| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Stef" |
| Date: |
14 Dec 2003 08:54:31 AM |
| Object: |
looking for meetings in Seattle |
On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 08:52:12 +0000, dougal <garyridgeway48@greenriver.com>
wrote in message <dhkltvkp83vf5d44lu1b4g6i80gm9u0mad@4ax.com>:
On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:45:31 +0200, "Kim"
<kim.brady@the-brady-bunch-of-fuckheads.com> wrote:
On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 11:31:23 GMT, "Kaoru \"Motenai\" Saotome"
<kaoru@coldmail.co.jp> wrote in message
<nv0etvkm440e2kr4t6ci7flef2dv877vhi@kao.ru>:
On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 12:56:57 +0200, "Pre-teen girls"
<adolf@does-it-doggy-style.com> wrote:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 16:53:29 +0000, wrote in message
<6b24tvs35m04p2n6i471f0o3qfq1ehcnqs@4ax.com>:
On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 18:25:01 +0200, "Two tits on a turd"
<arna@ist.lovely.in.the.springtime.eva> wrote:
well photos don't smell.
and if their tits look good... <jerking off>
Good as in "flat", you mean?
you never fucked and sucked a pre-teen girl yet?
Got pics? <g>
KS
I read recently on the BBC news site that the Brits are considering a hard
drive amnesty for people who have downloaded child porn.
They'll be let off on a caution if they produce their hard drives. They'll
also get counselling and be entered on the sex offenders register.
I think not.
If you are dumb enough to not destroy yer hard drive then you deserve
punishment.
Maybe there should be an alt.recovery.paedophiles group.
modern society is pretty screwed up. there's absolutely nothing wrong with
fucking a 5 year old girl. that's my viewpoint.
it's really quite impossible to _PROVE_ a set of moral principles as being
_ABSOLUTELY_ right and correct.
conventions are not binding. a society can pass all kinds of laws stating
that they are binding, but it means nothing. if you don't like their ideas,
you are simply in a state of war with them.
if you wage war and win, then your view prevails. if they win, then their
view does. it's as simple as that. but there is no such thing here as
MORALLY RIGHT or MORALLY CORRECT.
I guarantee you now that if Germany had won WWII, that is beaten Britain and
occupied her and Russia and the USA and you were all under NAZI control, you
would have been educated according to their views and most of society would
believe them to be correct and have no problem with killing Jews in public
whenever they are found.
that is how easy it is to manipulate people. there are rare people like me
who can comprehend this and stand outside of society and look upon society
with clinical detachment.
most people are not clinically detached from society. they are enmeshed in
it and it's arbitrary rules. they don't consider that things could be any
other way than how it is.
But arguments can be advanced. Rational arguments to support any objective
you like. And if those arguments form the mainstream of society, most will
be quite content to go along with it for the sake of a harmonious society.
Fact is that human society is incredibly intolerant of divergent opinions.
Modern society has latched onto sex as being a big deal. Pedophilia in
particular is a huge deal. Ironically enough, back in Victorian times, many
pornographic images were made of very young children fornicating.
So times and perceptions of what is acceptable change. Does not lend any
more "moral" weight to the opinions.
I don't think having sex with children is a big deal. I don't think it
necessarily harms them.
I'm still waiting for scientific proof of that assertion. I'm willing to
take part in experiments to that end.
--
Adolf Hitler
Der Fuhrer
*******************************
Read the Official ATJ FAQ at the resource site for ATJ:
http://www.atjfaq.com
*******************************
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| User: "staamfa" |
|
| Title: Re: looking for meetings in Seattle |
14 Dec 2003 03:40:55 PM |
|
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"Stef" <
| I guarantee you now that if Germany had won WWII, that is beaten Britain
and
| occupied her and Russia and the USA and you were all under NAZI control,
you
| would have been educated according to their views and most of society
would
| believe them to be correct and have no problem with killing Jews in public
| whenever they are found.
Enculturation is a wonderful thing, except when it's not.
The acculturation that goes in and around AA meetings is just as
interesting. As is the role individual A's play in the process.
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| User: "Douglas D. Anderson" |
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| Title: Re: looking for meetings in Seattle |
14 Dec 2003 04:27:05 PM |
|
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"staamfa" <staampfa@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:2W4Db.5579$a44.3982@okepread04...
"Stef" <
| I guarantee you now that if Germany had won WWII, that is beaten Britain
and
| occupied her and Russia and the USA and you were all under NAZI control,
you
| would have been educated according to their views and most of society
would
| believe them to be correct and have no problem with killing Jews in public
| whenever they are found.
Enculturation is a wonderful thing, except when it's not.
The acculturation that goes in and around AA meetings is just as
interesting. As is the role individual A's play in the process.
There never was any "Nazi control" even in Germany, as Hitler privately
complained- it was more like a forest fire who's only boundary was
where the trees ended. E.g., Gestapo and SD were under independent
and highly competitive leadership, and were known to routinely arrest
members of the other organization purely for the sake of annoyance and
harassment, and Hitler had no direct control over there activities except
to direct their general focus on the Jews and political enemies. The armed
forces, the Wehrmacht, was aloof, and only cooperated with uniformed
SS where that conformed to it's own objectives of continuing WW I. In
short, there was no Nazi control, just a pack of ravenous wolves driven
by hunger. This phenomena was unique to the Germany of that era, and
would never have spread into the English speaking countries. During the
McCarthy era, there was a great paranoid fear that Communism would
spread into the English speaking world, which was actually absurd, and
the worst that has come of that is a bunch of Marxist Democrats, who's
only followers are a bunch of naive college students and welfare bums.
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| User: "staamfa" |
|
| Title: Re: looking for meetings in Seattle |
14 Dec 2003 09:58:22 PM |
|
|
"Douglas D. Anderson" <
| >
| > "Stef" <
| > | I guarantee you now that if Germany had won WWII, that is beaten
Britain
| > and
| > | occupied her and Russia and the USA and you were all under NAZI
control,
| > you
| > | would have been educated according to their views and most of society
| > would
| > | believe them to be correct and have no problem with killing Jews in
public
| > | whenever they are found.
| >
| >
| > Enculturation is a wonderful thing, except when it's not.
| >
| > The acculturation that goes in and around AA meetings is just as
| > interesting. As is the role individual A's play in the process.
| >
| >
|
| There never was any "Nazi control" even in Germany,
Thanks but that's not exactly what we were discussing.
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| User: "Lord Haw Haw" |
|
| Title: Germany has occupied Iraq and it's another great victory for the Third Reich |
15 Dec 2003 08:01:26 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 21:58:22 -0600, "staamfa" <staampfa@yahoo.com> wrote in
message <chaDb.8018$a44.4629@okepread04>:
"Douglas D. Anderson" <
| > "Stef" <
| > | I guarantee you now that if Germany had won WWII, that is beaten
Britain
| > and
| > | occupied her and Russia and the USA and you were all under NAZI
control,
| > you
| > | would have been educated according to their views and most of society
| > would
| > | believe them to be correct and have no problem with killing Jews in
public
| > | whenever they are found.
| > Enculturation is a wonderful thing, except when it's not.
| > The acculturation that goes in and around AA meetings is just as
| > interesting. As is the role individual A's play in the process.
| There never was any "Nazi control" even in Germany,
Thanks but that's not exactly what we were discussing.
if you hang around atj long enough, you'll get used to DDA's irrational
outbursts filled with dubious information.
***
Hello, this is Jairmany calling. Haw haw haw.
***
On this day in history, we have beaten the ploughshares into swords! With
our iron fist we have once again smashed all opposition!
Once again we show to the world that we are the Master Race! All those who
doubt us now will be made to bear the yoke we place on the necks of the
Jews!
We call on all true Germans to wage total war on all enemies of the Third
Reich!
Juden Raus!
--
Adolf Hitler
Der Fuhrer
*******************************
Read the Official ATJ FAQ at the resource site for ATJ:
http://www.atjfaq.com
*******************************
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| User: "Vanilla Gorilla Monkey Boy" |
|
| Title: Re: looking for meetings in Seattle |
17 Dec 2003 11:08:28 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 16:54:31 +0200, "Stef"
<the.berk@fun-things.to.do.with.clay> wrote in alt.tasteless.jokes:
if you wage war and win, then your view prevails. if they win, then their
view does. it's as simple as that. but there is no such thing here as
MORALLY RIGHT or MORALLY CORRECT.
This is the most stupid thing I've seen all week, but it's only
Wednesday. How about if I cut your throat, rape your dead body, steal
your car, and burn all your family alive? I'll just tell the
authorities that you said it was OK.
--
V.G.
"People are more violently opposed to fur than leather, because it is easier to harrass
rich women than it is motorcycle gangs." - Bumper Sticker
(This sig file contains not less than 80% recycled SPAM)
Sarcasm is my sword, Apathy is my shield.
.
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| User: "Nellie Rumery" |
|
| Title: Re: looking for meetings in Seattle |
18 Dec 2003 06:28:42 PM |
|
|
"Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)" <vgorilla@pobox.alaska.net> wrote in message
news:3ed2uv84r303e96sdpu86nqk50ufmdkji1@4ax.com...
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 16:54:31 +0200, "Stef"
<the.berk@fun-things.to.do.with.clay> wrote in alt.tasteless.jokes:
if you wage war and win, then your view prevails. if they win, then their
view does. it's as simple as that. but there is no such thing here as
MORALLY RIGHT or MORALLY CORRECT.
This is the most stupid thing I've seen all week, but it's only
Wednesday. How about if I cut your throat, rape your dead body, steal
your car, and burn all your family alive? I'll just tell the
authorities that you said it was OK.
--
V.G.
"People are more violently opposed to fur than leather, because it is
easier to harrass
rich women than it is motorcycle gangs." - Bumper Sticker
(This sig file contains not less than 80% recycled SPAM)
Sarcasm is my sword, Apathy is my shield.
You must be a clintonian Judge. Make him say " I love you man" while you do
it. then it would be okay
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| User: "Bill D." |
|
| Title: moral code |
19 Dec 2003 03:31:30 AM |
|
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On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 00:28:42 GMT, "Nellie Rumery" <slrnmr@adelphia.net>
wrote in message <_CrEb.636$Vv2.323834@news1.news.adelphia.net>:
"Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)" <vgorilla@pobox.alaska.net> wrote in message
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 16:54:31 +0200, "Stef"
<the.berk@fun-things.to.do.with.clay> wrote in alt.tasteless.jokes:
if you wage war and win, then your view prevails. if they win, then their
view does. it's as simple as that. but there is no such thing here as
MORALLY RIGHT or MORALLY CORRECT.
This is the most stupid thing I've seen all week, but it's only
Wednesday. How about if I cut your throat, rape your dead body, steal
your car, and burn all your family alive? I'll just tell the
authorities that you said it was OK.
You must be a clintonian Judge. Make him say " I love you man" while you do
it. then it would be okay
what's "okay"? what's "wrong"?
I will tell you. They are all completely subjective judgements.
It's how we perceive events.
there is no such thing as "right" or "wrong". they simply do not exist.
so go wipe out 50 billion star systems. nobody can judge you as being "in
the wrong".
they can just attack and kill you because they personally disagree with your
behaviour for whatever reasons they may care to have.
one day someone pokes me in the eye. that offends me. a week later, i kill
their dog. a week after that, i destroy their car. a week later, i burn
their house down. finally i beat the person to death with a club.
what's wrong with that?
he should not have poked me in the eye. his actions motivated me to exact my
revenge upon him.
did i harm you by burning him to the ground? no. then why do you care what i
do to him?
did Ian Huntley attack and kill my daughters? no. so i don't care whether he
rots in jail or not. let those who do care, personally take action, rather
than "the law".
--
Adolf Hitler
Der Führer
*******************************
Read the Official ATJ FAQ at the resource site for ATJ:
http://www.atjfaq.com
*******************************
.
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| User: "William Barwell" |
|
| Title: Re: moral code |
19 Dec 2003 01:01:40 PM |
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Bill D. wrote:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 00:28:42 GMT, "Nellie Rumery" <slrnmr@adelphia.net>
wrote in message <_CrEb.636$Vv2.323834@news1.news.adelphia.net>:
"Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)" <vgorilla@pobox.alaska.net> wrote in
message
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 16:54:31 +0200, "Stef"
<the.berk@fun-things.to.do.with.clay> wrote in alt.tasteless.jokes:
if you wage war and win, then your view prevails. if they win, then
their view does. it's as simple as that. but there is no such thing here
as MORALLY RIGHT or MORALLY CORRECT.
This is the most stupid thing I've seen all week, but it's only
Wednesday. How about if I cut your throat, rape your dead body, steal
your car, and burn all your family alive? I'll just tell the
authorities that you said it was OK.
You must be a clintonian Judge. Make him say " I love you man" while you
do it. then it would be okay
what's "okay"? what's "wrong"?
I will tell you. They are all completely subjective judgements.
It's how we perceive events.
No, it is an argument about values.
Morals are simply how values are implemented.
Or should be.
Some people make the mistake of making ritual
a substitute for values, with the problem that
values sometimes are forgotten in the name of keeping ritual
pure and unchanged.
What are your values and how do we implement them?
This is what morals are.
Ethics is the personal way morals are implemented.
Morals may well be bad in society, yet people may have higher morals that
are thwarted because society may prevent them from implementing their
morals.
Take the South and racism and Jim Crow laws.
The South, Southern civilization, valued racism
and segregation. This had to be integrated with biblcal
values, which were proclaimed valuable but were less valuable
to many than racism. Many people did not value racism,
but were more or less kept quiet by the majority through fear of
ostracization, destruction of businesses, criticism and even fear
of personal saftey by the more violent racists.
The ideals of democracy, rights for all and other high sounded
ideals was not valued, though lip service was given in an often
manipulative manner to such ideals.
Thus morals had a public face, and a more solid unwritten
face, enforcing the real value of most Southerners.
As racism became more extreme, witness the lynchings
of pre-WWII America, and more obviously unfair, the extreme racists lost
because their real value system was not shared totally with
the majority of Southeners.
If one is to understand morals, one must understand values.
If one values honesty highly, one will have a personal
ethics based on not lying, and morals, our interactions with others will
value truth telling and will not tolerate liars. The problems
occur when one has a value system that is mostly not held
by society as a whole, liars can easily lie and win re-election,
liars gain promotion, liars can cheat millions and get a wrist slap by the
SEC.
Society at the top, those who make the laws and supposedly
enforce them, may have a far different real value system and
morals than stated morals and values from a given individual.
Religion is the same thing.
We all 'value' truth.
But not all value the actual truth.
Some think playing word games and logic chopping is acceptable
even when thet does volence to truth.
Things are often not subjective at all.
But you can make all subjective by abandoning real
intellectual honesty, rationality and thus real truth.
Its all a matter of what you truely value.
Truth in all its awful glory, or comforting myths.
What you truely value is shown by how you act.
Not what one says.
The problem with morality and religion is,
religion has problems with truth.
Truth is not actually valued, comforting myth that
claims simple belief guarantees immortality in heaven
is more valued. Truth and facts and rationality
will be readily sacrificed to comfortable belief.
So...
What are YOUR values?
How many here have ever thought about that?
How does that affect your presonal ethics, your
morality, your thoughts about the general public
morality that may not measure up to yours?
there is no such thing as "right" or "wrong". they simply do not exist.
so go wipe out 50 billion star systems. nobody can judge you as being "in
the wrong".
they can just attack and kill you because they personally disagree with
your behaviour for whatever reasons they may care to have.
one day someone pokes me in the eye. that offends me. a week later, i kill
their dog. a week after that, i destroy their car. a week later, i burn
their house down. finally i beat the person to death with a club.
what's wrong with that?
he should not have poked me in the eye. his actions motivated me to exact
my revenge upon him.
did i harm you by burning him to the ground? no. then why do you care what
i do to him?
did Ian Huntley attack and kill my daughters? no. so i don't care whether
he rots in jail or not. let those who do care, personally take action,
rather than "the law".
--
Bush! Chimp or chump?
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "Buuucog" |
|
| Title: Re: moral code |
20 Dec 2003 03:57:50 AM |
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On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 13:01:40 -0600, William Barwell
<wbarwell@mungged.mylinuxisp.com> wrote in message
<3fe34925$0$126$811e409b@news.mylinuxisp.com>:
Bill D. wrote:
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 00:28:42 GMT, "Nellie Rumery" <slrnmr@adelphia.net>
wrote in message <_CrEb.636$Vv2.323834@news1.news.adelphia.net>:
"Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)" <vgorilla@pobox.alaska.net> wrote in
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 16:54:31 +0200, "Stef"
<the.berk@fun-things.to.do.with.clay> wrote in alt.tasteless.jokes:
if you wage war and win, then your view prevails. if they win, then
their view does. it's as simple as that. but there is no such thing here
as MORALLY RIGHT or MORALLY CORRECT.
This is the most stupid thing I've seen all week, but it's only
Wednesday. How about if I cut your throat, rape your dead body, steal
your car, and burn all your family alive? I'll just tell the
authorities that you said it was OK.
You must be a clintonian Judge. Make him say " I love you man" while you
do it. then it would be okay
what's "okay"? what's "wrong"?
I will tell you. They are all completely subjective judgements.
It's how we perceive events.
No, it is an argument about values.
a rose by any other name.
value, moral, same thing.
values are completely arbitrary and change all the time.
Morals are simply how values are implemented.
Or should be.
....yer confused...
Things are often not subjective at all.
But you can make all subjective by abandoning real
intellectual honesty, rationality and thus real truth.
there are no absolutes and therefore there is no yardstick to measure
anything by.
all we can do is measure one changeable thing against another changeable
thing.
we can never arrive at "true morals" or "true laws".
if you tell me that murder is wrong, I will contradict you flat out.
Theft is also not wrong.
War is not wrong.
Pedophilia is not wrong.
Rape is not wrong.
It is impossible to find something which is "wrong". it does not exist.
The problem with morality and religion is,
religion has problems with truth.
Truth is not actually valued, comforting myth that
claims simple belief guarantees immortality in heaven
is more valued. Truth and facts and rationality
will be readily sacrificed to comfortable belief.
reality is truth. but since we don't actually know the full reality of our
situation, we are simply stumbling around in the dark.
that's why man has invented so much horseshit.
What are YOUR values?
play the game to win. by any means.
--
Adolf Hitler
Der Führer
*******************************
Read the Official ATJ FAQ at the resource site for ATJ:
http://www.atjfaq.com
*******************************
.
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| User: "dougal" |
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| Title: Re: moral code |
26 Dec 2003 09:53:56 PM |
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On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 11:31:30 +0200, "Bill D." <ewfew@ffkfkfr.fff>
wrote:
did Ian Huntley attack and kill my daughters? no. so i don't care whether he
rots in jail or not. let those who do care, personally take action, rather
than "the law".
Nah. He merely attempted the worst nosebleed clean up in history
which resulted in the death of 2 girls.
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| User: "Vanguish mine enemies" |
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| Title: Re: looking for meetings in Seattle |
18 Dec 2003 05:35:13 AM |
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On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:08:28 -0900, "Vanilla Gorilla (Monkey Boy)"
<vgorilla@pobox.alaska.net> wrote in message
<3ed2uv84r303e96sdpu86nqk50ufmdkji1@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 16:54:31 +0200, "Stef"
<the.berk@fun-things.to.do.with.clay> wrote in alt.tasteless.jokes:
if you wage war and win, then your view prevails. if they win, then their
view does. it's as simple as that. but there is no such thing here as
MORALLY RIGHT or MORALLY CORRECT.
This is the most stupid thing I've seen all week, but it's only
Wednesday. How about if I cut your throat, rape your dead body, steal
your car, and burn all your family alive? I'll just tell the
authorities that you said it was OK.
just vanguish the authorities too, like the Mongols did. then you don't need
to explain yerself to anyone. you can just kill anyone who annoys you.
--
Adolf Hitler
Der Fuhrer
*******************************
Read the Official ATJ FAQ at the resource site for ATJ:
http://www.atjfaq.com
*******************************
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