| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Dan Clore" |
| Date: |
06 Nov 2005 08:43:36 PM |
| Object: |
Malignant Design |
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
Khaleej Times Online
Intelligent Design?
BY NOAM CHOMSKY
6 November 2005
PRESIDENT George W. Bush favours teaching both evolution and
"Intelligent Design" in schools, "so people can know what
the debate is about." To proponents, Intelligent Design is
the notion that the universe is too complex to have
developed without a nudge from a higher power than evolution
or natural selection.
To detractors, Intelligent Design is creationism -- the
literal interpretation of the Book of Genesis -- in a thin
guise, or simply vacuous, about as interesting as "I don't
understand," as has always been true in the sciences before
understanding is reached. Accordingly, there cannot be a
"debate."
The teaching of evolution has long been difficult in the
United States. Now a national movement has emerged to
promote the teaching of Intelligent Design in schools.
The issue has famously surfaced in a courtroom in Dover,
Pa., where a school board is requiring students to hear a
statement about Intelligent Design in a biology class -- and
parents mindful of the Constitution's church/state
separation have sued the board.
In the interest of fairness, perhaps the president's
speechwriters should take him seriously when they have him
say that schools should be open-minded and teach all points
of view. So far, however, the curriculum has not encompassed
one obvious point of view: Malignant Design.
Unlike Intelligent Design, for which the evidence is zero,
malignant design has tons of empirical evidence, much more
than Darwinian evolution, by some criteria: the world's
cruelty. Be that as it may, the background of the current
evolution/intelligent design controversy is the widespread
rejection of science, a phenomenon with deep roots in
American history that has been cynically exploited for
narrow political gain during the last quarter-century.
Intelligent Design raises the question whether it is
intelligent to disregard scientific evidence about matters
of supreme importance to the nation and world -- like global
warming.
An old-fashioned conservative would believe in the value of
Enlightenment ideals -- rationality, critical analysis,
freedom of speech, freedom of inquiry -- and would try to
adapt them to a modern society. The Founding Fathers,
children of the Enlightenment, championed those ideals and
took pains to create a Constitution that espoused religious
freedom yet separated church and state. The United States,
despite the occasional messianism of its leaders, isn't a
theocracy.
In our time, the Bush administration's hostility to
scientific inquiry puts the world at risk. Environmental
catastrophe, whether you think the world has been developing
only since Genesis or for eons, is far too serious to
ignore. In preparation for the G8 summit this past summer,
the scientific academies of all G8 nations (including the US
National Academy of Sciences), joined by those of China,
India and Brazil, called on the leaders of the rich
countries to take urgent action to head off global warming.
"The scientific understanding of climate change is now
sufficiently clear to justify prompt action," their
statement said. "It is vital that all nations identify
cost-effective steps that they can take now, to contribute
to substantial and long-term reduction in net global
greenhouse gas emissions."
In its lead editorial, The Financial Times endorsed this
"clarion call," while observing: "There is, however, one
holdout, and unfortunately it is to be found in the White
House where George W. Bush insists we still do not know
enough about this literally world-changing phenomenon."
Dismissal of scientific evidence on matters of survival, in
keeping with Bush's scientific judgment, is routine. A few
months earlier, at the 2005 annual meeting of the American
Association for the Advancement of Science, leading US
climate researchers released "the most compelling evidence
yet" that human activities are responsible for global
warming, according to The Financial Times. They predicted
major climatic effects, including severe reductions in water
supplies in regions that rely on rivers fed by melting snow
and glaciers.
Other prominent researchers at the same session reported
evidence that the melting of Arctic and Greenland ice sheets
is causing changes in the sea's salinity balance that
threaten "to shut down the Ocean Conveyor Belt, which
transfers heat from the tropics toward the polar regions
through currents such as the Gulf Stream." Such changes
might bring significant temperature reduction to northern
Europe.
Like the statement of the National Academies for the G8
summit, the release of "the most compelling evidence yet"
received scant notice in the United States, despite the
attention given in the same days to the implementation of
the Kyoto protocols, with the most important government
refusing to take part.
It is important to stress "government." The standard report
that the United States stands almost alone in rejecting the
Kyoto protocols is correct only if the phrase "United
States" excludes its population, which strongly favours the
Kyoto pact (73 per cent, according to a July poll by the
Program on International Policy Attitudes).
Perhaps only the word "malignant" could describe a failure
to acknowledge, much less address, the all-too-scientific
issue of climate change. Thus the "moral clarity" of the
Bush administration extends to its cavalier attitude toward
the fate of our grandchildren.
Noam Chomsky, the eminent US intellectual and author, most
recently, of Imperial Ambitions: Conversations on the
Post-9/11 World, is a professor of linguistics at the
Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Cambridge, Mass.
--
Dan Clore
My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1587154838/thedanclorenecro/
Lord We˙rdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind.
-- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"
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| User: "Grace Haliburton" |
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| Title: Re: Malignant Design |
06 Nov 2005 08:58:32 PM |
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Dan Clore wrote:
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
<snip article>
I do love Chomsky's sense of humor :)
-Grace
"Never trust anything that thinks for itself if you can't see where it
keeps its brain." - J.K. Rowling
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Malignant Design |
06 Nov 2005 09:11:17 PM |
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There was humor? Maybe I'm just wasn't in the right frame of mind.
I'll come back later and reread it a third time.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Malignant Design |
06 Nov 2005 09:11:25 PM |
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There was humor? Maybe just wasn't in the right frame of mind. I'll
come back later and reread it a third time.
.
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| User: "scooter" |
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| Title: Re: Malignant Design |
06 Nov 2005 08:52:57 PM |
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Dan Clore wrote:
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
Khaleej Times Online
Intelligent Design?
BY NOAM CHOMSKY
6 November 2005
PRESIDENT George W. Bush favours teaching both evolution and
"Intelligent Design" in schools, "so people can know what
the debate is about." To proponents, Intelligent Design is
the notion that the universe is too complex to have
developed without a nudge from a higher power than evolution
or natural selection.
To detractors, Intelligent Design is creationism -- the
literal interpretation of the Book of Genesis -- in a thin
guise, or simply vacuous, about as interesting as "I don't
understand," as has always been true in the sciences before
understanding is reached. Accordingly, there cannot be a
"debate."
The teaching of evolution has long been difficult in the
United States. Now a national movement has emerged to
promote the teaching of Intelligent Design in schools.
The issue has famously surfaced in a courtroom in Dover,
Pa., where a school board is requiring students to hear a
statement about Intelligent Design in a biology class -- and
parents mindful of the Constitution's church/state
separation have sued the board.
In the interest of fairness, perhaps the president's
speechwriters should take him seriously when they have him
say that schools should be open-minded and teach all points
of view. So far, however, the curriculum has not encompassed
one obvious point of view: Malignant Design.
Unlike Intelligent Design, for which the evidence is zero,
malignant design has tons of empirical evidence, much more
than Darwinian evolution, by some criteria: the world's
cruelty. Be that as it may, the background of the current
evolution/intelligent design controversy is the widespread
rejection of science, a phenomenon with deep roots in
American history that has been cynically exploited for
narrow political gain during the last quarter-century.
Intelligent Design raises the question whether it is
intelligent to disregard scientific evidence about matters
of supreme importance to the nation and world -- like global
warming.
An old-fashioned conservative would believe in the value of
Enlightenment ideals -- rationality, critical analysis,
freedom of speech, freedom of inquiry -- and would try to
adapt them to a modern society. The Founding Fathers,
children of the Enlightenment, championed those ideals and
took pains to create a Constitution that espoused religious
freedom yet separated church and state. The United States,
despite the occasional messianism of its leaders, isn't a
theocracy.
In our time, the Bush administration's hostility to
scientific inquiry puts the world at risk. Environmental
catastrophe, whether you think the world has been developing
only since Genesis or for eons, is far too serious to
ignore. In preparation for the G8 summit this past summer,
the scientific academies of all G8 nations (including the US
National Academy of Sciences), joined by those of China,
India and Brazil, called on the leaders of the rich
countries to take urgent action to head off global warming.
"The scientific understanding of climate change is now
sufficiently clear to justify prompt action," their
statement said. "It is vital that all nations identify
cost-effective steps that they can take now, to contribute
to substantial and long-term reduction in net global
greenhouse gas emissions."
In its lead editorial, The Financial Times endorsed this
"clarion call," while observing: "There is, however, one
holdout, and unfortunately it is to be found in the White
House where George W. Bush insists we still do not know
enough about this literally world-changing phenomenon."
Dismissal of scientific evidence on matters of survival, in
keeping with Bush's scientific judgment, is routine. A few
months earlier, at the 2005 annual meeting of the American
Association for the Advancement of Science, leading US
climate researchers released "the most compelling evidence
yet" that human activities are responsible for global
warming, according to The Financial Times. They predicted
major climatic effects, including severe reductions in water
supplies in regions that rely on rivers fed by melting snow
and glaciers.
Other prominent researchers at the same session reported
evidence that the melting of Arctic and Greenland ice sheets
is causing changes in the sea's salinity balance that
threaten "to shut down the Ocean Conveyor Belt, which
transfers heat from the tropics toward the polar regions
through currents such as the Gulf Stream." Such changes
might bring significant temperature reduction to northern
Europe.
Like the statement of the National Academies for the G8
summit, the release of "the most compelling evidence yet"
received scant notice in the United States, despite the
attention given in the same days to the implementation of
the Kyoto protocols, with the most important government
refusing to take part.
It is important to stress "government." The standard report
that the United States stands almost alone in rejecting the
Kyoto protocols is correct only if the phrase "United
States" excludes its population, which strongly favours the
Kyoto pact (73 per cent, according to a July poll by the
Program on International Policy Attitudes).
Perhaps only the word "malignant" could describe a failure
to acknowledge, much less address, the all-too-scientific
issue of climate change. Thus the "moral clarity" of the
Bush administration extends to its cavalier attitude toward
the fate of our grandchildren.
Noam Chomsky, the eminent US intellectual and author, most
recently, of Imperial Ambitions: Conversations on the
Post-9/11 World, is a professor of linguistics at the
Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Cambridge, Mass.
--
Dan Clore
My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1587154838/thedanclorenecro/
Lord We˙rdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind.
-- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"
This speaks to the kind of nut case Bush is. All fundies should move to
Iraq and the middle east. After all, it's the birth place of
Christianity.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Malignant Design |
06 Nov 2005 09:05:50 PM |
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Either this was too intellectual for me or it was too stupid for my
brain to comprehend. Upon rereading it I'm leaning towards the latter.
Does he have a point other than "Bush doesn't give a ***** about
science."?
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Malignant Design |
06 Nov 2005 11:27:08 PM |
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On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 12:43:36 -0800, Dan Clore <clore@columbia-center.org> wrote:
PRESIDENT George W. Bush favours teaching both evolution and
"Intelligent Design" in schools, "so people can know what
the debate is about." To proponents, Intelligent Design is
the notion that the universe is too complex to have
developed without a nudge from a higher power than evolution
or natural selection.
Which makes a lot of sense, of course, because otherwise you're suggesting that
matter and energy created themselves.
To detractors, Intelligent Design is creationism -- the
literal interpretation of the Book of Genesis -- in a thin
guise, or simply vacuous, about as interesting as "I don't
understand," as has always been true in the sciences before
understanding is reached. Accordingly, there cannot be a
"debate.
The only debate is in the blank mind of the atheist, who can only see one way.
The teaching of evolution has long been difficult in the
United States. Now a national movement has emerged to
promote the teaching of Intelligent Design in schools.
It's the only one that makes scientific sense.
In the interest of fairness, perhaps the president's
speechwriters should take him seriously when they have him
say that schools should be open-minded and teach all points
of view. So far, however, the curriculum has not encompassed
one obvious point of view: Malignant Design.
You obviously don't understand malignant design, or you wouldn't make that
comment.
Ulike Intelligent Design, for which the evidence is zero,
For one such as you who suggests matter and energy created themselves, perhaps
you should avoid a discussion of zero evidence.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Craig T" |
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| Title: Re: Malignant Design |
07 Nov 2005 02:18:56 AM |
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For one such as you who suggests matter and energy created themselves, perhaps
you should avoid a discussion of zero evidence.
Sorry, Duke, but there is evidence that matter and energy can create
itself. It's called the Casimir effect. It was predicted in 1948 and
observed in 1996. Look it up.
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| User: "Mark" |
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| Title: Re: Malignant Design |
07 Nov 2005 02:29:22 AM |
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"Craig T" <craig.tevis@fortbend.k12.tx.us> wrote in
news:1131329936.341516.317590@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
For one such as you who suggests matter and energy created
themselves, perhaps you should avoid a discussion of zero evidence.
Sorry, Duke, but there is evidence that matter and energy can create
itself. It's called the Casimir effect. It was predicted in 1948 and
observed in 1996. Look it up.
***** a bunch o' facts, eh duke? 'cause even homer simpon knows
that "facts are meaningless. you could use facts to prove any-
thing that's even remotely true." and old homer ain't nuttin'
but a cartoon character
--
Mark
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Malignant Design |
07 Nov 2005 09:02:47 AM |
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Sorry, Duke, but there is evidence that matter and energy can create
itself. It's called the Casimir effect. It was predicted in 1948 and
observed in 1996. Look it up.
It seems to be an example of virtual particle exchange. A nook and
cranny of QED. Jack Sarfetti keeps posting on earp drives but I have
not yet met anone else who really believes it would work.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Malignant Design |
07 Nov 2005 11:39:51 PM |
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On 6 Nov 2005 18:18:56 -0800, "Craig T" <craig.tevis@fortbend.k12.tx.us> wrote:
For one such as you who suggests matter and energy created themselves, perhaps
you should avoid a discussion of zero evidence.
Sorry, Duke, but there is evidence that matter and energy can create
itself. It's called the Casimir effect. It was predicted in 1948 and
observed in 1996. Look it up.
Sorry but the matter and the energy must exist first for the casimir. It's says
so. Try again later.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Jesus H Christ" |
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| Title: Re: Malignant Design |
08 Nov 2005 11:34:15 AM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in
news:vbpvm1p4qoescsbfqd72l35va7ckpej6le@4ax.com:
On 6 Nov 2005 18:18:56 -0800, "Craig T"
<craig.tevis@fortbend.k12.tx.us> wrote:
For one such as you who suggests matter and energy created
themselves, perhaps you should avoid a discussion of zero evidence.
Sorry, Duke, but there is evidence that matter and energy can create
itself. It's called the Casimir effect. It was predicted in 1948 and
observed in 1996. Look it up.
virtual particle theories dont answer the issue of where the energy
forming the *cosmos* came *from*, nor why it inflated the way it did, (if
thats even a concept worth considering, string/brane theories for
instance), nor why the baryon asymmetry (matter/antimatter) came out the
way it did.
Sorry but the matter and the energy must exist first for the casimir.
no, the matter/animatter pairs are spontaneously created out of the
vacuum. no other matter or energy is required.
the casimir *effect* allows this to be *measured*, but
particle/antiparticle creation is always going on, regardless.
It's says so. Try again later.
watching the two of you is like watching blind men try to box.
the casimir effect is written up quite well in wikipedia.
then go and read the section on the big bang, both of you.
sheesh.
duke
jesus
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| User: "G*rd*n" |
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| Title: Re: Malignant Design |
07 Nov 2005 01:32:43 AM |
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Dan Clore <clore@columbia-center.org> wrote:
PRESIDENT George W. Bush favours teaching both evolution and
"Intelligent Design" in schools, "so people can know what
the debate is about." To proponents, Intelligent Design is
the notion that the universe is too complex to have
developed without a nudge from a higher power than evolution
or natural selection.
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net>:
Which makes a lot of sense, of course, because otherwise you're suggesting that
matter and energy created themselves.
You're confusing creation with evolution. It is true they
are sort of mixed up in some religious texts, but they aren't
mixed up in science. Maybe you should try to learn something
about what you're criticizing, or would that be just too
absurd?
...
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Malignant Design |
07 Nov 2005 11:43:25 AM |
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On Mon, 7 Nov 2005 01:32:43 +0000 (UTC), (G*rd*n) wrote:
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net>:
Which makes a lot of sense, of course, because otherwise you're suggesting that
matter and energy created themselves.
You're confusing creation with evolution.
No I'm not. God created and evolution is his way.
God created the big bang, and the universe, including humankind, evolved from
there.
It is true they
are sort of mixed up in some religious texts, but they aren't
mixed up in science. Maybe you should try to learn something
about what you're criticizing, or would that be just too
absurd?
It's pretty clear you just pointed your finger at yourself.
Evolution is God's way, and creationism is a subject heavily debated amongst
atheist circles.
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Jesus H Christ" |
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| Title: Re: Malignant Design |
08 Nov 2005 11:12:34 AM |
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duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in
news:f8fum1hkuc6e76qo442ch5pts17kdg594n@4ax.com:
On Mon, 7 Nov 2005 01:32:43 +0000 (UTC), (G*rd*n) wrote:
duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net>:
Which makes a lot of sense, of course, because otherwise you're
suggesting that matter and energy created themselves.
You're confusing creation with evolution.
No I'm not.
Sorry, but it certainly looks like you are.
God created and evolution is his way.
Okay, whatever.
God created the big bang, and the universe, including humankind,
evolved from there.
cosmology doesnt include biological evolution.
biological evolution doesnt require cosmology.
you're confusing evolution with physics.
you need to go back to school. seriously.
It is true they
are sort of mixed up in some religious texts, but they aren't
mixed up in science. Maybe you should try to learn something
about what you're criticizing, or would that be just too
absurd?
It's pretty clear you just pointed your finger at yourself.
You're so confused you cant even realise the obvious when it's pointed
out to you.
here's a tip - PHYSICS->COSMOLOGY BIOLOGY->EVOLUTION.
Got it?
Evolution is God's way, and creationism is a subject heavily debated
amongst atheist circles.
your argument still fails to address that evolution and cosmology are
INDEPENDENT scientific theories.
let me put it this way; you're ignorant of what science claims and
where it claims it.
you REALLY need to go read about this before opening your mouth again.
duke
jesus
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