| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
27 Jun 2005 08:22:44 AM |
| Object: |
libertarianism depends on religion |
It seems that libertarians believe that only
humans have "property rights". But isn't that
normally justified using the bible or some other
sacred text? How would an atheist libertarian
justify treating animals and the environment
like trash?
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| User: "Ben Goren" |
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| Title: Re: libertarianism depends on religion |
29 Jun 2005 10:17:00 PM |
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Hellbound Alleee wrote:
I didn't say it was as bad as Nazi Germany. You're the one who
came up with that. I'm afraid I have to call you on Godwin's Law
now. You lose.
Hey, no problem. I was just trying to make the point that we're
still a secular nation...just one with a serious fundamentalist
Christian infestation.
Cheers,
b&
--
BAAWA Knight of Blasphemy
God can never prove that this sentence is true.
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| User: "Hellbound Alleee" |
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| Title: Re: libertarianism depends on religion |
30 Jun 2005 02:12:16 AM |
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"we're still a secular nation"
I thought "secular" meant "without explicit religion". If so, the US
has never been a "secular nation".
I don't know why you're arguing so hard about this. American atheists
are so cute when they try to defend their own personal little
fundamentalist country. The US is not any more secular than I am a
Scientologist.
Hellbound Alleee
.................................................................
Listen to the Hellbound Alleee Show at http://www.hellboundalleee.com
.................................................................
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| User: "Ben Goren" |
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| Title: Re: libertarianism depends on religion |
30 Jun 2005 12:42:48 PM |
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Hellbound Alleee wrote:
"we're still a secular nation"
I thought "secular" meant "without explicit religion". If so,
the US has never been a "secular nation".
Oh, but we /have!/ At least, our government certainly has. The
Declaration of Independence only made passing reference to a Deist
Creator. The Constitution is completely without religion, except
that it permits people the choice of religious oath or secular
affirmation when taking office. And the very first Amendment
explicitely establishes the seperation of religion and government.
One of the earliest treaties ever ratified and signed even made
explicit that the United States is /not/ a Christian nation.
I don't know why you're arguing so hard about this.
Because it's true? Because it's at the heart of our country?
American atheists are so cute when they try to defend their own
personal little fundamentalist country. The US is not any more
secular than I am a Scientologist.
If we're talking about the populace, then there is no secular
nation on Earth. If we're talking about the government, then, yes,
religion is forcing its way in--but it's certainly against the
principles on which the country was founded and against the
principles countless patiots have fought to uphold.
We've lost some recent battles, to be sure, but the fat lady ain't
singin' yet.
Cheers,
b&
--
BAAWA Knight of Blasphemy
God can never prove that this sentence is true.
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: libertarianism depends on religion |
30 Jun 2005 01:59:18 AM |
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On 29 Jun 2005 14:50:08 -0700, "Hellbound Alleee" <afrpennycentury@hotmail.com>
wrote:
"it certainly isn't here in the good ol' US of A, where everything's
going up except my wages."
Ah, I see you belong to the Seinfeld school of economy : facts don't
matter if you can make a pithy remark against something. A
crowd-pleaser, no doubt, but still inane and pointless.
Selective quoting and ad hominem duly noted. Also noted is your apparent
inability to cite an example of where and how Libertarian-style economics *are*
working.
As for the USA, well, why any atheist would want to live there is
beyond me.
Your contributions to alt.atheism in the few days since you arrived here give me
the impression that anything much above the level of Saturday morning cartoons
is likely beyond you. As for why any atheist would want to live in the USA, I
was born here. My family, my friends and all I hold dear are here, and despite
the almost daily assaults on our personal liberties by religious fanatics, I
have no desire to move. Only cowards run away. I'd rather stay and fight.
Hating the US is not a requirement for being an atheist. If you don't like my
country, fine. That's your prerogative, but perhaps you'd be kind enough to
explain to me in language a "stupid American" can understand exactly why I
should give a flying *****.
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| User: "Don Kresch" |
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| Title: Re: libertarianism depends on religion |
29 Jun 2005 04:55:09 PM |
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In alt.atheism On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 21:39:41 GMT, John Baker
<nunya@bizniz.net> let us all know that:
On 29 Jun 2005 13:47:02 -0700, "Hellbound Alleee" <afrpennycentury@hotmail.com>
wrote:
"Libertarian economics would certainly require divine intervention to
stand
any chance of working."
They're working fine right now, why would they require divine
intervention to work in the future ?
Tell me where they're working so I can move there, because it certainly isn't
here in the good ol' US of A,
That's because the US isn't based on libertarian economics.
It's based on quasi-Keynsian and quasi-Friedmanite economics.
Don
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| User: "Don Kresch" |
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| Title: Re: libertarianism depends on religion |
29 Jun 2005 04:54:22 PM |
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In alt.atheism On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 20:40:12 GMT, John Baker
<nunya@bizniz.net> let us all know that:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:06:00 -0400, "Dr. Zarkov" <Ming@Mongo.com> wrote:
Divin Marquis wrote:
Le Tue, 28 Jun 2005 18:25:46 -0500, Don Kresch a écrit :
There's a religion called "libertarianism"? News to me. Why
don't you go ahead and prove that.
It's a figure of speech.
It certainly has some characteristics of a religion.
Nonsense.
Well, Libertarian economics would certainly require divine intervention to stand
any chance of working. <G>
No, they would work just fine.
Don
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| User: "Divin Marquis" |
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| Title: Re: libertarianism depends on religion |
29 Jun 2005 08:59:08 PM |
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Le Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:54:22 -0500, Don Kresch a écrit :
Well, Libertarian economics would certainly require divine intervention
to stand any chance of working. <G>
No, they would work just fine.
Ok, your argument is compelling, you've convinced me!
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| User: "Don Kresch" |
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| Title: Re: libertarianism depends on religion |
29 Jun 2005 09:43:03 PM |
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In alt.atheism On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 03:59:08 +0200, Divin Marquis
<postmaster@127.0.0.1> let us all know that:
Le Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:54:22 -0500, Don Kresch a écrit :
Well, Libertarian economics would certainly require divine intervention
to stand any chance of working. <G>
No, they would work just fine.
Ok, your argument is compelling, you've convinced me!
I'm simply responding in the manner chosen by the post to whom
I responded.
Don
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| User: "Daniel Kolle" |
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| Title: Re: libertarianism depends on religion |
30 Jun 2005 06:33:11 PM |
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On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 20:40:12 GMT, John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net>
thought hard and wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:06:00 -0400, "Dr. Zarkov" <Ming@Mongo.com> wrote:
Divin Marquis wrote:
Le Tue, 28 Jun 2005 18:25:46 -0500, Don Kresch a écrit :
There's a religion called "libertarianism"? News to me. Why
don't you go ahead and prove that.
It's a figure of speech.
It certainly has some characteristics of a religion.
Nonsense.
Well, Libertarian economics would certainly require divine intervention to stand
any chance of working. <G>
....You mean capitalism, correct? And by capitalism, I mean true
capitalism, and not this ***** mix that exists today.
--
-Daniel "Mr. Brevity" Kolle; 17 A.A. #2035
Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, Gustav Mahler, Krzysztof Penderecki, and Geirr Tveitt are my Gods.
Head of EAC Denial Department and Madly Insane Scientist.
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| User: "Don Kresch" |
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| Title: Re: libertarianism depends on religion |
29 Jun 2005 07:45:57 AM |
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In alt.atheism On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 13:01:41 +0200, Divin Marquis
<postmaster@127.0.0.1> let us all know that:
Le Tue, 28 Jun 2005 18:25:46 -0500, Don Kresch a écrit :
There's a religion called "libertarianism"? News to me. Why
don't you go ahead and prove that.
It's a figure of speech.
Is it?
It certainly has some characteristics of a religion.
Prove it.
Don
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| User: "Hellbound Alleee" |
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| Title: Re: libertarianism depends on religion |
29 Jun 2005 06:05:24 AM |
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Religions seek to control you by telling you that slavishly believing
in "God" will solve all your problems, even though this fictional
construct "God" cannot have any intention of solving your problems, let
alone actually solve them. Religions are disconfirmed by observation
and the simplest logical reasoning. Religions use emotional appeal and
fear in order to keep people in line, and when that doesn't work,
violence.
Statism (right or left-wing) seeks to control you by telling you that
slavishly believing in the collectivist, fictional construct of "the
state" will solve all social problems, even though this construct
cannot have any intention of solving your problems, let alone actually
solve them. Statism is disconfirmed by observation and the simplest
logical reasoning. "The state" uses emotional appeal and fear in order
to keep people in line, and when that doesn't work, violence.
See any similarities ?
Hellbound Alleee
.................................................................
Listen to the Hellbound Alleee Show at http://www.hellboundalleee.com
.................................................................
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| User: "Divin Marquis" |
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| Title: Re: libertarianism depends on religion |
27 Jun 2005 05:44:30 PM |
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Le Mon, 27 Jun 2005 06:22:44 -0700, yarmfelder a écrit :
It seems that libertarians believe that only humans have "property
rights". But isn't that normally justified using the bible or some other
sacred text? How would an atheist libertarian justify treating animals and
the environment like trash?
Animals have propriety rights; all they have to do is to file a formal
complaint at the nearest court. None of them has done so so far, though.
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