| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"J Young" |
| Date: |
22 Mar 2006 01:52:55 PM |
| Object: |
Michigan Seeks to Stop Coercive Abortions |
Perhaps the most hidious crime that the LLL ( Looney Liberal Left ) is guilt
of is the labeling of those amongst their ranks who coerce women into
unwanted abortions as "egalitarians". Ladies, these men are not out for your
best interests, they're out for their own. To them you are just chattel
http://www.family.org/cforum/news/a0039896.cfm
Bill would allow 24-hour waiting period for women forced into killing their
preborn children.
With studies indicating as many as four in 10 women are pressured into
abortions by a boyfriend or parent, Michigan is working to become the first
state to address the problem legislatively.
The Coercive Abortion Prevention Act (CAPA), which is being opposed by
Planned Parenthood, would allow a 24-hour waiting period for a woman if it
is determined she was pressured to end her pregnancy. Sen. Michelle McManus,
the sponsor of the bill, said she wants abortion clinics to find out why
women show up at their door.
"The bill makes it illegal to coerce a female into seeking an abortion," she
said. "We grant a woman the right to a civil lawsuit when she's been
coerced, and require abortion providers to screen for potential coercion."
And the bill gives a woman 24 hours to reconsider and seek help if she is
being forced to end her child's life. McManus said abortion clinics will be
required to tell women of their rights before conducting an abortion.
"And once a woman knows what her legal rights are," she told Family News in
Focus, "she has the opportunity to then seek prosecution."
Barbara Listing, president of Right to Life of Michigan, said McManus'
legislation is pro-woman.
"It does give that woman an avenue, a networking, a way she can talk to
someone," she explained. "And if she is in an abusive situation, (she can)
get help to get out of that abusive situation. So that extra 24-hour waiting
period, I think, will be helpful."
Serrin Foster, president of Feminists for Life, said the plan should get the
support of people on both sides of the abortion debate.
"Those who are pro-life and those who say they believe in all choices,
whether we agree with them or not," she said, "should all agree on the fact
that no woman should have an abortion against her will."
--
----------------
" The truth shall set you free "
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Michigan Seeks to Stop Coercive Abortions |
03 Apr 2006 01:39:08 AM |
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Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Your lack of ethics and fundamental dishonesty show why you should
not be trusted to make medical decisions for anybody but yourself.
Get over yourself Ray
I'm not the one trying to tell other people what they must do.
Get over yourself Ray
I'm not the arrogant ***** who thinks he has some right to tell
other people to obey. YOU are the one with so much ego that you think
you know what's best for people you don't even know.
My lack of ethics and fundamental dishonesty...haha...really get a
grip.
Maybe you should start telling the truth instead.
Maybe you should start telling the truth then too.
Where haven't I?
Or I might ask, where haven't I????
And so you run away like a little dishonest coward.
WHAT a surprise.
Based on your logic
Now you resort to lying again.
We're debating on a google newsgroup not testifiying before the
senate. I guess I have no ethics and am dishonest because I don't bow
down and accept what you say as correct and true.
Strawman. But what I'd expect from someone unethical.
You call it strawman i call it reality
It's reality that you have no ethics?
Works for me.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Don" |
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| Title: Re: Michigan Seeks to Stop Coercive Abortions |
02 Apr 2006 11:30:52 PM |
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Don wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
..If this procedure was
truly necessary to save the life of a pregnant woman than any medical
professional wouldn't hesitate to either perform it
But you're not a medical professional and you want to make it illegal
REGARDLESS of the opinions of medical professionals.
Wrong again I'm a biomedical scientist in one of the country's largest
medical centers
That doens't make you a doctor, you hypocritical control freak.
Lol yeah actually it does
No, it doesn't. There are many "biomedical scientists" who are not
licensed MDs.
Very good Ray - there are plenty of biomedical scientists that are
"licensed PhD's..lol"
So you're reduced to playing games with equivocation.
Your limited knowledge of how medicine works shows through every time
Your lack of ethics and fundamental dishonesty show why you should
not be trusted to make medical decisions for anybody but yourself.
Get over yourself Ray
I'm not the one trying to tell other people what they must do.
Get over yourself Ray
it's ok to admit you don't as much about medicine
and science as I do.
Dr. Mengele knew a lot about medicine as well. So what?
Oh sorry I forgot to address this comment, wait no I didn't....Ray is
back to childish insults and comparing me to a Nazi.....go Ray!! That
hurts, maybe I am a Nazi, yeah that's it I must be a Nazi. Damn Nazi's
who engage in reasonable debate and disagree with Ray Fischer - they're
attempting to take over the world. The world according to Ray - always
has been always will be. Don't disagree with him you damn Nazi's...
Do you realize in your last 6 posts you've posted no relevant debate,
you've merely threw out chilidsh insults and tried to offend people who
didn't agree with you. Really Ray what does that say about you?
[...]
My lack of ethics and fundamental dishonesty...haha...really get a
grip.
Maybe you should start telling the truth instead.
Maybe you should start telling the truth then too. Based on your logic
I disagree with what you've said therefore you're a liar also. Aren't
these kids game fun. Can we go sit at the grown up table now or do you
prefer it down here?
We're debating on a google newsgroup not testifiying before the
senate. I guess I have no ethics and am dishonest because I don't bow
down and accept what you say as correct and true.
Strawman. But what I'd expect from someone unethical.
You call it strawman i call it reality (check...testing 1, 2, 3 is your
brain on?)
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Don" |
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| Title: Re: Michigan Seeks to Stop Coercive Abortions |
02 Apr 2006 11:32:20 PM |
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A great technique from a man intellectually unable to keep up with me
in a reasonable, legitimate debate.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Michigan Seeks to Stop Coercive Abortions |
03 Apr 2006 01:38:02 AM |
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Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
A great technique from a man intellectually unable to keep up with me
in a reasonable, legitimate debate.
.... is to ignore all and then announce oneself to be the superior of
everybody else.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: Michigan Seeks to Stop Coercive Abortions |
03 Apr 2006 01:37:25 AM |
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Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Don wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
..If this procedure was
truly necessary to save the life of a pregnant woman than any medical
professional wouldn't hesitate to either perform it
But you're not a medical professional and you want to make it illegal
REGARDLESS of the opinions of medical professionals.
Wrong again I'm a biomedical scientist in one of the country's largest
medical centers
That doens't make you a doctor, you hypocritical control freak.
Lol yeah actually it does
No, it doesn't. There are many "biomedical scientists" who are not
licensed MDs.
Very good Ray - there are plenty of biomedical scientists that are
"licensed PhD's..lol"
So you're reduced to playing games with equivocation.
Your limited knowledge of how medicine works shows through every time
Your lack of ethics and fundamental dishonesty show why you should
not be trusted to make medical decisions for anybody but yourself.
Get over yourself Ray
I'm not the one trying to tell other people what they must do.
Get over yourself Ray
it's ok to admit you don't as much about medicine
and science as I do.
Dr. Mengele knew a lot about medicine as well. So what?
Oh sorry I forgot to address this comment, wait no I didn't....Ray is
back to childish insults and comparing me to a Nazi.....go Ray!!
You're the one who claims that knowing something about medicine is
relevant to freedom of choice. I simply illustrated why it isn't.
Do you realize in your last 6 posts you've posted no relevant debate,
97% on the irony meter.
he's your debate: A woman does not belong to you, your church, the
state, or the fetus, and you have not right to tell her what to do.
She is not your slave.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Don" |
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| Title: Re: Michigan Seeks to Stop Coercive Abortions |
03 Apr 2006 09:05:43 AM |
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Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Don wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
..If this procedure was
truly necessary to save the life of a pregnant woman than any medical
professional wouldn't hesitate to either perform it
But you're not a medical professional and you want to make it illegal
REGARDLESS of the opinions of medical professionals.
Wrong again I'm a biomedical scientist in one of the country's largest
medical centers
That doens't make you a doctor, you hypocritical control freak.
Lol yeah actually it does
No, it doesn't. There are many "biomedical scientists" who are not
licensed MDs.
Very good Ray - there are plenty of biomedical scientists that are
"licensed PhD's..lol"
So you're reduced to playing games with equivocation.
Your limited knowledge of how medicine works shows through every time
Your lack of ethics and fundamental dishonesty show why you should
not be trusted to make medical decisions for anybody but yourself.
Get over yourself Ray
I'm not the one trying to tell other people what they must do.
Get over yourself Ray
it's ok to admit you don't as much about medicine
and science as I do.
Dr. Mengele knew a lot about medicine as well. So what?
Oh sorry I forgot to address this comment, wait no I didn't....Ray is
back to childish insults and comparing me to a Nazi.....go Ray!!
You're the one who claims that knowing something about medicine is
relevant to freedom of choice. I simply illustrated why it isn't.
It is necessary so that one can intelligently put things in the
"correct" perspective.
Do you realize in your last 6 posts you've posted no relevant debate,
97% on the irony meter.
he's your debate: A woman does not belong to you, your church, the
state, or the fetus, and you have not right to tell her what to do.
She is not your slave.
Actually if a woman resides in the "United States" than she, like the
rest of us is subject to certain rules and laws decided upon by the
people of the country. Those laws may wish to preclude dilation and
extraction abortion procedures as an available elective option and with
all the other contraceptive and "early" term abortion procedures
available, this really shouldn't throw anyone into a tizzy unless they
are an irrational paranoid extremist.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Michigan Seeks to Stop Coercive Abortions |
03 Apr 2006 09:58:44 AM |
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Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Don wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
..If this procedure was
truly necessary to save the life of a pregnant woman than any medical
professional wouldn't hesitate to either perform it
But you're not a medical professional and you want to make it illegal
REGARDLESS of the opinions of medical professionals.
Wrong again I'm a biomedical scientist in one of the country's largest
medical centers
That doens't make you a doctor, you hypocritical control freak.
Lol yeah actually it does
No, it doesn't. There are many "biomedical scientists" who are not
licensed MDs.
Very good Ray - there are plenty of biomedical scientists that are
"licensed PhD's..lol"
So you're reduced to playing games with equivocation.
Your limited knowledge of how medicine works shows through every time
Your lack of ethics and fundamental dishonesty show why you should
not be trusted to make medical decisions for anybody but yourself.
Get over yourself Ray
I'm not the one trying to tell other people what they must do.
Get over yourself Ray
it's ok to admit you don't as much about medicine
and science as I do.
Dr. Mengele knew a lot about medicine as well. So what?
Oh sorry I forgot to address this comment, wait no I didn't....Ray is
back to childish insults and comparing me to a Nazi.....go Ray!!
You're the one who claims that knowing something about medicine is
relevant to freedom of choice. I simply illustrated why it isn't.
It is necessary so that one can intelligently put things in the
"correct" perspective.
Smirk. You really do think you're better than everybody else.
Do you realize in your last 6 posts you've posted no relevant debate,
97% on the irony meter.
he's your debate: A woman does not belong to you, your church, the
state, or the fetus, and you have not right to tell her what to do.
She is not your slave.
Actually if a woman resides in the "United States" than she, like the
rest of us is subject to certain rules and laws decided upon by the
people of the country.
One of those laws being that she is not the property of anybody, and
that she has the right to decide how her own body is used.
Those laws may wish to preclude dilation and
extraction abortion procedures as an available elective option
Not without justification. Not if it means her needless injury or death.
and with
all the other contraceptive and "early" term abortion procedures
available,
And now we see the usual anti-woman anti-sex agenda that drives all of
you anti-choicers. You cannot grasp the notion that an IDE abortion
may be best and may not be wanted. You think that all women do is
wait until the last moment and then choose and abortion on a whim.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "osprey" |
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| Title: Re: Michigan Seeks to Stop Coercive Abortions |
03 Apr 2006 10:05:35 AM |
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Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Don wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
..If this procedure was
truly necessary to save the life of a pregnant woman than any medical
professional wouldn't hesitate to either perform it
But you're not a medical professional and you want to make it illegal
REGARDLESS of the opinions of medical professionals.
Wrong again I'm a biomedical scientist in one of the country's largest
medical centers
That doens't make you a doctor, you hypocritical control freak.
Lol yeah actually it does
No, it doesn't. There are many "biomedical scientists" who are not
licensed MDs.
Very good Ray - there are plenty of biomedical scientists that are
"licensed PhD's..lol"
So you're reduced to playing games with equivocation.
Your limited knowledge of how medicine works shows through every time
Your lack of ethics and fundamental dishonesty show why you should
not be trusted to make medical decisions for anybody but yourself.
Get over yourself Ray
I'm not the one trying to tell other people what they must do.
Get over yourself Ray
it's ok to admit you don't as much about medicine
and science as I do.
Dr. Mengele knew a lot about medicine as well. So what?
Oh sorry I forgot to address this comment, wait no I didn't....Ray is
back to childish insults and comparing me to a Nazi.....go Ray!!
You're the one who claims that knowing something about medicine is
relevant to freedom of choice. I simply illustrated why it isn't.
It is necessary so that one can intelligently put things in the
"correct" perspective.
Smirk. You really do think you're better than everybody else.
Do you realize in your last 6 posts you've posted no relevant debate,
97% on the irony meter.
he's your debate: A woman does not belong to you, your church, the
state, or the fetus, and you have not right to tell her what to do.
She is not your slave.
Actually if a woman resides in the "United States" than she, like the
rest of us is subject to certain rules and laws decided upon by the
people of the country.
One of those laws being that she is not the property of anybody, and
that she has the right to decide how her own body is used.
Those laws may wish to preclude dilation and
extraction abortion procedures as an available elective option
Not without justification. Not if it means her needless injury or death.
and with
all the other contraceptive and "early" term abortion procedures
available,
And now we see the usual anti-woman anti-sex agenda that drives all of
you anti-choicers. You cannot grasp the notion that an IDE abortion
may be best and may not be wanted. You think that all women do is
wait until the last moment and then choose and abortion on a whim.
According to YOU, and your own words in this very posting support what
I am going to say, YOU support a woman's right to abort at the last
moment on a whim.
Go figure it out, then get back to us.
Chances are, you will never figure it out.
.
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| User: "Don" |
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| Title: Re: Michigan Seeks to Stop Coercive Abortions |
03 Apr 2006 01:19:25 PM |
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Let me pose a question to Ray and other's following this debate (or
often very childish name-calling exchange, disguised of course by the
use of our big vocabularies)
Many people in the abortion field/debate have said one of the big goals
in this country should be to significantly lower the abortion rate - as
right now (or as of 2000) nearly 1 in 5 pregnancies ended in abortion.
Ray do you see this goal as a fundamental attack or challenge to your
politics?
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Michigan Seeks to Stop Coercive Abortions |
03 Apr 2006 10:00:55 PM |
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Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Let me pose a question to Ray and other's following this debate (or
often very childish name-calling exchange, disguised of course by the
use of our big vocabularies)
Many people in the abortion field/debate have said one of the big goals
in this country should be to significantly lower the abortion rate - as
right now (or as of 2000) nearly 1 in 5 pregnancies ended in abortion.
Ray do you see this goal as a fundamental attack or challenge to your
politics?
Neither. The only people really interested in reducing abortions are
all pro-choice. Those who are anti-abortion are really only
interested in controlling female sexuallity and subjugating women.
The evidence is clear. Who promote contraception and education to
reduce unwanted pregnancy? Pro-choicers. Who objects to education
and contraception? Abortion opponents. In fact we even see that some
abortion opponents would rather see women dead than "encourage"
sexuality.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "osprey" |
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| Title: Re: Michigan Seeks to Stop Coercive Abortions |
04 Apr 2006 12:22:08 AM |
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Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Let me pose a question to Ray and other's following this debate (or
often very childish name-calling exchange, disguised of course by the
use of our big vocabularies)
Many people in the abortion field/debate have said one of the big goals
in this country should be to significantly lower the abortion rate - as
right now (or as of 2000) nearly 1 in 5 pregnancies ended in abortion.
Ray do you see this goal as a fundamental attack or challenge to your
politics?
Neither. The only people really interested in reducing abortions are
all pro-choice.
Lie
Those who are anti-abortion are really only
interested in controlling female sexuallity and subjugating women.
Lie
The evidence is clear. Who promote contraception and education to
reduce unwanted pregnancy? Pro-choicers. Who objects to education
and contraception? Abortion opponents.
That's a lie. I am a abortion opponent and I don't object to education
and contraceptions at all.
So are you going to change your lie?
In fact, I am on record for being a strong advocate for sex education,
ALL forms of sex education..including abstenance.
In fact we even see that some
abortion opponents would rather see women dead than "encourage"
sexuality.
You state that as fact.
Show your evidence.
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Michigan Seeks to Stop Coercive Abortions |
04 Apr 2006 12:05:31 PM |
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osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Let me pose a question to Ray and other's following this debate (or
often very childish name-calling exchange, disguised of course by the
use of our big vocabularies)
Many people in the abortion field/debate have said one of the big goals
in this country should be to significantly lower the abortion rate - as
right now (or as of 2000) nearly 1 in 5 pregnancies ended in abortion.
Ray do you see this goal as a fundamental attack or challenge to your
politics?
Neither. The only people really interested in reducing abortions are
all pro-choice.
Lie
Impressive rebuttal, *****. Doubtless the best you pro-war
pro-killing anti-choice cretins are capable of.
The evidence is clear. Who promote contraception and education to
reduce unwanted pregnancy? Pro-choicers. Who objects to education
and contraception? Abortion opponents.
That's a lie. I am a abortion opponent
So every time you claimed you were pro-choice you were, as expected,
lying outright. Which is just another reason why nobody believes your
crap any more.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Miriam Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Michigan Seeks to Stop Coercive Abortions |
04 Apr 2006 09:47:00 AM |
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osprey LIED:
I
"One last note: I am very surprised at your reaction especially after
just a few short months ago I provided a copy of my DD214 Right in
box 18...1st line it says... SERVED 2 AUG 90 TO 1 OCT 94 IN SUPPORT
OF OPERATION DESERT SHIELD/STORM and in box 13 NATIONAL DEFENSE SERVICE
MEDAL Funny how you have selective memory, why? Yes, I served in combat
during Desert Storm."
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.abortion/msg/38f5de5691243868?dmode=source&hl=en
"Fine, if you want to play on words...no I was not in actual "combat" "
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/db12fe6b6ec66a35?dmode=source&hl=en
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Michigan Seeks to Stop Coercive Abortions |
03 Apr 2006 09:58:04 PM |
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osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Don wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
..If this procedure was
truly necessary to save the life of a pregnant woman than any medical
professional wouldn't hesitate to either perform it
But you're not a medical professional and you want to make it illegal
REGARDLESS of the opinions of medical professionals.
Wrong again I'm a biomedical scientist in one of the country's largest
medical centers
That doens't make you a doctor, you hypocritical control freak.
Lol yeah actually it does
No, it doesn't. There are many "biomedical scientists" who are not
licensed MDs.
Very good Ray - there are plenty of biomedical scientists that are
"licensed PhD's..lol"
So you're reduced to playing games with equivocation.
Your limited knowledge of how medicine works shows through every time
Your lack of ethics and fundamental dishonesty show why you should
not be trusted to make medical decisions for anybody but yourself.
Get over yourself Ray
I'm not the one trying to tell other people what they must do.
Get over yourself Ray
it's ok to admit you don't as much about medicine
and science as I do.
Dr. Mengele knew a lot about medicine as well. So what?
Oh sorry I forgot to address this comment, wait no I didn't....Ray is
back to childish insults and comparing me to a Nazi.....go Ray!!
You're the one who claims that knowing something about medicine is
relevant to freedom of choice. I simply illustrated why it isn't.
It is necessary so that one can intelligently put things in the
"correct" perspective.
Smirk. You really do think you're better than everybody else.
Do you realize in your last 6 posts you've posted no relevant debate,
97% on the irony meter.
he's your debate: A woman does not belong to you, your church, the
state, or the fetus, and you have not right to tell her what to do.
She is not your slave.
Actually if a woman resides in the "United States" than she, like the
rest of us is subject to certain rules and laws decided upon by the
people of the country.
One of those laws being that she is not the property of anybody, and
that she has the right to decide how her own body is used.
Those laws may wish to preclude dilation and
extraction abortion procedures as an available elective option
Not without justification. Not if it means her needless injury or death.
and with
all the other contraceptive and "early" term abortion procedures
available,
And now we see the usual anti-woman anti-sex agenda that drives all of
you anti-choicers. You cannot grasp the notion that an IDE abortion
may be best and may not be wanted. You think that all women do is
wait until the last moment and then choose and abortion on a whim.
According to YOU, and your own words in this very posting support what
I am going to say, YOU support a woman's right to abort at the last
moment on a whim.
*****, you're still a liar and a dumbshit.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "osprey" |
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| Title: Re: Michigan Seeks to Stop Coercive Abortions |
04 Apr 2006 12:19:45 AM |
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Ray Fischer wrote:
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Don wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
..If this procedure was
truly necessary to save the life of a pregnant woman than any medical
professional wouldn't hesitate to either perform it
But you're not a medical professional and you want to make it illegal
REGARDLESS of the opinions of medical professionals.
Wrong again I'm a biomedical scientist in one of the country's largest
medical centers
That doens't make you a doctor, you hypocritical control freak.
Lol yeah actually it does
No, it doesn't. There are many "biomedical scientists" who are not
licensed MDs.
Very good Ray - there are plenty of biomedical scientists that are
"licensed PhD's..lol"
So you're reduced to playing games with equivocation.
Your limited knowledge of how medicine works shows through every time
Your lack of ethics and fundamental dishonesty show why you should
not be trusted to make medical decisions for anybody but yourself.
Get over yourself Ray
I'm not the one trying to tell other people what they must do.
Get over yourself Ray
it's ok to admit you don't as much about medicine
and science as I do.
Dr. Mengele knew a lot about medicine as well. So what?
Oh sorry I forgot to address this comment, wait no I didn't....Ray is
back to childish insults and comparing me to a Nazi.....go Ray!!
You're the one who claims that knowing something about medicine is
relevant to freedom of choice. I simply illustrated why it isn't.
It is necessary so that one can intelligently put things in the
"correct" perspective.
Smirk. You really do think you're better than everybody else.
Do you realize in your last 6 posts you've posted no relevant debate,
97% on the irony meter.
he's your debate: A woman does not belong to you, your church, the
state, or the fetus, and you have not right to tell her what to do.
She is not your slave.
Actually if a woman resides in the "United States" than she, like the
rest of us is subject to certain rules and laws decided upon by the
people of the country.
One of those laws being that she is not the property of anybody, and
that she has the right to decide how her own body is used.
Those laws may wish to preclude dilation and
extraction abortion procedures as an available elective option
Not without justification. Not if it means her needless injury or death.
and with
all the other contraceptive and "early" term abortion procedures
available,
And now we see the usual anti-woman anti-sex agenda that drives all of
you anti-choicers. You cannot grasp the notion that an IDE abortion
may be best and may not be wanted. You think that all women do is
wait until the last moment and then choose and abortion on a whim.
According to YOU, and your own words in this very posting support what
I am going to say, YOU support a woman's right to abort at the last
moment on a whim.
*****, you're still a liar and a dumbshit.
So you don't support a woman's right to abort at the last moment on a
whim?
Come on Ray Fischer, you have NEVER been able to answer questions asked
of you. I am challenging you now to come clean and actually state your
position..for the record.
Do you support a woman's right to abort at the last moment on a whim?
.
|
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|
| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: Michigan Seeks to Stop Coercive Abortions |
04 Apr 2006 12:07:56 PM |
|
|
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
osprey <noneedtoknow@mail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Don wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
..If this procedure was
truly necessary to save the life of a pregnant woman than any medical
professional wouldn't hesitate to either perform it
But you're not a medical professional and you want to make it illegal
REGARDLESS of the opinions of medical professionals.
Wrong again I'm a biomedical scientist in one of the country's largest
medical centers
That doens't make you a doctor, you hypocritical control freak.
Lol yeah actually it does
No, it doesn't. There are many "biomedical scientists" who are not
licensed MDs.
Very good Ray - there are plenty of biomedical scientists that are
"licensed PhD's..lol"
So you're reduced to playing games with equivocation.
Your limited knowledge of how medicine works shows through every time
Your lack of ethics and fundamental dishonesty show why you should
not be trusted to make medical decisions for anybody but yourself.
Get over yourself Ray
I'm not the one trying to tell other people what they must do.
Get over yourself Ray
it's ok to admit you don't as much about medicine
and science as I do.
Dr. Mengele knew a lot about medicine as well. So what?
Oh sorry I forgot to address this comment, wait no I didn't....Ray is
back to childish insults and comparing me to a Nazi.....go Ray!!
You're the one who claims that knowing something about medicine is
relevant to freedom of choice. I simply illustrated why it isn't.
It is necessary so that one can intelligently put things in the
"correct" perspective.
Smirk. You really do think you're better than everybody else.
Do you realize in your last 6 posts you've posted no relevant debate,
97% on the irony meter.
he's your debate: A woman does not belong to you, your church, the
state, or the fetus, and you have not right to tell her what to do.
She is not your slave.
Actually if a woman resides in the "United States" than she, like the
rest of us is subject to certain rules and laws decided upon by the
people of the country.
One of those laws being that she is not the property of anybody, and
that she has the right to decide how her own body is used.
Those laws may wish to preclude dilation and
extraction abortion procedures as an available elective option
Not without justification. Not if it means her needless injury or death.
and with
all the other contraceptive and "early" term abortion procedures
available,
And now we see the usual anti-woman anti-sex agenda that drives all of
you anti-choicers. You cannot grasp the notion that an IDE abortion
may be best and may not be wanted. You think that all women do is
wait until the last moment and then choose and abortion on a whim.
According to YOU, and your own words in this very posting support what
I am going to say, YOU support a woman's right to abort at the last
moment on a whim.
*****, you're still a liar and a dumbshit.
So you don't support a woman's right to abort at the last moment on a
whim?
That's right, *****. You were wrong yet again.
Come on Ray Fischer, you have NEVER been able to answer questions asked
of you.
Lying is quite the habit with you, isn't it, *****?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
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| User: "Miriam Cohen" |
|
| Title: Re: Michigan Seeks to Stop Coercive Abortions |
04 Apr 2006 09:47:38 AM |
|
|
osprey LIED:
I
"One last note: I am very surprised at your reaction especially after
just a few short months ago I provided a copy of my DD214 Right in
box 18...1st line it says... SERVED 2 AUG 90 TO 1 OCT 94 IN SUPPORT
OF OPERATION DESERT SHIELD/STORM and in box 13 NATIONAL DEFENSE SERVICE
MEDAL Funny how you have selective memory, why? Yes, I served in combat
during Desert Storm."
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.abortion/msg/38f5de5691243868?dmode=source&hl=en
"Fine, if you want to play on words...no I was not in actual "combat" "
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/db12fe6b6ec66a35?dmode=source&hl=en
.
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|
|
| User: "Don" |
|
| Title: Re: Michigan Seeks to Stop Coercive Abortions |
04 Apr 2006 10:59:46 AM |
|
|
Miriam Cohen wrote:
osprey LIED:
Miriam - are you suffering from a psychological disorder?
"One last note: I am very surprised at your reaction especially after
just a few short months ago I provided a copy of my DD214 Right in
box 18...1st line it says... SERVED 2 AUG 90 TO 1 OCT 94 IN SUPPORT
OF OPERATION DESERT SHIELD/STORM and in box 13 NATIONAL DEFENSE SERVICE
MEDAL Funny how you have selective memory, why? Yes, I served in combat
during Desert Storm."
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.abortion/msg/38f5de5691243868?dmode=source&hl=en
"Fine, if you want to play on words...no I was not in actual "combat" "
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/db12fe6b6ec66a35?dmode=source&hl=en
.
|
|
|
|
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|
|
| User: "Miriam Cohen" |
|
| Title: Re: Michigan Seeks to Stop Coercive Abortions |
03 Apr 2006 05:39:10 PM |
|
|
osprey LIED:
I
"One last note: I am very surprised at your reaction especially after
just a few short months ago I provided a copy of my DD214 Right in
box 18...1st line it says... SERVED 2 AUG 90 TO 1 OCT 94 IN SUPPORT
OF OPERATION DESERT SHIELD/STORM and in box 13 NATIONAL DEFENSE SERVICE
MEDAL Funny how you have selective memory, why? Yes, I served in combat
during Desert Storm."
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.abortion/msg/38f5de5691243868?dmode=source&hl=en
"Fine, if you want to play on words...no I was not in actual "combat" "
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/db12fe6b6ec66a35?dmode=source&hl=en
.
|
|
|
| User: "Don" |
|
| Title: Re: Michigan Seeks to Stop Coercive Abortions |
03 Apr 2006 05:51:20 PM |
|
|
Miriam Cohen wrote:
osprey LIED:
I
"One last note: I am very surprised at your reaction especially after
just a few short months ago I provided a copy of my DD214 Right in
box 18...1st line it says... SERVED 2 AUG 90 TO 1 OCT 94 IN SUPPORT
OF OPERATION DESERT SHIELD/STORM and in box 13 NATIONAL DEFENSE SERVICE
MEDAL Funny how you have selective memory, why? Yes, I served in combat
during Desert Storm."
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.abortion/msg/38f5de5691243868?dmode=source&hl=en
"Fine, if you want to play on words...no I was not in actual "combat" "
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/db12fe6b6ec66a35?dmode=source&hl=en
Is that the 3rd of 4th term you've posted this same message? Move on.
.
|
|
|
| User: "osprey" |
|
| Title: Re: Michigan Seeks to Stop Coercive Abortions |
03 Apr 2006 07:47:02 PM |
|
|
Don wrote:
Miriam Cohen wrote:
osprey LIED:
I
"One last note: I am very surprised at your reaction especially after
just a few short months ago I provided a copy of my DD214 Right in
box 18...1st line it says... SERVED 2 AUG 90 TO 1 OCT 94 IN SUPPORT
OF OPERATION DESERT SHIELD/STORM and in box 13 NATIONAL DEFENSE SERVICE
MEDAL Funny how you have selective memory, why? Yes, I served in combat
during Desert Storm."
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.abortion/msg/38f5de5691243868?dmode=source&hl=en
"Fine, if you want to play on words...no I was not in actual "combat" "
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/db12fe6b6ec66a35?dmode=source&hl=en
Is that the 3rd of 4th term you've posted this same message? Move on.
You got to be kidding me, is she still posting that crap? Hell, she
has been following me for months then. What a moron...and sad. She
obviously has no life, and further more she is completely distorting
and taking what I said completely out of context.
.
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| User: "Don" |
|
| Title: Re: Michigan Seeks to Stop Coercive Abortions |
03 Apr 2006 08:13:19 PM |
|
|
What is the debate? You served your country but were not involved in
actual "hand to hand" front line combat. A favorite game of the
extremists on the left. What ever your military service was America
thanks you for it (everyone except those crazy's fallling off the left
ledge).
.
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|
|
| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: Michigan Seeks to Stop Coercive Abortions |
03 Apr 2006 10:02:03 PM |
|
|
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
What is the debate? You served your country but were not involved in
actual "hand to hand" front line combat. A favorite game of the
extremists on the left.
Is that an example of what you call "very childish name-calling"?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "Don" |
|
| Title: Re: Michigan Seeks to Stop Coercive Abortions |
03 Apr 2006 10:39:56 PM |
|
|
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
What is the debate? You served your country but were not involved in
actual "hand to hand" front line combat. A favorite game of the
extremists on the left.
Is that an example of what you call "very childish name-calling"?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
No Ray it's not, please open your eyes. If you did you would see in
this world we have extremists on both the left and the right. I merely
pointed out to Osprey that "extremists" on the left often use the
tactic in question. I did not imply that every democrat was an
extremist nor did I say that every liberal was an extremist.
Likewise when I tell you that your response to my post is similar to
that of a paranoid schizophrenic I am not name calling i'm simply
making a comparison, analogy if you will between your behavior and that
of someone in a paranoid delusional state.
However when you post "your still an ***** and a liar" that would be
an example of "very childish name calling."
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: Michigan Seeks to Stop Coercive Abortions |
03 Apr 2006 11:33:02 PM |
|
|
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
What is the debate? You served your country but were not involved in
actual "hand to hand" front line combat. A favorite game of the
extremists on the left.
Is that an example of what you call "very childish name-calling"?
No Ray it's not, please open your eyes.
No, of COURSE it isn't name calling when YOU do it.
If you did you would see in
this world we have extremists on both the left and the right. I merely
pointed out to Osprey that "extremists" on the left often use the
tactic in question.
Whereas the extremists on the right just kill people?
Likewise when I tell you that your response to my post is similar to
that of a paranoid schizophrenic I am not name calling i'm simply
making a comparison,
Just as I'm not calling names when I refer to you as a hypocritical
*****.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Miriam Cohen" |
|
| Title: Re: Michigan Seeks to Stop Coercive Abortions |
03 Apr 2006 11:38:09 PM |
|
|
osprey LIED:
me
"One last note: I am very surprised at your reaction especially after
just a few short months ago I provided a copy of my DD214 Right in
box 18...1st line it says... SERVED 2 AUG 90 TO 1 OCT 94 IN SUPPORT
OF OPERATION DESERT SHIELD/STORM and in box 13 NATIONAL DEFENSE SERVICE
MEDAL Funny how you have selective memory, why? Yes, I served in combat
during Desert Storm."
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.abortion/msg/38f5de5691243868?dmode=source&hl=en
"Fine, if you want to play on words...no I was not in actual "combat" "
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/db12fe6b6ec66a35?dmode=source&hl=en
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Don" |
|
| Title: Re: Michigan Seeks to Stop Coercive Abortions |
03 Apr 2006 05:52:10 PM |
|
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oops "time"
.
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| User: "Don" |
|
| Title: Re: Michigan Seeks to Stop Coercive Abortions |
03 Apr 2006 01:13:30 PM |
|
|
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Don wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
..If this procedure was
truly necessary to save the life of a pregnant woman than any medical
professional wouldn't hesitate to either perform it
But you're not a medical professional and you want to make it illegal
REGARDLESS of the opinions of medical professionals.
Wrong again I'm a biomedical scientist in one of the country's largest
medical centers
That doens't make you a doctor, you hypocritical control freak.
Lol yeah actually it does
No, it doesn't. There are many "biomedical scientists" who are not
licensed MDs.
Very good Ray - there are plenty of biomedical scientists that are
"licensed PhD's..lol"
So you're reduced to playing games with equivocation.
Your limited knowledge of how medicine works shows through every time
Your lack of ethics and fundamental dishonesty show why you should
not be trusted to make medical decisions for anybody but yourself.
Get over yourself Ray
I'm not the one trying to tell other people what they must do.
Get over yourself Ray
it's ok to admit you don't as much about medicine
and science as I do.
Dr. Mengele knew a lot about medicine as well. So what?
Oh sorry I forgot to address this comment, wait no I didn't....Ray is
back to childish insults and comparing me to a Nazi.....go Ray!!
You're the one who claims that knowing something about medicine is
relevant to freedom of choice. I simply illustrated why it isn't.
It is necessary so that one can intelligently put things in the
"correct" perspective.
Smirk. You really do think you're better than everybody else.
Do you realize in your last 6 posts you've posted no relevant debate,
97% on the irony meter.
he's your debate: A woman does not belong to you, your church, the
state, or the fetus, and you have not right to tell her what to do.
She is not your slave.
Actually if a woman resides in the "United States" than she, like the
rest of us is subject to certain rules and laws decided upon by the
people of the country.
One of those laws being that she is not the property of anybody, and
that she has the right to decide how her own body is used.
Those laws may wish to preclude dilation and
extraction abortion procedures as an available elective option
Not without justification. Not if it means her needless injury or death.
Apparently Ray missed (or chose to leave out) the statment I made
saying these procedures should only be done in a hospital setting under
the care of physician who deems it the best/only available. Again this
position is even more "LIBERAL" than many who think this procedure
should be banned altogether and who believe it is never medically
necessary.
and with
all the other contraceptive and "early" term abortion procedures
available,
And now we see the usual anti-woman anti-sex agenda that drives all of
you anti-choicers. You cannot grasp the notion that an IDE abortion
may be best and may not be wanted. You think that all women do is
wait until the last moment and then choose and abortion on a whim.
Oh Ray this is why you'd never make it in science and the reason I
suspect you have a hard time winning any debates on this subject. Based
on my opinion that D&E abortions should only be used in cases of
extreme medical necessity you conclude that I think all women "wait
until the last moment and choose abortion on a whim." This what we
call a far reaching, incorrect analysis of the data presented. Any
reasonable person reading this post would know that, so I'm not even
going to explain why this is such a mis-guided statement.
I will however, remind you that in the political spectrum I fall very
much as a moderate with some views shifting to the right and some to
the left. Unfortunately it is people like you who cause moderates to
have a distaste for "liberal" democrats. Your extremism will only hurt
your cause and turn people away.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: Michigan Seeks to Stop Coercive Abortions |
03 Apr 2006 10:04:23 PM |
|
|
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Those laws may wish to preclude dilation and
extraction abortion procedures as an available elective option
Not without justification. Not if it means her needless injury or death.
Apparently Ray missed (or chose to leave out) the statment I made
saying these procedures should only be done in a hospital setting under
the care of physician who deems it the best/only available.
Quite the control freak, aren't you? Is it really your intention to
make abortion too expensive for anybody but the wealthy?
Again this
position is even more "LIBERAL" than many who think this procedure
Another example of what you called "very childish name-calling
exchange"?
and with
all the other contraceptive and "early" term abortion procedures
available,
And now we see the usual anti-woman anti-sex agenda that drives all of
you anti-choicers. You cannot grasp the notion that an IDE abortion
may be best and may not be wanted. You think that all women do is
wait until the last moment and then choose and abortion on a whim.
Oh Ray this is why you'd never make it in science
Already did.
and the reason I
suspect you have a hard time winning any debates on this subject. Based
on my opinion
Why do you think that you're opinion is enough justification to make
people suffer?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "Don" |
|
| Title: Re: Michigan Seeks to Stop Coercive Abortions |
03 Apr 2006 10:48:36 PM |
|
|
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Ray Fischer wrote:
Don <shafferdon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Those laws may wish to preclude dilation and
extraction abortion procedures as an available elective option
Not without justification. Not if it means her needless injury or death.
Apparently Ray missed (or chose to leave out) the statment I made
saying these procedures should only be done in a hospital setting under
the care of physician who deems it the best/only available.
Quite the control freak, aren't you? Is it really your intention to
make abortion too expensive for anybody but the wealthy?
Again this
position is even more "LIBERAL" than many who think this procedure
Another example of what you called "very childish name-calling
exchange"?
Are you implying that my use of the word LIBERAL is name calling.
First of all considering the context it is used in the above sentence
it is definitly not name calling. Secondly you are aware that the
misuse of the word liberal was in fact started by left wing socialists
not by conservative republicans?
and with
all the other contraceptive and "early" term abortion procedures
available,
And now we see the usual anti-woman anti-sex agenda that drives all of
you anti-choicers. You cannot grasp the notion that an IDE abortion
may be best and may not be wanted. You think that all women do is
wait until the last moment and then choose and abortion on a whim.
Oh Ray this is why you'd never make it in science
Already did.
and the reason I
suspect you have a hard time winning any debates on this subject. Based
on my opinion
Why do you think that you're opinion is enough justification to make
people suffer?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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