| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"wbarwell" |
| Date: |
03 Feb 2006 07:46:53 AM |
| Object: |
Mohammed toons. |
I am amazed at how mild these cartoons
are despite the fuss. They are rather wimpy.
One could do far worse by simply illustrating
the evil life of Mohammed in cartoon form, a
list of atrocities and presumptions and stupidities
found in the Quran, early biographies of the
non-prophet such as Ibn Ishaq, and the Hadiths.
He was murdering scum, and a pedophile.
Listing his criminal acts and illustrating them
with cartoons would really make these scum
drool. Because such always hate truth.
Ibn Ishaq's biography of Mohammed, written
120 years after his death and drawing on a
few erlier works is not online unfortunately.
The uglier parts of the Quran, illustrated
would be something I'd like to see,
--
The first law of the false prophet has
always and ever been "Don't laugh!"
Cheerful Charlie
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Mohammed toons. |
03 Feb 2006 09:12:08 AM |
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In <11u6nk5efk1r40d@corp.supernews.com>, wbarwell
<wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
I am amazed at how mild these cartoons are despite the fuss. They are
rather wimpy.
I understand that certain folks distributed *other cartoons which did *not
originate with the publications in question for the purpose of whipping
people into a frenzy.
Like, you know, tactics Falwell and his sort use all the time.
One could do far worse by simply illustrating the evil life of Mohammed in
cartoon form, a list of atrocities and presumptions and stupidities found
in the Quran, early biographies of the non-prophet such as Ibn Ishaq, and
the Hadiths.
He was murdering scum, and a pedophile.
Not to defend the man but I do have to ask if the claim of pedophilia is
a case of "presentism" (as I've seen it called). You know the age of
consent in Euro-American cultures was as low as 10 in the not *too distant
past? Age of consent has risen over time as the human life span has
increased. We've "extended" childhood as it were.
But my question is whether it was normal in his culture at the time or not
to take a bride as young as the one (ones?) he's said to have.
Listing his criminal acts and illustrating them with cartoons would really
make these scum drool. Because such always hate truth.
Hating truth is a tenet of fundamentalism eh?
Ibn Ishaq's biography of Mohammed, written 120 years after his death and
drawing on a few erlier works is not online unfortunately.
The uglier parts of the Quran, illustrated would be something I'd like to
see,
I'm curious about the ones who say Mohammed never existed. Interesting
thought that...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
Katrina aftermath pictures
http://www.nola.com/katrinaphotos/user/
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.
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| User: "wbarwell" |
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| Title: Re: Mohammed toons. |
03 Feb 2006 11:02:08 AM |
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Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
In <11u6nk5efk1r40d@corp.supernews.com>, wbarwell
<wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
I am amazed at how mild these cartoons are despite the fuss. They are
rather wimpy.
I understand that certain folks distributed *other cartoons which did
*not originate with the publications in question for the purpose of
whipping people into a frenzy.
Like, you know, tactics Falwell and his sort use all the time.
One could do far worse by simply illustrating the evil life of
Mohammed in cartoon form, a list of atrocities and presumptions and
stupidities found in the Quran, early biographies of the non-prophet
such as Ibn Ishaq, and the Hadiths.
He was murdering scum, and a pedophile.
Not to defend the man but I do have to ask if the claim of pedophilia
is a case of "presentism" (as I've seen it called). You know the age of
consent in Euro-American cultures was as low as 10 in the not *too
distant past? Age of consent has risen over time as the human life span
has increased. We've "extended" childhood as it were.
It has been a case tha marriage ages wre low in many cases, but usually
it was a case of young people married together. Its not uncommon in
India for arranged marriages to be set up between 6 years olds for
example, though they do not consumate that marriage until their teens.
In Mohammed's case, it was a 45 year old man and a 6 year old girl, and
he presumed on a follower of his, claiming Allah willed it. he had ten
wives at the end of his life.
For a 45 year old prophet to presume on a follower in case of a
6 year old girl is pedophilism.
Though he waited til she was 9 to consumate the marriage.
This is not common except among degenerate and wealthy
sheiks, and other scum. It is not at all uncommon for
wealthy shieks to import 10, 11- 12 year old "wives"
from India or Pakistan, often paying good money to
select a choice girl from poor and callous parents.
Its not something most people in these nations approve of.
These girls are no more than slaves, concubines,
sold off to 60 year sold slavering geezers.
Its no more acceptable than sex tourism in Thailand
or some such, where 12 and 13 years old girls bring
a big premium.
What Mohammed did is not normal and is not the
sort of thing as two 14 years old marrying which
is not unknown in many parts of that world either.
A 45 year old prophet putting the old "God wants this"
on a follower for the sexual favors of a 6 year old
girl is sick as hell.
Islam was a cult and accepted it for the same reason
cults accept evil antics of leaders like Jim Jones,
or Reverand Moon, both of whose cults involved sexual
shennigans at the top, or Dave Berg's pedophilic
Children of God.
And it was then.
But my question is whether it was normal in his culture at the time or
not to take a bride as young as the one (ones?) he's said to have.
Not in the least. 45 year old men with several wives did not
generally look for 6 years olds to add to the Harem.
Except the pervets so rich they can get away with it like todays
toothless buyers of youn Bangldeshi peasant girls.
Listing his criminal acts and illustrating them with cartoons would
really
make these scum drool. Because such always hate truth.
Hating truth is a tenet of fundamentalism eh?
Cults, sects, religions, and more.
I battle this often in alt.religion.scientology.
Truth there can be dangerous to you.
Ibn Ishaq's biography of Mohammed, written 120 years after his death
and drawing on a few erlier works is not online unfortunately.
The uglier parts of the Quran, illustrated would be something I'd like
to see,
I'm curious about the ones who say Mohammed never existed. Interesting
thought that...
He existed. And quite a bit was known about him.
Early biographies were written soon after his death.
Some of these were collected by a writer who Isaq used
for his biography, which pissed of a lot of people who hated the truth.
His manuscript did not come down to us whole but large sections were
quoted by writers who allowed a later writer to recover Ishaq's
book bit by bit. a century after he died.
A few sections of earlier materials exist. Hadiths, sayings
and doings of Mohammed were collected early on.
Later ones are filled with lies, but early one probably are not totally
untrustworthy. Early collectors of Hadiths toss out those that were
obvious frauds.
immediately after his death this started, people started writing
as soon as they were able.
See Ibn Warraq for more on Mohammed and the Quran's history.
--
The first law of the false prophet has
always and ever been "Don't laugh!"
Cheerful Charlie
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Mohammed toons. |
03 Feb 2006 11:37:23 AM |
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On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 11:02:08 -0600, in alt.atheism , wbarwell
<wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> in <11u7327ipq9v705@corp.supernews.com>
wrote:
[snip]
In Mohammed's case, it was a 45 year old man and a 6 year old girl, and
he presumed on a follower of his, claiming Allah willed it. he had ten
wives at the end of his life.
For a 45 year old prophet to presume on a follower in case of a
6 year old girl is pedophilism.
What was the standards of the culture at the time?
[snip]
Islam was a cult and accepted it for the same reason
cults accept evil antics of leaders like Jim Jones,
What is the difference between a cult and a religion?
[snip]
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Mohammed toons. |
04 Feb 2006 05:25:31 PM |
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On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 17:37:23 GMT, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in alt.atheism
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 11:02:08 -0600, in alt.atheism , wbarwell
<wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> in <11u7327ipq9v705@corp.supernews.com>
wrote:
[snip]
In Mohammed's case, it was a 45 year old man and a 6 year old girl, and
he presumed on a follower of his, claiming Allah willed it. he had ten
wives at the end of his life.
For a 45 year old prophet to presume on a follower in case of a
6 year old girl is pedophilism.
What was the standards of the culture at the time?
[snip]
Islam was a cult and accepted it for the same reason
cults accept evil antics of leaders like Jim Jones,
What is the difference between a cult and a religion?
Numbers of adherants.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
|
| Title: Re: Mohammed toons. |
04 Feb 2006 10:35:00 PM |
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On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 15:25:31 -0800, in alt.atheism , stoney
<stoney@the.net> in <qudau1tpd78so6bdk8m3i0ah5o3uqca44d@4ax.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 17:37:23 GMT, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in alt.atheism
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 11:02:08 -0600, in alt.atheism , wbarwell
<wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> in <11u7327ipq9v705@corp.supernews.com>
wrote:
[snip]
In Mohammed's case, it was a 45 year old man and a 6 year old girl, and
he presumed on a follower of his, claiming Allah willed it. he had ten
wives at the end of his life.
For a 45 year old prophet to presume on a follower in case of a
6 year old girl is pedophilism.
What was the standards of the culture at the time?
[snip]
Islam was a cult and accepted it for the same reason
cults accept evil antics of leaders like Jim Jones,
What is the difference between a cult and a religion?
Numbers of adherants.
Probably. Personally I like the distinction that a cult is a religion
that grows more through conversion than births. That is what
particularly upsets people, that they "taking" people.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Mohammed toons. |
05 Feb 2006 12:11:04 PM |
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On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 04:35:00 GMT, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in alt.atheism
On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 15:25:31 -0800, in alt.atheism , stoney
<stoney@the.net> in <qudau1tpd78so6bdk8m3i0ah5o3uqca44d@4ax.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 17:37:23 GMT, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in alt.atheism
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 11:02:08 -0600, in alt.atheism , wbarwell
<wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> in <11u7327ipq9v705@corp.supernews.com>
wrote:
[snip]
In Mohammed's case, it was a 45 year old man and a 6 year old girl, and
he presumed on a follower of his, claiming Allah willed it. he had ten
wives at the end of his life.
For a 45 year old prophet to presume on a follower in case of a
6 year old girl is pedophilism.
What was the standards of the culture at the time?
[snip]
Islam was a cult and accepted it for the same reason
cults accept evil antics of leaders like Jim Jones,
What is the difference between a cult and a religion?
Numbers of adherants.
Probably. Personally I like the distinction that a cult is a religion
that grows more through conversion than births. That is what
particularly upsets people, that they "taking" people.
Both christianity and islam fit that description for a good chunk of
time.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Mohammed toons. |
05 Feb 2006 04:58:33 PM |
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On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 10:11:04 -0800, in alt.atheism , stoney
<stoney@the.net> in <dsfcu1derbondqlju7vfmsmu94vsvk8t6k@4ax.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 04:35:00 GMT, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in alt.atheism
On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 15:25:31 -0800, in alt.atheism , stoney
<stoney@the.net> in <qudau1tpd78so6bdk8m3i0ah5o3uqca44d@4ax.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 17:37:23 GMT, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in alt.atheism
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 11:02:08 -0600, in alt.atheism , wbarwell
<wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> in <11u7327ipq9v705@corp.supernews.com>
wrote:
[snip]
In Mohammed's case, it was a 45 year old man and a 6 year old girl, and
he presumed on a follower of his, claiming Allah willed it. he had ten
wives at the end of his life.
For a 45 year old prophet to presume on a follower in case of a
6 year old girl is pedophilism.
What was the standards of the culture at the time?
[snip]
Islam was a cult and accepted it for the same reason
cults accept evil antics of leaders like Jim Jones,
What is the difference between a cult and a religion?
Numbers of adherants.
Probably. Personally I like the distinction that a cult is a religion
that grows more through conversion than births. That is what
particularly upsets people, that they "taking" people.
Both christianity and islam fit that description for a good chunk of
time.
Of course, the distinction is one that changes over time.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Mohammed toons. |
06 Feb 2006 05:06:18 PM |
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On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 22:58:33 GMT, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in alt.atheism
On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 10:11:04 -0800, in alt.atheism , stoney
<stoney@the.net> in <dsfcu1derbondqlju7vfmsmu94vsvk8t6k@4ax.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 04:35:00 GMT, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in alt.atheism
On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 15:25:31 -0800, in alt.atheism , stoney
<stoney@the.net> in <qudau1tpd78so6bdk8m3i0ah5o3uqca44d@4ax.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 17:37:23 GMT, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in alt.atheism
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 11:02:08 -0600, in alt.atheism , wbarwell
<wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> in <11u7327ipq9v705@corp.supernews.com>
wrote:
[snip]
In Mohammed's case, it was a 45 year old man and a 6 year old girl, and
he presumed on a follower of his, claiming Allah willed it. he had ten
wives at the end of his life.
For a 45 year old prophet to presume on a follower in case of a
6 year old girl is pedophilism.
What was the standards of the culture at the time?
[snip]
Islam was a cult and accepted it for the same reason
cults accept evil antics of leaders like Jim Jones,
What is the difference between a cult and a religion?
Numbers of adherants.
Probably. Personally I like the distinction that a cult is a religion
that grows more through conversion than births. That is what
particularly upsets people, that they "taking" people.
Both christianity and islam fit that description for a good chunk of
time.
Of course, the distinction is one that changes over time.
That's what I said.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
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| User: "Rune B" |
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| Title: Re: Mohammed toons. |
03 Feb 2006 09:23:01 AM |
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On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:12:08 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
Say... does anyone besides maff really believe that muslims are a
persecuted people in europe, or scandinavia? And that this gives them
the right to bully people around, repeal democracy, go jihad on
people's asses etc. ?
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Mohammed toons. |
03 Feb 2006 09:43:28 AM |
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In <i7t6u150nipu6f02he4l1dm2e6apn7faf6@4ax.com>, Rune B
<nobody@nowhere.net> wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:12:08 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
Say... does anyone besides maff really believe that muslims are a
persecuted people in europe, or scandinavia? And that this gives them the
right to bully people around, repeal democracy, go jihad on people's asses
etc. ?
Persecuted? Oh hell no. I could believe there's discrimination in some
quarters (I've read things that lead me to wonder how much France has
brought some of its problems on itself for instance). How much or how
widespread, I couldn't say.
Still, this is a case where I'm over with the "hard liners." While I doubt
most Muslims living in Europe are represented by the loons, my reply to
any of the violent radical theocratic twits is: "If you don't like secular
democracy, ***** and go live in one of your Islamic paradises."
I'll say this much. The radicals are truly, truly stupid. They seem
hell bent on turning Europe against their own people when Europe is one of
the few counterweights to the US in the matter.
Somebody needs to slap the stupid out of the radicals. Turn the *entire
West against the Arabs and Mecca's gonna glow in the dark...
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
Katrina aftermath pictures
http://www.nola.com/katrinaphotos/user/
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.
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| User: "Rune B" |
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| Title: Re: Mohammed toons. |
03 Feb 2006 10:09:12 PM |
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On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:43:28 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
Still, this is a case where I'm over with the "hard liners." While I doubt
most Muslims living in Europe are represented by the loons, my reply to
any of the violent radical theocratic twits is: "If you don't like secular
democracy, ***** and go live in one of your Islamic paradises."
Most muslims in europe are simply quiet. Quiet because they know first
hand how dangerous the islamic fascists are. That's why you'll find
thousands of muslims protesting against a cartoon, and 14 protesting
against the bombs in London.
Somebody needs to slap the stupid out of the radicals. Turn the *entire
West against the Arabs and Mecca's gonna glow in the dark...
See, what we need to do is put the EAC to work on some kind of bio
agent that only affects people with a large godcenter...
.
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: Mohammed toons. |
04 Feb 2006 10:28:15 AM |
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Rune B wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:43:28 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
Still, this is a case where I'm over with the "hard liners." While I doubt
most Muslims living in Europe are represented by the loons, my reply to
any of the violent radical theocratic twits is: "If you don't like secular
democracy, ***** and go live in one of your Islamic paradises."
Most muslims in europe are simply quiet. Quiet because they know first
hand how dangerous the islamic fascists are. That's why you'll find
thousands of muslims protesting against a cartoon, and 14 protesting
against the bombs in London.
Somebody needs to slap the stupid out of the radicals. Turn the *entire
West against the Arabs and Mecca's gonna glow in the dark...
See, what we need to do is put the EAC to work on some kind of bio
agent that only affects people with a large godcenter...
Of course, you can practice your goose stepping. Wars are very costly.
Have a couple of hundred trillion dollars in loose change. I doubt US
tax payers are going to pay for your adventures after Iraq.
.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Mohammed toons. |
03 Feb 2006 10:43:40 AM |
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On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:43:28 -0600, in alt.atheism , "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> in <UtGdnVX5qOe8537eRVn-pQ@megapath.net>
wrote:
In <i7t6u150nipu6f02he4l1dm2e6apn7faf6@4ax.com>, Rune B
<nobody@nowhere.net> wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:12:08 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
Say... does anyone besides maff really believe that muslims are a
persecuted people in europe, or scandinavia? And that this gives them the
right to bully people around, repeal democracy, go jihad on people's asses
etc. ?
Persecuted? Oh hell no. I could believe there's discrimination in some
quarters (I've read things that lead me to wonder how much France has
brought some of its problems on itself for instance). How much or how
widespread, I couldn't say.
Still, this is a case where I'm over with the "hard liners." While I doubt
most Muslims living in Europe are represented by the loons, my reply to
any of the violent radical theocratic twits is: "If you don't like secular
democracy, ***** and go live in one of your Islamic paradises."
I'll say this much. The radicals are truly, truly stupid. They seem
hell bent on turning Europe against their own people when Europe is one of
the few counterweights to the US in the matter.
Somebody needs to slap the stupid out of the radicals. Turn the *entire
West against the Arabs and Mecca's gonna glow in the dark...
It is not stupid, they don't want accommodation, they want
polarization and alienation. Getting along is not what they want, they
want to win.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Mohammed toons. |
03 Feb 2006 05:52:03 PM |
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In <i027u1d5paq2qdd1oc9cdvif6b9otke0rf@4ax.com>, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:43:28 -0600, in alt.atheism , "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> in <UtGdnVX5qOe8537eRVn-pQ@megapath.net>
wrote:
In <i7t6u150nipu6f02he4l1dm2e6apn7faf6@4ax.com>, Rune B
<nobody@nowhere.net> wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:12:08 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
Say... does anyone besides maff really believe that muslims are a
persecuted people in europe, or scandinavia? And that this gives them
the right to bully people around, repeal democracy, go jihad on
people's asses etc. ?
Persecuted? Oh hell no. I could believe there's discrimination in some
quarters (I've read things that lead me to wonder how much France has
brought some of its problems on itself for instance). How much or how
widespread, I couldn't say.
Still, this is a case where I'm over with the "hard liners." While I
doubt most Muslims living in Europe are represented by the loons, my
reply to any of the violent radical theocratic twits is: "If you don't
like secular democracy, ***** and go live in one of your Islamic
paradises."
I'll say this much. The radicals are truly, truly stupid. They seem hell
bent on turning Europe against their own people when Europe is one of the
few counterweights to the US in the matter.
Somebody needs to slap the stupid out of the radicals. Turn the *entire
West against the Arabs and Mecca's gonna glow in the dark...
It is not stupid, they don't want accommodation, they want polarization
and alienation. Getting along is not what they want, they want to win.
Well, they can't.
--
Mark K. Bilbo
--------------------------------------------------
Katrina aftermath pictures
http://www.nola.com/katrinaphotos/user/
"Everything New Orleans"
http://www.nola.com
.
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: Mohammed toons. |
03 Feb 2006 04:54:56 PM |
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Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:i027u1d5paq2qdd1oc9cdvif6b9otke0rf@4ax.com:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:43:28 -0600, in alt.atheism , "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> in <UtGdnVX5qOe8537eRVn-pQ@megapath.net>
wrote:
In <i7t6u150nipu6f02he4l1dm2e6apn7faf6@4ax.com>, Rune B
<nobody@nowhere.net> wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:12:08 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
Say... does anyone besides maff really believe that muslims are a
persecuted people in europe, or scandinavia? And that this gives
them the right to bully people around, repeal democracy, go jihad on
people's asses etc. ?
Persecuted? Oh hell no. I could believe there's discrimination in some
quarters (I've read things that lead me to wonder how much France has
brought some of its problems on itself for instance). How much or how
widespread, I couldn't say.
Still, this is a case where I'm over with the "hard liners." While I
doubt most Muslims living in Europe are represented by the loons, my
reply to any of the violent radical theocratic twits is: "If you don't
like secular democracy, ***** and go live in one of your Islamic
paradises."
I'll say this much. The radicals are truly, truly stupid. They seem
hell bent on turning Europe against their own people when Europe is
one of the few counterweights to the US in the matter.
Somebody needs to slap the stupid out of the radicals. Turn the
*entire West against the Arabs and Mecca's gonna glow in the dark...
It is not stupid, they don't want accommodation, they want
polarization and alienation. Getting along is not what they want, they
want to win.
Or at least that's what the leaders who are using the frenzied masses,
want...
Not altogether different than Bush using his self professed "appointment
by god" to help stir up the unthinkings masses in support of his holy
war...
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
|
|
|
| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: Mohammed toons. |
04 Feb 2006 05:21:35 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 22:54:56 GMT, Woden <woden@charter.net> wrote in
alt.atheism
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:i027u1d5paq2qdd1oc9cdvif6b9otke0rf@4ax.com:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:43:28 -0600, in alt.atheism , "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> in <UtGdnVX5qOe8537eRVn-pQ@megapath.net>
wrote:
In <i7t6u150nipu6f02he4l1dm2e6apn7faf6@4ax.com>, Rune B
<nobody@nowhere.net> wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:12:08 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
Say... does anyone besides maff really believe that muslims are a
persecuted people in europe, or scandinavia? And that this gives
them the right to bully people around, repeal democracy, go jihad on
people's asses etc. ?
Persecuted? Oh hell no. I could believe there's discrimination in some
quarters (I've read things that lead me to wonder how much France has
brought some of its problems on itself for instance). How much or how
widespread, I couldn't say.
Still, this is a case where I'm over with the "hard liners." While I
doubt most Muslims living in Europe are represented by the loons, my
reply to any of the violent radical theocratic twits is: "If you don't
like secular democracy, ***** and go live in one of your Islamic
paradises."
I'll say this much. The radicals are truly, truly stupid. They seem
hell bent on turning Europe against their own people when Europe is
one of the few counterweights to the US in the matter.
Somebody needs to slap the stupid out of the radicals. Turn the
*entire West against the Arabs and Mecca's gonna glow in the dark...
It is not stupid, they don't want accommodation, they want
polarization and alienation. Getting along is not what they want, they
want to win.
Or at least that's what the leaders who are using the frenzied masses,
want...
Not altogether different than Bush using his self professed "appointment
by god" to help stir up the unthinkings masses in support of his holy
war...
Exactly.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Mohammed toons. |
03 Feb 2006 08:13:04 PM |
|
|
Woden <woden@charter.net> wrote in
news:Xns975FB6CB4DDB6wodencharternet@69.28.186.121:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:i027u1d5paq2qdd1oc9cdvif6b9otke0rf@4ax.com:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:43:28 -0600, in alt.atheism , "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> in <UtGdnVX5qOe8537eRVn-pQ@megapath.net>
wrote:
In <i7t6u150nipu6f02he4l1dm2e6apn7faf6@4ax.com>, Rune B
<nobody@nowhere.net> wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:12:08 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
Say... does anyone besides maff really believe that muslims are a
persecuted people in europe, or scandinavia? And that this gives
them the right to bully people around, repeal democracy, go jihad
on people's asses etc. ?
Persecuted? Oh hell no. I could believe there's discrimination in
some quarters (I've read things that lead me to wonder how much
France has brought some of its problems on itself for instance). How
much or how widespread, I couldn't say.
Still, this is a case where I'm over with the "hard liners." While I
doubt most Muslims living in Europe are represented by the loons, my
reply to any of the violent radical theocratic twits is: "If you
don't like secular democracy, ***** and go live in one of your
Islamic paradises."
I'll say this much. The radicals are truly, truly stupid. They seem
hell bent on turning Europe against their own people when Europe is
one of the few counterweights to the US in the matter.
Somebody needs to slap the stupid out of the radicals. Turn the
*entire West against the Arabs and Mecca's gonna glow in the dark...
It is not stupid, they don't want accommodation, they want
polarization and alienation. Getting along is not what they want,
they want to win.
Or at least that's what the leaders who are using the frenzied masses,
want...
Not altogether different than Bush using his self professed
"appointment by god" to help stir up the unthinkings masses in support
of his holy war...
Like the ice cubes in my glass of tea are not altogether different from
the iceberg that sank the Titanic.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"Dems say Repubs imperil civil liberties. David Koresh and Elian
Gonzalez were not available for comment." - Anon.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Woden" |
|
| Title: Re: Mohammed toons. |
03 Feb 2006 10:08:42 PM |
|
|
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
news:Xns975FD73993559fstone69@66.150.105.47:
Woden <woden@charter.net> wrote in
news:Xns975FB6CB4DDB6wodencharternet@69.28.186.121:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:i027u1d5paq2qdd1oc9cdvif6b9otke0rf@4ax.com:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:43:28 -0600, in alt.atheism , "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> in <UtGdnVX5qOe8537eRVn-pQ@megapath.net>
wrote:
In <i7t6u150nipu6f02he4l1dm2e6apn7faf6@4ax.com>, Rune B
<nobody@nowhere.net> wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:12:08 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
Say... does anyone besides maff really believe that muslims are a
persecuted people in europe, or scandinavia? And that this gives
them the right to bully people around, repeal democracy, go jihad
on people's asses etc. ?
Persecuted? Oh hell no. I could believe there's discrimination in
some quarters (I've read things that lead me to wonder how much
France has brought some of its problems on itself for instance). How
much or how widespread, I couldn't say.
Still, this is a case where I'm over with the "hard liners." While I
doubt most Muslims living in Europe are represented by the loons, my
reply to any of the violent radical theocratic twits is: "If you
don't like secular democracy, ***** and go live in one of your
Islamic paradises."
I'll say this much. The radicals are truly, truly stupid. They seem
hell bent on turning Europe against their own people when Europe is
one of the few counterweights to the US in the matter.
Somebody needs to slap the stupid out of the radicals. Turn the
*entire West against the Arabs and Mecca's gonna glow in the dark...
It is not stupid, they don't want accommodation, they want
polarization and alienation. Getting along is not what they want,
they want to win.
Or at least that's what the leaders who are using the frenzied masses,
want...
Not altogether different than Bush using his self professed
"appointment by god" to help stir up the unthinkings masses in support
of his holy war...
Like the ice cubes in my glass of tea are not altogether different from
the iceberg that sank the Titanic.
Are you saying that Bush isn't using religion to manipulate the masses?
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Mohammed toons. |
04 Feb 2006 06:38:26 AM |
|
|
Woden <woden@charter.net> wrote in
news:Xns975FEBFF9F093wodencharternet@69.28.186.121:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
news:Xns975FD73993559fstone69@66.150.105.47:
Woden <woden@charter.net> wrote in
news:Xns975FB6CB4DDB6wodencharternet@69.28.186.121:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote
in news:i027u1d5paq2qdd1oc9cdvif6b9otke0rf@4ax.com:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:43:28 -0600, in alt.atheism , "Mark K.
Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> in
<UtGdnVX5qOe8537eRVn-pQ@megapath.net> wrote:
In <i7t6u150nipu6f02he4l1dm2e6apn7faf6@4ax.com>, Rune B
<nobody@nowhere.net> wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:12:08 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
Say... does anyone besides maff really believe that muslims are a
persecuted people in europe, or scandinavia? And that this gives
them the right to bully people around, repeal democracy, go jihad
on people's asses etc. ?
Persecuted? Oh hell no. I could believe there's discrimination in
some quarters (I've read things that lead me to wonder how much
France has brought some of its problems on itself for instance).
How much or how widespread, I couldn't say.
Still, this is a case where I'm over with the "hard liners." While
I doubt most Muslims living in Europe are represented by the loons,
my reply to any of the violent radical theocratic twits is: "If you
don't like secular democracy, ***** and go live in one of your
Islamic paradises."
I'll say this much. The radicals are truly, truly stupid. They seem
hell bent on turning Europe against their own people when Europe is
one of the few counterweights to the US in the matter.
Somebody needs to slap the stupid out of the radicals. Turn the
*entire West against the Arabs and Mecca's gonna glow in the
dark...
It is not stupid, they don't want accommodation, they want
polarization and alienation. Getting along is not what they want,
they want to win.
Or at least that's what the leaders who are using the frenzied
masses, want...
Not altogether different than Bush using his self professed
"appointment by god" to help stir up the unthinkings masses in
support of his holy war...
Like the ice cubes in my glass of tea are not altogether different
from the iceberg that sank the Titanic.
Are you saying that Bush isn't using religion to manipulate the
masses?
Are you saying that we should ban kitchen matches because of forest
fires?
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"Dems say Repubs imperil civil liberties. David Koresh and Elian
Gonzalez were not available for comment." - Anon.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Woden" |
|
| Title: Re: Mohammed toons. |
04 Feb 2006 06:41:19 AM |
|
|
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
news:Xns97604D198AA88fstone69@66.150.105.47:
Woden <woden@charter.net> wrote in
news:Xns975FEBFF9F093wodencharternet@69.28.186.121:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
news:Xns975FD73993559fstone69@66.150.105.47:
Woden <woden@charter.net> wrote in
news:Xns975FB6CB4DDB6wodencharternet@69.28.186.121:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote
in news:i027u1d5paq2qdd1oc9cdvif6b9otke0rf@4ax.com:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:43:28 -0600, in alt.atheism , "Mark K.
Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> in
<UtGdnVX5qOe8537eRVn-pQ@megapath.net> wrote:
In <i7t6u150nipu6f02he4l1dm2e6apn7faf6@4ax.com>, Rune B
<nobody@nowhere.net> wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:12:08 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
Say... does anyone besides maff really believe that muslims are a
persecuted people in europe, or scandinavia? And that this gives
them the right to bully people around, repeal democracy, go jihad
on people's asses etc. ?
Persecuted? Oh hell no. I could believe there's discrimination in
some quarters (I've read things that lead me to wonder how much
France has brought some of its problems on itself for instance).
How much or how widespread, I couldn't say.
Still, this is a case where I'm over with the "hard liners." While
I doubt most Muslims living in Europe are represented by the loons,
my reply to any of the violent radical theocratic twits is: "If you
don't like secular democracy, ***** and go live in one of your
Islamic paradises."
I'll say this much. The radicals are truly, truly stupid. They seem
hell bent on turning Europe against their own people when Europe is
one of the few counterweights to the US in the matter.
Somebody needs to slap the stupid out of the radicals. Turn the
*entire West against the Arabs and Mecca's gonna glow in the
dark...
It is not stupid, they don't want accommodation, they want
polarization and alienation. Getting along is not what they want,
they want to win.
Or at least that's what the leaders who are using the frenzied
masses, want...
Not altogether different than Bush using his self professed
"appointment by god" to help stir up the unthinkings masses in
support of his holy war...
Like the ice cubes in my glass of tea are not altogether different
from the iceberg that sank the Titanic.
Are you saying that Bush isn't using religion to manipulate the
masses?
Are you saying that we should ban kitchen matches because of forest
fires?
Did I say that or anything like that? I simply pointed out that the use
of their religion by the islamic priests/politicians to manipulate the
masses isn't really any different than what xian priests/politicians like
Bush or Robertson do. They all use it as a means of justifying killing
and war.
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Mohammed toons. |
04 Feb 2006 06:57:18 AM |
|
|
Woden <woden@charter.net> wrote in
news:Xns97604EB69EDB0wodencharternet@69.28.186.121:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
news:Xns97604D198AA88fstone69@66.150.105.47:
Woden <woden@charter.net> wrote in
news:Xns975FEBFF9F093wodencharternet@69.28.186.121:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
news:Xns975FD73993559fstone69@66.150.105.47:
Woden <woden@charter.net> wrote in
news:Xns975FB6CB4DDB6wodencharternet@69.28.186.121:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com>
wrote in news:i027u1d5paq2qdd1oc9cdvif6b9otke0rf@4ax.com:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:43:28 -0600, in alt.atheism , "Mark K.
Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> in
<UtGdnVX5qOe8537eRVn-pQ@megapath.net> wrote:
In <i7t6u150nipu6f02he4l1dm2e6apn7faf6@4ax.com>, Rune B
<nobody@nowhere.net> wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:12:08 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
Say... does anyone besides maff really believe that muslims are
a persecuted people in europe, or scandinavia? And that this
gives them the right to bully people around, repeal democracy,
go jihad on people's asses etc. ?
Persecuted? Oh hell no. I could believe there's discrimination in
some quarters (I've read things that lead me to wonder how much
France has brought some of its problems on itself for instance).
How much or how widespread, I couldn't say.
Still, this is a case where I'm over with the "hard liners."
While I doubt most Muslims living in Europe are represented by
the loons, my reply to any of the violent radical theocratic
twits is: "If you don't like secular democracy, ***** and go
live in one of your Islamic paradises."
I'll say this much. The radicals are truly, truly stupid. They
seem hell bent on turning Europe against their own people when
Europe is one of the few counterweights to the US in the matter.
Somebody needs to slap the stupid out of the radicals. Turn the
*entire West against the Arabs and Mecca's gonna glow in the
dark...
It is not stupid, they don't want accommodation, they want
polarization and alienation. Getting along is not what they want,
they want to win.
Or at least that's what the leaders who are using the frenzied
masses, want...
Not altogether different than Bush using his self professed
"appointment by god" to help stir up the unthinkings masses in
support of his holy war...
Like the ice cubes in my glass of tea are not altogether different
from the iceberg that sank the Titanic.
Are you saying that Bush isn't using religion to manipulate the
masses?
Are you saying that we should ban kitchen matches because of forest
fires?
Did I say that or anything like that?
Yes, you did.
I simply pointed out that the
use of their religion by the islamic priests/politicians to manipulate
the masses isn't really any different than what xian
priests/politicians like Bush or Robertson do.
I simply pointed out that it really is different by several orders of
magnitude.
They all use it as a
means of justifying killing and war.
No, they don't. Bush and Robertson aren't using religion to justify war.
That's sick.
Manipulate the masses? Yes, in minor ways, like any politician does,
even your favorite Democrats. Hence the ice cubes to Titanic analogy.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"Dems say Repubs imperil civil liberties. David Koresh and Elian
Gonzalez were not available for comment." - Anon.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
|
| Title: Re: Mohammed toons. |
04 Feb 2006 08:23:47 PM |
|
|
On 04 Feb 2006 12:57:18 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in <Xns9760504C72062fstone69@66.150.105.47>
wrote:
Woden <woden@charter.net> wrote in
news:Xns97604EB69EDB0wodencharternet@69.28.186.121:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
news:Xns97604D198AA88fstone69@66.150.105.47:
Woden <woden@charter.net> wrote in
news:Xns975FEBFF9F093wodencharternet@69.28.186.121:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
news:Xns975FD73993559fstone69@66.150.105.47:
Woden <woden@charter.net> wrote in
news:Xns975FB6CB4DDB6wodencharternet@69.28.186.121:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com>
wrote in news:i027u1d5paq2qdd1oc9cdvif6b9otke0rf@4ax.com:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:43:28 -0600, in alt.atheism , "Mark K.
Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> in
<UtGdnVX5qOe8537eRVn-pQ@megapath.net> wrote:
In <i7t6u150nipu6f02he4l1dm2e6apn7faf6@4ax.com>, Rune B
<nobody@nowhere.net> wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:12:08 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
Say... does anyone besides maff really believe that muslims are
a persecuted people in europe, or scandinavia? And that this
gives them the right to bully people around, repeal democracy,
go jihad on people's asses etc. ?
Persecuted? Oh hell no. I could believe there's discrimination in
some quarters (I've read things that lead me to wonder how much
France has brought some of its problems on itself for instance).
How much or how widespread, I couldn't say.
Still, this is a case where I'm over with the "hard liners."
While I doubt most Muslims living in Europe are represented by
the loons, my reply to any of the violent radical theocratic
twits is: "If you don't like secular democracy, ***** and go
live in one of your Islamic paradises."
I'll say this much. The radicals are truly, truly stupid. They
seem hell bent on turning Europe against their own people when
Europe is one of the few counterweights to the US in the matter.
Somebody needs to slap the stupid out of the radicals. Turn the
*entire West against the Arabs and Mecca's gonna glow in the
dark...
It is not stupid, they don't want accommodation, they want
polarization and alienation. Getting along is not what they want,
they want to win.
Or at least that's what the leaders who are using the frenzied
masses, want...
Not altogether different than Bush using his self professed
"appointment by god" to help stir up the unthinkings masses in
support of his holy war...
Like the ice cubes in my glass of tea are not altogether different
from the iceberg that sank the Titanic.
Are you saying that Bush isn't using religion to manipulate the
masses?
Are you saying that we should ban kitchen matches because of forest
fires?
Did I say that or anything like that?
Yes, you did.
What did he write that implied banning something?
I simply pointed out that the
use of their religion by the islamic priests/politicians to manipulate
the masses isn't really any different than what xian
priests/politicians like Bush or Robertson do.
I simply pointed out that it really is different by several orders of
magnitude.
I can understand you reluctance to admit that Shrub uses the religion
card whenever it is effective.
They all use it as a
means of justifying killing and war.
No, they don't. Bush and Robertson aren't using religion to justify war.
That's sick.
I agree it is sick. That did not seem to stop them from using it that
way.
Manipulate the masses? Yes, in minor ways, like any politician does,
even your favorite Democrats. Hence the ice cubes to Titanic analogy.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred Stone" |
|
| Title: Re: Mohammed toons. |
04 Feb 2006 09:55:01 PM |
|
|
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:5boau1hhjh2u3m59gf4gdjop3tc375cgt8@4ax.com:
On 04 Feb 2006 12:57:18 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in <Xns9760504C72062fstone69@66.150.105.47>
wrote:
Woden <woden@charter.net> wrote in
news:Xns97604EB69EDB0wodencharternet@69.28.186.121:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
news:Xns97604D198AA88fstone69@66.150.105.47:
Woden <woden@charter.net> wrote in
news:Xns975FEBFF9F093wodencharternet@69.28.186.121:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
news:Xns975FD73993559fstone69@66.150.105.47:
Woden <woden@charter.net> wrote in
news:Xns975FB6CB4DDB6wodencharternet@69.28.186.121:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com>
wrote in news:i027u1d5paq2qdd1oc9cdvif6b9otke0rf@4ax.com:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:43:28 -0600, in alt.atheism , "Mark K.
Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> in
<UtGdnVX5qOe8537eRVn-pQ@megapath.net> wrote:
In <i7t6u150nipu6f02he4l1dm2e6apn7faf6@4ax.com>, Rune B
<nobody@nowhere.net> wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:12:08 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
Say... does anyone besides maff really believe that muslims
are a persecuted people in europe, or scandinavia? And that
this gives them the right to bully people around, repeal
democracy, go jihad on people's asses etc. ?
Persecuted? Oh hell no. I could believe there's discrimination
in some quarters (I've read things that lead me to wonder how
much France has brought some of its problems on itself for
instance). How much or how widespread, I couldn't say.
Still, this is a case where I'm over with the "hard liners."
While I doubt most Muslims living in Europe are represented by
the loons, my reply to any of the violent radical theocratic
twits is: "If you don't like secular democracy, ***** and go
live in one of your Islamic paradises."
I'll say this much. The radicals are truly, truly stupid. They
seem hell bent on turning Europe against their own people when
Europe is one of the few counterweights to the US in the
matter.
Somebody needs to slap the stupid out of the radicals. Turn the
*entire West against the Arabs and Mecca's gonna glow in the
dark...
It is not stupid, they don't want accommodation, they want
polarization and alienation. Getting along is not what they
want, they want to win.
Or at least that's what the leaders who are using the frenzied
masses, want...
Not altogether different than Bush using his self professed
"appointment by god" to help stir up the unthinkings masses in
support of his holy war...
Like the ice cubes in my glass of tea are not altogether
different from the iceberg that sank the Titanic.
Are you saying that Bush isn't using religion to manipulate the
masses?
Are you saying that we should ban kitchen matches because of forest
fires?
Did I say that or anything like that?
Yes, you did.
What did he write that implied banning something?
My comment was about scale and proportion, Matt. You've already proved
many times that you lack any sense of proportion, so you aren't
qualified to make comments.
I simply pointed out that the
use of their religion by the islamic priests/politicians to
manipulate the masses isn't really any different than what xian
priests/politicians like Bush or Robertson do.
I simply pointed out that it really is different by several orders of
magnitude.
I can understand you reluctance to admit that Shrub uses the religion
card whenever it is effective.
Matt, I know you can't tell the difference between a firecracker and an
atomic bomb. You don't have to keep repeating the demonstration.
They all use it as a
means of justifying killing and war.
No, they don't. Bush and Robertson aren't using religion to justify
war. That's sick.
I agree it is sick. That did not seem to stop them from using it that
way.
Yes, Matt, you are sick. Somehow you managed to learn how to post to
USENET but you never managed to learn how to tell big things from little
ones.
Manipulate the masses? Yes, in minor ways, like any politician does,
even your favorite Democrats. Hence the ice cubes to Titanic analogy.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"Dems say Repubs imperil civil liberties. David Koresh and Elian
Gonzalez were not available for comment." - Anon.
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Mohammed toons. |
05 Feb 2006 10:56:01 AM |
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On 05 Feb 2006 03:55:01 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in <Xns9760E880C5C2Cfstone69@66.150.105.47>
wrote:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:5boau1hhjh2u3m59gf4gdjop3tc375cgt8@4ax.com:
On 04 Feb 2006 12:57:18 GMT, in alt.atheism , Fred Stone
<fstone69@earthling.com> in <Xns9760504C72062fstone69@66.150.105.47>
wrote:
Woden <woden@charter.net> wrote in
news:Xns97604EB69EDB0wodencharternet@69.28.186.121:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
news:Xns97604D198AA88fstone69@66.150.105.47:
Woden <woden@charter.net> wrote in
news:Xns975FEBFF9F093wodencharternet@69.28.186.121:
Fred Stone <fstone69@earthling.com> wrote in
news:Xns975FD73993559fstone69@66.150.105.47:
Woden <woden@charter.net> wrote in
news:Xns975FB6CB4DDB6wodencharternet@69.28.186.121:
Matt Silberstein <RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com>
wrote in news:i027u1d5paq2qdd1oc9cdvif6b9otke0rf@4ax.com:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:43:28 -0600, in alt.atheism , "Mark K.
Bilbo" <alt-atheism@org.webmaster> in
<UtGdnVX5qOe8537eRVn-pQ@megapath.net> wrote:
In <i7t6u150nipu6f02he4l1dm2e6apn7faf6@4ax.com>, Rune B
<nobody@nowhere.net> wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:12:08 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
Say... does anyone besides maff really believe that muslims
are a persecuted people in europe, or scandinavia? And that
this gives them the right to bully people around, repeal
democracy, go jihad on people's asses etc. ?
Persecuted? Oh hell no. I could believe there's discrimination
in some quarters (I've read things that lead me to wonder how
much France has brought some of its problems on itself for
instance). How much or how widespread, I couldn't say.
Still, this is a case where I'm over with the "hard liners."
While I doubt most Muslims living in Europe are represented by
the loons, my reply to any of the violent radical theocratic
twits is: "If you don't like secular democracy, ***** and go
live in one of your Islamic paradises."
I'll say this much. The radicals are truly, truly stupid. They
seem hell bent on turning Europe against their own people when
Europe is one of the few counterweights to the US in the
matter.
Somebody needs to slap the stupid out of the radicals. Turn the
*entire West against the Arabs and Mecca's gonna glow in the
dark...
It is not stupid, they don't want accommodation, they want
polarization and alienation. Getting along is not what they
want, they want to win.
Or at least that's what the leaders who are using the frenzied
masses, want...
Not altogether different than Bush using his self professed
"appointment by god" to help stir up the unthinkings masses in
support of his holy war...
Like the ice cubes in my glass of tea are not altogether
different from the iceberg that sank the Titanic.
Are you saying that Bush isn't using religion to manipulate the
masses?
Are you saying that we should ban kitchen matches because of forest
fires?
Did I say that or anything like that?
Yes, you did.
What did he write that implied banning something?
My comment was about scale and proportion, Matt.
No, you said he advocating banning.
You've already proved
many times that you lack any sense of proportion, so you aren't
qualified to make comments.
That is funny from you given that the discussion below precisely deals
with proportion. You won't look at the proportionate value vs cost of
the NSA taps. You are willing to give up basic liberties for an
*ineffective* intrusion.
I simply pointed out that the
use of their religion by the islamic priests/politicians to
manipulate the masses isn't really any different than what xian
priests/politicians like Bush or Robertson do.
I simply pointed out that it really is different by several orders of
magnitude.
I can understand you reluctance to admit that Shrub uses the religion
card whenever it is effective.
Matt, I know you can't tell the difference between a firecracker and an
atomic bomb. You don't have to keep repeating the demonstration.
Shrub does not have the same level of violence in his audience, but he
certainly makes significant use of religion as a tool to take and hold
and direct power.
[snip]
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Mohammed toons. |
04 Feb 2006 05:21:15 PM |
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On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 16:43:40 GMT, Matt Silberstein
<RemoveThisPrefixmatts2nospam@ix.netcom.com> wrote in alt.atheism
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:43:28 -0600, in alt.atheism , "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> in <UtGdnVX5qOe8537eRVn-pQ@megapath.net>
wrote:
In <i7t6u150nipu6f02he4l1dm2e6apn7faf6@4ax.com>, Rune B
<nobody@nowhere.net> wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:12:08 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
Say... does anyone besides maff really believe that muslims are a
persecuted people in europe, or scandinavia? And that this gives them the
right to bully people around, repeal democracy, go jihad on people's asses
etc. ?
Persecuted? Oh hell no. I could believe there's discrimination in some
quarters (I've read things that lead me to wonder how much France has
brought some of its problems on itself for instance). How much or how
widespread, I couldn't say.
Still, this is a case where I'm over with the "hard liners." While I doubt
most Muslims living in Europe are represented by the loons, my reply to
any of the violent radical theocratic twits is: "If you don't like secular
democracy, ***** and go live in one of your Islamic paradises."
I'll say this much. The radicals are truly, truly stupid. They seem
hell bent on turning Europe against their own people when Europe is one of
the few counterweights to the US in the matter.
Somebody needs to slap the stupid out of the radicals. Turn the *entire
West against the Arabs and Mecca's gonna glow in the dark...
It is not stupid, they don't want accommodation, they want
polarization and alienation. Getting along is not what they want, they
want to win.
The only thing they'll 'win' is the losing hand.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Mohammed toons. |
04 Feb 2006 05:20:23 PM |
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On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 16:23:01 +0100, Rune B <nobody@nowhere.net> wrote in
alt.atheism
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:12:08 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
Say... does anyone besides maff really believe that muslims are a
persecuted people in europe, or scandinavia? And that this gives them
the right to bully people around, repeal democracy, go jihad on
people's asses etc. ?
No. Maff's an arsehole.
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a cornucopia of splinters.
.
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: Mohammed toons. |
03 Feb 2006 11:10:09 PM |
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Rune B wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:12:08 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
Say... does anyone besides maff really believe that muslims are a
persecuted people in europe, or scandinavia? And that this gives them
the right to bully people around, repeal democracy, go jihad on
people's asses etc. ?
But discrimination still exists in Europe. Not all minorities are
Muslims. Why do you think there were riots in France? It had nothing to
do with Jihad or whatever that means.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Mohammed toons. |
04 Feb 2006 02:57:31 PM |
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maff schreef:
Rune B wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:12:08 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
Say... does anyone besides maff really believe that muslims are a
persecuted people in europe, or scandinavia? And that this gives them
the right to bully people around, repeal democracy, go jihad on
people's asses etc. ?
But discrimination still exists in Europe. Not all minorities are
Muslims. Why do you think there were riots in France? It had nothing to
do with Jihad or whatever that means.
Maff, I mostly appreciate your contribution to this NG
but on this subject I have some disagreement with you.
Despite the fact that there is discrimination of in Europe,
there realy is no excuse for the crazy reactions of "muslims" in this
case.
I have seen people carrying texts that call for killing
("Death to all who insult Islam" was one)
even one that called for exterminating Europeans.
(but I can't recall the exact text)
Indeed we Europeans have more reasing to be offended
in this case than muslims have.
So some people have been drawing pictures.
Nobody in Danmak has been asking people to go and hurt muslims.
But they are asking for death!
Kofi Anand is saying exuses are in order,
Well who is going to make exuses
for wanting to extermintate me?
Who?
Think about it
Peter van Velzen
February 2006
Amstelveen
The Netherlands
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| User: "Matt Silberstein" |
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| Title: Re: Mohammed toons. |
03 Feb 2006 09:45:31 AM |
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On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 09:12:08 -0600, in alt.atheism , "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> in <mKmdnUQ7WOFV737eRVn-vg@megapath.net>
wrote:
In <11u6nk5efk1r40d@corp.supernews.com>, wbarwell
<wbarwell@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
I am amazed at how mild these cartoons are despite the fuss. They are
rather wimpy.
I understand that certain folks distributed *other cartoons which did *not
originate with the publications in question for the purpose of whipping
people into a frenzy.
Like, you know, tactics Falwell and his sort use all the time.
One could do far worse by simply illustrating the evil life of Mohammed in
cartoon form, a list of atrocities and presumptions and stupidities found
in the Quran, early biographies of the non-prophet such as Ibn Ishaq, and
the Hadiths.
He was murdering scum, and a pedophile.
Not to defend the man but I do have to ask if the claim of pedophilia is
a case of "presentism" (as I've seen it called).
Whigism, named after the 19th C British political party.
You know the age of
consent in Euro-American cultures was as low as 10 in the not *too distant
past? Age of consent has risen over time as the human life span has
increased. We've "extended" childhood as it were.
But my question is whether it was normal in his culture at the time or not
to take a bride as young as the one (ones?) he's said to have.
Certainly it was.
Listing his criminal acts and illustrating them with cartoons would really
make these scum drool. Because such always hate truth.
Hating truth is a tenet of fundamentalism eh?
Ibn Ishaq's biography of Mohammed, written 120 years after his death and
drawing on a few erlier works is not online unfortunately.
The uglier parts of the Quran, illustrated would be something I'd like to
see,
I'm curious about the ones who say Mohammed never existed. Interesting
thought that...
I find it quite unlikely. There is plenty of contemporary evidence of
his existence.
--
Matt Silberstein
Do something today about the Darfur Genocide
http://www.beawitness.org
http://www.darfurgenocide.org
http://www.savedarfur.org
"Darfur: A Genocide We can Stop"
.
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| User: "thelasian" |
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| Title: Re: Mohammed toons. |
03 Feb 2006 07:05:06 PM |
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Cartoons of Mohammad with a bomb in his turban is "Press Freedom"
Cartoons of hook-nosed money grabbing Jews is "Anti-Semitism"....
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