| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Thurston Phoremost" |
| Date: |
17 Oct 2003 03:01:10 AM |
| Object: |
Maybe these Xtians are useful after all? |
Department of Credit Where Credit Due Dept?
http://www.gospelcom.net/moh/WinkPrat/DTM/ContractOnChildrenPart2.htm
(...)
Yet a protected childhood is a relatively new thing, introduced by
Christian reformers. Only a century ago, children in England were made
to work in coal mines because they were considered the only ones with
bones flexible enough for the horrifying conditions. Imagine the
terror of their days in the mine shafts.
Human Flesh Was Cheaper
The simplest job was being a "trapper." A child was lowered 50 feet
down a shaft to squat in the mud in total darkness with trickling
water, beetles, and rats, waiting to open the trap door for other
children pulling coal cars. He would let the coal through and then
close the trap door again. That way, if there was a mine explosion, it
only killed the children between the doors. The trap doors cut off the
exploding gas from spreading further. Little children, seven or eight
years old, would sit in the dark every day, sometimes 18 to 20 hours,
listening for the coal cars. Some went insane. Yet in the mines, that
was the best job.
The children suffered terrible cruelty at the hands of adults, who
bargained for them, used them, and dismissed them as they pleased.
Many working underground were only eight or nine years old, girls as
well as boys. Some began toiling in the pits when they were only four
or five. They only saw the sun on Sundays. There were no hours of
relaxation, their meals were mostly eaten in the dark, and they lived
with parents who devoted them to this life.
Think about the actual pulling of the coal cars. Women or small
children had to crawl on their hands and knees dragging enormous
weights along narrow passageways that were only 18 to 24 inches in
height, and were as wet and slimy as common sewers. Women remained at
this work until the last hour of pregnancy. Boys and girls performed
the work by using a girdle and chain. A girdle was put around their
naked waist. A chain from the carriage was hooked to the girdle and
passed between their legs. Crawling on hands and knees they drew the
carriages after them.
"It is not necessary to describe," says Shaftesbury, the Christian
politician who fought against this horror for most of his life, "how
their sides were blistered, their ankles stained, their backs chafed
from rubbing against the roofs, or how they stumbled in the darkness
and choked in the stifling atmosphere. It is enough to say they were
obliged to do the work of horses or other beasts of the field, only
because human flesh and blood was cheaper in some cases and horse
labor was impossible in others."
(...)
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| User: "TonyaK911" |
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| Title: Re: Stupid is as Stupid Does |
08 Nov 2003 09:49:51 PM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.11.09.03.16.23.671828@eac.org...
On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 18:33:58 +0000, TonyaK911 wrote:
Otherwise you'd know that Judaism had been
responsible for bringing the notion of tolerance into the world long
long
before European enlightemnet and before any atheists started to pop up
among
us.
In your opinion maybe.
Sorry, I don't even buy that much of what is now called the
"Enlightenment" even began in the Eastern hemisphere.
And I don't buy that atheism is something "new."
--
Mark K. Bilbo
"There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."
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| User: "TonyaK911" |
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| Title: Re: Stupid is as Stupid Does |
08 Nov 2003 10:00:58 PM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.11.09.03.16.23.671828@eac.org...
On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 18:33:58 +0000, TonyaK911 wrote:
Otherwise you'd know that Judaism had been
responsible for bringing the notion of tolerance into the world long
long
before European enlightemnet and before any atheists started to pop up
among
us.
In your opinion maybe.
Sorry, I don't even buy that much of what is now called the
"Enlightenment" even began in the Eastern hemisphere.
Tell us about it.
We're desperate to hear your personal version of the History of
Civilization - you know, religious people appreciate a good laugh no less
than the atheists do.
And I don't buy that atheism is something "new."
Really???
Why don't you just name a few reknown atheists which had published anything
on the subject of tolerance before the XVIII Century.
TK9
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Stupid is as Stupid Does |
10 Nov 2003 08:19:06 AM |
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On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 04:00:58 +0000, TonyaK911 wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.11.09.03.16.23.671828@eac.org...
On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 18:33:58 +0000, TonyaK911 wrote:
Otherwise you'd know that Judaism had been
responsible for bringing the notion of tolerance into the world long
long
before European enlightemnet and before any atheists started to pop up
among
us.
In your opinion maybe.
Sorry, I don't even buy that much of what is now called the
"Enlightenment" even began in the Eastern hemisphere.
Tell us about it.
We're desperate to hear your personal version of the History of
Civilization - you know, religious people appreciate a good laugh no less
than the atheists do.
I think that's an exercise for the reader. Meaning, certainly, those who
read.
Of course, you're such the scholar, I'm sure you know what I'm talking
about already. Right?
And I don't buy that atheism is something "new."
Really???
Why don't you just name a few reknown atheists which had published anything
on the subject of tolerance before the XVIII Century.
No let's have you show that nobody was an atheist before the modern era.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
"There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Stupid is as Stupid Does |
10 Nov 2003 10:18:42 AM |
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"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.11.10.14.19.06.265905@eac.org...
On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 04:00:58 +0000, TonyaK911 wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote in message
And I don't buy that atheism is something "new."
Really???
Why don't you just name a few reknown atheists which had published
anything
on the subject of tolerance before the XVIII Century.
No let's have you show that nobody was an atheist before the modern era.
Atheists have to be reknowned before they can have existed?
I'm sure that atheism has been around as long as man has had the facility to
choose.
& there have been plenty of times in human history when it would have been
.... unwise to say that you were an atheist.
Susan
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Stupid is as Stupid Does |
06 Nov 2003 10:46:42 PM |
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"Steve Knight" <wooly@onic.net> wrote in message
news:nhqlqvkcrpd7j8jsvdm80r494ue34pjlal@4ax.com...
On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 23:55:23 GMT, "TonyaK911" <TonK911@excite.com>
wrote:
The
things you don't understand speak more of your comprehension abilities
rather than of the old texts that have been bringing joy and sense to
lives
of billions of people for four thousand years...
Right. Aren't those the same people that burn witches, persecuted
millions and destroyed almost every indigenous culture on Earth?
You aren't talking about the same people she is :-)
Susan
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| User: "Arjen Klaver" |
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| Title: Re: Stupid is as Stupid Does |
06 Nov 2003 08:02:42 PM |
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at news:LbBqb.743$nz.249@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net "TonyaK911"
<TonK911@excite.com> wrote in
news:LbBqb.743$nz.249@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net:
"Arjen Klaver" <chips@stack.nl> wrote in message
news:Xns942C770FD70Echipsstacknl@194.134.35.247...
at news:gixqb.13481$9M3.1560@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net
"Yechidah" <TheHealingShelf@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:gixqb.13481$9M3.1560@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net:
Isaiah Chapter 29
1 Ah, Ariel, Ariel, the city where David encamped! Add ye year to
year, let the feasts come round!
0Mg, p13a53 13ar|\| pR0p3r Eng115h. U vvr173 1!|<3 4 t074| 7VV47.
d0|\|'7 p05t 7h!5 dr1\/1| ||\| 7his N3w59r0u|0. Wh0 7|-|3 h3!!
c4n/l!|<35 70 r34d 7|-|| b1b13 n0|\|53n$ 4nyvv4y ????>?>?
Greetings,
Arjen Klaver
(practising my Ub3r 1337 m4d |v|0|\Key sk1llzz. At least this is
easier to understand then these bible quotes!)
<snip>
Please stay away from the Jewish culture group if you don't want hear
what normal people thing of those of you deprived of basic
spirituality.
It was posted to alt.atheism which is my group so I replied.
So it is ok for jews insult atheists, but we are not allowed to reply?
The things you don't understand speak more of your
comprehension abilities rather than of the old texts that have been
bringing joy and sense to lives of billions of people for four
thousand years...
Old texts don't have comprehension abilities, you should know that.
By the way, you suck at English. This is probably because you read too
much in the bible/torah or whatever. ;-)
Arjen Klaver
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| User: "TonyaK911" |
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| Title: Re: Stupid is as Stupid Does |
06 Nov 2003 08:27:16 PM |
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"Arjen Klaver" <chips@stack.nl> wrote in message
news:Xns942C1F0FE1E67chipsstacknl@194.134.35.158...
at news:LbBqb.743$nz.249@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net "TonyaK911"
<TonK911@excite.com> wrote in
news:LbBqb.743$nz.249@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net:
"Arjen Klaver" <chips@stack.nl> wrote in message
news:Xns942C770FD70Echipsstacknl@194.134.35.247...
at news:gixqb.13481$9M3.1560@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net
"Yechidah" <TheHealingShelf@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:gixqb.13481$9M3.1560@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net:
Isaiah Chapter 29
1 Ah, Ariel, Ariel, the city where David encamped! Add ye year to
year, let the feasts come round!
0Mg, p13a53 13ar|\| pR0p3r Eng115h. U vvr173 1!|<3 4 t074| 7VV47.
d0|\|'7 p05t 7h!5 dr1\/1| ||\| 7his N3w59r0u|0. Wh0 7|-|3 h3!!
c4n/l!|<35 70 r34d 7|-|| b1b13 n0|\|53n$ 4nyvv4y ????>?>?
Greetings,
Arjen Klaver
(practising my Ub3r 1337 m4d |v|0|\Key sk1llzz. At least this is
easier to understand then these bible quotes!)
<snip>
Please stay away from the Jewish culture group if you don't want hear
what normal people thing of those of you deprived of basic
spirituality.
It was posted to alt.atheism which is my group so I replied.
So it is ok for jews insult atheists, but we are not allowed to reply?
The things you don't understand speak more of your
comprehension abilities rather than of the old texts that have been
bringing joy and sense to lives of billions of people for four
thousand years...
Old texts don't have comprehension abilities, you should know that.
The things you don't understand speak of your ability to comprehend them.
Comprende?
By the way, you suck at English.
Does the phrase "you suck at English" deserve to be considered a good
example of English?
This is probably because you read too much.
Yes.
We did not start this crap of a thread on the Jewish culture NG.
One of your atheistic morons came here with his insults.
You people had a choice - either to flame that degenerate "Thurston
Phoremost" <thurston_phoremost@hotmail.com> or to keep trying to insult us.
You've made your choices.
Don't complain when you get back what you sow.
TK9
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| User: "jwk" |
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| Title: Re: Stupid is as Stupid Does |
10 Nov 2003 01:44:03 PM |
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"TonyaK911" <TonK911@excite.com> wrote in message news:<8qDqb.606$6c3.575@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
"Arjen Klaver" <chips@stack.nl> wrote in message
news:Xns942C1F0FE1E67chipsstacknl@194.134.35.158...
at news:LbBqb.743$nz.249@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net "TonyaK911"
<TonK911@excite.com> wrote in
news:LbBqb.743$nz.249@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net:
"Arjen Klaver" <chips@stack.nl> wrote in message
news:Xns942C770FD70Echipsstacknl@194.134.35.247...
at news:gixqb.13481$9M3.1560@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net
"Yechidah" <TheHealingShelf@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:gixqb.13481$9M3.1560@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net:
Isaiah Chapter 29
1 Ah, Ariel, Ariel, the city where David encamped! Add ye year to
year, let the feasts come round!
0Mg, p13a53 13ar|\| pR0p3r Eng115h. U vvr173 1!|<3 4 t074| 7VV47.
d0|\|'7 p05t 7h!5 dr1\/1| ||\| 7his N3w59r0u|0. Wh0 7|-|3 h3!!
c4n/l!|<35 70 r34d 7|-|| b1b13 n0|\|53n$ 4nyvv4y ????>?>?
Greetings,
Arjen Klaver
(practising my Ub3r 1337 m4d |v|0|\Key sk1llzz. At least this is
easier to understand then these bible quotes!)
<snip>
Please stay away from the Jewish culture group if you don't want hear
what normal people thing of those of you deprived of basic
spirituality.
It was posted to alt.atheism which is my group so I replied.
So it is ok for jews insult atheists, but we are not allowed to reply?
The things you don't understand speak more of your
comprehension abilities rather than of the old texts that have been
bringing joy and sense to lives of billions of people for four
thousand years...
Old texts don't have comprehension abilities, you should know that.
The things you don't understand speak of your ability to comprehend them.
Comprende?
By the way, you suck at English.
Does the phrase "you suck at English" deserve to be considered a good
example of English?
This is probably because you read too much.
Yes.
We did not start this crap of a thread on the Jewish culture NG.
One of your atheistic morons came here with his insults.
You people had a choice - either to flame that degenerate "Thurston
Phoremost" <thurston_phoremost@hotmail.com> or to keep trying to insult us.
You've made your choices.
Don't complain when you get back what you sow.
TK9
I just poked my head into this thread. I wasn't planning to
participate because I know you can't reason with some people. But I
can't resist: Do you really think you are cutting us to the quick
with your great wit? I don't recall this Thurston person, so I won't
defend him, but you I know real well. We get your type in aa all the
time. Except they are usually fundy christian instead of fundy
jewish. Trust me, you haven't impressed any aa regulars with your wit
and vitriol.
jwk
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| User: "socode" |
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| Title: Re: Stupid is as Stupid Does |
10 Nov 2003 08:45:38 AM |
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TonyaK911 wrote:
Does the phrase "you suck at English" deserve to be
considered a good example of English?
Do you think that it is not? If so, please explain
what you mean by "good", what you mean by English,
and whether or not the following is "a good example"
of "English".
"I know him: a' was a botcher's 'prentice in Paris,
from whence he was whipped for getting the shrieve's
fool with child,--a dumb innocent, that could not
say him nay."
socode
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| User: "The Revd Terence Fformby-Smythe" |
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| Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews. |
06 Nov 2003 06:37:49 PM |
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On 06 Nov 2003 18:23:08 GMT, TCS
<The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> wrote:
On Thu, 06 Nov 2003 18:16:59 GMT, TonyaK911 <TonK911@excite.com> wrote:
"Born Again Atheist" <michael@buffalo.com> wrote in message
news:a07bedeb.0311060945.79c38ba9@posting.google.com...
thurston_phoremost@hotmail.com (Thurston Phoremost) wrote in message
news:<acb7fa96.0311041352.78017332@posting.google.com>...
karen715j@yahoo.com (Karen J) wrote in message
news:<2855c1c7.0311040751.8c5b2c0@posting.google.com>...
Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews, eh? :)
T.
Do not post to alt.atheism. You are polluting the group. If you need
to have personal relationships with jews post only to their groups.
I agree - atheists only pollute the society.
They should be kept segregated.
*****! You're dense!
You couldn't get a clue if somebody hit you with a 60lb cluehammer.
You won't get through to TonyaK7-11. She's retarded. She actually
believes in this HaSham b"llshit.
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| User: "Thurston Phoremost" |
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| Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews. |
07 Nov 2003 02:18:36 PM |
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(Born Again Atheist) wrote in message news:<a07bedeb.0311060945.79c38ba9@posting.google.com>...
thurston_phoremost@hotmail.com (Thurston Phoremost) wrote in message news:<acb7fa96.0311041352.78017332@posting.google.com>...
karen715j@yahoo.com (Karen J) wrote in message news:<2855c1c7.0311040751.8c5b2c0@posting.google.com>...
Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews, eh? :)
T.
Do not post to alt.atheism. You are polluting the group. If you need
to have personal relationships with jews post only to their groups.
I dump on all religions, and Judaism is a religion. Not just "a"
religion, but the most dangerous one we have at this point in time.
Judaism doesn't kill people, jews kill people.
T.
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| User: "Douglas Berry" |
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| Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews. |
08 Nov 2003 10:49:17 AM |
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Lo, many moons past, on 7 Nov 2003 12:18:36 -0800, a stranger called
by some (Thurston Phoremost) came
forth and told this tale in alt.atheism
Judaism doesn't kill people, jews kill people.
Really?
Joseph Stalin, killed perhaps 40 million people while leading the
Soviet Union. Former seminary student.
Adolf Hitler, started World War II, and approved of the Holocaust
about 20 million dead in Europe and Western Asia. Raised Roman
Catholic.
Hideki Tojo, leader of Japan's military government. Between 1935 and
1945, at least 10 million killed. Devout Shintoist.
Mao-Tse Tung. Architect of the PRC, approved of the Cultural
Revolution. 15-20 million dead. Raised Buddhist.
Pol Pot. Leader of the Khmer Rouge. 3 million dead in Cambodia.
Raised Catholic.
Enver, Talaat, and Jemal. Leaders of the "Young Turks" and oversaw
the Armenian Genocide. 1.5 million killed. The Young Turks were
Muslim.
So, care to name the Jews that even come close to these totals?
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
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| User: "Steve Mading" |
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| Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews. |
06 Nov 2003 02:57:59 PM |
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In talk.atheism Born Again Atheist <michael@buffalo.com> wrote:
: (Thurston Phoremost) wrote in message news:<acb7fa96.0311041352.78017332@posting.google.com>...
:> (Karen J) wrote in message news:<2855c1c7.0311040751.8c5b2c0@posting.google.com>...
:>
:> Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews, eh? :)
:>
:> T.
: Do not post to alt.atheism. You are polluting the group. If you need
: to have personal relationships with jews post only to their groups.
If you use a threaded newsreader (Rather than one the breaks the thread
every time someone alters the subject line), you can see that the
thread was already started in the atheism groups first (for some
reason) and soc.cuture.jewish was actually added later by this
Thurston Phoremost person when he replied to it. (In a threaded
newsreader, the only way a brand new thread starts is if someone
posts a message from scratch. Any time someone uses the reply
or followup button, a threaded reader will be able to tell which post
it was a reply to and keep it "there" in the tree.)
.
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| User: "Thurston Phoremost" |
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| Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews. |
07 Nov 2003 02:26:09 PM |
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Steve Mading <madings@baladi.bmrb.wisc.edu> wrote in message news:<boeckn$si8$4@news.doit.wisc.edu>...
In talk.atheism Born Again Atheist <michael@buffalo.com> wrote:
: (Thurston Phoremost) wrote in message news:<acb7fa96.0311041352.78017332@posting.google.com>...
:> (Karen J) wrote in message news:<2855c1c7.0311040751.8c5b2c0@posting.google.com>...
:>
:> Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews, eh? :)
:>
:> T.
: Do not post to alt.atheism. You are polluting the group. If you need
: to have personal relationships with jews post only to their groups.
If you use a threaded newsreader (Rather than one the breaks the thread
every time someone alters the subject line), you can see that the
thread was already started in the atheism groups first (for some
reason) and soc.cuture.jewish was actually added later by this
Thurston Phoremost person when he replied to it.
***** you're a moron. You are also completely wrong.
(In a threaded
newsreader, the only way a brand new thread starts is if someone
posts a message from scratch. Any time someone uses the reply
or followup button, a threaded reader will be able to tell which post
it was a reply to and keep it "there" in the tree.)
LOL!!
T.
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| User: "Thurston Phoremost" |
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| Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews. |
07 Nov 2003 02:32:39 PM |
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Steve Mading <madings@baladi.bmrb.wisc.edu> wrote in message news:<boeckn$si8$4@news.doit.wisc.edu>...
In talk.atheism Born Again Atheist <michael@buffalo.com> wrote:
: (Thurston Phoremost) wrote in message news:<acb7fa96.0311041352.78017332@posting.google.com>...
:> (Karen J) wrote in message news:<2855c1c7.0311040751.8c5b2c0@posting.google.com>...
:>
:> Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews, eh? :)
:>
:> T.
: Do not post to alt.atheism. You are polluting the group. If you need
: to have personal relationships with jews post only to their groups.
If you use a threaded newsreader (Rather than one the breaks the thread
every time someone alters the subject line), you can see that the
thread was already started in the atheism groups first (for some
reason) and soc.cuture.jewish was actually added later by this
Thurston Phoremost person when he replied to it. (In a threaded
newsreader, the only way a brand new thread starts is if someone
posts a message from scratch. Any time someone uses the reply
or followup button, a threaded reader will be able to tell which post
it was a reply to and keep it "there" in the tree.)
You religious nutters are rarely any good at understanding technology
beyond a very superficial level. That includes all technology, from
usenet posting software to orange juice making machines to lawn mowers
to video recorders.
This is because you people sit around waiting for god to show you how
to make sense of the world around you.
T.
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| User: "TonyaK911" |
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| Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews. |
07 Nov 2003 02:58:14 PM |
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"Thurston Phoremost" <> wrote in message
news:acb7fa96.0311071232.76859097@posting.google.com...
Steve Mading <madings@baladi.bmrb.wisc.edu> wrote in message
news:<boeckn$si8$4@news.doit.wisc.edu>...
In talk.atheism Born Again Atheist <michael@buffalo.com> wrote:
: (Thurston Phoremost) wrote in message
news:<acb7fa96.0311041352.78017332@posting.google.com>...
:> (Karen J) wrote in message
news:<2855c1c7.0311040751.8c5b2c0@posting.google.com>...
:>
:> Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews, eh? :)
:>
:> T.
: Do not post to alt.atheism. You are polluting the group. If you need
: to have personal relationships with jews post only to their groups.
If you use a threaded newsreader (Rather than one the breaks the thread
every time someone alters the subject line), you can see that the
thread was already started in the atheism groups first (for some
reason) and soc.cuture.jewish was actually added later by this
Thurston Phoremost person when he replied to it. (In a threaded
newsreader, the only way a brand new thread starts is if someone
posts a message from scratch. Any time someone uses the reply
or followup button, a threaded reader will be able to tell which post
it was a reply to and keep it "there" in the tree.)
You religious nutters are rarely any good at understanding technology
beyond a very superficial level. That includes all technology, from
usenet posting software to orange juice making machines to lawn mowers
to video recorders.
This is because you people sit around waiting for god to show you how
to make sense of the world around you.
Troll.
I have news for you, troll.
Pleanty of very serious scientists and people who brought technological
innovations into this world happened to be religious people - among them
Guillaume Amontons, Sir Isaac Newton, Elie Metchnikoff, Albert Einstein,
Werner Karl Heisenberg, Thomas Alva Edison, Igor Ivanovich Sikorsky, etc.,
etc., etc....
But don't dispair, li'l ***** - they are hiring atheists now for such
positions as lawn mower salesmen and guys who push video recorders.
TK9
.
|
|
|
| User: "John Baker" |
|
| Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews. |
08 Nov 2003 02:39:40 PM |
|
|
"TonyaK911" <TonK911@excite.com> wrote in message
news:GHTqb.1681$nz.64@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"Thurston Phoremost" < > wrote in message
news:acb7fa96.0311071232.76859097@posting.google.com...
Steve Mading <madings@baladi.bmrb.wisc.edu> wrote in message
news:<boeckn$si8$4@news.doit.wisc.edu>...
In talk.atheism Born Again Atheist <michael@buffalo.com> wrote:
: (Thurston Phoremost) wrote in message
news:<acb7fa96.0311041352.78017332@posting.google.com>...
:> (Karen J) wrote in message
news:<2855c1c7.0311040751.8c5b2c0@posting.google.com>...
:>
:> Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews, eh? :)
:>
:> T.
: Do not post to alt.atheism. You are polluting the group. If you need
: to have personal relationships with jews post only to their groups.
If you use a threaded newsreader (Rather than one the breaks the
thread
every time someone alters the subject line), you can see that the
thread was already started in the atheism groups first (for some
reason) and soc.cuture.jewish was actually added later by this
Thurston Phoremost person when he replied to it. (In a threaded
newsreader, the only way a brand new thread starts is if someone
posts a message from scratch. Any time someone uses the reply
or followup button, a threaded reader will be able to tell which post
it was a reply to and keep it "there" in the tree.)
You religious nutters are rarely any good at understanding technology
beyond a very superficial level. That includes all technology, from
usenet posting software to orange juice making machines to lawn mowers
to video recorders.
This is because you people sit around waiting for god to show you how
to make sense of the world around you.
Troll.
I have news for you, troll.
Pleanty of very serious scientists and people who brought technological
innovations into this world happened to be religious people - among them
Guillaume Amontons, Sir Isaac Newton, Elie Metchnikoff, Albert Einstein,
Werner Karl Heisenberg, Thomas Alva Edison, Igor Ivanovich Sikorsky, etc.,
etc., etc....
Theists often attempt to include Einstein among their numbers, but I'm
afraid that's probably not the case.....
"Scientific research is based on the idea that everything that takes place
is determined by laws
of nature, and therefore this holds for the action of people. For this
reason, a research scientist
will hardly be inclined to believe that events could be influenced by a
prayer, i.e. by a wish
addressed to a Supernatural Being."
[Albert Einstein, 1936, responding to a child who wrote and asked if
scientists pray. Source:
"Albert Einstein: The Human Side", Edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffmann
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a
lie which is being
systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never
denied this but
have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called
religious then it is the
unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science
can reveal it."
[Albert Einstein, 1954, from "Albert Einstein: The Human Side", edited by
Helen Dukas and
Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press]
Eienstein often referred to "God" in a metaphorical sense, but he was not a
religious man by most accounts.
Edison was even more blunt about his lack of belief...
My mind is incapable of conceiving such a thing as a soul. I may be in
error, and man may have a soul; but I simply do not believe it. [Thomas
Edison, Do We Live Again?]
So far as religion of the day is concerned, it is a damned fake... Religion
is all bunk. [Thomas Edison]
All Bibles are man-made. [Thomas Edison]
I have never seen the slightest scientific proof of the religious theories
of heaven and hell, of future life for individuals, or of a personal God.
[Thomas Alva Edison, Columbian Magazine]
I do not believe that any type of religion should ever be introduced into
the public schools of the United States. [Thomas Edison]
The great trouble is that the preachers get the children from six to seven
years of age and then it is almost impossible to do anything with them.
[Thomas Edison, quoted by Joseph Lewis from a personal conversation; source:
Cliff Walker's Positive Atheism's Big List of Quotations]
There are many more examples, particularly in Edison's case, but I think the
point's been made...
But don't dispair, li'l ***** - they are hiring atheists now for such
positions as lawn mower salesmen and guys who push video recorders.
I think we'll save those jobs for little girls with bad attitudes. Tom, Al
and I aren't interested. <G>
TK9
.
|
|
|
| User: "TonyaK911" |
|
| Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews. |
08 Nov 2003 05:22:15 PM |
|
|
"John Baker" <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote in message
news:gwcrb.1496$zc1.847@fe3.columbus.rr.com...
"TonyaK911" <TonK911@excite.com> wrote in message
news:GHTqb.1681$nz.64@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"Thurston Phoremost" < > wrote in message
news:acb7fa96.0311071232.76859097@posting.google.com...
Steve Mading <madings@baladi.bmrb.wisc.edu> wrote in message
news:<boeckn$si8$4@news.doit.wisc.edu>...
In talk.atheism Born Again Atheist <michael@buffalo.com> wrote:
: (Thurston Phoremost) wrote in
message
news:<acb7fa96.0311041352.78017332@posting.google.com>...
:> (Karen J) wrote in message
news:<2855c1c7.0311040751.8c5b2c0@posting.google.com>...
:>
:> Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews, eh? :)
:>
:> T.
: Do not post to alt.atheism. You are polluting the group. If you
need
: to have personal relationships with jews post only to their
groups.
If you use a threaded newsreader (Rather than one the breaks the
thread
every time someone alters the subject line), you can see that the
thread was already started in the atheism groups first (for some
reason) and soc.cuture.jewish was actually added later by this
Thurston Phoremost person when he replied to it. (In a threaded
newsreader, the only way a brand new thread starts is if someone
posts a message from scratch. Any time someone uses the reply
or followup button, a threaded reader will be able to tell which
post
it was a reply to and keep it "there" in the tree.)
You religious nutters are rarely any good at understanding technology
beyond a very superficial level. That includes all technology, from
usenet posting software to orange juice making machines to lawn mowers
to video recorders.
This is because you people sit around waiting for god to show you how
to make sense of the world around you.
Troll.
I have news for you, troll.
Pleanty of very serious scientists and people who brought technological
innovations into this world happened to be religious people - among them
Guillaume Amontons, Sir Isaac Newton, Elie Metchnikoff, Albert Einstein,
Werner Karl Heisenberg, Thomas Alva Edison, Igor Ivanovich Sikorsky,
etc.,
etc., etc....
Theists often attempt to include Einstein among their numbers, but I'm
afraid that's probably not the case.....
"Scientific research is based on the idea that everything that takes place
is determined by laws
of nature, and therefore this holds for the action of people. For this
reason, a research scientist
will hardly be inclined to believe that events could be influenced by a
prayer, i.e. by a wish
addressed to a Supernatural Being."
[Albert Einstein, 1936, responding to a child who wrote and asked if
scientists pray. Source:
"Albert Einstein: The Human Side", Edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh
Hoffmann
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a
lie which is being
systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have
never
denied this but
have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called
religious then it is the
unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science
can reveal it."
[Albert Einstein, 1954, from "Albert Einstein: The Human Side", edited by
Helen Dukas and
Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press]
Eienstein often referred to "God" in a metaphorical sense, but he was not
a
religious man by most accounts.
Is that what you do as well?
Do you see any difference between your militant atheism and Einstein's deep
respect for the Creator of Nature?
TK9
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews. |
07 Nov 2003 11:03:37 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 20:58:14 +0000, TonyaK911 wrote:
Pleanty of very serious scientists and people who brought technological
innovations into this world happened to be religious people - among them
Guillaume Amontons, Sir Isaac Newton, Elie Metchnikoff, Albert Einstein,
Werner Karl Heisenberg, Thomas Alva Edison, Igor Ivanovich Sikorsky, etc.,
etc., etc....
And not once was their religion useful in creating those inventions...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
"There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."
.
|
|
|
| User: "TonyaK911" |
|
| Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews. |
07 Nov 2003 11:32:58 PM |
|
|
"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.11.08.05.03.36.528300@eac.org...
On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 20:58:14 +0000, TonyaK911 wrote:
Pleanty of very serious scientists and people who brought technological
innovations into this world happened to be religious people - among them
Guillaume Amontons, Sir Isaac Newton, Elie Metchnikoff, Albert Einstein,
Werner Karl Heisenberg, Thomas Alva Edison, Igor Ivanovich Sikorsky,
etc.,
etc., etc....
And not once was their religion useful in creating those inventions...
Mark K. Bilbo
How do you know that?
Ivan Petrovich Pavlov (Pavlov's reflex, remember?) was a deeply religious
man. He explicitely wrote that without his belief in G-d he wouldn't have
been able to make any of his discoveries.
Did you ever have a chance to read Metchnikoff's "The Nature of Man" (1938)?
Try reading it - his assessment of importance religion had for his
scientific pursuits might surprise you.
Newton's science was closely related to his theology. In the General
Scholium of his Principia, he states that the sole purpose of his science
was to establish the existence of God (Westfall, 205,290; Clark, 12; Brooke,
p.169; Mandelbrote, p.292,300). It was to combat atheism (Mandelbrote,
p.292), challenge the mechanical explanation, and point to the need for a
wise and benevolent deity and an intelligent Creator (Harrison, p.27). He
believed that the universe was governed by general, natural laws set up by
God, and preserved by special providence.
TK9
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews. |
08 Nov 2003 08:22:42 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 05:32:58 +0000, TonyaK911 wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.11.08.05.03.36.528300@eac.org...
On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 20:58:14 +0000, TonyaK911 wrote:
Pleanty of very serious scientists and people who brought technological
innovations into this world happened to be religious people - among them
Guillaume Amontons, Sir Isaac Newton, Elie Metchnikoff, Albert Einstein,
Werner Karl Heisenberg, Thomas Alva Edison, Igor Ivanovich Sikorsky,
etc.,
etc., etc....
And not once was their religion useful in creating those inventions...
Mark K. Bilbo
How do you know that?
Show how religion can be used to demonstrate anything scientific.
Ivan Petrovich Pavlov (Pavlov's reflex, remember?) was a deeply religious
man. He explicitely wrote that without his belief in G-d he wouldn't have
been able to make any of his discoveries.
So? Does that show an actual connection or just speculation?
Did you ever have a chance to read Metchnikoff's "The Nature of Man" (1938)?
Try reading it - his assessment of importance religion had for his
scientific pursuits might surprise you.
I'd rather see how one can actually generate *actual science beginning
with religion.
Newton's science was closely related to his theology. In the General
Scholium of his Principia, he states that the sole purpose of his science
was to establish the existence of God (Westfall, 205,290; Clark, 12; Brooke,
p.169; Mandelbrote, p.292,300). It was to combat atheism (Mandelbrote,
p.292), challenge the mechanical explanation, and point to the need for a
wise and benevolent deity and an intelligent Creator (Harrison, p.27). He
believed that the universe was governed by general, natural laws set up by
God, and preserved by special providence.
Which belief is utterly irrelevant. Believing "the universe is governed by
general, natural laws" does not have effect on whether it is or not. "Set
up by 'god' and preserved by 'special providence'" cannot be shown.
Science works the same for Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, pagans,
atheists, and agnostics. Belief in gods is arbitrary with regard to
science. The work can be done with any or no belief in gods.
If you want play the correlation game then there is that discoveries in
science have accelerated over time. The discoveries in the 20th exceed
everything prior back to the beginning of recorded history. During that
period, belief among all working scientists has been a minority
(currently, only about 40%).
During the same period--as science accelerated--belief among those
scientists recognized as making the greatest contributions in their fields
has fallen. Currently, at least 90% of the scientists in the US recognized
for major contributions are atheist/agnostic.
Over the same period, more scientists lived than have existed in the
entire span of recorded history prior. A "supermajority" of the largest
group are atheist/agnostic.
If you want to try to push correlation as causality, the numbers will back
you into a corner as more and more *significant science has been done
*without belief than with.
I'm always amused when people who try to link "faith" with science start
listing 19th century (and prior) scientists as their "evidence."
Especially because you *can list them.
Today, just the top, most recognized scientists in the US *alone*
constitute about 2,200 people. At least 90% of which are atheist/agnostic.
So until someone can list at *least 1,980 19th century and prior
scientists who were religious, there isn't even anything to talk about...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
"There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."
.
|
|
|
| User: "Susan Cohen" |
|
| Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews. |
09 Nov 2003 04:15:35 PM |
|
|
"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.11.08.14.22.41.163112@eac.org...
On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 05:32:58 +0000, TonyaK911 wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.11.08.05.03.36.528300@eac.org...
On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 20:58:14 +0000, TonyaK911 wrote:
Pleanty of very serious scientists and people who brought
technological
innovations into this world happened to be religious people - among
them
Guillaume Amontons, Sir Isaac Newton, Elie Metchnikoff, Albert
Einstein,
Werner Karl Heisenberg, Thomas Alva Edison, Igor Ivanovich Sikorsky,
etc.,
etc., etc....
And not once was their religion useful in creating those inventions...
Mark K. Bilbo
How do you know that?
Show how religion can be used to demonstrate anything scientific.
Perhas not to demonstrate something scientific, but I canimagine someone's
religious beliefs serving as the inspiration or the drive to create
something to benefit mankind (or benefit thmselves at others expense -
depends on what the religion is! <-: )
Susan
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
|
| Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews. |
10 Nov 2003 08:47:38 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 22:15:35 +0000, Susan Cohen wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.11.08.14.22.41.163112@eac.org...
On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 05:32:58 +0000, TonyaK911 wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.11.08.05.03.36.528300@eac.org...
On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 20:58:14 +0000, TonyaK911 wrote:
Pleanty of very serious scientists and people who brought
technological
innovations into this world happened to be religious people - among
them
Guillaume Amontons, Sir Isaac Newton, Elie Metchnikoff, Albert
Einstein,
Werner Karl Heisenberg, Thomas Alva Edison, Igor Ivanovich Sikorsky,
etc.,
etc., etc....
And not once was their religion useful in creating those inventions...
Mark K. Bilbo
How do you know that?
Show how religion can be used to demonstrate anything scientific.
Perhas not to demonstrate something scientific, but I canimagine someone's
religious beliefs serving as the inspiration or the drive to create
something to benefit mankind (or benefit thmselves at others expense -
depends on what the religion is! <-: )
Which I'd grant without hesitation. But trying to tie actual scientific
achievement to personal religious belief is a silly argument to attempt.
Of all scientists of human history, most are alive today. Of those alive
today, most are atheist/agnostic. I don't think this is where Tonya wants
to go. <wry-g>
--
Mark K. Bilbo
"There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "L Alpert" |
|
| Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews. |
08 Nov 2003 09:28:32 AM |
|
|
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 05:32:58 +0000, TonyaK911 wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.11.08.05.03.36.528300@eac.org...
On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 20:58:14 +0000, TonyaK911 wrote:
Pleanty of very serious scientists and people who brought
technological innovations into this world happened to be religious
people - among them Guillaume Amontons, Sir Isaac Newton, Elie
Metchnikoff, Albert Einstein, Werner Karl Heisenberg, Thomas Alva
Edison, Igor Ivanovich Sikorsky, etc., etc., etc....
And not once was their religion useful in creating those
inventions... Mark K. Bilbo
How do you know that?
Show how religion can be used to demonstrate anything scientific.
Ivan Petrovich Pavlov (Pavlov's reflex, remember?) was a deeply
religious man. He explicitely wrote that without his belief in G-d
he wouldn't have been able to make any of his discoveries.
So? Does that show an actual connection or just speculation?
Did you ever have a chance to read Metchnikoff's "The Nature of Man"
(1938)? Try reading it - his assessment of importance religion had
for his scientific pursuits might surprise you.
I'd rather see how one can actually generate *actual science beginning
with religion.
Newton's science was closely related to his theology. In the General
Scholium of his Principia, he states that the sole purpose of his
science was to establish the existence of God (Westfall, 205,290;
Clark, 12; Brooke, p.169; Mandelbrote, p.292,300). It was to combat
atheism (Mandelbrote, p.292), challenge the mechanical explanation,
and point to the need for a wise and benevolent deity and an
intelligent Creator (Harrison, p.27). He believed that the universe
was governed by general, natural laws set up by God, and preserved
by special providence.
Which belief is utterly irrelevant. Believing "the universe is
governed by general, natural laws" does not have effect on whether it
is or not. "Set up by 'god' and preserved by 'special providence'"
cannot be shown.
Science works the same for Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, pagans,
atheists, and agnostics. Belief in gods is arbitrary with regard to
science. The work can be done with any or no belief in gods.
If you want play the correlation game then there is that discoveries
in science have accelerated over time. The discoveries in the 20th
exceed everything prior back to the beginning of recorded history.
During that period, belief among all working scientists has been a
minority (currently, only about 40%).
During the same period--as science accelerated--belief among those
scientists recognized as making the greatest contributions in their
fields has fallen. Currently, at least 90% of the scientists in the
US recognized for major contributions are atheist/agnostic.
Over the same period, more scientists lived than have existed in the
entire span of recorded history prior. A "supermajority" of the
largest group are atheist/agnostic.
If you want to try to push correlation as causality, the numbers will
back you into a corner as more and more *significant science has been
done *without belief than with.
I'm always amused when people who try to link "faith" with science
start listing 19th century (and prior) scientists as their "evidence."
Especially because you *can list them.
Today, just the top, most recognized scientists in the US *alone*
constitute about 2,200 people. At least 90% of which are
atheist/agnostic.
So until someone can list at *least 1,980 19th century and prior
scientists who were religious, there isn't even anything to talk
about...
It is my belief the success of Jews is not based soley on religion, but
based on culture. There is a cultural emphasis on education that will lend
itself to a higher percentage of engineering, business and scientific
leaders.
As other cultures move towards this type of emphasis, their individual
percentages in high level contributers will rise as well. It has nothing to
do with being more capable.
.
|
|
|
| User: "TonyaK911" |
|
| Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews. |
08 Nov 2003 10:10:36 AM |
|
|
"L Alpert" <alpertl@xxcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:AY7rb.105502$275.297679@attbi_s53...
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 05:32:58 +0000, TonyaK911 wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.11.08.05.03.36.528300@eac.org...
On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 20:58:14 +0000, TonyaK911 wrote:
Pleanty of very serious scientists and people who brought
technological innovations into this world happened to be religious
people - among them Guillaume Amontons, Sir Isaac Newton, Elie
Metchnikoff, Albert Einstein, Werner Karl Heisenberg, Thomas Alva
Edison, Igor Ivanovich Sikorsky, etc., etc., etc....
And not once was their religion useful in creating those
inventions... Mark K. Bilbo
How do you know that?
Show how religion can be used to demonstrate anything scientific.
Ivan Petrovich Pavlov (Pavlov's reflex, remember?) was a deeply
religious man. He explicitely wrote that without his belief in G-d
he wouldn't have been able to make any of his discoveries.
So? Does that show an actual connection or just speculation?
Did you ever have a chance to read Metchnikoff's "The Nature of Man"
(1938)? Try reading it - his assessment of importance religion had
for his scientific pursuits might surprise you.
I'd rather see how one can actually generate *actual science beginning
with religion.
Newton's science was closely related to his theology. In the General
Scholium of his Principia, he states that the sole purpose of his
science was to establish the existence of God (Westfall, 205,290;
Clark, 12; Brooke, p.169; Mandelbrote, p.292,300). It was to combat
atheism (Mandelbrote, p.292), challenge the mechanical explanation,
and point to the need for a wise and benevolent deity and an
intelligent Creator (Harrison, p.27). He believed that the universe
was governed by general, natural laws set up by God, and preserved
by special providence.
Which belief is utterly irrelevant. Believing "the universe is
governed by general, natural laws" does not have effect on whether it
is or not. "Set up by 'god' and preserved by 'special providence'"
cannot be shown.
Science works the same for Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, pagans,
atheists, and agnostics. Belief in gods is arbitrary with regard to
science. The work can be done with any or no belief in gods.
If you want play the correlation game then there is that discoveries
in science have accelerated over time. The discoveries in the 20th
exceed everything prior back to the beginning of recorded history.
During that period, belief among all working scientists has been a
minority (currently, only about 40%).
During the same period--as science accelerated--belief among those
scientists recognized as making the greatest contributions in their
fields has fallen. Currently, at least 90% of the scientists in the
US recognized for major contributions are atheist/agnostic.
Over the same period, more scientists lived than have existed in the
entire span of recorded history prior. A "supermajority" of the
largest group are atheist/agnostic.
If you want to try to push correlation as causality, the numbers will
back you into a corner as more and more *significant science has been
done *without belief than with.
I'm always amused when people who try to link "faith" with science
start listing 19th century (and prior) scientists as their "evidence."
Especially because you *can list them.
Today, just the top, most recognized scientists in the US *alone*
constitute about 2,200 people. At least 90% of which are
atheist/agnostic.
So until someone can list at *least 1,980 19th century and prior
scientists who were religious, there isn't even anything to talk
about...
It is my belief the success of Jews is not based soley on religion, but
based on culture. There is a cultural emphasis on education that will
lend
itself to a higher percentage of engineering, business and scientific
leaders.
As other cultures move towards this type of emphasis, their individual
percentages in high level contributers will rise as well. It has nothing
to
do with being more capable.
You ain't no Jew, *****.
You are but a primitive provocateur.
Only gullible or the intentionally blind can fall for your tricks.
Keep trying tho: on these NGs you have a good chance to fool a few
atheists...
TK9
.
|
|
|
| User: "L Alpert" |
|
| Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews. |
08 Nov 2003 05:32:27 PM |
|
|
TonyaK911 wrote:
"L Alpert" <alpertl@xxcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:AY7rb.105502$275.297679@attbi_s53...
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 05:32:58 +0000, TonyaK911 wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.11.08.05.03.36.528300@eac.org...
On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 20:58:14 +0000, TonyaK911 wrote:
Pleanty of very serious scientists and people who brought
technological innovations into this world happened to be
religious people - among them Guillaume Amontons, Sir Isaac
Newton, Elie Metchnikoff, Albert Einstein, Werner Karl
Heisenberg, Thomas Alva Edison, Igor Ivanovich Sikorsky, etc.,
etc., etc....
And not once was their religion useful in creating those
inventions... Mark K. Bilbo
How do you know that?
Show how religion can be used to demonstrate anything scientific.
Ivan Petrovich Pavlov (Pavlov's reflex, remember?) was a deeply
religious man. He explicitely wrote that without his belief in G-d
he wouldn't have been able to make any of his discoveries.
So? Does that show an actual connection or just speculation?
Did you ever have a chance to read Metchnikoff's "The Nature of
Man" (1938)? Try reading it - his assessment of importance
religion had for his scientific pursuits might surprise you.
I'd rather see how one can actually generate *actual science
beginning with religion.
Newton's science was closely related to his theology. In the
General Scholium of his Principia, he states that the sole purpose
of his science was to establish the existence of God (Westfall,
205,290; Clark, 12; Brooke, p.169; Mandelbrote, p.292,300). It was
to combat atheism (Mandelbrote, p.292), challenge the mechanical
explanation, and point to the need for a wise and benevolent deity
and an intelligent Creator (Harrison, p.27). He believed that the
universe was governed by general, natural laws set up by God, and
preserved by special providence.
Which belief is utterly irrelevant. Believing "the universe is
governed by general, natural laws" does not have effect on whether
it is or not. "Set up by 'god' and preserved by 'special
providence'" cannot be shown.
Science works the same for Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus,
pagans, atheists, and agnostics. Belief in gods is arbitrary with
regard to science. The work can be done with any or no belief in
gods.
If you want play the correlation game then there is that discoveries
in science have accelerated over time. The discoveries in the 20th
exceed everything prior back to the beginning of recorded history.
During that period, belief among all working scientists has been a
minority (currently, only about 40%).
During the same period--as science accelerated--belief among those
scientists recognized as making the greatest contributions in their
fields has fallen. Currently, at least 90% of the scientists in the
US recognized for major contributions are atheist/agnostic.
Over the same period, more scientists lived than have existed in the
entire span of recorded history prior. A "supermajority" of the
largest group are atheist/agnostic.
If you want to try to push correlation as causality, the numbers
will back you into a corner as more and more *significant science
has been done *without belief than with.
I'm always amused when people who try to link "faith" with science
start listing 19th century (and prior) scientists as their
"evidence." Especially because you *can list them.
Today, just the top, most recognized scientists in the US *alone*
constitute about 2,200 people. At least 90% of which are
atheist/agnostic.
So until someone can list at *least 1,980 19th century and prior
scientists who were religious, there isn't even anything to talk
about...
It is my belief the success of Jews is not based soley on religion,
but based on culture. There is a cultural emphasis on education
that will lend itself to a higher percentage of engineering,
business and scientific leaders.
As other cultures move towards this type of emphasis, their
individual percentages in high level contributers will rise as well.
It has nothing to do with being more capable.
You ain't no Jew, *****.
You are but a primitive provocateur.
Only gullible or the intentionally blind can fall for your tricks.
Keep trying tho: on these NGs you have a good chance to fool a few
atheists...
TK9
??? Now that had a lot of thought put into it.
By chance, are you goyim?
.
|
|
|
| User: "TonyaK911" |
|
| Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews. |
08 Nov 2003 06:57:17 PM |
|
|
"L Alpert" <alpertl@xxcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:e2frb.147128$HS4.1196181@attbi_s01...
TonyaK911 wrote:
"L Alpert" <alpertl@xxcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:AY7rb.105502$275.297679@attbi_s53...
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 05:32:58 +0000, TonyaK911 wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.11.08.05.03.36.528300@eac.org...
On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 20:58:14 +0000, TonyaK911 wrote:
Pleanty of very serious scientists and people who brought
technological innovations into this world happened to be
religious people - among them Guillaume Amontons, Sir Isaac
Newton, Elie Metchnikoff, Albert Einstein, Werner Karl
Heisenberg, Thomas Alva Edison, Igor Ivanovich Sikorsky, etc.,
etc., etc....
And not once was their religion useful in creating those
inventions... Mark K. Bilbo
How do you know that?
Show how religion can be used to demonstrate anything scientific.
Ivan Petrovich Pavlov (Pavlov's reflex, remember?) was a deeply
religious man. He explicitely wrote that without his belief in G-d
he wouldn't have been able to make any of his discoveries.
So? Does that show an actual connection or just speculation?
Did you ever have a chance to read Metchnikoff's "The Nature of
Man" (1938)? Try reading it - his assessment of importance
religion had for his scientific pursuits might surprise you.
I'd rather see how one can actually generate *actual science
beginning with religion.
Newton's science was closely related to his theology. In the
General Scholium of his Principia, he states that the sole purpose
of his science was to establish the existence of God (Westfall,
205,290; Clark, 12; Brooke, p.169; Mandelbrote, p.292,300). It was
to combat atheism (Mandelbrote, p.292), challenge the mechanical
explanation, and point to the need for a wise and benevolent deity
and an intelligent Creator (Harrison, p.27). He believed that the
universe was governed by general, natural laws set up by God, and
preserved by special providence.
Which belief is utterly irrelevant. Believing "the universe is
governed by general, natural laws" does not have effect on whether
it is or not. "Set up by 'god' and preserved by 'special
providence'" cannot be shown.
Science works the same for Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus,
pagans, atheists, and agnostics. Belief in gods is arbitrary with
regard to science. The work can be done with any or no belief in
gods.
If you want play the correlation game then there is that discoveries
in science have accelerated over time. The discoveries in the 20th
exceed everything prior back to the beginning of recorded history.
During that period, belief among all working scientists has been a
minority (currently, only about 40%).
During the same period--as science accelerated--belief among those
scientists recognized as making the greatest contributions in their
fields has fallen. Currently, at least 90% of the scientists in the
US recognized for major contributions are atheist/agnostic.
Over the same period, more scientists lived than have existed in the
entire span of recorded history prior. A "supermajority" of the
largest group are atheist/agnostic.
If you want to try to push correlation as causality, the numbers
will back you into a corner as more and more *significant science
has been done *without belief than with.
I'm always amused when people who try to link "faith" with science
start listing 19th century (and prior) scientists as their
"evidence." Especially because you *can list them.
Today, just the top, most recognized scientists in the US *alone*
constitute about 2,200 people. At least 90% of which are
atheist/agnostic.
So until someone can list at *least 1,980 19th century and prior
scientists who were religious, there isn't even anything to talk
about...
It is my belief the success of Jews is not based soley on religion,
but based on culture. There is a cultural emphasis on education
that will lend itself to a higher percentage of engineering,
business and scientific leaders.
As other cultures move towards this type of emphasis, their
individual percentages in high level contributers will rise as well.
It has nothing to do with being more capable.
You ain't no Jew, *****.
You are but a primitive provocateur.
Only gullible or the intentionally blind can fall for your tricks.
Keep trying tho: on these NGs you have a good chance to fool a few
atheists...
TK9
??? Now that had a lot of thought put into it.
By chance, are you goyim?
.
|
|
|
| User: "L Alpert" |
|
| Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews. |
09 Nov 2003 10:36:14 AM |
|
|
TonyaK911 wrote:
"L Alpert" <alpertl@xxcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:e2frb.147128$HS4.1196181@attbi_s01...
TonyaK911 wrote:
"L Alpert" <alpertl@xxcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:AY7rb.105502$275.297679@attbi_s53...
Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 05:32:58 +0000, TonyaK911 wrote:
"Mark K. Bilbo" <iskanipa-y@hoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.11.08.05.03.36.528300@eac.org...
On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 20:58:14 +0000, TonyaK911 wrote:
Pleanty of very serious scientists and people who brought
technological innovations into this world happened to be
religious people - among them Guillaume Amontons, Sir Isaac
Newton, Elie Metchnikoff, Albert Einstein, Werner Karl
Heisenberg, Thomas Alva Edison, Igor Ivanovich Sikorsky, etc.,
etc., etc....
And not once was their religion useful in creating those
inventions... Mark K. Bilbo
How do you know that?
Show how religion can be used to demonstrate anything scientific.
Ivan Petrovich Pavlov (Pavlov's reflex, remember?) was a deeply
religious man. He explicitely wrote that without his belief in
G-d he wouldn't have been able to make any of his discoveries.
So? Does that show an actual connection or just speculation?
Did you ever have a chance to read Metchnikoff's "The Nature of
Man" (1938)? Try reading it - his assessment of importance
religion had for his scientific pursuits might surprise you.
I'd rather see how one can actually generate *actual science
beginning with religion.
Newton's science was closely related to his theology. In the
General Scholium of his Principia, he states that the sole
purpose of his science was to establish the existence of God
(Westfall, 205,290; Clark, 12; Brooke, p.169; Mandelbrote,
p.292,300). It was to combat atheism (Mandelbrote, p.292),
challenge the mechanical explanation, and point to the need for
a wise and benevolent deity and an intelligent Creator
(Harrison, p.27). He believed that the universe was governed by
general, natural laws set up by God, and preserved by special
providence.
Which belief is utterly irrelevant. Believing "the universe is
governed by general, natural laws" does not have effect on whether
it is or not. "Set up by 'god' and preserved by 'special
providence'" cannot be shown.
| | | | | | | | | | | |
