| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"desertphile@hot mail. com Desertphile, American Patriot" |
| Date: |
15 Mar 2005 04:09:51 PM |
| Object: |
Man of God put down Bible, picked up pistol |
Posted on Mon, Mar. 14, 2005
Gunman who killed 7 at church service targeted people, police say
BY JOHN DIEDRICH
Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
MILWAUKEE - (KRT) - Terry W. Ratzmann arrived at a Brookfield,
Wis., hotel prior to his church's service Saturday, carrying a
Bible in a briefcase and speaking to fellow parishioners, police
revealed Monday.
But then Ratzmann left for home where he apparently exchanged his
Bible for his Beretta 9 mm handgun and plenty of ammunition. He
returned to the hotel and, wearing dark sunglasses, silently
entered the church service and opened fire, and at one point
looked a 12-year-old boy in the eye before firing at him, the
boy's father said.
Ratzmann apparently targeted certain people including the church's
pastor, Randy Gregory, his wife and 16-year-old son, authorities
said. Others were hit because they sat near the pastor.
Firing 22 shots in a minute, the 44-year-old engineer shot 11
people, killing seven before turning the gun on himself.
On Monday, authorities discounted Ratzmann's current job status as
a motive, saying his job as a contractor for GE Healthcare in
Waukesha was due to end March 25 but he wasn't being fired and
co-workers and bosses didn't indicate he had problems.
Officials, instead, focused their search for a motive on
Ratzmann's relationship with the Living Church of God, a small
congregation he joined four or five years ago and whose services
he regularly attended at the Sheraton Milwaukee Brookfield Hotel.
They are studying the church membership, its leadership and a
sermon given in a service at the same hotel Feb. 26, which
Ratzmann left early without giving the closing prayer, as he was
scheduled to do.
"We believe that the motive has something to do with the church
and the church services, more so than any other possible motive,"
said Brookfield police Capt. Phil Horter. "We are looking at the
church totality."
In that Feb. 26 service, a taped sermon focused on how bad fortune
befalls those who make ungodly choices, according to a
parishioner, who was there and had known Ratzmann for years. That
woman said Ratzmann had struggled with unemployment in recent
years. Others who knew Ratzmann said he had lost a job he loved
three years ago.
A Living Church of God official Monday said the church is
investigating the Feb. 26 sermon but "it had nothing to do with
prophecy or any kind of sensational topic," said Charles Bryce,
the church's national director of administration. "It was just
about basic Christian living."
Speaking at Froedtert Lutheran Memorial Hospital where three
church members are recovering from gunshot wounds, Bryce said,
"There are some people who are saying that perhaps he was called
upon to give the closing prayer and just got kind of nervous at
the end, and that's why he walked out."
Horter said Ratzmann had given the closing prayer before and had
left a service early, but witnesses said he had never walked out
on his obligation to give the prayer.
Ratzmann did not come to the March 5 service, parishioners said.
He came early on Saturday, but then left and police aren't sure
why, Horter said.
Also Monday, police released tapes of 911 calls placed from inside
the meeting room where the shooting occurred. They paint a
terrifying picture of the rampage.
"Oh my, one of my friends is laying on the floor. I think she's
dead. Oh this is awful. This is a massacre," one caller said.
Another said, "We thought it was just a balloon going off. And
someone said, `This is real. This is real.'"
Police continue to interview the nearly 60 people who were at the
church service. Detectives also are examining four computers -
three from Ratzmann's home and one from his work place that hold
thousands of files including dozens that are encrypted, Horter
said. Detectives and an FBI agent are doing that analysis.
Ratzmann, who reloaded during the shooting, apparently
deliberately shot at Pastor Randy Gregory, his wife and his
16-year-old son. The pastor and his son, James, both of Gurnee,
Ill., were killed. His wife, Marjean, remained in critical
condition at Froedtert.
"Part of that comes from the fact that three members of the
pastor's family were victims. That would lead anyone to conclude
or speculate those people were possibly targeted," Horter said.
Police think others were hit because they were close to the
pastor's family.
At one point, David Mohr - who had known Ratzmann for years -
confronted him by name and said, "Stop, stop. Why?" said one
church member, Ella Frazier. Ratzmann then fired a few more times
before killing himself, police said.
The federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms said Ratzmann
bought the Beretta used in the shooting at Fletcher Arms in
Waukesha on June 8, and a .22-caliber rifle, which was not used in
the shooting, at a rural Wisconsin gun shop in 1982. The rifle,
along with a box of 9 mm ammunition was found at his New Berlin
home he shared with his mother and sister, police said. The box
was missing roughly the number of rounds fired at the hotel,
police said.
Ratzmann previously had used the Beretta with someone from the
church, but officials didn't say when or where that occurred.
Authorities said they were entering a new phase of the
investigation Monday, examining evidence and continuing
interviews, hoping to get answers for the victims' families and
the public. However, they cautioned they may never know what
snapped in Ratzmann's mind.
"You are looking for logic in an illogical act and we may not be
able to provide that," said Waukesha District Attorney Paul
Bucher.
---
(Milwaukee Journal Sentinel correspondents Dave Umhoefer and
Jacqueline Seibel contributed to this report.)
---
http://lastliberal.org
Free random & sequential signature changer http://holysmoke.org/sig
"Humankind will not be free until the last Kremlin commissar is
strangled with the entrails of the last Pentagon chief of staff." --
Edward Abbey
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| User: "DianaC" |
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| Title: Re: Man of God put down Bible, picked up pistol |
15 Mar 2005 05:23:48 PM |
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<desertphile@hot mail. com (Desertphile, American Patriot)> wrote in message
news:39p4poF5v7votU2@individual.net...
Posted on Mon, Mar. 14, 2005
Gunman who killed 7 at church service targeted people, police say
One is tempted to sigh in relief; it would be rather ironic if the man were
actually targeting candles and missed.
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| User: "Frank J Warner" |
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| Title: Re: Man of God put down Bible, picked up pistol |
16 Mar 2005 03:46:06 PM |
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In article <88KZd.6653$Z07.2307@trnddc02>, DianaC
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:
<desertphile@hot mail. com (Desertphile, American Patriot)> wrote in message
news:39p4poF5v7votU2@individual.net...
Posted on Mon, Mar. 14, 2005
Gunman who killed 7 at church service targeted people, police say
One is tempted to sigh in relief; it would be rather ironic if the man were
actually targeting candles and missed.
I'm really rather shocked at your comment, Diana. When I saw your name
in this thread I expect a much different response. Was the above an
attempt at gallows humor?
-Frank
--
fwarner1-at-franksknives-dot-com
Here's some of my work:
http://www.franksknives.com/
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| User: "desertphile@hot mail. com Desertphile, American Patriot" |
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| Title: Re: Man of God put down Bible, picked up pistol |
15 Mar 2005 08:11:23 PM |
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On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 23:23:48 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:
<desertphile@hot mail. com (Desertphile, American Patriot)> wrote in message
news:39p4poF5v7votU2@individual.net...
Gunman who killed 7 at church service targeted people, police say
One is tempted to sigh in relief; it would be rather ironic if
the man were actually targeting candles and missed.
Yeah, and if only he had been subjected to "the" so-called "ten
commandments" while in school none of this would have happened.
Oh, wait a minute. He was a devout Christian and without question
knew "the" so-called "ten commandments" by heart. Golly, what of
what could have gone wrong?
---
http://lastliberal.org
Free random & sequential signature changer http://holysmoke.org/sig
"Why do I write? I write to entertain my friends and to exasperate our
enemies. To unfold the folded lie, to record to truth of our time, and, of
course, to promote esthetic bliss." -- Edward Abbey
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| User: "Ronald 224" |
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| Title: Re: Man of God put down Bible, picked up pistol |
16 Mar 2005 06:24:52 PM |
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<desertphile@hot mail. com (Desertphile, American Patriot)> wrote in message
news:39piukF62nnlaU1@individual.net...
On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 23:23:48 GMT, "DianaC"
<dianaiad@vernoyoudontizon.net> wrote:
<desertphile@hot mail. com (Desertphile, American Patriot)> wrote in
message
news:39p4poF5v7votU2@individual.net...
Gunman who killed 7 at church service targeted people, police say
One is tempted to sigh in relief; it would be rather ironic if
the man were actually targeting candles and missed.
Yeah, and if only he had been subjected to "the" so-called "ten
commandments" while in school none of this would have happened.
Oh, wait a minute. He was a devout Christian and without question
knew "the" so-called "ten commandments" by heart. Golly, what of
what could have gone wrong?
He snapped! Went looney mad.
---
http://lastliberal.org
Free random & sequential signature changer http://holysmoke.org/sig
"Why do I write? I write to entertain my friends and to exasperate our
enemies. To unfold the folded lie, to record to truth of our time, and, of
course, to promote esthetic bliss." -- Edward Abbey
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| User: "quibbler" |
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| Title: Re: Man of God put down Bible, picked up pistol |
15 Mar 2005 05:59:37 PM |
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In article <39p4poF5v7votU2@individual.net>, desertphile@hot says...
But then Ratzmann left for home where he apparently exchanged his
Bible for his Beretta 9 mm handgun and plenty of ammunition. He
returned to the hotel and, wearing dark sunglasses
He obviously didn't pay close enough attention to Samuel L. Jackson who
advised the use of an AK-47, "When you absolutely, positively got to
kill every ***** in the room, accept no substitutes."
Ratzmann apparently targeted certain people including the church's
pastor, Randy Gregory, his wife and 16-year-old son, authorities
said. Others were hit because they sat near the pastor.
It most likely was a dispute of religious minutiae, like how many angels
could dance on the rim of a 9mm hollow point.
--
____________________________________________________
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
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| User: "desertphile@hot mail. com Desertphile, American Patriot" |
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| Title: Re: Man of God put down Bible, picked up pistol |
15 Mar 2005 08:16:49 PM |
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On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 16:59:37 -0700, quibbler
<quibbler247@yahoo.com> wrote:
In article <39p4poF5v7votU2@individual.net>, desertphile@hot says...
But then Ratzmann left for home where he apparently exchanged his
Bible for his Beretta 9 mm handgun and plenty of ammunition. He
returned to the hotel and, wearing dark sunglasses
He obviously didn't pay close enough attention to Samuel L. Jackson who
advised the use of an AK-47, "When you absolutely, positively got to
kill every ***** in the room, accept no substitutes."
In FidoNet's HOLYSMOKE message conference there was a somewhat
funny "tag line" that said "A man with a gun is less dangerous
than a man with a Bible and a gun." Unfortunately, most
participants in the message base knew it was too often true.
Ratzmann apparently targeted certain people including the church's
pastor, Randy Gregory, his wife and 16-year-old son, authorities
said. Others were hit because they sat near the pastor.
It most likely was a dispute of religious minutiae, like how many
angels could dance on the rim of a 9mm hollow point.
The Sheriff's office are now considering it a religion-motivated
killing sprew.
Freaky how cults spawn these people and never seem to realize they
often end up paying the price themselves.
It's also so ***** sad. I grieve for the victims and the falimy
members. I just hope others in his cult do not follow suit.
--
____________________________________________________
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins
---
http://lastliberal.org
Free random & sequential signature changer http://holysmoke.org/sig
"A shelf of classics for our young adults: Tolkien, Hesse, Casteneda,
Kerouac, Salinger, Tom Robbins, and _The Last Whole Earth Catalog_."
-- Edward Abbey
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| User: "Hector Plasmic" |
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| Title: Re: Man of God put down Bible, picked up pistol |
18 Mar 2005 10:36:58 AM |
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In FidoNet's HOLYSMOKE message conference
there was a somewhat funny "tag line" that said
"A man with a gun is less dangerous than a man
with a Bible and a gun." Unfortunately, most
participants in the message base knew it was
too often true.
Of course. Anyone who is convinced that he can be ordered to kill by
some imaginary authority which supercedes the value of human life and
leaves messages in ancient texts is potentially more dangerous than yer
run of the mill guy. He has a mind set that allows him to kill anyone
who disagrees with him and feel good about it.
OTOH, keep in mind that it's good guys with guns who stop bad guys with
guns, not good guys waving palm fronds. Being a man without a gun
makes everyone else more dangerous.
Hec
http://hectorplasmic.com
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| User: "desertphile@hot mail. com Desertphile, American Patriot" |
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| Title: Re: Man of God put down Bible, picked up pistol |
18 Mar 2005 11:26:35 AM |
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On 18 Mar 2005 08:36:58 -0800, "Hector Plasmic"
<hec@hectorplasmic.com> wrote:
In FidoNet's HOLYSMOKE message conference
there was a somewhat funny "tag line" that said
"A man with a gun is less dangerous than a man
with a Bible and a gun." Unfortunately, most
participants in the message base knew it was
too often true.
Of course. Anyone who is convinced that he can be ordered to kill by
some imaginary authority which supercedes the value of human life and
leaves messages in ancient texts is potentially more dangerous than yer
run of the mill guy. He has a mind set that allows him to kill anyone
who disagrees with him and feel good about it.
You mean George W Bush. But certainly there have been a great many
others.... which makes one wonder why the USA and other more
civilized countries do not try to help the victims and start some
kind of prevention program.
According to the "Encyclopedia of Serial Killers," 85% of known
serial killers (using the FBI's definition) have been USA citizens
born and raised. This may be due to the FBI's criteria being
uniquely American, or it might be due to American society being
totally fucked.
OTOH, keep in mind that it's good guys with guns who stop bad guys with
guns, not good guys waving palm fronds. Being a man without a gun
makes everyone else more dangerous.
Certainly; the deterrence of an armed society is fairly high, even
though the cost of that deterrence in dead innocents is rather
high also. The problem is that there is a tiny, but alarmingly
destructive, minority of citizens who ignore deterrence and do not
care if they live of die: modern American society, where the
standard of living is low, seems to breed people who ignore fatal
deterrants.
Hec
http://hectorplasmic.com
---
http://lastliberal.org
Free random & sequential signature changer http://holysmoke.org/sig
"You can't study the darkness by flooding it with light." -- Edward
Abbey
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| User: "Hector Plasmic" |
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| Title: Re: Man of God put down Bible, picked up pistol |
18 Mar 2005 12:21:15 PM |
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Of course. Anyone who is convinced that he can be ordered to kill
by some imaginary authority which supercedes the value of human
life and leaves messages in ancient texts is potentially more
dangerous than yer run of the mill guy. He has a mind set that
allows
him to kill anyone who disagrees with him and feel good about it.
You mean George W Bush.
And Bill Clinton and Jesse Jackson, for that matter. Politics has
little to do with it.
OTOH, keep in mind that it's good guys with guns who stop
bad guys with guns, not good guys waving palm fronds.
Being a man without a gun makes everyone else more
dangerous.
Certainly; the deterrence of an armed society is fairly high,
even though the cost of that deterrence in dead innocents
is rather high also.
The highest cost in dead innocents _always_ occurs when those innocents
are unable to defend themselves against those who would harm them. But
don't take my word for it -- check any history text. Or go ask a
native American.
Hec
http://hectorplasmic.com
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| User: "desertphile@hot mail. com Desertphile, American Patriot" |
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| Title: Re: Man of God put down Bible, picked up pistol |
18 Mar 2005 08:49:37 PM |
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On 18 Mar 2005 10:21:15 -0800, "Hector Plasmic"
<hec@hectorplasmic.com> wrote:
Of course. Anyone who is convinced that he can be ordered to kill
by some imaginary authority which supercedes the value of human
life and leaves messages in ancient texts is potentially more
dangerous than yer run of the mill guy. He has a mind set that allows
him to kill anyone who disagrees with him and feel good about it.
You mean George W Bush.
And Bill Clinton and Jesse Jackson, for that matter. Politics has
little to do with it.
Clinton ordered the deaths of thousands of innocent / defenseless
people. Who did Jesse Jackson kill? I ain't saying he did not, or
that he would not.... he rather strikes me as a racist bigot who
would certainly kill people for "a higher purpose."
Certainly; the deterrence of an armed society is fairly high,
even though the cost of that deterrence in dead innocents
is rather high also.
The highest cost in dead innocents _always_ occurs when those innocents
are unable to defend themselves against those who would harm them. But
don't take my word for it -- check any history text. Or go ask a
native American.
Of course. My point is, American society is willing to pay that
cost even as it bitches and complains about that cost. I would
very much rather life in a well-armed violent society than an
unarmed violent society.
Hec
http://hectorplasmic.com
---
http://lastliberal.org
Free random & sequential signature changer http://holysmoke.org/sig
"The more fantastic an ideology or theology, the more fanatic its
adherents." -- Edward Abbey
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: Man of God put down Bible, picked up pistol |
15 Mar 2005 09:59:54 PM |
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desertphile@hot mail. com (Desertphile, American Patriot) wrote:
The Sheriff's office are now considering it a religion-motivated
killing sprew.
Now try to find a Wiccan or Pagani related killing spree. There just
aren't any. There _is_ differences between death-centric cults that
focus on a pretend "after life" (while this one remains practice) and
life-affirming religions.
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
Scientology crooks: http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
Scientology murder: http://PerkinsTragedy.org
Improving the herd: http://www.rightard.org/
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Man of God put down Bible, picked up pistol |
15 Mar 2005 10:58:44 PM |
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The Sheriff's office are now considering it a religion-motivated
killing sprew.
Now try to find a Wiccan or Pagani related killing spree. There just
aren't any. There _is_ differences between death-centric cults that
focus on a pretend "after life" (while this one remains practice) and
life-affirming religions.
This is a good point.
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| User: "wcb" |
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| Title: Re: Man of God put down Bible, picked up pistol |
16 Mar 2005 12:00:09 PM |
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wrote:
The Sheriff's office are now considering it a religion-motivated
killing sprew.
Now try to find a Wiccan or Pagani related killing spree. There just
aren't any. There _is_ differences between death-centric cults that
focus on a pretend "after life" (while this one remains practice) and
life-affirming religions.
This is a good point.
No Atheist mothers killing infant sons or daughters because
they are the anti-Christ.
--
Cheerful Charlie
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Man of God put down Bible, picked up pistol |
16 Mar 2005 12:50:10 PM |
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The Sheriff's office are now considering it a religion-motivated
killing sprew.
Now try to find a Wiccan or Pagani related killing spree. There
just
aren't any. There _is_ differences between death-centric cults
that
focus on a pretend "after life" (while this one remains practice)
and
life-affirming religions.
This is a good point.
No Atheist mothers killing infant sons or daughters because
they are the anti-Christ.
No just because they are unwanted.
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| User: "Christopher A. Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Man of God put down Bible, picked up pistol |
16 Mar 2005 12:54:23 PM |
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On 16 Mar 2005 10:50:10 -0800, wrote:
The Sheriff's office are now considering it a religion-motivated
killing sprew.
Now try to find a Wiccan or Pagani related killing spree. There
just
aren't any. There _is_ differences between death-centric cults
that
focus on a pretend "after life" (while this one remains practice)
and
life-affirming religions.
This is a good point.
No Atheist mothers killing infant sons or daughters because
they are the anti-Christ.
No just because they are unwanted.
No atheist mothers killing infant sons or daughters. Period.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Man of God put down Bible, picked up pistol |
16 Mar 2005 01:27:15 PM |
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Christopher A. Lee wrote:
On 16 Mar 2005 10:50:10 -0800, wrote:
The Sheriff's office are now considering it a
religion-motivated
killing sprew.
Now try to find a Wiccan or Pagani related killing spree.
There
just
aren't any. There _is_ differences between death-centric cults
that
focus on a pretend "after life" (while this one remains
practice)
and
life-affirming religions.
This is a good point.
No Atheist mothers killing infant sons or daughters because
they are the anti-Christ.
No just because they are unwanted.
No atheist mothers killing infant sons or daughters. Period.
I've heard it happens in China a lot. To be fair most atheists that I
know personally have good moral and ethical character.
.
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: Man of God put down Bible, picked up pistol |
17 Mar 2005 03:14:57 AM |
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On 16 Mar 2005 11:27:15 -0800, wrote:
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
On 16 Mar 2005 10:50:10 -0800, wrote:
The Sheriff's office are now considering it a
religion-motivated
killing sprew.
Now try to find a Wiccan or Pagani related killing spree.
There
just
aren't any. There _is_ differences between death-centric cults
that
focus on a pretend "after life" (while this one remains
practice)
and
life-affirming religions.
This is a good point.
No Atheist mothers killing infant sons or daughters because
they are the anti-Christ.
No just because they are unwanted.
No atheist mothers killing infant sons or daughters. Period.
I've heard it happens in China a lot.
I've heard a lot of things in my lifetime. Where you get into trouble
is taking the things you hear seriously without doing a bit of
checking first.
To be fair most atheists that I know personally have good moral and ethical character.
To be fair, so do most Christians I know personally. <G>
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Man of God put down Bible, picked up pistol |
17 Mar 2005 11:16:41 PM |
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John Baker wrote:
On 16 Mar 2005 11:27:15 -0800, wrote:
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
On 16 Mar 2005 10:50:10 -0800, wrote:
The Sheriff's office are now considering it a
religion-motivated
killing sprew.
Now try to find a Wiccan or Pagani related killing spree.
There
just
aren't any. There _is_ differences between death-centric
cults
that
focus on a pretend "after life" (while this one remains
practice)
and
life-affirming religions.
This is a good point.
No Atheist mothers killing infant sons or daughters because
they are the anti-Christ.
No just because they are unwanted.
No atheist mothers killing infant sons or daughters. Period.
I've heard it happens in China a lot.
I've heard a lot of things in my lifetime. Where you get into trouble
is taking the things you hear seriously without doing a bit of
checking first.
To be fair most atheists that I know personally have good moral and
ethical character.
To be fair, so do most Christians I know personally. <G>
Thank you for saying so.
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| User: "desertphile@hot mail. com Desertphile, American Patriot" |
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| Title: Re: Man of God put down Bible, picked up pistol |
18 Mar 2005 10:55:06 AM |
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On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 09:14:57 GMT, John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net>
wrote:
On 16 Mar 2005 11:27:15 -0800, wrote:
No atheist mothers killing infant sons or daughters. Period.
I've heard it happens in China a lot.
I've heard a lot of things in my lifetime.
"Steve DuFour" is a Scientology FSM pretending to be a Moonie
etc., and he is in almost everyone's twit filter. It is very
unlikely he believes what he writes, but write his silly crap
merely to disrupt human rights activists in newsgroups.
Where you get into trouble is taking the things you hear
seriously without doing a bit of checking first.
I suspect most of what USA citizens have "heard" about China, the
USSR, and other parts of the world is vastly different from
reality. 99% of the USA media is controlled by radical right-wing
fiends and has been for fifty years---- which has left the USA
citizenry astoundingly provincial and ignorant.
---
http://lastliberal.org
Free random & sequential signature changer http://holysmoke.org/sig
"A man without a horse is like a man without a weapon: stunted and naked."
-- Edward Abbey
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: Man of God put down Bible, picked up pistol |
17 Mar 2005 03:21:44 AM |
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On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:00:09 -0600, wcb <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com>
wrote:
stevejdufour@yahoo.com wrote:
The Sheriff's office are now considering it a religion-motivated
killing sprew.
Now try to find a Wiccan or Pagani related killing spree. There just
aren't any. There _is_ differences between death-centric cults that
focus on a pretend "after life" (while this one remains practice) and
life-affirming religions.
This is a good point.
No Atheist mothers killing infant sons or daughters because
they are the anti-Christ.
People don't do that because they're Christians, they do it because
they're mentally ill. But it does seem that whenever the deeply
religious go off the rails, more often than not their madness centers
around their religious beliefs.
And, although I have no figures to back it up, it also seems as though
there's a significantly higher rate of serious mental illness among
the God-soaked than in the general populace.
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| User: "desertphile@hot mail. com Desertphile, American Patriot" |
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| Title: Re: Man of God put down Bible, picked up pistol |
18 Mar 2005 11:00:52 AM |
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On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 09:21:44 GMT, John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net>
wrote:
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:00:09 -0600, wcb <wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com>
wrote:
No Atheist mothers killing infant sons or daughters because
they are the anti-Christ.
People don't do that because they're Christians, they do it because
they're mentally ill.
What comes first: fundamentalist "thinking" (of any cult, be it
the Jesus cult, Jewish cult, Islam cult, Buddhist, hindu, jains,
etc.) or mental illness? A very great many psychologists and
psychiatrists cannot tell the difference between fundamentalism
and insanity, and I fear no one else can.
But it does seem that whenever the deeply religious go off the
rails, more often than not their madness centers around their
religious beliefs.
Schizophrenia is almost completely seeped in religious imagry.
Delusions and hallucinations of schizophrenics most often are
religious iconography; the few exceptions are almost all paranoic.
It seems to be that the difference between schizophrenia and
fundamentalism is merely an issue of quantity. The behavior is
identical.
And, although I have no figures to back it up, it also seems as though
there's a significantly higher rate of serious mental illness among
the God-soaked than in the general populace.
Well sure. See "The Mind of the Bible Believer" for the issue.
---
http://lastliberal.org
Free random & sequential signature changer http://holysmoke.org/sig
"'Rock': music to hammer out fenders by. Music for vomiting to after a
hard day spreading asphalt. Vietnam music. Imitation-Afro,
industrial air- compressor music." -- Edward Abbey
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Man of God put down Bible, picked up pistol |
15 Mar 2005 05:48:09 PM |
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Thanks DP. I would still like to see the figures comparing the murder
rate for members of this denomination before blaming the church for his
acts.
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| User: "Fredric L. Rice" |
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| Title: Re: Man of God put down Bible, picked up pistol |
15 Mar 2005 09:58:04 PM |
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desertphile@hot mail. com (Desertphile, American Patriot) wrote:
Another said, "We thought it was just a balloon going off. And
someone said, `This is real. This is real.'"
This is an interesting stress comment that's probably more informative
than it would originally appear at first read. "This is real" could
very easily be the response of someone who has been endlessly exposed
to unending mock violence as well as Bush's war crime atrocities in
Iraq on the television and radio, and has suddenly discovered that real
bullets cause real death and real maiming.
"This is real" could sound like it's a statement of surprise at finding
"entertainment" violence actually reflects real crimes out there in the
real world that Americans are so immune to.
"You are looking for logic in an illogical act and we may not be
able to provide that," said Waukesha District Attorney Paul
Bucher.
Or the guy caught the good Christian cult leader screwing his wife.
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
Scientology crooks: http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
Scientology murder: http://PerkinsTragedy.org
Improving the herd: http://www.rightard.org/
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| User: "desertphile@hot mail. com Desertphile, American Patriot" |
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| Title: Re: Man of God put down Bible, picked up pistol |
16 Mar 2005 10:18:27 AM |
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On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 03:58:04 GMT, (Fredric
L. Rice) wrote:
desertphile@hot mail. com (Desertphile, American Patriot) wrote:
Another said, "We thought it was just a balloon going off. And
someone said, `This is real. This is real.'"
Unlike their gods.
This is an interesting stress comment that's probably more informative
than it would originally appear at first read. "This is real" could
very easily be the response of someone who has been endlessly exposed
to unending mock violence as well as Bush's war crime atrocities in
Iraq on the television and radio, and has suddenly discovered that real
bullets cause real death and real maiming.
"This is real" could sound like it's a statement of surprise at finding
"entertainment" violence actually reflects real crimes out there in the
real world that Americans are so immune to.
That is an excellent point. In tame society, people being shot at
tend to disbelieve it is happening. When two gunmen shot at me in
the Silurian Hills in the Mojave desert with a BMG, the first shot
just made me stand there staring at my would-be killers: it took a
second shot to get my running away.
"You are looking for logic in an illogical act and we may not be
able to provide that," said Waukesha District Attorney Paul
Bucher.
Or the guy caught the good Christian cult leader screwing his wife.
That's okay--- the killer's gods have forgiven him for the
massacre and every other one of his sins. (Don't even bother
thinking about the victims and their families: they do not rate.)
---
http://www.ElmerFudd.US/ http://www.notserver.com/
Scientology crooks: http://sf.irk.ru/www/ot3/otiii-gif.html
Scientology murder: http://PerkinsTragedy.org
Improving the herd: http://www.rightard.org/
---
http://lastliberal.org
Free random & sequential signature changer http://holysmoke.org/sig
"The ever-rising cost of living: Someday soon, the corporate
technicians will be locking meters on our noses and charging us a
royalty on the air we breathe." -- Edward Abbey
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