Religions > Atheism > Letter to the Editor: Tomb story doesn't bring doubt on Bible
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jason Spaceman" |
| Date: |
15 Mar 2007 09:21:18 PM |
| Object: |
Letter to the Editor: Tomb story doesn't bring doubt on Bible |
This letter appeared in my local newspaper:
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Mar 15, 2007
To the editor:
Recently I saw the TV documentary, The Lost Tomb of Jesus, based on an
archeological discovery in 1980.
It contained certain straw dummy arguments that Christians are tired of
hearing in order to convince viewers of the credibility of this
archeological find; for example, the notion that Christianity is somehow
opposed to the evidence (ie. archeological or scientific) for its core
beliefs (ie. Christ's resurrection).
Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, Simon Greenleaf, the
famous Royall Professor of Law at Harvard University, concluded on the
basis of his examination of the apostles' testimony to the resurrection of
Christ that it was one of the best-supported events in history according to
the laws of legal evidence administered in courts of justice.
Spiritual truths cannot be proved or disproved by archeology but this
discipline is the greatest defender of the accuracy of the Bible, such that
Nelson Glueck, eminent archeologist and expert on Palestinian archeology
wrote, "It may be stated categorically that no archeological discovery has
ever controverted a biblical reference.
Moreover, the Christian faith, as history shows, has always been rooted in
reality. It developed and spread out of the historical evidence for
Christ's death and resurrection, although a saving relationship involving
personal trust in Jesus as Lord and Savior goes way beyond the evidence.
All but one of Jesus's 12 disciples, who were eyewitnesses of His death and
resurrection, died as martyrs for such beliefs. People do no die for a lie.
Rayburne F. Winsor
Oshawa
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Read it at
http://www.durhamregion.com/dr/voices/letter/story/3911511p-4523091c.html
J. Spaceman
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| User: "Smiler" |
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| Title: Re: Letter to the Editor: Tomb story doesn't bring doubt on Bible |
15 Mar 2007 10:07:11 PM |
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"Jason Spaceman" <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote in message
news:etcuuu$vfg$1@news.datemas.de...
This letter appeared in my local newspaper:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mar 15, 2007
To the editor:
Recently I saw the TV documentary, The Lost Tomb of Jesus, based on an
archeological discovery in 1980.
<Snip of boring bit>
People should not die for a lie.
Corrected
Smiler,
The godless one
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| User: "Greywolf" |
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| Title: Re: Letter to the Editor: Tomb story doesn't bring doubt on Bible |
15 Mar 2007 10:52:53 PM |
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"Jason Spaceman" <notreally@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote in message
news:etcuuu$vfg$1@news.datemas.de...
This letter appeared in my local newspaper:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mar 15, 2007
To the editor:
Recently I saw the TV documentary, The Lost Tomb of Jesus, based on an
archeological discovery in 1980.
It contained certain straw dummy arguments that Christians are tired of
hearing in order to convince viewers of the credibility of this
archeological find; for example, the notion that Christianity is somehow
opposed to the evidence (ie. archeological or scientific) for its core
beliefs (ie. Christ's resurrection).
This 'discovery' only shows that people on both sides of the 'fence' are
much too eager at times to play fast and loose with the truth in order to
make money.
Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, Simon Greenleaf, the
famous Royall Professor of Law at Harvard University, concluded on the
basis of his examination of the apostles' testimony to the resurrection of
Christ that it was one of the best-supported events in history according
to
the laws of legal evidence administered in courts of justice.
<chuckle, snort> The testimony of 'Apostles' who are said to have been
endowed with the supernatural ability to raise the dead (Mt. !0:8); who
'witnessed' Jesus raise the dead, yet ran like scared little bunny-rabbits
at the arrest of Jesus and thought the reports of the women claiming that
they had seen the 'risen' Jesus and that he even *spoke* to them, absurd and
the women 'nuts'? Some compelling, 'best supported' event in history, eh?!
And remember now, these 'apostles' are said to have been endowed with the
power to raise the dead by none other than Jesus himself! Why in the
*world*, then, would they doubt the stories surrounding a 'risen Christ' and
consider it to be so much hooey? You would think that they wouldn't doubt
the veracity of these storied for a nanosecond. Not for a nanosecond. Whose
fooling who, here?
Spiritual truths cannot be proved or disproved by archeology but this
discipline is the greatest defender of the accuracy of the Bible,
Matthew 27:50-53 is the 'accurate' reporting of a 'real', historical event?
Hah!! Make that a *double* 'Hah!!*!
such that
Nelson Glueck, eminent archeologist and expert on Palestinian archeology
wrote, "It may be stated categorically that no archeological discovery has
ever controverted a biblical reference.
Really? Where's that archeological evidence that Nebuchadnezzer captured the
island-city of Tyre as 'prophecied' by the 'prophet' Ezekiel in chapter 26
(note especially verse 5)? Oh that's right. There isn't any. And that's
because Nebuchadnezzer failed to capture the island-city -- despite trying
to do so for some thirteen years!
Moreover, the Christian faith, as history shows, has always been rooted in
reality.
How's that? Jesus is alleged to have been an extemely unique 'hybrid' of
creation. He is said to have been both man and deity inextricably bound
together to form a 'Man-God'. The 'Man' part of this unique hybrid is said
to have 'died'. It is now a matter of speculation as to whether or not the
'God' part of him 'died' as well. If it didn't, then Jesus, in fact, did not
really 'die'. Only a *part* of him did. That's sort of akin to losing a
kidney to disease while 'living' perfectly fine with it's absence and
functioning perfectly well with the remaining one. *That* means mankind's
'sins' were never 'forgiven' because 'Jesus' the 'Man-God' never really
succumb to death *completely*, did he? Or did he?
Now don't go and get bent out of shape and go into a stupor over my
'blasphemy'. I'm not the one who made the outrageous, preposterous claims
the 'Church' puts forth as the 'truth'. I'm just pointing out that the
claims don't hold up under close scrutiny, is all. Your 'rage' should be
directed at the people who have 'snookered' you for selfish self-gain.
You've been fed one lie after another but don't want to face the truth of
that. Okay. Go ahead and 'believe' regardless. That's your perogative. Just
don't spew hate and intolerance at those who reject such nonsensical
beliefs. We atheists are perfectly within our 'right' to discount claims
that border on the 'crazed'. They are, with all due respect, outrageously
ridiculous. Sorry. (And I mean that. One can understand the 'comfort' the
Christian faith gives its adherents. One can understand that 'believers'
believe they are embracing a 'noble' set of beliefs. The important point is
that the 'believer' act nobly instead of like a rabid member of the KKK.)
It developed and spread out of the historical evidence for
Christ's death and resurrection,
It would have helped if a reputable ancient historian would have 'reported'
the 'historical' events described in Mt. 27:50-53, for example. The 'belief'
that Jesus arose from the dead is a far cry from solid 'evidence' that he
did. And why appear to only his followers? Why not to an assembly of the
Sanhedrin to 'prove' his return from the dead? Why not to Pontius Pilate
while inspecting the troops? Is it the case that Jesus was just too *dead*
to do so?
although a saving relationship involving
personal trust in Jesus as Lord and Savior goes way beyond the evidence.
What 'evidence' was that again?
All but one of Jesus's 12 disciples, who were eyewitnesses of His death
and
resurrection, died as martyrs for such beliefs.
There's no solid proof of that. But that doesn't matter. People die for
their 'beliefs' all the time. And, ironically enough, *I* am presently
staring death in the face for my *lack* of belief! What say ye to *that*!
Note: I am perfectly aware that I am 'responding' to a 'letter to the
editor' and not an 'opponent' per se. I'm just 'venting'.
People do no die for a lie.
It's done far more often than you think. Think David Koresh and his 'Branch
Davidian' followers as just *one* instance of this.
Greywolf
Rayburne F. Winsor
Oshawa
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Read it at
http://www.durhamregion.com/dr/voices/letter/story/3911511p-4523091c.html
J. Spaceman
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Letter to the Editor: Tomb story doesn't bring doubt on Bible |
16 Mar 2007 04:26:20 AM |
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Jason Spaceman <notrea...@jspaceman.homelinux.org> wrote:
Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact, Simon
Greenleaf, the famous Royall Professor of Law at Harvard
University, concluded on the basis of his examination of
the apostles' testimony to the resurrection of Christ
that it was one of the best-supported events in history
according to the laws of legal evidence administered in
courts of justice.
His book on the subject was written in 1846, and without
reading it we could only conclude that you are destroying
the context.
At no time in the United States would such a text be
considered legal "Evidence." Seriously, think about what
you're claiming here.
We're not dealing with original "documents" here. We're
not dealing with copies of originals. We're talking about
copies of translations which were copies of copies when
NOBODY can even state with certainty what an original
looked like.
Apply those exact circumstances to a bill of sale, and
try to get it to hold up in court.
You couldn't get a real court to award you posession of
a cow with *That* kind of "Evidence."
...not even in 1846.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Letter to the Editor: Tomb story doesn't bring doubt on Bible |
15 Mar 2007 09:25:38 PM |
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On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 23:21:18 -0400, Jason Spaceman wrote:
It contained certain straw dummy arguments
Straw dummy?
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace
alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing
it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."
- H. L. Mencken
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Letter to the Editor: Tomb story doesn't bring doubt on Bible |
19 Mar 2007 08:55:01 AM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.03.16.02.25.37.569934@com.mkbilbo...
On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 23:21:18 -0400, Jason Spaceman wrote:
It contained certain straw dummy arguments
Straw dummy?
Strawman was obviously too difficult for him to type ;)
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: Letter to the Editor: Tomb story doesn't bring doubt on Bible |
19 Mar 2007 10:26:51 PM |
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On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 09:55:01 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.03.16.02.25.37.569934@com.mkbilbo...
On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 23:21:18 -0400, Jason Spaceman wrote:
It contained certain straw dummy arguments
Straw dummy?
Strawman was obviously too difficult for him to type ;)
Think about it, Robyn. What would you call a particularly dumb straw
man argument?
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Letter to the Editor: Tomb story doesn't bring doubt on Bible |
20 Mar 2007 01:54:59 PM |
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"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:g2luv2padu3ghb795amkpi7gv8jrld1829@4ax.com...
On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 09:55:01 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.03.16.02.25.37.569934@com.mkbilbo...
On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 23:21:18 -0400, Jason Spaceman wrote:
It contained certain straw dummy arguments
Straw dummy?
Strawman was obviously too difficult for him to type ;)
Think about it, Robyn. What would you call a particularly dumb straw
man argument?
Straw moron! :)
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Letter to the Editor: Tomb story doesn't bring doubt on Bible |
20 Mar 2007 02:05:45 PM |
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On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 15:54:59 -0400, Robibnikoff wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:g2luv2padu3ghb795amkpi7gv8jrld1829@4ax.com...
On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 09:55:01 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.03.16.02.25.37.569934@com.mkbilbo...
On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 23:21:18 -0400, Jason Spaceman wrote:
It contained certain straw dummy arguments
Straw dummy?
Strawman was obviously too difficult for him to type ;)
Think about it, Robyn. What would you call a particularly dumb straw
man argument?
Straw moron! :)
"If I only had a brain..."
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace
alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing
it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."
- H. L. Mencken
.
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Letter to the Editor: Tomb story doesn't bring doubt on Bible |
20 Mar 2007 03:32:32 PM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.03.20.19.05.44.712412@com.mkbilbo...
On Tue, 20 Mar 2007 15:54:59 -0400, Robibnikoff wrote:
"Al Klein" <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote in message
news:g2luv2padu3ghb795amkpi7gv8jrld1829@4ax.com...
On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 09:55:01 -0400, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.03.16.02.25.37.569934@com.mkbilbo...
On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 23:21:18 -0400, Jason Spaceman wrote:
It contained certain straw dummy arguments
Straw dummy?
Strawman was obviously too difficult for him to type ;)
Think about it, Robyn. What would you call a particularly dumb straw
man argument?
Straw moron! :)
"If I only had a brain..."
Stumper wouldn't be such a nuthin'
His head all full of stuffin'
His heart all full of pain......
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Letter to the Editor: Tomb story doesn't bring doubt on Bible |
19 Mar 2007 06:40:54 PM |
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On Mon, 19 Mar 2007 10:55:01 -0400, Robibnikoff wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.03.16.02.25.37.569934@com.mkbilbo...
On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 23:21:18 -0400, Jason Spaceman wrote:
It contained certain straw dummy arguments
Straw dummy?
Strawman was obviously too difficult for him to type ;)
Straw bunnies!
Which reminds me...
In the online computer security world, there's a class of twits known as
"script kiddies." They're terribly bright but fashion themselves as
Hakzors! Thing is, they couldn't program a computer to save their lives.
What they do is download ready made scripts and muck with them (quite
often screwing them up mind you) then Hakkzor! some machine or other. They
are, in short, just brats. Most of what goes on out in the Internet is
actually just stupid, immature little brats who couldn't do anything
productive with a computer if you beat them with one.
But there are a lot of self-appointed "security experts" out there that
have to make the threat look much, much larger than it is or else they'd
have to go back to, "You want fries with that?" These idiots are often not
much brighter than the script kiddies. This can often result in much mirth
among the people who actually know what they're talking about.
One of my all time favorites was a guy who was holding forth to the press
about...
"Script bunnies."
I kid you not...
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace
alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing
it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."
- H. L. Mencken
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