Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research



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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "quibbler"
Date: 30 Jan 2005 07:16:57 PM
Object: Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research
http://www.halifaxlive.com/artman/publish/stem_cells_013005_37892.shtml
Yet another victory for embryonic stem cell research despite obstruction
and propaganda campaigns from theocrats and know-nothing jack asses such
as George Bush or Mel Gibson.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Jan 30, 2005, 17:18

Researchers at the University of Wisconsin-Madison have coaxed human
embryonic stem cells into becoming spinal motor neurons in an experiment
the might lead to treatments and cures for spinal-cord injuries and
diseases like Lou Gehrig's disease.
Spinal motor neurons relay messages sent from the brain to the rest of
the body, making them critical components of the nervous system.
The researchers reported their findings today, in the journal Nature
Biotechnology.
Transforming embryonic stem cells into motor neurons had eluded
researchers for decades, until now.
Lead researcher, Su-Chun Zhang, said, the next step will be to
transplant the newly generated neurons into a living animal.
Zhang also cautioned that it will be many years before they can be
tested in humans.
The team also said the newly generated motor neurons transmitted
electrical impulses, making them functional.

--
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
.

User: "johac"

Title: Re: Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research 17 Feb 2005 12:33:23 AM
In article <669411hjr96uabadh0t23v0cd4vei9hucf@4ax.com>,
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 22:58:26 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> said in
alt.atheism:

In article <vfd011h1k4s2kqk21u6225hupq6j4prbi6@4ax.com>,
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 21:00:13 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> said in
alt.atheism:


How does that go again? "Nasty, brutish, and short."


"... the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."
- The Leviathan by Thomas Hobbes


Yep. Pretty soon that will be our lot in the Bush theocracy. (Unless of
course you are one of his rich friends.)


I guess rich enemies don't count, huh?

Depends on how much you 'donate'.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
Intelligent Design has as much to do with science as reality
television has to do with reality. - Barry Lynn on CNN 12/25/04
.

User: "stoney"

Title: Re: Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research 14 Feb 2005 12:44:37 PM
On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 21:00:13 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <issu015cvpdvjq3bdon1b119mbfj9ntlss@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 23:08:20 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <pd5n0156g8h58s76uerndj8aeta5hleg1g@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 22:50:59 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <prck01pv9i0gf422s3u3bcn2cajp6geiuu@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 22:02:46 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <5o2i01tdqc9n3rdp57tgl0labfuarqb4a6@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 21:50:20 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:


[]

I'm waiting for the 'brain drain' in reverse.


Which is already in progress.


It is. Several big name scientists have already emigrated to
Britain
and
Singapore is becoming a very attractive place to do scientific
research.


And more areas will follow that lead.


India and China are the most likely.


I thought China kept their scientists on very short leashes.


They are starting to get some respect. I see many groundbreaking papers
coming from that part of the world. Science is a big prestige thing and
the Chinese would like to be No. 1. It should also be noted that many of
their scientists were trained in the US at universities supported by the
US taxpayers.


Then it won't be long before US 'scientists' have to get their
training out of country.


No kidding. If the cretinists get their way, biology won't even be
taught anymore. On second thought, why teach science or anything else,
since according to the fundies, everything that you need to know is in
the Babble.


In which case their life will be very very short.


How does that go again? "Nasty, brutish, and short."

Yes, but that's Christian brand 'paradise, loving, and sufficient.'
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
User: "johac"

Title: Re: Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research 15 Feb 2005 12:52:27 AM
In article <bbs11155dkgjapm1kmv8i4vurk6mhek6f6@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 21:00:13 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <issu015cvpdvjq3bdon1b119mbfj9ntlss@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 23:08:20 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <pd5n0156g8h58s76uerndj8aeta5hleg1g@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 22:50:59 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <prck01pv9i0gf422s3u3bcn2cajp6geiuu@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 22:02:46 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <5o2i01tdqc9n3rdp57tgl0labfuarqb4a6@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 21:50:20 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com>
wrote:


[]

I'm waiting for the 'brain drain' in reverse.


Which is already in progress.


It is. Several big name scientists have already emigrated to
Britain
and
Singapore is becoming a very attractive place to do scientific
research.


And more areas will follow that lead.


India and China are the most likely.


I thought China kept their scientists on very short leashes.


They are starting to get some respect. I see many groundbreaking
papers
coming from that part of the world. Science is a big prestige thing
and
the Chinese would like to be No. 1. It should also be noted that many
of
their scientists were trained in the US at universities supported by
the
US taxpayers.


Then it won't be long before US 'scientists' have to get their
training out of country.


No kidding. If the cretinists get their way, biology won't even be
taught anymore. On second thought, why teach science or anything else,
since according to the fundies, everything that you need to know is in
the Babble.


In which case their life will be very very short.


How does that go again? "Nasty, brutish, and short."


Yes, but that's Christian brand 'paradise, loving, and sufficient.'

Yeah. Don't worry if your life is crap, Jeebus will make it up to you in
heaven.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
Intelligent Design has as much to do with science as reality
television has to do with reality. - Barry Lynn on CNN 12/25/04
.
User: "stoney"

Title: Re: Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research 15 Feb 2005 09:23:35 AM
On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 22:52:27 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <bbs11155dkgjapm1kmv8i4vurk6mhek6f6@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 21:00:13 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <issu015cvpdvjq3bdon1b119mbfj9ntlss@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 23:08:20 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <pd5n0156g8h58s76uerndj8aeta5hleg1g@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 22:50:59 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <prck01pv9i0gf422s3u3bcn2cajp6geiuu@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 22:02:46 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <5o2i01tdqc9n3rdp57tgl0labfuarqb4a6@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 21:50:20 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com>
wrote:


[]

I'm waiting for the 'brain drain' in reverse.


Which is already in progress.


It is. Several big name scientists have already emigrated to
Britain
and
Singapore is becoming a very attractive place to do scientific
research.


And more areas will follow that lead.


India and China are the most likely.


I thought China kept their scientists on very short leashes.


They are starting to get some respect. I see many groundbreaking
papers
coming from that part of the world. Science is a big prestige thing
and
the Chinese would like to be No. 1. It should also be noted that many
of
their scientists were trained in the US at universities supported by
the
US taxpayers.


Then it won't be long before US 'scientists' have to get their
training out of country.


No kidding. If the cretinists get their way, biology won't even be
taught anymore. On second thought, why teach science or anything else,
since according to the fundies, everything that you need to know is in
the Babble.


In which case their life will be very very short.


How does that go again? "Nasty, brutish, and short."


Yes, but that's Christian brand 'paradise, loving, and sufficient.'


Yeah. Don't worry if your life is crap, Jeebus will make it up to you in
heaven.

That would be hel.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
User: "johac"

Title: Re: Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research 17 Feb 2005 12:34:59 AM
In article <9v4411d1fjs16fe99l5qd8k09j2kjlbgeq@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 22:52:27 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <bbs11155dkgjapm1kmv8i4vurk6mhek6f6@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 21:00:13 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <issu015cvpdvjq3bdon1b119mbfj9ntlss@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 23:08:20 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <pd5n0156g8h58s76uerndj8aeta5hleg1g@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 22:50:59 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <prck01pv9i0gf422s3u3bcn2cajp6geiuu@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 22:02:46 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com>
wrote:

In article <5o2i01tdqc9n3rdp57tgl0labfuarqb4a6@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 21:50:20 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com>
wrote:


[]

I'm waiting for the 'brain drain' in reverse.


Which is already in progress.


It is. Several big name scientists have already emigrated to
Britain
and
Singapore is becoming a very attractive place to do
scientific
research.


And more areas will follow that lead.


India and China are the most likely.


I thought China kept their scientists on very short leashes.


They are starting to get some respect. I see many groundbreaking
papers
coming from that part of the world. Science is a big prestige thing
and
the Chinese would like to be No. 1. It should also be noted that
many
of
their scientists were trained in the US at universities supported
by
the
US taxpayers.


Then it won't be long before US 'scientists' have to get their
training out of country.


No kidding. If the cretinists get their way, biology won't even be
taught anymore. On second thought, why teach science or anything else,
since according to the fundies, everything that you need to know is in
the Babble.


In which case their life will be very very short.


How does that go again? "Nasty, brutish, and short."


Yes, but that's Christian brand 'paradise, loving, and sufficient.'


Yeah. Don't worry if your life is crap, Jeebus will make it up to you in
heaven.


That would be hel.

Jesus would send you to hell anyway. If your life is crap, it must be
your fault. Jeebus is a Republican.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
Intelligent Design has as much to do with science as reality
television has to do with reality. - Barry Lynn on CNN 12/25/04
.
User: "stoney"

Title: Re: Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research 17 Feb 2005 09:48:03 AM
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 22:34:59 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <9v4411d1fjs16fe99l5qd8k09j2kjlbgeq@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 22:52:27 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <bbs11155dkgjapm1kmv8i4vurk6mhek6f6@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 21:00:13 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <issu015cvpdvjq3bdon1b119mbfj9ntlss@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 23:08:20 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <pd5n0156g8h58s76uerndj8aeta5hleg1g@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 22:50:59 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <prck01pv9i0gf422s3u3bcn2cajp6geiuu@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 22:02:46 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com>
wrote:

In article <5o2i01tdqc9n3rdp57tgl0labfuarqb4a6@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 21:50:20 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com>
wrote:


[]

I'm waiting for the 'brain drain' in reverse.


Which is already in progress.


It is. Several big name scientists have already emigrated to
Britain
and
Singapore is becoming a very attractive place to do
scientific
research.


And more areas will follow that lead.


India and China are the most likely.


I thought China kept their scientists on very short leashes.


They are starting to get some respect. I see many groundbreaking
papers
coming from that part of the world. Science is a big prestige thing
and
the Chinese would like to be No. 1. It should also be noted that
many
of
their scientists were trained in the US at universities supported
by
the
US taxpayers.


Then it won't be long before US 'scientists' have to get their
training out of country.


No kidding. If the cretinists get their way, biology won't even be
taught anymore. On second thought, why teach science or anything else,
since according to the fundies, everything that you need to know is in
the Babble.


In which case their life will be very very short.


How does that go again? "Nasty, brutish, and short."


Yes, but that's Christian brand 'paradise, loving, and sufficient.'


Yeah. Don't worry if your life is crap, Jeebus will make it up to you in
heaven.


That would be hel.


Jesus would send you to hell anyway. If your life is crap, it must be
your fault. Jeebus is a Republican.

You mean Rethugnican Taliban.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
User: "johac"

Title: Re: Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research 18 Feb 2005 12:28:21 AM
In article <i4f911dk2em7mtlhptkmmp5qk7bcnshpn5@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 22:34:59 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <9v4411d1fjs16fe99l5qd8k09j2kjlbgeq@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 22:52:27 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <bbs11155dkgjapm1kmv8i4vurk6mhek6f6@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 21:00:13 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <issu015cvpdvjq3bdon1b119mbfj9ntlss@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 23:08:20 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <pd5n0156g8h58s76uerndj8aeta5hleg1g@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 22:50:59 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com>
wrote:

In article <prck01pv9i0gf422s3u3bcn2cajp6geiuu@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 22:02:46 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com>
wrote:

In article <5o2i01tdqc9n3rdp57tgl0labfuarqb4a6@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 21:50:20 -0800, johac
<jhachm@ixpres.com>
wrote:


[]

I'm waiting for the 'brain drain' in reverse.


Which is already in progress.


It is. Several big name scientists have already emigrated
to
Britain
and
Singapore is becoming a very attractive place to do
scientific
research.


And more areas will follow that lead.


India and China are the most likely.


I thought China kept their scientists on very short leashes.


They are starting to get some respect. I see many groundbreaking
papers
coming from that part of the world. Science is a big prestige
thing
and
the Chinese would like to be No. 1. It should also be noted that
many
of
their scientists were trained in the US at universities
supported
by
the
US taxpayers.


Then it won't be long before US 'scientists' have to get their
training out of country.


No kidding. If the cretinists get their way, biology won't even be
taught anymore. On second thought, why teach science or anything
else,
since according to the fundies, everything that you need to know is
in
the Babble.


In which case their life will be very very short.


How does that go again? "Nasty, brutish, and short."


Yes, but that's Christian brand 'paradise, loving, and sufficient.'


Yeah. Don't worry if your life is crap, Jeebus will make it up to you in
heaven.


That would be hel.


Jesus would send you to hell anyway. If your life is crap, it must be
your fault. Jeebus is a Republican.


You mean Rethugnican Taliban.

And organizer of the Jihadi for Jeebus Brigade.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
Intelligent Design has as much to do with science as reality
television has to do with reality. - Barry Lynn on CNN 12/25/04
.
User: "stoney"

Title: Re: Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research 18 Feb 2005 09:15:05 AM
On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:28:21 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <i4f911dk2em7mtlhptkmmp5qk7bcnshpn5@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 22:34:59 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <9v4411d1fjs16fe99l5qd8k09j2kjlbgeq@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

[]

And more areas will follow that lead.


India and China are the most likely.


I thought China kept their scientists on very short leashes.


They are starting to get some respect. I see many groundbreaking
papers
coming from that part of the world. Science is a big prestige
thing
and
the Chinese would like to be No. 1. It should also be noted that
many
of
their scientists were trained in the US at universities
supported
by
the
US taxpayers.


Then it won't be long before US 'scientists' have to get their
training out of country.


No kidding. If the cretinists get their way, biology won't even be
taught anymore. On second thought, why teach science or anything
else,
since according to the fundies, everything that you need to know is
in
the Babble.


In which case their life will be very very short.


How does that go again? "Nasty, brutish, and short."


Yes, but that's Christian brand 'paradise, loving, and sufficient.'


Yeah. Don't worry if your life is crap, Jeebus will make it up to you in
heaven.


That would be hel.


Jesus would send you to hell anyway. If your life is crap, it must be
your fault. Jeebus is a Republican.


You mean Rethugnican Taliban.


And organizer of the Jihadi for Jeebus Brigade.

With the 'pork boxes of everfull(tm).'
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
User: "johac"

Title: Re: Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research 19 Feb 2005 01:15:23 AM
In article <ai1c11t4mtgrh6i1uarnji4tnu85ckgs67@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:28:21 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <i4f911dk2em7mtlhptkmmp5qk7bcnshpn5@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 22:34:59 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <9v4411d1fjs16fe99l5qd8k09j2kjlbgeq@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:


[]

And more areas will follow that lead.


India and China are the most likely.


I thought China kept their scientists on very short
leashes.


They are starting to get some respect. I see many
groundbreaking
papers
coming from that part of the world. Science is a big prestige
thing
and
the Chinese would like to be No. 1. It should also be noted
that
many
of
their scientists were trained in the US at universities
supported
by
the
US taxpayers.


Then it won't be long before US 'scientists' have to get their
training out of country.


No kidding. If the cretinists get their way, biology won't even
be
taught anymore. On second thought, why teach science or anything
else,
since according to the fundies, everything that you need to know
is
in
the Babble.


In which case their life will be very very short.


How does that go again? "Nasty, brutish, and short."


Yes, but that's Christian brand 'paradise, loving, and sufficient.'


Yeah. Don't worry if your life is crap, Jeebus will make it up to you
in
heaven.


That would be hel.


Jesus would send you to hell anyway. If your life is crap, it must be
your fault. Jeebus is a Republican.


You mean Rethugnican Taliban.


And organizer of the Jihadi for Jeebus Brigade.


With the 'pork boxes of everfull(tm).'

They can't get enough of that pork.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
Intelligent Design has as much to do with science as reality
television has to do with reality. - Barry Lynn on CNN 12/25/04
.
User: "stoney"

Title: Re: Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research 19 Feb 2005 09:53:25 AM
On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 23:15:23 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <ai1c11t4mtgrh6i1uarnji4tnu85ckgs67@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:28:21 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <i4f911dk2em7mtlhptkmmp5qk7bcnshpn5@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

[]

Jesus would send you to hell anyway. If your life is crap, it must be
your fault. Jeebus is a Republican.


You mean Rethugnican Taliban.


And organizer of the Jihadi for Jeebus Brigade.


With the 'pork boxes of everfull(tm).'


They can't get enough of that pork.

Don't forget kickbacks, bribes, skim, and the other 'honesties.'
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
User: "johac"

Title: Re: Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research 20 Feb 2005 01:44:38 AM
In article <p5oe111l3gv93kojfmb3gq2mmr4880s27a@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 23:15:23 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <ai1c11t4mtgrh6i1uarnji4tnu85ckgs67@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:28:21 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <i4f911dk2em7mtlhptkmmp5qk7bcnshpn5@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:


[]

Jesus would send you to hell anyway. If your life is crap, it must be
your fault. Jeebus is a Republican.


You mean Rethugnican Taliban.


And organizer of the Jihadi for Jeebus Brigade.


With the 'pork boxes of everfull(tm).'


They can't get enough of that pork.


Don't forget kickbacks, bribes, skim, and the other 'honesties.'

Tips and payments for 'services rendered'.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
Intelligent Design has as much to do with science as reality
television has to do with reality. - Barry Lynn on CNN 12/25/04
.
User: "stoney"

Title: Re: Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research 20 Feb 2005 09:09:13 AM
On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 23:44:38 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <p5oe111l3gv93kojfmb3gq2mmr4880s27a@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 23:15:23 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <ai1c11t4mtgrh6i1uarnji4tnu85ckgs67@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:28:21 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <i4f911dk2em7mtlhptkmmp5qk7bcnshpn5@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:


[]

Jesus would send you to hell anyway. If your life is crap, it must be
your fault. Jeebus is a Republican.


You mean Rethugnican Taliban.


And organizer of the Jihadi for Jeebus Brigade.


With the 'pork boxes of everfull(tm).'


They can't get enough of that pork.


Don't forget kickbacks, bribes, skim, and the other 'honesties.'


Tips and payments for 'services rendered'.

Yep. Rim jobs and the like.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
User: "johac"

Title: Re: Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research 20 Feb 2005 11:17:13 PM
In article <10ah11dvpqat6pt6nv66seve9gnb19l6gs@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 23:44:38 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <p5oe111l3gv93kojfmb3gq2mmr4880s27a@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 23:15:23 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <ai1c11t4mtgrh6i1uarnji4tnu85ckgs67@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 22:28:21 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <i4f911dk2em7mtlhptkmmp5qk7bcnshpn5@4ax.com>,
stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:


[]

Jesus would send you to hell anyway. If your life is crap, it must
be
your fault. Jeebus is a Republican.


You mean Rethugnican Taliban.


And organizer of the Jihadi for Jeebus Brigade.


With the 'pork boxes of everfull(tm).'


They can't get enough of that pork.


Don't forget kickbacks, bribes, skim, and the other 'honesties.'


Tips and payments for 'services rendered'.


Yep. Rim jobs and the like.

Hos, every one of them.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
Intelligent Design has as much to do with science as reality
television has to do with reality. - Barry Lynn on CNN 12/25/04
.












User: "Fred Stone"

Title: Re: Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research 02 Feb 2005 07:42:15 AM
johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in news:jhachm-5ABE5E.21582901022005
@news.giganews.com:

In article <36a3gnF4ts7rgU1@individual.net>,
Tukla Ratte <tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote:

Fred Stone wrote:

johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-795397.21492631012005@news.giganews.com:


In article <Xns95EF58AAA5656fstone69@205.188.138.161>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:


johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-D15EB4.21534030012005@news.giganews.com:


< snip >

One thing is certain. We will never know the benefits of stem

cell

research unless we are allowed to do the science.


Nobody's stopping anybody from doing the science.


Bush has made it extremely difficult.



I doubt that. He's taken away the "easy touch" of a federal grant
application.


Same thing.


Fred forgets that many of the greatest science breakthroughs in recent
years happened at universities and research institutes which depend
heavily on government grants. Also many small businesses apply for
government grants to carry out risky, but nevertheless important
research projects. Part of the work that I am doing now is funded in
part by a NSF small business research grant.

And you forget that the government is entitled to choose which projects
it will fund and which it won't.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Where am I to go, now that I've gone too far?
.
User: "jwk"

Title: Re: Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research 02 Feb 2005 10:05:45 AM
Fred Stone wrote:

johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in news:jhachm-5ABE5E.21582901022005
@news.giganews.com:

In article <36a3gnF4ts7rgU1@individual.net>,
Tukla Ratte <tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote:

Fred Stone wrote:

johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-795397.21492631012005@news.giganews.com:


In article <Xns95EF58AAA5656fstone69@205.188.138.161>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:


johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-D15EB4.21534030012005@news.giganews.com:


< snip >

One thing is certain. We will never know the benefits of stem

cell

research unless we are allowed to do the science.


Nobody's stopping anybody from doing the science.


Bush has made it extremely difficult.



I doubt that. He's taken away the "easy touch" of a federal

grant

application.


Same thing.


Fred forgets that many of the greatest science breakthroughs in

recent

years happened at universities and research institutes which depend
heavily on government grants. Also many small businesses apply for
government grants to carry out risky, but nevertheless important
research projects. Part of the work that I am doing now is funded

in

part by a NSF small business research grant.


And you forget that the government is entitled to choose which

projects

it will fund and which it won't.

You make "the government" sound like a private individual. *Our
government absolutely is not entitled. Entitlements are for citizens.
We are entitled to fair and impartial representation. The bastards
running things, elected by the people of the US, are supposed to
administer *our government fairly. They don't. They are trying to
enact bible legislation and bible regulations. Otherwise stem-cell
research would get the same funding any other line of medical research
does.
jwk
.

User: "johac"

Title: Re: Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research 04 Feb 2005 12:27:02 AM
In article <Xns95F1589389AC7fstone69@205.188.138.161>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in news:jhachm-5ABE5E.21582901022005
@news.giganews.com:

In article <36a3gnF4ts7rgU1@individual.net>,
Tukla Ratte <tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote:

Fred Stone wrote:

johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-795397.21492631012005@news.giganews.com:


In article <Xns95EF58AAA5656fstone69@205.188.138.161>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:


johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-D15EB4.21534030012005@news.giganews.com:


< snip >

One thing is certain. We will never know the benefits of stem

cell

research unless we are allowed to do the science.


Nobody's stopping anybody from doing the science.


Bush has made it extremely difficult.



I doubt that. He's taken away the "easy touch" of a federal grant
application.


Same thing.


Fred forgets that many of the greatest science breakthroughs in recent
years happened at universities and research institutes which depend
heavily on government grants. Also many small businesses apply for
government grants to carry out risky, but nevertheless important
research projects. Part of the work that I am doing now is funded in
part by a NSF small business research grant.


And you forget that the government is entitled to choose which projects
it will fund and which it won't.

I agree as long as the decisions are based solely on the merit of the
science and not on right wing religious ideology.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
Intelligent Design has as much to do with science as reality
television has to do with reality. - Barry Lynn on CNN 12/25/04
.
User: "Fred Stone"

Title: Re: Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research 04 Feb 2005 08:22:52 AM
johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-21DCC3.22270203022005@news.giganews.com:

In article <Xns95F1589389AC7fstone69@205.188.138.161>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in news:jhachm-5ABE5E.21582901022005
@news.giganews.com:

In article <36a3gnF4ts7rgU1@individual.net>,
Tukla Ratte <tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote:

Fred Stone wrote:

johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-795397.21492631012005@news.giganews.com:


In article <Xns95EF58AAA5656fstone69@205.188.138.161>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:


johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-D15EB4.21534030012005@news.giganews.com:


< snip >

One thing is certain. We will never know the benefits of stem

cell

research unless we are allowed to do the science.


Nobody's stopping anybody from doing the science.


Bush has made it extremely difficult.



I doubt that. He's taken away the "easy touch" of a federal
grant application.


Same thing.


Fred forgets that many of the greatest science breakthroughs in
recent years happened at universities and research institutes which
depend heavily on government grants. Also many small businesses
apply for government grants to carry out risky, but nevertheless
important research projects. Part of the work that I am doing now
is funded in part by a NSF small business research grant.


And you forget that the government is entitled to choose which
projects it will fund and which it won't.


I agree as long as the decisions are based solely on the merit of the
science and not on right wing religious ideology.

Why? They make environmental decisions based on left-wing religious
ideology.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Where am I to go, now that I've gone too far?
.
User: "Tukla Ratte"

Title: Re: Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research 04 Feb 2005 04:55:07 PM
Fred Stone wrote:

johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-21DCC3.22270203022005@news.giganews.com:


In article <Xns95F1589389AC7fstone69@205.188.138.161>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

< snip >

And you forget that the government is entitled to choose which
projects it will fund and which it won't.


I agree as long as the decisions are based solely on the merit of the
science and not on right wing religious ideology.



Why? They make environmental decisions based on left-wing religious
ideology.

Yeah, those crazy left-wing ideologues and their "clean air" and
"non-toxic food".
--
Tukla, Eater of Theists, Squeaker of Chew Toys
Official Mascot of Alt.Atheism, aa 1347
.
User: "Fred Stone"

Title: Re: Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research 05 Feb 2005 07:39:47 AM
Tukla Ratte <tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote in news:36icqdF50eipmU1
@individual.net:

Fred Stone wrote:

johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-21DCC3.22270203022005@news.giganews.com:


In article <Xns95F1589389AC7fstone69@205.188.138.161>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:


< snip >

And you forget that the government is entitled to choose which
projects it will fund and which it won't.


I agree as long as the decisions are based solely on the merit of the
science and not on right wing religious ideology.



Why? They make environmental decisions based on left-wing religious
ideology.


Yeah, those crazy left-wing ideologues and their "clean air" and
"non-toxic food".

Yeah, as if the air is being polluted more or the food being
deliberately poisoned by Republicans.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Where am I to go, now that I've gone too far?
.


User: "johac"

Title: Re: Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research 05 Feb 2005 01:32:45 AM
In article <Xns95F35F79A93E3fstone69@205.188.138.161>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-21DCC3.22270203022005@news.giganews.com:

In article <Xns95F1589389AC7fstone69@205.188.138.161>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in news:jhachm-5ABE5E.21582901022005
@news.giganews.com:

In article <36a3gnF4ts7rgU1@individual.net>,
Tukla Ratte <tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote:

Fred Stone wrote:

johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-795397.21492631012005@news.giganews.com:


In article <Xns95EF58AAA5656fstone69@205.188.138.161>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:


johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-D15EB4.21534030012005@news.giganews.com:


< snip >

One thing is certain. We will never know the benefits of stem

cell

research unless we are allowed to do the science.


Nobody's stopping anybody from doing the science.


Bush has made it extremely difficult.



I doubt that. He's taken away the "easy touch" of a federal
grant application.


Same thing.


Fred forgets that many of the greatest science breakthroughs in
recent years happened at universities and research institutes which
depend heavily on government grants. Also many small businesses
apply for government grants to carry out risky, but nevertheless
important research projects. Part of the work that I am doing now
is funded in part by a NSF small business research grant.


And you forget that the government is entitled to choose which
projects it will fund and which it won't.


I agree as long as the decisions are based solely on the merit of the
science and not on right wing religious ideology.


Why? They make environmental decisions based on left-wing religious
ideology.

LMAO! You are a loon!
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
Intelligent Design has as much to do with science as reality
television has to do with reality. - Barry Lynn on CNN 12/25/04
.
User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research 06 Feb 2005 09:29:14 PM
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 23:32:45 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> said in
alt.atheism:

In article <Xns95F35F79A93E3fstone69@205.188.138.161>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-21DCC3.22270203022005@news.giganews.com:

I agree as long as the decisions are based solely on the merit of the
science and not on right wing religious ideology.

Why? They make environmental decisions based on left-wing religious
ideology.

LMAO! You are a loon!

According to Phred, if liberals want something it's "left wing
religion", but if the RepubLIEcans want to prevent something based on
what it says in the bible, it's "sound scientific principle".
Since the RepubLIEcans are Christian fundies, Phred can no longer be
an atheist.
--
"I don't try to imagine a God; it suffices to stand in awe of the structure of the world
insofar as it allows our inadequate senses to appreciate it."
- Letter to S. Flesch, April 16, 1954; Einstein Archive 30-1154
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
.
User: "johac"

Title: Re: Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research 06 Feb 2005 11:54:11 PM
In article <00od015ihq0ng186hcabmfjni8hgn1agc4@4ax.com>,
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:

On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 23:32:45 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> said in
alt.atheism:

In article <Xns95F35F79A93E3fstone69@205.188.138.161>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-21DCC3.22270203022005@news.giganews.com:


I agree as long as the decisions are based solely on the merit of the
science and not on right wing religious ideology.


Why? They make environmental decisions based on left-wing religious
ideology.


LMAO! You are a loon!


According to Phred, if liberals want something it's "left wing
religion", but if the RepubLIEcans want to prevent something based on
what it says in the bible, it's "sound scientific principle".

Since the RepubLIEcans are Christian fundies, Phred can no longer be
an atheist.

He certainly argues like a fundy. The inerrant word of Dubya.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
Intelligent Design has as much to do with science as reality
television has to do with reality. - Barry Lynn on CNN 12/25/04
.
User: "Tukla Ratte"

Title: Re: Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research 09 Feb 2005 04:25:28 PM
johac wrote:

In article <00od015ihq0ng186hcabmfjni8hgn1agc4@4ax.com>,
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:

< snip >

According to Phred, if liberals want something it's "left wing
religion", but if the RepubLIEcans want to prevent something based on
what it says in the bible, it's "sound scientific principle".

Since the RepubLIEcans are Christian fundies, Phred can no longer be
an atheist.



He certainly argues like a fundy. The inerrant word of Dubya.

It's only a matter of time before the "atheist" portion of his mind and
the "neocon" portion of his mind come in contact and his brain goes up
in a flash of gamma rays.
--
Tukla, Eater of Theists, Squeaker of Chew Toys
Official Mascot of Alt.Atheism, aa 1347
.
User: "stoney"

Title: Re: Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research 10 Feb 2005 11:10:52 AM
On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 16:25:28 -0600, Tukla Ratte
<tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote:

johac wrote:

In article <00od015ihq0ng186hcabmfjni8hgn1agc4@4ax.com>,
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:


< snip >

According to Phred, if liberals want something it's "left wing
religion", but if the RepubLIEcans want to prevent something based on
what it says in the bible, it's "sound scientific principle".

Since the RepubLIEcans are Christian fundies, Phred can no longer be
an atheist.

He certainly argues like a fundy. The inerrant word of Dubya.


It's only a matter of time before the "atheist" portion of his mind and
the "neocon" portion of his mind come in contact and his brain goes up
in a flash of gamma rays.

It 'China Syndromed.'
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
User: "John Baker"

Title: Re: Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research 10 Feb 2005 12:00:51 PM
On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 09:10:52 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:

On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 16:25:28 -0600, Tukla Ratte
<tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote:

johac wrote:

In article <00od015ihq0ng186hcabmfjni8hgn1agc4@4ax.com>,
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:


< snip >

According to Phred, if liberals want something it's "left wing
religion", but if the RepubLIEcans want to prevent something based on
what it says in the bible, it's "sound scientific principle".

Since the RepubLIEcans are Christian fundies, Phred can no longer be
an atheist.


He certainly argues like a fundy. The inerrant word of Dubya.


It's only a matter of time before the "atheist" portion of his mind and
the "neocon" portion of his mind come in contact and his brain goes up
in a flash of gamma rays.


It 'China Syndromed.'

I'm not sure. Is there enough mass there to initiate a reaction?
.


User: "Fred Stone"

Title: Re: Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research 09 Feb 2005 04:33:11 PM
Tukla Ratte <tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote in
news:36vgupF56o7a4U1@individual.net:

johac wrote:

In article <00od015ihq0ng186hcabmfjni8hgn1agc4@4ax.com>,
Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid> wrote:


< snip >

According to Phred, if liberals want something it's "left wing
religion", but if the RepubLIEcans want to prevent something based on
what it says in the bible, it's "sound scientific principle".

Since the RepubLIEcans are Christian fundies, Phred can no longer be
an atheist.



He certainly argues like a fundy. The inerrant word of Dubya.


It's only a matter of time before the "atheist" portion of his mind
and the "neocon" portion of his mind come in contact and his brain
goes up in a flash of gamma rays.

Gee, why don't all you Smart Fellers get together and publish your list
of Rules For Being An Atheist?
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
Where am I to go, now that I've gone too far?
.




User: "stoney"

Title: Re: Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research 05 Feb 2005 02:11:02 PM
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 23:32:45 -0800, johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote:

In article <Xns95F35F79A93E3fstone69@205.188.138.161>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-21DCC3.22270203022005@news.giganews.com:

In article <Xns95F1589389AC7fstone69@205.188.138.161>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:

johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in news:jhachm-5ABE5E.21582901022005
@news.giganews.com:

In article <36a3gnF4ts7rgU1@individual.net>,
Tukla Ratte <tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote:

Fred Stone wrote:

johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-795397.21492631012005@news.giganews.com:


In article <Xns95EF58AAA5656fstone69@205.188.138.161>,
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote:


johac <jhachm@ixpres.com> wrote in
news:jhachm-D15EB4.21534030012005@news.giganews.com:


< snip >

One thing is certain. We will never know the benefits of stem

cell

research unless we are allowed to do the science.


Nobody's stopping anybody from doing the science.


Bush has made it extremely difficult.



I doubt that. He's taken away the "easy touch" of a federal
grant application.


Same thing.


Fred forgets that many of the greatest science breakthroughs in
recent years happened at universities and research institutes which
depend heavily on government grants. Also many small businesses
apply for government grants to carry out risky, but nevertheless
important research projects. Part of the work that I am doing now
is funded in part by a NSF small business research grant.


And you forget that the government is entitled to choose which
projects it will fund and which it won't.


I agree as long as the decisions are based solely on the merit of the
science and not on right wing religious ideology.


Why? They make environmental decisions based on left-wing religious
ideology.


LMAO! You are a loon!

Phred's not that advanced.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.





User: "Tukla Ratte"

Title: Re: Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research 02 Feb 2005 09:00:18 AM
johac wrote:
< snip >

Part of the work that I am doing now is funded in
part by a NSF small business research grant.

<chuckle> Sorry. When I see "NSF", I read it as "non-sufficient funds".
--
Tukla, Eater of Theists, Squeaker of Chew Toys
Official Mascot of Alt.Atheism, aa 1347
.
User: "stoney"

Title: Re: Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research 02 Feb 2005 10:52:26 PM
On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 09:00:18 -0600, Tukla Ratte
<tukla_ratte@tukla.net> wrote:

johac wrote:

< snip >

Part of the work that I am doing now is funded in
part by a NSF small business research grant.


<chuckle> Sorry. When I see "NSF", I read it as "non-sufficient funds".

GMTA................... :)
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.


User: "jwk"

Title: Re: Major breakthrough in human embryonic stem cell research 02 Feb 2005 10:01:00 AM
Fred Stone wrote:

Nobody's stopping anybody from doing the science.


Bush has made it extremely difficult.


I doubt that. He's taken away the "easy touch" of a federal grant
application.

Be honest Fred - it was a religious/political decision, pandering to
the right-wing fundies. You can't pretend that there was a valid
reason no matter how good you are at self-spin. The right-wing, and
Bush, hate atheists like you. Why do you continue to support the
bastards?
jwk
.


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