"*nemo*" <nemo0037@earthlink.dieSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:nemo0037-458004.03440702112005@news1.west.earthlink.net...

I seem to recall reading once that some major eary Christian leader said
that it's no sin to lie for the advancement of God's Kingdom. Could
someone out there refer me to the right quote and source, please?

The two classic cases are Bishop 'Scooter' Eusebius and John 'Biggest Liar
On The Face Of The Fucking Earth' Chrysostom:

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http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/lying.htm
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Bishop Eusebius, the official propagandist for Constantine, entitles the
32nd Chapter of his 12th Book of Evangelical Preparation:
"How it may be Lawful and Fitting to use Falsehood as a Medicine, and for
the Benefit of those who Want to be Deceived."

Eusebius is notoriously the author of a great many falsehoods - but then he
does warn us in his infamous history:

"We shall introduce into this history in general only those events which
may be useful first to ourselves and afterwards to posterity."
(Ecclesiastical History, Vol. 8, chapter 2).

John Chrysostom, 5th century theologian and erstwhile bishop of
Constantinople, is another:

"Do you see the advantage of deceit? ...

For great is the value of deceit, provided it be not introduced with a
mischievous intention. In fact action of this kind ought not to be called
deceit, but rather a kind of good management, cleverness and skill, capable
of finding out ways where resources fail, and making up for the defects of
the mind ...

And often it is necessary to deceive, and to do the greatest benefits by
means of this device, whereas he who has gone by a straight course has done
great mischief to the person whom he has not deceived."
(Treatise On The Priesthood, Book 1).

"*nemo*" wrote
:I seem to recall reading once that some major eary Christian leader said
: that it's no sin to lie for the advancement of God's Kingdom. Could
: someone out there refer me to the right quote and source, please?

Is this what you are looking for:

"For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory;
why yet am I also judged as a sinner?" (Rom. 3.7)

*nemo* wrote:

I seem to recall reading once that some major eary Christian leader said
that it's no sin to lie for the advancement of God's Kingdom. Could
someone out there refer me to the right quote and source, please?

Not "early" but a "major" Christian leader was Martin Luther. But
please to note the parameters he places around such a lie.

"What harm would it do, if a man told a good strong lie for the sake of
the good and for the Christian church...a lie out of necessity, a useful
lie, a helpful lie, such lies would not be against God, he would accept
them." -- Martin Luther

E.g., Christians in the USSR had little choice but to lie to protect the
existence of their underground churches.

*nemo* wrote:

I seem to recall reading once that some major eary Christian leader
said that it's no sin to lie for the advancement of God's Kingdom.
Could someone out there refer me to the right quote and source,
please?

Danke!

Bishop Eusebius of Ceasara.

He wrote a history of the church about 350 BCE and
in its preface wrote he would not be at all adverse
in his work to leaving out stuff that did not redound
to the credit of the church.

He wrote a biography of Emperor Constatine in which
he left out all the murders and other disgraces
of that regime.

Earning him the scorn of at leat one historian
who called him the forst thoroughly dishonest
historian, but mainly for his biography.
His eccclestial history is not really particularly
dishonest, and he is manly know (outside his writings)
for his involvment with the Arian controversy.
and

*nemo* wrote:

I seem to recall reading once that some major eary Christian leader
said that it's no sin to lie for the advancement of God's Kingdom.
Could someone out there refer me to the right quote and source,
please?

Danke!

Bishop Eusebius of Ceasara.

He wrote a history of the church about 350 BCE and
in its preface wrote he would not be at all adverse
in his work to leaving out stuff that did not redound
to the credit of the church.

He wrote a biography of Emperor Constatine in which
he left out all the murders and other disgraces
of that regime.

Earning him the scorn of at leat one historian
who called him the forst thoroughly dishonest
historian, but mainly for his biography.
His eccclestial history is not really particularly
dishonest, and he is manly know (outside his writings)
for his involvment with the Arian controversy.
and

All those who profess the existence of a god are liars, but ironically,
it was the founder of Christianity himself who said, "For if the truth
of God has abounded more through my fabricating stories about his
glory, why am I considered to be a sinner?" (Saul of Tarsus, Rom 3:7)

The implication clearly is that Paul is not judged a sinner because
he's lying through his teeth about this mythical Jesus, but because all
humanity is irrationally and barbarically condemned as sinners
regardless of what they've done.