| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jd" |
| Date: |
19 Aug 2003 06:07:55 PM |
| Object: |
Moore ignites new multicultural vision |
This will come as quite a shock to leftists everywhere. Over 1000
Orthodox Rabbis, as well as representatives from the black
community such as Alan Keyes and T.D. Jakes, voiced support along
with an estimated 10,000 folks who showed up at the Ten
Commandments Rally in Montgomery Alabama.... for Judge Roy Moore
and his stand on the Ten Commandments. Interestingly, 35
atheists also showed up to protest.
At any rate, leftists everywhere will only be making fools of
themselves as they try to portray God-fearin' American Christians
(especially Alabamians) as racists, or neo-nazis, white
supremists or something even worse.
Yeah, they may whine, moan, and sling vile accusations, mock etc.
.... but it's all a hoax on their part. Especially now that their
absolute hypocrisy has been revealed. Think of it... blacks, Jews
and whites standing together in unity. Wasn't their dream a
"multicultural" America? Yes, but it was a hoax. A hoax to
pander support from all the various minorities merely for the
purpose of enslaving them by encouraging "sin".
Perhaps Jews and Blacks from across the nation and portions of
Canada joining in with us Alabamians was just the thing needed to
reveal their devious plots to undermine Americas moral foundation
and their actual hatred for true multicultural unity (especially
the "One nation, under God" type of multicultural).
Honestly, I'm not noted for being a "multicultural" type guy as a
few here can attest. Have I changed? Of course not. If the
fruit's good, the tree is also.
"Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." - Jesus
A spokesman (Rabbi Yehuda Levin) for one of the two major
Rabbinical organizations which support Judge Moore, joined in an
Alabama talk radio show today and further explained how
conservative Jews have found themselves in a similar position as
that of conservative Christians WRT the leftists agenda for an
immoral America. He was the same Rabbi that went to Montgomery
(from New York) to show support for Judge Moore. He actually
made alot of sense. I even e-mailed him a thank-you note for
his efforts.
Here's the release which voices the support of over 1000 Jewish
Rabbis.... for Judge Moore's cause:
THE UNION OF ORTHODOX RABBIS
OF THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA
and
THE RABBINICAL ALLIANCE OF AMERICA
August 15, 2003 / for immediate release
CONTACT: RABBI YEHUDA LEVIN 718-469-6999
TWO MAJOR RABBINICAL GROUPS SUPPORT
"TEN COMMANDMENTS" JUDGE ROY MOORE
Two major Rabbinical organizations, representing over 1000
Orthodox Rabbis, today declared their support for Alabama Chief
Judge Roy Moore in his battle to keep the Ten Commandments on
display in the Supreme Court building in Montgomery, Alabama.
Lawyer groups, led by the ACLU, have demanded that Judge Moore
remove the display, citing church-state concerns; and Federal
Judge Myron Thompson has given Judge Moore a deadline of August
20 to remove the display. But Judge Moore is refusing to be
intimidated.
Rabbi Hirsch Ginsberg of the Union of Orthodox Rabbis said: "The
Ten Commandments are the basis of civilized society and the rule
of law. It is no accident that legal testimony begins with
swearing to tell the whole truth, while holding a Bible. Here, in
New York City, many courtrooms have a plaque on the wall, right
above the judge's head, proclaiming 'In G-D we trust'."
Rabbi Abraham Hecht of the Rabbinical Alliance added: "It's no
surprise that the ACLU, a radical left-wing organization of
ambulance-chasing rip-off artists, should object to the Ten
Commandments. The Biblical injunctions against lying, stealing,
and adultery must make them feel terribly uncomfortable."
Rabbi Yehuda Levin who is representing the two Rabbinical groups
in Montgomery, Alabama this week, commented on a nasty New York
Times editorial that referred to Judge Moore as a demagogue:
"This is the worst kind of savage yellow journalism. The New York
Times has lately been rocked by scandals, in which it has been
revealed that senior reporters and editorial staff have knowingly
fabricated stories and distorted the news. They have some nerve
criticizing a moral, intelligent, and courageous man like Chief
Judge Moore."
Rabbi Levin will hold a press conference on the steps of the
Alabama Statehouse in Montgomery on
Friday, August 15, 2003, at 10:00 a.m.
After the press conference, Rabbi Levin is to meet with Chief
Judge Moore to make a presentation to him on behalf of the Union
of Orthodox Rabbis and the Rabbinical Alliance.
http://www.jewsformorality.org/aaaw090.htm
-----------------EOF-----------------
"Police would not estimate the size of the crowd, which appeared
to be several thousand people, possibly as many as 10,000.
Falwell said Moore is right to defy Thompson's order if he
believes he is obeying God. "Civil disobedience is the right of
all men when we believe breaking man's law is needed to preserve
God's law," Falwell said.
Evelyn Bradley of Norwalk, California, said she made the trip
because "the Ten Commandments is the most precious and most
important thing in my life right now." "No judge has the right to
tell us we can't post them," said Bradley, 73.
After the rally hundreds of people walked several blocks to the
judicial building, where they lined up to view the monument
inside. Some debated with about 35 atheists holding a counter
protest across the street.
"Personally I believe in science and reason and the only way you
can have freedom of religion is to have separation of church and
state," said Todd Kinley, a research scientist from Huntsville
participating in the counter protest."
http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/08/16/ten.commandments.ap/index.html
-------------------EOF-------------------
Jewish Leaders Rally Around Chief Justice
Ten Commandments Fight Heads To U.S. Supreme Court
POSTED: 4:49 p.m. CDT August 15, 2003
BIRMINGHAM, Ala. -- The fight to keep a Ten Commandments monument
in the Alabama's Judicial Building is winning wider support as
religious leaders rallied with Chief Justice Roy Moore Friday.
"Moore appeared with orthodox Jewish rabbis in Montgomery who
support efforts to keep the monument in the state Supreme Court
building. "If our country does not return to the Biblical values
and standards on which it was founded, who knows what could
happen to us?" Rabbi Yehuda Levin said.
Also backing Moore's monument fight, nationally recognized Bishop
T.D. Jakes, who was in Birmingham Friday. "Well, I think that the
Ten Commandments transcends beliefs and theology and goes down to
core values and morality that every American should want to
embrace," Jakes said."
http://www.nbc13.com/news/2409426/detail.html
"Buses and vans from as far away as California brought Moore
supporters to Montgomery for an enthusiastic rally on a hot and
muggy morning. Evangelist Jerry Falwell and former presidential
candidate Dr. Alan Keyes were among a half-dozen speakers urging
the crowd to take back America from what Keyes described as the
"unruly courts."
"We stand here today in a great tradition," Keyes said. "Not as
our lying critics would have it in the tradition of those who
defied courts in order to oppress and destroy fellow human
beings, but those who stood against unjust laws in order to stand
for rights of all people. This is where we stand."
http://www.nbc13.com/news/2409426/detail.html
-------------------EOF-------------------
"We, therefore, the Representatives of the United States of
America, in General Congress, assembled, appealing to the Supreme
Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in
the name, and by authority of the good People of these Colonies,
solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and
of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are
Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all
political connection between them and the State of Great Britain,
is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and
Independent States, they have full power to levy War, conclude
Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all
other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do.
And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on
the Protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each
other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."
(Declaration of Independence)
"We, the people of the State of Alabama, in order to establish
justice, insure domestic tranquillity, and secure the blessings
of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, invoking the favor and
guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish the following
Constitution and form of government for the State of Alabama"
Constitution Of Alabama 1901
Jd
"Is not my word like as a fire? saith the Lord; and like a hammer
that breaketh the rock in pieces?" (Jeremiah 23:29)
.
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| User: "Peacenik" |
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| Title: Re: Moore ignites new multicultural vision |
20 Aug 2003 11:00:34 AM |
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"Jd" <jday123@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:94b5kvsovgut7rsfrotvun4glkfn6ij71j@4ax.com...
This will come as quite a shock to leftists everywhere. Over 1000
Orthodox Rabbis, as well as representatives from the black
community such as Alan Keyes and T.D. Jakes, voiced support along
with an estimated 10,000 folks who showed up at the Ten
Commandments Rally in Montgomery Alabama.... for Judge Roy Moore
and his stand on the Ten Commandments.
It's called a marraige of convenience. Christian Fundamentalist extremists,
who would like nothing better than to see Jews and blacks eliminated from
the face of the earth, will hide their true feeligns and unite with these
groups in order to gain legitimacy and political clout. They consider them
useful tools in order to gain power. Once their theocracy is established and
their power is consolidated, then they will turn on their former allies.
--
Chris
.
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: Moore ignites new multicultural vision |
19 Aug 2003 06:40:24 PM |
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In article <94b5kvsovgut7rsfrotvun4glkfn6ij71j@4ax.com> Jd <jday123@bellsouth.net> writes:
<This will come as quite a shock to leftists everywhere. Over 1000
<Orthodox Rabbis, as well as representatives from the black
<community such as Alan Keyes and T.D. Jakes, voiced support along
<with an estimated 10,000 folks who showed up at the Ten
<Commandments Rally in Montgomery Alabama.... for Judge Roy Moore
<and his stand on the Ten Commandments. Interestingly, 35
<atheists also showed up to protest.
<
<At any rate, leftists everywhere will only be making fools of
<themselves as they try to portray God-fearin' American Christians
<(especially Alabamians) as racists, or neo-nazis, white
<supremists or something even worse.
<
<Yeah, they may whine, moan, and sling vile accusations, mock etc.
<... but it's all a hoax on their part.
A hoax of your devising, since no one in the intense discussions
in this froup over the last two weeks has called Roy Moore a nazi.
No one here has called Roy Moore a racist. No one here has called Roy
Moore a white supremicist.
Hope this makes you feel better.
-- cary
.
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| User: "Ninure Saunders" |
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| Title: Re: Moore ignites new multicultural vision |
20 Aug 2003 08:33:52 AM |
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In article <bhuch8$gqf$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu>,
cary@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell) wrote:
-In article <94b5kvsovgut7rsfrotvun4glkfn6ij71j@4ax.com> Jd
<jday123@bellsouth.net> writes:
-<This will come as quite a shock to leftists everywhere. Over 1000
-<Orthodox Rabbis, as well as representatives from the black
-<community such as Alan Keyes and T.D. Jakes, voiced support along
-<with an estimated 10,000 folks who showed up at the Ten
-<Commandments Rally in Montgomery Alabama.... for Judge Roy Moore
-<and his stand on the Ten Commandments. Interestingly, 35
-<atheists also showed up to protest.
-<
-<At any rate, leftists everywhere will only be making fools of
-<themselves as they try to portray God-fearin' American Christians
-<(especially Alabamians) as racists, or neo-nazis, white
-<supremists or something even worse.
-<
-<Yeah, they may whine, moan, and sling vile accusations, mock etc.
-<... but it's all a hoax on their part.
-
-
-A hoax of your devising, since no one in the intense discussions
-in this froup over the last two weeks has called Roy Moore a nazi.
-No one here has called Roy Moore a racist. No one here has called Roy
-Moore a white supremicist.
-
-Hope this makes you feel better.
Well, Jd has apprently help to divert attention from real issues by
theowing up "strawmen".
I suppose Jesus would be considered a "leftist" as He is is recorded in
the Gospels as beong opposed to displays of "punlic piety", didn't have a
good word to say about it.
Now I wonder, of the supposed 10, 000 who showed up for this rally, how
many of them actually observed the 10 commandements?
-
-
-
-
--- cary
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
http://Rainbow-Christian.tk
The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk
My Online Diary
http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org
To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
.
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: Moore ignites new multicultural vision |
20 Aug 2003 10:54:41 AM |
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In article <RainbowChristiannohate-2008030845420001@h-68-164-11-28.chcgilgm.covad.net> (Ninure Saunders) writes:
<In article <bhuch8$gqf$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu>,
<cary@afone.as.arizona.edu (Cary Kittrell) wrote:
<
<-In article <94b5kvsovgut7rsfrotvun4glkfn6ij71j@4ax.com> Jd
<<jday123@bellsouth.net> writes:
<-<This will come as quite a shock to leftists everywhere. Over 1000
<-<Orthodox Rabbis, as well as representatives from the black
<-<community such as Alan Keyes and T.D. Jakes, voiced support along
<-<with an estimated 10,000 folks who showed up at the Ten
<-<Commandments Rally in Montgomery Alabama.... for Judge Roy Moore
<-<and his stand on the Ten Commandments. Interestingly, 35
<-<atheists also showed up to protest.
<-<
<-<At any rate, leftists everywhere will only be making fools of
<-<themselves as they try to portray God-fearin' American Christians
<-<(especially Alabamians) as racists, or neo-nazis, white
<-<supremists or something even worse.
<-<
<-<Yeah, they may whine, moan, and sling vile accusations, mock etc.
<-<... but it's all a hoax on their part.
<-
<-
<-A hoax of your devising, since no one in the intense discussions
<-in this froup over the last two weeks has called Roy Moore a nazi.
<-No one here has called Roy Moore a racist. No one here has called Roy
<-Moore a white supremicist.
<-
<-Hope this makes you feel better.
<
<Well, Jd has apprently help to divert attention from real issues by
<theowing up "strawmen".
<
<I suppose Jesus would be considered a "leftist" as He is is recorded in
<the Gospels as beong opposed to displays of "punlic piety", didn't have a
<good word to say about it.
<
<Now I wonder, of the supposed 10, 000 who showed up for this rally, how
<many of them actually observed the 10 commandements?
I wonder how many of the 10,000 who showed up for this rally showed
up for this rally? Organizers and spokesfolks inevitably overestimate
the numbers, no matter which side of whatever issues they happen
to be on.
-- cary
.
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: Moore ignites new multicultural vision |
20 Aug 2003 11:43:40 AM |
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In article <bi05k1$ick$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu> (Cary Kittrell) writes:
<In article <RainbowChristiannohate-2008030845420001@h-68-164-11-28.chcgilgm.covad.net> (Ninure Saunders) writes:
<<In article <bhuch8$gqf$1@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu>,
<< (Cary Kittrell) wrote:
<<
<<-In article <94b5kvsovgut7rsfrotvun4glkfn6ij71j@4ax.com> Jd
<<<jday123@bellsouth.net> writes:
<<-<This will come as quite a shock to leftists everywhere. Over 1000
<<-<Orthodox Rabbis, as well as representatives from the black
<<-<community such as Alan Keyes and T.D. Jakes, voiced support along
<<-<with an estimated 10,000 folks who showed up at the Ten
<<-<Commandments Rally in Montgomery Alabama....
{...}
<<
<<I suppose Jesus would be considered a "leftist" as He is is recorded in
<<the Gospels as beong opposed to displays of "punlic piety", didn't have a
<<good word to say about it.
<<
<<Now I wonder, of the supposed 10, 000 who showed up for this rally, how
<<many of them actually observed the 10 commandements?
<
<
<I wonder how many of the 10,000 who showed up for this rally showed
<up for this rally? Organizers and spokesfolks inevitably overestimate
<the numbers, no matter which side of whatever issues they happen
<to be on.
<
Replying to myself: an article in Sunday's _Advertiser_ says that:
The Rev. Rick Scarborough of Vision America, who organized the
rally, did not quibble with a crowd estimate of about 4,000 people.
Though organizers hoped for as many as 25,000, Scarborough...
Since JD claims that somewhere around 90% of us are Christians, that
would be very roughly one advocate for every 70,000 Christians.
Of course, if the estimates for atheist counter-demonstrators are
accurate -- 25 by one article, 40 by another -- the atheists did
even more poorly. Guess we're just not joiners...
-- cary
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| User: "Carol Lee Smith" |
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| Title: Re: Moore ignites new multicultural vision |
20 Aug 2003 09:16:09 AM |
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On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Ninure Saunders wrote:
Well, Jd has apprently help to divert attention from real issues by
theowing up "strawmen".
He perhaps is competing with Dana Raffaniello for the strawman title of
the year.
Now I wonder, of the supposed 10, 000 who showed up for this rally, how
many of them actually observed the 10 commandements?
One of the Alabama newspapers I read said that 2,000 rally participants
visited the monument in the rotunda.
Is that venerating a graven image?
This is interesting. If it is claimed 10,000 people attended the rally,
why do you suppose the other alleged 8,000 didn't want to visit the holy
rock?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Willie James, chief of the Supreme Court Police, said about 500 people
visited the monument before the rally started at 10 a.m., but that number
swelled to about 2,000 after the festivities concluded about 12:30 p.m.
http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/NEWS/StoryLocalsecurity17w.htm
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| User: "johac" |
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| Title: Re: Moore ignites new multicultural vision |
20 Aug 2003 12:35:40 AM |
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In article <94b5kvsovgut7rsfrotvun4glkfn6ij71j@4ax.com>,
Jd <jday123@bellsouth.net> wrote:
This will come as quite a shock to leftists everywhere. Over 1000
Orthodox Rabbis, as well as representatives from the black
community such as Alan Keyes and T.D. Jakes, voiced support along
with an estimated 10,000 folks who showed up at the Ten
Commandments Rally in Montgomery Alabama.... for Judge Roy Moore
and his stand on the Ten Commandments. Interestingly, 35
atheists also showed up to protest.
It's not a numbers game. Display of overt religious symbols in a
public building clearly violates the establishment clause of the First
Amendment. The Federals Courts found it so, and the Supreme Court will
uphold the decision. Moore can take his sculpture home and make a bird
bath out of it for his back yard.
--
John Hachmann, aa #1782
"In those parts of the world where learning and science has prevailed,
miracles ceased; but in those parts that are barbarous and ignorant,
miracles are still in vogue." -Letters of Ethan Allen to Thomas Jefferson
.
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| User: "CB" |
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| Title: The Alabama federal court is in violation of the Establishment Clause |
21 Aug 2003 08:07:32 AM |
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"johac" <jhachm@remove.ixpres.com> wrote in message
news:jhachm-CDD73B.22283020082003@central.giganews.com...
In article <f947kv05tdll4i05169dnbl8fqlkqsthcv@4ax.com>,
Jd <jday123@bellsouth.net> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <94b5kvsovgut7rsfrotvun4glkfn6ij71j@4ax.com>,
Jd <jday123@bellsouth.net> wrote:
This will come as quite a shock to leftists everywhere. Over 1000
Orthodox Rabbis, as well as representatives from the black
community such as Alan Keyes and T.D. Jakes, voiced support along
with an estimated 10,000 folks who showed up at the Ten
Commandments Rally in Montgomery Alabama.... for Judge Roy Moore
and his stand on the Ten Commandments. Interestingly, 35
atheists also showed up to protest.
It's not a numbers game. Display of overt religious symbols in a
public building clearly violates the establishment clause of the First
Amendment. The Federals Courts found it so, and the Supreme Court will
uphold the decision. Moore can take his sculpture home and make a bird
bath out of it for his back yard.
Says who? You?
Some guys named Jefferson, Madison, and a few others said it first.
Oh, and a few judges, superior to Moore agreed too.
--
Judge Moore's motives are to uphold Alabama's state Constitution, nothing
else. The Ten Commandments monument is a testament to the state Constitution
and to state laws Justice Moore is sworn to uphold. The Liberal/ACLU's dogma
has the intention to break The Ten Commandments and the Godhead of man.
The Alabama federal court is in violation of the Establishment Clause:
"The concept of neutrality itself is ``a coat of many colors,''\19\ and
three standards that could be stated in objective fashion emerged as
tests of Establishment Clause validity. The first two standards were
part of the same formulation. ``The test may be stated as follows: what
are the purpose and the primary effect of the enactment? If either is
the advancement or inhibition of religion then the enactment exceeds the
scope of legislative power as circumscribed by the Constitution. That is
to say that to withstand the strictures of the Establishment Clause
there must be a secular legislative purpose and a primary effect that
neither advances nor inhibits religion.''\20\ The third test is whether
the governmental program results in ``an excessive government
entanglement with religion. The test is inescapably one of degree . . .
[T]he questions are whether the involvement is excessive, and whether it
is a continuing one calling for official and continuing surveillance
leading to an impermissible degree of entanglement."
http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/senate/constitution/amdt1.html
The Ten Commandments has no purpose to effect advancement of religion. The
fact that Alabama's Preamble to its Constitution recognizes God has been a
institution since the Preamble was written. There is no Progressive movement
which is required for Establishment Clause validity! On the other hand there
is proof of systematic progression of Government and the ACLU pushing God
out of American government.
CB
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| User: "Dr. Smartass" |
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| Title: Re: The Alabama federal court is in violation of the Establishment Clause |
21 Aug 2003 10:24:59 AM |
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"CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote in
news:bi2g2q$kq3$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com:
On the other hand there is proof of systematic progression
of Government and the ACLU pushing God out of American government.
As it should be.
There's that pesky First Amendment, again.
--
Dr. Smartass
BAAWA Knight of Heckling -- a.a. #1939
"And the knowledge that they fear
Is a weapon to be used against them."
--Rush, "The Weapon"
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| User: "jwk" |
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| Title: Re: The Alabama federal court is in violation of the Establishment Clause |
21 Aug 2003 01:59:30 PM |
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"CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote in message news:<bi2g2q$kq3$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...
"johac" <jhachm@remove.ixpres.com> wrote in message
news:jhachm-CDD73B.22283020082003@central.giganews.com...
In article <f947kv05tdll4i05169dnbl8fqlkqsthcv@4ax.com>,
Jd <jday123@bellsouth.net> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <94b5kvsovgut7rsfrotvun4glkfn6ij71j@4ax.com>,
Jd <jday123@bellsouth.net> wrote:
This will come as quite a shock to leftists everywhere. Over 1000
Orthodox Rabbis, as well as representatives from the black
community such as Alan Keyes and T.D. Jakes, voiced support along
with an estimated 10,000 folks who showed up at the Ten
Commandments Rally in Montgomery Alabama.... for Judge Roy Moore
and his stand on the Ten Commandments. Interestingly, 35
atheists also showed up to protest.
It's not a numbers game. Display of overt religious symbols in a
public building clearly violates the establishment clause of the First
Amendment. The Federals Courts found it so, and the Supreme Court will
uphold the decision. Moore can take his sculpture home and make a bird
bath out of it for his back yard.
Says who? You?
Some guys named Jefferson, Madison, and a few others said it first.
Oh, and a few judges, superior to Moore agreed too.
--
Judge Moore's motives are to uphold Alabama's state Constitution, nothing
else. The Ten Commandments monument is a testament to the state Constitution
and to state laws Justice Moore is sworn to uphold. The Liberal/ACLU's dogma
has the intention to break The Ten Commandments and the Godhead of man.
The Alabama federal court is in violation of the Establishment Clause:
"The concept of neutrality itself is ``a coat of many colors,''\19\ and
three standards that could be stated in objective fashion emerged as
tests of Establishment Clause validity. The first two standards were
part of the same formulation. ``The test may be stated as follows: what
are the purpose and the primary effect of the enactment? If either is
the advancement or inhibition of religion then the enactment exceeds the
scope of legislative power as circumscribed by the Constitution. That is
to say that to withstand the strictures of the Establishment Clause
there must be a secular legislative purpose and a primary effect that
neither advances nor inhibits religion.''\20\ The third test is whether
the governmental program results in ``an excessive government
entanglement with religion. The test is inescapably one of degree . . .
[T]he questions are whether the involvement is excessive, and whether it
is a continuing one calling for official and continuing surveillance
leading to an impermissible degree of entanglement."
http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/senate/constitution/amdt1.html
The Ten Commandments has no purpose to effect advancement of religion. The
fact that Alabama's Preamble to its Constitution recognizes God has been a
institution since the Preamble was written. There is no Progressive movement
which is required for Establishment Clause validity! On the other hand there
is proof of systematic progression of Government and the ACLU pushing God
out of American government.
CB
That's because "god" isn't supposed to be part of the government. Stupid.
jwk
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| User: "Lawrence Seib" |
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| Title: Re: The Alabama federal court is in violation of the Establishment Clause |
21 Aug 2003 05:21:26 PM |
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"CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote in message news:<bi2g2q$kq3$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...
"johac" <jhachm@remove.ixpres.com> wrote in message
news:jhachm-CDD73B.22283020082003@central.giganews.com...
In article <f947kv05tdll4i05169dnbl8fqlkqsthcv@4ax.com>,
Jd <jday123@bellsouth.net> wrote:
johac wrote:
In article <94b5kvsovgut7rsfrotvun4glkfn6ij71j@4ax.com>,
Jd <jday123@bellsouth.net> wrote:
This will come as quite a shock to leftists everywhere. Over 1000
Orthodox Rabbis, as well as representatives from the black
community such as Alan Keyes and T.D. Jakes, voiced support along
with an estimated 10,000 folks who showed up at the Ten
Commandments Rally in Montgomery Alabama.... for Judge Roy Moore
and his stand on the Ten Commandments. Interestingly, 35
atheists also showed up to protest.
It's not a numbers game. Display of overt religious symbols in a
public building clearly violates the establishment clause of the First
Amendment. The Federals Courts found it so, and the Supreme Court will
uphold the decision. Moore can take his sculpture home and make a bird
bath out of it for his back yard.
Says who? You?
Some guys named Jefferson, Madison, and a few others said it first.
Oh, and a few judges, superior to Moore agreed too.
--
Judge Moore's motives are to uphold Alabama's state Constitution, nothing
else. The Ten Commandments monument is a testament to the state Constitution
and to state laws Justice Moore is sworn to uphold. The Liberal/ACLU's dogma
has the intention to break The Ten Commandments and the Godhead of man.
You know, all they ever do is put in the scaled down ten commandments.
If they put the whole thing down, people would relize that our laws
are often the opposite of the ten commandments, for instance:
"I ,am a jealous god, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the
children unto the third and fourth generation…"
How may times have we put kids in jail for their parents crimes?
Thats right never.
Larry
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| User: "Dave" |
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| Title: Re: The Alabama federal court is in violation of the Establishment Clause |
22 Aug 2003 09:14:24 AM |
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(Lawrence Seib) wrote in message news:<75ab6396.0308211421.552a0f8c@posting.google.com>...
"CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote in message;
"johac" <jhachm@remove.ixpres.com> wrote in message;
Jd <jday123@bellsouth.net> wrote:
johac wrote:
The Federal Courts found it so, and the Supreme Court will
uphold the decision. Moore can take his sculpture home and make
a bird bath out of it for his back yard.
Says who? You?
Some guys named Jefferson, Madison, and a few others said it first.
Oh, and a few judges, superior to Moore agreed too.
Judge Moore's motives are to uphold Alabama's state Constitution, nothing
else. The Ten Commandments monument is a testament to the state Constitution
and to state laws Justice Moore is sworn to uphold. The Liberal/ACLU's dogma
has the intention to break The Ten Commandments and the Godhead of man.
You know, all they ever do is put in the scaled down ten commandments.
If they put the whole thing down, people would relize that our laws
are often the opposite of the ten commandments, for instance:
"I am a jealous god, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the
children unto the third and fourth generation?"
Well obviously this has been an oversight on our part. Henceforth any
murderer who gets multiple life sentences should have those extra
sentences passed down to his children and grandchildren. Plus any
adult who does not honor their father and mother should should be
subject to arrest. Also any couple getting a divorce should be
investigated by the police for possible adultery or the coveting of a
neighbor's wife. We can then fine the man and stone the neighbor's
wife and give the wife to the man's brother and really help to put
this Christian nation back on track. God bless us every one. We can
also throw more people in jail for cursing. Anyone making a carved
image of anything is surely a criminal and should be dealt with
severely. Astronomers and Geologists should be jailed. Anyone caught
working on weekends should be thrown in jail (who really knows if the
Sabbath is Saturday or Sunday? We should all go to jail for forgetting
and we dare not risk God's wrath by guessing). Obviously any
non-Judeo-Christian should be jailed for breaking the most important
rule, rule #1.
I. You shall have no other gods before Me.
II. You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of
anything that is in heaven above, or that in the earth beneath, or
that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them
nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God. am a jealous God, visiting
the iniquity of the father upon the children to the third and fourth
generations.
III. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the
LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes HIS name in vain.
IV. You shall remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. For it is the
seal of My Kingship, My creation and My re-creation of mankind. Six
days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the
Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor
your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female
servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.
For in six days the LORD made the the heavens and the earth, the sea,
and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the
LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
V. You shall honor your father and your mother, that your days may be
long upon the land which the LORD your God is giving you.
VI. You shall not murder.
VII. You shall not commit adultery.
VIII. You shall not steal.
IX. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
X. You shall not covet your neighbor's house, you shall not covet your
neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his
ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.
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| User: "Dave" |
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| Title: Re: The Alabama federal court is in violation of the Establishment Clause |
22 Aug 2003 05:19:31 PM |
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"CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote in message news:<bi2g2q$kq3$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...
[...]
Judge Moore's motives are to uphold Alabama's state Constitution,
nothing else. The Ten Commandments monument is a testament to the
state Constitution and to state laws Justice Moore is sworn to
uphold. [...]
Then the Alabama State Constitution is long overdue for being thrown
out. Perhaps this exercise will help to accomplish that task. Judge
Roy can then run for Alabama Governor, which indeed must be his real
motivation for all of the grandstanding for the "700 Club" crowd.
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| User: "Jd" |
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| Title: Re: The Alabama federal court is in violation of the Establishment Clause |
22 Aug 2003 09:49:57 PM |
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Dave wrote:
"CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote in message news:<bi2g2q$kq3$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...
[...]
Judge Moore's motives are to uphold Alabama's state Constitution,
nothing else. The Ten Commandments monument is a testament to the
state Constitution and to state laws Justice Moore is sworn to
uphold. [...]
Then the Alabama State Constitution is long overdue for being thrown
out. Perhaps this exercise will help to accomplish that task. Judge
Roy can then run for Alabama Governor, which indeed must be his real
motivation for all of the grandstanding for the "700 Club" crowd.
How 'bout "President Moore"?
Jd
"Is not my word like as a fire? saith the Lord; and like a hammer
that breaketh the rock in pieces?" (Jeremiah 23:29)
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| User: "Roger" |
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| Title: Re: The Alabama federal court is in violation of the Establishment Clause |
23 Aug 2003 01:35:39 AM |
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"Jd" <jday123@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:t7ldkvkjneqahiuabhfivpdv182engqks1@4ax.com...
Dave wrote:
"CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote in message
news:<bi2g2q$kq3$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com>...
[...]
Judge Moore's motives are to uphold Alabama's state Constitution,
nothing else. The Ten Commandments monument is a testament to the
state Constitution and to state laws Justice Moore is sworn to
uphold. [...]
Then the Alabama State Constitution is long overdue for being thrown
out. Perhaps this exercise will help to accomplish that task. Judge
Roy can then run for Alabama Governor, which indeed must be his real
motivation for all of the grandstanding for the "700 Club" crowd.
How 'bout "President Moore"?
Heeeee heeeeeeeeee heeeee heee!!!
Funny.
Jd
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: The Alabama federal court is in violation of the Establishment Clause |
21 Aug 2003 10:36:07 AM |
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"CB" <CB@prayforme.com> wrote:
Judge Moore's motives are to uphold Alabama's state Constitution,
Alabama's State Constitution apparently says that he should not
disobey court orders from superior courts.
The Ten Commandments monument is a testament to the state Constitution
and to state laws Justice Moore is sworn to uphold.
No.
The Liberal/ACLU's dogma has the intention to break The Ten Commandments
Judge Moore made a graven image. He broke the Ten Commandments.
and the Godhead of man.
No. It's the religious right that attacks Secular Humanism as
claiming the Godhead of man. The ACLU has never taken a position on
the Godhead of man, to my knowledge.
The Alabama federal court is in violation of the Establishment Clause
The USSC did not take the case, so this is de jure false.
The Ten Commandments has no purpose to effect advancement of religion.
"Thou shalt have no other Gods before me."
"Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy"
Yeah, right.
The
fact that Alabama's Preamble to its Constitution recognizes God has been a
institution since the Preamble was written.
Which merely means that the Preamble is also unconstitutional.
There is no Progressive movement which is required for Establishment Clause validity!
The Progressive movement lasted from around 1900 until the mid-1920s,
and did not address the validity of the Establishment Clause. The
Establishment Clause was valid from the time that the First Amendment
was ratified, which was long before the Progressive movement, and it
is still valid today, long after the Progressive movement.
http://www.jmu.edu/madison/teach/burson/prog.htm
Maybe you were thinking about "bowel movement" since all you spew out
is *****.
On the other hand there
is proof of systematic progression of Government and the ACLU pushing God
out of American government.
Actually, Madison and Jefferson did that, so the ACLU is merely trying
to keep it out.
lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org
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| User: "John P. Boatwright" |
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| Title: Re: The Alabama federal court is in violation of the Establishment Clause |
23 Aug 2003 06:22:13 AM |
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CB wrote:
The Alabama federal court is in violation of the Establishment Clause:
They should vote out all the crummy judges.
They'll put statues up proclaiming evolution is the
source of it all... put a cross in urine and claim
it's art... and then tell you, you can't saying God
made his creation... but instead you have to say
NOTHING made everything, when NOTHING never said
anything.
They're liars.
God is the source of his creation. If the judge wants
to acknowledge God and got voted in with the voters
openly knowing that he would proclaim God being right,
that he would judge with the 10 commandments near him,
then they should allow him to do as he said he would
when he was voted in.
And if they remove him and remove God's words, then
they can justify their actions to God when they see him.
God made it all, Jesus died for our sins.
Proof God described the planet density profile
BEFORE science did:
http://home.teleport.com/~salad/4god/density.htm
(see the 2 graphs, obviously God was right in Genesis)
Mirror site at: http://For-God.net
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| User: "Lawrence Seib" |
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| Title: Re: The Alabama federal court is in violation of the Establishment Clause |
25 Aug 2003 04:43:49 PM |
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"John P. Boatwright" <name@For-God.net> wrote in message news:<3F474E5A.66D8@For-God.net>...
CB wrote:
The Alabama federal court is in violation of the Establishment Clause:
They should vote out all the crummy judges.
They'll put statues up proclaiming evolution is the
source of it all... put a cross in urine and claim
it's art... and then tell you, you can't saying God
made his creation...
Calm down John. The things that you describe are not
set up in U.S. courts or in other official buildings,
the are in museums, where BTW, you can also find
quite beautiful pictures of Christ and God, in
poses more toward your tastes.
but instead you have to say
NOTHING made everything, when NOTHING never said
anything.
This is what you hear but not what is said. Humans
evolved from other animals. We do not know where
or how life began or how the universe came into being.
We do know that the universe was once much denser since
it is currently expanding.
They're liars.
The quintessential argument. Bravo!
God is the source of his creation. If the judge wants
to acknowledge God and got voted in with the voters
openly knowing that he would proclaim God being right,
that he would judge with the 10 commandments near him,
then they should allow him to do as he said he would
when he was voted in.
Well you see john, in a democracy, everyone could vote that
people with certain hair, eye or perhaps skin
color should die, and if they vote that way, it could
happen. The founding fathers thought about this and
decided that each individual has certain rights that
should not be violated not matter what the people
voted for.
This is why they created the bill of rights, and included
in the rights freedom of religion. We are free to believe
what we want no matter how many people in Alabama vote
otherwise.
By placing the commandments in the buildings lobby,
Mr. Moore, not judge anymore I here, sent the message
taht these are the states beleifs. This is not correct,
because the constitution of the US states that we are
not to establish an institution of religion, and this
constitution supercedes the states.
Larry
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| User: "John P. Boatwright" |
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| Title: Re: The Alabama federal court is in violation of the Establishment Clause |
29 Aug 2003 05:08:19 AM |
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Lawrence Seib wrote:
"John P. Boatwright" <name@For-God.net> wrote in message news:<3F474E5A.66D8@For-God.net>...
CB wrote:
The Alabama federal court is in violation of the Establishment Clause:
They should vote out all the crummy judges.
They'll put statues up proclaiming evolution is the
source of it all... put a cross in urine and claim
it's art... and then tell you, you can't saying God
made his creation...
Calm down John. The things that you describe are not
set up in U.S. courts or in other official buildings,
There are no statues of Darwin?
Really?
There are no text books claiming Darwin to be right
and ignoring God having been right?
the are in museums, where BTW, you can also find
quite beautiful pictures of Christ and God, in
poses more toward your tastes.
God is God, he is not a painting.
but instead you have to say
NOTHING made everything, when NOTHING never said
anything.
This is what you hear but not what is said. Humans
evolved from other animals.
God made whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted.
We do not know where
or how life began or how the universe came into being.
Ya we do, God made it all.
We do know that the universe was once much denser since
it is currently expanding.
We know that God made it however he wanted and
that he's darn good at making whatever he wants.
They're liars.
The quintessential argument. Bravo!
Ya ya ya...
God is the source of his creation. If the judge wants
to acknowledge God and got voted in with the voters
openly knowing that he would proclaim God being right,
that he would judge with the 10 commandments near him,
then they should allow him to do as he said he would
when he was voted in.
Well you see john, in a democracy, everyone could vote that
people with certain hair, eye or perhaps skin
color should die, and if they vote that way, it could
happen. The founding fathers thought about this and
decided that each individual has certain rights that
should not be violated not matter what the people
voted for.
So you agree that since all those people voted in Moore
and he upheld their choice for him to say the 10 commandments
are right, that "so be it", he can say he thinks they're right.
This is why they created the bill of rights, and included
in the rights freedom of religion. We are free to believe
what we want no matter how many people in Alabama vote
otherwise.
I don't see any atheists chained to the 10 commandments.
By placing the commandments in the buildings lobby,
Mr. Moore, not judge anymore I here, sent the message
taht these are the states beleifs.
No, it's the majority of the people there that elected
Moore, and Moore himself, and about 80% of the population
of the United States of America... they all tend to back
him up and say "fine, looks good to me!".
This is not correct,
because the constitution of the US states that we are
not to establish an institution of religion, and this
constitution supercedes the states.
We are the United States of America, and we tend to
believe God, and tend to acknowledge that God is judge
over all, and that's where WE got our rights in the
first place... no one person can take away those rights
since they're God given in the first place.
You take away God from the government, you're left with
this:
* Tigers eat bunnies, it's natural, the bunny is food.
* Men kill other men, it's natural, the other men are
weak, or in the wrong place at the wrong time, they
can't be held accountable, they're doing natural stuff,
it's just evolution in action, deal with it.
There's no difference between the two above when you
remove God from the law, since men become animals
with no God given rights... do as you want, it's all
natural and no one should complain.
Regardless, all the crummy judges should be voted out,
all the government officials... vote 'em out and put
Moore back in. The guy was doing his job, they weren't,
and God will judge it all.
Best would be that they didn't get all concerned over
the stuff, most of which they already had in their laws.
The only couple lines they got miffed about, mentioned
God, the one that gives the laws in the first place and
the one that will judge us all.
God made it all, Jesus died for our sins.
Proof God described the planet density profile
BEFORE science did:
http://home.teleport.com/~salad/4god/density.htm
(see the 2 graphs, obviously God was right in Genesis)
Mirror site at: http://For-God.net
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| User: "Chris Krolczyk" |
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| Title: Re: The Alabama federal court is in violation of the Establishment Clause |
29 Aug 2003 07:31:33 PM |
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"John P. Boatwright" <name@For-God.net> wrote in message news:<3F4F2602.17C5@For-God.net>...
Lawrence Seib wrote:
"John P. Boatwright" <name@For-God.net> wrote in message news:<3F474E5A.66D8@For-God.net>...
They'll put statues up proclaiming evolution is the
source of it all... put a cross in urine and claim
it's art... and then tell you, you can't saying God
made his creation...
Calm down John. The things that you describe are not
set up in U.S. courts or in other official buildings,
There are no statues of Darwin?
Really?
Yeah, there are. What's your point, John?
There are no text books claiming Darwin to be right
and ignoring God having been right?
"Right" in what, Bloaty?
It's rather amazing that you can keep this act of
yours up for as long as you have, John. It's almost
as if you, Ed Conrad and Jabriol belong to a *club* or
something.
the are in museums, where BTW, you can also find
quite beautiful pictures of Christ and God, in
poses more toward your tastes.
God is God, he is not a painting.
Then is the Alabama Ten Commandments monument merely
a "sculpture", Bloaty? Fair is fair, after all.
but instead you have to say
NOTHING made everything, when NOTHING never said
anything.
This is what you hear but not what is said. Humans
evolved from other animals.
God made whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted.
We've read it all before, John.
Please act like a mentally challenged
parrot on your own time, okay?
-Chris Krolczyk
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| User: "Lawrence Seib" |
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| Title: Re: The Alabama federal court is in violation of the Establishment Clause |
02 Sep 2003 05:22:22 PM |
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"John P. Boatwright" <name@For-God.net> wrote in message news:<3F4F2602.17C5@For-God.net>...
Lawrence Seib wrote:
We do not know where
or how life began or how the universe came into being.
Ya we do, God made it all.
I said that we do not know how life began. You
answered that God made it. That tells me nothing about
how God did it if he did. So even if God did create life,
we still do not know how life began.
We do know that the universe was once much denser since
it is currently expanding.
We know that God made it however he wanted and
that he's darn good at making whatever he wants.
See the above paragraph. Saying that God did this
or that give us no usefull information, whether or not
it is true.
Well you see john, in a democracy, everyone could vote that
people with certain hair, eye or perhaps skin
color should die, and if they vote that way, it could
happen. The founding fathers thought about this and
decided that each individual has certain rights that
should not be violated not matter what the people
voted for.
So you agree that since all those people voted in Moore
and he upheld their choice for him to say the 10 commandments
are right, that "so be it", he can say he thinks they're right.
I am saying the opposite. I am saying that the founding fathers
were afraid that the majority could impinge on others rights,
and thus protected us from the tyranny of the majority with the
bill of rights.
This is why they created the bill of rights, and included
in the rights freedom of religion. We are free to believe
what we want no matter how many people in Alabama vote
otherwise.
I don't see any atheists chained to the 10 commandments.
By placing the commandments in the buildings lobby,
Mr. Moore, not judge anymore I here, sent the message
taht these are the states beleifs.
No, it's the majority of the people there that elected
Moore, and Moore himself, and about 80% of the population
of the United States of America... they all tend to back
him up and say "fine, looks good to me!".
Sorry, not good enough. You are free to whorship in your home
and in your church, and virtually anywhere you want.
Leave it out of the building I am paying taxes for.
You take away God from the government, you're left with
this:
* Tigers eat bunnies, it's natural, the bunny is food.
* Men kill other men, it's natural, the other men are
weak, or in the wrong place at the wrong time, they
can't be held accountable, they're doing natural stuff,
it's just evolution in action, deal with it.
So the only reason you care about others is because God tells
you not to kill, that is sad. As an atheist, I care about
others becasue I know they have feelings just like me.
Thus I try to treat them as I would like to be treated.
Larry.
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| User: "Carol Lee Smith" |
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| Title: Re: The Alabama federal court is in violation of the Establishment Clause |
02 Sep 2003 09:55:42 PM |
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On 2 Sep 2003, Lawrence Seib wrote:
Sorry, not good enough. You are free to whorship
I love it, I love it, I love it!!!
Your creative spelling is so appropriate!!
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| User: "Gray Shockley" |
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| Title: Re: The Alabama federal court is in violation of the Establishment Clause |
02 Sep 2003 10:48:23 PM |
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On Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:22:22 -0500, Lawrence Seib wrote
(in message <75ab6396.0309021422.1da87f6a@posting.google.com>):
So the only reason you care about others is because God tells
you not to kill, that is sad.
It really is. When I was living up in Virginia - near the district - I was
helping a guy online (this was about 1989 or so) and, all of a sudden, the
guy asked me if I were not a practising Christian.
When I asked why he asked, he told me that every single person that had
helped him since he had been in the area was not a practising Christian.
Further, he stated, that he had been looking for a church and that the people
departing the three or four that he had visited almost ran him down in the
parking lot.
As an atheist, I care about
others becasue I know they have feelings just like me.
That's called either bieng "human" or the Golden Rule.
Thus I try to treat them as I would like to be treated.
Yup, although I'm not as kind as thou. I always try and give people a break
but - if they insist on it - I'll go for the jugglar.
Army story: After my first month as First Sergeant with the 5th Infantry
(mech) down at Fort Polk, Louisiana, my commander called me into his office,
saying he needed to apologize to me. I could not figure - for the life of me
- what for.
[note: I had actually been selected by the outgoing 1SG and the cmdr had
"gone along".]
So, totally puzzled, I walked into the CO's office. He waited until I had sat
down and told me: "I really didn't think you'd make it as 1SG because you
were too nice".
At which point, we both broke up laughing.
[In my first month as 1SG, I had kicked out of the Army nine PFC's and SP4's
(drugs) and an E5 (mental) and a SFC (E-7) for lots of different reasons, all
of which boiled down to him not taking care of his soldiers.]
But it was as I told the Commander: "I /was/ being nice. They asked - by
their behavior - to be kicked out of the Army and I, politely, granted their
requests. [And with a Less Than Honorable discharge, we delivered them to a
gate of Fort Polk - which one decided by whomever was driving them (and Ft
Polk had a couple of gates that very few folks even knew existed).]
So - end of story - I have always been willing to extend courtesy as far as I
can but it /is/ impolite not to give someone who has been asking for
somethingthat something.
Larry.
Gray
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: The Alabama federal court is in violation of the Establishment Clause |
29 Aug 2003 06:08:30 AM |
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"John P. Boatwright" <name@For-God.net> wrote:
Lawrence Seib wrote:
"John P. Boatwright" <name@For-God.net> wrote in message news:<3F474E5A.66D8@For-God.net>...
CB wrote:
The Alabama federal court is in violation of the Establishment Clause:
They should vote out all the crummy judges.
They'll put statues up proclaiming evolution is the
source of it all... put a cross in urine and claim
it's art... and then tell you, you can't saying God
made his creation...
Calm down John. The things that you describe are not
set up in U.S. courts or in other official buildings,
There are no statues of Darwin?
I'm sure there is one somewhere, but I've never seen one. Why should
it matter? Darwin is not a religious figure, but a historical one.
There are no text books claiming Darwin to be right
and ignoring God having been right?
Darwin WAS right, at least in part. That is a fact of science
regardless of one's religious belief. There is nothing BUT religious
belief as to "God having been right", since it takes religious belief
in order to even conjure up a God to have been "right".
the are in museums, where BTW, you can also find
quite beautiful pictures of Christ and God, in
poses more toward your tastes.
God is God, he is not a painting.
Only to the religious of a particular (family of) religion.
but instead you have to say
NOTHING made everything, when NOTHING never said
anything.
This is what you hear but not what is said. Humans
evolved from other animals.
God made whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted.
I'm sure that an omnipotent God could have made us all a fraction of a
second ago with all of our memories suggesting that we were born years
ago, that there are books such as the Bible that tell stories about
Him (which of course aren't true if he created us a fraction of a
second ago), and that there was such a man as Darwin.
He could also have made His creation abide by natural laws that over a
few billion years (but merely "6 days" when God is feeling
metaphorical) could have evolved His wondrous Kingdom of animals, and
His Kingdom of plants, and His Kingdom of (whatever the other ones are
these days). Do you deny the power of your God that He could have
done either of these two things?
We do not know where
or how life began or how the universe came into being.
Ya we do, God made it all.
"We" don't, because not all of "us" believe in Him. But even saying
that He made it all fits both of the above scenarios, both of which
fit all known observations (but of course only one of the two
scenarios fits all known observations in a useful way for making
predictions about what will happen tomorrow)
We do know that the universe was once much denser since
it is currently expanding.
We know that God made it however he wanted and
that he's darn good at making whatever he wants.
See above. This is a totally useless claim, since it denies the
efficacy of using natural laws to predict what will happen 5 minutes
from now. After all, God in His omnipotence could reverse gravity in
a few seconds and cause you to crash head-first into the ceiling. he
is capable of doing such things. But relying on gravity working for
the next several minutes allows you the useful result of being
confident that you can walk across the floor safely.
But if you want to deny the usefulness of science and experience and
bow your fate to the whimsies of the Omnipotent, that's fine with the
rest of us.
Just remember that your Omnipotent God is by His nature not bound to
follow the words of a book, no matter how much people worship it.
Well you see john, in a democracy, everyone could vote that
people with certain hair, eye or perhaps skin
color should die, and if they vote that way, it could
happen. The founding fathers thought about this and
decided that each individual has certain rights that
should not be violated not matter what the people
voted for.
So you agree that since all those people voted in Moore
and he upheld their choice for him to say the 10 commandments
are right, that "so be it", he can say he thinks they're right.
Only as a private citizen. Once he puts on his Chief Justice hat, he
is Government, and must abide by the rules that "we the people" set
down to limit the Government from doing even what a majority want it
to do.
This is why they created the bill of rights, and included
in the rights freedom of religion. We are free to believe
what we want no matter how many people in Alabama vote
otherwise.
I don't see any atheists chained to the 10 commandments.
Why would that be relevant?
By placing the commandments in the buildings lobby,
Mr. Moore, not judge anymore I here, sent the message
taht these are the states beleifs.
No, it's the majority of the people there that elected
Moore, and Moore himself, and about 80% of the population
of the United States of America... they all tend to back
him up and say "fine, looks good to me!".
But when it comes to the Constitution, the majority, even an 80%
majority, cannot override it, unless they do so via Constitutional
amendment. And believe me: no 80% of the people will approve a
Constitutional amendment allowing statues of the ten commandments to
be put in courthouses. Most of us respect our Constitution as much as
we respect the Bible.
This is not correct,
because the constitution of the US states that we are
not to establish an institution of religion, and this
constitution supercedes the states.
We are the United States of America, and we tend to
believe God,
But not all of us do and our forefathers set up this country to
protect those that don't believe what everyone else believes from the
tyranny of the majority.
You take away God from the government, you're left with
this:
* Tigers eat bunnies, it's natural, the bunny is food.
* Men kill other men, it's natural, the other men are
weak, or in the wrong place at the wrong time, they
can't be held accountable, they're doing natural stuff,
it's just evolution in action, deal with it.
Except of course they CAN be held accountable - to other men (and
women), who are quite capable of "dealing with it".
There's no difference between the two above when you
remove God from the law, since men become animals
with no God given rights... do as you want, it's all
natural and no one should complain.
Without God, man decides what "should" be. Most atheists are
perfectly capable of creating a moral code which requires no
accountability to God in order to function.
Regardless, all the crummy judges should be voted out,
all the government officials... vote 'em out and put
Moore back in. The guy was doing his job,
His job is to uphold the Constitution. His job is NOT to do what a
majority want him to do.
they weren't,
But they were.
and God will judge it all.
I'm sure He will, and His judgement will have nothing to do with
statues of Bible verses.
Best would be that they didn't get all concerned over
the stuff, most of which they already had in their laws.
The only couple lines they got miffed about, mentioned
God, the one that gives the laws in the first place and
the one that will judge us all.
In this country, "We the people" give the laws in the first place, and
the second, and the third.
But of course Hammarubi gave several of the laws found in the
commandments long before Moses did.
God made it all, Jesus died for our sins.
Your belief in this means something to you, but nothing to anyone
else. No one cares what you believe, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT MAKES
THIS COUNTRY GREAT.
lojbab
--
lojbab
Bob LeChevalier, Founder, The Logical Language Group
(Opinions are my own; I do not speak for the organization.)
Artificial language Loglan/Lojban: http://www.lojban.org
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The Alabama federal court is in violation of the Establishment Clause |
29 Aug 2003 11:19:28 AM |
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On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:08:19 GMT, "John P. Boatwright" <name@For-God.net> wrote:
Calm down John. The things that you describe are not
set up in U.S. courts or in other official buildings,
There are no statues of Darwin?
Darwin formulated a THEORY.
It's not immutable belief in an unprovable concept
There are no text books claiming Darwin to be right
and ignoring God having been right?
How do you claim that "god is right" when the tome you're using to
support what "he said" isn't provable?
d from other animals.
God made whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted.
Who says?
Ya we do, God made it all.
Who says that?
We do know that the universe was once much denser since
it is currently expanding.
We know that God made it however he wanted and
that he's darn good at making whatever he wants.
That's a BELIEF
Unprovable.
I don't see any atheists chained to the 10 commandments.
I don't see any of the "10 commandments" having ever been proven to
come into existence as described in a compilation of historical stories.
By placing the commandments in the buildings lobby,
Mr. Moore, not judge anymore I here, sent the message
taht these are the states beleifs.
No, it's the majority of the people there that elected
Moore, and Moore himself, and about 80% of the population
of the United States of America... they all tend to back
him up and say "fine, looks good to me!".
So, you're theory is, that if a neo-nazi were "elected" by a majority, he could then
institute any nazi/rightwing/fascist order he believed to be true?
This is not correct,
because the constitution of the US states that we are
not to establish an institution of religion, and this
constitution supercedes the states.
We are the United States of America, and we tend to
believe God, and tend to acknowledge that God is judge
over all, and that's where WE got our rights in the
first place... no one person can take away those rights
since they're God given in the first place.
By "god", are you referring to the Judaic model of god evolved from
prehistoric paganism.....complete with centuries of stories and myths, which is now
embedded in biblical theology?
If so, how about the millions who don't subscribe to that particular god?
You take away God from the government, you're left with
this:
You take god out of government and we have what we have now. Between 1620 and
1750, the government was, by all definition, a theocracy in most of the settlements.
There's no difference between the two above when you
remove God from the law, since men become animals
with no God given rights... do as you want, it's all
natural and no one should complain.
Thomas Paine (a significant FOUNDER) argued exactly the opposite.
Regardless, all the crummy judges should be voted out,
all the government officials... vote 'em out and put
Moore back in. The guy was doing his job, they weren't,
and God will judge it all.
Moore was pushing HIS religious beliefs under authority of the state.
***** him.
"The commandments carry no internal evidence of
divinity with them; they contain some good moral
precetps, such as any man qualified to be a
law-giver, or a legislator, cold produce himself,
whithout any recourse to supernatural intervention"
Thomas Paine; FOUNDER
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| User: "Roger" |
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| Title: Re: The Alabama federal court is in violation of the Establishment Clause |
29 Aug 2003 02:15:04 PM |
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<rightwing@buttmaster.com> wrote in message
news:2otukvogq3csvql484qj2plms4lt2vgcq9@4ax.com...
On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:08:19 GMT, "John P. Boatwright" <name@For-God.net>
wrote:
Calm down John. The things that you describe are not
set up in U.S. courts or in other official buildings,
There are no statues of Darwin?
Darwin formulated a THEORY.
It's not immutable belief in an unprovable concept
More importantly, it's not based on faith. That's the definition of
religion. There is overwhelming evidence for evolution. There is no evidence
of a god. Therefore, all belief systems concerning god are faith, and
therefore religion.
There are no text books claiming Darwin to be right
and ignoring God having been right?
How do you claim that "god is right" when the tome you're using to
support what "he said" isn't provable?
d from other animals.
God made whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted.
Who says?
Ya we do, God made it all.
Who says that?
We do know that the universe was once much denser since
it is currently expanding.
We know that God made it however he wanted and
that he's darn good at making whatever he wants.
That's a BELIEF
Unprovable.
I don't see any atheists chained to the 10 commandments.
I don't see any of the "10 commandments" having ever been proven to
come into existence as described in a compilation of historical stories.
By placing the commandments in the buildings lobby,
Mr. Moore, not judge anymore I here, sent the message
taht these are the states beleifs.
No, it's the majority of the people there that elected
Moore, and Moore himself, and about 80% of the population
of the United States of America... they all tend to back
him up and say "fine, looks good to me!".
So, you're theory is, that if a neo-nazi were "elected" by a majority, he
could then
institute any nazi/rightwing/fascist order he believed to be true?
This is not correct,
because the constitution of the US states that we are
not to establish an institution of religion, and this
constitution supercedes the states.
We are the United States of America, and we tend to
believe God, and tend to acknowledge that God is judge
over all, and that's where WE got our rights in the
first place... no one person can take away those rights
since they're God given in the first place.
By "god", are you referring to the Judaic model of god evolved from
prehistoric paganism.....complete with centuries of stories and myths,
which is now
embedded in biblical theology?
If so, how about the millions who don't subscribe to that particular god?
You take away God from the government, you're lef | | | | | | | |
