Maybe these Xtians are useful after all?

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"Thurston Phoremost"
Date:	17 Oct 2003 03:01:10 AM
Object:	Maybe these Xtians are useful after all?

Department of Credit Where Credit Due Dept?
http://www.gospelcom.net/moh/WinkPrat/DTM/ContractOnChildrenPart2.htm
(...)
Yet a protected childhood is a relatively new thing, introduced by
Christian reformers. Only a century ago, children in England were made
to work in coal mines because they were considered the only ones with
bones flexible enough for the horrifying conditions. Imagine the
terror of their days in the mine shafts.
Human Flesh Was Cheaper
The simplest job was being a "trapper." A child was lowered 50 feet
down a shaft to squat in the mud in total darkness with trickling
water, beetles, and rats, waiting to open the trap door for other
children pulling coal cars. He would let the coal through and then
close the trap door again. That way, if there was a mine explosion, it
only killed the children between the doors. The trap doors cut off the
exploding gas from spreading further. Little children, seven or eight
years old, would sit in the dark every day, sometimes 18 to 20 hours,
listening for the coal cars. Some went insane. Yet in the mines, that
was the best job.
The children suffered terrible cruelty at the hands of adults, who
bargained for them, used them, and dismissed them as they pleased.
Many working underground were only eight or nine years old, girls as
well as boys. Some began toiling in the pits when they were only four
or five. They only saw the sun on Sundays. There were no hours of
relaxation, their meals were mostly eaten in the dark, and they lived
with parents who devoted them to this life.
Think about the actual pulling of the coal cars. Women or small
children had to crawl on their hands and knees dragging enormous
weights along narrow passageways that were only 18 to 24 inches in
height, and were as wet and slimy as common sewers. Women remained at
this work until the last hour of pregnancy. Boys and girls performed
the work by using a girdle and chain. A girdle was put around their
naked waist. A chain from the carriage was hooked to the girdle and
passed between their legs. Crawling on hands and knees they drew the
carriages after them.
"It is not necessary to describe," says Shaftesbury, the Christian
politician who fought against this horror for most of his life, "how
their sides were blistered, their ankles stained, their backs chafed
from rubbing against the roofs, or how they stumbled in the darkness
and choked in the stifling atmosphere. It is enough to say they were
obliged to do the work of horses or other beasts of the field, only
because human flesh and blood was cheaper in some cases and horse
labor was impossible in others."
(...)
.

User: "raven1"
Title: Re: Are Jew$ a protected species...?	03 Nov 2003 11:25:50 PM

On 3 Nov 2003 19:56:48 -0800,

(Karen J) wrote:

thurston_phoremost@hotmail.com (Thurston Phoremost) wrote in message news:<acb7fa96.0311021234.7aa9c02b@posting.google.com>...

Jews are what they are because of the continual harassment they have
suffered throughout history at the hands of christians and others.

It is also true that the continual harassment the jews have suffered
throughout history at the hands of christians and others is due to the
way that jews behave.

So are we looking at a "chicken and egg" situation here?

No.

What we also need to realize is that, all through history, jews have
deliberately made themselves different to the rest of us in order to
gain significant competitive advantage.

According to Kevin Macdonald, it is perfectly natural for
humans to become clannish-ethnocentric if they have lived
in civilization for awhile. WE EUROPEANS are the strange
ones. We went straight form uncivilized, harsh-environment
(sociobiologically) natural pair-bonding and then stumbled
into the (sociobiologically) UNSTABLE Socially Imposed
Monogamy of the Greeks/Romans/Catholic Church. SIM is
unstable because if one group forms a clan they will have
advantages, and generally defeat everyone who doesn't do
likewise.

According to Macdonald, our monogamy, excessive altruism,
and individualism are headed for the dustbin of history.
Unless we somehow transcend natural sociobiological forces.

I personally think that we SHOULD try to transcend those
sociobiological forces and join Peter Singer and Eliot
Katz (two of the foremost Animal Welfare activists � both
Jews by the way � I believe � at least Katz's name
sounds Jewish to me).

But how do we avoid the sociobiological law of gravity (people
living in civilization are attracted to clans-ethnocentrism)?

Three Ingredients:
1) Fear the gods. It'll motivate you. Hans Moravec proved the
gods exist in his article "Pigs in Cyberspace"

Utter rubbish. The cited article
http://www.primitivism.com/pigs.htm
is a completely speculative postulation about the possibility of
maintaining human consciousness on a mechanical basis as organic
components of the brain are gradually replaced. Have you any reason to
suggest that such an idea is even remotely possible, much less
relevant?

written in 1992. The Jews don't believe in God, so they no
longer fear him, and will be less motivated.

Oh, so you're not even serious, you're just another obnoxious troll.
Grow up, *****.
.

User: "Karen J"
Title: Re: Are Jew$ a protected species...?	04 Nov 2003 09:51:31 AM

karen715j@yahoo.com (Karen J):

I apologize.
I totally botched Kevin Macdonald's argument. Hopefully I
can give a better rough approximation of the argument
today or tommorow.
karen715j@yahoo.com (Karen J):

According to Macdonald, our monogamy, excessive altruism,
and individualism are headed for the dustbin of history.
Unless we somehow transcend natural sociobiological forces.

I personally think that we SHOULD try to transcend those
sociobiological forces and join Peter Singer and Eliot
Katz (two of the foremost Animal Welfare activists ? both
Jews by the way ? I believe ? at least Katz's name
sounds Jewish to me).

I apologize.
I misspelled Elliot Katz's name.

But how do we avoid the sociobiological law of gravity (people
living in civilization are attracted to clans-ethnocentrism)?

Three Ingredients:
1) Fear the gods. It'll motivate you. Hans Moravec proved the
gods exist in his article "Pigs in Cyberspace"

raven1 <psychedelephant@flashmail.com>:

Utter rubbish. The cited article

http://www.primitivism.com/pigs.htm

is a completely speculative postulation about the possibility of
maintaining human consciousness on a mechanical basis as organic
components of the brain are gradually replaced.

Moravec's second to the last sentence is:
"The very moment we are now experiencing may actually be
(ALMOST CERTAINLY IS) such a distributed mental event,
and MOST LIKELY is a complete fabrication that never
happened physically."
He is the first person that I know of who has said this.
(My CAPS.)
raven1 <psychedelephant@flashmail.com>:

Have you any reason to
suggest that such an idea is even remotely possible, much less
relevant?

There are billions of years left to go in this universe.
Technology will certainly eventually advance to the point
where they can play virtual reality games like the one
we are in. They don't necessarily have to simulate an
entire universe. Just enough so they can hook your little
cybersoul to a supercomputer and you can play whatever
games it is that you like to play.
I know that I'm playing the one I'd like to play.
They'll be doing it over and over.
At least some of them.
Probably in many different galaxies.
For billions of years, perhaps.
karen715j@yahoo.com (Karen J):

written in 1992. The Jews don't believe in God, so they no
longer fear him, and will be less motivated.

raven1 <psychedelephant@flashmail.com>:

Oh, so you're not even serious, you're just another obnoxious troll.

Lots of Jews are atheists.
I'm serious.
raven1 <psychedelephant@flashmail.com>:

Grow up, *****.

Same to ya, dude.
.

User: "Thurston Phoremost"
Title: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews.	04 Nov 2003 03:52:52 PM

(Karen J) wrote in message news:<2855c1c7.0311040751.8c5b2c0@posting.google.com>...
....

raven1 <psychedelephant@flashmail.com>:

Have you any reason to
suggest that such an idea is even remotely possible, much less
relevant?

There are billions of years left to go in this universe.
Technology will certainly eventually advance to the point
where they can play virtual reality games like the one
we are in. They don't necessarily have to simulate an
entire universe. Just enough so they can hook your little
cybersoul to a supercomputer and you can play whatever
games it is that you like to play.

I know that I'm playing the one I'd like to play.

They'll be doing it over and over.
At least some of them.
Probably in many different galaxies.
For billions of years, perhaps.

While the rest of us are flitting around the galaxy in FTL craft, as
cyborg immortals or pure energy beings freed from the limitations of
flesh and blood bodies and the need to eat and ***** and die, the jews
will still be here on earth just as they are today, fussing over
whether they can put meat and cheese together in the same
refrigerator, wrapping thin pieces of leather around their forearms,
tying little wooden cubes to their foreheads, and standing in front of
a stone wall wailing and rocking backwards and forwards like some poor
wretched unloved unwanted madman in a filthy bedlamic lunatic asylum
in Victorian ENGLAND!!!!!!!!
Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews, eh? :)
T.
--
"I grew up in a very god fearing household... thats because every
Sunday god used to come round and beat us all up!" -Alexei Sayle
.

User: "TonyaK911"
Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews.	05 Nov 2003 02:37:12 PM

"Thurston Phoremost" <thurston_phoremost@hotmail.com> wrote:

"I grew up in a very god fearing household... thats because every
Sunday god used to come round and beat us all up!"

it figures!
.

User: "Karen J"
Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews.	05 Nov 2003 09:52:57 PM

(Thurston Phoremost) wrote in message news:<acb7fa96.0311041352.78017332@posting.google.com>...

While the rest of us are flitting around the galaxy in FTL craft,

Some Jews will be uploaded also. The ones who go
back to the original intent of kosher:
Viewing message <cy679pvav1.fsf@agha.cs.uiuc.edu>
From: Gul Agha (agha@cs.uiuc.edu)
Subject: Re: Jhutka or Halal ??
View: Complete Thread (180 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: soc.culture.pakistan.religion, soc.culture.indian,
alt.religion.islam, talk.politics.animals, rec.food.veg,
soc.culture.pakistan
Date: 1999/01/29

An Insult to Jewish Ideals
by Michael Greger
As currently practiced, kosher slaughter is an outrageous violation of
Judaism's basic tenets and heritage. An entire section of the Talmud
is devoted to the commandment, tsa'ar ba'alei hayim , the prevention
of suffering of animals. It is clearly stated in the Code of Jewish
Law, that "it is forbidden, according to the law of the Torah, to
inflict pain upon any living creature." And yet Schechitah, the
orthodox Jewish ritual slaughter method, can be the most barbaric and
certainly the most painful method of slaughter legal in the Western
world.
According to renowned Jewish rabbi Maimonides, the original primary
purpose of these kosher slaughter laws was to ensure a relatively
humane death for the animal compared to other methods at the time and
to protect the health of people eating the meat. Modern realities,
however, have dictated a perverse twisting of these initial good
intentions.
In 1906, the Pure Food and Drug Act was passed which contained USDA
sanitary regulations stipulating that a slaughtered animal must not
fall into the blood of previous killings. This presents no problem for
nonkosher slaughterhouses where steers are supposed to first be
rendered unconscious and then hung up and bled to death. Kosher laws,
however, stipulate that an animal be conscious for slaughter (more
literally "moving"). This has meant in the past shackling and
hoisting.
For beef this procedure involves hanging a half ton, conscious animal
upside down suspended by a chain wrapped around a hind leg. The trade
publication, Meat and Poultry, describes the procedure as follows:
"Shackling and hoisting of conscious animals for ritual slaughter
is an area of our profession in need of major housecleaning...[I
visited a plant where steers were] hung up in a row to await
slaughter. They were hitting the walls, and their bellowing
could be heard out in the parking lot. To get the shackles on the
live cattle, the operation was equipped with a pen with a false
bottom that tripped the animal to make it fall down. In some
plants, the suspended animal's head is restrained by a nose-tong
connected to an air cylinder. Stretching of the neck by pulling
on the nose is painful. Suspension upside-down also causes great
discomfort because the rumen presses down on the diaphragm."
The jerking of the animal off its feet and the its subsequent writhing
in the 2-5 minutes it is suspended before its throat is slit results
in skin slipping from the bone, torn flesh and ligaments and often
ruptured joints, even cannon bone fractures in some instances. A very
painful death.
By 1992 even the American Meat Institute published the statement that
the "practice of hanging live cattle upside-down should be
eliminated." Although every day thousands of cows, calves, and sheep
are still shackled and hoisted in US kosher slaughterhouses, most
kosher packing plants today use an alternative developed by the ASPCA
in which animals can remain standing as they are killed. However, 90
percent of kosher slaughtered veal calves are still being killed by
the shackle and hoist method. Because the installation of more humane
alternatives may initially cost up to $50,000, the kosher slaughter
industry presumably refuses to entirely switch over for financial
reasons. This is a grotesque travesty of any humane intentions the
original dietary laws entailed.
Schechitah is exempted from the Humane Slaughter Act of 1958, which
requires that nonpoultry animals are rendered unconscious before
slaughter. So even kosher animals that are not shackled and hoisted
suffer inordinately, for no matter how sharp or unblemished the
challef (knife) is, EEG studies on calves show that the kosher
slaughter method is neither instantaneous nor painless. Because of
blood flow through the vertebral arteries in the back of the neck,
animals remain conscious as they bleed to death for up to a minute
after their jugular veins and carotid arteries are severed. So next
time you see a "K" don't think Kosher, think K'ev, Hebrew for pain,
ache, suffering, grief.
Orthodox religious authorities selectively interpret the applicability
of ancient laws. The Code of Jewish Law, for example, forbids tying
the legs of an animal in a manner that would cause them pain. But,
while shackling and hoisting is allowed, the suggestion that animals
be rendered unconscious immediately before slaughter is instantly
rebuffed.
Another example of the hypocrisy that comes from interpreting some
laws more strictly than others is the Torah's prohibition on consuming
blood. Kosher meat packers try to remove most of the veins but of
course, one can never get all of the blood out (as much as 20% is left
in the capillaries). In fact, this is why one cannot refrain from
eating animals killed in this manner by merely eating nonkosher
meat. Because the veins in the hindquarters of an animal are smaller
and thus harder to remove, this meat is sold to the general public as
nonkosher. Whatever the method the rabbinical authorities use to
interpret the applicability of ancient laws though, it seems that in
the case of ritual slaughter the original spirit has been twisted and
perverted. Cornell Food Science professor J. Regenstein presented a
paper at a 1992 meat conference in which he argued that kosher
slaughter should be done with the "...utmost concern for the health,
safety, and welfare of both animals and people." The irony, of course,
is that the animals are to be killed, which raises the question is
there such thing as truly humane slaughter? Preslaughter suffering
involved in confinement, mutilation, and transport have not even been
touched upon.
As enunciated by Rabbi Sidney J. Jacobs, author of The Jewish Word
Book,
"The bottom line is that there can be no 'humane' procedure when
slaughter is involved, nor can factory farming ever be made
merciful. Ironically, the dilemma of Jewish ritual slaughter
could be resolved by switching to a vegan diet, the grain-based
diet set forth in Genesis."
Sources and Further Reading
Judaism and Animal Rights, edited by Roberta Kalechofsky, Micah
Publications, Marblehead, MA.
Reciprocal Meat Conference Proceedings, Colorado State University,
June 14-17, 1992.
Judaism and Vegetarianism, Robert H. Schwartz, Micah Publications,
Marblehead, MA.
Contemporary Western Religion:Its successes and failures: 196-199 [a
book].
Voiceless victims:74-79.
Animals and Their Legal Rights:58-61.
Animal's Voice Magazine, vol 6, num 3, 1993:16-17
Food for the Spirit:47-51 [a book]
Animal Liberation, Peter Singer:153-155
Animal Pain, Charles E. Short and Alan Van Ponak,eds., Churchill
Livingstone, NY:22.
From:
http://arrs.envirolink.org/AnimaLife/spring95/Kosher.html
Kosher Slaughter
For Educational Use Only
------------
According to this report, alternate methods have been adopted at
"most" kosher slaughterhouses for cow and steer slaughter, my
information was out of date on the first count. But the treatment of
hanging upside down shackled continues to be inflicted on 90% baby
cows.
Needless to say, those who ridiculed the notion that cows and steer
could be shackled upside down and slaughtered should read the trade
publications quoted above.
---
Peace,
Gul Agha

as
cyborg immortals or pure energy beings freed from the limitations of
flesh and blood bodies and the need to eat and ***** and die, the jews
will still be here on earth just as they are today, fussing over
whether they can put meat and cheese together in the same
refrigerator, wrapping thin pieces of leather around their forearms,
tying little wooden cubes to their foreheads, and standing in front of
a stone wall wailing and rocking backwards and forwards like some poor
wretched unloved unwanted madman in a filthy bedlamic lunatic asylum
in Victorian ENGLAND!!!!!!!!

Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews, eh? :)

T.

User: "Susan Cohen"
Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews.	05 Nov 2003 10:14:44 PM

"Karen J" <karen715j@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2855c1c7.0311051952.227c7c4c@posting.google.com...

thurston_phoremost@hotmail.com (Thurston Phoremost) wrote in message

news:<acb7fa96.0311041352.78017332@posting.google.com>...

While the rest of us are flitting around the galaxy in FTL craft,

Some Jews will be uploaded also. The ones who go
back to the original intent of kosher:

Which is all of us who practice kashrus.

[snip]

An Insult to Jewish Ideals

by Michael Greger

As currently practiced, kosher slaughter is an outrageous violation of
Judaism's basic tenets and heritage.

Too bad this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
The people who came to this conclusion relied on faulty methods of
discovery.
Susan
.

User: "Karen J"
Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews.	06 Nov 2003 12:49:00 PM

"Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message news:<UUjqb.2886$E9.8@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>...

"Karen J" <karen715j@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2855c1c7.0311051952.227c7c4c@posting.google.com...

thurston_phoremost@hotmail.com (Thurston Phoremost) wrote in message

news:<acb7fa96.0311041352.78017332@posting.google.com>...

While the rest of us are flitting around the galaxy in FTL craft,

Some Jews will be uploaded also. The ones who go
back to the original intent of kosher:

Which is all of us who practice kashrus.

[snip]

An Insult to Jewish Ideals

by Michael Greger

As currently practiced, kosher slaughter is an outrageous violation of
Judaism's basic tenets and heritage.

Too bad this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
The people who came to this conclusion relied on faulty methods of
discovery.

Susan

What are your methods of discovery?
Any quotes? Links?
http://www.uscj.org/REIH_57762888.html
"D. The problem with shackling and hoisting is that it causes great
pain to the animals and thus violates the Jewish mandate of tsa'ar
ba'alei hayim (causing pain to animals). The process involves placing
an iron chain around the hind leg of the animal and hoisting the
animal into the air by its hind leg while the rest of the body and
head are suspended downward. Many humane groups have pushed for
legislation banning shackling and hoisting.
"Unfortunately, some anti-Semitic groups have used the issue to
discredit shehitah as well as Jewish law in general. The Jewish
community must work for humane alternatives for hoisting and shackling
(i.e. holding pens which are acceptable to Jewish law).. Of course,
the best way to be consistent with Jewish teachings concerning animals
is to be a vegetarian (op. cit., Schwartz, p.91)."
http://www.tikkun.org/magazine/index.cfm/action/tikkun/issue/tik0307/article/030701d.html
"We Jews rightly consider the Holocaust to be a uniquely tragic
incident in the history of our people and of mankind. But it is also
true that cruelty to animals is strictly forbidden under Jewish law,
and there is an entire code of laws ("Tsa'ar ba'alei hayim," the
commandment to prevent the suffering of living creatures) mandating
that other creatures be treated with compassion.
"Thus, we Jews, especially, should understand that the massive
suffering of animals that is depicted by Patterson and PETA cannot be
allowed to go unnoticed or unopposed, especially the certification as
kosher of many of these animals that spend their lives in misery but
are killed in the prescribed manner."
.

User: "Susan Cohen"
Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews.	06 Nov 2003 09:23:57 PM

"Karen J" <karen715j@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2855c1c7.0311061049.3fa113c0@posting.google.com...

"Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:<UUjqb.2886$E9.8@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>...

"Karen J" <karen715j@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2855c1c7.0311051952.227c7c4c@posting.google.com...

thurston_phoremost@hotmail.com (Thurston Phoremost) wrote in message

news:<acb7fa96.0311041352.78017332@posting.google.com>...

While the rest of us are flitting around the galaxy in FTL craft,

Some Jews will be uploaded also. The ones who go
back to the original intent of kosher:

Which is all of us who practice kashrus.

[snip]

An Insult to Jewish Ideals

by Michael Greger

As currently practiced, kosher slaughter is an outrageous violation of
Judaism's basic tenets and heritage.

Too bad this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
The people who came to this conclusion relied on faulty methods of
discovery.

Susan

What are your methods of discovery?

Please learn to read.
I had no methods of discxovery.
I was discussing the faulty methods of the committee that made the
"findings" about shechita.

Any quotes? Links?

You want me to quote myself??
Link to myself??

http://www.uscj.org/REIH_57762888.html
"D. The problem with shackling and hoisting is that it causes great
pain to the animals and thus violates the Jewish mandate of tsa'ar
ba'alei hayim (causing pain to animals).

Yes, & no one does this anymore. DUH!!!!
[blather snipped]
The whacko vegans want to get rid of all meat-eating & are picking the
softest target available.
Get a clue!!
Susan
.

User: "Karen J"
Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews.	07 Nov 2003 02:41:34 AM

"Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message news:<hfEqb.7917$p9.3552@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>...

"Karen J" <karen715j@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2855c1c7.0311061049.3fa113c0@posting.google.com...

"Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:<UUjqb.2886$E9.8@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>...

"Karen J" <karen715j@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2855c1c7.0311051952.227c7c4c@posting.google.com...

thurston_phoremost@hotmail.com (Thurston Phoremost) wrote in message

news:<acb7fa96.0311041352.78017332@posting.google.com>...

While the rest of us are flitting around the galaxy in FTL craft,

Some Jews will be uploaded also. The ones who go
back to the original intent of kosher:

Which is all of us who practice kashrus.

[snip]

An Insult to Jewish Ideals

by Michael Greger

As currently practiced, kosher slaughter is an outrageous violation of
Judaism's basic tenets and heritage.

Too bad this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
The people who came to this conclusion relied on faulty methods of
discovery.

Susan

What are your methods of discovery?

Please learn to read.
I had no methods of discxovery.

Then how did you determine that Michael Greger's
(or whoever) conclusions were faulty.

I was discussing the faulty methods of the committee that made the
"findings" about shechita.

Where did you discuss those "faulty methods"?
Got a link?

Any quotes? Links?

You want me to quote myself??
Link to myself??

Something that is more than just you saying "Duh"
and "dumb *****".

Yes, & no one does this anymore. DUH!!!!

So apparently the animal welfare activists
that you seem to despise so much have done
some good? Agreed?

[blather snipped]

The whacko vegans want to get rid of all meat-eating & are picking the
softest target available.

The animal welfare activists are picking lots
of targets. Kosher came up in this thread
because we were writing about Jews.

Get a clue!!

I'm finding it very difficult to get any
clues from you, that's for sure.

Susan

User: "TonyaK911"
Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews.	06 Nov 2003 01:02:00 PM

"Karen J" <karen715j@yahoo.com> wrote:

Too bad this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
The people who came to this conclusion relied on faulty methods of
discovery.

Susan

http://www.tikkun.org/magazine/index.cfm/action/tikkun/issue/tik0307/article
/030701d.html

"We Jews rightly consider the Holocaust to be a uniquely tragic
incident in the history of our people and of mankind. But it is also
true that cruelty to animals is strictly forbidden under Jewish law,
and there is an entire code of laws ("Tsa'ar ba'alei hayim," the
commandment to prevent the suffering of living creatures) mandating
that other creatures be treated with compassion.

"Thus, we Jews, especially, should understand that the massive
suffering of animals that is depicted by Patterson and PETA cannot be
allowed to go unnoticed or unopposed, especially the certification as
kosher of many of these animals that spend their lives in misery but
are killed in the prescribed manner."

Karen, you've found a really lousy thread (just look at its heading!) to
display your vegetarian rant!...
TK9
Southern Rules:
#4. We all started hunting and fishing when we were seven years old. Yeah,
we saw Bambi. We got over it.
.

User: "Karen J"
Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews.	06 Nov 2003 08:10:12 PM

"TonyaK911" <TonK911@excite.com:

Karen, you've found a really lousy thread (just look at its heading!) to
display your vegetarian rant!...

TK9

Actually, it's a FEAR GOD!!! rant.
(It started in a couple of atheism newsgroups.)
I got into the original thread (Are Jew$ a
protected species...?) because I'm also
interested in sociobiology, Kevin Macdonald,
Jews, Zionism (I'm anti - why should my tax
dollars support one theocracy stealing land
from another?), the Iraq war (i'm anti - why
should my tax dollars be used to fight
Israel's wars for her?)...
http://www.independent-media.tv/item.cfm?fmedia_id=2968&fcategory_desc=Under%20Reported
http://www.israeleconomy.org/strat1.htm
....,and ATHEISM (I'm anti - because ever
since 'Pigs in Cyberspace" it no longer
makes sense).
Thurston_phoremost@hotmail.com moved the
thread and gave it a new name. I didn't
want to leave the impression that I thought
no Jews would be uploaded, so I replied
to him.
Also, I believe that so much of the media
is controlled by the Jews that many people
don't get a very good chance to air their
views.
http://www.abbc.com/islam/english/jewishp/usa/columnists.htm
Not every person like me is necessarily
evil, and the Jews need to get used to it,
even if some of the subject headings are
ridiculous.

Southern Rules:
#4. We all started hunting and fishing when we were seven years old. Yeah,
we saw Bambi. We got over it.

You used to have slavery too.
.

User: "Susan Cohen"
Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews.	06 Nov 2003 09:25:05 PM

"Karen J" <karen715j@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2855c1c7.0311061810.3e211c29@posting.google.com...

I got into the original thread (Are Jew$ a
protected species...?) because I'm also
interested in sociobiology, Kevin Macdonald,

Gee, what a surprise to find out the stupid ***** is a bigot!!
Susan
.

User: "TonyaK911"
Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews.	06 Nov 2003 09:31:08 PM

"Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:lgEqb.7929$p9.759@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...

"Karen J" <karen715j@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2855c1c7.0311061810.3e211c29@posting.google.com...

I got into the original thread (Are Jew$ a
protected species...?) because I'm also
interested in sociobiology, Kevin Macdonald,

Gee, what a surprise to find out the stupid ***** is a bigot!!

Susan

They are in the business of protecting animals.
Jews, in their view, do not deserve any protection.
Why? - because the Jew$ have the dollar sign at the end of the word...
They even have the name for their brand of Jew-hate: they call it
"sociobiology!"
TK9
.

User: "Karen J"
Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews.	07 Nov 2003 10:54:18 AM

"Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message news:<lgEqb.7929$p9.759@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>...

"Karen J" <karen715j@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2855c1c7.0311061810.3e211c29@posting.google.com...

I got into the original thread (Are Jew$ a
protected species...?) because I'm also
interested in sociobiology, Kevin Macdonald,

Gee, what a surprise to find out the stupid ***** is a bigot!!

Susan

"Notice that American Jews have no interest
in proposing that immigration to Israel
should be similarly multiethnic, or ...
threaten the hegemony of the Jews."
Kevin Macdonald
http://groups.google.com/groups?safe=images&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&as_umsgid=3fa526cd%240%2423708%24756600cd@news.cambrium.nl&lr=&hl=en
"We shouldn't be surprised by the importance
of ethnicity in human affairs. Nor should we
be intimidated by charges of anti-Semitism.
We should be able to discuss these issues
openly and honestly. This is a practical
matter, not a moral one."
Kevin Macdonald
http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=ksZcb.6831%24pP6.2699%40newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net
"Neoconservatives have responded to charges
that their foreign policy has a Jewish agenda
by labeling any such analysis as 'anti-Semitic.'
Similar charges have been echoed by powerful
activist Jewish organizations like the ADL and
the Simon Wiesenthal Center."
Kevin Macdonald
http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=ksZcb.6831%24pP6.2699%40newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net
.

User: "TonyaK911"
Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews.	07 Nov 2003 10:56:43 AM

"Karen J" <karen715j@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2855c1c7.0311070854.399c3ab8@posting.google.com...

"Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:<lgEqb.7929$p9.759@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>...

"Karen J" <karen715j@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2855c1c7.0311061810.3e211c29@posting.google.com...

I got into the original thread (Are Jew$ a
protected species...?) because I'm also
interested in sociobiology, Kevin Macdonald,

Gee, what a surprise to find out the stupid ***** is a bigot!!

Susan

"Notice that American Jews have no interest
in proposing that immigration to Israel
should be similarly multiethnic, or ...
threaten the hegemony of the Jews."
Kevin Macdonald

And what did Ronald McDonald have to say about those bad-***** Jooz, Karen?
He's also an important figure in America!
TK9
.

User: "Mark K. Bilbo"
Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews.	07 Nov 2003 11:07:16 PM

On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 03:25:05 +0000, Susan Cohen wrote:

"Karen J" <karen715j@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2855c1c7.0311061810.3e211c29@posting.google.com...

I got into the original thread (Are Jew$ a
protected species...?) because I'm also
interested in sociobiology, Kevin Macdonald,

Gee, what a surprise to find out the stupid ***** is a bigot!!

But at least she didn't leave the impression she thought no Jews would be
uploaded.
Which I wasn't aware happened very often.
(The things I learn around Usenet)
--
Mark K. Bilbo
"There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels."
.

User: "Greta"
Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews.	07 Nov 2003 11:17:04 AM

On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 03:25:05 GMT, "Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net>
wrote:

"Karen J" <karen715j@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2855c1c7.0311061810.3e211c29@posting.google.com...

I got into the original thread (Are Jew$ a
protected species...?) because I'm also
interested in sociobiology, Kevin Macdonald,

Gee, what a surprise to find out the stupid ***** is a bigot!!
^^^^^

Susan

Oh my G-d! This fucking ***** is a misogynist!
.

User: "Greta"
Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews.	07 Nov 2003 11:22:11 AM

On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 13:17:04 -0400, Greta <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 03:25:05 GMT, "Susan Cohen" <flaviaR@verizon.net>
wrote:

"Karen J" <karen715j@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2855c1c7.0311061810.3e211c29@posting.google.com...

I got into the original thread (Are Jew$ a
protected species...?) because I'm also
interested in sociobiology, Kevin Macdonald,

Gee, what a surprise to find out the stupid ***** is a bigot!!
^^^^^

Susan

Oh my G-d! This fucking ***** is a misogynist!

....or should I say, "a self-hating woman"?
.

User: "The Revd Terence Fformby-Smythe"
Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews.	07 Nov 2003 04:36:53 AM

On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 03:25:05 GMT, "Suzy the convert"
<flavia@verizon.net> wrote:

"Karen J" <karen715j@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2855c1c7.0311061810.3e211c29@posting.google.com...

I got into the original thread (Are Jew$ a
protected species...?) because I'm also
interested in sociobiology, Kevin Macdonald,

Gee, what a surprise to find out the stupid ***** is a bigot!!

Suzy

We've always known you're a bigot, Suzy. Where's the surprise?
.

User: "Joebruno"
Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews.	08 Nov 2003 03:26:52 AM

(The Revd Terence Fformby-Smythe) wrote in message news:<3fab742d.17750131@news.tiscali.co.uk>...

On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 03:25:05 GMT, "Suzy the convert"
<flavia@verizon.net> wrote:

"Karen J" <karen715j@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2855c1c7.0311061810.3e211c29@posting.google.com...

I got into the original thread (Are Jew$ a
protected species...?) because I'm also
interested in sociobiology, Kevin Macdonald,

Gee, what a surprise to find out the stupid ***** is a bigot!!

Suzy

We've always known you're a bigot, Suzy. Where's the surprise?

What is this "we" *****?You don't speak for anyone but yourself, moron.
.

User: "The Revd Terence Fformby-Smythe"
Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews.	08 Nov 2003 01:32:42 PM

On 8 Nov 2003 01:26:52 -0800,

(Joebruno) wrote:

rennegade@anglican.org (The Revd Terence Fformby-Smythe) wrote in message news:<3fab742d.17750131@news.tiscali.co.uk>...

On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 03:25:05 GMT, "Suzy the convert"
<flavia@verizon.net> wrote:

"Karen J" <karen715j@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2855c1c7.0311061810.3e211c29@posting.google.com...

I got into the original thread (Are Jew$ a
protected species...?) because I'm also
interested in sociobiology, Kevin Macdonald,

Gee, what a surprise to find out the stupid ***** is a bigot!!

Suzy

We've always known you're a bigot, Suzy. Where's the surprise?

What is this "we" *****?You don't speak for anyone but yourself, moron.

I speak for all gentiles, B'runo. You speak only for yourself and
your tapeworm, imbecile.
.

User: "Douglas Berry"
Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews.	08 Nov 2003 05:14:28 PM

Lo, many moons past, on Sat, 08 Nov 2003 19:32:42 GMT, a stranger
called by some

(The Revd Terence
Fformby-Smythe) came forth and told this tale in alt.atheism

I speak for all gentiles, B'runo. You speak only for yourself and
your tapeworm, imbecile.

You most emphatically do not speak for me. You are an embarrassment
to the species, and once the chimps heard about you they reconsidered
this whole reclassification from Pan to Homo thing.
You, sir, are wasting my oxygen.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
.

User: "Joebruno"
Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews.	08 Nov 2003 08:17:12 PM

Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message news:<r2uqqv00p0ktnkjrno4thoadq7r39juer2@4ax.com>...

Lo, many moons past, on Sat, 08 Nov 2003 19:32:42 GMT, a stranger
called by some

(The Revd Terence
Fformby-Smythe) came forth and told this tale in alt.atheism

I speak for all gentiles, B'runo. You speak only for yourself and
your tapeworm, imbecile.

Well, Douglas, it finally happened.After all our heated arguments on
religion, we found something we can agree on;the Reverend is
worthless.
Dasvidanya.
Josef Bruno
.

User: "The Revd Terence Fformby-Smythe"
Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews.	08 Nov 2003 11:34:31 PM

On 8 Nov 2003 18:17:12 -0800,

(Joebruno) wrote:

Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message news:<r2uqqv00p0ktnkjrno4thoadq7r39juer2@4ax.com>...

Lo, many moons past, on Sat, 08 Nov 2003 19:32:42 GMT, a stranger
called by some

(The Revd Terence
Fformby-Smythe) came forth and told this tale in alt.atheism

I speak for all gentiles, B'runo. You speak only for yourself and
your tapeworm, imbecile.

Well, Douglas, it finally happened.After all our heated arguments on
religion, we found something we can agree on;the Reverend is
worthless.

Oy vey. The jew's found a shabbos goy to agree with him already.
Mazeltov!
.

User: "The Revd Terence Fformby-Smythe"
Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews.	08 Nov 2003 11:33:42 PM

On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 23:14:28 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:

Lo, many moons past, on Sat, 08 Nov 2003 19:32:42 GMT, a stranger
called by some

(The Revd Terence
Fformby-Smythe) came forth and told this tale in alt.atheism

I speak for all gentiles, B'runo. You speak only for yourself and
your tapeworm, imbecile.

You most emphatically do not speak for me.

I was referring to true gentiles, not shabbos goys like you.

You are an embarrassment
to the species, and once the chimps heard about you they reconsidered
this whole reclassification from Pan to Homo thing.

You, sir, are wasting my oxygen.

And you, sir, may blow it out your shabbos goy *****.
.

User: "Douglas Berry"
Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews.	09 Nov 2003 11:05:44 AM

Lo, many moons past, on Sun, 09 Nov 2003 05:33:42 GMT, a stranger
called by some

(The Revd Terence
Fformby-Smythe) came forth and told this tale in alt.atheism

On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 23:14:28 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:

You most emphatically do not speak for me.

I was referring to true gentiles, not shabbos goys like you.

What on Earth is a "shabbos goy"?

You are an embarrassment
to the species, and once the chimps heard about you they reconsidered
this whole reclassification from Pan to Homo thing.

You, sir, are wasting my oxygen.

And you, sir, may blow it out your shabbos goy *****.

No idea what you are talking about. But if you are trying to somehow
insinuate that I'm Jwish, or have been, you are quite wrong. Former
Catholic, been an atheist since I was about 12.
And you are still wasting my oxygen.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
.

User: "Waldo"
Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews.	09 Nov 2003 04:02:46 PM

"Douglas Berry" <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
news:2sssqv4cf7bbui2ervvs3c1bk0f32451oq@4ax.com...

Lo, many moons past, on Sun, 09 Nov 2003 05:33:42 GMT, a stranger
called by some

(The Revd Terence
Fformby-Smythe) came forth and told this tale in alt.atheism

On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 23:14:28 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:

You most emphatically do not speak for me.

I was referring to true gentiles, not shabbos goys like you.

What on Earth is a "shabbos goy"?

Jewish law forbids Jews from "working" on shabbos (Sabbath - from sundown
Friday to sundown Saturday), forbidden "work" would include mundane chores
such as lighting fires, so the Jews would hire Goys (a derogatory term for
non-Jews) to perform such mundane tasks for them on the shabbos.
In modern usage, a "shabbos goy" is a pawn of the Jews - a Kosher
*****-kisser.

You are an embarrassment
to the species, and once the chimps heard about you they reconsidered
this whole reclassification from Pan to Homo thing.

You, sir, are wasting my oxygen.

And you, sir, may blow it out your shabbos goy *****.

No idea what you are talking about. But if you are trying to somehow
insinuate that I'm Jwish, or have been, you are quite wrong.

If you had been born Jewish, you would die Jewish. It's not something you
can opt out of.

Former
Catholic, been an atheist since I was about 12.

I note here that you refer to yourself as an atheist and "former Catholic".
This is correct, as obviously one could not be *both* Catholic and atheist
simultaneously.
Interestingly, one CAN be both Jewish and athiest at the same time.
Think about it.
**
Waldo
Observer at Large
.

User: "Daniel Balint"
Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews.	10 Nov 2003 07:11:26 PM

"Waldo" <Waldeaux@hushmail.com> wrote in message
news:3faeb9f3$0$191@news.impulse.net...

"Douglas Berry" <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
news:2sssqv4cf7bbui2ervvs3c1bk0f32451oq@4ax.com...

Lo, many moons past, on Sun, 09 Nov 2003 05:33:42 GMT, a stranger
called by some

(The Revd Terence
Fformby-Smythe) came forth and told this tale in alt.atheism

On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 23:14:28 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:

You most emphatically do not speak for me.

I was referring to true gentiles, not shabbos goys like you.

What on Earth is a "shabbos goy"?

Jewish law forbids Jews from "working" on shabbos (Sabbath - from sundown
Friday to sundown Saturday), forbidden "work" would include mundane chores
such as lighting fires, so the Jews would hire Goys (a derogatory term for
non-Jews) to perform such mundane tasks for them on the shabbos.

In modern usage, a "shabbos goy" is a pawn of the Jews - a Kosher
*****-kisser.

You are an embarrassment
to the species, and once the chimps heard about you they reconsidered
this whole reclassification from Pan to Homo thing.

You, sir, are wasting my oxygen.

And you, sir, may blow it out your shabbos goy *****.

No idea what you are talking about. But if you are trying to somehow
insinuate that I'm Jwish, or have been, you are quite wrong.

If you had been born Jewish, you would die Jewish. It's not something you
can opt out of.

***** - Judaism is a religion only - there is no such race as Jews
.

User: "Sheldon Liberman"
Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews.	10 Nov 2003 10:10:50 PM

Daniel Balint wrote:

"Waldo" <Waldeaux@hushmail.com> wrote in message
news:3faeb9f3$0$191@news.impulse.net...

"Douglas Berry" <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in message
news:2sssqv4cf7bbui2ervvs3c1bk0f32451oq@4ax.com...

Lo, many moons past, on Sun, 09 Nov 2003 05:33:42 GMT, a stranger
called by some

(The Revd Terence
Fformby-Smythe) came forth and told this tale in alt.atheism

On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 23:14:28 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:

You most emphatically do not speak for me.

I was referring to true gentiles, not shabbos goys like you.

What on Earth is a "shabbos goy"?

Jewish law forbids Jews from "working" on shabbos (Sabbath - from sundown
Friday to sundown Saturday), forbidden "work" would include mundane chores
such as lighting fires, so the Jews would hire Goys (a derogatory term for
non-Jews) to perform such mundane tasks for them on the shabbos.

In modern usage, a "shabbos goy" is a pawn of the Jews - a Kosher
*****-kisser.

You are an embarrassment
to the species, and once the chimps heard about you they reconsidered
this whole reclassification from Pan to Homo thing.

You, sir, are wasting my oxygen.

And you, sir, may blow it out your shabbos goy *****.

No idea what you are talking about. But if you are trying to somehow
insinuate that I'm Jwish, or have been, you are quite wrong.

If you had been born Jewish, you would die Jewish. It's not something you
can opt out of.

***** - Judaism is a religion only - there is no such race as Jews

Judaism is far from being a religion only, as evidenced by the fact that
even non-religious Jews, for the most part, maintain their Jewish
identity in some fashion, be it by mezuzahs on the door post, marrying
other Jews, attending Passover seders, lighting Chanukah candles, etc.
Judaism ofter descibes categorization simply because it predates most
categorical definitions. What Judaism is is a membership in a covenant
between G-d and the Jewish people. All persons born of a Jewish mother,
and circumsized if male, are part of that covenant. There are no exit
strategies, nor should any Jew desire one.

User: "Douglas Berry"
Title: Re: Those stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid Jews.	11 Nov 2003 11:14:40 AM

Lo, many moons past, on Mon, 10 Nov 2003 23:10:50 -0500, a stranger
called by some Sheldon Liberman <sheldon.liberman@sympatico.ca> came
forth and told this tale in alt.atheism

Does that make me part of the British race then? Despite mt being
born and raised in Califiornia, I still follow many of the traditions
I learned from my father.
My wife and I still put up a Christmas tree.. but were not Christians.
There is a difference between culture and race. An Australian, a
Texan, and I might have the exact same skin tone, hair and eye color,
and come from wildly different cultures.

Judaism ofter descibes categorization simply because it predates most
categorical definitions. What Judaism is is a membership in a covenant
between G-d and the Jewish people. All persons born of a Jewish mother,
and circumsized if male, are part of that covenant. There are no exit
strategies, nor should any Jew desire one.

*shudder* Sounds like a cult.
--
Douglas Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
Ezekiel 13:20 "Wherefore thus saith the
Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows"
.

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