evolution resolution |
16 Feb 2005 07:49:36 AM |
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I see nothing wrong with the resolution, since ID is religion and not a
scientific view it would naturally not be included. Sounds pretty
straightforward to me.
If they want religion in the school system so much, perhaps we should
require that schools add a religion class to schools to satisfy the fundies?
Of course, we would have to include a critical study of all the world's
religions, mythologies and superstitions equally which means the critical
study of Biblical Creationism would get about half a day. We'll sandwich it
between the story of Pan Gu and the Enuma Elish.
(this is sarcasm)
"Jason Spaceman" <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote in message
news:1tc51194id84numcotreim500mmrhh7ten@4ax.com...
From the article:
------------------------------------------------------
J-W staff reports
Tuesday, February 15, 2005
TOPEKA - A resolution introduced today in the Kansas House urges
schools to tell students that when it comes to evolution, students
should be taught "the full range of scientific views that exist."
Rep. Mary Pilcher-Cook, R-Shawnee, said her non-binding resolution was
designed to promote "objectivity in science education."
-----------------------------------------------------
Read it at http://www.ljworld.com/section/stateregional/story/196350
J. Spaceman
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas: Lawmaker introduces evolution resolution |
16 Feb 2005 10:47:23 AM |
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In our last episode <1tc51194id84numcotreim500mmrhh7ten@4ax.com>, Jason
Spaceman lumbered into the room and mumbled:
A resolution introduced today in the Kansas House urges schools
to tell students that when it comes to evolution, students should be
taught "the full range of scientific views that exist."
How ironic...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true,
by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
-- Seneca the Younger
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas: Lawmaker introduces evolution resolution |
17 Feb 2005 08:34:01 PM |
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On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 10:47:23 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In our last episode <1tc51194id84numcotreim500mmrhh7ten@4ax.com>, Jason
Spaceman lumbered into the room and mumbled:
A resolution introduced today in the Kansas House urges schools
to tell students that when it comes to evolution, students should be
taught "the full range of scientific views that exist."
How ironic...
Indeed. Such is a statehouse full of 'intelligent design.'
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas: Lawmaker introduces evolution resolution |
15 Feb 2005 09:22:08 PM |
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Jason Spaceman <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote in
news:1tc51194id84numcotreim500mmrhh7ten@4ax.com:
From the article:
------------------------------------------------------
J-W staff reports
Tuesday, February 15, 2005
TOPEKA — A resolution introduced today in the Kansas House urges
schools to tell students that when it comes to evolution, students
should be taught "the full range of scientific views that exist."
Rep. Mary Pilcher-Cook, R-Shawnee, said her non-binding resolution was
designed to promote "objectivity in science education."
-----------------------------------------------------
Read it at http://www.ljworld.com/section/stateregional/story/196350
J. Spaceman
The really sad part about all of this, is the realization that these
people are the elelcted officals of this country.
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
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| User: "Harlequin" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas: Lawmaker introduces evolution resolution |
16 Feb 2005 10:01:54 AM |
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Woden <woden@charter.net> wrote in
news:Xns95FEE349DDFE0wodencharternet@69.28.186.121:
The really sad part about all of this, is the realization that these
people are the elelcted officals of this country.
I really fail to understand why our elected officials will
be any more knowledgable about evolutionary biology
than the population at large.
Indeed, the professions which require strong scientific
knowledge are generally composed of people less likely
to run for public office than many other professions.
And this country also has a great many career politicians
which results in many of them knowing a great deal of
politics but not being too knowledgable on anything
outside of politics (except possibly the fields which
they are long-time members of a relevant standing
committees).
Having many career politicians also encourages them
to pander to the masses instead of displaying leadership
in order to try to stay in office.
Long term, the only way to do better with politicans
is to do better with the public at large. 1) They
come from the population. 2) They represent the
population at large.
--
Anti-spam: replace "usenet@sdc." with "harlequin2@"
"Creationists don't want equal time. They want all the time there is."
- Isaac Asimov
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| User: "Bill" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas: Lawmaker introduces evolution resolution |
16 Feb 2005 03:19:44 PM |
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Politicians essentially represent the legal profession. Sixty five percent
of legislators at both the State and Federal level
are licensed Lawyers. That is why our laws are so abstruse and complex.
--
Bill
"Harlequin" <usenet@sdc.cox.net> wrote in message
news:Xns95FF65F68D4Ausenet123mmcablecom@68.12.19.6...
Woden <woden@charter.net> wrote in
news:Xns95FEE349DDFE0wodencharternet@69.28.186.121:
The really sad part about all of this, is the realization that these
people are the elelcted officals of this country.
I really fail to understand why our elected officials will
be any more knowledgable about evolutionary biology
than the population at large.
Indeed, the professions which require strong scientific
knowledge are generally composed of people less likely
to run for public office than many other professions.
And this country also has a great many career politicians
which results in many of them knowing a great deal of
politics but not being too knowledgable on anything
outside of politics (except possibly the fields which
they are long-time members of a relevant standing
committees).
Having many career politicians also encourages them
to pander to the masses instead of displaying leadership
in order to try to stay in office.
Long term, the only way to do better with politicans
is to do better with the public at large. 1) They
come from the population. 2) They represent the
population at large.
--
Anti-spam: replace "usenet@sdc." with "harlequin2@"
"Creationists don't want equal time. They want all the time there is."
- Isaac Asimov
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| User: "Harlequin" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas: Lawmaker introduces evolution resolution |
16 Feb 2005 06:25:36 PM |
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"Bill" <wmech@worldnet.att.net> wrote in
news:QNOQd.225051$w62.191739@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
Politicians essentially represent the legal profession. Sixty five
percent of legislators at both the State and Federal level
are licensed Lawyers. That is why our laws are so abstruse and
complex.
While I certainly would want a bunch of lawyers and political science
people involved for obvious expertise, we certaintly have way
too many of them. I really wish we had a lot more people recently
out of other professions especially if those professions
are not acting or athletics.
--
Anti-spam: replace "usenet@sdc." with "harlequin2@"
"Creationists don't want equal time. They want all the time there is."
- Isaac Asimov
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| User: "Richard M Braun" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas: Lawmaker introduces evolution resolution |
15 Feb 2005 10:35:21 PM |
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Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
------------------------------------------------------
J-W staff reports
Tuesday, February 15, 2005
TOPEKA — A resolution introduced today in the Kansas House urges
schools to tell students that when it comes to evolution, students
should be taught "the full range of scientific views that exist."
Rep. Mary Pilcher-Cook, R-Shawnee, said her non-binding resolution was
designed to promote "objectivity in science education."
-----------------------------------------------------
Read it at http://www.ljworld.com/section/stateregional/story/196350
J. Spaceman
I don't believe this means much. I suspect in Kansas "the full range of
scientific views that exist" means anyone with a degree and refers to
themselves as a scientist can give their scientific view.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas: Lawmaker introduces evolution resolution |
16 Feb 2005 01:27:23 AM |
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On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 22:35:21 -0600, Richard M Braun
<rmbraun@charter.net> said in alt.atheism:
I don't believe this means much. I suspect in Kansas "the full range of
scientific views that exist" means anyone with a degree and refers to
themselves as a scientist can give their scientific view.
I think you're only partly correct. I think that, in Kansas, it would
mean that anyone, degreed or not, with the "right" view, can declare
it to be a scientific view and have it taught in the public schools.
--
rukbat at verizon dot net
"I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is
a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the
crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due
to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious
indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility
corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of
nature and of our own being."
- Albert Einstein to Guy H. Raner Jr., Sept. 28, 1949, from article by
Michael R. Gilmore in Skeptic magazine, Vol. 5, No. 2, 1997
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
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| User: "Richard M Braun" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas: Lawmaker introduces evolution resolution |
16 Feb 2005 07:42:14 AM |
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Al Klein wrote:
On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 22:35:21 -0600, Richard M Braun
<rmbraun@charter.net> said in alt.atheism:
I don't believe this means much. I suspect in Kansas "the full range of
scientific views that exist" means anyone with a degree and refers to
themselves as a scientist can give their scientific view.
I think you're only partly correct. I think that, in Kansas, it would
mean that anyone, degreed or not, with the "right" view, can declare
it to be a scientific view and have it taught in the public schools.
Yep, I would use that technique on my kids from time to time when they
were younger. They would bug me about something and I would say
something that sounds like I am supporting their position. Later they
find that what I said actually supports my position. Now in their mid
teens they usually won't let me get away with it anymore.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas: Lawmaker introduces evolution resolution |
17 Feb 2005 05:22:19 PM |
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On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 07:42:14 -0600, Richard M Braun
<rmbraun@charter.net> said in alt.atheism:
Yep, I would use that technique on my kids from time to time when they
were younger. They would bug me about something and I would say
something that sounds like I am supporting their position. Later they
find that what I said actually supports my position. Now in their mid
teens they usually won't let me get away with it anymore.
Nothing like teaching them to think for themselves.
--
rukbat at verizon dot net
"Christians, it is needless to say, utterly detest each other. They slander each
other constantly with the vilest forms of abuse and cannot come to any sort of
agreement in their teachings. Each sect brands its own, fills the head of its own
with deceitful nonsense, and makes perfect little pigs of those it wins over to its
side."
- Celsus On the True Doctrine, translated by R. Joseph Hoffman, Oxford University Press, 1987
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
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| User: "Carl Kaufmann" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas: Lawmaker introduces evolution resolution |
16 Feb 2005 11:23:44 AM |
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Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
------------------------------------------------------
J-W staff reports
Tuesday, February 15, 2005
TOPEKA — A resolution introduced today in the Kansas House urges
schools to tell students that when it comes to evolution, students
should be taught "the full range of scientific views that exist."
Rep. Mary Pilcher-Cook, R-Shawnee, said her non-binding resolution was
designed to promote "objectivity in science education."
-----------------------------------------------------
Read it at http://www.ljworld.com/section/stateregional/story/196350
J. Spaceman
So how is that different from just teaching evolutionary theory?
--
EAC Liar, Damned Liar, and Statistician
alt.atheist #1966
"Statistical thinking will one day be as necessary for efficient
citizenship as the ability to read and write." - H.G. Wells
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| User: "Matt Giwer" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas: Lawmaker introduces evolution resolution |
16 Feb 2005 12:03:32 AM |
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Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
------------------------------------------------------
J-W staff reports
Tuesday, February 15, 2005
TOPEKA — A resolution introduced today in the Kansas House urges
schools to tell students that when it comes to evolution, students
should be taught "the full range of scientific views that exist."
Rep. Mary Pilcher-Cook, R-Shawnee, said her non-binding resolution was
designed to promote "objectivity in science education."
-----------------------------------------------------
Read it at http://www.ljworld.com/section/stateregional/story/196350
This subject in these newsgroups appears to be attracting believers instead of thinkers as the
quality of the follow-ups appears to be declining.
There are both the fact of evolution and theories as to why it occurs. This ID crap does not
question the fact of evolution. It (pretends to) offers an alternative explanation of the facts. The
crux of the explanation is in design. The adjective intelligent is superfluous and not apparent to
people with poor eyesight, bad backs and flat feet as well as cancer and a host of other amusing
maladies.
So first design must be demonstrated. This design must be shown to be both different from random
combinations of differences and from Edison's random testing of thousands of things in trying to
make a light bulb. Edison (his team actually) did nothing intelligent in its efforts other than
eliminate what did not work. So that does not significantly differ from natural selection.
Having made a career of R&D and seeing how humans work I cannot find a distinction between natural
selection and design as both experiment and discard errors. Humans simply do it a trillion times
faster than natural selection. So we are down to the adjective intelligent. Here again we have
intelligent humans doing it a trillion times faster than this intelligent designer. And then we
compare the results of both intelligences.
Back to the flat feet and wearing glasses, if there is an designer it is abysmally stupid,
incompetant and not nearly in the league of human designers who are superior to it in every respect
by orders of magnitude.
--
All the fuss of criticism of Israel. Criticism of America
is a hundred times more severe and more frequent.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3371
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| User: "Dan Clore" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas: Lawmaker introduces evolution resolution |
16 Feb 2005 03:14:18 PM |
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Jason Spaceman wrote:
From the article:
------------------------------------------------------
J-W staff reports
Tuesday, February 15, 2005
TOPEKA — A resolution introduced today in the Kansas House urges
schools to tell students that when it comes to evolution, students
should be taught "the full range of scientific views that exist."
Rep. Mary Pilcher-Cook, R-Shawnee, said her non-binding resolution was
designed to promote "objectivity in science education."
-----------------------------------------------------
Read it at http://www.ljworld.com/section/stateregional/story/196350
One can only hope that this means they will include the
theory of evolution presented by H.P. Blavatsky in _The
Secret Doctrine: The Synthesis of Science, Religion, and
Philosophy_.
--
Dan Clore
My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1587154838/thedanclorenecro/
Lord We˙rdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind.
-- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"
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| User: "Lizard" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas: Lawmaker introduces evolution resolution |
16 Feb 2005 03:44:32 PM |
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On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 21:52:56 -0500, Jason Spaceman
<notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrotC:DRIVE_E
From the article:
------------------------------------------------------
J-W staff reports
Tuesday, February 15, 2005
TOPEKA — A resolution introduced today in the Kansas House urges
schools to tell students that when it comes to evolution, students
should be taught "the full range of scientific views that exist."
So, that would limit it to teaching evolution, as there are no other
existing scientific views. Can't see a problem.
*----------------------------------------------------*
Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard
"I've heard of this thing men call 'empathy', but I've never
once been afflicted with it, thanks the Gods." Bruno The Bandit
http://www.mrlizard.com
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas: Lawmaker introduces evolution resolution |
17 Feb 2005 08:34:51 PM |
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On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:44:32 -0500, Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 21:52:56 -0500, Jason Spaceman
<notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrotC:DRIVE_E
From the article:
------------------------------------------------------
J-W staff reports
Tuesday, February 15, 2005
TOPEKA — A resolution introduced today in the Kansas House urges
schools to tell students that when it comes to evolution, students
should be taught "the full range of scientific views that exist."
So, that would limit it to teaching evolution, as there are no other
existing scientific views. Can't see a problem.
According to the fundamentally pig ignorant superstition is science.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
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| User: "P. Chartier" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas: Lawmaker introduces evolution resolution |
15 Feb 2005 09:06:57 PM |
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That is a very good thing, because it will simplify everything. Just stay
with the facts: Evolution is a
fact. That's all you have to teach. Now if you want to add to it the theory
of natural selection of species, that's
fine as well.
PC
"Jason Spaceman" <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote in message
news:1tc51194id84numcotreim500mmrhh7ten@4ax.com...
From the article:
------------------------------------------------------
J-W staff reports
Tuesday, February 15, 2005
TOPEKA - A resolution introduced today in the Kansas House urges
schools to tell students that when it comes to evolution, students
should be taught "the full range of scientific views that exist."
Rep. Mary Pilcher-Cook, R-Shawnee, said her non-binding resolution was
designed to promote "objectivity in science education."
-----------------------------------------------------
Read it at http://www.ljworld.com/section/stateregional/story/196350
J. Spaceman
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| User: "Dr.GH" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas: Lawmaker introduces evolution resolution |
17 Feb 2005 05:35:50 PM |
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Hehe heeh
I know that would be so cool. But the sad truth is many 'science'
teachers haven't a clue about what the ToE is, or how to teach it to
students. Plus, how can we teach why creationism is a total karking
fraud while avoiding the derogation of religion (which is the flip-side
of the 1st amendment).
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| User: "Dave Thompson" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas: Lawmaker introduces evolution resolution |
17 Feb 2005 05:47:47 PM |
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"Dr.GH" <garyhard@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1108683350.678388.234650@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Hehe heeh
I know that would be so cool. But the sad truth is many 'science'
teachers haven't a clue about what the ToE is, or how to teach it to
students. Plus, how can we teach why creationism is a total karking
fraud while avoiding the derogation of religion (which is the flip-side
of the 1st amendment).
That's an easy one to figure out.
And the creationists gave you the loophole themselves that allows you to
criticize it.
It's called I.D.
It's a product of their own creation, and by their own theory a creator is
never specified.
So criticize I.D. all you want and show it to be a fraud. And if a
creationist complains that you are criticizing his god just ask, "What god
would that be? I.D. doesn't address any specific god."
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas: Lawmaker introduces evolution resolution |
18 Feb 2005 06:11:54 PM |
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On 17 Feb 2005 15:35:50 -0800, "Dr.GH" <garyhard@earthlink.net> wrote:
Hehe heeh
I know that would be so cool. But the sad truth is many 'science'
teachers haven't a clue about what the ToE is, or how to teach it to
students. Plus, how can we teach why creationism is a total karking
fraud while avoiding the derogation of religion (which is the flip-side
of the 1st amendment).
Flat state Cretinism and I.D. are flat rubbish and indicate why.
With the rubbish being drooled all over the place it is fair game.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas: Lawmaker introduces evolution resolution |
21 Feb 2005 10:29:18 PM |
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On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 16:11:54 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> said in
alt.atheism:
Flat state Cretinism and I.D. are flat rubbish and indicate why.
With the rubbish being drooled all over the place it is fair game.
Just don't address it at all. If a student brings it up, say
something like, "This is a science class. We don't study religious
beliefs here." Then move on.
--
rukbat at verizon dot net
"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but
not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings."
-A. Einstein (1929 -- Einstein Archive 33-272)
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Kansas: Lawmaker introduces evolution resolution |
22 Feb 2005 10:03:13 AM |
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On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 04:29:18 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 16:11:54 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> said in
alt.atheism:
Flat state Cretinism and I.D. are flat rubbish and indicate why.
With the rubbish being drooled all over the place it is fair game.
Just don't address it at all. If a student brings it up, say
something like, "This is a science class. We don't study religious
beliefs here." Then move on.
That's an even better menthod.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
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