| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"ernobe" |
| Date: |
06 Jun 2006 10:55:32 PM |
| Object: |
Lack of belief in atheism |
Atheists have convinced themselves that they lack belief in God, and
are off trying to remedy their lack, trying to gain belief in God by
corresponding with theists in newsgroups. Their leaders, meanwhile,
realizing the contradiction, have begun calling themselves strong
atheists, and have secretly decided that atheism really means the
belief in the absence of belief in God. Both groups, however, do not
believe that God exists, so by taking God out of the definition of
atheism, we have that atheism is the belief in the absence of belief.
Such a belief believes at least that the absence of belief exists, so
the ordinary atheists, following the leadership, believe that the
absence of things really is something that exists, and is not merely an
absence in the sense of a lack of something. So hate really does
exist, and is not merely the absence of love, and the same with hope
and despair, good and evil, etc. I wonder though, if in taking God out
of the picture, the devil has not taken the better of them.
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| User: "GoDrex" |
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| Title: Re: Lack of belief in atheism |
06 Jun 2006 11:09:59 PM |
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"ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1149652532.072559.287870@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Such a belief believes
belief believes... yep you're a crack pot
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| User: "newbert" |
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| Title: Re: Lack of belief in atheism |
07 Jun 2006 07:54:23 PM |
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Allow me to polish up what you said a bit so that it's a bit more
intelligent...
ernobe SHOULD HAVE written:
"Atheists...lack belief in God, and...are...trying to remedy...belief
in God by...corresponding...in newsgroups. ...[A]theism really means
the...absence of belief in God. ...[T]aking God out of the definition
of atheism, we have...absence. ...[S]o...ordinary
atheists...following...sense...hate...the absence of love, and the same
with hope...etc. I wonder though, if...taking...out...the devil...[is]
better...."
(Ok I had to insert ONE word, "is,"...but overall what he says now
isn't too crazy.)
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| User: "Don Kresch" |
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| Title: Re: Lack of belief in atheism |
07 Jun 2006 09:55:06 PM |
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In alt.atheism On 6 Jun 2006 20:55:32 -0700, "ernobe"
<ernobe@yahoo.com> let us all know that:
Stop trolling.
Don
---
aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Lack of belief in atheism |
10 Jun 2006 11:34:39 AM |
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On 6 Jun 2006 20:55:32 -0700, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote in
alt.atheism
Atheists have convinced themselves that they lack belief in God
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTHHHHHHHHHHH
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Lack of belief in atheism |
07 Jun 2006 02:59:01 AM |
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On 6 Jun 2006 20:55:32 -0700, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
- Refer: <1149652532.072559.287870@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>
I believe that you are a total fuckwit.
My belief is supported by many indisputable facts.
--
Michael Gray.
Founding Member and Doorman,
Earthquack's 666 Club.
EAC Apprentice Thumbscrew Oiler.
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: Lack of belief in atheism |
06 Jun 2006 11:20:17 PM |
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On 6 Jun 2006 20:55:32 -0700, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
Atheists have convinced themselves that they lack belief in God,
Theists have convinced themselves that they know what they're talking
about when it comes to atheists. They don't, of course, but not
knowing what he's talking about has never stopped a theist from
talking.
and are off trying to remedy their lack, trying to gain belief in God by
corresponding with theists in newsgroups.
If theists would keep their ignorant horseshit to themselves and stay
the hell out of our newsgroups, we wouldn't need to "correspond" with
them, now, would we?
Are you really this stupid, or did you take lessons?
<remaining stupidity snipped>
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| User: "ernobe" |
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| Title: Re: Lack of belief in atheism |
07 Jun 2006 05:24:30 PM |
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John Baker wrote:
On 6 Jun 2006 20:55:32 -0700, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
Atheists have convinced themselves that they lack belief in God,
Theists have convinced themselves that they know what they're talking
about when it comes to atheists.
I have convinced myself that I know what I'm talking about when it
comes to atheism, and the membership to alt.atheism is open to theists.
If that bugs you then have a talk with the atheist leadership, and get
us politely kicked out.
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| User: "kathryn" |
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| Title: Re: Lack of belief in atheism |
10 Jun 2006 09:13:35 AM |
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"ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1149719070.756837.53390@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
John Baker wrote:
On 6 Jun 2006 20:55:32 -0700, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
Atheists have convinced themselves that they lack belief in God,
Theists have convinced themselves that they know what they're talking
about when it comes to atheists.
I have convinced myself that I know what I'm talking about when it
comes to atheism,
you've failed to convince anyone else though.
and the membership to alt.atheism is open to theists.
If that bugs you then have a talk with the atheist leadership, and get
us politely kicked out.
There is no membership on usenet.
We have a leadership? I don't recall it being mentioned in the newsletter!
:o\
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Lack of belief in atheism |
10 Jun 2006 07:31:09 PM |
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On Sat, 10 Jun 2006 15:13:35 +0100, "kathryn" <nospam@here.com> wrote:
- Refer: <6aWdnU6WStoNThfZnZ2dnUVZ8qGdnZ2d@bt.com>
"ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1149719070.756837.53390@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
John Baker wrote:
On 6 Jun 2006 20:55:32 -0700, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
Atheists have convinced themselves that they lack belief in God,
Theists have convinced themselves that they know what they're talking
about when it comes to atheists.
I have convinced myself that I know what I'm talking about when it
comes to atheism,
you've failed to convince anyone else though.
and the membership to alt.atheism is open to theists.
If that bugs you then have a talk with the atheist leadership, and get
us politely kicked out.
There is no membership on usenet.
We have a leadership? I don't recall it being mentioned in the newsletter!
:o\
It was in the EAC Gazette. Issue #0666, June 2005, Pages 4-5.
Check your copy again.
--
Michael Gray.
Founding Member and Doorman,
Earthquack's 666 Club.
EAC Apprentice Thumbscrew Oiler.
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| User: "NC" |
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| Title: Re: Lack of belief in atheism |
07 Jun 2006 07:40:45 PM |
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"ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
I have convinced myself that I know what I'm talking about
No information from outside of yourself? Well, that's honesty.
the membership to alt.atheism is open to theists. If that bugs you
then have a talk with the atheist leadership, and get us politely
kicked out.
"Membership"? Proof that you have no understanding of Usenet.
Folks, this is what happens when people get net access through
their livingroom TV.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Lack of belief in atheism |
08 Jun 2006 03:55:30 AM |
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On 7 Jun 2006 15:24:30 -0700, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
- Refer: <1149719070.756837.53390@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
John Baker wrote:
On 6 Jun 2006 20:55:32 -0700, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
Atheists have convinced themselves that they lack belief in God,
Theists have convinced themselves that they know what they're talking
about when it comes to atheists.
I have convinced myself that I know what I'm talking about when it
comes to atheism,
Well, it comes from the highest authority then.
Circular "thinking" at it's best.
and the membership to alt.atheism is open to theists.
Membership?
What fucking membership?
Where are your dues?
If that bugs you then have a talk with the atheist leadership, and get
us politely kicked out.
Pay up, or leave now. You are starting to irritate the dining patrons.
--
Michael Gray.
Founding Member and Doorman,
Earthquack's 666 Club.
EAC Apprentice Thumbscrew Oiler.
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: Lack of belief in atheism |
08 Jun 2006 02:14:35 AM |
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On 7 Jun 2006 15:24:30 -0700, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
John Baker wrote:
On 6 Jun 2006 20:55:32 -0700, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
Atheists have convinced themselves that they lack belief in God,
Theists have convinced themselves that they know what they're talking
about when it comes to atheists.
I have convinced myself that I know what I'm talking about when it
comes to atheism,
Yes, but you haven't convinced *me*, and that's what counts in this
NG, junior.
and the membership to alt.atheism is open to theists.
If that bugs you then have a talk with the atheist leadership, and get
us politely kicked out.
There is no "atheist leadership", moron. Unlike you lot, we don't
follow leaders.
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| User: "raven1" |
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| Title: Re: Lack of belief in atheism |
07 Jun 2006 03:55:52 PM |
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On 6 Jun 2006 20:55:32 -0700, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
Atheists have convinced themselves that they lack belief in God, and
are off trying to remedy their lack, trying to gain belief in God by
corresponding with theists in newsgroups.
Err, no, thanks for playing.
--
"O Sybilli, si ergo
Fortibus es in ero
O Nobili! Themis trux
Sivat sinem? Causen Dux"
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Lack of belief in atheism |
06 Jun 2006 11:21:13 PM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet ernobe (ernobe@yahoo.com)
made the light shine upon us with this:
Atheists have convinced themselves that they lack belief in God, and
are off trying to remedy their lack, trying to gain belief in God by
corresponding with theists in newsgroups. Their leaders, meanwhile,
realizing the contradiction, have begun calling themselves strong
atheists, and have secretly decided that atheism really means the
belief in the absence of belief in God. Both groups, however, do not
believe that God exists, so by taking God out of the definition of
atheism, we have that atheism is the belief in the absence of belief.
Such a belief believes at least that the absence of belief exists, so
the ordinary atheists, following the leadership, believe that the
absence of things really is something that exists, and is not merely an
absence in the sense of a lack of something. So hate really does
exist, and is not merely the absence of love, and the same with hope
and despair, good and evil, etc. I wonder though, if in taking God out
of the picture, the devil has not taken the better of them.
Careful, dude. We breastfeed unattended Christian children, ya know.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
The laws that require me to NOT kill people I don't like REALLY bug
me, or there would be many less of YOUR kind.
-John Weatherly
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Lack of belief in atheism |
07 Jun 2006 07:02:14 AM |
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Previously, on alt.atheism, ernobe in episode
<1149652532.072559.287870@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>...
Atheists have convinced themselves that they lack belief in God, and are
off trying to remedy their lack, trying to gain belief in God by
corresponding with theists in newsgroups. Their leaders, meanwhile,
realizing the contradiction, have begun calling themselves strong
atheists, and have secretly decided that atheism really means the belief
in the absence of belief in God. Both groups, however, do not believe
that God exists, so by taking God out of the definition of atheism, we
have that atheism is the belief in the absence of belief. Such a belief
believes at least that the absence of belief exists, so the ordinary
atheists, following the leadership, believe that the absence of things
really is something that exists, and is not merely an absence in the sense
of a lack of something. So hate really does exist, and is not merely the
absence of love, and the same with hope and despair, good and evil, etc.
I wonder though, if in taking God out of the picture, the devil has not
taken the better of them.
I'm sorry but I don't speak gibberish.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
"As hip as it is for outsiders to blame New Orleans
for everything bad that happened during and after
Hurricane Katrina, the truth is that the people
who lived here were much more prepared for a big
storm than the federal government that promised
us flood protection." [Jarvis DeBerry]
http://makeashorterlink.com/?V180525DC
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
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| User: "SpankyTClown" |
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| Title: Re: Lack of belief in atheism |
09 Jun 2006 10:10:31 AM |
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Your rationale of believe does not include the idea of zero. As in
nothing, the absence of anything, the constant function whose value is
zero for every element in its domain. If you take the last definition
and apply it towards a single god worshiping theists belief system you
end up with something interesting.
Theist believe in the statement "god is in everything", but since zero
is in everything as a constant then God obviously must equal zero.
Thereby God does not exsist. It a bit of a dogs lunch logic wise, but
then again I'm just screwing around waiting for some source to finish
compiling.
I wasn't raised Christian, Muslim, Jewish or anything. My parents were
both atheists and raised the bunch of us according to ethics rather
than morals. No belief needed, no prayer, no ancient tombs of
messianical wisdom, no being "raised atheist" either. I would get in
***** for bad grades, I played sports, had girlfriends, found a career I
like, worked hard, got ahead, got married, had kids. Never once
committing to a diety, belief system or a superstitous practice
involving symbols, song or sacriment either by myself or with a group.
I can get by with ethics to understand that I don't shoot people in the
head, ***** their wife or steal from others.
But what is the true purpose of belief systems? It is to tell people
that their is something better after death, or gains that can be made
in life through ritual. It's obviously a little dogmatic, but if
someone needs that to cope with life then I suppose that's the way they
are built.
ernobe wrote:
Atheists have convinced themselves that they lack belief in God, and
are off trying to remedy their lack, trying to gain belief in God by
corresponding with theists in newsgroups. Their leaders, meanwhile,
realizing the contradiction, have begun calling themselves strong
atheists, and have secretly decided that atheism really means the
belief in the absence of belief in God. Both groups, however, do not
believe that God exists, so by taking God out of the definition of
atheism, we have that atheism is the belief in the absence of belief.
Such a belief believes at least that the absence of belief exists, so
the ordinary atheists, following the leadership, believe that the
absence of things really is something that exists, and is not merely an
absence in the sense of a lack of something. So hate really does
exist, and is not merely the absence of love, and the same with hope
and despair, good and evil, etc. I wonder though, if in taking God out
of the picture, the devil has not taken the better of them.
.
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| User: "Scott Richter" |
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| Title: Re: Lack of belief in atheism |
07 Jun 2006 12:19:16 AM |
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ernobe <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
Such a belief believes at least that the absence of belief exists, so the
ordinary atheists, following the leadership, believe that the absence of
things really is something that exists, and is not merely an absence in
the sense of a lack of something.
Here's a belief we can all agree on: you're an idiot.
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| User: "Chris Johnson" |
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| Title: Re: Lack of belief in atheism |
06 Jun 2006 11:41:18 PM |
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ernobe wrote:
Atheists have convinced themselves that they lack belief in God
You seem to forget that we lack beliefs in a great many gods. In fact,
you lack almost as many beliefs as we do. You just have one or two that
we don't.
and
are off trying to remedy their lack, trying to gain belief in God by
corresponding with theists in newsgroups.
I'm not sure where you get this idea.
Their leaders, meanwhile,
realizing the contradiction, have begun calling themselves strong
atheists, and have secretly decided that atheism really means the
belief in the absence of belief in God.
You clearly do not know what atheism is, and you're grasp of strong
atheism is no better.
Both groups, however, do not
believe that God exists, so by taking God out of the definition of
atheism, we have that atheism is the belief in the absence of belief.
Such a belief believes at least that the absence of belief exists, so
the ordinary atheists, following the leadership, believe that the
absence of things really is something that exists, and is not merely an
absence in the sense of a lack of something.
Whew. That was convoluted. And incorrect. The fact that we use nouns
like "absence" and "lack" does not imply that we believe there are
corresponding objects.
So hate really does exist, and is not merely the absence of love,
And you thought it was otherwise? I love a very few people. That does
not imply that I hate the rest. Towards most, I am simply indifferent.
and the same with hope and despair, good and evil, etc.
You do not believe in neutrality? I have no hope of being a great
pianist, but I'm hardly in a state of despair. There are actions which
are neither inherently good nor inherently evil. Choosing steak over
pasta is hardly morally good, but I would be foolish to call it evil.
I wonder though, if in taking God out
of the picture, the devil has not taken the better of them.
Has Pluto gotten the better of you since you took Jupiter out of the
picture?
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| User: "ernobe" |
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| Title: Re: Lack of belief in atheism |
07 Jun 2006 05:53:28 PM |
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Chris Johnson wrote:
So hate really does exist, and is not merely the absence of love,
And you thought it was otherwise? I love a very few people. That does
not imply that I hate the rest. Towards most, I am simply indifferent.
Same here.
and the same with hope and despair, good and evil, etc.
You do not believe in neutrality? I have no hope of being a great
pianist, but I'm hardly in a state of despair. There are actions which
are neither inherently good nor inherently evil. Choosing steak over
pasta is hardly morally good, but I would be foolish to call it evil.
If I weren't neutral, in the sense of being impartial, about atheism
and theism, I wouldn't be wondering out loud about these things on
alt.atheism, perhaps I would have posted to alt.philosophy or
alt.psychology trying to sell an idea. As it is, I'm simply curious,
like most who read alt.atheism, about peoples ideas concerning what is
bad about atheism and good about theism or vice-versa. Since it is
always good to start from the beginning, I suppose we all post to
alt.atheism instead of alt.deism ( not sure if that group exists ),
because it is always good practice to start from that which something
isn't before knowing what it is, otherwise what usually results is an
incomplete perception of the facts.
I wonder though, if in taking God out
of the picture, the devil has not taken the better of them.
Has Pluto gotten the better of you since you took Jupiter out of the
picture?
Don't know where you got that idea.
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| User: "Chris Johnson" |
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| Title: Re: Lack of belief in atheism |
07 Jun 2006 09:54:01 PM |
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ernobe wrote:
Chris Johnson wrote:
So hate really does exist, and is not merely the absence of love,
And you thought it was otherwise? I love a very few people. That does
not imply that I hate the rest. Towards most, I am simply indifferent.
Same here.
and the same with hope and despair, good and evil, etc.
You do not believe in neutrality? I have no hope of being a great
pianist, but I'm hardly in a state of despair. There are actions which
are neither inherently good nor inherently evil. Choosing steak over
pasta is hardly morally good, but I would be foolish to call it evil.
If I weren't neutral, in the sense of being impartial, about atheism
and theism, I wouldn't be wondering out loud about these things on
alt.atheism, perhaps I would have posted to alt.philosophy or
alt.psychology trying to sell an idea. As it is, I'm simply curious,
like most who read alt.atheism, about peoples ideas concerning what is
bad about atheism and good about theism or vice-versa. Since it is
always good to start from the beginning, I suppose we all post to
alt.atheism instead of alt.deism ( not sure if that group exists ),
because it is always good practice to start from that which something
isn't before knowing what it is, otherwise what usually results is an
incomplete perception of the facts.
I wonder though, if in taking God out
of the picture, the devil has not taken the better of them.
Has Pluto gotten the better of you since you took Jupiter out of the
picture?
Don't know where you got that idea.
It was a parallel to the God/Satan bit in your post. Jupiter was the
greatest of the Roman pantheon, and Pluto was the god of the underworld.
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: Lack of belief in atheism |
07 Jun 2006 10:21:49 PM |
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ernobe wrote:
If I weren't neutral, in the sense of being impartial, about atheism
and theism, I wouldn't be wondering out loud about these things on
alt.atheism, perhaps I would have posted to alt.philosophy or
alt.psychology trying to sell an idea. As it is, I'm simply curious,
like most who read alt.atheism, about peoples ideas concerning what is
bad about atheism and good about theism or vice-versa. Since it is
always good to start from the beginning, I suppose we all post to
alt.atheism instead of alt.deism ( not sure if that group exists ),
because it is always good practice to start from that which something
isn't before knowing what it is, otherwise what usually results is an
incomplete perception of the facts.
1. There is no evidence for gods.
2. There are only claims about gods.
3. Contradictions created by these claims
disprove gods.
4. Education about 4 is all you need.
God has a good will, incapable of evil.
God has free will.
If God gave man a god-like free will
and a god-like good nature that never
does moral evil, no moral evil could exist.
If god could do this and does not, he is evil.
(Contradiction between claims here).
Moral evil exists.
Thus, god cannot exist.
See? Its easy!
Atheism is as easy as rolling off a log.
Now, about the bad parts of theism.
---------------------------------------------
***********************************************************
The Failure of Christianity in America
W. C . Barwell 3-8-05
***********************************************************
Since Nixon, this nation has rapidly moved quite far to the
right, taken there mainly by christian right wingers who have
fully supported the GOP as it has moved specifically to
gain support of christian right wingers. This started when
Nixon played the racist Southern Strategy card building on
civil rights era resentments by far right Southerners.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/2/23/172743.shtml
Conservative Southerners were very religious.
The turn towards Christian conservatives accelerated
under Reagan, who skillfully played the religious card and the
religious right joined the GOP-Reagan revolution that still
is a major influence. That has given the GOP control of Congress
for years, especially thanks to Newt Gingrich and Trent Lott
who gained control of the Congress, House and Senate in 1995
with full support of the politicized religious right.
So we now have had a essentially a christian-GOP government
for 30 years. We had large right wing Christian movements
who were formed expressedly for political reasons to move
America right and to empower America conservative religionists,
and they have been largely successful.
RICHARD M. NIXON - GERALD FORD.
Christian denominations largely supported incompetent
and corrupt Vietnamese politicians. And a senseless war
in Vietnam that accomplished nothing, run by incompetents.
Nixon instigated awful and murderous policies as the CIA
run program Phoenix program of assassinations and murder.
Supported the secret bombings in Cambodia that killed
an estimated 600,000 innocent Cambodians.
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=cambodia
Winked at the invasion of East Timur and parts of New
Guinea by our allies, the Indonesians.
The Indonesians killed 1/3 of the Timurese over several
decades, mass murder, genocide. 168,000 dead.
http://www.yale.edu/gsp/east_timor/unverdict.html
Winked at the Greek far right Junta that overthrew the
Greek government.
Supported the murderous far right Brazilian generals who
overthrew that democratically elected government in Brazil.
Supported the mass murdering Argentinian government and
their terroristic "Dirty War" of torture, mass murder
and disappearances.
Supported the murderous Pinochet of Chile, whom the US
helped overthrow Chile's democratically elected government.
No complaints about Pinochet's tortures and killings are
to be heard from Nixon, Reagan, or later Bush or the GOP
leaders of Senate and House.
http://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/chile/index.html
Not many Christian denominations respected life here.
Or freedom. But supported Nixon heartily despite the
horrors we committed in Vietnam and Cambodia and Chile
and winked at support for others mentioned above.
No major religious denominations nor their leaders
spoke out and drew a line at any of this. Despite Nixon
and GOP support for such things, he easily won re-election.
RONALD REAGAN 1981 - 1989
Ronald Reagan came to power largely because of the
religious right's politicization and support.
Throughout his administration Ronald Reagan supported
Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge as the official government
of note in Cambodia and the Khmer Rouge delegation
as the official UN delegation of Cambodia to the UN.
Aid is funneled to the Khmer Rouge including $81 million
dollars, and food and uniforms funneled through aid
organizations. Reagan winked as China rearmed Pol Pot,
and leaned on nations not to send aid to Cambodia despite
the devastation of nearly 1/3 of Cambodia's population
killed by Pol Pot's genocidal regime.
Early in his administration Reagan lead the GOP in
support for military aid to the genocidal Rios Montt
of Guatemala, who practiced wholesale mass torture,
mass rape mass murder and genocide on the Mayan Indians
of Guatemala.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/daily/march99/guatemala11.htm
Reagan and the GOP supported the mass murdering ex-Somoza
Guards of Nicaragua.
Reagan and the GOP supported Saddam Hussein of Iraq.
Reagan and the GOP supported the murderous Robert
D'Aubisson of El Salvador, a known far right death
squad leader.
The El Salvadoran government was involved in numerous
murders, and massacres, such as the killing of 400
villagers at a small village called El Mezote, most
of them young women and children.
http://www.usip.org/library/tc/doc/reports/el_salvador/tc_es_03151993_chron1.html
Reagan and the GOP supported Noriega of Panama.
Reagan and the GOP supported a number of murdering
far right extremist guerrilla movements in Africa including
the genocidal RENAMO in Mozambique.
The Christian and religious right heavily supported Reagan
and the GOP despite numerous examples of such evils as
listed above. The leaders of the religious right never cared
nor complained, neither did the religious leaders of the
main stream christian denominations make any effort
to stand up and denounce these outrageous policies.
The members of major denominations made no effort to
complain and demand their religious leaders react to
support for genocidal mass murderers.
There was and is no respect for life in organized American
christianity as these wholesale and repeat failures of
America christianity collectively over 20 years shows.
Many churches and denominations whole-heartedly support
Reagan and the GOP despite these horrors, and many
actively worked for Reagan's re-election and support of GOP
candidates, passing out tens of millions of voters' guides
slanted to support of far right GOP candiates and policies.
GEORGE W. BUSH
Bush continued support for the evil dictators above,
including Pinochet, Pol Pot and others. However,
Saddam screwed us and invaded Kuwait, mainly because
Bush screwed up and did not warn him to not do so
as Hussein repeatedly threatened to invade Kuwait
for nearly two months and coolly noted Bush's lack
of much response.
Bush did not act in case of genocide by Yugoslavia's
Milosevic, and Bush and the GOP's loud and obnoxious
foot-dragging here allowed Milosevic to kill
hundreds of thousands with near impunity.
The leaders of the GOP, House and Senate, and religious
leaders of the right and mainstream denominations never
cared about any of this. never made an issue out of it.
In the Desert Storm war, Bush allowed the US air
force to bomb Iraq's water and sewer systems and
dams. A war crime as per Geneva conventions and
other conventions the US signed.
The US placed sanctions on Iraq that made it impossible
to keep their water supplies safe resulting in numerous
deaths that eventually would total over 500,000 dead
Iraqi civilians, mostly children.
Our government coldly calculated that these sanctions would
indeed would cause mass epidemics and mass death, and did
it anyway.
Thomas Nagy, a California college professor used the FOIA
statutes to obtain these documents that were published
in September 2001 in the Progressive Magazine.
http://www.progressive.org/0801issue/nagy0901.html
No Christian leaders of either far right or mainstream
denominations cared, nor brought Bush and the GOP leadership
of House and Senate to task for this genocide of innocents.
The voters' guides pushed in many churches still were demanding
parishioners vote GOP despite these horrors and mass murders.
No leaders of large, powerful and influential denominations
ever stood up and denounced these mass murders. Christians
underneath did not push dilatory and unresponsive denominational
leaders to speak out, act and lead against these mass murders
and war crimes. Nor the support early in Bush's career for
Saddam and Pop Pot and other genocidal monsters.
Clinton:
Under Clinton this Iraq policy continued. Again, Christians
did not care. All many Christians cared about was Clinton's
don't-ask-don't-tell gays in military policy and Clinton's
sex life and Whitewater. $47 million spent investigating
Whitewater while the Christian right roared with naked hate.
Money spent investigation mass murder in Iraq caused by
our purposeful by our sanctions? $0.
Roars of disprovable from Christian America over these mass
murders? None.
No large denominations ever made these war crimes and mass murders
an issue nor took the GOP or president to task over these horrors.
What has 30 years of right winged GOP government and right
winger christianity got us? Mass murder, genocide,
Nothing but callousness, disregard for human life,
support for dictators, a near total moral failure of
religion, Christianity, GOP and the American right.
Not once did the large mass of religious christian
Americans, either leadership or rank and file ever
find any of these evils unacceptable or punish any
who supported any of this. Not the christian right
nor leaders of major US religious denominations.
Most GOP House and Senate members were people who
did these things claimed to be christians. Not one
cares, not many christian denominations care that
they did not care or act. Many of those who presided
over these massive moral failures still hold office
in the US Congress and Senate, leaders and ran and file.
Almost all claim to be christians.
They retain full support of far right religious
leaders, pundits and rank and file christian
followers.
30 years of failure. 30 years of support for
far right genocidal bastards, mass murderers,
and evil by the Leaders of Religious right
and large denominations.
Christians posture as moral, American christians have
a very bad track records when it comes to morality, they
will happily support any genocidal monster as long as he's
a right winger, and right winger politicians support
that monster no matter how murderous or genocidal he
and his evil regime is.
The religious right and right winged denominations
spearheaded political support for the GOP, and conservative
politicians who created these evil policies. Main stream
denominations and the thousands of conservative non-denominational
churches representing tens of milliions of Christians made
no effort over 35 years to oppose the GOP or their far right
supporters, these outrageous policies were never made an issue
by any large denomination that could have made a difference.
Christianity thus can only be called a moral failure,
35 years of failure now with no sign that there is any
change on the horizon.
(End)
--
"Its the hit dog what yelps."
- Mark Twain
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "ernobe" |
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| Title: Re: Lack of belief in atheism |
08 Jun 2006 04:05:27 AM |
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wbarwell wrote:
1. There is no evidence for gods.
We're discussing atheism in alt.atheism, and since it is derived from
theism theism is also discussed. Theism is a belief in the presence
of gods, and whether there is evidence for their existence or not is
for another newsgroup to discuss, ( probably a metaphysics group ),
because the presence of a god can be well imagined, or it can be a
powerful idea, in any case it can be something one strongly believes
in, independently of anyone elses political agendas.
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| User: "Hollis Brown" |
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| Title: Re: Lack of belief in atheism |
09 Jun 2006 09:08:22 AM |
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Yea, verily, people wailed throughout the land. "Ernobe is back! The
Eternal Sophomore has returned to us! Gather your word-salad bowls,
and prepare to feast!" And so it came to pass, though it was not
particularly good.
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: Lack of belief in atheism |
08 Jun 2006 05:51:40 AM |
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ernobe wrote:
wbarwell wrote:
1. There is no evidence for gods.
We're discussing atheism in alt.atheism, and since it is derived from
theism theism is also discussed. Theism is a belief in the presence
of gods, and whether there is evidence for their existence or not is
for another newsgroup to discuss, ( probably a metaphysics group ),
because the presence of a god can be well imagined, or it can be a
powerful idea, in any case it can be something one strongly believes
in, independently of anyone elses political agendas.
We are talking about evidence.
All the excellent textbooks of major University philosophy
departments and divinity schools and major seminaries
lack evidence for god.
This is a key concept in Atheism. Evidence does not exist.
All we have are claims and assertions.
I can imagine the Easter Bunny (and often do).
That does not mean the Easter Bunny exists
or that there is evidence for the Easter Bunny.
Luckily, us Easter Bunnyists don't need that as
we have faith.
--
"Its the hit dog what yelps."
- Mark Twain
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "JessHC" |
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| Title: Re: Lack of belief in atheism |
08 Jun 2006 08:26:59 AM |
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ernobe wrote:
wbarwell wrote:
1. There is no evidence for gods.
We're discussing atheism in alt.atheism, and since it is derived from
theism theism is also discussed.
Who told you atheism is derived from theism? Atheism is derived from
lack of evidence; there is no objective, verifiable evidence of
deities, therefore the concept of deities is rejected as irrational.
Theism is a belief in the presence
of gods, and whether there is evidence for their existence or not is
for another newsgroup to discuss, ( probably a metaphysics group ),
Then maybe that's where you should go.
because the presence of a god can be well imagined, or it can be a
powerful idea, in any case it can be something one strongly believes
in, independently of anyone elses political agendas.
Surprisingly, atheists lack belief in all deities, so unless you have
objective, verifiable evidence of deities, you have our permission to
take your agenda elsewhere.
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| User: "George Dance" |
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| Title: Re: Lack of belief in atheism |
09 Jun 2006 05:07:41 PM |
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ernobe wrote:
wbarwell wrote:
1. There is no evidence for gods.
We're discussing atheism in alt.atheism, and since it is derived from
theism theism is also discussed. Theism is a belief in the presence
of gods, and whether there is evidence for their existence or not is
for another newsgroup to discuss, ( probably a metaphysics group ),
because the presence of a god can be well imagined, or it can be a
powerful idea, in any case it can be something one strongly believes
in, independently of anyone elses political agendas.
Not really. If you claim a 'belief in the presence of gods,' then
you're claiming that it's true that there are gods. In order to
discuss your belief, we can't avoid discussing both the reasons for
thinking it's true (if any), and the reasons for thinking it's false
(if any),
I can imagine a superstrong pink elephant that smites down my enemies -
and the idea exerts a powerful attraction on me - but I can't believe
in it just because of that. Obviously there are minimum conditions
necessary to entertain a belief - which you think have been met for at
least one god, while atheists do not - and it's quite in order to
discuss those conditions, and why you think one thing while they think
another.
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| User: "Wayne Delia" |
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| Title: Re: Lack of belief in atheism |
09 Jun 2006 08:32:58 AM |
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ernobe wrote:
Earlobe! You stupid *****. Remember me? I kicked your ***** several years
ago. Has it stopped bleeding?
wbarwell wrote:
1. There is no evidence for gods.
We're discussing atheism in alt.atheism, and since it is derived from
theism theism is also discussed.
But Barwell is discussing the lack of evidence for gods, a point which
you haven't remotely addressed.
Theism is a belief in the presence
of gods, and whether there is evidence for their existence or not is
for another newsgroup to discuss, ( probably a metaphysics group ),
because the presence of a god can be well imagined, or it can be a
powerful idea, in any case it can be something one strongly believes
in, independently of anyone elses political agendas.
You're still just as stupid as you always were - even more so, if that's
even possible.
WMD
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| User: "ernobe" |
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| Title: Re: Lack of belief in atheism |
11 Jun 2006 01:04:37 PM |
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Wayne Delia wrote:
But Barwell is discussing the lack of evidence for gods, a point which
you haven't remotely addressed.
If you're discussing a lack you're discussing a need, a point which you
haven't remotely addressed.
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| User: "John Jarndyce" |
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| Title: Re: Lack of belief in atheism |
11 Jun 2006 02:12:21 PM |
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"ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1150049077.536056.307770@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Wayne Delia wrote:
But Barwell is discussing the lack of evidence for gods, a point which
you haven't remotely addressed.
If you're discussing a lack you're discussing a need
By your line of reasoning you need a case of syphilis!
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: Lack of belief in atheism |
11 Jun 2006 08:14:39 PM |
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On 11 Jun 2006 11:04:37 -0700, "ernobe" <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
Wayne Delia wrote:
But Barwell is discussing the lack of evidence for gods, a point which
you haven't remotely addressed.
If you're discussing a lack you're discussing a need, a point which you
haven't remotely addressed.
I lack a red-hot poker up my arse, but I certainly have no need of
one. Nor do I have any need for your god or your religion.
Your "argument" makes no sense.
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