| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"stoney" |
| Date: |
09 Mar 2006 01:14:24 PM |
| Object: |
Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life |
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11736311/
Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life
Cassini spacecraft sees signs of geysers on icy Enceladus
By Alan Boyle
Science editor
MSNBC
Updated: 1:39 p.m. ET March 9, 2006
Scientists have found evidence that cold, Yellowstone-like geysers of
water are issuing from a moon of Saturn called Enceladus, apparently
fueled by liquid reservoirs that may lie just tens of yards beneath the
moon's icy surface.
The surprising discovery, detailed in Friday's issue of the journal
Science, could shoot Enceladus to the top of the list in the search for
life elsewhere in our solar system. Scientists described it as the most
important discovery in planetary science in a quarter-century.
"I think this is important enough that we will see a redirection in the
planetary exploration program," Carolyn Porco, head of the imaging team
for the Cassini mission to Saturn, told MSNBC.com. "We've just brought
Enceladus up to the forefront as a major target of astrobiological
interest."
The readings from Enceladus' geyser plumes indicate that all the
prerequisites for life as we know it could exist beneath Enceladus'
surface, Porco said.
"Living organisms require liquid water and organic materials, and we
know we have both on Enceladus now," she said. "The plumes through which
Cassini flew last July contain methane, contain CO2, propane — they
contain several organic materials."
The third necessary ingredient — energy for fueling life's processes —
could exist around hydrothermal vents around the bottom of Enceladus'
water reservoirs, just as it does around Earth's deep-ocean hydrothermal
vents.
The results impressed University of Colorado planetary scientist Robert
Pappalardo, who has studied Enceladus and other icy moons but was not
involved in the newly published research.
"I think the discovery of activity on Enceladus is about the most
exciting discovery in planetary science since the volcanoes of Io," he
said, referring to the detection of volcanic activity on Jupiter's moon
by the Voyager probe in 1979.
The findings unveiled Thursday are based on imagery as well as
temperature readings from Cassini, a U.S-European spacecraft that has
been studying the ringed planet and its moons since 2004.
The precise sources of geysers could not be spotted directly, because
Cassini's camera isn't quite good enough to spot the bright spray of
water and ice crystals against the bright ice on Enceladus' surface,
said imaging team member Andrew Ingersoll, an atmospheric scientist at
the California Institute of Technology.
However, Cassini's camera repeatedly recorded the spray of ice crystals
and water vapor from Enceladus' south polar region, backlit by sunlight.
That imagery allowed researchers to trace the source back to the
mysterious dark "tiger stripes" previously seen on Enceladus.
A detailed analysis of the spray led researchers to throw out several
possibilities for its origin, including the idea that the geysers'
contents were pure ice or a cometlike slurry of ice and dirt.
The Cassini team found that the spray from the geysers was composed of
equal proportions of ice and water vapor. That ruled out the "pure ice"
model as well as the "comet" model, Porco said. The best remaining model
was that the geyser was driven by liquid water beneath the surface.
"We arrived at our last model, and in some ways somewhat reluctantly,
because this is a pretty extraordinary result," she said. "Like [the
late astronomer] Carl Sagan was fond of saying, 'Extraordinary claims
require extraordinary evidence.'"
The imaging team's conclusion was supported by the temperature readings
from Cassini's infrared spectrometer: Although the surface temperatures
are far below freezing, the readings showed relatively warm spots in the
south polar region, centering on dark cracks that have been nicknamed
"tiger stripes." Scientists traced the internal heating patterns that
could create such warm spots on the surface ice, and concluded that
temperatures could be above freezing mere yards few yards beneath the
surface.
"It can be warm enough 10 meters or so beneath the surface," Porco
explained, "and there's enough pressure to keep liquid water stable at
that depth."
Still more supporting evidence came from an analysis of the ice
surrounding the "tiger stripe" cracks. That ice was amorphous and
virtually crater-free, indicating that it welled up relatively recently.
Cassini's images showed that the geysers rose hundreds of miles above
the surface. Based on the imagery, researchers concluded that most of
the ice crystals fell back to the surface as snow, but some of the ice
escaped Enceladus' gravity field and became part of a wide, thin ring of
Saturn.
Boiling water beneath the surface?
The Cassini team theorized that water could be heated to the boiling
point far beneath the surface, pushing up through the "tiger stripe"
cracks, she said. The source of the heating could be molten rock,
perhaps extending nearer to the surface in the south pole region, she
said.
"If you have molten rock, then we really are playing the game of looking
possibly at an environment that is conducive to living organisms," Porco
said. "If this is correct, we've just hit the ball out of the park. It
doesn't really get much more exciting than this. If this is all we did
on Cassini, this would have made the mission worthwhile."
The types of living organisms Porco and astrobiologists have in mind
aren't little green men or even little green fish. Rather, they're more
likely to be microbes that have adapted to the type of sunless,
chemical-fueled environment seen around Earth's hydrothermal vents. For
years, scientists have theorized that such environments might exist
beneath the similarly icy surface of Europa, a moon of Jupiter, or
beneath the surface soil of Mars.
Years of further research
It will literally take years to follow up on Cassini's findings about
Enceladus: Although the spacecraft made three close flybys of the moon
in 2005, the next close encounter isn't scheduled until 2008. Porco said
the Cassini team is already working to change the probe's orbit to get
closer to the moon, and she said it would be imperative for the Cassini
mission to get an extension beyond 2008 for even more encounters.
"It would be insanity to think that we wouldn't get it, based on this
discovery," she said.
Ingersoll said observations need to be repeated to solidify the case for
liquid water on Enceladus. "I'd be perfectly happy to do this again,
just to see how much variability there is," he said.
One of the big unanswered questions has to do with why so much heat is
emanating from such a little moon. On Europa, the heat is thought to be
generated by a molten core as well as tidal flexing — but on Enceladus,
the calculations for such effects fall short by a factor of 10, Porco
said.
Some scientists have theorized that Enceladus is an asymmetric moon,
with a small molten core that's off-center. That could explain why the
warm spots are concentrated in the south polar region, and why Enceladus
might have regional reservoirs of liquid water rather than a global
subsurface ocean. However, scientists would have to explain how the core
came to be off-center in the first place.
New scientific frontiers
Pappalardo said the research related to Enceladus' geysers suggested
many more scientific questions yet to be answered.
"I think it certainly elevates the priority of further Enceladus
exploration, by the Cassini spacecraft first off," he said. "We really
need to understand what's going on there. What kind of plumbing is there
on Enceladus? What could be maintaining the liquid, if there really is a
reservoir of liquid water within?"
Like Pappalardo, Brown University planetary scientist James Head ranked
the results from Enceladus alongside the 1979 discovery of Io's
volcanoes. Head, an expert on Europa, said the findings could help
reverse NASA cutbacks in space science missions. For example, NASA
recently put a proposed mission to Europa and Jupiter's other icy moons
on hold.
"People are really striving to try to reverse that, because it is such a
clear imperative," he told MSNBC.com.
Porco said that the evidence for liquid water could well put Enceladus
ahead of Europa as a priority for further exploration, but Head said one
icy moon shouldn't be pitted against another.
"These are the kinds of exciting results that exploration is all about,"
he said. "I wouldn’t say it would change the ranking on Europa vs.
Enceladus. What it really says that we need to get off our butts and
explore Europa — because the same kind of exploration is going to give
us hundreds of insights about comparable things."
© 2006 MSNBC
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
|
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| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life |
10 Mar 2006 12:49:50 AM |
|
|
In article <79v012hrqhndb4su7f62p3ts9pkoohpba1@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11736311/
Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life
Cassini spacecraft sees signs of geysers on icy Enceladus
By Alan Boyle
Science editor
MSNBC
Updated: 1:39 p.m. ET March 9, 2006
Scientists have found evidence that cold, Yellowstone-like geysers of
water are issuing from a moon of Saturn called Enceladus, apparently
fueled by liquid reservoirs that may lie just tens of yards beneath the
moon's icy surface.
The surprising discovery, detailed in Friday's issue of the journal
Science, could shoot Enceladus to the top of the list in the search for
life elsewhere in our solar system. Scientists described it as the most
important discovery in planetary science in a quarter-century.
"I think this is important enough that we will see a redirection in the
planetary exploration program," Carolyn Porco, head of the imaging team
for the Cassini mission to Saturn, told MSNBC.com. "We've just brought
Enceladus up to the forefront as a major target of astrobiological
interest."
The readings from Enceladus' geyser plumes indicate that all the
prerequisites for life as we know it could exist beneath Enceladus'
surface, Porco said.
Good find, but we won't know about life for sure unless we go up there
and bring some samples back.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life |
11 Mar 2006 08:10:19 PM |
|
|
On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 22:49:50 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <79v012hrqhndb4su7f62p3ts9pkoohpba1@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11736311/
Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life
Cassini spacecraft sees signs of geysers on icy Enceladus
By Alan Boyle
Science editor
MSNBC
Updated: 1:39 p.m. ET March 9, 2006
Scientists have found evidence that cold, Yellowstone-like geysers of
water are issuing from a moon of Saturn called Enceladus, apparently
fueled by liquid reservoirs that may lie just tens of yards beneath the
moon's icy surface.
The surprising discovery, detailed in Friday's issue of the journal
Science, could shoot Enceladus to the top of the list in the search for
life elsewhere in our solar system. Scientists described it as the most
important discovery in planetary science in a quarter-century.
"I think this is important enough that we will see a redirection in the
planetary exploration program," Carolyn Porco, head of the imaging team
for the Cassini mission to Saturn, told MSNBC.com. "We've just brought
Enceladus up to the forefront as a major target of astrobiological
interest."
The readings from Enceladus' geyser plumes indicate that all the
prerequisites for life as we know it could exist beneath Enceladus'
surface, Porco said.
Good find, but we won't know about life for sure unless we go up there
and bring some samples back.
Provided we don't contaminate the place.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life |
12 Mar 2006 01:05:10 AM |
|
|
In article <bn0712pmvd9n698gad0vdbtc8ouo30r656@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 22:49:50 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <79v012hrqhndb4su7f62p3ts9pkoohpba1@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11736311/
Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life
Cassini spacecraft sees signs of geysers on icy Enceladus
By Alan Boyle
Science editor
MSNBC
Updated: 1:39 p.m. ET March 9, 2006
Scientists have found evidence that cold, Yellowstone-like geysers of
water are issuing from a moon of Saturn called Enceladus, apparently
fueled by liquid reservoirs that may lie just tens of yards beneath the
moon's icy surface.
The surprising discovery, detailed in Friday's issue of the journal
Science, could shoot Enceladus to the top of the list in the search for
life elsewhere in our solar system. Scientists described it as the most
important discovery in planetary science in a quarter-century.
"I think this is important enough that we will see a redirection in the
planetary exploration program," Carolyn Porco, head of the imaging team
for the Cassini mission to Saturn, told MSNBC.com. "We've just brought
Enceladus up to the forefront as a major target of astrobiological
interest."
The readings from Enceladus' geyser plumes indicate that all the
prerequisites for life as we know it could exist beneath Enceladus'
surface, Porco said.
Good find, but we won't know about life for sure unless we go up there
and bring some samples back.
Provided we don't contaminate the place.
I would hope that we would be very careful not to do that.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
|
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|
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
|
| Title: Re: Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life |
11 Mar 2006 08:33:17 PM |
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What's so funny about peace, love and stoney <stoney@the.net> posting
the following on Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:10:19 -0800 iin alt.atheism?
Good find, but we won't know about life for sure unless we go up there
and bring some samples back.
Provided we don't contaminate the place.
That's the trick. We used the last of Galileo's manuervering fuel to
drop it into Jupiter's atmosphere to avoid the chance of contaminating
Europa.
If I were planning the mission, I would have the initial analysis take
place in orbit.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
.
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life |
12 Mar 2006 01:11:04 AM |
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|
In article <jv1712dchmat3d3hu7l0sdk53043ds5e6r@4ax.com>,
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and stoney <stoney@the.net> posting
the following on Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:10:19 -0800 iin alt.atheism?
Good find, but we won't know about life for sure unless we go up there
and bring some samples back.
Provided we don't contaminate the place.
That's the trick. We used the last of Galileo's manuervering fuel to
drop it into Jupiter's atmosphere to avoid the chance of contaminating
Europa.
If I were planning the mission, I would have the initial analysis take
place in orbit.
We can do a lot in orbit these days, but to get a definitive answer, I
think that we would still need a sample of soil or water. The
contamination problems were discussed with the Moon and Mars landers and
I don't know if we have contaminated anything yet, but I agree that
there is a big risk. We need to be extremely careful.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Douglas Berry" |
|
| Title: Re: Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life |
12 Mar 2006 12:47:17 PM |
|
|
What's so funny about peace, love and johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
posting the following on Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:11:04 -0800 iin
alt.atheism?
In article <jv1712dchmat3d3hu7l0sdk53043ds5e6r@4ax.com>,
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and stoney <stoney@the.net> posting
the following on Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:10:19 -0800 iin alt.atheism?
Good find, but we won't know about life for sure unless we go up there
and bring some samples back.
Provided we don't contaminate the place.
That's the trick. We used the last of Galileo's manuervering fuel to
drop it into Jupiter's atmosphere to avoid the chance of contaminating
Europa.
If I were planning the mission, I would have the initial analysis take
place in orbit.
We can do a lot in orbit these days, but to get a definitive answer, I
think that we would still need a sample of soil or water. The
contamination problems were discussed with the Moon and Mars landers and
I don't know if we have contaminated anything yet, but I agree that
there is a big risk. We need to be extremely careful.
I should have been more specific. I meant that when the probe returns
from Saturn, we examine the samples in Earth orbit.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life |
13 Mar 2006 01:03:16 AM |
|
|
In article <j4r812hphg4tddp41ehbp0oj6suajtrqss@4ax.com>,
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
posting the following on Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:11:04 -0800 iin
alt.atheism?
In article <jv1712dchmat3d3hu7l0sdk53043ds5e6r@4ax.com>,
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and stoney <stoney@the.net> posting
the following on Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:10:19 -0800 iin alt.atheism?
Good find, but we won't know about life for sure unless we go up there
and bring some samples back.
Provided we don't contaminate the place.
That's the trick. We used the last of Galileo's manuervering fuel to
drop it into Jupiter's atmosphere to avoid the chance of contaminating
Europa.
If I were planning the mission, I would have the initial analysis take
place in orbit.
We can do a lot in orbit these days, but to get a definitive answer, I
think that we would still need a sample of soil or water. The
contamination problems were discussed with the Moon and Mars landers and
I don't know if we have contaminated anything yet, but I agree that
there is a big risk. We need to be extremely careful.
I should have been more specific. I meant that when the probe returns
from Saturn, we examine the samples in Earth orbit.
Gotcha! Good idea actually. I don't know how sterile the ISS is, but
perhaps they could add a clean room module.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life |
13 Mar 2006 06:12:44 PM |
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|
On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 23:03:16 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <j4r812hphg4tddp41ehbp0oj6suajtrqss@4ax.com>,
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
posting the following on Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:11:04 -0800 iin
alt.atheism?
In article <jv1712dchmat3d3hu7l0sdk53043ds5e6r@4ax.com>,
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and stoney <stoney@the.net> posting
the following on Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:10:19 -0800 iin alt.atheism?
Good find, but we won't know about life for sure unless we go up there
and bring some samples back.
Provided we don't contaminate the place.
That's the trick. We used the last of Galileo's manuervering fuel to
drop it into Jupiter's atmosphere to avoid the chance of contaminating
Europa.
If I were planning the mission, I would have the initial analysis take
place in orbit.
We can do a lot in orbit these days, but to get a definitive answer, I
think that we would still need a sample of soil or water. The
contamination problems were discussed with the Moon and Mars landers and
I don't know if we have contaminated anything yet, but I agree that
there is a big risk. We need to be extremely careful.
I should have been more specific. I meant that when the probe returns
from Saturn, we examine the samples in Earth orbit.
Gotcha! Good idea actually. I don't know how sterile the ISS is, but
perhaps they could add a clean room module.
Don't dump the dustpan outside.....
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life |
14 Mar 2006 12:35:03 AM |
|
|
In article <9j2c121pkkbhv0rufoamsnepdj650o6btl@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 23:03:16 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <j4r812hphg4tddp41ehbp0oj6suajtrqss@4ax.com>,
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
posting the following on Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:11:04 -0800 iin
alt.atheism?
In article <jv1712dchmat3d3hu7l0sdk53043ds5e6r@4ax.com>,
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and stoney <stoney@the.net> posting
the following on Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:10:19 -0800 iin alt.atheism?
Good find, but we won't know about life for sure unless we go up
there
and bring some samples back.
Provided we don't contaminate the place.
That's the trick. We used the last of Galileo's manuervering fuel to
drop it into Jupiter's atmosphere to avoid the chance of contaminating
Europa.
If I were planning the mission, I would have the initial analysis take
place in orbit.
We can do a lot in orbit these days, but to get a definitive answer, I
think that we would still need a sample of soil or water. The
contamination problems were discussed with the Moon and Mars landers and
I don't know if we have contaminated anything yet, but I agree that
there is a big risk. We need to be extremely careful.
I should have been more specific. I meant that when the probe returns
from Saturn, we examine the samples in Earth orbit.
Gotcha! Good idea actually. I don't know how sterile the ISS is, but
perhaps they could add a clean room module.
Don't dump the dustpan outside.....
I wonder where their toilet empties.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life |
14 Mar 2006 01:14:54 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:35:03 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <9j2c121pkkbhv0rufoamsnepdj650o6btl@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 23:03:16 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <j4r812hphg4tddp41ehbp0oj6suajtrqss@4ax.com>,
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
posting the following on Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:11:04 -0800 iin
alt.atheism?
In article <jv1712dchmat3d3hu7l0sdk53043ds5e6r@4ax.com>,
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and stoney <stoney@the.net> posting
the following on Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:10:19 -0800 iin alt.atheism?
Good find, but we won't know about life for sure unless we go up
there
and bring some samples back.
Provided we don't contaminate the place.
That's the trick. We used the last of Galileo's manuervering fuel to
drop it into Jupiter's atmosphere to avoid the chance of contaminating
Europa.
If I were planning the mission, I would have the initial analysis take
place in orbit.
We can do a lot in orbit these days, but to get a definitive answer, I
think that we would still need a sample of soil or water. The
contamination problems were discussed with the Moon and Mars landers and
I don't know if we have contaminated anything yet, but I agree that
there is a big risk. We need to be extremely careful.
I should have been more specific. I meant that when the probe returns
from Saturn, we examine the samples in Earth orbit.
Gotcha! Good idea actually. I don't know how sterile the ISS is, but
perhaps they could add a clean room module.
Don't dump the dustpan outside.....
I wonder where their toilet empties.
Folger's 'coffee crystals' container....
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
|
|
|
| User: "johac" |
|
| Title: Re: Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life |
15 Mar 2006 12:30:45 AM |
|
|
In article <sg5e12p5e3b13s8sjaaerroamfoqd1hg61@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:35:03 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <9j2c121pkkbhv0rufoamsnepdj650o6btl@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 23:03:16 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <j4r812hphg4tddp41ehbp0oj6suajtrqss@4ax.com>,
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
posting the following on Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:11:04 -0800 iin
alt.atheism?
In article <jv1712dchmat3d3hu7l0sdk53043ds5e6r@4ax.com>,
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and stoney <stoney@the.net>
posting
the following on Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:10:19 -0800 iin alt.atheism?
Good find, but we won't know about life for sure unless we go up
there
and bring some samples back.
Provided we don't contaminate the place.
That's the trick. We used the last of Galileo's manuervering fuel
to
drop it into Jupiter's atmosphere to avoid the chance of
contaminating
Europa.
If I were planning the mission, I would have the initial analysis
take
place in orbit.
We can do a lot in orbit these days, but to get a definitive answer, I
think that we would still need a sample of soil or water. The
contamination problems were discussed with the Moon and Mars landers
and
I don't know if we have contaminated anything yet, but I agree that
there is a big risk. We need to be extremely careful.
I should have been more specific. I meant that when the probe returns
from Saturn, we examine the samples in Earth orbit.
Gotcha! Good idea actually. I don't know how sterile the ISS is, but
perhaps they could add a clean room module.
Don't dump the dustpan outside.....
I wonder where their toilet empties.
Folger's 'coffee crystals' container....
I don't go for instant coffee anyway, but I'll be sure to avoid that
brand.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life |
18 Mar 2006 06:57:18 PM |
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On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 22:30:45 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <sg5e12p5e3b13s8sjaaerroamfoqd1hg61@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:35:03 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <9j2c121pkkbhv0rufoamsnepdj650o6btl@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 23:03:16 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <j4r812hphg4tddp41ehbp0oj6suajtrqss@4ax.com>,
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
posting the following on Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:11:04 -0800 iin
alt.atheism?
In article <jv1712dchmat3d3hu7l0sdk53043ds5e6r@4ax.com>,
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and stoney <stoney@the.net>
posting
the following on Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:10:19 -0800 iin alt.atheism?
Good find, but we won't know about life for sure unless we go up
there
and bring some samples back.
Provided we don't contaminate the place.
That's the trick. We used the last of Galileo's manuervering fuel
to
drop it into Jupiter's atmosphere to avoid the chance of
contaminating
Europa.
If I were planning the mission, I would have the initial analysis
take
place in orbit.
We can do a lot in orbit these days, but to get a definitive answer, I
think that we would still need a sample of soil or water. The
contamination problems were discussed with the Moon and Mars landers
and
I don't know if we have contaminated anything yet, but I agree that
there is a big risk. We need to be extremely careful.
I should have been more specific. I meant that when the probe returns
from Saturn, we examine the samples in Earth orbit.
Gotcha! Good idea actually. I don't know how sterile the ISS is, but
perhaps they could add a clean room module.
Don't dump the dustpan outside.....
I wonder where their toilet empties.
Folger's 'coffee crystals' container....
I don't go for instant coffee anyway, but I'll be sure to avoid that
brand.
Capitol idea.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life |
14 Mar 2006 05:27:06 AM |
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On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:35:03 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-0BD8DC.22350313032006@news.giganews.com>
In article <9j2c121pkkbhv0rufoamsnepdj650o6btl@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 23:03:16 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <j4r812hphg4tddp41ehbp0oj6suajtrqss@4ax.com>,
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
posting the following on Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:11:04 -0800 iin
alt.atheism?
In article <jv1712dchmat3d3hu7l0sdk53043ds5e6r@4ax.com>,
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and stoney <stoney@the.net> posting
the following on Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:10:19 -0800 iin alt.atheism?
Good find, but we won't know about life for sure unless we go up
there
and bring some samples back.
Provided we don't contaminate the place.
That's the trick. We used the last of Galileo's manuervering fuel to
drop it into Jupiter's atmosphere to avoid the chance of contaminating
Europa.
If I were planning the mission, I would have the initial analysis take
place in orbit.
We can do a lot in orbit these days, but to get a definitive answer, I
think that we would still need a sample of soil or water. The
contamination problems were discussed with the Moon and Mars landers and
I don't know if we have contaminated anything yet, but I agree that
there is a big risk. We need to be extremely careful.
I should have been more specific. I meant that when the probe returns
from Saturn, we examine the samples in Earth orbit.
Gotcha! Good idea actually. I don't know how sterile the ISS is, but
perhaps they could add a clean room module.
Don't dump the dustpan outside.....
I wonder where their toilet empties.
The White House.
Which I hereby officially rename: the "Brown House".
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life |
14 Mar 2006 01:15:25 PM |
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On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 21:57:06 +1030, Michael Gray
<fleetg@newsguy.spam.com> wrote in alt.atheism
On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 22:35:03 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
- Refer: <jhachmann-0BD8DC.22350313032006@news.giganews.com>
In article <9j2c121pkkbhv0rufoamsnepdj650o6btl@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 23:03:16 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote in alt.atheism
In article <j4r812hphg4tddp41ehbp0oj6suajtrqss@4ax.com>,
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
posting the following on Sat, 11 Mar 2006 23:11:04 -0800 iin
alt.atheism?
In article <jv1712dchmat3d3hu7l0sdk53043ds5e6r@4ax.com>,
Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:
What's so funny about peace, love and stoney <stoney@the.net> posting
the following on Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:10:19 -0800 iin alt.atheism?
Good find, but we won't know about life for sure unless we go up
there
and bring some samples back.
Provided we don't contaminate the place.
That's the trick. We used the last of Galileo's manuervering fuel to
drop it into Jupiter's atmosphere to avoid the chance of contaminating
Europa.
If I were planning the mission, I would have the initial analysis take
place in orbit.
We can do a lot in orbit these days, but to get a definitive answer, I
think that we would still need a sample of soil or water. The
contamination problems were discussed with the Moon and Mars landers and
I don't know if we have contaminated anything yet, but I agree that
there is a big risk. We need to be extremely careful.
I should have been more specific. I meant that when the probe returns
from Saturn, we examine the samples in Earth orbit.
Gotcha! Good idea actually. I don't know how sterile the ISS is, but
perhaps they could add a clean room module.
Don't dump the dustpan outside.....
I wonder where their toilet empties.
The White House.
Which I hereby officially rename: the "Brown House".
I've been calling it the ***** House for quite some time now.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life |
12 Mar 2006 04:42:41 PM |
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On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 02:33:17 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in alt.atheism
What's so funny about peace, love and stoney <stoney@the.net> posting
the following on Sat, 11 Mar 2006 18:10:19 -0800 iin alt.atheism?
Good find, but we won't know about life for sure unless we go up there
and bring some samples back.
Provided we don't contaminate the place.
That's the trick. We used the last of Galileo's manuervering fuel to
drop it into Jupiter's atmosphere to avoid the chance of contaminating
Europa.
If I were planning the mission, I would have the initial analysis take
place in orbit.
It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
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| User: "Rune B" |
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| Title: Re: Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life |
10 Mar 2006 05:30:54 AM |
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On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 22:49:50 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
Good find, but we won't know about life for sure unless we go up there
and bring some samples back.
I'll go. My skin is toughened to the cold :-)
--
WWJD! What Would Jack (Bauer) Do?
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life |
11 Mar 2006 12:37:39 AM |
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In article <5qo212lahss6vrcl6a4frc39k55ou2dcpm@4ax.com>,
Rune B <nobody@nowhere.net> wrote:
On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 22:49:50 -0800, johac <jhachmann@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
Good find, but we won't know about life for sure unless we go up there
and bring some samples back.
I'll go. My skin is toughened to the cold :-)
OK. Report to NASA, launch pad 16. You'll have to bring your own rocket
though with the budget being tight and all that.
--
WWJD! What Would Jack (Bauer) Do?
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life |
11 Mar 2006 02:19:12 AM |
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They said this to Galileo, too.
And to Columbus.
Or to van Leeuwenhoek.
Or Dmitry Ivanovsky.
Or Stanley Prusiner.
They had evidence.
Water shows the possibility of life since chemical reactions require a
solution. Water is a great solution for life. If we are going to
look for life as we know it, places with liquid water are the place
to
start.
Wtaer does not should the possibility of life unless all the other
thousands of ingredients are present. And even then it still means
nothing if life is not capable of spontaneously starting.
So? Actually we have found organic molecules both in meteorites and
in distant nebulae.
Organic molecules are not life and they don't mean life. You have found
them but you haven't found life with them. They do not mean life.
*Liquid* water. Mountains of ice are one thing, but the neat thing
about Enceladus is that the water appears to be only a few meters
under the ice. Easy to get to for examination.
I agree. That IS neat. And I wish we could all go explore it. But why
is the obsession with extraterrestrial life required to get us there?
Can you refute his math? Notice the word *if* there. The statement
is not one of fact, but one of speculation.
There are 400 billion stars in our galaxy. About 30% of those are of
a luminosity class, size and age to be good candidates for having
planets like Earth.
The math means nothing if life cannot spontaneously spring into
existance.
Why are you so afraid of us finding that life is found elsewhere in
the solar system?
I'm not. I think it would be great to find it if it exists. But until
someone finds something to demonstrate that life could come into
existance outside of the earth why not put all our efforts and money
into exploiting what we have. Hey, how about colonizing other planets.
A couple of people skulking around up there will find life a lot faster
than a computerized probe, is it exists.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life |
11 Mar 2006 10:54:50 AM |
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What's so funny about peace, love and posting
the following on 11 Mar 2006 00:19:12 -0800 iin alt.atheism?
They said this to Galileo, too.
And to Columbus.
Or to van Leeuwenhoek.
Or Dmitry Ivanovsky.
Or Stanley Prusiner.
They had evidence.
So do we, but you refuse to look at it.
Water shows the possibility of life since chemical reactions require a
solution. Water is a great solution for life. If we are going to
look for life as we know it, places with liquid water are the place
to
start.
Wtaer does not should the possibility of life unless all the other
thousands of ingredients are present. And even then it still means
nothing if life is not capable of spontaneously starting.
*sigh* Based on what we know, the best place to look for life outside
Earth is somewhere with liquid water. We have no found a place with
liquid water
So? Actually we have found organic molecules both in meteorites and
in distant nebulae.
Organic molecules are not life and they don't mean life. You have found
them but you haven't found life with them. They do not mean life.
Again, they are clues for the hunt. Finding all the ingredients for a
chocolate cake in my kitchen doesn't mean that there is a cake there,
but it shows that the potential for cake is there.
*Liquid* water. Mountains of ice are one thing, but the neat thing
about Enceladus is that the water appears to be only a few meters
under the ice. Easy to get to for examination.
I agree. That IS neat. And I wish we could all go explore it. But why
is the obsession with extraterrestrial life required to get us there?
Who's obsessed? We have found something very exciting, and in 15 or
20 years a probe will probably flew around that moon to collect water
samples.
And why be excited about finding life on other worlds? Other than it
being possibly the single most important discovery in human history?
The knowledge that Earth is not alone, even if all we find are
single-celled critters floating around?
Can you refute his math? Notice the word *if* there. The statement
is not one of fact, but one of speculation.
There are 400 billion stars in our galaxy. About 30% of those are of
a luminosity class, size and age to be good candidates for having
planets like Earth.
The math means nothing if life cannot spontaneously spring into
existance.
And can you prove that abiogenesis can't happen? How up are you on
microbiology? RNA transfers? Scientists are finding out all sorts of
things about the development of life on Earth, and one thing is clear,
it could have happened, and probably still is happening down at the
deep ocean vents.
Why are you so afraid of us finding that life is found elsewhere in
the solar system?
I'm not. I think it would be great to find it if it exists. But until
someone finds something to demonstrate that life could come into
existance outside of the earth why not put all our efforts and money
into exploiting what we have. Hey, how about colonizing other planets.
A couple of people skulking around up there will find life a lot faster
than a computerized probe, is it exists.
I actually agree with you here. Problem is right now the costs of
sending a manned mission to Saturn is prohibitively high and faces
some severe technological hurdles. So we do what we can with probes.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life |
10 Mar 2006 01:22:04 PM |
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O my gosh!!! Will you scientific types get a life...and I mean your
own, not a make believe one from outer space.
So we found water (maybe). BIG DEAL!!!! You spend all your lives
looking for something that probably doesn't exist. What a waste of
your
life. What if you used science to actually explore and learn instead
of
using it to chase after dreams that have never been shown to be
capable
of coming true. If you just went exploring you might find some things
that would make a name for yourselves.
Water means the possibility of life. Who said? The discovery of oil
under the earth doesn't prove the existence of cars even though we
know that all cars depend on oil to exist. O, you say, cars can not
evolve from nothing. HA!!! They can too according to the theory of
evolution. Given enough time and the right conditions the atoms and
molecules can bump into each other in the right combinations and form
into a car. Admittedly this would take billions or maybe trillions of
years, but in the life of eternity that is not any time at all.
Ridiculous? So is all your jabber about life on other planets. Its
never been proven that life can 'form' by natural means. Sure the
molecules that living things contain may form but that doesn't mean
anything. No ones ever seen a fossil or a clue that any kind of life
ever lived beyond the earth.
SO WHAT if there is water out there. Of course there is water out
there. Any element that is on the earth can be found out there, in
abundance. But theres no reason to think life is out there.
One of sciences most precious lines is...With all the billions and
billions of stars out there, if just 1 tenth of 1 percent of the most
likely stars had planets with life, that would mean that there are
50,000,000 planets with life. This is themost unscientific statement
ever uttered and it is the best argument that science has.
Get a life. Just go exploring and make awesome discoveries and find
ways to use the resources out there. Most discoveries are made by
serendipity, not by looking for some rediculous pipe ream
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life |
10 Mar 2006 03:10:50 PM |
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wrote:
O my gosh!!! Will you scientific types get a life...and I mean your
own, not a make believe one from outer space.
So we found water (maybe). BIG DEAL!!!! You spend all your lives
looking for something that probably doesn't exist.
They said this to Galileo, too.
And to Columbus.
Or to van Leeuwenhoek.
Or Dmitry Ivanovsky.
Or Stanley Prusiner.
Or...
j.m.
#1491
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| User: "Pastor Bluskie" |
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| Title: Re: Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life |
10 Mar 2006 06:04:38 PM |
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wrote:
O my gosh!!! Will you scientific types get a life...and I mean your
own, not a make believe one from outer space.
Get a life. Just go exploring and make awesome discoveries and find
ways to use the resources out there. Most discoveries are made by
serendipity, not by looking for some rediculous pipe ream
This is not part of Gods plan but is the work of satan. God created
Life on this planet as a oasis, a sancturary, a paradise in the cruel
vast chaos of the cosmos. Gods purpose for humanity is clear, it's to
live in accordance to GODS LAWS and worship and give thanks for the
blessings and gifts that God gives you in this world. Looking for
alien life, or searching for resources in the far reaches of space is
not a realistic and practical way to worship God, in fact its just the
opposite, its the worship of satan, and will lead to suffering for the
human race and eventual eternal damnation, not salvation.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life |
10 Mar 2006 11:15:28 PM |
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What's so funny about peace, love and "Pastor Bluskie"
<wildbluskies@hotmail.com> posting the following on 10 Mar 2006
16:04:38 -0800 iin alt.atheism?
sofasurfer@blclinks.net wrote:
O my gosh!!! Will you scientific types get a life...and I mean your
own, not a make believe one from outer space.
Get a life. Just go exploring and make awesome discoveries and find
ways to use the resources out there. Most discoveries are made by
serendipity, not by looking for some rediculous pipe ream
This is not part of Gods plan but is the work of satan. God created
Life on this planet as a oasis, a sancturary, a paradise in the cruel
vast chaos of the cosmos. Gods purpose for humanity is clear, it's to
live in accordance to GODS LAWS and worship and give thanks for the
blessings and gifts that God gives you in this world. Looking for
alien life, or searching for resources in the far reaches of space is
not a realistic and practical way to worship God, in fact its just the
opposite, its the worship of satan, and will lead to suffering for the
human race and eventual eternal damnation, not salvation.
That's what they said about practical anesthetics. And steam engines.
And electricity.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life |
11 Mar 2006 08:11:59 PM |
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On 10 Mar 2006 11:22:04 -0800, wrote in
alt.atheism
O my gosh!!! Will you scientific types get a life...and I mean your
own, not a make believe one from outer space.
I'm so sorry you're such a coward and hypocrite. Now kindly *****.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life |
10 Mar 2006 11:12:21 PM |
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On 10 Mar 2006 11:22:04 -0800, wrote:
- Refer: <1142018524.627948.183610@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>
O my gosh!!! Will you scientific types get a life...and I mean your
own, not a make believe one from outer space.
:
I already have one.
Perhaps you should try getting an intellect.
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life |
10 Mar 2006 05:36:07 PM |
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On 10 Mar 2006 11:22:04 -0800, wrote:
O my gosh!!! Will you scientific types get a life...
Oh my gosh!!! Will you get a brain...
Idiot.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life |
11 Mar 2006 08:14:20 PM |
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On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 23:36:07 GMT, John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in
alt.atheism
On 10 Mar 2006 11:22:04 -0800, wrote:
O my gosh!!! Will you scientific types get a life...
Oh my gosh!!! Will you get a brain...
and a hint of spine.
Idiot.
it isn't that evolved.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
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| User: "William Wingstedt" |
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| Title: Re: Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life |
11 Mar 2006 09:22:06 AM |
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On 10 Mar 2006 11:22:04 -0800, wrote:
O my gosh!!! Will you scientific types get a life...and I mean your
own, not a make believe one from outer space.
So we found water (maybe). BIG DEAL!!!! You spend all your lives
looking for something that probably doesn't exist. What a waste of
your life. What if you used science to actually explore and learn instead
of using it to chase after dreams that have never been shown to be
capable of coming true. If you just went exploring you might find some things
that would make a name for yourselves.
Water means the possibility of life. Who said? The discovery of oil
under the earth doesn't prove the existence of cars even though we
know that all cars depend on oil to exist.
No they don't.
O, you say, cars can not evolve from nothing. HA!!! They can too according to the theory of
evolution. Given enough time and the right conditions the atoms and
molecules can bump into each other in the right combinations and form
into a car. Admittedly this would take billions or maybe trillions of
years, but in the life of eternity that is not any time at all.
Cars exist. What's your point? That giant hands reached down from the
clouds and pinched them together from clay?
Ridiculous? So is all your jabber about life on other planets. Its
never been proven that life can 'form' by natural means.
What other means are there?
Sure the
molecules that living things contain may form but that doesn't mean
anything. No ones ever seen a fossil or a clue that any kind of life
ever lived beyond the earth.
That's precisely why we're looking.
SO WHAT if there is water out there. Of course there is water out
there. Any element that is on the earth can be found out there, in
abundance. But theres no reason to think life is out there.
Of course there is. If everything that is on earth is "out there",
then why wouldn't life?
One of sciences most precious lines is...With all the billions and
billions of stars out there, if just 1 tenth of 1 percent of the most
likely stars had planets with life, that would mean that there are
50,000,000 planets with life. This is themost unscientific statement
ever uttered and it is the best argument that science has.
What do you know of science?
Get a life. Just go exploring and make awesome discoveries and find
ways to use the resources out there. Most discoveries are made by
serendipity, not by looking for some rediculous pipe ream
What you do with your pipe is really none of my business...
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life |
10 Mar 2006 03:14:31 PM |
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What's so funny about peace, love and posting
the following on 10 Mar 2006 11:22:04 -0800 iin alt.atheism?
O my gosh!!! Will you scientific types get a life...and I mean your
own, not a make believe one from outer space.
Why do you assume we don't have lives?
So we found water (maybe). BIG DEAL!!!! You spend all your lives
looking for something that probably doesn't exist. What a waste of
your life. What if you used science to actually explore and learn instead
of using it to chase after dreams that have never been shown to be
capable of coming true. If you just went exploring you might find some things
that would make a name for yourselves.
Um, we are exploring and learning. For example, we are exploring the
Saturnian moon system, and have learned that there is water, liquid
water, on Enceladus.
Edison chased a dream, which is why we have lights at night and
recorded music to listen to; Marconi chased a dream, and we have
radio.
Astronomers chase a different dream: knowledge of the universe.
Water means the possibility of life. Who said? The discovery of oil
under the earth doesn't prove the existence of cars even though we
know that all cars depend on oil to exist. O, you say, cars can not
evolve from nothing. HA!!! They can too according to the theory of
evolution. Given enough time and the right conditions the atoms and
molecules can bump into each other in the right combinations and form
into a car. Admittedly this would take billions or maybe trillions of
years, but in the life of eternity that is not any time at all.
Well, you expose your ignorance here. Evolution requires an ability
to reproduce, and a genetic code that can be modified. Cars have
neither.
Water shows the possibility of life since chemical reactions require a
solution. Water is a great solution for life. If we are going to
look for life as we know it, places with liquid water are the place to
start.
Ridiculous? So is all your jabber about life on other planets. Its
never been proven that life can 'form' by natural means. Sure the
molecules that living things contain may form but that doesn't mean
anything. No ones ever seen a fossil or a clue that any kind of life
ever lived beyond the earth.
So? Actually we have found organic molecules both in meteorites and
in distant nebulae. Add in the vast amount of water out there, and we
have plenty of clues about extraterrestrial life.
SO WHAT if there is water out there. Of course there is water out
there. Any element that is on the earth can be found out there, in
abundance. But theres no reason to think life is out there.
*Liquid* water. Mountains of ice are one thing, but the neat thing
about Enceladus is that the water appears to be only a few meters
under the ice. Easy to get to for examination.
One of sciences most precious lines is...With all the billions and
billions of stars out there, if just 1 tenth of 1 percent of the most
likely stars had planets with life, that would mean that there are
50,000,000 planets with life. This is themost unscientific statement
ever uttered and it is the best argument that science has.
Can you refute his math? Notice the word *if* there. The statement
is not one of fact, but one of speculation.
There are 400 billion stars in our galaxy. About 30% of those are of
a luminosity class, size and age to be good candidates for having
planets like Earth.
Get a life. Just go exploring and make awesome discoveries and find
ways to use the resources out there. Most discoveries are made by
serendipity, not by looking for some rediculous pipe ream
Um, are you at all familiar with Cassini? The discover of the geysers
on Enceladus was serendipitous. Just the discovery of the sulfur
volcanoes on Io was a happy accident. We send out probes not
expecting anything. We are constantly amazed at the wonders we find.
Why are you so afraid of us finding that life is found elsewhere in
the solar system?
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
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| User: "Khendon" |
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| Title: Re: Liquid water on Saturn moon could support life |
10 Mar 2006 08:40:01 PM |
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"Douglas Berry" <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
news:p0q312l2aotvd1bt7cggqopcksp9n86vhe@4ax.com...
<snippage for length>
Um, are you at all familiar with Cassini? The discover of the geysers
on Enceladus was serendipitous. Just the discovery of the sulfur
volcanoes on Io was a happy accident. We send out probes not
expecting anything. We are constantly amazed at the wonders we find.
Why are you so afraid of us finding that life is found elsewhere in
the solar system?
They're afraid if we find life elsewhere in the universe (and not just on
our li'l ball of rock) that it will show what we've been telling them all
along.
That there wasn't any "creation", that their book-o-blood is just that - a
rather sadistic mythology book, and that they have been deluding themselves
for centuries.
Of course, there are some theists out there who should probably be sheltered
from these discoveries - the ones who have blatantly stated that the only
thing that is keeping them from murder, rape, etc. is their "belief" in
their sky pixies - we need for them to continue being deluded, in the
interest of public safety...
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