Religions > Atheism > "Logic is Overrated" - What movies like "Gothica" teach America's youth...
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Denis Giron" |
| Date: |
23 Nov 2003 07:37:30 AM |
| Object: |
"Logic is Overrated" - What movies like "Gothica" teach America's youth... |
Greetings.
Last night I saw the movie "Gothica," starring Halle Berry, and I
realized that this sort of movie may be playing a role in our country
heading into a crisis period with regard to the youth's ability to
think critically.
Before I begin my review of the movie, I want to bring up a cartoon
from my youth: Scooby Doo. The old Scooby Doo cartoons always had
aliens, ghosts, monsters and other assorted beings from the realm of
the paranormal or cryptozoological. However (unlike recent remakes of
the cartoon or the recent Scooby Doo movie), it always turned out that
the various aliens and ghosts turned out to be frauds (sometimes the
explanations were a bit humorous, like ghosts being simply made by
flash lights and onion paper, et cetera). When I was a child, I never
understood why the aliens, ghosts, monsters, et cetera, always turned
out to be fake. However, now I understand that the minds behind Scooby
Doo were geniuses. The moral of every single episode was that there is
always a rational explanation. While it didn't sink into my brain
until I was an adult, it was nonetheless noble of the creators/writers
of this show to put forth a cartoon that, in a subtle way, encouraged
critical thinking in children with regard to the paranormal.
These days, no such show exists. Filling in their place, shows like
the X-Files have a constant theme over and over again, and it is one
that is the opposite of that found in every Scooby Doo show. In shows
like the X-Files, and countless other movies and television shows
about the paranormal or the divine, there is always a character who
plays "the skeptic" - who continues to disbelieve even after being
faced with indisputable proof. The skeptic either converts at the end,
or is killed as a result of their foolish disbelief. The moral is that
skepticism and critical thinking are not only wrong and foolhardy, but
often dangerous to your health (exempli gratia: telling oneself there
is no such thing as monsters as the blood-thirsty monster is heading
towards them).
In "Gothica," Halle Berry plays a psychologist who has high praise for
"logic" and rational thinking. One of her patients in a ward
(apparently) for the criminally insane tells her that she does not
listen with he heart; rather she only listens with her brain (at the
time this made no sense to me). As the movie goes on, Berry's
character is possessed by a ghost that forces her to kill her husband,
and she ends up being a patient in the very ward she used to work in!
While she is in her cell, she is tortured by ghosts (and there are
hints that Satan himself may be coming to pay her a visit real soon),
all the while trying to tell herself that she is a raional person, she
believes in "logic," and she certainly does not believe in ghosts.
Ultimately, she accepts that there are ghosts, and these ghosts go on
to help set her free (and some how vindicate her in the crime of
killing her husband).
When she is finally converted (when she sees the light), another
character asks her to "be logical" - to which she replies: "logic is
overrated". That line encapsulated the entire movie. It is later
explained that she has finally learned how to listen (i.e. with her
"heart"). Thus the moral being painfully obvious: skepticism, logic
and critical thinking will lead you only down the path to your own
destruction. It is only when you stop using your "brain" to examine
the evidence and start using your "heart", only when you stop using
your "overrated" logic to attempt to make sense of a situation, will
you be able to see the true nature of reality and save yourself.
Of course, this is only a quick review off the top of my head, but it
bothered me nonetheless. It seems to me that these days people are
demonstrating an ability to think critically less and less often in
this country (though I may be wrong). I wonder if the fact that we
live in a county where more people believe in angels than the theory
of evolution, a country where one of our highest elected leaders cited
"Jesus Christ" as his favorite philosopher, is in part due to the way
mainstream entertainment shapes the minds of our youth. I'm curious
what others think.
-Denis Giron
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| User: "Barbrawl McBribe" |
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| Title: Re: "Logic is Overrated" - What movies like "Gothica" teach America's youth... |
27 Nov 2003 04:04:06 PM |
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<snip>
Of course, this is only a quick review off the top of my head, but it
bothered me nonetheless. It seems to me that these days people are
demonstrating an ability to think critically less and less often in
this country (though I may be wrong). I wonder if the fact that we
live in a county where more people believe in angels than the theory
of evolution
I'd say, personally, both are valid.
a country where one of our highest elected leaders cited
"Jesus Christ" as his favorite philosopher
But JC was at least as good a philosopher as Voltaire or Lao-Tzu, if
not better. So what is the problem??
is in part due to the way
mainstream entertainment shapes the minds of our youth. I'm curious
what others think.
Gothica seemed like itwd suck...hm..."logic is overrated"...sounds
like the implementation of a COBOL compiler...
.
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| User: "Stephen A. Meigs" |
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| Title: Re: "Logic is Overrated" - What movies like "Gothica" teach America's youth... |
25 Nov 2003 04:45:24 PM |
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"Denis Giron" <denis_giron@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bac0a2be.0311230537.3fe34a30@posting.google.com...
Greetings.
Last night I saw the movie "Gothica," starring Halle Berry, and I
realized that this sort of movie may be playing a role in our country
heading into a crisis period with regard to the youth's ability to
think critically.
Before I begin my review of the movie, I want to bring up a cartoon
from my youth: Scooby Doo. The old Scooby Doo cartoons always had
aliens, ghosts, monsters and other assorted beings from the realm of
the paranormal or cryptozoological. However (unlike recent remakes of
the cartoon or the recent Scooby Doo movie), it always turned out that
the various aliens and ghosts turned out to be frauds (sometimes the
explanations were a bit humorous, like ghosts being simply made by
flash lights and onion paper, et cetera). When I was a child, I never
understood why the aliens, ghosts, monsters, et cetera, always turned
out to be fake. However, now I understand that the minds behind Scooby
Doo were geniuses. The moral of every single episode was that there is
always a rational explanation. While it didn't sink into my brain
until I was an adult, it was nonetheless noble of the creators/writers
of this show to put forth a cartoon that, in a subtle way, encouraged
critical thinking in children with regard to the paranormal.
I would say that it is true that observation shows that people have certain
predictable tendencies to be paranoid about matters sharing certain
identifiable characteristics. E.g., matters that are secretive,
non-rational, spooky, violent, quick, messy, suggestive of conspiracy,
vaguely sexual, etc. Scooby Doo therefore can serve a purpose by teaching
children to be wary of these paranoid tendencies. The most salient example I
know of the Scooby-Doo phenomenon occurred when in 1392, France was plunged
into troubtled anarachy because (purportedly) the Duke of Burgundy dressed
up a fellow in a bed sheet to to scare Charles VI. The dire predictions and
warnings of what Charles VI thought were a ghost rather caused him to go
insane and to effectively lose control of the country, almost leading to the
defeat of France in the 100 Years War.
That said, I feel it is more economical and logical to believe that there is
some reason that people are paranoid about things, namely that there must be
something rather similar to all the things that people are paranoid about
which in fact it is important for people to fear more than their emotions
would otherwise have a tendency to fear. I believe that sodomy is what it is
important for people to fear. My hypothesis is that semen contains addictive
chemicals (really it would be surprising if it didn't, given the
evolutionary advantage to men being able to addict females into sex, and
given that sodomy happens), which can be absorbed by the digestive system
but not by the reproductive system. In fact, it is probably no coincidence
that mammals are the most advanced animals and that (with a very few
exceptions) they are the only animals to have vaginas as opposed to just one
opening for the female reproductive system and the terminus of the digestive
sytem. In reptiles and birds, all sex is probably somewhat addictive to
females, which doubtless makes sexual selection less effective there.
Because sodomy warps the emotions in such a way as to make itself seem more
innocuous than it is, people have doubtless evolved to compensate by being
very leery emotionally of anything sharing its characteristics. Thus,
people's tendency toward paranoia causes people to hate sodomy a more
correct amount than they otherwise would. Of course, paranoia also causes
people to fear Kennedy assassins, gypsies, sex, devil worshippers, etc.,
more than they should, but apparently the latter paranoia is not so
disadvantageous as it is advantageous that paranoia causes people to hate
sodomy a more reasonable amount.
Check out http://members.aol.com/exactmorality/morality3.htm for this
anti-sodomy theory of mine. (Alternatively, read the addiction chapter by
downloading my free online book, Exact Morality for Today, available at
http://members.aol.com/step314/EMFT.html .)
Sodomy, like any other chemical addiction, is something that affects the
emotions. Accordingly, I can imagine that logicians and mathematicians (I
majored in math and think much about logic) may be supposed of all people to
tend to have the best defenses against it. That said, there is the tendency
of intellectuals in general to pretend that intellectual error or ignorance
is what one should be ashamed of as opposed to sodomy. I posit that shame is
basically an anti-sodomy defense, and that it is so easy to make people
ashamed of rational failures because as mentioned being rational is a
defense against sodomy. Something I noticed when teaching, for instance, is
that students can just go numb from shame after a poor performance in an
exam and give up studying for the rest of the semester. If teachers made
students realize that doing poor on an exam or failing to understand a
concept is distinct from getting one's ***** screwed, I think they would tend
to do better, even if they might not view logicians or an understanding of
logic or math as quite so urgently important. At any rate, by causing them
to have a better understanding of what they should fear, they might be
encouraged to be more moral in their sexual behavior!
.
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| User: "Dr. DuFonet" |
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| Title: Re: "Logic is Overrated" - What movies like "Gothica" teach America's youth... |
23 Nov 2003 07:36:53 PM |
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"Denis Giron" <denis_giron@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bac0a2be.0311230537.3fe34a30@posting.google.com...
Greetings.
Last night I saw the movie "Gothica," starring Halle Berry, and I
realized that this sort of movie may be playing a role in our country
heading into a crisis period with regard to the youth's ability to
think critically.
Before I begin my review of the movie, I want to bring up a cartoon
from my youth: Scooby Doo. The old Scooby Doo cartoons always had
aliens, ghosts, monsters and other assorted beings from the realm of
the paranormal or cryptozoological. However (unlike recent remakes of
the cartoon or the recent Scooby Doo movie), it always turned out that
the various aliens and ghosts turned out to be frauds (sometimes the
explanations were a bit humorous, like ghosts being simply made by
flash lights and onion paper, et cetera). When I was a child, I never
understood why the aliens, ghosts, monsters, et cetera, always turned
out to be fake. However, now I understand that the minds behind Scooby
Doo were geniuses. The moral of every single episode was that there is
always a rational explanation. While it didn't sink into my brain
until I was an adult, it was nonetheless noble of the creators/writers
of this show to put forth a cartoon that, in a subtle way, encouraged
critical thinking in children with regard to the paranormal.
These days, no such show exists.
Scooby Doo is still on, you f*g idiot. One of the shows I happened to see
was very offensive to southern so-called white people. Since I was born in
the south I never watch it any more, and also because it's psychologially
harmful to children and other living beings. Maybe that's why you are such a
dork.
Filling in their place, shows like
the X-Files have a constant theme over and over again, and it is one
that is the opposite of that found in every Scooby Doo show. In shows
like the X-Files, and countless other movies and television shows
about the paranormal or the divine, there is always a character who
plays "the skeptic" - who continues to disbelieve even after being
faced with indisputable proof. The skeptic either converts at the end,
or is killed as a result of their foolish disbelief. The moral is that
skepticism and critical thinking are not only wrong and foolhardy, but
often dangerous to your health (exempli gratia: telling oneself there
is no such thing as monsters as the blood-thirsty monster is heading
towards them).
In "Gothica," Halle Berry plays a psychologist who has high praise for
"logic" and rational thinking. One of her patients in a ward
(apparently) for the criminally insane tells her that she does not
listen with he heart; rather she only listens with her brain (at the
time this made no sense to me). As the movie goes on, Berry's
character is possessed by a ghost that forces her to kill her husband,
and she ends up being a patient in the very ward she used to work in!
While she is in her cell, she is tortured by ghosts (and there are
hints that Satan himself may be coming to pay her a visit real soon),
all the while trying to tell herself that she is a raional person, she
believes in "logic," and she certainly does not believe in ghosts.
Ultimately, she accepts that there are ghosts, and these ghosts go on
to help set her free (and some how vindicate her in the crime of
killing her husband).
When she is finally converted (when she sees the light), another
character asks her to "be logical" - to which she replies: "logic is
overrated". That line encapsulated the entire movie. It is later
explained that she has finally learned how to listen (i.e. with her
"heart"). Thus the moral being painfully obvious: skepticism, logic
and critical thinking will lead you only down the path to your own
destruction. It is only when you stop using your "brain" to examine
the evidence and start using your "heart", only when you stop using
your "overrated" logic to attempt to make sense of a situation, will
you be able to see the true nature of reality and save yourself.
Of course, this is only a quick review off the top of my head, but it
bothered me nonetheless. It seems to me that these days people are
demonstrating an ability to think critically less and less often in
this country (though I may be wrong). I wonder if the fact that we
live in a county where more people believe in angels than the theory
of evolution, a country where one of our highest elected leaders cited
"Jesus Christ" as his favorite philosopher, is in part due to the way
mainstream entertainment shapes the minds of our youth. I'm curious
what others think.
I'm curious as to whether you will ever think.
--
:"Everythin's better with DoFunny on it."
.
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| User: "Tim" |
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| Title: Re: "Logic is Overrated" - What movies like "Gothica" teach America's youth... |
23 Nov 2003 10:59:31 AM |
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"Denis Giron" <denis_giron@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bac0a2be.0311230537.3fe34a30@posting.google.com...
Greetings.
Last night I saw the movie "Gothica," starring Halle Berry, and I
realized that this sort of movie may be playing a role in our country
heading into a crisis period with regard to the youth's ability to
think critically.
Before I begin my review of the movie, I want to bring up a cartoon
from my youth: Scooby Doo. The old Scooby Doo cartoons always had
aliens, ghosts, monsters and other assorted beings from the realm of
the paranormal or cryptozoological. However (unlike recent remakes of
the cartoon or the recent Scooby Doo movie), it always turned out that
the various aliens and ghosts turned out to be frauds (sometimes the
explanations were a bit humorous, like ghosts being simply made by
flash lights and onion paper, et cetera). When I was a child, I never
understood why the aliens, ghosts, monsters, et cetera, always turned
out to be fake. However, now I understand that the minds behind Scooby
Doo were geniuses. The moral of every single episode was that there is
always a rational explanation. While it didn't sink into my brain
until I was an adult, it was nonetheless noble of the creators/writers
of this show to put forth a cartoon that, in a subtle way, encouraged
critical thinking in children with regard to the paranormal.
These days, no such show exists. Filling in their place, shows like
the X-Files have a constant theme over and over again, and it is one
that is the opposite of that found in every Scooby Doo show. In shows
like the X-Files, and countless other movies and television shows
about the paranormal or the divine, there is always a character who
plays "the skeptic" - who continues to disbelieve even after being
faced with indisputable proof. The skeptic either converts at the end,
or is killed as a result of their foolish disbelief. The moral is that
skepticism and critical thinking are not only wrong and foolhardy, but
often dangerous to your health (exempli gratia: telling oneself there
is no such thing as monsters as the blood-thirsty monster is heading
towards them).
In "Gothica," Halle Berry plays a psychologist who has high praise for
"logic" and rational thinking. One of her patients in a ward
(apparently) for the criminally insane tells her that she does not
listen with he heart; rather she only listens with her brain (at the
time this made no sense to me). As the movie goes on, Berry's
character is possessed by a ghost that forces her to kill her husband,
and she ends up being a patient in the very ward she used to work in!
While she is in her cell, she is tortured by ghosts (and there are
hints that Satan himself may be coming to pay her a visit real soon),
all the while trying to tell herself that she is a raional person, she
believes in "logic," and she certainly does not believe in ghosts.
Ultimately, she accepts that there are ghosts, and these ghosts go on
to help set her free (and some how vindicate her in the crime of
killing her husband).
When she is finally converted (when she sees the light), another
character asks her to "be logical" - to which she replies: "logic is
overrated". That line encapsulated the entire movie. It is later
explained that she has finally learned how to listen (i.e. with her
"heart"). Thus the moral being painfully obvious: skepticism, logic
and critical thinking will lead you only down the path to your own
destruction. It is only when you stop using your "brain" to examine
the evidence and start using your "heart", only when you stop using
your "overrated" logic to attempt to make sense of a situation, will
you be able to see the true nature of reality and save yourself.
Of course, this is only a quick review off the top of my head, but it
bothered me nonetheless. It seems to me that these days people are
demonstrating an ability to think critically less and less often in
this country (though I may be wrong). I wonder if the fact that we
live in a county where more people believe in angels than the theory
of evolution, a country where one of our highest elected leaders cited
"Jesus Christ" as his favorite philosopher, is in part due to the way
mainstream entertainment shapes the minds of our youth. I'm curious
what others think.
-Denis Giron
I would say that affliction affects more than just American youth.
Take a look at this essay and judge for yourself whether or not you think
that the U.S public is being hoodwinked by the current regime.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1120-01.htm
Last night I watched a CNN production concerning the assassination of J.F.K.
The usual story JFK shot by Oswald shot by Ruby. No hint of a conspiracy or
coup d'etat. Maybe I'm paranoid but it seems to me that the whole thing was
staged, a setup; and the world, for the most part, bought it hook, line, and
sinker. Watch the Zubrooder (spelling?) footage of the shooting; notice
where the book depository is and where Kennedy is when he gets shot in the
head. Anyone with even marginal critical skills is going to question how a
bullet could hit JFK from behind and blow the better part of the BACK of his
skull off. Backwards and to the left (the way JFK's head went) from a shot
from behind? *****.
I agree w/ your assertions. Contemporary news broadcasts and coverage are
fiction - are entertainment. All the news that's print to fit. America's
turning into a scary place and people don't appear to notice it or care till
it affects them. By then it's too late. Without the critical skills you
speak of the powers at be will continue to rape the environment and stomp on
individual liberties. Nice world we live in huh?
.
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| User: "Maverick" |
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| Title: Re: "Logic is Overrated" - What movies like "Gothica" teach America's youth... |
23 Nov 2003 12:21:35 PM |
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2003-11-23, 05:59:31 PM, Tim wrote:
"Denis Giron" <denis_giron@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bac0a2be.0311230537.3fe34a30@posting.google.com...
Greetings.
Last night I saw the movie "Gothica," starring Halle Berry, and I
realized that this sort of movie may be playing a role in our
country heading into a crisis period with regard to the youth's
ability to think critically.
Before I begin my review of the movie, I want to bring up a cartoon
from my youth: Scooby Doo. The old Scooby Doo cartoons always had
aliens, ghosts, monsters and other assorted beings from the realm of
the paranormal or cryptozoological. However (unlike recent remakes
of the cartoon or the recent Scooby Doo movie), it always turned
out that the various aliens and ghosts turned out to be frauds
(sometimes the explanations were a bit humorous, like ghosts being
simply made by flash lights and onion paper, et cetera). When I was
a child, I never understood why the aliens, ghosts, monsters, et
cetera, always turned out to be fake. However, now I understand
that the minds behind Scooby Doo were geniuses. The moral of every
single episode was that there is always a rational explanation.
While it didn't sink into my brain until I was an adult, it was
nonetheless noble of the creators/writers of this show to put forth
a cartoon that, in a subtle way, encouraged critical thinking in
children with regard to the paranormal.
These days, no such show exists. Filling in their place, shows like
the X-Files have a constant theme over and over again, and it is one
that is the opposite of that found in every Scooby Doo show. In
shows like the X-Files, and countless other movies and television
shows about the paranormal or the divine, there is always a
character who plays "the skeptic" - who continues to disbelieve
even after being faced with indisputable proof. The skeptic either
converts at the end, or is killed as a result of their foolish
disbelief. The moral is that skepticism and critical thinking are
not only wrong and foolhardy, but often dangerous to your health
(exempli gratia: telling oneself there is no such thing as monsters
as the blood-thirsty monster is heading towards them).
In "Gothica," Halle Berry plays a psychologist who has high praise
for "logic" and rational thinking. One of her patients in a ward
(apparently) for the criminally insane tells her that she does not
listen with he heart; rather she only listens with her brain (at the
time this made no sense to me). As the movie goes on, Berry's
character is possessed by a ghost that forces her to kill her
husband, and she ends up being a patient in the very ward she used
to work in!
While she is in her cell, she is tortured by ghosts (and there are
hints that Satan himself may be coming to pay her a visit real
soon), all the while trying to tell herself that she is a raional
person, she believes in "logic," and she certainly does not believe
in ghosts. Ultimately, she accepts that there are ghosts, and
these ghosts go on to help set her free (and some how vindicate her
in the crime of killing her husband).
When she is finally converted (when she sees the light), another
character asks her to "be logical" - to which she replies: "logic is
overrated". That line encapsulated the entire movie. It is later
explained that she has finally learned how to listen (i.e. with her
"heart"). Thus the moral being painfully obvious: skepticism, logic
and critical thinking will lead you only down the path to your own
destruction. It is only when you stop using your "brain" to examine
the evidence and start using your "heart", only when you stop using
your "overrated" logic to attempt to make sense of a situation, will
you be able to see the true nature of reality and save yourself.
Of course, this is only a quick review off the top of my head, but
it bothered me nonetheless. It seems to me that these days people
are demonstrating an ability to think critically less and less
often in this country (though I may be wrong). I wonder if the fact
that we live in a county where more people believe in angels than
the theory of evolution, a country where one of our highest elected
leaders cited "Jesus Christ" as his favorite philosopher, is in
part due to the way mainstream entertainment shapes the minds of
our youth. I'm curious what others think.
-Denis Giron
I would say that affliction affects more than just American youth.
Take a look at this essay and judge for yourself whether or not you
think that the U.S public is being hoodwinked by the current regime.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1120-01.htm
Last night I watched a CNN production concerning the assassination of
J.F.K. The usual story JFK shot by Oswald shot by Ruby. No hint of a
conspiracy or coup d'etat. Maybe I'm paranoid but it seems to me
that the whole thing was staged, a setup; and the world, for the most
part, bought it hook, line, and sinker. Watch the Zubrooder
(spelling?) footage of the shooting; notice where the book depository
is and where Kennedy is when he gets shot in the head. Anyone with
even marginal critical skills is going to question how a bullet could
hit JFK from behind and blow the better part of the BACK of his skull
off. Backwards and to the left (the way JFK's head went) from a shot
from behind? *****.
But you can see that the exit wound is in JFK's forehead, so that shot
was from behind as far as I understand. However I am still skeptical
about the whole thing too, and while I can't say anything for certain,
I would bet that there is more to this than we think.
.
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| User: "Tim" |
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| Title: Re: "Logic is Overrated" - What movies like "Gothica" teach America's youth... |
28 Nov 2003 12:34:09 PM |
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"Maverick" <insensitive_clod@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:PU6wb.4728$uv1.3974@nntpserver.swip.net...
2003-11-23, 05:59:31 PM, Tim wrote:
"Denis Giron" <denis_giron@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bac0a2be.0311230537.3fe34a30@posting.google.com...
Greetings.
Last night I saw the movie "Gothica," starring Halle Berry, and I
realized that this sort of movie may be playing a role in our
country heading into a crisis period with regard to the youth's
ability to think critically.
Before I begin my review of the movie, I want to bring up a cartoon
from my youth: Scooby Doo. The old Scooby Doo cartoons always had
aliens, ghosts, monsters and other assorted beings from the realm of
the paranormal or cryptozoological. However (unlike recent remakes
of the cartoon or the recent Scooby Doo movie), it always turned
out that the various aliens and ghosts turned out to be frauds
(sometimes the explanations were a bit humorous, like ghosts being
simply made by flash lights and onion paper, et cetera). When I was
a child, I never understood why the aliens, ghosts, monsters, et
cetera, always turned out to be fake. However, now I understand
that the minds behind Scooby Doo were geniuses. The moral of every
single episode was that there is always a rational explanation.
While it didn't sink into my brain until I was an adult, it was
nonetheless noble of the creators/writers of this show to put forth
a cartoon that, in a subtle way, encouraged critical thinking in
children with regard to the paranormal.
These days, no such show exists. Filling in their place, shows like
the X-Files have a constant theme over and over again, and it is one
that is the opposite of that found in every Scooby Doo show. In
shows like the X-Files, and countless other movies and television
shows about the paranormal or the divine, there is always a
character who plays "the skeptic" - who continues to disbelieve
even after being faced with indisputable proof. The skeptic either
converts at the end, or is killed as a result of their foolish
disbelief. The moral is that skepticism and critical thinking are
not only wrong and foolhardy, but often dangerous to your health
(exempli gratia: telling oneself there is no such thing as monsters
as the blood-thirsty monster is heading towards them).
In "Gothica," Halle Berry plays a psychologist who has high praise
for "logic" and rational thinking. One of her patients in a ward
(apparently) for the criminally insane tells her that she does not
listen with he heart; rather she only listens with her brain (at the
time this made no sense to me). As the movie goes on, Berry's
character is possessed by a ghost that forces her to kill her
husband, and she ends up being a patient in the very ward she used
to work in!
While she is in her cell, she is tortured by ghosts (and there are
hints that Satan himself may be coming to pay her a visit real
soon), all the while trying to tell herself that she is a raional
person, she believes in "logic," and she certainly does not believe
in ghosts. Ultimately, she accepts that there are ghosts, and
these ghosts go on to help set her free (and some how vindicate her
in the crime of killing her husband).
When she is finally converted (when she sees the light), another
character asks her to "be logical" - to which she replies: "logic is
overrated". That line encapsulated the entire movie. It is later
explained that she has finally learned how to listen (i.e. with her
"heart"). Thus the moral being painfully obvious: skepticism, logic
and critical thinking will lead you only down the path to your own
destruction. It is only when you stop using your "brain" to examine
the evidence and start using your "heart", only when you stop using
your "overrated" logic to attempt to make sense of a situation, will
you be able to see the true nature of reality and save yourself.
Of course, this is only a quick review off the top of my head, but
it bothered me nonetheless. It seems to me that these days people
are demonstrating an ability to think critically less and less
often in this country (though I may be wrong). I wonder if the fact
that we live in a county where more people believe in angels than
the theory of evolution, a country where one of our highest elected
leaders cited "Jesus Christ" as his favorite philosopher, is in
part due to the way mainstream entertainment shapes the minds of
our youth. I'm curious what others think.
-Denis Giron
I would say that affliction affects more than just American youth.
Take a look at this essay and judge for yourself whether or not you
think that the U.S public is being hoodwinked by the current regime.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/1120-01.htm
Last night I watched a CNN production concerning the assassination of
J.F.K. The usual story JFK shot by Oswald shot by Ruby. No hint of a
conspiracy or coup d'etat. Maybe I'm paranoid but it seems to me
that the whole thing was staged, a setup; and the world, for the most
part, bought it hook, line, and sinker. Watch the Zubrooder
(spelling?) footage of the shooting; notice where the book depository
is and where Kennedy is when he gets shot in the head. Anyone with
even marginal critical skills is going to question how a bullet could
hit JFK from behind and blow the better part of the BACK of his skull
off. Backwards and to the left (the way JFK's head went) from a shot
from behind? *****.
But you can see that the exit wound is in JFK's forehead, so that shot
was from behind as far as I understand. However I am still skeptical
about the whole thing too, and while I can't say anything for certain,
I would bet that there is more to this than we think.
Well, I don't have the film, but recall what Jacky O does - she's out of the
back seat and onto the trunk to get JFK's skull back! If
I agree that there's too many questions. The Warren commission's report
blows smoke right up the ***** of America - home of the free.
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| User: "N. Thornton" |
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| Title: Re: "Logic is Overrated" - What movies like "Gothica" teach America's youth... |
23 Nov 2003 06:03:36 PM |
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(Denis Giron) wrote in message news:<bac0a2be.0311230537.3fe34a30@posting.google.com>...
Greetings.
Last night I saw the movie "Gothica," starring Halle Berry, and I
realized that this sort of movie may be playing a role in our country
heading into a crisis period with regard to the youth's ability to
think critically.
Before I begin my review of the movie, I want to bring up a cartoon
from my youth: Scooby Doo. The old Scooby Doo cartoons always had
aliens, ghosts, monsters and other assorted beings from the realm of
the paranormal or cryptozoological. However (unlike recent remakes of
the cartoon or the recent Scooby Doo movie), it always turned out that
the various aliens and ghosts turned out to be frauds (sometimes the
explanations were a bit humorous, like ghosts being simply made by
flash lights and onion paper, et cetera). When I was a child, I never
understood why the aliens, ghosts, monsters, et cetera, always turned
out to be fake. However, now I understand that the minds behind Scooby
Doo were geniuses. The moral of every single episode was that there is
always a rational explanation. While it didn't sink into my brain
until I was an adult, it was nonetheless noble of the creators/writers
of this show to put forth a cartoon that, in a subtle way, encouraged
critical thinking in children with regard to the paranormal.
These days, no such show exists. Filling in their place, shows like
the X-Files have a constant theme over and over again, and it is one
that is the opposite of that found in every Scooby Doo show. In shows
like the X-Files, and countless other movies and television shows
about the paranormal or the divine, there is always a character who
plays "the skeptic" - who continues to disbelieve even after being
faced with indisputable proof. The skeptic either converts at the end,
or is killed as a result of their foolish disbelief. The moral is that
skepticism and critical thinking are not only wrong and foolhardy, but
often dangerous to your health (exempli gratia: telling oneself there
is no such thing as monsters as the blood-thirsty monster is heading
towards them).
Of course, this is only a quick review off the top of my head, but it
bothered me nonetheless. It seems to me that these days people are
demonstrating an ability to think critically less and less often in
this country (though I may be wrong). I wonder if the fact that we
live in a county where more people believe in angels than the theory
of evolution, a country where one of our highest elected leaders cited
"Jesus Christ" as his favorite philosopher, is in part due to the way
mainstream entertainment shapes the minds of our youth. I'm curious
what others think.
Hi Denis.
This sort of thing is a popular view, but IMHO illogical. Giving one
example or two does not in any way describe the whole picture. People
often criticise what is now while fondly imagining that the past was
better, just because a small percentage of it was. It aint logic.
Regards, NT
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| User: "Indefual" |
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| Title: Re: "Logic is Overrated" - What movies like "Gothica" teach America's youth... |
23 Nov 2003 11:56:40 AM |
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Denis Giron wrote:
The skeptic either converts at the end,
or is killed as a result of their foolish disbelief. The moral is that
skepticism and critical thinking are not only wrong and foolhardy, but
often dangerous to your health (exempli gratia: telling oneself there
is no such thing as monsters as the blood-thirsty monster is heading
towards them).
Of course, there is a point where dogmatic skepticism is bad (the exempli
gratia mentioned above). When I see that on movies and such I think it
makes a good point: you shouldn't be skeptical of a blood thirsty monster
that's heading towards. It's sorta like "no theists in fox holes"... Worry
about after you are certain of your safety.
On the other hand, I never thought about how wide spread it was. Perhaps
your right in that it's potrayed far to much in our media. However, you
can still pull the lesson from it that any type of dogmatic belief is bad.
This is in fact what I do. Sometimes I worry that I'm being too dogmatic
as a--gulp--atheist. So I try to see it from another point of view--assume
something, like the bible, is true. It never works, but it makes me feel
better that I'm not being dogmatic.
Having said that, I am agreeing with your view of the original Scooby Doo.
I wish I had watched more of them as a kid, now.
In the end, I suppose it is possible to be a skeptic and an idiot at the
same time. You can say the same of being a believer, I suppose the
dogmatic part is the qualifier, eh?
-Shawn P. 'Indefual' Conroy
--
"If you don't have a sense of humor,
you probably don't have any sense at all." -Unknown
http://www.indefual.net/
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| User: "S Bibby" |
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| Title: Re: "Logic is Overrated" - What movies like "Gothica" teach America's youth... |
23 Nov 2003 02:23:32 PM |
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Indefual <indefual-@-snowbank-.-ca> writes:
The skeptic either converts at the end,
or is killed as a result of their foolish disbelief. The moral is that
skepticism and critical thinking are not only wrong and foolhardy, but
often dangerous to your health (exempli gratia: telling oneself there
is no such thing as monsters as the blood-thirsty monster is heading
towards them).
Did anyone see that terrible film with genetically modified sharks in
it? "Deep Blue Sea", IIRC. All the scientists were arseholes and died
one by one, and the two people left at the end were the cheery bucolic
who never got much of an education, and a drunken God-addled cook.
On the other hand, I never thought about how wide spread it was. Perhaps
your right in that it's potrayed far to much in our media. However, you
can still pull the lesson from it that any type of dogmatic belief is bad.
This is in fact what I do. Sometimes I worry that I'm being too dogmatic
as a--gulp--atheist. So I try to see it from another point of view--assume
something, like the bible, is true. It never works, but it makes me feel
better that I'm not being dogmatic.
Listening to the radio here these days make me wonder. So many new pop
songs are coming out in Britain now with blatant religious themes and
messages that I'm starting to wonder whether songwriters have got
together and decided that the best way forward in a world of religious
turmoil is not to reject it, but to get everyone else believing it also,
or worse, not to think about it at all. Besides from insipid God-Rockers
Evanescence and their equally insipid allegorical lyrics, there are
currently:
"Born Again" by Starsailor. Goes a little something like "But for the
grace of God..." "I was Born Again, she was Born Again..." etc etc.
"God put a smile on your face": - Coldplay
"Hey, whatever!": - Westlife thinks we should suspend our capacity for
rational thought.
"Father Father Father help us! Need some guidance from above..." Justin
Timberlake sings in Black Eyed Peas' terrible "Where is the Love?" which
was number one here for several fucking weeks.
Sophie Ellis-Bextor knows that cynicism "has it's place", but she's
"really needing guidance now."
"The Golden Path" by the Chemical Brothers is borderline.
A cursory glance at Pink would have you thinking that she's some kind of
rock chick. But no. She can play the tambourine, and believes that "God
is a DJ", and He wants us to shake our arses.
Worst yet, Robbie Williams, the UK's biggest name male singer, is not
only "Loving Angels instead", singing about "Jesus in a camper van" he's
also weary of "Thinking about Thinking."
These are all contemporary songs in Britain today, but I'm sure there
are more I'm missing. Going back a while, there was also "Spirit in the
Sky" which told us that we've "got a friend in Jesus."
If I was a little older I'd be worrying about music actually corrupting
the nation's youth. As it is, this crap's aimed at me too.
--
"I believe in a thing called Love"
Stu
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| User: "William Klee" |
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| Title: Re: "Logic is Overrated" - What movies like "Gothica" teach America's youth... |
25 Nov 2003 07:43:16 PM |
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In article <$nAYQdEEdRw$Ewx3@gaffe.demon.co.uk>, S Bibby
<Stuart@gaffe.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Indefual <indefual-@-snowbank-.-ca> writes:
The skeptic either converts at the end,
or is killed as a result of their foolish disbelief. The moral is that
skepticism and critical thinking are not only wrong and foolhardy, but
often dangerous to your health (exempli gratia: telling oneself there
is no such thing as monsters as the blood-thirsty monster is heading
towards them).
Did anyone see that terrible film with genetically modified sharks in
it? "Deep Blue Sea", IIRC. All the scientists were arseholes and died
one by one, and the two people left at the end were the cheery bucolic
who never got much of an education, and a drunken God-addled cook.
Saw the previews for that: "OK, we've got a process that makes critters
smarter. Let's use it on one of the most highly-evolved killing
machines in the history of the world. Oh, yeah, and let's make the
research center below water level." If I want to watch something stupid
from the git-go, I'll watch a religious channel. Actually, I won't
watch at all.
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| User: "Brian Victor" |
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| Title: Re: "Logic is Overrated" - What movies like "Gothica" teach America's youth... |
23 Nov 2003 03:25:19 PM |
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S Bibby wrote:
[snip]
Besides from insipid God-Rockers Evanescence and their equally insipid
allegorical lyrics
Woah, am I missing something? Granted, I only know what I hear on U.S.
radio, but between "Going Under," "Bring Me To Life," and "My Immortal,"
I'm not aware of anything I could consider religious, or even
particularly allegorical. A brief scan of a lyrics site doesn't do much
to change that. Do you have an example of what you're talking about?
Just curious...
--
Brian
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| User: "S Bibby" |
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| Title: Re: "Logic is Overrated" - What movies like "Gothica" teach America's youth... |
23 Nov 2003 04:11:07 PM |
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Brian Victor <bhv1@psu.edu> writes
S Bibby wrote:
[snip]
Besides from insipid God-Rockers Evanescence and their equally insipid
allegorical lyrics
Woah, am I missing something? Granted, I only know what I hear on U.S.
radio, but between "Going Under," "Bring Me To Life," and "My Immortal,"
I'm not aware of anything I could consider religious, or even
particularly allegorical. A brief scan of a lyrics site doesn't do much
to change that. Do you have an example of what you're talking about?
Just curious...
Not even the titles bother you? Even the name of their debut album is
"Fallen". On Fallen's thank you list, guitarist Ben Moody lists Jesus
Christ first, saying, "All the life left in me is you." Perhaps I should
take my atheistic ears off and listen again, but it all seems pretty
blatant to me.
How about:
"I'm dying, praying, bleeding, and screaming/Am I too lost to be
saved?/Am I too lost?/My God, my tourniquet/Return me to salvation."
Ben Moody in an interview, 2000:
"The message we as a band want to convey more than anything is
simple—God is Love. He is a just God, but a gracious God."
He added in that interview:
"We hope to express in our music that Christianity is not a rigid list
of rules to follow only out of fear of an unseen deity who will strike
you down at any given moment if you fail. I am a Christian. I still have
fears. I still have pain. I still have sorrow. I wouldn't be alive if I
didn't. The beautiful thing about my relationship with God is that he
understands all that and he has shown me what life is really for. We
write songs about things that happen in life. All of our songs are not
about rainbows and sunshine. Sometimes it rains. Who can we help if we
won't even talk about it?"
They now claim they are a secular band, but when you consider the things
they sing about and that they came up through the 'underground' Xtian
rock scene and signed to a label belonging to distributor Provident, who
apparently have a lot of Xtian acts, I'm not buying it.
--
"And I'm not buying it"
Stu
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| User: "Brian Victor" |
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| Title: Re: "Logic is Overrated" - What movies like "Gothica" teach America's youth... |
23 Nov 2003 04:30:59 PM |
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S Bibby wrote:
Brian Victor <bhv1@psu.edu> writes
S Bibby wrote:
[snip]
Besides from insipid God-Rockers Evanescence and their equally insipid
allegorical lyrics
Woah, am I missing something? Granted, I only know what I hear on U.S.
radio, but between "Going Under," "Bring Me To Life," and "My Immortal,"
I'm not aware of anything I could consider religious, or even
particularly allegorical. A brief scan of a lyrics site doesn't do much
to change that. Do you have an example of what you're talking about?
Not even the titles bother you? Even the name of their debut album is
"Fallen".
I never considered that to be a religious reference, but rather perhaps
fitting in the theme of "Going Under" (or vice-versa).
In Fallen's thank you list, guitarist Ben Moody lists Jesus Christ
first, saying, "All the life left in me is you." Perhaps I should take
my atheistic ears off and listen again, but it all seems pretty
blatant to me.
So he's Christian... but if I didn't like music performed by Christians,
I'd listen to a lot less music. ;)
"I'm dying, praying, bleeding, and screaming/Am I too lost to be
saved?/Am I too lost?/My God, my tourniquet/Return me to salvation."
OK, yeah, that's pretty blatant. I hadn't come across that before. But
I still think I'll enjoy their music. Though I can't in good conscience
compare them to Dream Theater, there is a parallel; it seems generally
more of a fantasy world than a religious one that they both portray.
(But don't talk to me about that "6 Degrees of Inner Turbulence" trash.)
Ben Moody in an interview, 2000:
"The message we as a band want to convey more than anything is
simple?God is Love. He is a just God, but a gracious God."
Was that about the same band? On the other side of the coin, you have:
"We're actually high on the Christian charts," says Ben Moody in the EW
article, "and I'm like, 'What the f--- are we even doing there?'"
http://www.cmcentral.com/news/1271.html
They now claim they are a secular band, but when you consider the things
they sing about and that they came up through the 'underground' Xtian
rock scene and signed to a label belonging to distributor Provident, who
apparently have a lot of Xtian acts, I'm not buying it.
I can see your point. It just surprised me because it had never
occurred to me, and I'm usually the first to be hypersensitive to
gratuitous Christian references in music.
--
Brian
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| User: "spakka" |
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| Title: Re: "Logic is Overrated" - What movies like "Gothica" teach America's youth... |
23 Nov 2003 02:52:10 PM |
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On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 12:56:40 -0500, Indefual <indefual-@-snowbank-.-ca> wrote:
Denis Giron wrote:
The skeptic either converts at the end,
or is killed as a result of their foolish disbelief. The moral is that
skepticism and critical thinking are not only wrong and foolhardy, but
often dangerous to your health (exempli gratia: telling oneself there
is no such thing as monsters as the blood-thirsty monster is heading
towards them).
Of course, there is a point where dogmatic skepticism is bad (the exempli
gratia mentioned above). When I see that on movies and such I think it
makes a good point: you shouldn't be skeptical of a blood thirsty monster
that's heading towards.
This is to accept the believers' caricature of a skeptic. A real life
skeptic would accept 'monster' as a working hypothesis after seeing one
pull off few teenagers' heads, etc. Skeptics are skeptical because
they have not been provided with this sort of evidence.
In the end, I suppose it is possible to be a skeptic and an idiot at the
same time. You can say the same of being a believer, I suppose the
dogmatic part is the qualifier, eh?
No. Believing in stuff without evidence is inherently stupid.
(alt.atheism put back)
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| User: "Peter Webb" |
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| Title: Re: "Logic is Overrated" - What movies like "Gothica" teach America's youth... |
23 Nov 2003 09:07:20 PM |
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I enjoyed your little essay very much; while I have not seen Gothica, your
broad points seem very valid.
The treatment by the media of science and critical thinking reflects a more
general anti-science, anti-logic cultural change. Environmentalism seems to
becoming a branch of religion rather than science (Gaia and all that); you
constantly hear people on TV talking about Genetically Modified food who
clearly know nothing about genetics, people talking about renewable energy
who don't seem to know the difference between energy and power;
anti-Globalisation demonstrators who seem to have no interest in or
knowledge of economics.
None of this excuses the media - they don't just reflect popular opinion,
they also help mould it. When I was growing up (in the 60s and 70s) the
media promoted an idea that technology and science would make the world a
better place - which of course they have. Now the media is helping spread
the ideas that technology has made the world a worse place, that trading
with poor countries is to their disadvantage, and that oil companies are
supressing technologies which allow cars to run on water ... as we sow, so
shall we reap.
Very sad.
"Denis Giron" <denis_giron@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bac0a2be.0311230537.3fe34a30@posting.google.com...
Greetings.
Last night I saw the movie "Gothica," starring Halle Berry, and I
realized that this sort of movie may be playing a role in our country
heading into a crisis period with regard to the youth's ability to
think critically.
Before I begin my review of the movie, I want to bring up a cartoon
from my youth: Scooby Doo. The old Scooby Doo cartoons always had
aliens, ghosts, monsters and other assorted beings from the realm of
the paranormal or cryptozoological. However (unlike recent remakes of
the cartoon or the recent Scooby Doo movie), it always turned out that
the various aliens and ghosts turned out to be frauds (sometimes the
explanations were a bit humorous, like ghosts being simply made by
flash lights and onion paper, et cetera). When I was a child, I never
understood why the aliens, ghosts, monsters, et cetera, always turned
out to be fake. However, now I understand that the minds behind Scooby
Doo were geniuses. The moral of every single episode was that there is
always a rational explanation. While it didn't sink into my brain
until I was an adult, it was nonetheless noble of the creators/writers
of this show to put forth a cartoon that, in a subtle way, encouraged
critical thinking in children with regard to the paranormal.
These days, no such show exists. Filling in their place, shows like
the X-Files have a constant theme over and over again, and it is one
that is the opposite of that found in every Scooby Doo show. In shows
like the X-Files, and countless other movies and television shows
about the paranormal or the divine, there is always a character who
plays "the skeptic" - who continues to disbelieve even after being
faced with indisputable proof. The skeptic either converts at the end,
or is killed as a result of their foolish disbelief. The moral is that
skepticism and critical thinking are not only wrong and foolhardy, but
often dangerous to your health (exempli gratia: telling oneself there
is no such thing as monsters as the blood-thirsty monster is heading
towards them).
In "Gothica," Halle Berry plays a psychologist who has high praise for
"logic" and rational thinking. One of her patients in a ward
(apparently) for the criminally insane tells her that she does not
listen with he heart; rather she only listens with her brain (at the
time this made no sense to me). As the movie goes on, Berry's
character is possessed by a ghost that forces her to kill her husband,
and she ends up being a patient in the very ward she used to work in!
While she is in her cell, she is tortured by ghosts (and there are
hints that Satan himself may be coming to pay her a visit real soon),
all the while trying to tell herself that she is a raional person, she
believes in "logic," and she certainly does not believe in ghosts.
Ultimately, she accepts that there are ghosts, and these ghosts go on
to help set her free (and some how vindicate her in the crime of
killing her husband).
When she is finally converted (when she sees the light), another
character asks her to "be logical" - to which she replies: "logic is
overrated". That line encapsulated the entire movie. It is later
explained that she has finally learned how to listen (i.e. with her
"heart"). Thus the moral being painfully obvious: skepticism, logic
and critical thinking will lead you only down the path to your own
destruction. It is only when you stop using your "brain" to examine
the evidence and start using your "heart", only when you stop using
your "overrated" logic to attempt to make sense of a situation, will
you be able to see the true nature of reality and save yourself.
Of course, this is only a quick review off the top of my head, but it
bothered me nonetheless. It seems to me that these days people are
demonstrating an ability to think critically less and less often in
this country (though I may be wrong). I wonder if the fact that we
live in a county where more people believe in angels than the theory
of evolution, a country where one of our highest elected leaders cited
"Jesus Christ" as his favorite philosopher, is in part due to the way
mainstream entertainment shapes the minds of our youth. I'm curious
what others think.
-Denis Giron
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| User: "Rick Russell" |
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| Title: Re: "Logic is Overrated" - What movies like "Gothica" teach America's youth... |
24 Nov 2003 09:37:38 AM |
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I find this essay by Paul Lutus to be on-point:
http://www.arachnoid.com/lutusp/crashcourse.html
In a world of "idea consumers", as Mr. Lutus puts it, creative problem
solving skills and critical thinking have no value. No philosophy is
inherently better or more utilitarian than any other
philiosophy. "Science" and "Mysticism" are on the same level, just
like Cheetos and Pringles. Belief becomes an issue of consumer
preference.
Rick R.
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| User: "Bobby D. Bryant" |
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| Title: Re: "Logic is Overrated" - What movies like "Gothica" teach America's youth... |
23 Nov 2003 07:59:50 AM |
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On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 05:37:30 -0800, Denis Giron wrote:
<snip>
These days, no such show exists. Filling in their place, shows like the
X-Files have a constant theme over and over again
Yeah, I like the ep where Scully wants to run a vial of stuff down to the
lab to see whether it's ectoplasm. Presumably she has an assay for
'supernatural'.
<snip>
Of course, this is only a quick review off the top of my head, but it
bothered me nonetheless. It seems to me that these days people are
demonstrating an ability to think critically less and less often in this
country (though I may be wrong). I wonder if the fact that we live in a
county where more people believe in angels than the theory of evolution,
a country where one of our highest elected leaders cited "Jesus Christ"
as his favorite philosopher, is in part due to the way mainstream
entertainment shapes the minds of our youth. I'm curious what others
think.
I think similarly. In particular, discussions on talk.origins seem to
suggest that lots of creationists get their (mis)understanding of science
from _The X Files_.
--
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Re: "Logic is Overrated" - What movies like "Gothica" teach America'syouth... |
24 Nov 2003 09:56:08 AM |
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"Bobby D. Bryant" wrote:
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 05:37:30 -0800, Denis Giron wrote:
<snip>
These days, no such show exists. Filling in their place, shows like the
X-Files have a constant theme over and over again
Yeah, I like the ep where Scully wants to run a vial of stuff down to the
lab to see whether it's ectoplasm. Presumably she has an assay for
'supernatural'.
<snip>
Of course, this is only a quick review off the top of my head, but it
bothered me nonetheless. It seems to me that these days people are
demonstrating an ability to think critically less and less often in this
country (though I may be wrong). I wonder if the fact that we live in a
county where more people believe in angels than the theory of evolution,
a country where one of our highest elected leaders cited "Jesus Christ"
as his favorite philosopher, is in part due to the way mainstream
entertainment shapes the minds of our youth. I'm curious what others
think.
I think similarly. In particular, discussions on talk.origins seem to
suggest that lots of creationists get their (mis)understanding of science
from _The X Files_.
That *ping* you just heard was my irony meter pegging out again. Ah, well,
back to the shop.
--
Gregory Gadow
techbear@serv.net
http://www.serv.net/~techbear
"If you make yourself a sheep, the wolves will eat you."
-- Benjamin Franklin
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| User: "Nakas" |
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| Title: Re: "Logic is Overrated" - What movies like "Gothica" teach America's youth... |
23 Nov 2003 11:16:18 AM |
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Yea, I see a lot of that on the discovery channel. It passes itself off as
an educational channel, but half the time I turn it on it's talking about
aliens and ghosts. I guess the producers don't think the real world is
entertaining enough.
"Denis Giron" <denis_giron@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bac0a2be.0311230537.3fe34a30@posting.google.com...
Greetings.
Last night I saw the movie "Gothica," starring Halle Berry, and I
realized that this sort of movie may be playing a role in our country
heading into a crisis period with regard to the youth's ability to
think critically.
Before I begin my review of the movie, I want to bring up a cartoon
from my youth: Scooby Doo. The old Scooby Doo cartoons always had
aliens, ghosts, monsters and other assorted beings from the realm of
the paranormal or cryptozoological. However (unlike recent remakes of
the cartoon or the recent Scooby Doo movie), it always turned out that
the various aliens and ghosts turned out to be frauds (sometimes the
explanations were a bit humorous, like ghosts being simply made by
flash lights and onion paper, et cetera). When I was a child, I never
understood why the aliens, ghosts, monsters, et cetera, always turned
out to be fake. However, now I understand that the minds behind Scooby
Doo were geniuses. The moral of every single episode was that there is
always a rational explanation. While it didn't sink into my brain
until I was an adult, it was nonetheless noble of the creators/writers
of this show to put forth a cartoon that, in a subtle way, encouraged
critical thinking in children with regard to the paranormal.
These days, no such show exists. Filling in their place, shows like
the X-Files have a constant theme over and over again, and it is one
that is the opposite of that found in every Scooby Doo show. In shows
like the X-Files, and countless other movies and television shows
about the paranormal or the divine, there is always a character who
plays "the skeptic" - who continues to disbelieve even after being
faced with indisputable proof. The skeptic either converts at the end,
or is killed as a result of their foolish disbelief. The moral is that
skepticism and critical thinking are not only wrong and foolhardy, but
often dangerous to your health (exempli gratia: telling oneself there
is no such thing as monsters as the blood-thirsty monster is heading
towards them).
In "Gothica," Halle Berry plays a psychologist who has high praise for
"logic" and rational thinking. One of her patients in a ward
(apparently) for the criminally insane tells her that she does not
listen with he heart; rather she only listens with her brain (at the
time this made no sense to me). As the movie goes on, Berry's
character is possessed by a ghost that forces her to kill her husband,
and she ends up being a patient in the very ward she used to work in!
While she is in her cell, she is tortured by ghosts (and there are
hints that Satan himself may be coming to pay her a visit real soon),
all the while trying to tell herself that she is a raional person, she
believes in "logic," and she certainly does not believe in ghosts.
Ultimately, she accepts that there are ghosts, and these ghosts go on
to help set her free (and some how vindicate her in the crime of
killing her husband).
When she is finally converted (when she sees the light), another
character asks her to "be logical" - to which she replies: "logic is
overrated". That line encapsulated the entire movie. It is later
explained that she has finally learned how to listen (i.e. with her
"heart"). Thus the moral being painfully obvious: skepticism, logic
and critical thinking will lead you only down the path to your own
destruction. It is only when you stop using your "brain" to examine
the evidence and start using your "heart", only when you stop using
your "overrated" logic to attempt to make sense of a situation, will
you be able to see the true nature of reality and save yourself.
Of course, this is only a quick review off the top of my head, but it
bothered me nonetheless. It seems to me that these days people are
demonstrating an ability to think critically less and less often in
this country (though I may be wrong). I wonder if the fact that we
live in a county where more people believe in angels than the theory
of evolution, a country where one of our highest elected leaders cited
"Jesus Christ" as his favorite philosopher, is in part due to the way
mainstream entertainment shapes the minds of our youth. I'm curious
what others think.
-Denis Giron
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| User: "Igor" |
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| Title: Re: "Logic is Overrated" - What movies like "Gothica" teach America's youth... |
23 Nov 2003 06:42:38 PM |
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On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 17:16:18 GMT, "Nakas" <nakas@comcast.net> wrote:
Yea, I see a lot of that on the discovery channel. It passes itself off as
an educational channel, but half the time I turn it on it's talking about
aliens and ghosts. I guess the producers don't think the real world is
entertaining enough.
I concur and I think alot of that started when Disney took over.
About the only decent program on discovery any more seems to be
Mythbusters.
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