| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Elroy Willis" |
| Date: |
23 Jun 2004 01:45:56 AM |
| Object: |
Mistaken Rapture Story Makes it to HBO |
Greetings,
For those people who don't get HBO, or get it but don't watch
the "Six Feet Under" series on HBO, I am providing the following video
clip of episode 41, entitled "In Case of Rapture."
http://web2.iadfw.net/~elo/videos/mistakenrapture.wmv
For anyone who hasn't read my original story before, I refer you to:
http://web2.iadfw.net/~elo/news/rapturetalk.html
Is there any doubt that the writers of HBO borrowed my story
idea and embellished it to use in their Six Feet Under show?
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
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| User: "Mothergodwacker" |
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| Title: Re: Mistaken Rapture Story Makes it to HBO |
28 Jun 2004 08:21:49 PM |
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"Elroy Willis" <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:0pcid092eeqpgoo3p9uji9ki5cgvn0ds72@4ax.com...
Greetings,
For those people who don't get HBO, or get it but don't watch
the "Six Feet Under" series on HBO, I am providing the following video
clip of episode 41, entitled "In Case of Rapture."
http://web2.iadfw.net/~elo/videos/mistakenrapture.wmv
For anyone who hasn't read my original story before, I refer you to:
http://web2.iadfw.net/~elo/news/rapturetalk.html
Is there any doubt that the writers of HBO borrowed my story
idea and embellished it to use in their Six Feet Under show?
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
Dear Elroy,
I am a great fan of yours and think you ought to sue the bastards for
plagarism, and also serious monetary compensation! The dates don't lie.
By the way, my very favorite article of all time was your bit about the life
sized crucifix in the church that got very popular after unknown assailants
glued a penis to it. I wonder when they'll do THAT on HBO?
Regards
--
Mothergodwacker
Founder Broadview Heights bible Shredding Society
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Mistaken Rapture Story Makes it to HBO |
29 Jun 2004 07:42:12 AM |
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Mothergodwacker <laferme@attglobal.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Interesting name you got there... :)
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
Greetings,
For those people who don't get HBO, or get it but don't watch
the "Six Feet Under" series on HBO, I am providing the following video
clip of episode 41, entitled "In Case of Rapture."
http://web2.iadfw.net/~elo/videos/mistakenrapture.wmv
For anyone who hasn't read my original story before, I refer you to:
http://web2.iadfw.net/~elo/news/rapturetalk.html
Is there any doubt that the writers of HBO borrowed my story
idea and embellished it to use in their Six Feet Under show?
Dear Elroy,
I am a great fan of yours and think you ought to sue the bastards for
plagarism, and also serious monetary compensation! The dates don't lie.
Still no word back from the lawyers I contacted. Guess I'll have
to pick some new ones.
By the way, my very favorite article of all time was your bit about the life
sized crucifix in the church that got very popular after unknown assailants
glued a penis to it. I wonder when they'll do THAT on HBO?
Actually, it was a life-sized statue of Jesus, not a crucifix. :)
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
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| User: "Brian Westley" |
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| Title: Re: Mistaken Rapture Story Makes it to HBO |
23 Jun 2004 09:11:00 AM |
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Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> writes:
Greetings,
For those people who don't get HBO, or get it but don't watch
the "Six Feet Under" series on HBO, I am providing the following video
clip of episode 41, entitled "In Case of Rapture."
http://web2.iadfw.net/~elo/videos/mistakenrapture.wmv
For anyone who hasn't read my original story before, I refer you to:
http://web2.iadfw.net/~elo/news/rapturetalk.html
Is there any doubt that the writers of HBO borrowed my story
idea and embellished it to use in their Six Feet Under show?
You might also want to keep track of the google link, which
helps establish the date of first publication:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=B536AA296C22782E.3169BB5352EA58AB.8D679D7EE2311528%40lp.airnews.net
Also archive.org:
http://web.archive.org/web/20030202193400/web2.airmail.net/~elo/news/
Though I think it's most likely they heard the story as an
urban legend and didn't see a version with your name attached.
But you should still get a story idea credit.
WWED (What Would Ellison Do?)
---
Merlyn LeRoy
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: Mistaken Rapture Story Makes it to HBO |
23 Jun 2004 09:45:03 AM |
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On 23 Jun 2004 14:11:00 GMT in alt.atheism, Brian Westley (Brian
Westley <westley@visi.com>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> writes:
Greetings,
For those people who don't get HBO, or get it but don't watch
the "Six Feet Under" series on HBO, I am providing the following video
clip of episode 41, entitled "In Case of Rapture."
http://web2.iadfw.net/~elo/videos/mistakenrapture.wmv
For anyone who hasn't read my original story before, I refer you to:
http://web2.iadfw.net/~elo/news/rapturetalk.html
Is there any doubt that the writers of HBO borrowed my story
idea and embellished it to use in their Six Feet Under show?
You might also want to keep track of the google link, which
helps establish the date of first publication:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=B536AA296C22782E.3169BB5352EA58AB.8D679D7EE2311528%40lp.airnews.net
Also archive.org:
http://web.archive.org/web/20030202193400/web2.airmail.net/~elo/news/
Though I think it's most likely they heard the story as an
urban legend and didn't see a version with your name attached.
But you should still get a story idea credit.
WWED (What Would Ellison Do?)
Also it was reprinted in several UK mags, crediting the EAC.
Private Eye, for one.
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
Inexpensive VHS & other video to CD/DVD conversion?
See: <http://www.Video2CD.com>. 35.00 gets your video on DVD.
all posts to this email address are automatically deleted without being read.
** atheist poster child #1 ** #442.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Mistaken Rapture Story Makes it to HBO |
24 Jun 2004 09:38:58 AM |
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Brian Westley <westley@visi.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> writes:
Greetings,
Also archive.org:
http://web.archive.org/web/20030202193400/web2.airmail.net/~elo/news/
Wow, this is the first time I've heard about the above. Last year I
accidentally deleted a couple files from my ISP, and the above
link had 'em saved. Like a free backup!
Though I think it's most likely they heard the story as an
urban legend and didn't see a version with your name attached.
But you should still get a story idea credit.
WWED (What Would Ellison Do?)
Ellison who? :)
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
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| User: "Brian Westley" |
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| Title: Re: Mistaken Rapture Story Makes it to HBO |
24 Jun 2004 10:16:49 AM |
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Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> writes:
Brian Westley <westley@visi.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> writes:
Greetings,
Also archive.org:
http://web.archive.org/web/20030202193400/web2.airmail.net/~elo/news/
Wow, this is the first time I've heard about the above. Last year I
accidentally deleted a couple files from my ISP, and the above
link had 'em saved. Like a free backup!
Yeah, archive.org is pretty amazing, like a longer-lived
google cache. I shudder to think what kinds of storage
they use up.
---
Merlyn LeRoy
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Mistaken Rapture Story Makes it to HBO |
24 Jun 2004 10:42:29 AM |
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Brian Westley <westley@visi.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> writes:
Brian Westley <westley@visi.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> writes:
Greetings,
Also archive.org:
http://web.archive.org/web/20030202193400/web2.airmail.net/~elo/news/
Wow, this is the first time I've heard about the above. Last year I
accidentally deleted a couple files from my ISP, and the above
link had 'em saved. Like a free backup!
Yeah, archive.org is pretty amazing, like a longer-lived
google cache. I shudder to think what kinds of storage
they use up.
I was thinking the same thing and also how they choose which
pages to archive. I noticed on their main page that the
stuff they have archived is supposed to be mirrored at the new
digital Library of Alexandria at http://www.bibalex.org.
I dunno what kind of storage they have, but it must be massive.
Hopefully it's spread out among different physical servers at
several different locations around the world, to prevent any
"digital book burnings" by some band of godbots who want to
stamp out the texts of things they don't like like they did with
the original library at Alexandria.
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
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| User: "Brian Westley" |
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| Title: Re: Mistaken Rapture Story Makes it to HBO |
24 Jun 2004 04:48:30 PM |
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One other possibility; the HBO writers could have mistaken the
story for an actual news item, and felt free to use it because
actual events can't be copyrighted.
---
Merlyn LeRoy
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| User: "Brenda Nelson" |
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| Title: Re: Mistaken Rapture Story Makes it to HBO |
24 Jun 2004 03:40:23 PM |
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Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message news:<0pcid092eeqpgoo3p9uji9ki5cgvn0ds72@4ax.com>...
Greetings,
For those people who don't get HBO, or get it but don't watch
the "Six Feet Under" series on HBO, I am providing the following video
clip of episode 41, entitled "In Case of Rapture."
http://web2.iadfw.net/~elo/videos/mistakenrapture.wmv
For anyone who hasn't read my original story before, I refer you to:
http://web2.iadfw.net/~elo/news/rapturetalk.html
Is there any doubt that the writers of HBO borrowed my story
idea and embellished it to use in their Six Feet Under show?
Not a speck of doubt in my mind, Elroy. In spite of a few changed
details, the concept is so unusual as to preclude the possibility that
the writers of _Six Feet Under_ came up with it all by their own
selves.
I'll speak up for you, if necessary.
I think your parodies are so good that you should add a copyright
phrase at the bottom, every time you post one. Not that it would stop
them from being pirated, but at least you'd have U.S. law on your
side.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
Chief Wrangler and Ramrod Emeritus
(and Professor of Feline Thermometrics)
EAC Equine Transportation Command/Carne Seca Division
in the Prefecture of Baja, Arizona
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: Mistaken Rapture Story Makes it to HBO |
24 Jun 2004 04:03:56 PM |
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In article <311596a5.0406241240.23dd0e6c@posting.google.com>,
skyeyes@dakotacom.net says...
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message news:<0pcid092eeqpgoo3p9uji9ki5cgvn0ds72@4ax.com>...
Greetings,
For those people who don't get HBO, or get it but don't watch
the "Six Feet Under" series on HBO, I am providing the following video
clip of episode 41, entitled "In Case of Rapture."
http://web2.iadfw.net/~elo/videos/mistakenrapture.wmv
For anyone who hasn't read my original story before, I refer you to:
http://web2.iadfw.net/~elo/news/rapturetalk.html
Is there any doubt that the writers of HBO borrowed my story
idea and embellished it to use in their Six Feet Under show?
Not a speck of doubt in my mind, Elroy. In spite of a few changed
details, the concept is so unusual as to preclude the possibility that
the writers of _Six Feet Under_ came up with it all by their own
selves.
I'll speak up for you, if necessary.
I think your parodies are so good that you should add a copyright
phrase at the bottom, every time you post one. Not that it would stop
them from being pirated, but at least you'd have U.S. law on your
side.
Let them pirate the idea! Anything that points out to the masses how
ridiculous fundamentalist beliefs really are is a profound public
service.
Elroy, if I had a God, you'd be it!
--
Enkidu - AA# 2165
"Today, the theory of evolution is an accepted fact for
everyone but a fundamentalist minority, whose objections
are based not on reasoning but on doctrinaire adherence
to religious principles"
James D. Watson
http://www.nobel.se/medicine/laureates/1962/watson-bio.html
"The Astonishing Hypothesis is that `You,' your joys and
your sorrows, your memories and your ambitions, your
sense of personal identity and free will, are in fact no
more than the behavior of a vast assembly of nerve cells
and their associated molecules."
Francis Crick
http://www.nobel.se/medicine/laureates/1962/crick-bio.html
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| User: "Gregory Gadow" |
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| Title: Elroy out of luck? (Was: Mistaken Rapture Story Makes it to HBO) |
24 Jun 2004 04:15:28 PM |
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Elroy Willis wrote:
Greetings,
For those people who don't get HBO, or get it but don't watch
the "Six Feet Under" series on HBO, I am providing the following video
clip of episode 41, entitled "In Case of Rapture."
http://web2.iadfw.net/~elo/videos/mistakenrapture.wmv
For anyone who hasn't read my original story before, I refer you to:
http://web2.iadfw.net/~elo/news/rapturetalk.html
Is there any doubt that the writers of HBO borrowed my story
idea and embellished it to use in their Six Feet Under show?
I was talking to a lawyer friend of mine, who made an interesting
observation. I have no idea whether it is accurate or not, as he's not a
copyright lawyer.
He said that the Rapture story, having become an official Urban Legend (as
attested to by the Snopes link) and having appeared in so many different
forms, is de facto public domain and that Elroy therefore has no claim for
remuneration. In other words, the story has been dispersed so widely that
he can't complain when yet another variant is dispersed even more widely.
That isn't to say, of course, that a polite, to the point letter with
supporting documentation won't work, just that Elroy might not have a
legal claim. My friend's advice: find specialist legal advice before doing
anything.
--
Gregory Gadow for Washington State House
Independent, District 43
http://www.gregory-gadow.info
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| User: "JTEM" |
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| Title: Re: Elroy out of luck? (Was: Mistaken Rapture Story Makes it to HBO) |
24 Jun 2004 04:33:46 PM |
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"Gregory Gadow" <techbear@serv.net> wrote
He said that the Rapture story, having become an official
Urban Legend (as attested to by the Snopes link) and
having appeared in so many different forms, is de facto
public domain and that Elroy therefore has no claim for
remuneration. In other words, the story has been
dispersed so widely that he can't complain when yet
another variant is dispersed even more widely.
Out of luck?
Please!
A popular & highly acclaimed television series likes his
writing.
He'd love an opportunity to write some more for them.
Thus far, things appear pretty "lucky" to me...
That isn't to say, of course, that a polite, to the point letter with
supporting documentation won't work, just that Elroy might not have a
legal claim. My friend's advice: find specialist legal advice before doing
anything.
--
Gregory Gadow for Washington State House
Independent, District 43
http://www.gregory-gadow.info
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Elroy out of luck? (Was: Mistaken Rapture Story Makes it to HBO) |
25 Jun 2004 07:33:30 AM |
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Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis wrote:
Greetings,
For those people who don't get HBO, or get it but don't watch
the "Six Feet Under" series on HBO, I am providing the following video
clip of episode 41, entitled "In Case of Rapture."
http://web2.iadfw.net/~elo/videos/mistakenrapture.wmv
For anyone who hasn't read my original story before, I refer you to:
http://web2.iadfw.net/~elo/news/rapturetalk.html
Is there any doubt that the writers of HBO borrowed my story
idea and embellished it to use in their Six Feet Under show?
I was talking to a lawyer friend of mine, who made an interesting
observation. I have no idea whether it is accurate or not, as he's not a
copyright lawyer.
He said that the Rapture story, having become an official Urban Legend (as
attested to by the Snopes link) and having appeared in so many different
forms, is de facto public domain and that Elroy therefore has no claim for
remuneration. In other words, the story has been dispersed so widely that
he can't complain when yet another variant is dispersed even more widely.
I found this one yesterday:
http://louisianaliterature.org/phillips.html
That isn't to say, of course, that a polite, to the point letter with
supporting documentation won't work, just that Elroy might not have a
legal claim. My friend's advice: find specialist legal advice before doing
anything.
I haven't heard back from the copyright lawyers I talked to the other
day. Maybe they wanna watch the full show before deciding if it's
worth suing over, I dunno...
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
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| User: "Brian Westley" |
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| Title: Re: Elroy out of luck? (Was: Mistaken Rapture Story Makes it to HBO) |
25 Jun 2004 08:26:07 AM |
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Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> writes:
Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote in alt.atheism
....
I was talking to a lawyer friend of mine, who made an interesting
observation. I have no idea whether it is accurate or not, as he's not a
copyright lawyer.
He said that the Rapture story, having become an official Urban Legend (as
attested to by the Snopes link) and having appeared in so many different
forms, is de facto public domain and that Elroy therefore has no claim for
remuneration. In other words, the story has been dispersed so widely that
he can't complain when yet another variant is dispersed even more widely.
Elroy, this brings up a good point; when you found other versions
of your story, did you contact the source of that version and tell
them you were the author? This would probably help to show that
you ARE diligent about protecting your work, and could be in your
favor. You contacted Brenner when he used it, and I think you've
mentioned contacting magazines when they've printed it. You can't
lose your copyright just because of widespread violations, you
have to ignore those violations to lose it (which is why e.g.
Disney has to go after mom & pop daycares that use Disney
characters)...
---
Merlyn LeRoy
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Elroy out of luck? (Was: Mistaken Rapture Story Makes it to HBO) |
25 Jun 2004 09:06:50 AM |
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Brian Westley <westley@visi.com> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net> writes:
Gregory Gadow <techbear@serv.net> wrote in alt.atheism
I was talking to a lawyer friend of mine, who made an interesting
observation. I have no idea whether it is accurate or not, as he's
not a copyright lawyer.
He said that the Rapture story, having become an official Urban
Legend (as attested to by the Snopes link) and having appeared in
so many different forms, is de facto public domain and that Elroy
therefore has no claim for remuneration. In other words, the story
has been dispersed so widely that he can't complain when yet another
variant is dispersed even more widely.
Elroy, this brings up a good point; when you found other versions
of your story, did you contact the source of that version and tell
them you were the author?
In the case of snopes.com and the other urban legends sites, they
actually contacted me first, and I verified to them that I was the one
who first wrote the story, and that it was satire, not a true story.
In the case of WWN, I called them myself and talked to the
editor in charge of the story, and he tried to buy me off by offering
me some free advertising space on one of the pages of their
magazine, which I turned down. I could've probably sued WWN
at the time, but I decided not to for some reason. The editor told
me that he received my story in his email box, and decided to use it
because he thought it was a true story. No one at WWN bothered
to type in "rapture helium dolls" or some other keywords into a search
engine to find out if the story was true. If they had, they would
have found my story with little problem.
This would probably help to show that you ARE diligent about protecting
your work, and could be in your favor. You contacted Brenner when he
used it, and I think you've mentioned contacting magazines when they've
printed it. You can't lose your copyright just because of widespread violations,
you have to ignore those violations to lose it (which is why e.g.
Disney has to go after mom & pop daycares that use Disney
characters)...
Good points. Thanks for the input!
If anyone around here personally knows any good copyright lawyers
that might be interested in this case, pass it on to them and if
they're interested in the case, have them contact me. I just picked
a few out of the yellow pages and one that someone else sent me,
but after giving them all the info, none of them have called me back
as of today. It might take a pretty aggressive lawyer to want to deal
with such a case.
For some reason, I picture a lawyer like Jackie Chiles on the Seinfeld
show, and dollar signs flashing in front of his eyes when he saw a
chance to sue the O'Henry candy bar company. :)
Sue HBO, let me at 'em! :)
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: Elroy out of luck? (Was: Mistaken Rapture Story Makes it to HBO) |
25 Jun 2004 09:12:43 AM |
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On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 14:06:50 GMT in alt.atheism, Elroy Willis (Elroy
Willis <elo@airmail.net>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism
[snip]
This may be worth a read:
http://www.allworth.com/Articles/article05.htm
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
Inexpensive VHS & other video to CD/DVD conversion?
See: <http://www.Video2CD.com>. 35.00 gets your video on DVD.
all posts to this email address are automatically deleted without being read.
** atheist poster child #1 ** #442.
.
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| User: "LisaKay" |
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| Title: Re: Elroy out of luck? (Was: Mistaken Rapture Story Makes it to HBO) |
01 Jul 2004 08:05:51 AM |
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Therion Ware <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message news:<7mcod0hp4duq3q0idie02slia1uprmd2ee@4ax.com>...
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 14:06:50 GMT in alt.atheism, Elroy Willis (Elroy
Willis <elo@airmail.net>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism
[snip]
This may be worth a read:
http://www.allworth.com/Articles/article05.htm
Quote from the above site...
"The test is whether an ordinary observer, viewing the original work
and the allegedly infringing work, will believe that copying has
occurred. It is important to understand that style is not
copyrightable. To work in the style of another designer is not a
copyright infringement. Infringement requires copying."
Judging by the fact that we all noticed that you were copied before
you even saw the show, I think you pass the test! I think we count as
"ordinary observers". Even though we are extraordinary.
-LisaKay
aa #2054
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: Elroy out of luck? (Was: Mistaken Rapture Story Makes it to HBO) |
01 Jul 2004 09:03:22 AM |
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On 1 Jul 2004 06:05:51 -0700 in alt.atheism, LisaKay
(LisaKay2054@hotmail.com (LisaKay)) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
Therion Ware <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message news:<7mcod0hp4duq3q0idie02slia1uprmd2ee@4ax.com>...
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 14:06:50 GMT in alt.atheism, Elroy Willis (Elroy
Willis <elo@airmail.net>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism
[snip]
This may be worth a read:
http://www.allworth.com/Articles/article05.htm
Quote from the above site...
"The test is whether an ordinary observer, viewing the original work
and the allegedly infringing work, will believe that copying has
occurred. It is important to understand that style is not
copyrightable. To work in the style of another designer is not a
copyright infringement. Infringement requires copying."
Judging by the fact that we all noticed that you were copied before
you even saw the show, I think you pass the test! I think we count as
"ordinary observers".
WHAT?!
Even though we are extraordinary.
Ok. Saved yourself there.
Damn close run thing though! Are you by chance Prussian?
More generally, it seems that Elroy's problem is not so much the
rightness of his cause, but getting a legal bod to take an interest on
what would presumably be a contingent fee basis. IMO, top whack, with
punitive damages, he'd be looking at a max of USD 50,000.
In the UK, I'd be inclined to sue through "small claims court" - does
anything similar exist in the US? Limited costs, and lots of other
protections.
If it were me, and this had happened in the UK, first thing I'd do is
send an invoice to the TV company, citing the programme, sketch and so
forth.
They will reject it.
I then take it to "small claims," and providing my invoice was around
USD 10,000, the judge has ultimate authority to decide on the basis of
what he thinks is reasonable.
But, alas, law differs between countries....
Or - dare I suggest it -
Judge Judy.
http://www.judgejudy.com/SubmitCase/submitcase.asp
And if all else fails, you get money just for turning up! And Elroy's
case would make *wonderful* television, as well as advertise his name
as a writer. And if Judge Judy wants to fly me out as a witness, I'd
be delighted. Assuming I can get my US visa renewed, given my posting
tendencies in aa. may be problematic!
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
Inexpensive VHS & other video to CD/DVD conversion?
See: <http://www.Video2CD.com>. 35.00 gets your video on DVD.
all posts to this email address are automatically deleted without being read.
** atheist poster child #1 ** #442.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Elroy out of luck? (Was: Mistaken Rapture Story Makes it to HBO) |
01 Jul 2004 09:36:10 AM |
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(LisaKay) wrote in alt.atheism
Therion Ware <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote
in alt.atheism, Elroy Willis wrote:
[snip]
This may be worth a read:
http://www.allworth.com/Articles/article05.htm
Quote from the above site...
"The test is whether an ordinary observer, viewing the original work
and the allegedly infringing work, will believe that copying has
occurred. It is important to understand that style is not
copyrightable. To work in the style of another designer is not a
copyright infringement. Infringement requires copying."
What about embellishment? If someone changes the locale
or names of the characters from some original story, for example?
Judging by the fact that we all noticed that you were copied before
you even saw the show, I think you pass the test! I think we count as
"ordinary observers". Even though we are extraordinary.
If it weren't for the people around here, I would never have known
that WWN used my story, since I don't personally buy WWN. Same
for the article in some British magazine. Same for the HBO Six
Feet Under show, since I never watched it before someone alerted
me to the idea that they might have used my story idea.
There's no way a single person can keep up with every single
publication in the world to see if someone in some other country
or state has used some story idea and embellished it a bit to create
a new story, is there?
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
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| User: "Kathy" |
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| Title: Re: Elroy out of luck? (Was: Mistaken Rapture Story Makes it to HBO) |
01 Jul 2004 11:41:48 AM |
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"Elroy Willis" <elo@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:acb8e0tqgl5jjeqhq0953brd1iun5nbqtr@4ax.com...
LisaKay2054@hotmail.com (LisaKay) wrote in alt.atheism
Therion Ware <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote
in alt.atheism, Elroy Willis wrote:
[snip]
This may be worth a read:
http://www.allworth.com/Articles/article05.htm
Quote from the above site...
"The test is whether an ordinary observer, viewing the original work
and the allegedly infringing work, will believe that copying has
occurred. It is important to understand that style is not
copyrightable. To work in the style of another designer is not a
copyright infringement. Infringement requires copying."
What about embellishment? If someone changes the locale
or names of the characters from some original story, for example?
Judging by the fact that we all noticed that you were copied before
you even saw the show, I think you pass the test! I think we count as
"ordinary observers". Even though we are extraordinary.
If it weren't for the people around here, I would never have known
that WWN used my story, since I don't personally buy WWN. Same
for the article in some British magazine. Same for the HBO Six
Feet Under show, since I never watched it before someone alerted
me to the idea that they might have used my story idea.
There's no way a single person can keep up with every single
publication in the world to see if someone in some other country
or state has used some story idea and embellished it a bit to create
a new story, is there?
Your story would have been pretty easy to check out - if you Google the main
words (mistaken rapture helium dolls) in the story you get to the snopes
site with your writing credit.
If George Harrison can be sued for "My Sweet Lord" who knows, eh?
Personally, I love your stories, and I think perhaps your approach should
be: "I could sue, but I won't, how about a job instead?"
Kathy aa #1802
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| User: "Phillip Brown" |
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| Title: Re: Elroy out of luck? (Was: Mistaken Rapture Story Makes it to HBO) |
05 Jul 2004 02:44:55 AM |
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On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 14:36:10 +0000, Elroy Willis wrote:
LisaKay2054@hotmail.com (LisaKay) wrote in alt.atheism
Therion Ware <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote
in alt.atheism, Elroy Willis wrote:
[snip]
This may be worth a read:
http://www.allworth.com/Articles/article05.htm
Quote from the above site...
"The test is whether an ordinary observer, viewing the original work
and the allegedly infringing work, will believe that copying has
occurred. It is important to understand that style is not
copyrightable. To work in the style of another designer is not a
copyright infringement. Infringement requires copying."
What about embellishment? If someone changes the locale or names of the
characters from some original story, for example?
c.f. the recent 'Russian Harry Potter' case
In April 2003, a Dutch Court found in favour of J.K. Rowling, the author
of the Harry Potter series and prohibited the distribution of 7000 copies
of a book by Russian author Dimitry Yemets entitled "Tanya Grotter and the
Magic Double Bass". The text was found to be an infringing adaptation, not
a non-infringing parody.
Also, someone said earlier that it can pass into the public domain if it
is not defended - that is incorrect. Trademarks can be diluted if they are
not defended, and eventually become public property. You don't have to
defend very vigorously, but you have to show that at least you made the
effort. Copyright, OTOH, can only be transferred in writing, and can only
pass into the public domain by an act of assignment by the copyright
holder, or when the copyright expires, which in the US, so long as the
Disney corp keeps getting its way, is more-or-less forever. Also,
Copyright is implicit in the act of publication since about the mid 70's,
IIRC, although it is best to register it if you want to take action against
anyone.
Note - IANAL, but I read groklaw.net
phillip brown
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Elroy out of luck? (Was: Mistaken Rapture Story Makes it to HBO) |
01 Jul 2004 10:27:27 AM |
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On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 06:05:51 -0700 in episode
<1dbe2aec.0407010505.628e54f9@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
LisaKay2054@hotmail.com (LisaKay):
Therion Ware <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:<7mcod0hp4duq3q0idie02slia1uprmd2ee@4ax.com>...
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 14:06:50 GMT in alt.atheism, Elroy Willis (Elroy
Willis <elo@airmail.net>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism
[snip]
This may be worth a read:
http://www.allworth.com/Articles/article05.htm
Quote from the above site...
"The test is whether an ordinary observer, viewing the original work
and the allegedly infringing work, will believe that copying has occurred.
It is important to understand that style is not copyrightable. To work in
the style of another designer is not a copyright infringement.
Infringement requires copying."
Judging by the fact that we all noticed that you were copied before you
even saw the show, I think you pass the test! I think we count as
"ordinary observers". Even though we are extraordinary.
That so many of us had the reaction of "that's Elroy's story!" is serious
indication of infringement. My own reaction wasn't at *all "that's like
something Elroy wrote." It was "that *is Elroy's story."
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"I think it's the worst kept secret in Washington.
That everybody - everybody I talk to in Washington
has known and fully knows what [the neo-conservative]
agenda was and what they were trying to do."
[Retired General Anthony Zinni]
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| User: "Apostate" |
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| Title: Re: Elroy out of luck? (Was: Mistaken Rapture Story Makes it to HBO) |
07 Jul 2004 04:11:39 PM |
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On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 10:27:27 -0500, "Mark K. Bilbo" <inv@lid_email.no> wrote in alt.atheism:
On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 06:05:51 -0700 in episode
<1dbe2aec.0407010505.628e54f9@posting.google.com> we saw our hero
LisaKay2054@hotmail.com (LisaKay):
Therion Ware <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:<7mcod0hp4duq3q0idie02slia1uprmd2ee@4ax.com>...
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 14:06:50 GMT in alt.atheism, Elroy Willis (Elroy
Willis <elo@airmail.net>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism
[snip]
This may be worth a read:
http://www.allworth.com/Articles/article05.htm
Quote from the above site...
"The test is whether an ordinary observer, viewing the original work
and the allegedly infringing work, will believe that copying has occurred.
It is important to understand that style is not copyrightable. To work in
the style of another designer is not a copyright infringement.
Infringement requires copying."
Judging by the fact that we all noticed that you were copied before you
even saw the show, I think you pass the test! I think we count as
"ordinary observers". Even though we are extraordinary.
That so many of us had the reaction of "that's Elroy's story!" is serious
indication of infringement. My own reaction wasn't at *all "that's like
something Elroy wrote." It was "that *is Elroy's story."
Reading people's discussion makes that impression clearly enough.
Seeing the scene leaves no room for argument.
--
/Apostate
atheist #(e^7.5657933) I've found it!
BAAWA Knife AND SMASHer
EAC Supernumerary Deputy Director, Department of Redundancy Department
plonked by Lani_girl, first post; billions served!
I doubt, therefore I might be.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Elroy out of luck? (Was: Mistaken Rapture Story Makes it to HBO) |
08 Jul 2004 05:49:44 AM |
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Apostate <Apostate.invalid@yeehaw.org> wrote in alt.atheism
Mark K. Bilbo <inv@lid_email.no> wrote in alt.atheism:
LisaKay2054@hotmail.com (LisaKay):
That so many of us had the reaction of "that's Elroy's story!" is serious
indication of infringement. My own reaction wasn't at *all "that's like
something Elroy wrote." It was "that *is Elroy's story."
Reading people's discussion makes that impression clearly enough.
Seeing the scene leaves no room for argument.
Here's an email I got from one of the lawyers who looked at the
info I sent him:
Here's the thinking. I see these kinds of cases fairly routinely.
They cost $25,000 to $100,000 to prosecute, which you will not
likely want to pay out of pocket. I will not take one on contingency
(or will most other lawyers unless they don't know what they are doing)
because there are many reasons the case may not go your way.
I've talked to several others who said basically the same thing. Some
of them said I have a pretty good case, but not enough to take on the
case, at least on a contingency basis.
I guess they're all figuring on the case actually making it into
court, instead of HBO possibly settling out of court.
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Elroy out of luck? (Was: Mistaken Rapture Story Makes it to HBO) |
08 Jul 2004 04:34:54 PM |
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On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 10:49:44 +0000 in episode
<lt8qe0hr8dqfffqr0qqaatrv5blk99r3ud@4ax.com> we saw our hero Elroy Willis
<elo@airmail.net>:
Apostate <Apostate.invalid@yeehaw.org> wrote in alt.atheism
Mark K. Bilbo <inv@lid_email.no> wrote in alt.atheism:
LisaKay2054@hotmail.com (LisaKay):
That so many of us had the reaction of "that's Elroy's story!" is
serious indication of infringement. My own reaction wasn't at *all
"that's like something Elroy wrote." It was "that *is Elroy's story."
Reading people's discussion makes that impression clearly enough. Seeing
the scene leaves no room for argument.
Here's an email I got from one of the lawyers who looked at the info I
sent him:
Here's the thinking. I see these kinds of cases fairly routinely. They
cost $25,000 to $100,000 to prosecute, which you will not likely want to
pay out of pocket. I will not take one on contingency (or will most
other lawyers unless they don't know what they are doing) because there
are many reasons the case may not go your way.
I've talked to several others who said basically the same thing. Some of
them said I have a pretty good case, but not enough to take on the case,
at least on a contingency basis.
I guess they're all figuring on the case actually making it into court,
instead of HBO possibly settling out of court.
I'm surprised, I would figure HBO would try to settle pretty much
immediately.
(But, then, I'm not a lawyer)
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
"I think it's the worst kept secret in Washington.
That everybody - everybody I talk to in Washington
has known and fully knows what [the neo-conservative]
agenda was and what they were trying to do."
[Retired General Anthony Zinni]
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Elroy out of luck? (Was: Mistaken Rapture Story Makes it to HBO) |
09 Jul 2004 07:27:42 AM |
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Mark K. Bilbo <inv@lid_email.no> wrote in alt.atheism
we saw our hero Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net>:
Apostate <Apostate.invalid@yeehaw.org> wrote in alt.atheism
Mark K. Bilbo <inv@lid_email.no> wrote in alt.atheism:
LisaKay2054@hotmail.com (LisaKay):
That so many of us had the reaction of "that's Elroy's story!" is
serious indication of infringement. My own reaction wasn't at *all
"that's like something Elroy wrote." It was "that *is Elroy's story."
Reading people's discussion makes that impression clearly enough. Seeing
the scene leaves no room for argument.
Here's an email I got from one of the lawyers who looked at the info I
sent him:
Here's the thinking. I see these kinds of cases fairly routinely. They
cost $25,000 to $100,000 to prosecute, which you will not likely want to
pay out of pocket. I will not take one on contingency (or will most
other lawyers unless they don't know what they are doing) because there
are many reasons the case may not go your way.
I've talked to several others who said basically the same thing. Some of
them said I have a pretty good case, but not enough to take on the case,
at least on a contingency basis.
I guess they're all figuring on the case actually making it into court,
instead of HBO possibly settling out of court.
I'm surprised, I would figure HBO would try to settle pretty much
immediately.
Same here. I guess it depends on how much one threatens to sue
HBO for, I would think. If it's a million dollars, sure, I could see
HBO dragging the case into court and trying to win, but in a case
this small, I'd think that they'd be willing to settle out of court
and save both sides some money.
(But, then, I'm not a lawyer)
I've never been involved in a law suit before, much less one like
this, so I'm pretty much clueless.
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Elroy out of luck? (Was: Mistaken Rapture Story Makes it to HBO) |
09 Jul 2004 07:05:31 PM |
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On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 12:27:42 +0000 in episode
<gr6te0dcm1pfj780jiiomnpngpmlang7mc@4ax.com> we saw our hero Elroy Willis
<elo@airmail.net>:
Mark K. Bilbo <inv@lid_email.no> wrote in alt.atheism
we saw our hero Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net>:
Apostate <Apostate.invalid@yeehaw.org> wrote in alt.atheism
Mark K. Bilbo <inv@lid_email.no> wrote in alt.atheism:
LisaKay2054@hotmail.com (LisaKay):
That so many of us had the reaction of "that's Elroy's story!" is
serious indication of infringement. My own reaction wasn't at *all
"that's like something Elroy wrote." It was "that *is Elroy's story."
Reading people's discussion makes that impression clearly enough.
Seeing the scene leaves no room for argument.
Here's an email I got from one of the lawyers who looked at the info I
sent him:
Here's the thinking. I see these kinds of cases fairly routinely.
They cost $25,000 to $100,000 to prosecute, which you will not likely
want to pay out of pocket. I will not take one on contingency (or
will most other lawyers unless they don't know what they are doing)
because there are many reasons the case may not go your way.
I've talked to several others who said basically the same thing. Some
of them said I have a pretty good case, but not enough to take on the
case, at least on a contingency basis.
I guess they're all figuring on the case actually making it into court,
instead of HBO possibly settling out of court.
I'm surprised, I would figure HBO would try to settle pretty much
immediately.
Same here. I guess it depends on how much one threatens to sue HBO for, I
would think. If it's a million dollars, sure, I could see HBO dragging
the case into court and trying to win, but in a case this small, I'd think
that they'd be willing to settle out of court and save both sides some
money.
(But, then, I'm not a lawyer)
I've never been involved in a law suit before, much less one like this, so
I'm pretty much clueless.
I still wonder if you couldn't find somebody who'd at *least send them an
ominous letter. Even if it cost a bit to do? Maybe they could at least be
convinced to give you a credit for the story...
(Myself, I'd be after that credit. The money of the case probably wouldn't
be much. The *writing credit means something though. Especially given that
*is an award winning show.)
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels.
.
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Elroy out of luck? (Was: Mistaken Rapture Story Makes it to HBO) |
10 Jul 2004 06:44:22 AM |
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Mark K. Bilbo <alt-atheism@org.hostmaster> wrote in alt.atheism
we saw our hero Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net>:
I still wonder if you couldn't find somebody who'd at *least send them an
ominous letter. Even if it cost a bit to do? Maybe they could at least be
convinced to give you a credit for the story...
I could do that myself. I dunno if they require the letter to
actually come from a law office to take it seriously.
(Myself, I'd be after that credit. The money of the case probably wouldn't
be much. The *writing credit means something though. Especially given that
*is an award winning show.)
Where would the credit it show up? On the re-runs?
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: Elroy out of luck? (Was: Mistaken Rapture Story Makes it to HBO) |
10 Jul 2004 07:32:34 AM |
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On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 11:44:22 GMT in alt.atheism, Elroy Willis (Elroy
Willis <elo@airmail.net>) said, directing the reply to alt.atheism
Mark K. Bilbo <alt-atheism@org.hostmaster> wrote in alt.atheism
we saw our hero Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net>:
I still wonder if you couldn't find somebody who'd at *least send them an
ominous letter. Even if it cost a bit to do? Maybe they could at least be
convinced to give you a credit for the story...
I could do that myself. I dunno if they require the letter to
actually come from a law office to take it seriously.
In the UK most solicitors (the legal, not the other kind[1]) charge a
flat fee of a tenner + VAT for a threatening letter.
(Myself, I'd be after that credit. The money of the case probably wouldn't
be much. The *writing credit means something though. Especially given that
*is an award winning show.)
Where would the credit it show up? On the re-runs?
Sure. And don't forget repeat fees. In the age of thousands of
channels while each individual payment may not be a lot, it mounts up
over time (and then of course the tax man gets you).
[1]. Who in general don't have briefs.
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
Inexpensive VHS & other video to CD/DVD conversion?
See: <http://www.Video2CD.com>. 35.00 gets your video on DVD.
all posts to this email address are automatically deleted without being read.
** atheist poster child #1 ** #442.
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Elroy out of luck? (Was: Mistaken Rapture Story Makes it to HBO) |
10 Jul 2004 08:11:02 AM |
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On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 11:44:22 +0000 in episode
<40pve0lsjtgh30nad6e18oqrdtjj6vfa3g@4ax.com> we saw our hero Elroy Willis
<elo@airmail.net>:
Mark K. Bilbo <alt-atheism@org.hostmaster> wrote in alt.atheism
we saw our hero Elroy Willis <elo@airmail.net>:
I still wonder if you couldn't find somebody who'd at *least send them
an ominous letter. Even if it cost a bit to do? Maybe they could at
least be convinced to give you a credit for the story...
I could do that myself. I dunno if they require the letter to actually
come from a law office to take it seriously.
(Myself, I'd be after that credit. The money of the case probably
wouldn't be much. The *writing credit means something though. Especially
given that *is an award winning show.)
Where would the credit it show up? On the re-runs?
I would assume it would. Also in the records kept for shows. I remember
having to fill out paperwork for such things all the time. <g>
(Usually WGAw paperwork. The Guild does pay attention to these things.)
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
--------------------------------------------------
There is no system but GNU, and Linux is one of its kernels.
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