Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay

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Topic:	Religions > Atheism
User:	"J Young"
Date:	20 Oct 2005 11:27:02 PM
Object:	Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay

This woman should claim that she was only exercising her "right to choose"
and have the ACLU represent her in court.
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/12955752.htm
Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay
SAN FRANCISCO - A mentally ill woman seen dropping her three sons into San
Francisco Bay from a downtown pier was charged with three counts of murder
Thursday while anguished relatives kept vigil and rescuers combed the chilly
water for the bodies of two of the victims.
Lashuan T. Harris, 23, of Oakland, was held in a hospital jail ward after
police saw her pushing an empty baby stroller away from the pier where a
witness reported spotting a woman drop the children off the end Wednesday
night.
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User: "Attila"
Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay	27 Oct 2005 10:02:36 PM

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 19:36:00 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<nhs2m1l76thektgie3ioij9vues5bcieh2@4ax.com> wrote:

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 18:47:43 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<b7m2m1lduijaceno4jotj62ba8n2no56k4@4ax.com>:

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:00:09 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<0uf2m1lut3gqviblrgi9m36da17u2kbr3e@4ax.com> wrote:

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:39:31 -0400, in alt.atheism
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
<8me2m1pee1md5ck53u71qbmevidsptgc1q@4ax.com>:

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 11:11:46 -0500, David Jensen
<david@dajensen-family.com> in alt.abortion with message-id
<31v1m1l0ra23hfvr2l0qegblkrp85764qh@4ax.com> wrote:

...

You and Joseph Stalin would have gotten along famously on this one.

No, I really don't think so. I do not advocate the use of the legal
system for a political end.

Sure you do. Executions instead of imprisonment are a political
decision, not a legal one.

So? It can also have a legal, a financial, and a safety basis.

Do states that have an active death penalty have fewer crimes than
states that do not have the death penalty?

They have a list of felons who are guaranteed never to commit another
crime.

Are countries with a death
penalty safer than those without one?

I have no idea.
.

User: "David Jensen"
Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay	22 Oct 2005 01:33:27 PM

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:18:24 +0100, in alt.atheism
Therion Ware <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in
<mg0ll11t1gk36b0k0qqmine5c50bublm07@4ax.com>:

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 13:01:24 -0500 in alt.atheism, David Jensen
(David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com>) said, directing the reply
to alt.atheism

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 12:48:24 -0500, in alt.atheism
Asmodeus <bondcATrightwingnationDOTcom> wrote in
<Xns96F78C7452FA3bondcrightwingnation@216.196.97.142>:

David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:n2tkl1pqts54ti6l0kgrdvrr9839p3o5e5@4ax.com:

Killed, murder includes a state of mind.

So you want to let her go, and to hell with the three murdered
children. Justice is justice. She deserves the death penalty,
no matter how many "disabilities" she has.

Justice is justice. You are not advocating justice. You cannot name a
single jurisdiction in any developed country that would allow the
execution of a person who is clearly not responsible for their actions.

Aside: Countries with the death penalty:

Afghanistan
Antigua and Barbuda
Bahamas
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Barbados
Belarus
Belize
Botswana
Burundi
Cameroon
Chad
China (People's Republic)
Comoros
Congo (Democratic Republic)
Cuba
Dominica
Egypt
Equatorial Guinea
Eritrea
Ethiopia
Gabon
Ghana
Guatemala
Guinea
Guyana
India
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Jamaica
Japan
Jordan
Kazakhstan
Korea, North
Korea, South
Kuwait
Kyrgyzstan
Laos
Lebanon
Lesotho
Liberia
Libya
Malawi
Malaysia
Mongolia
Nigeria
Oman
Pakistan
Palestinian Authority
Philippines
Qatar
Rwanda
St. Kitts and Nevis
St. Lucia
St. Vincent and the Grenadines
Saudi Arabia
Sierra Leone
Singapore
Somalia
Sudan
Swaziland
Syria
Taiwan
Tajikistan
Tanzania
Thailand
Trinidad and Tobago
Uganda
United Arab Emirates
United States
Uzbekistan
Vietnam
Yemen
Zambia
Zimbabwe

Quite the collection of backward countries that we are in. Now, I'm
curious if any of these countries refuse to accept mental disease or
defect as a defense.
.

User: "Uncle Buck"
Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay	22 Oct 2005 05:29:24 PM

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 13:33:27 -0500, David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com>
wrote:

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:18:24 +0100, in alt.atheism
Therion Ware <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in
<mg0ll11t1gk36b0k0qqmine5c50bublm07@4ax.com>:

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 13:01:24 -0500 in alt.atheism, David Jensen
(David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com>) said, directing the reply
to alt.atheism

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 12:48:24 -0500, in alt.atheism
Asmodeus <bondcATrightwingnationDOTcom> wrote in
<Xns96F78C7452FA3bondcrightwingnation@216.196.97.142>:

David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:n2tkl1pqts54ti6l0kgrdvrr9839p3o5e5@4ax.com:

Killed, murder includes a state of mind.

So you want to let her go, and to hell with the three murdered
children. Justice is justice. She deserves the death penalty,
no matter how many "disabilities" she has.

Quite the collection of backward countries that we are in. Now, I'm
curious if any of these countries refuse to accept mental disease or
defect as a defense.

Considering as some of those named allow a raped woman to be executed for
shaming her family, I'd have to say the chances are good. Not that we'd want to
be in with that crowd, mind you, just stating a fact. :-/
.

User: "Asmodeus bondcATrightwingnationDOTcom"
Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay	22 Oct 2005 01:07:26 PM

David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:8dvkl1ho1savjutp3ue6qc74b40l8hb5h8@4ax.com:

Justice is justice. You are not advocating justice. You cannot
name a single jurisdiction in any developed country that would
allow the execution of a person who is clearly not responsible for
their actions.

She is responsible. She stopped taking her meds. That makes
her 100% responsible -- and saying "it's not that simple"
will not change that.
--
/"\ ||
\ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN || Oderint Dum Metuant
X AGAINST HTML MAIL || VRWC Proud Life Member
/ \ AND POSTINGS || http://www.rightwingnation.com
.

User: "David Jensen"
Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay	22 Oct 2005 01:24:28 PM

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 13:07:26 -0500, in alt.atheism
Asmodeus <bondcATrightwingnationDOTcom> wrote in
<Xns96F78FAE94B4Fbondcrightwingnation@216.196.97.142>:

David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:8dvkl1ho1savjutp3ue6qc74b40l8hb5h8@4ax.com:

Justice is justice. You are not advocating justice. You cannot
name a single jurisdiction in any developed country that would
allow the execution of a person who is clearly not responsible for
their actions.

She is responsible. She stopped taking her meds. That makes
her 100% responsible -- and saying "it's not that simple"
will not change that.

That is up to a jury to decide. Your simplistic notions of 'justice'
will remain yours alone, thanks to civilization.
.

User: "Asmodeus bondcATrightwingnationDOTcom"
Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay	22 Oct 2005 01:48:57 PM

David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:1t0ll1h45mdr43ohhohctcf01eh7b471ui@4ax.com:

That is up to a jury to decide

Yes, it is. She deserves the death penalty.
--
/"\ ||
\ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN || Oderint Dum Metuant
X AGAINST HTML MAIL || VRWC Proud Life Member
/ \ AND POSTINGS || http://www.rightwingnation.com
.

User: "DCI"
Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay	22 Oct 2005 01:55:31 PM

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 13:48:57 -0500, Asmodeus
<bondcATrightwingnationDOTcom> wrote:

David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:1t0ll1h45mdr43ohhohctcf01eh7b471ui@4ax.com:

That is up to a jury to decide

Yes, it is. She deserves the death penalty.

A sad comment on the condition of the few mentally ill.
A determination of mental illness, such as schizophrenia, will
outweigh any desire on the part of lay opinions from the public to
extract a pound of retribution.
DCI
.

User: "David Jensen"
Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay	22 Oct 2005 03:08:19 PM

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 13:48:57 -0500, in alt.atheism
Asmodeus <bondcATrightwingnationDOTcom> wrote in
<Xns96F796B839913bondcrightwingnation@216.196.97.142>:

David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:1t0ll1h45mdr43ohhohctcf01eh7b471ui@4ax.com:

That is up to a jury to decide

Yes, it is. She deserves the death penalty.

You may repeat this as often as you like, but if she is found to be
incapable by mental disease or defect, she will not be given the death
penalty. That is the law in this country.
.

User: "Asmodeus bondcATrightwingnationDOTcom"
Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay	22 Oct 2005 03:10:21 PM

David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:pv6ll19khdbtq7bvoh48cn1brip7hu1oou@4ax.com:

You may repeat this as often as you like, but if she is found to
be incapable by mental disease or defect, she will not be given
the death penalty. That is the law in this country

Not if she chose to stop taking her meds.
--
/"\ ||
\ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN || Oderint Dum Metuant
X AGAINST HTML MAIL || VRWC Proud Life Member
/ \ AND POSTINGS || http://www.rightwingnation.com
.

User: "The Pervert"
Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay	23 Oct 2005 04:40:30 AM

"Asmodeus" <bondcATrightwingnationDOTcom> wrote in message
news:Xns96F7A4851D81Bbondcrightwingnation@216.196.97.142...

David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:pv6ll19khdbtq7bvoh48cn1brip7hu1oou@4ax.com:

You may repeat this as often as you like, but if she is found to
be incapable by mental disease or defect, she will not be given
the death penalty. That is the law in this country

Not if she chose to stop taking her meds.

Clearly you don't understand schizophrenia. That's not a flame, merely an
observation. It's a disease where those afflicted don't get that their
hallucinations *are* hallucinations. Their hallucinations are, to them,
natural and quite real.
With many diseases, when the symptoms go away, it is thought that the
disease is gone so there's no need to continue with any medication. That's
not so with schizophrenia. My guess (and it's only a guess) is that this
woman, in addition to being schizophrenic, is also not very bright. If
that's the case, how responsible (re taking meds she thinks are no longer
necessary) can you expect her to be? How responsible for her actions is
she? I don't know. My inclination is that she isn't, and should be
remanded to a mental hospital for the rest of her life. But I'm not a
lawyer and don't know the details of California law as regards to this
matter. It isn't like committing a crime while under the influence of drugs
or alcohol. Taking drugs or drinking are conscious acts and not excuses for
criminal behavior.
It really isn't about the kids. That's just emotional hyperbole.
Understandable, but still hype. Sadly, they are dead and will remain dead
regardless of what happens. Neither do they "cry out for justice." Again,
they're dead. They will remain dead regardless of what living people clamor
for.
At this point, it *is* about the mother and what is to be done with her.
.

User: "Douglas Berry"
Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay	22 Oct 2005 05:20:18 PM

What's so funny about peace, love and Asmodeus
<bondcATrightwingnationDOTcom> posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct
2005 12:48:24 -0500 iin alt.atheism?

David Jensen <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in
news:n2tkl1pqts54ti6l0kgrdvrr9839p3o5e5@4ax.com:

Killed, murder includes a state of mind.

So you want to let her go, and to hell with the three murdered
children. Justice is justice. She deserves the death penalty,
no matter how many "disabilities" she has.

It's not about her. It's about those three children. How is
that hard to understand?

Yes, it is about the kids, and also about metering out justice not
blind vengence.
*If* she was not in her right mind at the time of the killings,
putting her to death would be wrong. Jailing her for life would work
for me (and be cheaper for the state.)
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
.

User: "Asmodeus bondcATrightwingnationDOTcom"
Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay	22 Oct 2005 05:33:39 PM

Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in
news:2nell15n2d493ph1ncmn8s9hpofrtrr5f1@4ax.com:

*If* she was not in her right mind at the time of the killings,
putting her to death would be wrong.

Not if she chose to stop taking her meds.
--
/"\ ||
\ / ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN || Oderint Dum Metuant
X AGAINST HTML MAIL || VRWC Proud Life Member
/ \ AND POSTINGS || http://www.rightwingnation.com
.

User: ""
Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay	22 Oct 2005 05:35:43 PM

Asmodeus wrote:

Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in
news:2nell15n2d493ph1ncmn8s9hpofrtrr5f1@4ax.com:

*If* she was not in her right mind at the time of the killings,
putting her to death would be wrong.

Not if she chose to stop taking her meds.

People in her situation do not always make rational decisions. Meds or
no.
.

User: "osprey"
Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay	22 Oct 2005 05:54:10 PM

<arthurstone309@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1130020543.245277.149990@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Asmodeus wrote:

Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in
news:2nell15n2d493ph1ncmn8s9hpofrtrr5f1@4ax.com:

*If* she was not in her right mind at the time of the killings,
putting her to death would be wrong.

Not if she chose to stop taking her meds.

People in her situation do not always make rational decisions. Meds or
no.

The key question that will be asked..
Did she know the difference between right and wrong.
If they can establish that she knew the difference, she could face the death
penalty.
I have seen people, while studies have shown their IQ to be that of a
mentally handicapped person, receive the death penalty because it was proven
they knew right from wrong.
Delaware
Willie Sullivan, found guilty of first degree murder. He was sentenced to
death and went through the entire appeal process. He was found to know
right from wrong at the time he committed the murder and he was put to death
in 1999.
Someone said earlier that it is against the law to convict and put to death
a person who is mentally ill.
What you need to realize is, states will determine their own laws in regard
to the death penalty.
.

User: "Douglas Berry"
Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay	22 Oct 2005 07:53:29 PM

What's so funny about peace, love and Asmodeus
<bondcATrightwingnationDOTcom> posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct
2005 17:33:39 -0500 iin alt.atheism?

Douglas Berry <penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote in
news:2nell15n2d493ph1ncmn8s9hpofrtrr5f1@4ax.com:

*If* she was not in her right mind at the time of the killings,
putting her to death would be wrong.

Not if she chose to stop taking her meds.

I agree with you there, which is why I put in the big *if*. We don't
have anything close to all the facts yet.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
.

User: "Uncle Buck"
Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay	21 Oct 2005 05:53:24 PM

On 21 Oct 2005 15:15:10 -0700, "Robi" <robi_tola@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snip>

I suspect you have never had to deal with a real psychosis (I have). If
you haven't, I hope that you soon will.

AACKK! Now-now, Robi. you shouldn't go around wishing psychotic episodes on
people. Not even for their own good (I can't believe I just said that - seems
so out of place <G>). Your wishes alone wouldn't be enough to send them over
the edge, but regardless you're basically saying you hope the person becomes a
danger to himself or others (or knows someone who is such a danger) - and all
the risks of death and injury that such danger entails.
.

User: "655321"
Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay	21 Oct 2005 08:27:47 PM

On 2005-10-21 10:22:18 -0700,

said:

Hearing the idiot feminists whine about her "mental disease" should be
a lot of fun. Except for the dead kids.

Oh, don't qualify it. You are *glad* for the opportunity to sneer at
sick people, even at the cost of a couple whelps. If the woman is
sick, the issue should be heard.
--
GlennGlenn (655321) -- aa#825 --

"The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound.
Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book,
and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching."
-- Assyrian Tablet, Ca. 2800 BC
.

User: "B1ackwater"
Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay	22 Oct 2005 01:24:40 AM

Hey, The VOICES commanded her to do it. Not HER fault.
Arrest the Voices ....
.

User: "Paul Erickson"
Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay	23 Oct 2005 04:57:53 PM

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 06:24:40 GMT, B1ackwater <bw@baarrk.net> wrote:

Hey, The VOICES commanded her to do it. Not HER fault.
Arrest the Voices ....

It's not as simple as doing whatever the voices say. If it was that
straightforward then anybody who obeyed voices should be treated as if
they had obeyed any other authority.
People really don't know what psychosis is like...
.

User: "Douglas Berry"
Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay	22 Oct 2005 07:44:03 AM

What's so funny about peace, love and B1ackwater <bw@baarrk.net>
posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct 2005 06:24:40 GMT iin
alt.atheism?

Hey, The VOICES commanded her to do it. Not HER fault.
Arrest the Voices ....

She was on medication for schizophrenia, and stopped taking it. That
makes her responsible for her actions.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
.

User: "Pauline Barclay"
Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay	22 Oct 2005 01:17:23 PM

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 12:44:03 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:

What's so funny about peace, love and B1ackwater <bw@baarrk.net>
posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct 2005 06:24:40 GMT iin
alt.atheism?

Hey, The VOICES commanded her to do it. Not HER fault.
Arrest the Voices ....

She was on medication for schizophrenia, and stopped taking it. That
makes her responsible for her actions.

Why did she stop the medication and who was her psychiatrist/doctor
and where were they?
.

User: "Douglas Berry"
Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay	22 Oct 2005 05:18:46 PM

What's so funny about peace, love and Pauline Barclay
<pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct
2005 14:17:23 -0400 iin alt.atheism?

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 12:44:03 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:

What's so funny about peace, love and B1ackwater <bw@baarrk.net>
posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct 2005 06:24:40 GMT iin
alt.atheism?

Hey, The VOICES commanded her to do it. Not HER fault.
Arrest the Voices ....

She was on medication for schizophrenia, and stopped taking it. That
makes her responsible for her actions.

Why did she stop the medication and who was her psychiatrist/doctor
and where were they?

According to what I'm hearing in the local media (I live in the SFBA)
she stopped taking her meds because she assumed she was cured. This
happened after she found Jesus in a big way.
She didn't have a regular doctor. She was living on public assitance
and getting her meds through MediCal.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
.

User: "Mimi Cohen"
Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SFBay	22 Oct 2005 09:40:01 PM

Douglas Berry wrote:

What's so funny about peace, love and Pauline Barclay
<pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct
2005 14:17:23 -0400 iin alt.atheism?

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 12:44:03 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:

What's so funny about peace, love and B1ackwater <bw@baarrk.net>
posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct 2005 06:24:40 GMT iin
alt.atheism?

Hey, The VOICES commanded her to do it. Not HER fault.
Arrest the Voices ....

She was on medication for schizophrenia, and stopped taking it. That
makes her responsible for her actions.

Why did she stop the medication and who was her psychiatrist/doctor
and where were they?

According to what I'm hearing in the local media (I live in the SFBA)
she stopped taking her meds because she assumed she was cured. This
happened after she found Jesus in a big way.

That's very common among schizophrenics, bi polar also, they take the
pills, they get better they decide they're cured they stop taking the
pills. (best friend is bi-polar I can't remember how many times I've
called 911 because she was "cured by the pills"

She didn't have a regular doctor. She was living on public assitance
and getting her meds through MediCal.

They should have clinics to monitor these two groups to make sure they
don't become dangers to themselves or others. Yeah, I'm not holding my
breath with the governator holding the money purse either.
.

User: "Pauline Barclay"
Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay	23 Oct 2005 05:29:19 AM

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:40:01 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:

Douglas Berry wrote:

What's so funny about peace, love and Pauline Barclay
<pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct
2005 14:17:23 -0400 iin alt.atheism?

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 12:44:03 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:

What's so funny about peace, love and B1ackwater <bw@baarrk.net>
posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct 2005 06:24:40 GMT iin
alt.atheism?

Hey, The VOICES commanded her to do it. Not HER fault.
Arrest the Voices ....

She was on medication for schizophrenia, and stopped taking it. That
makes her responsible for her actions.

Why did she stop the medication and who was her psychiatrist/doctor
and where were they?

According to what I'm hearing in the local media (I live in the SFBA)
she stopped taking her meds because she assumed she was cured. This
happened after she found Jesus in a big way.

That's indeed part of the illness.

She didn't have a regular doctor. She was living on public assitance
and getting her meds through MediCal.

In that case, all people with mental health problems should be
monitored, not just the minority on public assistance.
.

User: "Mimi Cohen"
Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SFBay	23 Oct 2005 08:46:03 AM

Pauline Barclay wrote:

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:40:01 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:

Douglas Berry wrote:

What's so funny about peace, love and Pauline Barclay
<pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct
2005 14:17:23 -0400 iin alt.atheism?

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 12:44:03 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:

What's so funny about peace, love and B1ackwater <bw@baarrk.net>
posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct 2005 06:24:40 GMT iin
alt.atheism?

Hey, The VOICES commanded her to do it. Not HER fault.
Arrest the Voices ....

She was on medication for schizophrenia, and stopped taking it. That
makes her responsible for her actions.

Why did she stop the medication and who was her psychiatrist/doctor
and where were they?

According to what I'm hearing in the local media (I live in the SFBA)
she stopped taking her meds because she assumed she was cured. This
happened after she found Jesus in a big way.

That's indeed part of the illness.

She didn't have a regular doctor. She was living on public assitance
and getting her meds through MediCal.

In that case, all people with mental health problems should be
monitored, not just the minority on public assistance.

I was specifically referring to schizophrenics and bi-polar disorder,
whether they're on public assistance or not. I didn't limit my statement
other than the two groups of mental illness. You read something that
wasn't there, sorry.
.

User: "Pauline Barclay"
Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay	23 Oct 2005 09:26:05 AM

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 06:46:03 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:

Pauline Barclay wrote:

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:40:01 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:

Douglas Berry wrote:

What's so funny about peace, love and Pauline Barclay
<pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct
2005 14:17:23 -0400 iin alt.atheism?

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 12:44:03 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:

What's so funny about peace, love and B1ackwater <bw@baarrk.net>
posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct 2005 06:24:40 GMT iin
alt.atheism?

Hey, The VOICES commanded her to do it. Not HER fault.
Arrest the Voices ....

She was on medication for schizophrenia, and stopped taking it. That
makes her responsible for her actions.

Why did she stop the medication and who was her psychiatrist/doctor
and where were they?

According to what I'm hearing in the local media (I live in the SFBA)
she stopped taking her meds because she assumed she was cured. This
happened after she found Jesus in a big way.

That's indeed part of the illness.

She didn't have a regular doctor. She was living on public assitance
and getting her meds through MediCal.

In that case, all people with mental health problems should be
monitored, not just the minority on public assistance.

I did read something that was there, but it appeared as though you
were referring to people on public assistance and on mediCal with
mental illness. I'm sorry for the confusion.
.

User: "Mimi Cohen"
Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SFBay	23 Oct 2005 09:43:13 AM

Pauline Barclay wrote:

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 06:46:03 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:

Pauline Barclay wrote:

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 19:40:01 -0700, Mimi Cohen <imnot@cox.net> wrote:

Douglas Berry wrote:

What's so funny about peace, love and Pauline Barclay
<pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct
2005 14:17:23 -0400 iin alt.atheism?

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 12:44:03 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:

What's so funny about peace, love and B1ackwater <bw@baarrk.net>
posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct 2005 06:24:40 GMT iin
alt.atheism?

Hey, The VOICES commanded her to do it. Not HER fault.
Arrest the Voices ....

She was on medication for schizophrenia, and stopped taking it. That
makes her responsible for her actions.

Why did she stop the medication and who was her psychiatrist/doctor
and where were they?

According to what I'm hearing in the local media (I live in the SFBA)
she stopped taking her meds because she assumed she was cured. This
happened after she found Jesus in a big way.

That's indeed part of the illness.

She didn't have a regular doctor. She was living on public assitance
and getting her meds through MediCal.

In that case, all people with mental health problems should be
monitored, not just the minority on public assistance.

I did read something that was there, but it appeared as though you
were referring to people on public assistance and on mediCal with
mental illness. I'm sorry for the confusion.

It's easy to do in email or posts to usenet and other forums :)
I would never begrudge someone down on their luck and sick at the same
time. California has a very high population of military personnel
stationed in various areas of the state carrying a large part of the
local economies, with that in mind we have an astounding number of
homeless mentally ill veterans wandering our streets. It's appalling
that these people who put their lives on the line for us are "thanked"
by untreated illness, no reasonable priced housing they can afford, etc.
No not all street people are homeless mentally ill vets, some are
parents with school age children. This state simply isn't meeting the
needs of her residents and seeing how California has something no other
state has (wold's fifth largest economy) there's no excuse for it other
than the Greedy Old Phucks motto: "I got mine, ***** yours"
.

User: "Pauline Barclay"
Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SF Bay	22 Oct 2005 06:40:37 PM

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 22:18:46 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:

What's so funny about peace, love and Pauline Barclay
<pauline.barclay@blazemail.com> posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct
2005 14:17:23 -0400 iin alt.atheism?

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 12:44:03 GMT, Douglas Berry
<penguin_boy@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> wrote:

What's so funny about peace, love and B1ackwater <bw@baarrk.net>
posting the following on Sat, 22 Oct 2005 06:24:40 GMT iin
alt.atheism?

Hey, The VOICES commanded her to do it. Not HER fault.
Arrest the Voices ....

She was on medication for schizophrenia, and stopped taking it. That
makes her responsible for her actions.

Why did she stop the medication and who was her psychiatrist/doctor
and where were they?

According to what I'm hearing in the local media (I live in the SFBA)
she stopped taking her meds because she assumed she was cured. This
happened after she found Jesus in a big way.

Oh, no.

She didn't have a regular doctor. She was living on public assitance
and getting her meds through MediCal.

No therapy and no regular doctor yet she's taking meds? Nobody was
assigned to monitor her, at least?
.

User: "Mimi Cohen"
Title: Re: Mom charged with murder after allegedly throwing kids into SFBay	22 Oct 2005 09:41:43 PM