Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Ten Worst Britons



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Sound of Trumpet"
Date: 28 Mar 2006 12:57:43 PM
Object: Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Ten Worst Britons
Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Worst Britons
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1550503/posts
Catholic saint named among top 10 'worst Britons' by BBC magazine
Posted on December 30, 2005
A Catholic saint and martyr has been nominated as one of the nastiest
villains in British history.
St. Thomas Becket, a 12th-century archbishop of Canterbury, was among
10 "worst Britons" of the last millennium, selected by a group of
British historians. The saint, whose feast is celebrated Dec. 29, was
chosen by John Hudson, a professor at the University of St. Andrews,
Scotland, because he divided England in a way that was "unnecessary and
self-indulgent."
"He was a founder of gesture politics with the most acute of eyes for
what would now be called the photo opportunity," said Hudson, a
specialist in early medieval English and French history.
"He was also greedy," he said in BBC History magazine Dec. 27. "Those
who share my prejudice against Becket may consider his assassination in
Canterbury Cathedral Dec. 29, 1170, a fittingly grisly end."
BBC History magazine compiled the list after asking 10 historians to
name their pick for "worst Briton."
St. Thomas was hacked to death by four knights who allegedly heard King
Henry II of England ask, "Who will rid me of this turbulent priest?"
His death ended a protracted dispute with the monarchy over the limits
of civil law in the life of the church. The king, for example, wanted
to stop bishops from leaving England without his permission, to stop
them from appealing to Rome without his consent and to punish criminal
clerics under the civil law even if they had been dealt with by church
courts. St. Thomas spent six years in exile but was murdered within a
month of returning to England. He was canonized two years later.
Father Nicholas Schofield, the archivist of the Archdiocese of
Westminster and a history graduate from Oxford University, said he was
surprised that St. Thomas was included on the list.
"It's always misrepresentative to see history simply in terms of
goodies and baddies," he told Catholic News Service Dec. 29. "Like all
of us, Thomas Becket had his weaknesses. He could be proud and
bad-tempered and, especially in his early years, he lived a life of
great luxury.
"But on becoming archbishop of Canterbury he changed his way of life,
showed exemplary piety and gave his life for the defense and liberty of
the church. Because of this he became the patron of English clergy,"
the priest said. "In an age of such bloodshed and low esteem for human
life, I would have thought there were many more convincing candidates
for Britain's worst 12th-century villain."
David Musgrove, editor of the magazine, told BBC News Dec. 27 that
deciding on the worst Britons was "not an easy choice."
"We left the criteria up to the 10 historians we spoke to, and it's
their definitions of wickedness that give us such a diverse selection
of figures on our list of evilness," he said.
The list of villains, which is made up of one from each century,
included another Catholic archbishop of Canterbury, Archbishop Thomas
Arundel, who in the 15th century persecuted Catholic heretics.
It also included Titus Oates, a former Anglican minister who made up a
story about a Jesuit-led plot to kill King Charles II, which, from 1678
to 1680, led to the deaths of 26 innocent Catholics.
Oates was nominated by John Adamson, a fellow of Peterhouse College,
Cambridge University, because he "was in a league of his own, in the
depths of his vileness and the scale of his evil."
The list also included Richard Rich, an ambitious lawyer who in the
16th century gave evidence against St. Thomas More and St. John Fisher,
which led to their convictions and executions for treason.
It includes Jack the Ripper, the serial killer who preyed on
prostitutes in London; King John, who is remembered from the 13th
century as " clearly one of the worst kings in English history"; and
the Duke of Cumberland, the younger brother of King George II who
became known as "the Butcher" after putting down the Catholic Jacobite
rebellion of in the 18th century with the massacre at Culloden Moor,
Scotland.
Oswald Mosley was named the worst Briton of the 20th century. He was
the founder of the British Union of Fascists. Eadric Streona, who
betrayed King Aethelred to the Danes, was named as the worst Briton of
the 11th century.
The worst of the 14th century was named as Hugh Despenser, who grew
rich by grabbing land in South Wales and ruthlessly slaughtering his
enemies.
.

User: "allan connochie"

Title: Re: Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Ten Worst Britons 01 Apr 2006 01:44:34 AM
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@mail2world.com> wrote in message
news:1143572263.006908.33310@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...

Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Worst Britons



http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1550503/posts
It includes Jack the Ripper, the serial killer who preyed on
prostitutes in London; King John, who is remembered from the 13th
century as " clearly one of the worst kings in English history"; and
the Duke of Cumberland, the younger brother of King George II who
became known as "the Butcher" after putting down the Catholic Jacobite
rebellion of in the 18th century with the massacre at Culloden Moor,
Scotland.

Cumberland was an unsavoury character right enough and of course the
Pretenders themselves were Roman Catholics. However it was not really a
Catholic Jacobite rebellion. There simply weren't enough Catholics in
Scotland to even make that a possibility. Outside of various MacDonalds (ie
Clanranald, Glengarry and Keppoch) there were only three clans of any
significance who could be described as Catholic. Of those the MacNeils of
Barra and Chisholms of Strathglass were both divided as to which side they
supported in the 45. Only the Gordons were out and out Jacobites. So what we
have is four clans being both Catholic and Jacobite. The bulk of the
Jacobites were Protestants especially Episcopalians.
Allan
.

User: "a.spencer3"

Title: Re: Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Ten Worst Britons 29 Mar 2006 02:18:10 AM
"Sound of Trumpet" <soundoftrumpet@mail2world.com> wrote in message
news:1143572263.006908.33310@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...

The worst of the 14th century was named as Hugh Despenser, who grew

rich by grabbing land in South Wales and ruthlessly slaughtering his
enemies.

Including Caerphilly Castle! Yeh - that's my great-something grandad!
We've made it at last!
(See, Hippo, knew we'd beat your lot down the road at something!).
Surreyman
.

User: ""

Title: Re: Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Ten Worst Britons 02 Apr 2006 01:30:02 PM
His name should not have been mentioned at all.
Sound of Trumpet wrote:

Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Worst Britons



http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1550503/posts


Catholic saint named among top 10 'worst Britons' by BBC magazine


Posted on December 30, 2005

A Catholic saint and martyr has been nominated as one of the nastiest
villains in British history.
St. Thomas Becket, a 12th-century archbishop of Canterbury, was among
10 "worst Britons" of the last millennium, selected by a group of
British historians. The saint, whose feast is celebrated Dec. 29, was
chosen by John Hudson, a professor at the University of St. Andrews,
Scotland, because he divided England in a way that was "unnecessary and
self-indulgent."
"He was a founder of gesture politics with the most acute of eyes for
what would now be called the photo opportunity," said Hudson, a
specialist in early medieval English and French history.
"He was also greedy," he said in BBC History magazine Dec. 27. "Those
who share my prejudice against Becket may consider his assassination in
Canterbury Cathedral Dec. 29, 1170, a fittingly grisly end."
BBC History magazine compiled the list after asking 10 historians to
name their pick for "worst Briton."
St. Thomas was hacked to death by four knights who allegedly heard King
Henry II of England ask, "Who will rid me of this turbulent priest?"
His death ended a protracted dispute with the monarchy over the limits
of civil law in the life of the church. The king, for example, wanted
to stop bishops from leaving England without his permission, to stop
them from appealing to Rome without his consent and to punish criminal
clerics under the civil law even if they had been dealt with by church
courts. St. Thomas spent six years in exile but was murdered within a
month of returning to England. He was canonized two years later.
Father Nicholas Schofield, the archivist of the Archdiocese of
Westminster and a history graduate from Oxford University, said he was
surprised that St. Thomas was included on the list.
"It's always misrepresentative to see history simply in terms of
goodies and baddies," he told Catholic News Service Dec. 29. "Like all
of us, Thomas Becket had his weaknesses. He could be proud and
bad-tempered and, especially in his early years, he lived a life of
great luxury.
"But on becoming archbishop of Canterbury he changed his way of life,
showed exemplary piety and gave his life for the defense and liberty of
the church. Because of this he became the patron of English clergy,"
the priest said. "In an age of such bloodshed and low esteem for human
life, I would have thought there were many more convincing candidates
for Britain's worst 12th-century villain."
David Musgrove, editor of the magazine, told BBC News Dec. 27 that
deciding on the worst Britons was "not an easy choice."
"We left the criteria up to the 10 historians we spoke to, and it's
their definitions of wickedness that give us such a diverse selection
of figures on our list of evilness," he said.
The list of villains, which is made up of one from each century,
included another Catholic archbishop of Canterbury, Archbishop Thomas
Arundel, who in the 15th century persecuted Catholic heretics.
It also included Titus Oates, a former Anglican minister who made up a
story about a Jesuit-led plot to kill King Charles II, which, from 1678
to 1680, led to the deaths of 26 innocent Catholics.
Oates was nominated by John Adamson, a fellow of Peterhouse College,
Cambridge University, because he "was in a league of his own, in the
depths of his vileness and the scale of his evil."
The list also included Richard Rich, an ambitious lawyer who in the
16th century gave evidence against St. Thomas More and St. John Fisher,
which led to their convictions and executions for treason.
It includes Jack the Ripper, the serial killer who preyed on
prostitutes in London; King John, who is remembered from the 13th
century as " clearly one of the worst kings in English history"; and
the Duke of Cumberland, the younger brother of King George II who
became known as "the Butcher" after putting down the Catholic Jacobite
rebellion of in the 18th century with the massacre at Culloden Moor,
Scotland.
Oswald Mosley was named the worst Briton of the 20th century. He was
the founder of the British Union of Fascists. Eadric Streona, who
betrayed King Aethelred to the Danes, was named as the worst Briton of
the 11th century.
The worst of the 14th century was named as Hugh Despenser, who grew
rich by grabbing land in South Wales and ruthlessly slaughtering his
enemies.

.
User: "Singanas@Texasgulfcoast"

Title: Re: Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Ten Worst Britons 03 Apr 2006 04:28:54 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Evidently you have not read what is posted about
Becket's dark side. The man was practically a
werewolf.
Cheers, David H
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.


User: "John Cartmell"

Title: Re: Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Ten Worst Britons 28 Mar 2006 01:07:55 PM
In article <1143572263.006908.33310@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrumpet@mail2world.com> wrote:

Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Worst Britons

No they didn't.
--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

.
User: "Fred"

Title: Re: Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Ten Worst Britons 29 Mar 2006 04:28:05 AM
"John Cartmell" <john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4e0ed323e8john@cartmell.demon.co.uk...

In article <1143572263.006908.33310@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrumpet@mail2world.com> wrote:

Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Worst Britons


No they didn't.

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

Have they named Darcus Howe as one of the top ten great britons?
.
User: "Renia"

Title: Re: Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Ten Worst Britons 29 Mar 2006 05:37:23 AM
Fred wrote:

"John Cartmell" <john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4e0ed323e8john@cartmell.demon.co.uk...

In article <1143572263.006908.33310@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrumpet@mail2world.com> wrote:

Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Worst Britons


No they didn't.

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing



Have they named Darcus Howe as one of the top ten great britons?

Who is Darcus Howe?
.
User: "a.spencer3"

Title: Re: Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Ten Worst Britons 29 Mar 2006 06:12:48 AM
"Renia" <renia@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote in message
news:e0drhe$9vv$2@usenet.otenet.gr...

Fred wrote:

"John Cartmell" <john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4e0ed323e8john@cartmell.demon.co.uk...

In article <1143572263.006908.33310@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrumpet@mail2world.com> wrote:

Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Worst Britons


No they didn't.

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing



Have they named Darcus Howe as one of the top ten great britons?


Who is Darcus Howe?

Trinidadian on Brit TV around 15/20 years ago. Used to be deliberately
controversial. Insignificant in this context.
Surreyman
.

User: "John Cartmell"

Title: Re: Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Ten Worst Britons 29 Mar 2006 07:14:33 AM
In article <e0drhe$9vv$2@usenet.otenet.gr>,
Renia <renia@DELETEotenet.gr> wrote:

Fred wrote:

"John Cartmell" <john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4e0ed323e8john@cartmell.demon.co.uk...

In article <1143572263.006908.33310@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrumpet@mail2world.com> wrote:

Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Worst Britons


No they didn't.

Have they named Darcus Howe as one of the top ten great britons?

Who is Darcus Howe?

Professional stirrer. Great for forcing the alternative view into your
thinking but not the sort of person that comes to mind as a Great Briton. I
think we've had the 'Great' Briton discussion and, to my mind, Charles Darwin
still beats most, but then I also have 'local heroes' in John Dalton and James
Prescott Joule - not to mention a cousin in James Hargreaves - and they all
come before Darcus!
--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

.


User: "John Cartmell"

Title: Re: Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Ten Worst Britons 29 Mar 2006 05:53:43 AM
In article <UKGdnUEVg6-s_LfZRVnyhA@bt.com>,
Fred <Fred@Frednet.com> wrote:

"John Cartmell" <john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4e0ed323e8john@cartmell.demon.co.uk...

In article <1143572263.006908.33310@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrumpet@mail2world.com> wrote:

Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Worst Britons

No they didn't.

Have they named Darcus Howe as one of the top ten great britons?

Who is "they" and when are you going to get your software fixed?
--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

.
User: "Vaughan Sanders"

Title: Re: Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Ten Worst Britons 31 Mar 2006 08:12:50 AM
"John Cartmell" <john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4e0f2f3950john@cartmell.demon.co.uk...

In article <UKGdnUEVg6-s_LfZRVnyhA@bt.com>,
Fred <Fred@Frednet.com> wrote:

"John Cartmell" <john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4e0ed323e8john@cartmell.demon.co.uk...

In article <1143572263.006908.33310@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrumpet@mail2world.com> wrote:

Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Worst Britons


No they didn't.


Have they named Darcus Howe as one of the top ten great britons?


Who is "they" and when are you going to get your software fixed?

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

Well John, "Sir" Bill G must top your list of worst honorary Brits :-))
Margaret Beckett would top the poll in the farmers vote.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/17/nfarm17.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/03/17/ixhome.html
"If Mrs Beckett had principles she would resign over this. God help us if we
get bird flu with her in charge."
Another one of your incompetent labour lunatics who shouldn't be allowed to
make the tea in UK PLC.
Mind you Gordy Jock the pension thief would run her close in the farmers
poll, he has already taxed them on their non existent EU subsidies.
You couldn't make it up could you :-))
Jamie
.
User: "John Cartmell"

Title: Re: Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Ten Worst Britons 31 Mar 2006 09:03:06 AM
In article <e0jdcv$r0u$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>,
Vaughan Sanders <vjs@jamie-san.demon.co.uk> wrote:

Well John, "Sir" Bill G must top your list of worst honorary Brits :-))

It certainly shows the honours system to be corrupt through and through. If
there was to be an award for development in computers then Sophie Wilson,
Steve Furber, and Richard Russell are still awaiting proper recognition.
I assume Bill G got his for exporting our sterling reserves to his bank
account.
--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

.
User: "John Cartmell"

Title: Re: Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Ten Worst Britons 31 Mar 2006 09:42:44 AM
In article <4e10483b8bjohn@cartmell.demon.co.uk>,
John Cartmell <john@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:

In article <e0jdcv$r0u$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>,
Vaughan Sanders <vjs@jamie-san.demon.co.uk> wrote:

Well John, "Sir" Bill G must top your list of worst honorary Brits :-))

It certainly shows the honours system to be corrupt through and through. If
there was to be an award for development in computers then Sophie Wilson,
Steve Furber, and Richard Russell are still awaiting proper recognition.

And too late for Neil Raine. :-(
--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

.





User: "jcon"

Title: Re: Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Ten Worst Britons 28 Mar 2006 02:30:09 PM
John Cartmell wrote:

In article <1143572263.006908.33310@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrumpet@mail2world.com> wrote:

Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Worst Britons


No they didn't.

Yes they did:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4560716.stm
-jc

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

.
User: "Martin"

Title: Re: Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Ten Worst Britons 28 Mar 2006 03:12:07 PM
"jcon" <cirejcon@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1143577809.257467.101630@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...


John Cartmell wrote:

In article <1143572263.006908.33310@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrumpet@mail2world.com> wrote:

Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Worst Britons


No they didn't.


Yes they did:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4560716.stm

So they did....
I'm not sure he was the best choice from his century, there were plenty of
contenders.
King John I tend to approve of for the next, despite stiff competion, but
Despenser for 1300-1400 pales into insignificance compared with Roger Mortimer
and Queen Isabella IMO.
As for the fifteenth century, Arundel is hardly in the picture when compared
with the likes of Clarence, the Beauforts, John and Henry Holland, the Stanleys,
Richard III, Henry VII... and my personal choice, John Tiptoft "the Buthcher of
England".
Jack the Ripper is a mere lightweight compared with Lord Cardigan, Burke and
Hare or Spring-Heeled Jack...
Laughable nonsense. As for Mosely, sure he was a s**t and a half, but Lord Haw
Haw was worse, never mind certain politicians who are still serving!
Cheers
Martin
.
User: "raven1"

Title: Re: Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Ten Worst Britons 28 Mar 2006 04:49:18 PM
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:12:07 +0100, "Martin"
<martin.reboul@spamfuktiscali.co.uk> wrote:


"jcon" <cirejcon@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1143577809.257467.101630@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...


John Cartmell wrote:

In article <1143572263.006908.33310@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrumpet@mail2world.com> wrote:

Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Worst Britons


No they didn't.


Yes they did:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4560716.stm


So they did....

I'm not sure he was the best choice from his century, there were plenty of
contenders.

King John I tend to approve of for the next, despite stiff competion, but
Despenser for 1300-1400 pales into insignificance compared with Roger Mortimer
and Queen Isabella IMO.

As for the fifteenth century, Arundel is hardly in the picture when compared
with the likes of Clarence, the Beauforts, John and Henry Holland, the Stanleys,
Richard III, Henry VII... and my personal choice, John Tiptoft "the Buthcher of
England".

Jack the Ripper is a mere lightweight compared with Lord Cardigan, Burke and
Hare or Spring-Heeled Jack...

Laughable nonsense. As for Mosely, sure he was a s**t and a half, but Lord Haw
Haw was worse, never mind certain politicians who are still serving!

Margaret Thatcher certainly deserves to be a contender for the past
century. And as for the 17th, Oliver Cromwell takes the honors hands
down as far as I and many others of Irish descent are concerned.
--
"O Sybilli, si ergo
Fortibus es in ero
O Nobili! Themis trux
Sivat sinem? Causen Dux"
.

User: "Christopher A. Lee"

Title: Re: Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Ten Worst Britons 28 Mar 2006 06:13:11 PM
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:12:07 +0100, "Martin"
<martin.reboul@spamfuktiscali.co.uk> wrote:

Laughable nonsense. As for Mosely, sure he was a s**t and a half, but Lord Haw
Haw was worse, never mind certain politicians who are still serving!

Lord Haw-Haw wasn't a Briton - he was Irish.

Cheers
Martin

.
User: "Therion Ware"

Title: Re: Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Ten Worst Britons 28 Mar 2006 11:28:54 PM
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 19:13:11 -0500 in alt.atheism, Christopher A. Lee
(Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net>) said, directing the reply
to alt.atheism

On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:12:07 +0100, "Martin"
<martin.reboul@spamfuktiscali.co.uk> wrote:

Laughable nonsense. As for Mosely, sure he was a s**t and a half, but Lord Haw
Haw was worse, never mind certain politicians who are still serving!


Lord Haw-Haw wasn't a Briton - he was Irish.

Not dual nationality?
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
#442. www.video2cd.co.uk. Your 8mm films on DVD.
Help An Imaginary Being Today. Visit www.saecb.com .
.
User: "Christopher A. Lee"

Title: Re: Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Ten Worst Britons 29 Mar 2006 09:18:56 AM
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 05:28:54 GMT, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:



On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 19:13:11 -0500 in alt.atheism, Christopher A. Lee
(Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net>) said, directing the reply
to alt.atheism



On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:12:07 +0100, "Martin"
<martin.reboul@spamfuktiscali.co.uk> wrote:

Laughable nonsense. As for Mosely, sure he was a s**t and a half, but Lord Haw
Haw was worse, never mind certain politicians who are still serving!


Lord Haw-Haw wasn't a Briton - he was Irish.


Not dual nationality?

If he had been it would have been Irish-American.
They retrospectively changed the treason law to include him, and after
he was executed, they repealed it. Which was dirty pool. I have no
sympaties for him, but if you use the law you should not cheat.
If he had been there would have been no reason to change the treason
law to retrospectively include
.
User: "Therion Ware"

Title: Re: Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Ten Worst Britons 29 Mar 2006 10:26:13 AM
On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:18:56 -0500 in alt.atheism, Christopher A. Lee
(Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net>) said, directing the reply
to alt.atheism

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 05:28:54 GMT, Therion Ware
<autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote:



On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 19:13:11 -0500 in alt.atheism, Christopher A. Lee
(Christopher A. Lee <calee@optonline.net>) said, directing the reply
to alt.atheism



On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 22:12:07 +0100, "Martin"
<martin.reboul@spamfuktiscali.co.uk> wrote:

Laughable nonsense. As for Mosely, sure he was a s**t and a half, but Lord Haw
Haw was worse, never mind certain politicians who are still serving!


Lord Haw-Haw wasn't a Briton - he was Irish.


Not dual nationality?


If he had been it would have been Irish-American.

They retrospectively changed the treason law to include him, and after
he was executed, they repealed it. Which was dirty pool. I have no
sympaties for him, but if you use the law you should not cheat.
If he had been there would have been no reason to change the treason
law to retrospectively include

Ouch. I tend to agree with your assessment. Amongst other things I
thought we were supposed to be fighting WWII to maintain the rule of
law....
I haven't looked the case up, but I thought he was Irish/British and
had the bad sense to produce a British passport when he was captured
by the troops. But I may be confusing him with someone else.
<checks sources>Yep, you're right, Irish/American. Ah, Wiki says
interalia:
However, Attorney General Sir Hartley Shawcross successfully argued
that Joyce's possession of a British passport, even though he had lied
about his nationality in order to get it, entitled him to British
diplomatic protection in Germany and therefore he owed allegiance to
the King. It was on this technicality, confirmed by the Court of
Appeal and the House of Lords, that Joyce was convicted and sentenced
to death.
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
#442. www.video2cd.co.uk. Your 8mm films on DVD.
Help An Imaginary Being Today. Visit www.saecb.com .
.





User: "Martin"

Title: Re: Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Ten Worst Britons 28 Mar 2006 03:12:07 PM
"jcon" <cirejcon@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1143577809.257467.101630@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...


John Cartmell wrote:

In article <1143572263.006908.33310@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrumpet@mail2world.com> wrote:

Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Worst Britons


No they didn't.


Yes they did:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4560716.stm

So they did....
I'm not sure he was the best choice from his century, there were plenty of
contenders.
King John I tend to approve of for the next, despite stiff competion, but
Despenser for 1300-1400 pales into insignificance compared with Roger Mortimer
and Queen Isabella IMO.
As for the fifteenth century, Arundel is hardly in the picture when compared
with the likes of Clarence, the Beauforts, John and Henry Holland, the Stanleys,
Richard III, Henry VII... and my personal choice, John Tiptoft "the Buthcher of
England".
Jack the Ripper is a mere lightweight compared with Lord Cardigan, Burke and
Hare or Spring-Heeled Jack...
Laughable nonsense. As for Mosely, sure he was a s**t and a half, but Lord Haw
Haw was worse, never mind certain politicians who are still serving!
Cheers
Martin
.

User: "John Cartmell"

Title: Re: Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Ten Worst Britons 28 Mar 2006 04:51:35 PM
In article <1143577809.257467.101630@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>,
jcon <cirejcon@yahoo.com> wrote:

John Cartmell wrote:

In article <1143572263.006908.33310@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrumpet@mail2world.com> wrote:

Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Worst Britons

No they didn't.

Yes they did:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4560716.stm

The BBC History Magazine is *not* the same as the BBC - and the choices were
made by individual historians for the magazine.
--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

.

User: "Martin"

Title: Re: Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Ten Worst Britons 28 Mar 2006 03:36:37 PM
jcon wrote:

John Cartmell wrote:

In article <1143572263.006908.33310@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
Sound of Trumpet <soundoftrumpet@mail2world.com> wrote:

Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Worst Britons

No they didn't.


Yes they did:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4560716.stm

Oh no they didn't!
.



User: "Douglas Berry"

Title: Re: Liberal BBC Names Saint Thomas Becket One Of Top Ten Worst Britons 28 Mar 2006 03:21:48 PM
What's so funny about peace, love and "Sound of Trumpet"
<soundoftrumpet@mail2world.com> posting the following on 28 Mar 2006
10:57:43 -0800 iin alt.atheism?

St. Thomas Becket, a 12th-century archbishop of Canterbury, was among
10 "worst Britons" of the last millennium, selected by a group of
British historians.

You just can't stop lying, can you? The BBC didn't name anyone
anything. They asked historiabns for their selections.
And the selection of Thomas Becket is an interesting one.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
.


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