| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Surfer" |
| Date: |
12 Feb 2007 08:57:17 AM |
| Object: |
Monotheism without Scripture |
It seems to me that scripture causes a lot of trouble. Many people who
regard scripture as "The Word of God" seem to end up worshiping an
imaginary bigot.
However I don't have a problem with the idea that we were created by
an infinite Creator. It seems beneficial to me to love this Creator
and doing so may help us love what it has created and hence help us
live in harmony with the world.
So I feel it could be beneficial to promote a new religion: namely
"Monotheism without Scripture".
It could be based on the following ideas.
1) Our existence is proof of an infinite Creator.
2) An infinite Creator does not need us to do anything, but if we love
our Creator, we will feel better for it.
3) Loving our Creator will also help us love what it has created and
help us live in harmony in the world.
Regards,
Surfer
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| User: "Greywolf" |
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| Title: Re: Monotheism without Scripture |
12 Feb 2007 10:32:46 AM |
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"Surfer" <surfer@no.spam.net> wrote in message
news:hiv0t2pg9qq0054hmhavk5drl176hblm10@4ax.com...
It seems to me that scripture causes a lot of trouble. Many people who
regard scripture as "The Word of God" seem to end up worshiping an
imaginary bigot.
However I don't have a problem with the idea that we were created by
an infinite Creator. It seems beneficial to me to love this Creator
and doing so may help us love what it has created and hence help us
live in harmony with the world.
So I feel it could be beneficial to promote a new religion: namely
"Monotheism without Scripture".
It could be based on the following ideas.
1) Our existence is proof of an infinite Creator.
2) An infinite Creator does not need us to do anything, but if we love
our Creator, we will feel better for it.
3) Loving our Creator will also help us love what it has created and
help us live in harmony in the world.
Regards,
Surfer
And the 'spokesperson(s)' for this imaginary 'Creator' who would give the
'divine' order(s) to kill the 'unbelievers' would be ... who?
Greywolf
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| User: "Rob Brown" |
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| Title: Re: Monotheism without Scripture |
12 Feb 2007 11:47:16 AM |
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"Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com> wrote in message
news:12t15lj29c3kt55@corp.supernews.com...
"Surfer" <surfer@no.spam.net> wrote in message
news:hiv0t2pg9qq0054hmhavk5drl176hblm10@4ax.com...
It seems to me that scripture causes a lot of trouble. Many people who
regard scripture as "The Word of God" seem to end up worshiping an
imaginary bigot.
However I don't have a problem with the idea that we were created by
an infinite Creator. It seems beneficial to me to love this Creator
and doing so may help us love what it has created and hence help us
live in harmony with the world.
So I feel it could be beneficial to promote a new religion: namely
"Monotheism without Scripture".
It could be based on the following ideas.
1) Our existence is proof of an infinite Creator.
2) An infinite Creator does not need us to do anything, but if we love
our Creator, we will feel better for it.
3) Loving our Creator will also help us love what it has created and
help us live in harmony in the world.
Regards,
Surfer
And the 'spokesperson(s)' for this imaginary 'Creator' who would give the
'divine' order(s) to kill the 'unbelievers' would be ... who?
Greywolf
Ted Haggard? Pat Robertson? Jim Baker? Jim Jones? Tomas de Torquamada?
Jerry Falwell? Mullah Omar? Osama Ben Laden? How am I doing so far?
Rob Brown
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| User: "Surfer" |
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| Title: Re: Monotheism without Scripture |
12 Feb 2007 04:28:29 PM |
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On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 10:32:46 -0600, "Greywolf" <greywolf@cybrzn.com>
wrote:
"Surfer" <surfer@no.spam.net> wrote in message
news:hiv0t2pg9qq0054hmhavk5drl176hblm10@4ax.com...
It seems to me that scripture causes a lot of trouble. Many people who
regard scripture as "The Word of God" seem to end up worshiping an
imaginary bigot.
However I don't have a problem with the idea that we were created by
an infinite Creator. It seems beneficial to me to love this Creator
and doing so may help us love what it has created and hence help us
live in harmony with the world.
So I feel it could be beneficial to promote a new religion: namely
"Monotheism without Scripture".
It could be based on the following ideas.
1) Our existence is proof of an infinite Creator.
2) An infinite Creator does not need us to do anything, but if we love
our Creator, we will feel better for it.
3) Loving our Creator will also help us love what it has created and
help us live in harmony in the world.
Regards,
Surfer
And the 'spokesperson(s)' for this imaginary 'Creator' who would give the
'divine' order(s) to kill the 'unbelievers' would be ... who?
The idea that an infinite creator would get upset if humans didn't
believe in it, is ridiculous.
Scripture makes such ridiculous claims. That is why I said "Many
people who regard scripture as "The Word of God" seem to end up
worshiping an imaginary bigot."
My purpose in suggesting "Monotheism without Scripture" is to provide
an alternative way to save people from scripture.
Promoting Atheism is one way, but many people continue to want to
believe in a God.
Promoting Pantheism is another, but Pantheism equates God with "The
Totality of Being" or "The All", which may be too abstract for some
people.
I think "Monotheism without Scripture" is a conceptually simpler idea.
It leaves the nature of the Creator open to imagination.
Eg it might be thought of as warm and comforting, cold and beautiful,
physical realty or deeply mysterious, depending on ones preferences.
The important thing is freedom from dogma, superstition and bigotry.
Regards,
Surfer
term "creator" has acquired negative baggage from traditional
religions.
Why would an infinite Creator even care if anyone believed in it or
not?
here is no scripture,
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Monotheism without Scripture |
13 Feb 2007 08:28:34 AM |
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"Surfer" <surfer@no.spam.net> wrote in message
snip
Promoting Atheism is one way, but many people continue to want to
believe in a God.
Yeah, well, that's their problem.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Monotheism without Scripture |
12 Feb 2007 09:50:09 PM |
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On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 08:58:29 +1030, Surfer <surfer@no.spam.net> wrote:
- Refer: <lhn1t2dtg51eahpplt9kmrljrpjgqmt8su@4ax.com>
:
Promoting Atheism is one way, but many people continue to want to
believe in a God.
So, just because some people want there to be a "god", (whatever the
***** that is), then you "invent" one, and it becomes reality?
How long have been doing crack?
:
--
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| User: "Rob Brown" |
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| Title: Re: Monotheism without Scripture |
12 Feb 2007 11:52:45 AM |
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"Surfer" <surfer@no.spam.net> wrote in message
news:hiv0t2pg9qq0054hmhavk5drl176hblm10@4ax.com...
It seems to me that scripture causes a lot of trouble. Many people who
regard scripture as "The Word of God" seem to end up worshiping an
imaginary bigot.
However I don't have a problem with the idea that we were created by
an infinite Creator. It seems beneficial to me to love this Creator
and doing so may help us love what it has created and hence help us
live in harmony with the world.
So I feel it could be beneficial to promote a new religion: namely
"Monotheism without Scripture".
It could be based on the following ideas.
1) Our existence is proof of an infinite Creator.
2) An infinite Creator does not need us to do anything, but if we love
our Creator, we will feel better for it.
3) Loving our Creator will also help us love what it has created and
help us live in harmony in the world.
Regards,
Surfer
What I like about it is that you make no pretense that you have any reason
for the tenets of your religion. You as much as admit that you're just
making it up. I like the component of honesty. Now, if the other religions
would be as honest we would be making some progress.
Rob Brown
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| User: "Jon Erlandson" |
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| Title: Re: Monotheism without Scripture |
14 Feb 2007 02:51:16 AM |
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"Surfer" <surfer@no.spam.net> wrote in message
news:hiv0t2pg9qq0054hmhavk5drl176hblm10@4ax.com...
It seems to me that scripture causes a lot of trouble. Many people who
regard scripture as "The Word of God" seem to end up worshiping an
imaginary bigot.
People are people:)
However I don't have a problem with the idea that we were created by
an infinite Creator. It seems beneficial to me to love this Creator
and doing so may help us love what it has created and hence help us
live in harmony with the world.
Many people have started faiths based upon what they think they understand
about themselves and the world. This isn't something new.
So I feel it could be beneficial to promote a new religion: namely
"Monotheism without Scripture".
Scripture is just whatever writing you define your faith by. The Qu'ran has
scripture, the Hindus have scripture, Christians have scripture etc...
It could be based on the following ideas.
1) Our existence is proof of an infinite Creator.
2) An infinite Creator does not need us to do anything, but if we love
our Creator, we will feel better for it.
3) Loving our Creator will also help us love what it has created and
help us live in harmony in the world.
Well, you've got scripture now. Guess you can't use it:)
Regards,
Surfer
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| User: "Michelle Malkin" |
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| Title: Re: Monotheism without Scripture |
14 Feb 2007 08:06:01 PM |
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"Jon Erlandson" <jerlands@NOSPAM_sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:j4AAh.6018$o61.1690@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...
"Surfer" <surfer@no.spam.net> wrote in message
news:hiv0t2pg9qq0054hmhavk5drl176hblm10@4ax.com...
It seems to me that scripture causes a lot of trouble. Many people who
regard scripture as "The Word of God" seem to end up worshiping an
imaginary bigot.
People are people:)
However I don't have a problem with the idea that we were created by
an infinite Creator. It seems beneficial to me to love this Creator
and doing so may help us love what it has created and hence help us
live in harmony with the world.
Many people have started faiths based upon what they think they understand
about themselves and the world. This isn't something new.
So I feel it could be beneficial to promote a new religion: namely
"Monotheism without Scripture".
Scripture is just whatever writing you define your faith by. The Qu'ran
has scripture, the Hindus have scripture, Christians have scripture etc...
It could be based on the following ideas.
1) Our existence is proof of an infinite Creator.
No, it isn't. Our existence is only proof of our
existence.
2) An infinite Creator does not need us to do anything, but if we love
our Creator, we will feel better for it.
Why?
3) Loving our Creator will also help us love what it has created and
help us live in harmony in the world.
That makes no sense at all.
Well, you've got scripture now. Guess you can't use it:)
He needs something. His total lack of originality is
really sad.
--
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
Michelle Malkin (Mickey) aa list#1
BAAWA Knight & Bible Thumper Thumper
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
When fascism comes to America, it will be
wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross -
Sinclair Lewis
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| User: "Bill M" |
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| Title: Re: Monotheism without Scripture |
15 Feb 2007 04:12:08 PM |
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"Michelle Malkin" <hypatiab7@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:XK-dnSD1lN1hIk7YnZ2dnUVZ_vCknZ2d@comcast.com...
"Jon Erlandson" <jerlands@NOSPAM_sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:j4AAh.6018$o61.1690@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...
"Surfer" <surfer@no.spam.net> wrote in message
news:hiv0t2pg9qq0054hmhavk5drl176hblm10@4ax.com...
It seems to me that scripture causes a lot of trouble. Many people who
regard scripture as "The Word of God" seem to end up worshiping an
imaginary bigot.
People are people:)
However I don't have a problem with the idea that we were created by
an infinite Creator. It seems beneficial to me to love this Creator
and doing so may help us love what it has created and hence help us
live in harmony with the world.
Many people have started faiths based upon what they think they
understand about themselves and the world. This isn't something new.
So I feel it could be beneficial to promote a new religion: namely
"Monotheism without Scripture".
Scripture is just whatever writing you define your faith by. The Qu'ran
has scripture, the Hindus have scripture, Christians have scripture
etc...
It could be based on the following ideas.
1) Our existence is proof of an infinite Creator.
No, it isn't. Our existence is only proof of our
existence.
2) An infinite Creator does not need us to do anything, but if we love
our Creator, we will feel better for it.
Why?
3) Loving our Creator will also help us love what it has created and
help us live in harmony in the world.
That makes no sense at all.
Well, you've got scripture now. Guess you can't use it:)
He needs something. His total lack of originality is
really sad.
--
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
Michelle Malkin (Mickey) aa list#1
Unfortunately many religious believers are on the lunatic fringe and do not
understand
logic or facts. They are products of their own mental delusions!
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| User: "J Forbes" |
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| Title: Re: Monotheism without Scripture |
12 Feb 2007 09:02:07 AM |
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-snip crossposting-
Surfer wrote:
So I feel it could be beneficial to promote a new religion: namely
"Monotheism without Scripture".
It could be based on the following ideas.
1) Our existence is proof of an infinite Creator.
2) An infinite Creator does not need us to do anything, but if we love
our Creator, we will feel better for it.
3) Loving our Creator will also help us love what it has created and
help us live in harmony in the world.
So you start with a false assertion, and go from there....yeah, that's
a really great idea.
How about instead we just learn to accept the fact that we're here
most likely as a result of the way things work, rather than the intent
of some mysterious skypixie...and then learn to love life itself....
Jim
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| User: "thomas p." |
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| Title: Re: Monotheism without Scripture |
14 Feb 2007 11:42:56 AM |
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On 12 Feb., 15:57, Surfer <sur...@no.spam.net> wrote:
It seems to me that scripture causes a lot of trouble. Many people who
regard scripture as "The Word of God" seem to end up worshiping an
imaginary bigot.
However I don't have a problem with the idea that we were created by
an infinite Creator. It seems beneficial to me to love this Creator
Even if it existed, why is it lovable?
and doing so may help us love what it has created and hence help us
live in harmony with the world.
So I feel it could be beneficial to promote a new religion: namely
"Monotheism without Scripture".
It could be based on the following ideas.
1) Our existence is proof of an infinite Creator.
Nonsense.
2) An infinite Creator does not need us to do anything, but if we love
our Creator, we will feel better for it.
How do you love something that you know nothing about?
3) Loving our Creator will also help us love what it has created and
help us live in harmony in the world.
Babble.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Monotheism without Scripture |
12 Feb 2007 04:18:45 PM |
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On Feb 12, 7:57 am, Surfer <sur...@no.spam.net> wrote:
It seems to me that scripture causes a lot of trouble. Many people who
regard scripture as "The Word of God" seem to end up worshiping an
imaginary bigot.
However I don't have a problem with the idea that we were created by
an infinite Creator. It seems beneficial to me to love this Creator
and doing so may help us love what it has created and hence help us
live in harmony with the world.
So I feel it could be beneficial to promote a new religion: namely
"Monotheism without Scripture".
It could be based on the following ideas.
1) Our existence is proof of an infinite Creator.
2) An infinite Creator does not need us to do anything, but if we love
our Creator, we will feel better for it.
3) Loving our Creator will also help us love what it has created and
help us live in harmony in the world.
Regards,
Surfer
Naaah. First of all, you have to discern the difference between a
creator and a non-creator. We all create something, but implying that
it's illogical to say we were not created but there's some Divine
Creator that was not created creates a contradiction. Second of all,
you have to explain why the belief in any creator has made our history
more harmonious in any given way. In any case, you are abandoning
standards for belief which allows people to justify things that would
never be justifiable to a sane person.
---
Atheism vs. Christianity and Other Debate
http://fgsfds.org/debate/index.php
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Monotheism without Scripture |
09 Mar 2007 03:20:50 PM |
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On Feb 12, 9:57 am, Surfer <sur...@no.spam.net> wrote:
It seems to me that scripture causes a lot of trouble. Many people who
regard scripture as "The Word of God" seem to end up worshiping an
imaginary bigot.
However I don't have a problem with the idea that we were created by
an infinite Creator. It seems beneficial to me to love this Creator
and doing so may help us love what it has created and hence help us
live in harmony with the world.
So I feel it could be beneficial to promote a new religion: namely
"Monotheism without Scripture".
It could be based on the following ideas.
1) Our existence is proof of an infinite Creator.
2) An infinite Creator does not need us to do anything, but if we love
our Creator, we will feel better for it.
3) Loving our Creator will also help us love what it has created and
help us live in harmony in the world.
You get it wrong... Those people from the Sola Scriptura crowd
tend to worship the word instead of living by.
Look how they keep paraphrasing it out of context during their
sevice... Sometime they look stupid and all the time they
seem at a loss.
The book is too damn good, but Martin Luther and his Sola
Scriptura NONSENSE turned it into a very dangerous thing
Regards,
Surfer
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Monotheism without Scripture |
12 Feb 2007 04:51:42 PM |
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On Feb 12, 9:57 am, Surfer <sur...@no.spam.net> wrote:
It seems to me that scripture causes a lot of trouble. Many people who
regard scripture as "The Word of God" seem to end up worshiping an
imaginary bigot.
And people who do not read scripture and believe in gods end up
worshiping an imaginary something else.
-Panama Floyd, Atlanta
aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
EAC Martian Commander
Plonked by Kadaitcha Man Sept 06
"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain
Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones:
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: Monotheism without Scripture |
24 Feb 2007 03:28:20 PM |
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On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 01:27:17 +1030, Surfer <surfer@no.spam.net> wrote in
alt.atheism
It seems to me that scripture causes a lot of trouble. Many people who
regard scripture as "The Word of God" seem to end up worshiping an
imaginary bigot.
Mental toddlers. Yourself among them.
[]
--
Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to
shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate
at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll
be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters.
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| User: "Padraic Brown" |
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| Title: Re: Monotheism without Scripture |
12 Feb 2007 08:49:31 PM |
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On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 01:27:17 +1030, Surfer <surfer@no.spam.net> wrote:
It seems to me that scripture causes a lot of trouble. Many people who
regard scripture as "The Word of God" seem to end up worshiping an
imaginary bigot.
However I don't have a problem with the idea that we were created by
an infinite Creator. It seems beneficial to me to love this Creator
and doing so may help us love what it has created and hence help us
live in harmony with the world.
So I feel it could be beneficial to promote a new religion: namely
"Monotheism without Scripture".
It could be based on the following ideas.
1) Our existence is proof of an infinite Creator.
2) An infinite Creator does not need us to do anything, but if we love
our Creator, we will feel better for it.
3) Loving our Creator will also help us love what it has created and
help us live in harmony in the world.
I think you're on to something quite interesting...
By in large, you've just reinvented Deism. Deists hold that Creation
itself is the best revelation of God -- after all, it is God's own
handiwork. You mentioned later in the thread that scriptures land
people in trouble. Deism holds that scriptures are NOT God's revealed
word -- they are works of people. Sometimes there is good in them and
sometimes great evil.
You might want to take a look at it, and see how compatible your ideas
are with those of the great American Deists.
Cheers,
Padraic
Regards,
Surfer
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "thomas p." |
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| Title: Re: Monotheism without Scripture |
14 Feb 2007 11:51:00 AM |
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On 13 Feb., 03:49, Padraic Brown <elemti...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 01:27:17 +1030, Surfer <sur...@no.spam.net> wrote:
It seems to me that scripture causes a lot of trouble. Many people who
regard scripture as "The Word of God" seem to end up worshiping an
imaginary bigot.
However I don't have a problem with the idea that we were created by
an infinite Creator. It seems beneficial to me to love this Creator
and doing so may help us love what it has created and hence help us
live in harmony with the world.
So I feel it could be beneficial to promote a new religion: namely
"Monotheism without Scripture".
It could be based on the following ideas.
1) Our existence is proof of an infinite Creator.
2) An infinite Creator does not need us to do anything, but if we love
our Creator, we will feel better for it.
3) Loving our Creator will also help us love what it has created and
help us live in harmony in the world.
I think you're on to something quite interesting...
By in large, you've just reinvented Deism. Deists hold that Creation
itself is the best revelation of God -- after all, it is God's own
handiwork.
That is assuming your conclusion not the revelation of anything.
You mentioned later in the thread that scriptures land
people in trouble. Deism holds that scriptures are NOT God's revealed
word -- they are works of people. Sometimes there is good in them and
sometimes great evil.
You might want to take a look at it, and see how compatible your ideas
are with those of the great American Deists.
Or he could consider that there is no reason to believe any of it.
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| User: "Surfer" |
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| Title: Re: Monotheism without Scripture |
13 Feb 2007 07:54:49 AM |
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On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 21:49:31 -0500, Padraic Brown
<elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 01:27:17 +1030, Surfer <surfer@no.spam.net> wrote:
It seems to me that scripture causes a lot of trouble. Many people who
regard scripture as "The Word of God" seem to end up worshiping an
imaginary bigot.
However I don't have a problem with the idea that we were created by
an infinite Creator. It seems beneficial to me to love this Creator
and doing so may help us love what it has created and hence help us
live in harmony with the world.
So I feel it could be beneficial to promote a new religion: namely
"Monotheism without Scripture".
It could be based on the following ideas.
1) Our existence is proof of an infinite Creator.
2) An infinite Creator does not need us to do anything, but if we love
our Creator, we will feel better for it.
3) Loving our Creator will also help us love what it has created and
help us live in harmony in the world.
I think you're on to something quite interesting...
By in large, you've just reinvented Deism. Deists hold that Creation
itself is the best revelation of God -- after all, it is God's own
handiwork. You mentioned later in the thread that scriptures land
people in trouble. Deism holds that scriptures are NOT God's revealed
word -- they are works of people. Sometimes there is good in them and
sometimes great evil.
You might want to take a look at it, and see how compatible your ideas
are with those of the great American Deists.
Thanks for that suggestion.
The Deist position sounds thoroughly liberal.
I think all liberal religions can peacefully coexist, because if they
regard scripture as works of people, then compromise is possible.
Regards,
Surfer
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Monotheism without Scripture |
13 Feb 2007 03:53:13 PM |
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On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 00:24:49 +1030, Surfer <surfer@no.spam.net> wrote:
- Refer: <q4f3t2d8i9jog0gmdvil1anr337br48vm9@4ax.com>
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 21:49:31 -0500, Padraic Brown
<elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 01:27:17 +1030, Surfer <surfer@no.spam.net> wrote:
It seems to me that scripture causes a lot of trouble. Many people who
regard scripture as "The Word of God" seem to end up worshiping an
imaginary bigot.
However I don't have a problem with the idea that we were created by
an infinite Creator. It seems beneficial to me to love this Creator
and doing so may help us love what it has created and hence help us
live in harmony with the world.
So I feel it could be beneficial to promote a new religion: namely
"Monotheism without Scripture".
It could be based on the following ideas.
1) Our existence is proof of an infinite Creator.
2) An infinite Creator does not need us to do anything, but if we love
our Creator, we will feel better for it.
3) Loving our Creator will also help us love what it has created and
help us live in harmony in the world.
I think you're on to something quite interesting...
By in large, you've just reinvented Deism. Deists hold that Creation
itself is the best revelation of God -- after all, it is God's own
handiwork. You mentioned later in the thread that scriptures land
people in trouble. Deism holds that scriptures are NOT God's revealed
word -- they are works of people. Sometimes there is good in them and
sometimes great evil.
You might want to take a look at it, and see how compatible your ideas
are with those of the great American Deists.
Thanks for that suggestion.
The Deist position sounds thoroughly liberal.
And completely and utterly unneccessary!
I think all liberal religions can peacefully coexist, because if they
regard scripture as works of people, then compromise is possible.
Regards,
Surfer
--
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Monotheism without Scripture |
13 Feb 2007 04:03:43 PM |
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On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 08:23:13 +1030, Michael Gray
<mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote:
On Wed, 14 Feb 2007 00:24:49 +1030, Surfer <surfer@no.spam.net> wrote:
- Refer: <q4f3t2d8i9jog0gmdvil1anr337br48vm9@4ax.com>
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 21:49:31 -0500, Padraic Brown
<elemtilas@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 01:27:17 +1030, Surfer <surfer@no.spam.net> wrote:
It seems to me that scripture causes a lot of trouble. Many people who
regard scripture as "The Word of God" seem to end up worshiping an
imaginary bigot.
However I don't have a problem with the idea that we were created by
an infinite Creator. It seems beneficial to me to love this Creator
and doing so may help us love what it has created and hence help us
live in harmony with the world.
So I feel it could be beneficial to promote a new religion: namely
"Monotheism without Scripture".
It could be based on the following ideas.
1) Our existence is proof of an infinite Creator.
2) An infinite Creator does not need us to do anything, but if we love
our Creator, we will feel better for it.
3) Loving our Creator will also help us love what it has created and
help us live in harmony in the world.
I think you're on to something quite interesting...
By in large, you've just reinvented Deism. Deists hold that Creation
itself is the best revelation of God -- after all, it is God's own
handiwork. You mentioned later in the thread that scriptures land
people in trouble. Deism holds that scriptures are NOT God's revealed
word -- they are works of people. Sometimes there is good in them and
sometimes great evil.
You might want to take a look at it, and see how compatible your ideas
are with those of the great American Deists.
Thanks for that suggestion.
The Deist position sounds thoroughly liberal.
And completely and utterly unneccessary!
It's the ultimate god of the gaps - for those who can't completely
eliminate the god-presumption they were taught in their formative
years.
I think all liberal religions can peacefully coexist, because if they
regard scripture as works of people, then compromise is possible.
It's up to them to make that compromise, not us. And they have to make
it for themselves - nobody can make them do it.
Western Europe learned to have the religions co-exist the hard way, at
huge cost, the 30 years war, the horrors of the reformation, etc. Even
the holocaust to show what man could do to fellow man in the name of
religion.
Apart from the Vatican which hasn't learned to live and let live and
still thinks it gets to determines everybody's conscience.
Regards,
Surfer
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Monotheism without Scripture |
12 Feb 2007 09:07:29 AM |
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On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 01:27:17 +1030, Surfer <surfer@no.spam.net> wrote:
It seems to me that scripture causes a lot of trouble. Many people who
regard scripture as "The Word of God" seem to end up worshiping an
imaginary bigot.
However I don't have a problem with the idea that we were created by
an infinite Creator. It seems beneficial to me to love this Creator
and doing so may help us love what it has created and hence help us
live in harmony with the world.
I have a problem with those who talk about a creator to those who
don't share that belief, or who let their belief override reality.
So I feel it could be beneficial to promote a new religion: namely
"Monotheism without Scripture".
It could be based on the following ideas.
1) Our existence is proof of an infinite Creator.
Failed logic 101, did you?
2) An infinite Creator does not need us to do anything, but if we love
our Creator, we will feel better for it.
Ditto.
3) Loving our Creator will also help us love what it has created and
help us live in harmony in the world.
What creator? The one you have yet to show is anything more than a
figment of your deluded imagination?
Regards,
Hardly.
Surfer
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| User: "Surfer" |
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| Title: Re: Monotheism without Scripture |
12 Feb 2007 03:02:48 PM |
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On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 10:07:29 -0500, Christopher A.Lee
<calee@optonline.net> wrote:
I have a problem with those who talk about a creator to those who
don't share that belief, or who let their belief override reality.
Ok, lets accept that only reality exists.
In that case, since I exist I have been created by reality.
So reality is a creator.
And since reality is infinite it is an infinite creator.
Do you have a problem believing in this?
Regards,
Surfer
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| User: "thomas p." |
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| Title: Re: Monotheism without Scripture |
14 Feb 2007 11:44:32 AM |
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On 12 Feb., 22:02, Surfer <sur...@no.spam.net> wrote:
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 10:07:29 -0500, Christopher A.Lee
<c...@optonline.net> wrote:
I have a problem with those who talk about a creator to those who
don't share that belief, or who let their belief override reality.
Ok, lets accept that only reality exists.
In that case, since I exist I have been created by reality.
So reality is a creator.
And since reality is infinite it is an infinite creator.
Do you have a problem believing in this?
Do you mean beyond the fact that it makes no sense at all? No, I have
no problem with it.
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: Monotheism without Scripture |
12 Feb 2007 03:18:56 PM |
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On Feb 12, 1:02 pm, Surfer <sur...@no.spam.net> wrote:
On Mon, 12 Feb 2007 10:07:29 -0500, Christopher A.Lee
<c...@optonline.net> wrote:
I have a problem with those who talk about a creator to those who
don't share that belief, or who let their belief override reality.
Ok, lets accept that only reality exists.
In that case, since I exist I have been created by reality.
So reality is a creator.
And since reality is infinite it is an infinite creator.
Do you have a problem believing in this?
What do you mean by "reality is infinite?" Infinitely what? Smelly?
Sexy? Ugly? Long? What?
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| User: "Surfer" |
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| Title: Re: Monotheism without Scripture |
12 Feb 2007 04:42:03 PM |
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On 12 Feb 2007 13:18:56 -0800, "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com>
wrote:
What do you mean by "reality is infinite?" Infinitely what? Smelly?
Sexy? Ugly? Long? What?
I'd say infinitely large, complex and powerful. It might also exist
for an infinite time.
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| User: "Neil Kelsey" |
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| Title: Re: Monotheism without Scripture |
12 Feb 2007 05:32:40 PM |
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On Feb 12, 2:42 pm, Surfer <sur...@no.spam.net> wrote:
On 12 Feb 2007 13:18:56 -0800, "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kel...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
What do you mean by "reality is infinite?" Infinitely what? Smelly?
Sexy? Ugly? Long? What?
I'd say infinitely large, complex and powerful. It might also exist
for an infinite time.
Those seem arbitrary to me. And how can reality be infinitely
powerful? Reality as it is isn't powerful enough to prevent 90% of the
human population from being delusional, and you're glibly suggesting
adding another deity into the mix so we can "get along in harmony?" I
appreciate your intent, but haven't you studied any history or
followed current events? Humanity is in turmoil over the multitude of
gods, each of whom if we all believed in just one (and only one) of
them then we would all get along, in harmony. But if not everyone
agrees, then the god's policy ranges from death on earth to eternal
torture in the afterlife. All you're doing is tossing another deity
into the mix for people to fight over. And you probably won't get
anyone to do that anyway, unless you have more charisma than just a
barely coherent post on the internet
What is your god's stance on disbelief? How would he punish
disbelievers? I have a vested interest in this answer.
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| User: "Surfer" |
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| Title: Re: Monotheism without Scripture |
13 Feb 2007 06:56:55 AM |
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On 12 Feb 2007 15:32:40 -0800, "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kelsey@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Feb 12, 2:42 pm, Surfer <sur...@no.spam.net> wrote:
On 12 Feb 2007 13:18:56 -0800, "Neil Kelsey" <neil_kel...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
What do you mean by "reality is infinite?" Infinitely what? Smelly?
Sexy? Ugly? Long? What?
I'd say infinitely large, complex and powerful. It might also exist
for an infinite time.
Those seem arbitrary to me.
It doesn't matter. If one or more aspects of reality are infinite,
then it would seem reasonable to say that reality is infinite.
And how can reality be infinitely powerful?
Not powerful in the sense that it controls things, but powerful in the
sense that its beyond our control. Eg we can't stop galaxies
colliding; we can't stop time; we can't change the laws of physics.
and you're glibly suggesting adding another deity into the mix so we can "get along in harmony?"
I am suggesting that we use the word Creator to refer to what has
REALLY brought us into existence. No deity is implied.
Scripture teaches that we were created by a supernatural god.
I say thats nonsense.
Humanity is in turmoil over the multitude of
gods, each of whom if we all believed in just one (and only one) of
them then we would all get along, in harmony.
I am suggesting we dispense with gods and love what ever it is that
REALLY brought us into existence.
But if not everyone agrees, then the god's policy ranges from death on earth to eternal
torture in the afterlife.
That is the case with imaginary gods described in scripture.
But there is no evidence that our infinite Creator has any such
policies.
All you're doing is tossing another deity
into the mix for people to fight over.
Without scripture there is nothing to fight about.
What is your god's stance on disbelief?
Without scripture, there is no stance on disbelief.
Hence no punishment.
I only offer the following ideas which seem to me, self evident.
Roughly speaking:
1) Our existence in an infinite universe suggests the existence of an
infinite Creator.
2) An infinite Creator does not need anything (so no worship or belief
is required by us) but if we love our Creator, we will feel better for
it.
3) Loving our Creator may help us love what it has created and
hence help us live in harmony in the world.
No worship, no prayers, no rituals are needed, unless one happens to
enjoy such things.
Cheers,
Surfer
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Monotheism without Scripture |
13 Feb 2007 08:29:22 AM |
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"Surfer" <surfer@no.spam.net> wrote in message
snip
I am suggesting that we use the word Creator to refer to what has
REALLY brought us into existence. No deity is implied.
You mean my biological parents?
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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| User: "Surfer" |
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| Title: Re: Monotheism without Scripture |
13 Feb 2007 10:47:28 AM |
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On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 09:29:22 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Surfer" <surfer@no.spam.net> wrote in message
snip
I am suggesting that we use the word Creator to refer to what has
REALLY brought us into existence. No deity is implied.
You mean my biological parents?
I mean all the processes that would be involved, including those that
brought your parents into existence, their parents into existence and
so on, right back to the emergence of life, the formation of the solar
system, the big bang and to whatever existed before that.
Plus there are the processes that currently keep us alive, such as
biological processes and quantum processes, which would seem to be a
continuation of all those before.
So by the word Creator, I roughly mean all these processes.
Cheers,
Surfer
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| User: "Robibnikoff" |
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| Title: Re: Monotheism without Scripture |
13 Feb 2007 02:43:31 PM |
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"Surfer" <surfer@no.spam.net> wrote in message
news:bkq3t21hh1mggn06agd5dra6vvo5lo1ecf@4ax.com...
On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 09:29:22 -0500, "Robibnikoff"
<witchypoo@broomstick.com> wrote:
"Surfer" <surfer@no.spam.net> wrote in message
snip
I am suggesting that we use the word Creator to refer to what has
REALLY brought us into existence. No deity is implied.
You mean my biological parents?
I mean all the processes that would be involved, including those that
brought your parents into existence, their parents into existence and
so on, right back to the emergence of life, the formation of the solar
system, the big bang and to whatever existed before that.
Plus there are the processes that currently keep us alive, such as
biological processes and quantum processes, which would seem to be a
continuation of all those before.
So by the word Creator, I roughly mean all these processes.
Whatever. That's not a "creator" as far as I'm concerned.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
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