| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Gactimus" |
| Date: |
20 Jan 2005 09:27:17 AM |
| Object: |
Michael Moore: Guns Are Okay For Me, But Not For You |
It looks like Spike Lee was right. Mr. Michael "Bowling for Columbine"
Moore's bodyguards do carry guns,
"Filmmaker Michael Moore's bodyguard was arrested for carrying an unlicensed
weapon in New York's JFK airport Wednesday night."
Well, well, well, could a man who believes that you don't have the "right to
bear arms" actually have a gun packing bodyguard protecting him? I guess as
far as Moore is concerned, there's one standard for all of us peons and
another standard for VILs (very important liberals) like himself.
Sure, Moore may think that "ordinary people" -- like YOU -- can't be trusted
to have a gun to defend your families. It's just too risky. Oh, but if
Michael Moore might be in danger, well that's a different matter all
together; he's special, you see, the rules that he wants to apply to the
"little people" shouldn't apply to him.
What a hypocrite.
.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore: Guns Are Okay For Me, But Not For You |
21 Jan 2005 03:16:56 PM |
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"RD (The Sandman)" <rdsandman@comcast.net> wrote
He stated that people should not be allowed to own
handguns or assault weapons.
Cites?
That's something I've said numerous times.
That's mostly true. Get the criminals to stop carrying
and using guns and then I will consider not carrying
mine.
The NRA has done all in it's power to keep guns in
criminal hands.
They freak at the very idea of placing the exact same
controls that are already on my car onto guns.
The only way to stop criminals from owning guns
is to trace their ownership, their history, so you
can see where the criminals are getting them.
But that's "registration," and the NRA attacked the
idea of gun locks, never mind registration...
Then you can place liability on manufacturers,
dealers & private owners who supply guns to
criminals.
No, you won't stop criminals from getting guns,
not entirely. But we could have been significantly
reducing their numbers starting decades ago.
.
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| User: "James H. Hood" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore: Guns Are Okay For Me, But Not For You |
22 Jan 2005 02:33:02 AM |
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JTEM <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:I8WdnQJD14ge8mzcRVn-jA@comcast.com...
The NRA has done all in it's power to keep guns in
criminal hands.
Yeah, right.....that's why the NRA has been behind Project Exile so
strongly, you fool.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore: Guns Are Okay For Me, But Not For You |
22 Jan 2005 04:56:12 AM |
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"James H. Hood" <jhhoodDIESPAMMERDIE@urdirect.net> wrote
Yeah, right.....that's why the NRA has been behind
Project Exile so strongly, you fool.
"Project Exile" is, more than anything, a budget
saving tool. State government, that is. It actually
requires a significant increase in over-all costs,
though it spreads this cost around state, county
& federal authorities.
It shifts the cost of the trial & prison term to the
federal government, and away from the states.
Implemented as marketed, it's a high-cost
alternative (given both the state & federal
resources demanded) to simply enacting more
useful gun laws.
If federal laws call for stiffer sentences than
state laws -- and you really think that stiffer
sentences are more effective -- than simply
pass legislation that stiffens the state's
sentences.
But then the state would have to pay to keep
that person in prison...
Why the need for a special task for to trace
the source of a gun? Because the NRA
(amongst other special interest group) will
battle anyone you calls for a lower-cost
national registry.
Look at the resources required by one
such "Project Exile" alone, all because
the cheaper, lower-cost, more effective
alternative would offend the NRA:
| Each of the participating law enforcement
| agencies -- the Rochester Police Department,
| the ATF, the U.S. Marshal's Service, the
| New York State Police, Monroe County
| Sheriff's Office, the New York State Attorney
| General's Office and the Office of the
| Inspector General of Housing and Urban
| Development -- has donated substantial
| personnel and resources to the gun task force.
"Substantial personal."
Keep in mind, this is ALL for one city,
Rochester NY, with a population of
217,000 people as of the year 2002 (and
the population growth was in the negatives,
not increasing).
.
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| User: "Scout" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore: Guns Are Okay For Me, But Not For You |
22 Jan 2005 08:09:01 AM |
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"JTEM" <gymraven@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:HsqdnTTEZtMasm_cRVn-tw@comcast.com...
"James H. Hood" <jhhoodDIESPAMMERDIE@urdirect.net> wrote
Yeah, right.....that's why the NRA has been behind
Project Exile so strongly, you fool.
"Project Exile" is, more than anything, a budget
saving tool. State government, that is. It actually
requires a significant increase in over-all costs,
though it spreads this cost around state, county
& federal authorities.
Yep, imagine having to actually pay the money so we can convict and
incarcerate criminals. I have to agree it would be so much cheaper for
government budgets if we just shut down the court systems and let the
criminals do what they want.
Of course, it's also cheaper once you get these criminals off the street and
you don't have to waste as much of your budget investigating the crimes they
would have committed, prosecuting them for those crimes, and putting them
into the revolving door prison system.
.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore: Guns Are Okay For Me, But Not For You |
23 Jan 2005 11:08:03 PM |
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"Scout" <4guns@adelphia.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote
"Project Exile" is, more than anything, a budget
saving tool. State government, that is. It actually
requires a significant increase in over-all costs,
though it spreads this cost around state, county
& federal authorities.
Yep, imagine having to actually pay the money so
we can convict and incarcerate criminals. I have
to agree it would be so much cheaper for government
budgets if we just shut down the court systems and
let the criminals do what they want.
But you don't agree that we should be more effective
at finding these criminals -- even as we save
millions -- by simply adopting common-sense laws
no different than the ones that already apply to my
car.
.
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| User: "RD The Sandman" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore: Guns Are Okay For Me, But Not For You |
24 Jan 2005 02:30:11 PM |
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JTEM wrote:
"Scout" <4guns@adelphia.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote
"Project Exile" is, more than anything, a budget
saving tool. State government, that is. It actually
requires a significant increase in over-all costs,
though it spreads this cost around state, county
& federal authorities.
Yep, imagine having to actually pay the money so
we can convict and incarcerate criminals. I have
to agree it would be so much cheaper for government
budgets if we just shut down the court systems and
let the criminals do what they want.
But you don't agree that we should be more effective
at finding these criminals -- even as we save
millions -- by simply adopting common-sense laws
no different than the ones that already apply to my
car.
Hey, I'm for it.
I could.....
....buy as many as I wanted
....buy a gun while on vacation in Virginia
....store one and rent one at the airport
....get one with no back ground check
....get one with no operator's license
....get one with no insurance
....get one with no limit on horsepower
....get one with no limit on cosmetics
....have shooters ed taught in the high schools
....carry one for my stay in DC
....carry from state to state on just my CCW
....purchase one off the internet
....order one from mail order
....get one with no waiting periods
That's for starters........
--
Sleep well tonight.........RD (The Sandman)
http://home.comcast.net/~rdsandman
School - Four walls with tomorrow inside.
"The fatal attraction of government is that it allows busybodies to
impose decisions on others without paying any price themselves."
"It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making
decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who
pay no price for being wrong" Author Thomas Sowell
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore: Guns Are Okay For Me, But Not For You |
24 Jan 2005 10:17:18 PM |
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RD (The Sandman) <rdsandman@comcast.net> wrote:
JTEM wrote:
But you don't agree that we should be more effective
at finding these criminals -- even as we save
millions -- by simply adopting common-sense laws
no different than the ones that already apply to my
car.
Hey, I'm for it.
I could.....
...buy as many as I wanted
...buy a gun while on vacation in Virginia
...store one and rent one at the airport
...get one with no back ground check
...get one with no operator's license
...get one with no insurance
...get one with no limit on horsepower
...get one with no limit on cosmetics
...have shooters ed taught in the high schools
...carry one for my stay in DC
...carry from state to state on just my CCW
...purchase one off the internet
...order one from mail order
...get one with no waiting periods
That's for starters........
You've never done any of those things, have you?
Try getting a car without insurance and a license.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Scout" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore: Guns Are Okay For Me, But Not For You |
25 Jan 2005 04:51:00 AM |
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"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:ct4h8e$47u$1@bolt.sonic.net...
RD (The Sandman) <rdsandman@comcast.net> wrote:
JTEM wrote:
But you don't agree that we should be more effective
at finding these criminals -- even as we save
millions -- by simply adopting common-sense laws
no different than the ones that already apply to my
car.
Hey, I'm for it.
I could.....
...buy as many as I wanted
...buy a gun while on vacation in Virginia
...store one and rent one at the airport
...get one with no back ground check
...get one with no operator's license
...get one with no insurance
...get one with no limit on horsepower
...get one with no limit on cosmetics
...have shooters ed taught in the high schools
...carry one for my stay in DC
...carry from state to state on just my CCW
...purchase one off the internet
...order one from mail order
...get one with no waiting periods
That's for starters........
You've never done any of those things, have you?
Try getting a car without insurance and a license.
Yep, when I was 14.
So what's your point?
.
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| User: "GreyCloud" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore: Guns Are Okay For Me, But Not For You |
25 Jan 2005 11:02:42 AM |
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Ray Fischer wrote:
RD (The Sandman) <rdsandman@comcast.net> wrote:
JTEM wrote:
But you don't agree that we should be more effective
at finding these criminals -- even as we save
millions -- by simply adopting common-sense laws
no different than the ones that already apply to my
car.
Hey, I'm for it.
I could.....
...buy as many as I wanted
...buy a gun while on vacation in Virginia
...store one and rent one at the airport
...get one with no back ground check
...get one with no operator's license
...get one with no insurance
...get one with no limit on horsepower
...get one with no limit on cosmetics
...have shooters ed taught in the high schools
...carry one for my stay in DC
...carry from state to state on just my CCW
...purchase one off the internet
...order one from mail order
...get one with no waiting periods
That's for starters........
You've never done any of those things, have you?
Try getting a car without insurance and a license.
You can get a car without insurance. Pay cash. License?
That's what thieves do is steal a car. You won't need a
license.
--
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
.
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| User: "RD The Sandman" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore: Guns Are Okay For Me, But Not For You |
25 Jan 2005 02:59:27 PM |
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Ray Fischer wrote:
RD (The Sandman) <rdsandman@comcast.net> wrote:
JTEM wrote:
But you don't agree that we should be more effective
at finding these criminals -- even as we save
millions -- by simply adopting common-sense laws
no different than the ones that already apply to my
car.
Hey, I'm for it.
I could.....
...buy as many as I wanted
...buy a gun while on vacation in Virginia
...store one and rent one at the airport
...get one with no back ground check
...get one with no operator's license
...get one with no insurance
...get one with no limit on horsepower
...get one with no limit on cosmetics
...have shooters ed taught in the high schools
...carry one for my stay in DC
...carry from state to state on just my CCW
...purchase one off the internet
...order one from mail order
...get one with no waiting periods
That's for starters........
You've never done any of those things, have you?
Try getting a car without insurance and a license.
Already have. Neither are required for you purchase a car. Insurance
is required by the lender if you finance it but that is to protect their
investment. Pay cash.
--
Sleep well tonight.........RD (The Sandman)
http://home.comcast.net/~rdsandman
School - Four walls with tomorrow inside.
"The fatal attraction of government is that it allows busybodies to
impose decisions on others without paying any price themselves."
"It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making
decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who
pay no price for being wrong" Author Thomas Sowell
.
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| User: "FerdinandAkin" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore: Guns Are Okay For Me, But Not For You |
22 Jan 2005 08:37:08 AM |
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JTEM wrote:
"James H. Hood" <jhhoodDIESPAMMERDIE@urdirect.net> wrote
Yeah, right.....that's why the NRA has been behind
Project Exile so strongly, you fool.
"Project Exile" is, more than anything, a budget
saving tool. State government, that is. It actually
requires a significant increase in over-all costs,
though it spreads this cost around state, county
& federal authorities.
It shifts the cost of the trial & prison term to the
federal government, and away from the states.
Sending criminals to trial is a good thing. Does this imply you
advocate saving money by not sending criminals to trial?
Implemented as marketed, it's a high-cost
alternative (given both the state & federal
resources demanded) to simply enacting more
useful gun laws.
If federal laws call for stiffer sentences than
state laws -- and you really think that stiffer
sentences are more effective -- than simply
pass legislation that stiffens the state's
sentences.
Do you think a criminal will obey any gun law? Do you think a criminal
will enter his gun into a national registry?
But then the state would have to pay to keep
that person in prison...
As opposed to society having to pay for a predatory criminal out on the
street.
Why the need for a special task for to trace
the source of a gun? Because the NRA
(amongst other special interest group) will
battle anyone you calls for a lower-cost
national registry.
Gun registries facilitate gun confication by the government. Does this
imply you favor gun confication?
Look at the resources required by one
such "Project Exile" alone, all because
the cheaper, lower-cost, more effective
alternative would offend the NRA:
| Each of the participating law enforcement
| agencies -- the Rochester Police Department,
| the ATF, the U.S. Marshal's Service, the
| New York State Police, Monroe County
| Sheriff's Office, the New York State Attorney
| General's Office and the Office of the
| Inspector General of Housing and Urban
| Development -- has donated substantial
| personnel and resources to the gun task force.
"Substantial personal."
Keep in mind, this is ALL for one city,
Rochester NY, with a population of
217,000 people as of the year 2002 (and
the population growth was in the negatives,
not increasing).
Higher initial costs are to be expected in implementing an effective
crime-fighting program. When the number of crimes are reduced the costs
will decrease.
/sea/
.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore: Guns Are Okay For Me, But Not For You |
23 Jan 2005 11:11:10 PM |
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"FerdinandAkin" <FerdinandAkin@comcast.net> wrote
It shifts the cost of the trial & prison term to the
federal government, and away from the states.
Sending criminals to trial is a good thing. Does this
imply you advocate saving money by not sending
criminals to trial?
What the hell do you think you're responding to?
If you're retarded or on drugs I could understand.
In fact, that would explain why you're responding
to arguments that nobody is making, even as you
pretend to have a point.
If that is not the case, please seek the nearest
mental health professional. You need them,
bad.
.
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| User: "GreyCloud" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore: Guns Are Okay For Me, But Not For You |
21 Jan 2005 08:25:00 PM |
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JTEM wrote:
"RD (The Sandman)" <rdsandman@comcast.net> wrote
He stated that people should not be allowed to own
handguns or assault weapons.
Cites?
That's something I've said numerous times.
That's mostly true. Get the criminals to stop carrying
and using guns and then I will consider not carrying
mine.
The NRA has done all in it's power to keep guns in
criminal hands.
Now it's my turn... cite please.
They freak at the very idea of placing the exact same
controls that are already on my car onto guns.
The only way to stop criminals from owning guns
is to trace their ownership, their history, so you
can see where the criminals are getting them.
But that's "registration," and the NRA attacked the
idea of gun locks, never mind registration...
Then you can place liability on manufacturers,
dealers & private owners who supply guns to
criminals.
No, you won't stop criminals from getting guns,
not entirely. But we could have been significantly
reducing their numbers starting decades ago.
--
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore: Guns Are Okay For Me, But Not For You |
22 Jan 2005 03:40:50 AM |
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"GreyCloud" <cumulus@mist.com> wrote
Now it's my turn... cite please.
I shouldn't have to point this out, but...
#1) You haven't offered any cites.
#2) You don't need any "cites". You are well
aware that the NRA opposed trigger locks,
and that the maintain their opposition to gun
registration.
Without mandated registration, not only can
a gun's source easily be lost through private
sales, but a person who knowingly sells a
gun to criminal can hide behind the lack of
a trail.
.
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| User: "GreyCloud" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore: Guns Are Okay For Me, But Not For You |
22 Jan 2005 01:01:10 PM |
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JTEM wrote:
"GreyCloud" <cumulus@mist.com> wrote
Now it's my turn... cite please.
I shouldn't have to point this out, but...
#1) You haven't offered any cites.
Counting beans eh??
I gave you mine, now it's your turn.
#2) You don't need any "cites". You are well
aware that the NRA opposed trigger locks,
and that the maintain their opposition to gun
registration.
And demonstrated how stupid and useless those locks are.
One could hurt themself screwing around with one of those.
It would be better to look at the mental state of people and
how they got there in the first place.
You should know now that the gun is only a tool. It is
people that commit crimes, not guns.
Without mandated registration, not only can
a gun's source easily be lost through private
sales, but a person who knowingly sells a
gun to criminal can hide behind the lack of
a trail.
There are so many laws on the books now on gun ownership and
registration. But no one is enforcing them.
AK-47s are illegal, yet the Chinese own LongBeach docks and
export them to this country. No one is down at those docks
to inspect the cargo containers. Yet the druggies buy the
AK-47s for their own use.
--
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
.
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| User: "Bama Brian" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore: Guns Are Okay For Me, But Not For You |
22 Jan 2005 12:14:30 PM |
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JTEM wrote:
"GreyCloud" <cumulus@mist.com> wrote
Now it's my turn... cite please.
I shouldn't have to point this out, but...
#1) You haven't offered any cites.
#2) You don't need any "cites". You are well
aware that the NRA opposed trigger locks,
and that the maintain their opposition to gun
registration.
Without mandated registration, not only can
a gun's source easily be lost through private
sales, but a person who knowingly sells a
gun to criminal can hide behind the lack of
a trail.
Just in case you don't see it above, Federal Form 4473 is filled out for
every gun sold legally in this country. It is kept at the gun dealer's
shop forever, unless the gun dealer goes out of business. At that time
it is transferred to the BATFE.
--
Cheers,
Bama Brian
Libertarian
.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore: Guns Are Okay For Me, But Not For You |
22 Jan 2005 04:22:54 PM |
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"Bama Brian" <bamaNOTbrian@mindspring.com> wrote
Just in case you don't see it above, Federal Form 4473
is filled out for every gun sold legally in this country.
It is kept at the gun dealer's shop forever, unless the
gun dealer goes out of business.
I specifically mentioned PRIVATE SALES, not retail
sales by licensed gun dealers.
You're not even responding to what I said. You've
simply invented an argument you "Feel" you can
respond to, then dishonestly attributed it to me.
That's called a "Strawman" argument, if you didn't
already know.
.
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| User: "Bama Brian" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore: Guns Are Okay For Me, But Not For You |
23 Jan 2005 01:41:29 AM |
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JTEM wrote:
"Bama Brian" <bamaNOTbrian@mindspring.com> wrote
Just in case you don't see it above, Federal Form 4473
is filled out for every gun sold legally in this country.
It is kept at the gun dealer's shop forever, unless the
gun dealer goes out of business.
I specifically mentioned PRIVATE SALES, not retail
sales by licensed gun dealers.
You're not even responding to what I said. You've
simply invented an argument you "Feel" you can
respond to, then dishonestly attributed it to me.
That's called a "Strawman" argument, if you didn't
already know.
Nope. Here's what you said:
"The NRA has done all in it's power to keep guns in
criminal hands.
They freak at the very idea of placing the exact same
controls that are already on my car onto guns.
The only way to stop criminals from owning guns
is to trace their ownership, their history, so you
can see where the criminals are getting them.
But that's "registration," and the NRA attacked the
idea of gun locks, never mind registration...
Then you can place liability on manufacturers,
dealers & private owners who supply guns to
criminals."
So have you forgotten what you've posted? Or do you just prefer to use
Ad Hominems in place of reasoned debate?
Guns ARE already registered; but it hasn't proved useful.
As I've pointed out to you, manufacturers, dealers, and private owners
don't knowingly sell to criminals. Indeed, commercial gun sales are
regulated to prevent that from happening.
--
Cheers,
Bama Brian
Libertarian
.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore: Guns Are Okay For Me, But Not For You |
23 Jan 2005 10:53:56 PM |
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"Bama Brian" <bamaNOTbrian@mindspring.com> wrote
I specifically mentioned PRIVATE SALES, not retail
sales by licensed gun dealers.
Nope. Here's what you said:
[---snip distortion---]
This is the article you were responding to. Anyone can
confirm this on google, or I.E. users can click on "show
all" and then "group by conversation." You are clearly
a moron:
Message-ID: <XbGdnfzMMMVBgG_cRVn-pg@comcast.com>
----------begin actual article-------------------
"GreyCloud" <cumulus@mist.com> wrote
Now it's my turn... cite please.
I shouldn't have to point this out, but...
#1) You haven't offered any cites.
#2) You don't need any "cites". You are well
aware that the NRA opposed trigger locks,
and that the maintain their opposition to gun
registration.
Without mandated registration, not only can
a gun's source easily be lost through private
sales, but a person who knowingly sells a
gun to criminal can hide behind the lack of
a trail.
--------------end actual article------------
.
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| User: "Bama Brian" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore: Guns Are Okay For Me, But Not For You |
24 Jan 2005 12:10:21 PM |
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JTEM wrote:
"Bama Brian" <bamaNOTbrian@mindspring.com> wrote
I specifically mentioned PRIVATE SALES, not retail
sales by licensed gun dealers.
Nope. Here's what you said:
[---snip distortion---]
This is the article you were responding to. Anyone can
confirm this on google, or I.E. users can click on "show
all" and then "group by conversation." You are clearly
a moron:
Message-ID: <XbGdnfzMMMVBgG_cRVn-pg@comcast.com>
----------begin actual article-------------------
"GreyCloud" <cumulus@mist.com> wrote
Now it's my turn... cite please.
I shouldn't have to point this out, but...
#1) You haven't offered any cites.
#2) You don't need any "cites". You are well
aware that the NRA opposed trigger locks,
and that the maintain their opposition to gun
registration.
Without mandated registration, not only can
a gun's source easily be lost through private
sales, but a person who knowingly sells a
gun to criminal can hide behind the lack of
a trail.
--------------end actual article------------
Ah. So now you argue with a subset of your original premise - and snip
the original out in order to make it appear that I didn't respond to
your argument. Well, not only do you use Ad Hominems in place of
reason, but you lie in order to make a point.
But let's address your last point.
The Federal Form 4473 is filled out on every gun sold through a gunshop
in this country. The form is kept at the gunshop forever, unless the
gunshop goes out of business, in which case the forms are sent to the
BATFE which keeps the forms.
So when the authorities want to trace a gun, they first look at the
BATFE records, and then go look at the gunshop records.
But since the authorities are doing this AFTER a gun has been found used
in the commission of a crime, even this de facto registration hasn't
helped anything.
But, even if registration was required each time a gun changes hands, it
would not solve the problem of how criminals get their guns. Since
registration would not solve that problem, it also would not solve the
gun violence problem.
California, for example, requires ALL gun sales (new, used, commercial,
and private) to be accomplished through a gunshop, with a record kept at
the gunshop. But this has not done a damn thing to lower California's
crime rate. Instead, San Francisco is seeing a 30% increase in
gun-related homicides this year - a fact which is causing the city
supervisors to propose an outright hand gun ban in SF, despite the fact
that this would contravene Calif. state law.
Now, let's see if you have a rebuttal besides the oh-so-juvenile act of
putting your hands over your ears and shouting, "You're wrong, you're
wrong!".
--
Cheers,
Bama Brian
Libertarian
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore: Guns Are Okay For Me, But Not For You |
24 Jan 2005 05:09:10 PM |
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"Bama Brian" <bamaNOTbrian@mindspring.com> wrote
Ah. So now you argue with a subset of your original premise
- and snip the original out in order to make it appear that I
didn't respond to your argument.
Ah. You're retarded. The message ID of the specific article
you were responding to appears in the headers of your
followup. It's the last entry in your references line.
You were replying to the article I re-posted, and not to
the one you pretended you were responding to.
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| User: "RD The Sandman" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore: Guns Are Okay For Me, But Not For You |
23 Jan 2005 12:39:00 PM |
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JTEM wrote:
"Bama Brian" <bamaNOTbrian@mindspring.com> wrote
Just in case you don't see it above, Federal Form 4473
is filled out for every gun sold legally in this country.
It is kept at the gun dealer's shop forever, unless the
gun dealer goes out of business.
I specifically mentioned PRIVATE SALES, not retail
sales by licensed gun dealers.
Just where did you do that?
You're not even responding to what I said. You've
simply invented an argument you "Feel" you can
respond to, then dishonestly attributed it to me.
That's called a "Strawman" argument, if you didn't
already know.
--
Sleep well tonight.........RD (The Sandman)
http://home.comcast.net/~rdsandman
School - Four walls with tomorrow inside.
"The fatal attraction of government is that it allows busybodies to
impose decisions on others without paying any price themselves."
"It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making
decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who
pay no price for being wrong" Author Thomas Sowell
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| User: "RD The Sandman" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore: Guns Are Okay For Me, But Not For You |
23 Jan 2005 12:37:55 PM |
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Bama Brian wrote:
JTEM wrote:
"GreyCloud" <cumulus@mist.com> wrote
Now it's my turn... cite please.
I shouldn't have to point this out, but...
#1) You haven't offered any cites.
#2) You don't need any "cites". You are well
aware that the NRA opposed trigger locks,
and that the maintain their opposition to gun
registration.
Without mandated registration, not only can
a gun's source easily be lost through private
sales, but a person who knowingly sells a
gun to criminal can hide behind the lack of
a trail.
Just in case you don't see it above, Federal Form 4473 is filled out for
every gun sold legally in this country.
For every *new* gun sold in this country or every used gun sold by a
*dealer*.
It is kept at the gun dealer's
shop forever, unless the gun dealer goes out of business. At that time
it is transferred to the BATFE.
This is true.
--
Sleep well tonight.........RD (The Sandman)
http://home.comcast.net/~rdsandman
School - Four walls with tomorrow inside.
"The fatal attraction of government is that it allows busybodies to
impose decisions on others without paying any price themselves."
"It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making
decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who
pay no price for being wrong" Author Thomas Sowell
.
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| User: "RD The Sandman" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore: Guns Are Okay For Me, But Not For You |
23 Jan 2005 12:36:48 PM |
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JTEM wrote:
"GreyCloud" <cumulus@mist.com> wrote
Now it's my turn... cite please.
I shouldn't have to point this out, but...
#1) You haven't offered any cites.
Nor have you.
#2) You don't need any "cites". You are well
aware that the NRA opposed trigger locks,
and that the maintain their opposition to gun
registration.
For reasons other than what you think and those have been posted before.
Without mandated registration, not only can
a gun's source easily be lost through private
sales, but a person who knowingly sells a
gun to criminal can hide behind the lack of
a trail.
Do you distrust everybody so much?
--
Sleep well tonight.........RD (The Sandman)
http://home.comcast.net/~rdsandman
School - Four walls with tomorrow inside.
"The fatal attraction of government is that it allows busybodies to
impose decisions on others without paying any price themselves."
"It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making
decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who
pay no price for being wrong" Author Thomas Sowell
.
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| User: "AH#49 writes" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore: Guns Are Okay For Me, But Not For You |
22 Jan 2005 08:32:42 AM |
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JTEM wrote:
"RD (The Sandman)" <rdsandman@comcast.net> wrote
He stated that people should not be allowed to own
handguns or assault weapons.
Cites?
That's something I've said numerous times.
Then what do you need another cite for, when you already know it's
true?
That's mostly true. Get the criminals to stop carrying
and using guns and then I will consider not carrying
mine.
The NRA has done all in it's power to keep guns in
criminal hands.
You really are a moron.
If the NRA had it's way, criminals that used firearms would be in jail.
It's you fascists that feel sorry for those that commit serious crimes,
and let them back on the streets.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore: Guns Are Okay For Me, But Not For You |
23 Jan 2005 11:12:57 PM |
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"AH#49 writes" <GRONK@BCComics.net> wrote
JTEM wrote:
"RD (The Sandman)" <rdsandman@comcast.net> wrote
He stated that people should not be allowed to own
handguns or assault weapons.
Cites?
That's something I've said numerous times.
Then what do you need another cite for, when you
already know it's true?
It's true that *I* said that people don't need hand guns
or assault weapons, though I would gladly keep all
the assualt weapons the market can bear, if it would
mean an end to handguns.
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| User: "RD The Sandman" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore: Guns Are Okay For Me, But Not For You |
24 Jan 2005 02:32:55 PM |
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JTEM wrote:
"AH#49 writes" <GRONK@BCComics.net> wrote
JTEM wrote:
"RD (The Sandman)" <rdsandman@comcast.net> wrote
He stated that people should not be allowed to own
handguns or assault weapons.
Cites?
That's something I've said numerous times.
Then what do you need another cite for, when you
already know it's true?
It's true that *I* said that people don't need hand guns
or assault weapons, though I would gladly keep all
the assualt weapons the market can bear, if it would
mean an end to handguns.
Why would you deny me the right to own them? I am no threat to you or
anyone else unless you threaten me or mine. I am not the problem you
are trying to solve.
--
Sleep well tonight.........RD (The Sandman)
http://home.comcast.net/~rdsandman
School - Four walls with tomorrow inside.
"The fatal attraction of government is that it allows busybodies to
impose decisions on others without paying any price themselves."
"It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making
decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who
pay no price for being wrong" Author Thomas Sowell
.
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore: Guns Are Okay For Me, But Not For You |
24 Jan 2005 05:02:25 PM |
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"RD (The Sandman)" <rdsandman@comcast.net> wrote
I am not the problem you are trying to solve.
So I shouldn't be worried about people so stupid
or insane that they endorse criminal negligence that
leads to death, promote gun crimes and invent
smears against their imaginary enemies, only to
believe them themselves?
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| User: "Bama Brian" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore: Guns Are Okay For Me, But Not For You |
22 Jan 2005 11:38:08 AM |
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JTEM wrote:
"RD (The Sandman)" <rdsandman@comcast.net> wrote
He stated that people should not be allowed to own
handguns or assault weapons.
Cites?
That's something I've said numerous times.
That's mostly true. Get the criminals to stop carrying
and using guns and then I will consider not carrying
mine.
The NRA has done all in it's power to keep guns in
criminal hands.
They freak at the very idea of placing the exact same
controls that are already on my car onto guns.
The only way to stop criminals from owning guns
is to trace their ownership, their history, so you
can see where the criminals are getting them.
Nonsense. All firearms sold legally in this country are accompanied by
a Federal Form 4473, showing the gun and the buyer's name and address.
The 4473's are kept at the gun dealer's shop forever, unless he goes out
of business, when the 4473's are transferred to the BATFE.
But that's "registration," and the NRA attacked the
idea of gun locks, never mind registration...
That a legitimate owner might need to put his gun into use quickly
doesn't seem to have penetrated your head. That all "approved" gun
locks have been shown to be easily defeated by inquisitive children also
hasn't gotten through to you.
Then you can place liability on manufacturers,
dealers & private owners who supply guns to
criminals.
Manufacturers and dealers don't supply guns to criminals. They sell
only to those persons who pass either the National Instant Check System
run by the FBI, or those who pass a state's approved background check
system. In California, for instance, it's a two week's wait AND passing
the background check system for all guns sold, whether commercially or
privately. But this hasn't slowed gun violence there by any degree.
No, you won't stop criminals from getting guns,
not entirely. But we could have been significantly
reducing their numbers starting decades ago
Criminal wants a gun; he'll get a gun. Criminals in England who want a
gun can get a gun, despite the English total ban on hand guns and
licensing restrictions on long guns and shotguns.
Where do you get your information? VPC/HCI propaganda and outright lies?
--
Cheers,
Bama Brian
Libertarian
..
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Michael Moore: Guns Are Okay For Me, But Not For You |
22 Jan 2005 04:20:09 PM |
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"Bama Brian" <bamaNOTbrian@mindspring.com> wrote
Nonsense. All firearms sold legally in this country
are accompanied by a Federal Form 4473, showing
the gun and the buyer's name and address.
And if that buyer than sells the gun in a legal private
transaction?
As the promblem is guns changing hands, you might
have saw your way to actually addressing the problem
rather issuing pronouncements.
And, oh:
I find it difficult to balance "Gun locks don't work and
are easily removed by children" with "The locks will
stop me from using my gun."
That's something else you might want to think on...
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